The terrorists have stated their demands:
A draft of the GOP leadership’s proposal to lift the debt ceiling through December 2014 is circulating and it’s the equivalent of a letter to Santa for the party’s base.
The bill, obtained by the National Review, tacks on items including a one-year delay of Obamacare; tax reform in the image of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI); approval of the Keystone pipeline; expanded offshore drilling and other pro-oil and coal energy reforms; increases in military spending coupled with deeper cuts to domestic programs; repealing a fund in the financial regulatory reform bill; means testing for Medicare; repealing the Obamacare prevention and public health fund and medical malpractice reform.
You have two weeks, or the economy gets it. And if you are wondering how these guys got so crazy, just remember they start out crazy:
Kentucky’s chapter of College Republicans have dug up one of the weakest “gotcha” moments in recent political memory.
The group posted cell phone video of Democratic Senate candidate Alison Lundergan Grimes being picked up by her husband at what appears to be Lexington’s Blue Grass Airport.
The video shows Grimes, who’s serving her first term as Kentucky’s secretary of state, climb into the back seat of the couple’s black Chevy Suburban while her husband wheels around her suitcase and places it into the cargo area.
Grimes then immediately pulls out her phone as her husband drives away, with no other passengers in the SUV.
“We think you’ll agree – this. is. weird,” the College Republicans said in a press release.
While it’s possible that a state official who’s running for national elected office might have some business to catch up on after a flight, the College Republicans think it reveals something more essential about Grimes’ character.
“(Grimes) thinks she’s so important that she needs to ride around town in the back seat of a black suburban … driven by personal chauffeur, her husband,” the group said.
Yes, it is very weird for someone to be picked up by their spouse at the airport. These people are clinical.
schrodinger's cat
But my friend who is an Independent but voted for Obama twice, thinks that Obama is disappointing and both sides are awful.
Mary G
Hoping that Obama says “no deal” instead of trading Keystone, for example.
flukebucket
Hell, there is no shortage of jokes in that one description
Zifnab
BREAKING! MUST CREDIT
DRUDGECOLLEGE REPUBLICANSscav
I love Carney’s comment: “The only thing I didn’t see was a birther bill attached to it,”
Do KY Repubbies walk home from airports or do their Lear jets land in their personal driveways with themselves at the throttle?
chopper
ransom is right. the only thing that garbage needs is for the type to be made up of letters cut-out from magazines.
Roger Moore
The Republicans might as well ask for everything they’ve ever wanted. One crazy demand or a million, they still aren’t going to get it through the legislative process. This way they don’t disappoint any of their constituencies by leaving them out.
chopper
and no repealing of gun laws? no constitutional amendment banning abortion? these guys are getting soft.
chopper
@Roger Moore:
funniest thing is, all this shit they’re demanding is stuff they just can’t get done through the regular democratic process. so they figure they’ll try to get it by threatening to destroy the world’s economy.
all they need is a secret base under a volcano and a white cat to pet while making their demands.
dmsilev
@scav: That was great. Mockery is really the only suitable response.
I did read somewhere that they were at least thinking about adding an abortion clause to the ransom demands as well.
Roger Moore
@chopper:
I think the average Bond villain is more competent and in touch with reality than the Republican caucus. Not to mention kinder to animals.
dmsilev
@chopper:
No, they’re not nearly competent enough at planning to be James Bond villains. They’re more like Scooby Doo villains.
MattF
Once upon a time, this was regarded as a stupid and cruel way of attracting attention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Natlamp73.jpg
But.. that was then.
ETA: I’m still not sure how I got the wrong link in there, but now it’s the right one
c u n d gulag
Ah, yes, but if it was one of THEIR women politicians, then it would be an effective cost-saving and family-values-and-family-friendly way of getting home!!!
They are all clinically f*cking insane.
They see sh*t that ain’t there.
And they can’t see sh*t right in front of their noses.
And if you try to point that sh*t out, they claim YOU’RE the one seeing sh*t.
That there’s no sh*t there.
And no matter how many people you bring in to tell them that yes, that sh*t’s there, and no matter how many photo’s you show them that sh*t there, right in front of their noses, you will NEVER convince any of them, that there’s actually some sh*t right there in front of their noses.
If that ain’t clinically insane, then I don’t know what the f*ck clinically insane is!
BGinCHI
Obviously her husband just doesn’t let her do blow in the front seat anymore. The razor blade totally fucks up the dashboard.
Bill E Pilgrim
Complete off topic but topical for the week: after a little reflection, this one goes out to Louis C.K., as an interpretation of his message to the youth of the world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJGPv66Pc24
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
They’ve said that the thing that leaked isn’t final, so there’s still plenty of time to add more ridiculous demands. I wonder when they’re going to add a pony to the list.
Seanly
Do you know who did like to ride in the front seat? Mussolini, that’s who! I’m not so sure about Hitler…
Is this a multiple choice or does Obama have to cave on everything?
Might as well just give them the stupid Keystone MCIX pipeline – the planet’s doomed anyway. And let’s go ahead & drill off the entire east coast. I think the oil lobby would’ve already opened those areas for drilling if they found any oil. Case in point – ANWR was a big political we must drill here thing for a bit, but even during the heyday the oil companies weren’t too keen on it due to the cost to develop & get a small amount of oil. Anyway, we might as well finish transforming the planet into Giedi Prime.
As far the rest of it, didn’t both McCain & Romney lose to Obama? Why implement their terrible policies?
