Yesterday, at the end of this post about Drudge’s misleading headline about Alito’s wife, I wrote that “I am so sick and tired of everyone just lying about every-damned-thing.” Apparently I should just get used to it.
Paul at Wizbang writes today:
The moonbat wing of the Democratic party is trying to make the case that Lindsey Graham made Mrs. Alito cry. They are hiding behind John Cole’s skirt to do it. John misses the mark when he says:
But only the most patently dishonest person on the planet would claim that Mrs. Alito left after a Democratic attack. She left after REPUBLICAN Sen. Lindsey Graham was basically praising Alito, defending him and reciting some of the things that have been said about Alito.
Hello? Of course she left after the Dems attack. Not just rhetorically but chronologically. You can’t say the Drudge headline is a lie unless she left before the attack. (OK call me a literalist.) [And to split a hair, if you watch the video, John has it slightly off. She starts crying before Lindsey Graham starts the apology so his point is moot anyway.]
But that completely misses the larger point. When a widow crys at her husband’s eulogy is she crying because of the speaker or because her husband is dead?
Lindsey Graham no more made her cry than I did. The emotion of the whole thing got to her. Dare I say it that if your spouse when thru that, you’d probably be in the same condition by the end of it.
First off, I don’t know much about Paul, but I am going to pour a stiff scotch in a few hours. That ain’t a skirt I am wearing, but a kilt. Get it right.
Second, there are parts I agree with Paul and parts I disagree. My main contention was with Drudge’s headline and pictures, which is why I posted a snapshot of them. Drudge had a montage of Kennedy, Feinstein, Schumer, and Mrs. Alito, and it looked like each of the three Democrats was yelling. The picture he had up of Mrs. Alito was of her in tears. Beneath it ran the headline “ALITO WIFE LEAVES HEARING IN TEARS AFTER DEM ATTACK.”
As I noted in the comments, no shit, and the headline could have read “ALITO WIFE LEAVES HEARING IN TEARS AFTER BREAKFAST” or “ALITO WIFE LEAVES HEARING IN TEARS AFTER KENNEDY CLEARS HIS THROAT FOR THE 33rd TIME.” Chronologically, as Paul notes, she left after the Democratic ‘attacks’ (if that is what you want to call them), but that is not what Drudge’s headline leads one to think. His headline makes it look like Kennedy or someone else stood up, launched into a vicious tirade, and Mrs. Alito was so ruffled that she broke down into tears and fled the hearings. it was, and I stick to this assertion, a hacktacular headline. It misrepresented what happened.
I saw what happened with my own lying eyes. It was during Sen. Graham’s friendly questioning and rhetorical deflation of Democratic assertions that she became overwhelmed and began to cry.
Why did she cry? I guess the conventional wisdom among some is that she just became overwhelmed by the day’s events and Graham’s rhetoric was what pushed her over the edge (he was the only one to use the word bigot, if I remember correctly). Maybe the nice things he was saying were so nice she was moved to tears. Maybe the events just became too much for her and she began to weep. I don’t know. Neither do you.
Did the Democrats say some stupid and offensive things yesterday? Sure they did. I don’t remember Sen. Kennedy claiming Alito had a black baby, and I don’t remember Sen. Schumer testifying that Alito snapped under pressure in a Vietnamese POW camp and sold out America, and I don’t remember Sen. Feinstein stating that Alito shot himself to get out of the VietNam war, but did they say some nasty things? Sure. And I said so.
But the way Drudge portrayed events was patently dishonest, and I stick to that.
*** Update ***
James Taranto and crew weigh in:
So let’s follow the argument here. Mrs. Alito left while Lindsey Graham was apologizing for the Democratic attack on her husband. That attack had taken place before she left. Therefore it is a lie to say she left after the attack. We must admit, we find this Angry Left logic difficult to fathom.
See! She left after the Democrats were talking. So therefore it must have been the Democratic attacks.
Hey, Jimmy- since you are having trouble with logic, here is some for you:
Do I think the Democrats statements had anything to do with her crying? Sure. But it did not unfold as Drudge and the folks at the Opinion Journal would like you to believe. I guess I am part of the “Angry Left” now. Better than the dishonest right, which is where I would put BotW today.
jg
It was the picture you posted of the little girl holding a kitten that made her cry. It’s obvious since you posted that BEFORE she cried.
The Crack Young Staff
Uh, you spelled “propter” wrong, Johnny. If you are going to cast aspersions at others, you ought to get your Latin right.
John Cole
Thanks. I ALWAYS spell that wrong. Always.
IU1995
John,
You have committed blasphemy because you will not say what Paul wants you to say. You have not blindly accepted his interpretation of the events as they unfolded or the Drudge headline. Therefore, your post goes in one eye and out the other.
I’m all about calling a spade and spade and that’s what you’ve done. Most people prefer to spin reality out of life rather than embrace common sense.
Like Andrew Sullivan, you seem to have a way of telling it like it is. I’m a first time visitor to your site. I am also a left-leaner … but I applaud your honesty and I’m officially adding your site to my favorites.
But back to the topic at hand … give it up … you are wasting you time here.
Zifnab
Actually, I think she didn’t start crying until Graham started fluffying himself.
It was when the Gentleman from South Carolina started saying how just because he or his collegues happens to receive money from a certain Texas Lobbyist up for inditements of bribery and corruption, just because they happen to pose for a few photographs, just because they coincidentally pass legislation in the interest of him and his clients does NOT mean that those Republicans are in any way themselves bribed or corrupt.
No sir. Lindsey Graham isn’t going down for corruption charges. That dive is reserved for Democrats. Democrats who received money from Abramoff. Yes. Them. Or something.
And then he got back around to something about a Supreme Court nominee hearing.
Darrell
John, since you’re calling others dishonest, how do you reconcile your statement today
with what you posted earlier
I mean, if you admit that you didn’t know why she cried, then how could you possibly “know” it was not from Dem attacks on her husband? Just sayin’
The Other Steve
The more hay the moonbat wing of the Republican party tries to make from this, the more it becomes clear that this was a staged event.
This is a non-issue. If she wet her pants, it would still be a non issue.
If she tossed her cookies, it would be a non issue.
If she had an Alien baby emerge from her stomach, it would be a non issue.
If her head started spinning and we heard the voice of Satan, it would be a non issue.
Seriously, losers… If this is the best you can do. “Whaaaaa! Democrats were mean! BOO HOO! I’m going to call my mommy.” get the fuck off the tracks.
my cat
Yes, John is a breath of very fresh air. Normally I would be completely sickened by the dishonesty being displayed the rightwing blogshere–but it does seem like there’s hope for civil democracy if one Republican can tell the others off so forthrightly.
I don’t like Democrat cant either, but it seems like there is a lot less of it.
John Cole
Because Darrell, there was no withering attack to begin with- the hearings have been pretty damned tame, if you ask me. Additionally, she did not break down when the Democrats were speaking, but during Graham’s (wand I generally like Graham) fawning apologia.
The Other Steve
Can you fix that changing multiple explanation points into an image? It really looks annoying. :-) Thanks!
TM Lutas
Ok, let’s review here and compare and contrast the competing narratives:
1. Mrs. Alito toughed out some hostile questioning by Democrats, no tears but lost it when her husband was subject to friendly questioning by a Republican Senator. The Republican Senator made Mrs. Alito cry and should be ashamed of himself.
2. Mrs. Alito toughed out some hostile questioning by Democrats, no tears but when the Republican Senator recapped Democrat attacks in order to defang them, the pain of listening to her husband being called a bigot and other nasty things by the Democrats made itself felt in her heart and she cried and left the chamber. The Democrat Senators made Mrs. Alito cry and should be ashamed of themselves.
Anybody want to stand up for narrative 1 or provide narrative 3? The point of Drudge is to highlight the sensational, the shameful, the emotional rollercoaster that is life. He’s never been really big on intellectual fine points. The story clearly had a “Shame! Shame” subtext to it. So who should be ashamed?
The Other Steve
Agreed. This has been one of the most cordial lame ass boring hearings I have heard in my life time.
jg
If she did break down during the dem ‘attack’, so what? Why is it a news event? Will changes to nomination hearings result? Just more bad press for liberals?
Steve
Maybe Raw Story should run a headline like “ALITO WIFE LEAVES HEARING IN TEARS AFTER BUSH SPYING SCANDAL REVEALED,” which is true, right?
What’s amazing is that it’s only the magical power of John Cole’s skirts that defuses this ridiculous argument. If not for John, and a few other principled voices, this would just be another “he said, she said” shouting match between the right-wing blogs and the Angry Left. The talking point (“Drudge’s headline was literally true!”) would get disseminated and half the blogosphere would nod their heads in sage approval.
There’s a reason why Andrew Sullivan needs to hand out the “Yglesias Award” in the first place – there’s just a shockingly low number of people out there who stand somewhat in the middle and actually call ’em like they see ’em. And it’s not a fun state of affairs.
Stormy70
As a woman, I don’t break down while angry, until someone shows me sympathy, then the dam breaks. I would have slapped Kennedy silly if he spoke that way about my husband. If you didn’t see it, then fine, but I saw it. Kennedy trying to question the integrity of anyone is the height of hypocrisy. The Dems had on their polite faces today, because they ended up looking like bullies yesterday.
Skip
I have it on good authority that Ed Muskie and Dick Vermiel had to be escorted to the vomitorium.
My opinion: Lindsey Graham is just another wily southern nut-cutter.
Otto Man
Ugh. I’m sure she’s a lovely woman, but I don’t give a shit about the fact that she cried and I don’t give a shit about who might have made here cry.
This is a Senate confirmation hearing for a lifetime appointment to the highest court in the land. The families shouldn’t even be there, and if they are, they sure as hell shouldn’t be the focal point for the discussions. I’m sorry if Martha-Ann Bomgardner (or whatever name she went by before the GOP coaches recently recast her as “Mrs. Alito”) had her feelings hurt. But this is a job interview, not a coronation. And if she can’t handle hard questions set before her husband, she should either learn to do what her husband does (dodge ’em) or sit in the hallway. This isn’t about your feelings, ma’am.
There are major issues out there — the apparent anointing of this president as our new king, for one — and both sides of the aisle are using these hearings for political theater. The Republicans are praising Alito for his integrity and family history, neither of which are actual qualifications for the Court, while the Democrats are spending their time on peripheral issues like CAP and Vanguard.
Martha-Ann Bomgardner’s feelings have zero to do with these hearings, and it’s a special combination of Republican kabuki, Democratic incompetence, and the media’s stupidity that’s letting it happen.
SeesThroughIt
The mere fact that anybody is trying to make hay out of this non-issue is beyond retarded. And it’s pretty damn sad that Republicans are trying to use this as ammo against Democrats: “Look, they made some lady cry! They’re terrible people.” To all Republicans carrying on this line of thinking, there is only one thing to say:
Bitch, please!
Davebo
Stormy
Kennedy is paid to question the integrity of Alito. It’s what he was elected to do.
Now Kennedy did indeed question Alito’s integrity, but he nor anyone else ever called him a bigot or any other derogatory name.
But given your obvious interest in such areas, I must ask what your reaction was to Zell Miller’s speech at the last GOP convention.
Steve
Is that you, Joe Biden? :)
Stormy70
It’s supposed to be an honor to be nominated, and family members are allowed to attend. I didn’t realize the new Dem tactic was to emulate a “reality” show called the Gauntlet. He was rated as highly qualified for the court by the ABA. At that point, his confirmation was inevitable. The Dems’ posturing this weak just looks tired and desparate. I mean, bitching about access to CAP records, only to have said records completely released with no mention of Alito, at all? Complete amateur hour.
Another Jeff
skip, just in case nobody else gets that, I did and it was damn funny.
I would do what most other people do and say that i “spit soda/coffee/water all over my keyboard”, but i’m not drinking anything, so you’ll just have to accept that i thought it was damn funny.
LITBMueller
My Proposed Narrative Number Three, by LITBMueller
ahem! [cough]
3) Due to the numerous and specious attacks of Democrat member of the Senate Judiciary Committee upon the honor and integrity of Judge Samuel Alito, a judge with 15 years experience who has been deemed qualified by the ABA and a majority of the country, the kind and lovely wife of Judge Alito began to sob uncontrollably.
Unable to stem the tide of emotions that rushed forth in the wake of Democrat attacks, Mrs. Alito was forced to leave the hearing room and fell in a heap to the floor in the hallway. Helpful White House aides tended to and consoled her. Mrs. Alito could only ask, between sobs and sniffles, “Why don’t they just leave us alone? My husband is a good man!”