But if Obama grows a pair, I say he tells the Repubs to go f*ck themselves and mints the trillion dollar coin. It’ll be a win for the Republicans in that they can keep the 27% fired up for another couple of years.
schrodinger's cat
BTW John were you a College Republican?
dmsilev
@Roger Moore:
That’s not quite right. Sources tell me they’re going to add the “Rendering Cute Ponies Into Glue And Soup Stock Act of 2013” to the list.
Linnaeus
What’s troubling is that after this clear demonstration of where GOP priorities lie, who the Republicans value and who they don’t, there will be plenty of folks like a couple of friends of mine who will go right on voting Republican
Jennifer
What I find so amusing is how they demand EVERY. FUCKING. THING. they’ve ever wanted in return for…a 3 month hiatus from their ratfucking.
I wish Obama would just say, “not just no, but HELL no. Here’s what I’m offering: nothing. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I’ll leave it up to you guys to explain to your corporate sponsors why you blew up the world economy because you couldn’t get your way on everything you’ve ever wanted, and we can just wait and see how much they’ll be putting up to fund your next campaign. Ball’s in your court, motherfuckers.”
And I wish he would include the cursing, too.
Edit: Oops, my bad. I guess that’s a 15 month hiatus on ratfucking. Or it would be, if you could trust a bunch of ratfuckers to keep their word.
Yatsuno
@chopper: Give them time. Give them time.
BGinCHI
@Jennifer: My name is not Barack Obama but I endorse this idea.
jl
Looks like the pitch on ACA is that because the GOP base did not nominate their dream candidate in the 2012 election, they could not properly ‘litigate’ the issue and deserve a do-over, the election really doesn’t count, or they should get what they want on everything, or something:
DeMint Says GOP ‘Did Not Litigate The Obamacare Issue’ In 2012, Blames Romney
” As Jim DeMint sees it, Mitt Romney precluded Republicans from truly campaigning against the Affordable Care Act in last year’s election.
“Because of Romney and Romneycare, we did not litigate the Obamacare issue,” the Heritage Foundation president told Bloomberg Businessweek’s Joshua Green in a story published Thursday. ”
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/demint-says-gop-did-not-litigate-the-obamacare-issue-in-2012-blames-romney
I think they are going to fold, maybe after getting some symbolic BS concessions on one or two issues.
The showdown over the CR has turned into a farce already. Cruz’ stunt was laughable and absurd, and even our failed corporate media experiment couldn’t do anything to fix it up.
Edit: My understanding is that House GOP is going to hold weekly crying binges on the CR, and then vote to extend it for week or two. They will do something like this for the debt limit. It will be stressful, but I think we will muddle through.
I apologize to Cole for not stressing myself out over it!
bemused
They have vivid imaginations. Too bad they are incapable of using that trait in a positive fashion.
Amir Khalid
This is why I follow your American politics. Not a week goes by without the Republican party plumbing new depths in the opposite of seriousness and sanity.
NickM
Wow – pretty stupid bargaining. If they asked just to delay Obamacare, they’d at least have the argument that Obama blew things up over his pet legislation — not that they’d be right, but at least they’d be framing an argument. But by throwing in the kitchen sink like that, they’re muddying the message, or transforming it to “unless we get everything we’ve ever wanted in the world, we’re blowing up the world economy.” Tactically stupid, but I guess that’s what happens when you never have to talk to anyone outside of your little crazy bubble.
Rosalita
Clearly, she should be in the kitchen, barefoot, etc.
dmsilev
@Jennifer: An alternative approach would be to treat the GOP like a bunch of toddlers. Offer them a blankie and ask if they need their diapers changed. Oh, and nap time is coming up.
Roger Moore
@Jennifer:
I think the comparison to a Christmas list is apt. They’re just piling on everything they can think of in the hopes that they’ll get something. Let’s just hope it’s coal in their stocking.
Alex
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVHKnrFCUAAE9VO.png
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJue-vRrPfA
The DNC has received the ransom note and phone call and are publishing it.
I’m kind of disappointed. They had to have known something like this was coming, but the youtube video is a bit meh. The ransom note is ok though.
dmsilev
@Amir Khalid: Glad we could oblige…
Maybe CSPAN should switch to a pay-per-view model. Might help with the deficit.
IowaOldLady
If Obama gives even a little on this, maybe negotiating for something reasonable, all is lost because they’ll just do it again. It’s like giving into a tantrum. You can’t.
jl
@NickM: I agree. And it will produce some more disaffected GOP voters who might go independent or switch. I mean, they are simply asking to get everything they campaigned on during he election, and they lost the election.
Maybe the Keystone Pipeline is an exception, due to Obama’s equivocation on it. But the rest of the stuff, is what was debated during the election.
And what argument to they have? DeMented’s argument? That is weak. The GOP will come off as just sore losers who are ready to blow up the place because the US public did not agree with them in the last election.
The Dangerman
@jl:
Lemons and Lemonade, but seriously, he doesn’t remember those “precious few” commercials about Obamacare? Really?!
I reiterate my prediction from yesterday; a clean CR gets done, no shutdown this time, but we will be battling Debt Limit well into November, if not beyond. They are fucking all in and can’t fold until they absolutely, positively have no choice.
jl
@NickM: And because of their loud and incessant disinformation and scare campaign on the ACA, that silly demand will be very prominent in the news. And it would be anyway, because who is going to get excited over malpractice insurance reform and some of the other wonky junk on the lest. Basically it is saying
“Your plan is worse the HITLER, so I am going to blow up the place unless you delay it a few days!”
The public will be mad, but they’ll also be laughing (edit, bitterly and grimly).
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
It’s like the Election Night Special.
ira-NY
Obama’s response should be a good horse laugh and a head shake.