During a brief respite from the Democrat barrage, Judge Alito was able to join his wife in the hallway. He gallantly picked her up in both of his arms, and smiled. While gently brushing aware her tears, he encouraged her, “Don’t worry dear. We know what the truth is. And so do the American people. We will get through this political nonsense, and then be able to serve this great country with honor.”
Both Judge Alito and his wife returned to the hearing room, and were able to continue with bravery in the face of continued Democrat verbal assaults.
How’s that? Maybe I could get a job with the Swift Boat people? Anybody got Drudge’s number? ;)))
Andrew
… but very, very cool.
Stormy70
Oh really? That’s what advise and consent means? Have a man who left his girlfriend in a car to drown, while his rich family bailed him out of legal trouble, question the integrity of anyone? Sure, I’ll buy that for a dollar.
Have Schumer, who had to fire staffers for the illegal obtaining of Michael Steele’s credit report, question Alito on right to privacy issues? Whoops, another dollar gone.
Biden is a pontificating ninny, in love with his own voice, rambling on and on about Princeton?
Whatev.
Stormy70
But what Clan does said Kilt belong to? We may have a blood fued on our hands.
But our love of Laphroig may keep the swords sheathed.
We’ll see.
Ancient Purple
The Senate is on the verge of installing a new justice that may very well vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. On that day, women in several states who have been raped will now have to bear the children of the rapist because it will be illegal for them to have abortions.
But nothing is as horrific as Mrs. Alito crying.
Besides, all those raped women were sluts and probably deserved it. Didn’t you see how they were dressed?
Remember the new meme:
It’s okay as long as it doesn’t make Mrs. Alito cry.
Stormy70
If Roe v. Wade is overturned, then it gets returned to the states. And I doubt that abortion will ever be illegal.
Davebo
Yep, that’s the way it works in our democracy. And the way it always has.
As to this little gem.
Tell that to Robert Bork.
Stormy70
Oh and the rest of you? Just watch it.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Ahhh more disingeniousness from the rapid right!
Sure she left while Graham apologized, but she started to CRY when Graham asked if Alito was a closet bigot.
I will never, ever forget the rampant dishonesty displayed by the Republicans. Whatever little respect I had for them before, I have lost it completely.
Stormy70
The Dem majority? Gone like a freight train, gone like yesterday…
Country music will generally fit any situation.
Ancient Purple
You are flat out wrong. Illinois has a tigger law in effect that activates the second RvW is overturned. Abortion becomes illegal in Illinois except if the mother’s life is endangered.
jg
The group that calls for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and flag burning (and Prohibition)will leave abortion to individual states? You believe that? On what grounds?
The Disenfranchised Voter
EXACTLY! Exactly John, and I think we both know that is what Drudge and the other dishonest bastards wanted it to seem as.
Davebo
So I can only assume that you were upset when the hatchet man of the Saturday Night Massacre wasn’t appointed to the Supreme Court of the land?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren’t aware of Bork’s past.
Stormy70
Well, I am fast and furious with the posts lately.
The respect you had for the right? What respect? One argument and you are insulting everyone around you. I think there is still spittle on your cheek.
Clever
I am outraged that more people aren’t outraged…if we can’t focus the nomination debate on Democrats making wives cry [They all do, I know it. I don’t have one but if I did she’d cry when one walked into the room] then how can we fully know the overqualification of Mr. Alito?
It would still be the fault of insensitive Democrats. If Supreme Court nominees’ wives cry, the terrorists win.
/end wingnut
…whats the best is the anger over the AP reporting it as it happened and not explicitly blaming the Democrats.
Source
[I took the AP story link from the source above…I cannot for the life of me understand how the AP misrepresented anything.]
Stormy70
Hey man! That was before I was of voting age. I knew that Reagan was the coolest cat on the planet, though. And I voted for Bush when he ran Ann Richards out of Austin. Sweet.
maybee
John, I think you are wrong about what ‘made’ Alito’s wife cry. I don’t think it is mysterious or unknowable, but I don’t think it’s a big deal. But you know what? I disagree with you. I don’t think you are lying.
Here’s your headline at daily kos:
Is that a lie? Did Lindsey Graham make Mrs. Alito cry?
Or is it a mistatement?
All we know is our own human experiences, and someone speaking on her behalf said she just isn’t used to this. People may disagree on how they saw it and how they interpret it. But I am bothered when the discourse turns into it being a lie! and anyone that sees it differently is being dishonest. And that’s why I disagreed with your post yesterday.
Vlad
If someone on the left had said that Mrs. Alito left in tears after having sex with her husband, how loud would the wingnuts have been screaming?
One is just as correct as the other. Technically.
Brian
Get a f**king grip, man.
I saw Taranto’s link to John’s post about Drudge’s headline, a few hours after I had moved Balloon Juice from my “conservative” blog file to my “liberal” file in my blog favorites. Given his recent posts, the tone of those posts, and a majority of his commentariat, BJ is now where it belongs, right alongside D-Koz.
M.A.
OT, but does anyone else think Taranto is the single worst “conservative” pundit on the planet? It’s his insufferable smugness, I think — the way he never actually engages with an argument, instead sniffs and tut-tuts about the “angry left,” while spouting the most vile lies and smears under a veneer of gentility. It’s the apotheosis of the Wall Street Journal concept that as long as you use genteel language and don’t swear, you can say any evil thing you want — he’s the perfect combination of all that was worst about old-style Republicans and new-style Republicans.
scs
Okay Narrative 3. Mrs. Alito knows that her husband is a closet bigot, and hearing her husband deny it made her cry, mostly because of the guilt she feels over her terrible secret. You know I kind of wonder. Something strange about her crying right then. But I love a good conspiracy theory anyway.
Davebo
As was that little “Advice and Consent” part of the constitution obviously.
Davebo
But wait Stormy..
Wasn’t the Kennedy auto mishap prior to you reaching voting age as well?
Davebo
I believe you’ve already been warned about speaking ill of Jeff Goldstein posts here.
OUT OF THE POOL!
;0)
The Disenfranchised Voter
Without a doubt YES. It was HIS WORDS that caused her to cry.
That doesn’t not mean she was upset before his words, but GRAHAM’S WORDS MADE HER CRY.
There is no debate about it. Unless you are extremely dishonest.
Vladi G
I’m not sorry. She needs to learn to suck it up.
scs
Don’t let nasty blogging drive you to smoke.
Perry Como
John Cole Says:
I always preffered tu quoque.
Vladi G
If the shoe fits…
MattM
A-freaking-men.
Wolf Blitzer looked like somebody kicked his grandmother as the “breaking news” came in. IT’S NOT A STORY.
Brian
Stormy, good luck barking up this tree with these monkeys in it. I raised the abortion issue yesterday in a separate post, and it didn’t go well.
To everyone else: Roe makes abortion consitutional as a matter of privacy. It has nothing to with the legality of abortion. Overturning Roe would force lawmakers to then treat it as a matter of law, either in congress, or in state legislatures. This favors the Democrats, who are pro-abortion. Pro-life activists would not be able to persuade Republicans to take seriously any passing of strict pro-life laws, because there are too many moderate voters out there who would be appalled at such restrictions.
Even the Liberal Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has said that Roe v. Wade terminated a nascent democratic movement to liberalize abortion laws which might have built a more durable consensus in support of abortion rights. In other words, Roe put the issue in a time warp that has only served to unnecessarily politicize our democratic process on the single topic at the expense of more important issues.
Think about it, what have the Dem’s been bitching about with Alito? 1) Abortion, and 2) CAP. That’s IT! Is abortion always going to become the fulcrum on which your political decisions will be made?
fwiffo
The standards for calling something a lie have become so absurd as to remove all meaning from the word, much like our new tourtured definitions for torture. You can say something that is intentionally and willfully misleading, but it’s not a lie, because if we use babelfish to translate it into Klingon and back it might turn out as something that could be true in an alternate dimension.
—————————————-
Ya know, this whole political dirty bullshit stuff that’s gone to such extremes the past few years reminds me of something.
Occasionally my friends and family will be discussing the Lions. Maybe they’ll stop sucking soon, or hey, this new guy they drafted might actually work out, or maybe this trade really was a good idea, or the new coach will straighten things out. Any time we get to an argument expressing any sort of optimisim, my brother just says “Andre Ware.”
It’s like if you’re playing rock-paper-scissors, and somebody does some odd gesture and says “thermonuclear device”. Sure, it’s pretty childish and annoying that they broke the rules and spirit of the game, but nonetheless, a thermonuclear device would defeat any rock, piece of paper or pair of scissors. Likewise, the simple utterance “Andre Ware” logically defeats any agrument expressing optimisim in the Detroit Lions. You can try to mount a rebuttal, but it won’t work, because, Andre Ware.
So, any time I hear a Republican whine that Democrats are being partisan, or mean, or are playing dirty politics, I just say “Vince Foster.” “But…” they protest, and I cut them off – “Vince fucking Foster.”
Vladi G
I’m afraid I don’t know any of those. Interestingly enough, I also don’t know any conservatives who are “pro-life”. Nice attempt at framing, though.
Perry Como
LITBMueller Says:
That was good, but you forgot the part about Judge Alito fighting off the terrorist ninjas while still carrying his wife. Judge Alito is like Chuck Norris with an attitude.
Cable
I think the thing that gets me is that Republicans are supposed to be the strong, “daddy” party and here they are whining about one of their lady folk crying because the Democrats were mean to her husband? I thought they ate Democrats for breakfast and here some questions can make their women folk CRY?? Aw…..poor baby. Confirmations and not like Trix, they are NOT for kids. :)
Davebo
Err, No.
Abortion was always constitutional, which is why abortion was legal in many states prior to Roe. Roe made the right to an abortion a constitutional right.
On this you are correct. Which is exactly why Republican politicians would go crazy were Roe to be overturned. Because at that point they’d have to actually walk the walk instead of just paying lip service to their pro life voters. And for them that would in most cases actually consist of walking the plank.
Vladi G
Fuckin’ Chuck Norris.
Cable
Oh, forgot to add, John I don’t always agree with your views but I applaud your honesty and the fact you let people “discuss” things on this blog. I know it’s not a big deal to you, but you and Sullivan are the only right of the center commentators that I read.
That said, Colts 31 Steelers 14. :)
Davebo
If only they had hired Jack Pardee to go with him!
Vince Young!
The Captain of the O
Hah, the internet elite of left attacks you when you go against them and the internet elite of the right attack you when you don’t toe the line. The reasonable man truly walks alone.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Odd that it always seems to involved Stormy, don’tcha think?
Oh wait, I forgot. Thinking isn’t something you are accustom to.
*LIBERTARIANS FOR KENNEDY*
/snark
Stormy70
I am not the only one to think so.
See here.
See here, too.
Doesn’t seem to have been an active member. Plus, an alumni group wanting standards for entrance to Princeton to be kept high? Seems pretty tame to me. Unless you feel that women and minorities just don’t have the acedemic chops to get into Princeton without help.
The Disenfranchised Voter
*involve
*dontcha
and scratch the “seems”. It always does involve Stormy and someone else.
Otto Man
Not really. I’ve heard tons of questions on executive power.
But of course those matters aren’t as sexy to Wolf Blitzer as another tragic tale of a white woman in peril. If Bomgardner actually goes missing in the next few days, Wolf will likely be the first newscaster to climax on live television.
scs
Maybe it’s because she’s one of the few non-lefties who bother to post here still. All the others have been driven away by insane abusive rantings by people who only want an echo chamber.
Vern Snyder
You people are really priceless. Let me get this right. You don’t know EXACTLY what caused the Judge’s wife to leave in tears but you DO know it wasn’t a bunch of people calling her husband a racist, sexist bigot (admittedly MY words but only a moron would deny their implications). So we’re supposed to believe that a woman shouldn’t be bothered in the least by watching her husband being attacked but she WAS bothered by someone praising him and apologizing for his compatriot’s childish behavior?
You libs have pulled this stunt countless times..You go out and wreak havoc on the country, turn over your aftermath to someone else to try and straighten it out or PAY for it and then stand back and say, “It happened on HIS watch so it was HIS fault”. Have any of you EVER entertained the concept of CAUSE-AND-EFFECT????? How absolutley STUPID CAN YOU BE???