Hal
@schrodinger’s cat:
Funny. I just read that type of comment in a NYT story on Obama’s approval rating. Some independent who said he has friends who have to get two jobs because of the health care law. Doesn’t blame the employers cutting hours back, just Obama.
jl
@Hal: There is very little evidence that employers are cutting hours in anticipation of Obamacare. Employment reports are coming in weaker than expected, probably due to sequester.
Dean Baker has covered the issue in some of recent Beat the Press blog posts.
Suffern ACE
@jl: so for the next 3 years, we are going to keep the government open on a week to week basis. And maybe every other week it will close.
scav
@Hal: Should we remind them that real unique ‘Merikans have three jobs?
jl
@Suffern ACE: Hey, it might be a good compromise. A week of parasitic big government dishing out bucks to the inept and lazy losers and takers like us. A week of free market Nirvana.
Green Eggs and Ham. We will try it and maybe we will like it.
/snark tag here.
Turgidson
@IowaOldLady:
He appears to be thinking the same way this time. But we’ll see how he feels when we get within a few days of the brink. I think he’ll hold firm this time, but not 100% sure.
Yatsuno
@The Dangerman:
The debt limit hits October 18th. This has to get done by then or things go boom. We’d be lucky if the whole country hasn’t gone Mad Max by then, since Grandma will get neither her Social Security check or Medicare.
Not to mention I go jobless and don’t get paid. And I can’t claim unemployment until that has been in effect for three weeks.
Cacti
The only correct response to the new list of extortion demands:
“Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My answer is this: Nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.”
Roger Moore
@Yatsuno:
If the government shuts down, who is going to pay your unemployment?
dmsilev
@Cacti: Obama Thug! Chicago Style Politics! Uncivil!
jl
@Yatsuno: Yeah, I’m not stressed now, but I might be stressed when the time comes. I am lucky to be in a job that is pretty much prefunded in various ways, but that is just bank money, little electrons sitting in computer files.
Maybe my place will set a program to convert worthless fiat money into gold, ammo and potable water.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So whose fingerprints do you think will be on the next knife in Obama’s back?
eemom
I’m tired of living in a country where people vote for outrageously fucked up assholes who pull outrageously fucked up shit.
That’s all I got.
Feebog
Obama should reply; as long as we are going to bargin, I demand repeal of the law that requires a debt ceiling.
jl
From what I’ve heard from Obama so far, I think he is starting with a good argument that will be convincing to the public: the debt limit is about paying bills that Congress has already rung up. He will negotiate on issues involving bills that have not already been rung up, but not on what the country already owes.
I hope he keeps it up. After he softens up the public with that, he can start talking about the GOP trying to get its way on issues that lost it the last election. The worthless media will accuse Obama of being political, but if he has built his case, most of the public won’t care about pundit BS.
Yatsuno
@Feebog: Get a lift of the sequester in there as well. Why should they get everything they want here?
? Martin
@The Dangerman:
Oct 18 is the absolutely, positively no choice date. We actually hit the debt limit in May. We’ve been on emergency measures since then – basically shifting assets and various accounting trickery. 2 years ago there were all kinds of reporting done during this period. This year none. I guess everyone figures we can wait until the last possible second before discussion how fucked we are.
jl
@Yatsuno: Why didn’t the GOP demand a 100 percent sequester of the entire federal budget? They’re losing their touch.
Phil Perspective
@Jennifer: I prefer the Don Corleone approach. Maybe Yurtle the Turtle wakes up with a horse’s head in his bed, or better yet “Tailgunner” Ted’s.
? Martin
And someone needs to explain to the GOP how to take a hostage. Extending the debt limit for 1 year in exchange for a 1 year delay in Obamacare isn’t going to get the Dems to pay up, because in a year they’ll demand the same thing again, and the year after that…
balconesfault
I don’t see the College Republicans mocking Grimes as being clinical … as much as being sophomoric and immature, and unawares of such things as how distracting it can be to drive while the person sitting in the front passenger seat is on a prolonged conference call.
But actually being there to video her getting into her car? Now that’s clinical …
YellowJournalism
Seemed reasonable until they asked for that giant bowl of only-brown M&M’s.
Linda Featheringill
On the positive side, the internet tells me that Social Security funds will continue to be sent out and VA disability money will be paid as usual. Those two items are important in this household.
I really don’t think that the govt is going to default on its debts. The Fed can just buy up a bunch of debt, freeing funds to pay other people off. This makes more sense if you realize that I think the Fed is not limited to using real money.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Feebog: Besides being comletely fucking stupid, it strikes this NAL as pretty blatantly unconstitutional
balconesfault
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There are almost 20 counties in West by god Virginia where the percentage of those without health insurance coverage exceeds 20%. Manchin must not like his constituents very much …
Yatsuno
@Linda Featheringill:
For the budget impasse yes. When the debt limits hits, all bets are off.
Davis X. Machina
@jl: The GDP growth rate will asymptotically approach infinity, as Federal expenditure asymptotically approaches zero. Then, as Federal expenditure asymptotically approaches zero, the need for any taxes disappears. At this point, growth, which was already approaching infinity, doubles.
GDP growth at infinity *2.
If that doesn’t win elections, nothing will.
It’s easy, I can show you how it works on the back of a napkin.
karen
So when do they add the mandatory resignation of President Obama to their list? And the instant banning of the Democratic party? Oh and the making only White Christians citizens? Hey, as long as they’re doing their wet dream list, wouldn’t they do all of it?
jl
@? Martin: Their approach is so over the top, I have to believe that is is show for the base. That is why I am not stressing too much, yet.
I had the same feeling when Bohener strode out and loudly and firmly announced his demands for a repeal of the ACA for the CR. He did it with his best Johnny Bones, cheap two-bit hood, bravado. About as convincing for something actually happening as a cat jumping up on a table and typing up a ransom demand at a keyboard.
I get the same feel from this.
Anyway, if things go south, I get to the family outpost in AK, and live off the livestock for awhile, if they will take me in.
Davis X. Machina
@balconesfault:
Why not — they’ll vote for him regardless.
Tribalism trumps the hedonic calculus every time.
geg6
@dmsilev:
I read that, too. But I read somewhere (TPM, maybe?) that Boehner “talked” them out of it. I find that a bit hard to believe in that it doesn’t seem to me that they have listened to a single word Orange Man has had to say up until now and it stretches all credibility to think they’d suddenly decide to.
Mnemosyne
This is almost as “scandalous” as the time Sherrod Brown was caught kissing a reporter, who turned out to have a side gig as Brown’s wife.
scav
I suppose their wish lists to Santa must include death threats to Rudolph and the elves. Stands to reason.
David Hunt
@dmsilev:
I like that comparison, but it only holds up if they were trying to make everyone think that the Capitol was haunted by the ghost of Huey Long so that *mumble mumble* Profit! Actually I think that the only context in which this ultimatum make sense is if it’s delivered from behind the controls of a giant rampaging robot.
They’ve gone past Bond-Villain Evil to Comicbook Villain Evil. I’d be tempted to say that they’ve progressed to Dickens Villain Evil, but I don’t know his works well enough to draw the proper analogy.
jl
@karen: And Biden too. Then we have president Boehner, right? The GOP will roll that out as a ‘concession’ next week and scream about Obama not compromising when he turns it down.
Buffalopundit
Everyone knows the back seat is for communists.
? Martin
@Linda Featheringill:
Past Oct 1, yes. Starting Oct 19, no. On Oct 19 we are out of money to pay all of those things, assuming Obama adheres to the debt limit. Social Security is a debt owed to you. We won’t have the money to pay all of our debt that comes due that day. Who doesn’t get paid is unclear.
No, they can’t because the Fed doesn’t actually clear the debt, it just buys it from various banks. Basically the Fed is offering to take a loss on those loans for the benefit of the US government, but we still owe the money to the Fed.
The only real solution here is for Obama to defy Congress and order Lew to keep issuing debt above the limit and then deal with the whole matter during impeachment hearings.
jl
What will be funny, is if the GOP House keeps up its plan for weekly votes on the CR, and keeps passing extensions after the US has defaulted and then doesn’t understand what the problem is.
I will look forward to reporters trying to explain it tot he House teabaggers, and what the manufactured outrage against Obama will be on Fox News.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Roger Moore: also Bond villains don’t reward failure by promotion like the GOP does
John O
Given that someone out here said the President has no choice but to cave, that he’ll “be impeached” if he lets the default happen, what choice really does he have but to cave again? I honestly want to know.
I’m prepared for a default. But how can it be avoided without Presidential concessions?
Thoughtcrime
Image of the actual ransom note:
http://tinyurl.com/pzsemve
geg6
@Linda Featheringill:
Not during a debt limit showdown. No checks for nobody.
Jebediah, the Righteous Boot of God
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
President should just do a Li’l Georgie-style signing statement indicating that due to it’s obvious unconstooshnalness, the debt limit will be ignored.
jl
@? Martin: We will pick and chose what to pay ,and see how the financial markets react, and adjust accordingly.
When different types of ‘US dollars’ break par around the world, it will be an interesting. Nice free banking experiment for economists!
Edit: but it is true, if the cash flows go wonky, then maybe nobody gets paid for awhile.
IowaOldLady
@John O: They’re dying to impeach him. More useless, non-governing fun!
Frankly, if it’s going to happen, I think he has to let it. Otherwise every president from here on out will face this kind of ransom demand.
? Martin
I should add, Obama could start selling off southern states to raise money. Alabama has a GDP of $165B per year, and are a tax burden on the nation. Selling it would raise some quick cash and reduced the deficit in one move. Maybe Canada would like a nice gulf coast state to winter at.
Citizen_X
Some good news: Wendy Davis is running for Governor.
geg6
@? Martin:
I will sign onto that idea!
@Citizen_X:
Awesome!
dmsilev
@YellowJournalism:
You do know the story behind that, right? It was a way of quickly telling whether a given venue had read all the fine print in the band’s contract, and if not it meant that the road crew had to very carefully look at things like load-bearing capacity of floors and stands and so forth. It wasn’t being difficult for the sake of being difficult.
jl
The first trick I guess would not be declaring default, that would be stupid,. Probably selective announcements of suspensions (“we will pay you, someday, and we will get back to you on the dates asap”) and keep as many critical payments going as possible. And hope the cash flows are friendly.
? Martin
@jl: If consideration is given to the market, then they need to pay off the treasuries first. That basically means fucking over Social Security. Obama will make an emergency appeal to SCOTUS to invalidate the debt limit, and if that fails he’ll just break the law. He’s not going to let the US burn over a bunch of assholes.
John O
@IowaOldLady:
Oh, I understand that. They couldn’t beat him fair and square, so they’ll impeach him first chance they get.
But that doesn’t solve the debt crisis.
jl
@? Martin: If it does look like the House GOP will try to take us over the brink,. I will start reading what the Fed can do to help out. I remember reading up on it for the first crisis, but was so arcane, I forget most of it now.
schrodinger's cat
@? Martin: Why not Mexico?
schrodinger's cat
@David Hunt: I am sure GOP lubs thems some debtors prisons and child labor!
Chyron HR
@Citizen_X:
But if she’s busy Governoring, who will help Tony Stark fix his electric chest thing?