O.K., I’ll play your silly game. In the 30 (+/-) years that John Kerry has been in the Senate over 25 million babies have been killed. So according to YOUR logic, JOHN KERRY KILLS BABIES!!!! GOOD GOSH PEOPLE!! PLEASE GET AT LEAST ONE BRAIN CELL BETWEEN YOU!!!!
The Other Steve
It’s interesting. I think this is a sign of the Conservatives losing their hold on reality.
Anyway, on a side note. Did anybody notice the name of Mr. Alito’s wife?
It’s Martha-Ann Bomgardner. That’s right. Bomgardner is her last name. Not even a hyphenated Bomgardner-Alito.
Now back in my day, when I was a Republican, this notion of women’s lib where wives didn’t take the husbands last name was widely ridiculed. Many hours were spent lamenting about the breakdown of the institution of marriage resulting from this tradition change.
I just find it interesting that now adays when I look around, it’s the Liberals who are abiding by the traditional notions, and the Conservatives who do not. Anybody want to ponder why that might be?
I just say this, because this isn’t the first time I’ve noticed this.
At one time Conservatives used to champion traditional values. Today, I don’t think they even know what they are champions for, other than getting some kickbacks apparently.
Otto Man
That’s not what CAP was about. This wasn’t a group fighting against affirmative action for women and minorities. This was a group fighting against race-blind and gender-blind admissions policies. And with Princeton — which had minorities on campus in the 1960s, but no women — the gender aspect was the real crux of the matter.
I hoped that’s spelled out simply enough for you. CAP opposed sex-blind admissions. This wasn’t about keeping “unqualified” women out of Princeton, it was about keeping qualified women out and maintaining the Old Boys’ Club.
maybee
Ah, yes, the only way to see it differently is to be dishonest. No such thing as a difference of opinion or a different interpretation of events. It’s all lying and dishonesty.
If we’re seriously going to rise to the level of stating only the absolutely knowable to avoid lying, the best we can say is SHE CRIED DURING LINDSEY GRAHAM’S words. We can NOT say his words made her cry.
Davebo
Far as I can tell, HE was re-elected so it’s still his watch, HIS havoc (on this country and others) and HIS record setting debt.
Freakin hilarious really. Dougj, knock it off damnit!
Otto Man
Did those articles bring up the issue of Chappaquiddick like you did? No? Then there’s no comparison.
Brian
So true. So, so true.
The Other Steve
Brain – Please don’t turn this thread into another one of your moonbat abortion arguments.
Vern Snyder – Please. Their’s no crying in politics. If you want to go cry to mommy, do it somewhere else.
scs –
I don’t want an echo chamber. I want conservatives to start acting like conservatives again and presenting rational arguments that we can debate the points of and find a better way to manage things.
When my brother and I were kids we used to play this game. He’d say something like “I like Mac and Cheese” and I would say “That’s disgusting”, he’d ask why and I’d say “Because it’s yellow. Pee is yellow. Do you like eating piss?”
That’s what debating with moonbat conservatives is like.
Yesterday Brian informed us that he wants Roe v Wade overturned, so that we can take the decision making out of the courts and back into the peoples hands. When it was pointed out that Roe v Wade took the decision out of the govts hands and into the people, he yelled and screamed and called us all names.
I had someone tell me once that Gay Marriage infringed on his rights. He’s not even married, he’s certainly not gay. But somehow it infringed on his rights.
I think I’d rather eat pee.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Yes we can. She didn’t cry during the Dems attacks. She cried once Graham grandstanded and threw the closet bigot question out. If you think the Dem Senators were accusing Alito of being a bigot you are delusional. Which validates my theory from earlier. It’s a little bit of dishonesty, and a lotta bit of delusions with you people.
If Graham never said the shit that he did she wouldn’t have cried.
Otto Man
A jurist who will in all likelihood have to pass judgment on affirmative action and equal treatment cases involving college admissions used to brag about his involvement in a right-wing group that was opposed to all of that, and that’s not relevant?
I guess the land of the left must be the only place where a Supreme Court hearing is about more than whether or not Martha-Ann Bomgardner had her feelings hurt by the mean ol’ demmycrats.
jg
I can’t believe people are arguing over what made his wfe cry. Who gives a shit? This man is applying for a lifetime appoointment in our government,. We can’t ask tough questions because his wife might cry? Why is her crying any kind of issue at all? Because it makes dems look bad if spun right? Is the right that fucking addled they buy it? Are they that easily pushed around on issues?
The Disenfranchised Voter
Yea Brian because I abuse you with my ranting all the time…
Davebo
Sigh..
Yet another issue that occurred prior to Stormy reaching voting age I guess.
Wonder if that worked for her with her history teacher? Or did she just pipe down on such subjects in that scenario?
Stormy Gump Shrimp anyone?
Perry Como
Us conservatives do know that it was the mean, nasty Democrats that caused Judge Alito’s wife to leave. The real outrage is how the MSM is not covering how Judge Alito single-handedly took on dozens of terrorist ninjas in the Capitol building while he was comforting his wife. They could have at least mentioned the white horse he was riding.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Run along gnat.
Davebo
Nope. She’d have looked around in bewilderment asking “did I miss my cue?”.
jg
What did you say when he said he liked Cheez Wiz?
Otto Man
Don’t even try to reason it out. Stormy accused me of “browbeating” scs yesterday, by which she apparently meant that the Other Steve had said something mean to scs, and even though I hadn’t said a thing, as fellow brothers of the left, we all wore the sin equally.
And did she mention Chappaquiddick? Therefore Alito should be confirmed.
P.S. Michael Moore is fat.
The Other Steve
As I understand Chappamoonbat, if anything it would be considered manslaughter. A drunk driving off a bridge, would not have been considered murder in that day and age. Possibly today, with the draconian anti-drinking laws we have, but not then.
But more likely it would have been simply regarded as an accident.
You realize Laura Bush did something very similar, when she was out driving drunk and ran into another car? Should she be accused of murder? Is that at all appropriate.
I don’t even like Kennedy, but I don’t understand why moonbats like yourself bring up this shit. Who is it helping?
Kennedy didn’t make CAP an issue. Alito did, when he put it on his Resume in 1985 apparently believing it was important.
It’s part of the process. Obviously Alito now realizes that CAP was probably not the Jaycee’s and as such is not an enviable organization to blong to, so he’s distancing himself from it. That’s fine, but Kennedy did nothing wrong in asking him about it.