? Martin
@schrodinger’s cat: Canada has money, and might want Alabama. Even Mexico won’t want Alabama. They’ve got plenty of hot, rainy gulf real estate now.
Xantar
So hold on a second:
You mean to tell me that asking for the most extreme thing that’s never going to happen is not a good negotiating tactic? That would almost seem to imply that Obama asking for single-payer first when trying to reform health care would not have worked…
BarbCat
@Hal: Saw that. Couldn’t believe the gray lady let it slip through.
Mr. BarbCat picks me up from the airport and I always get in the back seat for the ride home, as does he if our roles are reversed. Why? Because we load the back seat with our puppeh who is bursting to welcome ANYONE who wants to welcome him. Jeezuz, these people.
debbie
They gotta get their stuff now. The well will soon be dry at JPMorgan.
Belafon
@? Martin: Sell the southern parts of Arizona and New Mexico. Just tell anyone complaining that we’re doing this to create a buffer between Mexico and the rest of the US.
scav
@? Martin: Tricky bit might be getting them to purchase the real estate as is, with all the movables as a package deal. They’re rumoured to be kind-hearted and might not bring out the stripey tent.
fuckwit
I notice as their actual power gets less and less, their bluster and screaming gets louder and louder.
Every day, every second, that people start having better lives due to ACA, the Rethugs get weaker.
They’re practically shrieking “I’m MEEEELLLLTIIINGG! I’M MEEEELLLTTIIIING!!”
I have a skin tag on the edge of my eyelid, in among my eyelashes. I need to get it removed. I’ve been terrified to have it burned/cut/frozen off, because what if anything goes wrong? I have no insurance, so I’d be paying the $200 or o out of pocket, not a terribly bad fee, but… What if it needs a biopsy, how much does that cost? What if it’s actually a carcinoma? What if it gets infected, or doesn’t heal properly? What if there’s a screwup and damages my eyes? Well, on Oct 1st I’m signing up for an Obamacare plan and I’m gonna get my ass into the opthalmologist’s office and have this done. My stress level, my terror level, will go down dramatically. And I’ll remember why.
JPL
Politico is reporting House Republican leaders are considering a drastic change to their strategy and might postpone their vote on lifting debt ceiling for a few days or a week, according to multiple senior GOP sources.
find you own link.. It always makes me feel so dirty to link to them.
The Dangerman
@Yatsuno:
The DL might hit 10/18, but they can juggle things for weeks. There isn’t a hard deadline like with the CR.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
at least they didn’t ask for ponies or unicorns.
jon
I’m still trying to figure out the energy self-sufficiency that comes from letting a Canadian company pump oily stuff across our country to our ports to be exported to other places. It’s kind of like saying “I’m underemployed and deep in debt, but my neighbor has a new boat! Everything’s great!”
jon
@The Dangerman: Tell it to the people who will increase the interest rates for our borrowing. This might be the only thing that can increase interests rates in our austerity-hampered economy, so they’ll do it.
dmsilev
@The Dangerman: No, we’ve been in the ‘juggle things around’ phase for the last few months already. October 17th is the “the music stops, everyone grab a chair” day.
jl
@Xantar:
” You mean to tell me that asking for the most extreme thing that’s never going to happen is not a good negotiating tactic? ”
Depends on whether you are a cheap two-but hood trying to extort some helpless scared people in quiet back alleys, or have to worry about public perception.
And their top line demand is not extreme (delaying ACA) it is absurdly weak, given their desperate screaming headline lie and scare campaign against it. The ACA issue will get most of the press. Then maybe Ryan budge plans and consequent Medicare Medicaid and Social Security slashing.
It’s stupid, unless the real plan is to try to rile up the base for the midterms.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
I guess it was a bad time to plan a visit to the Smithsonian the week after next.
Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
@? Martin: Maybe Canada would like a nice gulf coast state to winter at.
Nah, let’s sell AL to Putin…Russia may not keep their only warm water port in Syria for too much longer, why not offer them an alternative?
IowaOldLady
@JPL: Wow. How would delaying the vote work if we really are, as dmsilev says, at the drop dead deadline?
Ack. Does this mean I have to go to Politico to find out?
LanceThruster
“We think you’ll agree – We have trouble finding our ass with *both* hands.”
jl
@JPL: Damn straight. I did read a few articles from 2011 about Fed strategy. Basically they wanted a heads up from Treasury on who was going to get paid and how not in advance so they could look for alternative means of getting Treasury creditors temporary liquidity, and so they could look for and experiment with substitutes for treasuries in the repo market.
The Dangerman
@dmsilev:
Not per the CBO:
They say 11/1, but my understanding is that date is soft.
We’ll all know when the hard date is getting close; the Markets will be shitting enough bricks that we could build a wall around Texas (hmmm, let’s ponder than a moment) and the Republicans will have their choke chains yanked HARD by their Money Masters. We aren’t going to default.
IowaOldLady
Oh my. From Politico:
“During a canvassing of House Republicans Thursday, leadership found that the rank and file would like to see what kind of deal House Republicans end up with on the government funding fight before voting on a debt ceiling package. If the final continuing resolution ends up disappointing Republicans, the House GOP will want to beef up their debt ceiling proposal.”
JPL
@IowaOldLady: They don’t know. Boehner wanted to pass the debt limit with the required changes first and then a clean budget bill. It appears that plan backfired on him. We might have a shutdown they a debt crisis.
piratedan
well if we run up against it and have to sell off government pieces in order to satisfy our creditors, can we just give the Big Oil and Military Industrial Complex their Republican Congressman? Hell, they’re already bought and paid for anyways and it’s easier to sell them off as a depreciating asset and elect a new one than it is to keep these do-nothing prigs in office……
Roger Moore
@Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
They already have a warm water port on the Pacific: Vladivostok. It has the advantage over Alaska of having land connections to the rest of Russia. A warm water port in Alaska would be pretty useless, since they’d have to cross water (and need another warm water port to do it) in order to get there.