Cable
Come on, people. It was a STUNT. That’s all. It was done to make the Democrats look like they were being mean to Alito. And WHO CARES if she started crying? Again, if Republicans will whine and cry at “mean” questioning how are they going to protect us from terrorists? Maybe instead of bombs, they will start hurling insults and our leaders will break down and flood the land with thier tears. Geesh.
And this is the party that is supposed to be tough on terrorists?????
The Disenfranchised Voter
Heh. In the words of Brian:
So true. So, so true.
KC
I’m glad I missed these hearings. Frankly, they sound like an embarrassment for our country. I guess I couldn’t have chosen a better time to have sinus surgery.
Sojourner
Twist away, Stormy. Your tail is in a knot over Kennedy’s actions of 30 years ago (pertaining to one person) and freaking hysterical over a white Republican wife who cried. Not died, cried.
Yet you cheer on your lying president whose actions have killed thousands. Whose policies have increased the number of people below the poverty level and children with no health insurance.
How pathetic are you? I mean, really? Are you that twisted that you have no clue how idiotic you look?
Or are you just drunk as usual?
I’m beginning to feel embarrassed just reading your rants.
Good grief, talk about a total lack of perspective. You really have no clue, do you?
DANEgerus
They implied John Cole is… ‘the Angry Left’…
[snickers][snorts]…
Oh… and Kennedy’s fishing expedition is best criticized by Tiger Hawk on TBOTW today who wrote:
Senator Kennedy took the scary position that it was just and appropriate for the Congress to extract by coercion the private, internal records of a political advocacy group just because it was considering the nomination of a person who had once been a member of that organization.
To understand how weird this is, consider the following “thought experiment”: If the next Democratic SCOTUS nominee once belonged to the American Civil Liberties Union(as Ruth Bader Ginsburg actually did) and, say, Sam Brownback proposed issuing a subpoena for the “records” of the ACLU to help him “understand” the nominee’s testimony, what do you imagine the reaction of the mainstream media might be? The implications of Senator Kennedy’s demand for freedom of speech and association are appalling. Where’s the outrage?
Who cries for Mary Jo Kopechne?
Vladi G
Vern may very well be the stupidest person on the face of the earth. I haven’t seen this much projection since film day in the third grade.
Wow, Brian just called the first lady a murderer.
Brian
Who died and appointed you center of the universe?
We have been presenting rational arguments. You don’t want to hear them. You guys always respond with anger and epithets. I guess we can keep tailoring our language and ideas until you are comfortable with them, but most people will stick to their principles and not bow to your lead.
On another note, you’re mischaracterizing my comments from yesterday re abortion. But you don’t want to make it an issue, so I won’t.
Davebo
At a minimum Stormy and of course John’s new boss.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Well scs was addressing me and you followed up with your so true, so so true line.
Frankly, while you seems more intelligent than Stormy, your logic is just about as bad as hers most of the time.
I don’t even bother with your arguments. There is no point. I’m not going to change my mind, you’re obviously just a partisan Republican. I’m more interested in debating with people like John.
The Disenfranchised Voter
*seem
The Disenfranchised Voter
damnit!
*change your mind
Davebo
Hey, while we’re just ranting deliriously anyway..
Who would win a chain link match between Cindy Sheehan and a live Mary Jo Kopechne?
I’m guessing Sheehan based purely on the fact that Mary Joe seemed a bit slow in reaction time…
Perry Como
OMG, you owe me a new keyboard.
Vern Snyder
Steve,
Oh, I’M not crying. I’d have to say I feel more like a combination between pity and laughter. Pity because you people can’t take it when your own logic[?] is thrown right back in your face and you have to lie, distort or block anyone else to make yourselves look credible. We used to do that—when we were FIVE YERS OLD!!
Looks to me like ONE of us outgrew it and the other one is still playing this little kiddy games. That’s the reason for the pity. The laughter is because you’re actually too arogant to see and admit your own complete loss of critical thinking. Anytime I question my own intelligence I have only to read your material and I KNOW I must be approaching Genius status.
That’s O.K. Someday YOU may grow up too.
BTW, the “havoc” goes WAY beyond 8 years. Try more like 40 years of cutting Defense and expanding social spending EXPONENTIALLY. Then when we NEEDED Defense and the current and future money was already spent we’re left with only TWO choices; Raise taxes which I know you love, or file it off to the deficit. You guys only accept the second option grudgingly because you can use that tired old “On his watch” crap again. O.K. Economic Einstein. Let’s try the old CAUSE-AND-EFFECT concept again. What EXACTLY did President Bush do to cause the deficit? (Can’t claim tax cuts because that brought in higher revenues.) Come on now. Try just once to get away from your robotic talking points and think this one through all by yourself.
Good luck.
Ancient Purple
It didn’t go well for you.
You still ignore the fact that Illinois has a trigger law, trying to explain it away by saying that the law will change.
I set out a specific situation where changing the law could take years and you conveniently ignored it.
But not to worry, Brian. When a woman you care for (be it a mother, aunt, girlfriend or wife) gets raped and can’t get an abortion, I am sure you will remind them that the law being changed is just around the corner.
Krista
Oh for the love of all that’s holy! WHO FREAKIN’ CARES why she cried? Maybe it was ’cause of the Dems, maybe it was ’cause of the Repubs, maybe someone she knew died recently, maybe she was remembering a sad song from her youth, maybe she had a toothache, maybe she doesn’t like John’s skirt, maybe the elastic from her panties got caught in her pubes! It DOES NOT MATTER.
What matters is whether or not Alito is qualified and fit to sit on the Supreme Court. The American people need to find that out, for the sake of their own futures. I don’t care if the Missus falls down and starts speaking in tongues, if Teddy Kennedy takes his pants off, or if Schumer starts running around poking people in the belly while going, “Hee hee!” Some tough questions need to be asked of this man, and you guys deserve some straight answers, and nothing should distract from that.
Davebo
Wow! We actually cut defense spending? And we’ve been doing it for forty years!
Damn I miss Vietnam!
Otto Man
Actually, if you had sinus surgery, you’ve pretty much captured the experience all the same.
Ancient Purple
For the love of Christ, Krista, STOP BEING SO DAMN RATIONAL AND LOGICAL.
Davebo
Now Krista,
Why do you want to rain on our parade with a bunch of logic?