JPL
@IowaOldLady: Sorry I was not quick enough in my response. I’m not worried about adding more items because it is already obscene.
also, too.. how weak is boehner that he couldn’t get the votes to pass the debt limit bill. gee
IowaOldLady
@JPL: They are out of their minds.
Roger Moore
@The Dangerman:
I have an even better idea of what to do with a bunch of bricks. We tell John Boehner that we have a
Cask of Amontilladocase of Jack Daniels in the basement…catclub
@fuckwit: I have noticed a few of the “let them go ahead and implement Obamacare, it will be a disaster” rightwing editorials. Very few, but not zero. This is very different from the usual, it is so bad that it cannot even be implemented — which measn they are afraid it will be popular.
IowaOldLady
Crooks and Liars has a piece in which Peter King says his office has been getting “vile” phone calls from Cruz’s followers. They really are eating their own.
JPL
@Roger Moore: haha.. Whitey Bulger could give you a few ideas on how to accomplish that.
tybee
@Phil Perspective:
that would be a different part of the horses anatomy
Roger Moore
@IowaOldLady:
Because getting jack squat by holding the continuing resolution hostage will be proof that they’ll get everything by holding the debt ceiling hostage. Reality: how the fuck does it work?
Chris
@? Martin:
Who’d want to put up with Alabama?
jl
@Roger Moore: I guess they will add a demand for a 100 percent sequester of federal spending and resignation of Obama and Biden.
catclub
@Roger Moore: I would have guessed that Vladivostok ices over in winter.
Belafon
@The Dangerman: We actually hit the debt ceiling in April I think. We’ve been riding on the government juggling money around since. We run out on the 18th.
@The Dangerman: Saw the new info. This just means the Republicans will delay even longer.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Nope. The whole reason it’s strategically important is that it provides Russia with an ice-free port. Of course, with global warming, they may have nothing but ice free ports before very long.
jl
As commenter said above, the real date is unknown of Treasury hitting a hard limit, and depending on cash flows available for paying bills, and schedule of redemptions for issuing new securities. Many Treasury creditors will need liquidity, and they will want good cash, whether they can get it from Fed or Treasury is secondary. Feelers will go out about who will have a tantrum if they don’t get paid on time, and who can live with a suspension of payment.
It won’t be a sudden drop into an abyss, but probably rapidly growing stress on financial market, very bizarre things like different types of US dollar around the world trading at discounts, volatile and probably rising interest rates, and falling dollar (which should help US manufacturing).
There is an abyss, but we will be sliding down a gradually steepening slope with an unknown profile (kind of like the sequester).
The GOP will have to explain why it is causing this mess while they add to their already absurd demands. They will lose.
fuckwit
@catclub: They know it already is popular. Bill Kristol knew in the 1990s that anything like this would be wildly popular among voters, and a huge blow to corporate tyranny. Bosses wouldn’t have the terror to hold over employees anymore, of losing medical coverage if you get fired or quit.
Indeed, if it was going to be a disaster, they’d let it just fail. They are fighting it precisely because it’ll be a big success.
The Rethugs are pathetic, and the more I watch them flounder and sputter, the more ridiculous and hilarious I find them.
As for “delaying” it, for fuck’s sake, it’s been delayed already for 4 years! And it’s already going live next week. Too late to delay anything, this thing is rolling, and it’s not stopping.
Sloegin
Are we sure this is legit? Doesn’t seem like they’ve added the proviso to cut ACORN.
Belafon
@Roger Moore: From ThinkProgress, the first freighter to cross the Northern Passage is filled with coal.
Thlayli
@dmsilev:
The postscript to that story, as I heard it once:
Billy Squier was playing a lot of the same venues a few weeks after Van Halen. When he heard about their M&Ms rule, he put in his rider: “I want the brown M&Ms that Van Halen didn’t want.”
So the poor promoters who had to pick the brown M&Ms out couldn’t just throw them away; they had to wrap them up and store them until Squier came in.
Cermet
The President cannot give even one consession on the debt ceiling or we are screwed from there on. Either they cave or we default as a conutry. In the later case, far, far more harm will occur by fake fear than caused by any investors or countries pulling out; they woun’t, period because they have no where else to go. China’s economy will collaspe if they withdraw from the US bond market – we buy most of their stuff. Europe? Please, their banks fall if they withdraw from our market. So, who will withdraw from buying our bonds if we stop payments (and everyone knows those debts are good and will be paid after a short delay)? Wall Street and American Banks will scream like the pigs they are but they cannot fail unless … wait for it .. the Fed Reserve fails. Which cannot happen (since they still exist and will pay as soon as the thugs cave … . Sorry, the world does not end and within two weeks (shorter, I’d bet) the thugs will cave. After that, bond interest will be higher but that too, could help if it causes a weaker dollar. Sorry, but some good can occur besides the thugs will crash big time in 2014 when all the old fart white SS losers realize what those fuckers did and yes, that they will remember.
Eric U.
@dmsilev: If you ask Senate Republicans if they need their diaper changed, I’m afraid Vitter would hurt himself trying to get to the front of the line. Why that guy isn’t known to google as “senator poopy pants” escapes me.
MikeJ
@JPL:
Do not link. http://www.donotlink.com/ URL shortener that prevents transfer of pagerank.
JPL
@MikeJ: That is pretty cool. Thanks.
johnny aquitard
@IowaOldLady:
FTFY
Redshift
@The Dangerman:
I think you’re misinterpreting that. From other descriptions I’ve read, the Treasury, like any other large entity, needs a certain amount of “free cash” to conduct the normal operations of government. By the time it runs out completely, we’re well past the point where the government has defaulted on at least some of its debts.
Bubblegum Tate
@flukebucket:
“Kentucky College Republicans: Where a Sixth-Grade Education Makes You the Smartest Person in the Room”
chopper
@The Dangerman:
i’d believe the treasury more so than the CBO when it comes to how much the treasury can cover.
they say the 17th, i figure that’s about right.
? Martin
@The Dangerman:
The DL hit in May. They’ve been juggling since then. Here’s the treasury report.
See where it says Total Public Debt Subject to Limit ………. 16,699,396 and then
Statutory Debt Limit 16,699,421
Balance of Statutory Debt Limit 25
That’s the report from August. It’s looked exactly the same since May.
Regardless of what the CBO says, Lew is the guy who is actually juggling the cash. His date is the date. We’re fucked after the 17th, give or take a few days.
johnny aquitard
@Belafon: There’s irony in that, for sure.
piratedan
hey just because no other august body in the history of our nation has decided to withhold the purse from the nation, one that it had already approved, doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t hold the country hostage now for better agreements than the ones we made back in March, after all, we were elected to office too! So why shouldn’t we press our advantage and attempt to put forward our agenda now and renege on our agreements? Why wouldn’t you trust us to negotiate in good faith, after all, look at our track record! Besides, all we’re doing is hurting those lazy government workers and those moochers on the dole, besides, they don’t vote for us anyway so who cares?
see, it’s all in the messaging…..
jl
Apologies if another commenter already posted this.
Democrats Record Fake GOP Debt Ceiling Ransom Call
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/democrats-record-fake-gop-debt-ceiling-ransom-call
Citizen_X
@Chris:
Well hey, they’ve already proved they’re willing to fight the US.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
Firebaggers- haha!
Baud
From The Hill on Twitter:
Need moar demands!
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
Wonder why they left out prayer in school, complete restriction of abortion after the first trimester and the return of slavery to the former Confederate states.
Suffern ACE
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: because its the business money they are going to lose, not the fundie vote.
jl
@jl: And note that the GOP House’ asininely long list of extreme demands, coupled with a ridiculously weak and asinine demand on ACA, will make that ad quite convincing when it plays in a town near you.
The Dangerman
@? Martin:
Therein lies the rub; how few are a “few days”? But, it appears we’ve reached agreement that the 17th isn’t a hard drop dead.
We aren’t going to default, but reaching agreement may be the ugliest fight since … well, ever. It would just be nice to know how much of the upcoming shit is posturing and when the drop dead really is.
Baud
@The Dangerman:
I can’t believe Lew hasn’t built in some “give” on the drop-dead date. It would be crazy for them to announce Oct. 17 if it’s possible that they could strike a deal on the 16th and it would be too late.
Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
@Roger Moore: I had forgotten about Vladivostok…however, we were talking about Alabama, not Alaska, although selling off Alaska is a great idea too, particularly if we could get rid of the Palin brood.
Suffern ACE
Hmmm. I wonder how much the country would get if we’d trade in our legislative branch and buy one of those new foreign models?
Baud
I did not know this (from Ezra)
Baud
OT. More Twitter goodness:
MikeJ
@Baud: Just dick swinging from the warmonger.
Baud
@MikeJ:
I wonder if Kerry told the Russians, “We’ve really gotta wrap this up quick. We’re about to go out of business.”
Suffern ACE
@Baud: the accord goes in effect Monday, Wednesday and Friday and every third Saturday morning. We can’t afford to fund a full time accord at the moment.
Punchy
Wait….a minute. WITH all those demands they don’t have the votes, or dont have enough for a clean bill? Cuz if it’s the former…..whoooooooooaaaaa boy. What the fuck else needs to be in there to get the fuckers to vote for it?
jl
@Baud: Ha. Wonder what kind of currency the Russians use to finance their fossil fuel export economy?
Might be interesting to see how many world leaders are happy to make Obama look like the bestest mostest succesfulist git ‘er done president ever in the next few weeks.
Edit: Eurodolloars. That market may be the first to blow up if the US Treasury starts not paying all its creditors.
Edit:plus wonder about Russian thoughts about falling dollar on US fossil fuel exports.
Alex
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/324965-house-gop-doesnt-have-votes-to-move-debt-ceiling-plan
But hours after the meeting, the party had yet to formally release the legislation, and conservatives complained that it lacked specific spending cuts and failed to tackle entitlement reform.
…
Illustrating the leadership’s challenge in winning Republican votes, a member of the GOP’s whip team, Rep. Tom Rooney (Fla.), said he was leaning against the debt-ceiling plan because it did not seriously tackle entitlement reform.
“The problem for me is it doesn’t address the debt,” Rooney told The Hill.
He questioned how he could defend raising the limit without following through on the reforms Republicans proposed in their budget the past three years.
“How can I possibly justify that?” Rooney asked.
If every Democrat voted against the bill, which is likely, Republicans could afford only 16 defections.
Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.), who opposes any debt-ceiling increase at all, estimated there were 10 to 15 Republicans “that feel as strongly as I do,” and predicted GOP leaders did not have the votes to pass the legislation currently
———————————————————–
I wonder how the GOP can become more dysfunctional. Is it even possible at this point?
Suffern ACE
@Punchy: Obama resigns, gays agree to go back in the closet, they bring back Gunsmoke on Saturday nights.