NEW RULE: If at any time during a confirmation hearing a relative of the nominee should begin crying and be forced to leave the room said confirmation hearing will be adjourned and the nominee shall be approved through unanimous consent.
Note: If the crying does not force the family member to actually leave the room then the judicial committee shall draw straws and the two members with the shortest straws shall be removed as US Senators and forced to start over as House Representatives for the District of Columbia.
Vern Snyder
Well Vlad, I guess you haven’t seen a miror in a LONG time. Mabe when you get old enough your mommy & daddy will let you use theirs.
Vladi G
Maybe she was a House of Freaks fan.
Vladi G
Umm, yeah, that makes no sense. Good effort, though.
Otto Man
In case you’re wondering how the fair-and-balanced people at Faux News are treating the Perils of Martha-Ann Bomgardner, check out this screen capture over at Crooks and Liars.
The caption is both relevant and subtle: “Will Vicious Dems Pay for Driving Alito’s Wife to Tears?”
jg
I’m telling you it was the picture of the little girl and the cat that John posted just before she started crying.
neil
I don’t remember Sen. Kennedy claiming Alito had a black baby, and I don’t remember Sen. Schumer testifying that Alito snapped under pressure in a Vietnamese POW camp and sold out America, and I don’t remember Sen. Feinstein stating that Alito shot himself to get out of the VietNam war, but did they say some nasty things? Sure.
I love it when you throw us dems a bone! Good job standing up for yourself against the pricks…
jg
Will conservatives allow themselves to be played so easily?
Film at 11.
LITBMueller
I wonder if this whole discussion and situation could get any sillier?
[cue dream sequence music]
BLITZER: Coming up…in the Situation Room….Word from the White House is that Judge Alito has come away from the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings with a severe case of irritable bowl syndrome. We will have film documenting the Judge’s gastrointestinal suffering, and joining us will be Senators Biden and Graham to discuss what may have caused his problems. Stay tuned…
….
BLITZER: Senator Biden, was it the relentless Democratic questioning that cause the Judge to have an upset stomach?
BIDEN: Certainly not, Wolf. In fact, I reviewed CSPAN footage and noticed that the sounds of flatulence could be heard coming from Judge Alito at the time that Senator Graham was questioning him. I’m sure that…
GRAHAM: Now, hold on a minute! Wolf, first of all, just because the judge got gas while I was talking doesn’t mean that it was my fault that he is having bowel trouble now! Plus, how do we even know for sure that the….uhhh….bottom burps that Senator Biden allegedly heard came from Judge Alito?
BLITZER: Do you have any proof Senator Biden?
BIDEN: Well, yes, I do. Take a look at the video, Wolf. You’ll notice that the flatulent noises are directly followed by Mrs. Alito’s tears!
GRAHAM: Oh, so now yer sayin’ that it was Alito’s fart that made her cry?!??! Wolf, this is ludicrous!
BLITZER: Actually, Senator Graham, our producers are checking the video tape of the hearings for evidence, so we’ll know soon enough!!!
Vern Snyder
Davebo,
“Cut” as in our current government’s definition which is to say “lower the increase”. I believe ALL the economic history from OMB and any other UNbiased reputible source will back me up that by any measure, if you split the U.S. budget into TWO categories—Defense, and Other—you’ll find Defense has gone up slightly and then back down, especially as a % of GNP. But “Other” never received the same “cuts”. So BOTH parties have jacked that up.
Remember, I said try and do some homework and use some critical thinking. I know it’s tough. Remember, even Jim Jones’ fallowers couldn’t seem to refuse the kool-aid so I don’t give you much hope.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Well maybe if we didn’t try to police the world or continue to develop more nukes (that we dont even need) we wouldn’t have to worry about cutting the defense budget.
Any traditional conservative would cut the so-called “defense” budget if they were in office.
In fact, the Defense budget could be cut in HALF and we would still spend more money on defense than any other country in the entire world.
John Cole
Everyone behave. I just deletedabout 20 comments in the whole SCS/DEV/Stomry flare-up. Nor more of that, please.
Vern Snyder
Vlad,
It was in reference to your earlier post about “projection”. Whay am I not suprised that a lib can’t keep track of what they say from one post to the next.
Go ahead, keep proving my point for me. This IS entertainment!!
Krista
Sorry…
As you were.
Krista
By the way, John. I like your skirt. :)
I’m proud of you for sticking to your guns on this one.
The Disenfranchised Voter
No worry. I’m not ever addressing that “thing” again.
Davebo
Indeed Vernon (I won’t call you Vern because it sounds insulting to me).
Tell you what, while you’re talking about “critical thinking” and “homework” why don’t you google who coined the term “peace dividend” and then get back to us OK?
You’ll love it, it was the same guy who initiated the Branch Davidian investigation and sent troops into Somalia!
Joey
My thoughts exactly. She cried. Okay. Nobody cares, or at least should care. It’s amazing how quickly an incredibly unimportant detail can become such a massive issues. Does anybody here really, truly, honestly give a damn why she was crying? If you do, get a hobby.
Davebo
Indeed! Personally I enjoy collecting foreign tennis balls and knitting humorous cumberbuns.
Ancient Purple
Canadians. /grumble
:o)
Vladi G
I knew what it was in reference to. And it still makes no sense. Keep trying, though. Hell, eventually your bound to make sense just by accident.
Ancient Purple
You crazy mad man you.
The Disenfranchised Voter
For me, and others, the issue that she cried is irrelevant. What pissed me off was the rampant dishonesty on the blogs and the misleading news reports.
Vern Snyder
Dis,
As I said, where’s your FACTS. Not talking points. Let’s see, “Policing”. You mean like Bosnia? Kosavo?
Just over 60% of Clinton’s “smaller government” came right out of DoD at a time when we needed it the most. I believe the quote our Intelligence Officer used was, “It’s better to have a KNOWN enemy than an UNKNOWN one.” He said that 10 years prior to 9/11 knowing that if we dropped out guard we’d get smacked. Well, as predicted, the libs SPENT the “Peace Dividend”, Clinton raped the Intelligence gathering capabilities and we got smacked.
I challenge you to read, “ereliction Of Duty” by Paterson. Almost every liberal friend of mine that read it said Clinton should have been impeached on leaving the country defenseless, NOT for Monika Lewinski.
Come on now. I keep saying it and you’re still not getting it. Homework and CRITICAL THINKING. Put those two together and the Democratic Party ceases to exist.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Yes, I do.