The Dangerman
@Punchy:
Unlimited hookers and blow?
IowaOldLady
You know how the MSM says if the president would just negotiate with the Rs, everything would be fine? John Boehner is third in line for the presidency and he can’t even negotiate with the fools.
This extremism makes me wonder if we’ll see a third party run in 2016.
rea
Asked a girl what she wanted to be
She said baby, “Can’t you see
I wanna be famous, a star on the screen
But you can do something in between”
Baby you can drive my car
Yes I’m gonna be a star
Baby you can drive my car
And maybe I love you
Suffern ACE
@IowaOldLady: nope. What the Republicans are asking for is the enactment of their platform. If Republican voters find it extreme, why have the voted for Republicans?
nineone
@chopper:
Primary their Commie asses!
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Snail on a straight-razor. He just can’t seem to figure out how to play it. Sack up, Jo-Jo, or take yo’ dead ass home.
Chris
@IowaOldLady:
The only people who would want a third party are those among the 1%ers and party elites who realize that the teabaggers are destroying the party. Unfortunately for them, these people have no voter base.
chopper
i just love this. basically they’re asking for romney’s entire platform to be enacted. in exchange for a year-long break from taking the whole economy hostage.
tire rims and anthrax indeed.
chopper
this is also good news for obama. no, really, it is. this laughable piece of shit just goes to show how unserious these fuckers are.
if we do go over the cliff here, obama has plenty to point to in order to paint the other guys as nihilistic d-bags. this isn’t ‘oh, obama wouldn’t negotiate over one thing’, this is ‘obama wouldn’t resign and appoint mitt romney as president’.
cckids
@jl:
It really won’t be funny. My spouse does tax & financial planning for people, he is fee-based, meaning if their portfolios do well, so does his business. Tanking the stock market (AGAIN) will kill us. We are finally recovering from the last time.
WereBear
Yeah, but how did they get this far? It’s arguable that a collapse of all currency would hit the rich even harder… they have further to fall.
cckids
@The Dangerman:
I thought that 10/18 was the date all the juggling that could be done would run out & then we are in no-shit default land.
Like when you’re paying credit cards & groceries using other cards, sooner or later you smack into the credit limit, and then what do you do?
? Martin
@The Dangerman:
Probably no more than 2. Daily revenues aren’t completely predictable but they are pretty well bounded. In 2011 they weren’t off by more than a day.
Central Planning
Wait. Aren’t women always supposed to be three feet behind their husband?
And, has anyone seen this piece by Avik Roy? He was an outside advisor to the Romney campaign.
danielx
@chopper:
If you don’t give us everything we want, we’ll kill this dog.
mclaren
Why didn’t the Republicans ask to crucify a thousand puppies, beat all the baby seals to death with tire irons, and demand Obama buy a free pony for everyone in America while they were at it?
Pikers.
mclaren
@chopper:
Dude…wait till you see their presidential candidate for 2016…
Suffern ACE
@Central Planning: I’m laughing here. I’m going to guess that Forbe’s middle class corporate audience hasn’t a clue on how much they are paying for insurance now because it is deducted from their paycheck and they only see 20% of the total premium.
Long Tooth
“Yes, it is very weird for someone to be picked up by their spouse at the airport. These people are clinical”.
In the comedy The Great American Smoke-out (circa mid-70’s), a John Birch-type character, speaking of his fellow Birchers in a serious vein, states, “I was never one of those who believed Ike was a Red”.
A few years later, Reagan was elected to the presidency and the shit-train began to roll.
RobNYNY1957
Here’s an option I have not seen in the press. Treasury issues a call option to buy federal bonds, exerciseable when the debt ceiling is raised, with exercise price that declines over time to mimic the accrual of interest. The purchase price for the option would be very close to the principal amount of the debt that Treasury needs. Say an option to buy priced at $99 billion to purchase $100 billion of debt. Sell them either to the market, a friendly government, or to the Fed. Purchase price payable in cash or federal obligations.
With a little hand waving, you can pretend this isn’t debt, but still raise virtually as much money as debt.
Yatsuno
@Central Planning: Avik likes pretty charts that are horribly defined. He also gives zero sourcing for where he’s getting his pre-ACA numbers, so there is zero to check if he’s actually right or totally meschugnah. I’m calling bullshit since no other analyst has made a claim like this anywhere.
TopClimber
@balconesfault: stalking a female candidate will sure help the GOP with the gender gap.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
Furlough numbers will be out Friday PM according to GovExec:
Having some hard numbers may increase the pressure on Boehner to reign in his children, but I’m not optimistic.
On the debt limit – my recollection is that the Treasury doesn’t have systems in place to prioritize payments. But making noises about Social Security checks not going out helped concentrate Congress’s mind in the ’90s and is worth doing again. The Teabaggers need to learn the lesson that they’re not the majority – they’re a shrinking minority…
Cheers,
Scott.
pseudonymous in nc
If Minty Jim wanted to ‘litigate’ the ACA, he should have stayed in the Senate instead of taking Heritage’s shilling.
pseudonymous in nc
@Yatsuno:
And it’s comparing apples with orange-painted balls of shit to begin with, because the individual insurance market pre-ACA was basically a cesspit, where people were often paying lowish premiums for shitty policies that paid out fuck-all, and kicked you off for pre-existing conditions if they got wind of a sick note from middle school. The equivalent of buying tiger repellant.
cme emini quote
Howdy just wanted to give you a quick heads up.
The text in your post seem to be running off the screen in Internet explorer.
I’m not sure if this is a format issue or something to do with internet browser
compatibility but I figured I’d post to let you know.
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