That surprised ya didn’t it?
I’m not a Dem, Vern, and I’m certainly not a liberal.
Vern Snyder
Vlad,
Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot. To make sense to a liberal you have to speak Liberal-eese. That means being a “parrothead” with Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and Babs telling me what to say. I guess if I did that then you would say I’m “making sense”.
My favorite quote lately is this:
If the only way to support your position is to to twist, spin, lie about or outright BAN an opposing position then there’s a problem with YOUR position.
(For you simple minded ones, that means an intelligent person can entertain MORE than one opinion, give credit where it is do and think critically for themselves. If they don’t have PROOF of something they can research it with other—sometimes opposing—sources and come to a more knowledgeable position. I don’t see that happening here.)
jg
finally someone had the balls to clearly state the republican agenda. Total control. Don’t do something well to achieve it though. Gain it by default by convincing the gullible heartland that dems are evil.
jg
All you gotta do is make reasoned arguments and NOT assume the political persuasion (or even care) that the other person might have. Assuming ‘liberal’ and pulling out the Coulter handbook is the way to dismiss the arguments of a liberal and stay on message. Thats how to get a liberal to ignore you which is most likely what you really want anyway.
Zifnab
To paraphrase The Boondocks “You see, you’ve got your KNOWN KNOWNS and your KNOWN UNKNOWNS. And this is the stuff you know you know and the stuff you know you don’t know. But then you’ve got your UNKNOWN UNKNOWNS, the stuff you don’t know that you don’t know. … … … The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absense!”
From what I’ve read, Clinton left our country weaker with his policies than we would have had we reserved our troops at home. However, as the commander-in-chief he has the authority to command the armed forces as he sees fit. His policies may have been risky or unsound – which is inevitably more a matter of opinion, we didn’t get 9/11’ed on Clinton’s watch – but it was hardly impeachable.
The Monika Lewinski thing at least tried to catch Clinton committing perjury, which while actually illegal was politically a massive waste of political capital, government resources, and time.
Brian
Fine, I’ll answer your hypothetical. (The law may be real, but your “sky is falling” scenario is not.)
If Roe were overturned, and the issue fell to the states, it is possible that some states (not all) would trigger anti-abortion legislation, or have it written if it didn’t exist already. Blue states we don’t have to worry about, as they would keep it legal. Some Red states we would have to worry about, mostly in the South and in Utah, I suspect. The rest would fight it out internally and the majority would rule, which favors legalized abortion.
Back to the anti-abortion Red states. Even here, state courts sympathetic to individual rights may overturn the state legislatures to keep abortion legal.
Let’s face it, it would be a chaotic period post-Roe. But I have faith that Ilinois would be safe, and that the country in general would be as well because abortion is a battle that has been fought and settled, with the exception of the radical Right, which only the radical Right takes seriously, in addition to certain pandering GOP politicians. These politicians would have to answer now to the majority that favors the freedom of abortion, and therefore would suffer a severe backlash from this constituency. The fundamentalists would not have a hope, but maybe the moderate pro-lifers would finally get to have their voice heard.
Roe, as I stated before, has only served to polarize the topic, and it has been kept front-and-center in politics by the Dem’s who need it as a wedge issue against the Right. We have more important issues concerning our society: immigration, health care, national security, affirmative action, foreign relations.
Abortion is settled law, and I’d be surprised if Roe is ever overturned, even if it should be. But it’s been fun playing your hypothetical.
Krista
Brian, methinks you posted this on the wrong thread.
Andrei
This comment is truly priceless:
I’d claim it was another DougJ spoof, but it breaks the word count pattern. Has DougJ wised up to a new model?
Anyways…
I find the comment classic because not only did John make it very clear in the original post update that was going on to this whole non-story Ms. Alito crying episode as expressed in the Drudge headline followed a classic logical fallacy — post hoc, ergo propter hoc — Vern’s logic doesn’t even make sense consistent with it’s own premise.
The libs modus operandi is to create a big mess then make sure to blame someone else for that mess, which means that if John Kerry presides over a period of time where abortions occur, using libs own logic they’d all blame Kerry?
LMAO.
I need to print this one out. It’s so fucking classic as a prime example of idiocy run rampant. The all caps is just icing.
Andrei
But that begs the question if the issue is indeed a state issue at its core. The moment a 16 year old girl cross state lines to get a legal abortion in another state, it would bubble right back up to the federal level and we’d be right back where we are now, I would think.
It’s as prickly as the gay marriage issue. If a gay couple is recognized in Massachusetts as being married, shouldn’t Utah have to recognize that legally?
I generally agree that if Roe was overturned, it wouldn’t be the end of the world, but I think the “passing it back to the states as a state’s issue” line of thinking really misses the mark on where this issue is focused.
Andrei
“The all caps is just icing.”
Ugh… I’m channeling DV today…
The all caps *are* just icing.
srv
See, it’s not DougJ. DougJ would have said “erection of Duty”
Brian
Youthinks incorrectly. I was responding to a direct question within this thread.
Ancient Purple
So, while all of that is being settled, a rapist impregnates his victim in a state where abortion is illegal.
Again, you mantra is, “Well, just wait. It will all work out in the wash. Wait for the coming backlash and then you can have your abortion.”
Great. Let’s just hope it all gets settled before the third trimester.
Compassionate conservatism at its finest.
Barbar
Brian, I asked you this in the other thread: why aren’t you advocating for a Constitutional Amendment to legalize abortion? If everything you claim to believe about the abortion debate is true, this should be a slam dunk for you and it would make everyone happy, right?
SeesThroughIt
Vern–for somebody who claims to be a genius, you sure have lousy spelling and grammar, neither of which require that powerful of an intellect to get right.
Also, you’re aware that Bush has created the largest deficit in history, yes? Or is such knowledge beyond the grasp of even a “genius” (tongue practically protruding through cheek) as yourself? But hey, don’t take my word for it. Here’s bipartisan budget anxiety. Or, if you prefer, you can get it from the nonpartisan Comptroller General of the United States.
Thanks for calling, though, Vern. Good luck trying to look down your nose at people in the future. It hasn’t worked out so well for you, but there’s always hope for tomorrow, right? (PS: If you are DougJ…good job!)
Krista
Ah, sorry. It just seemed out of context, and I didn’t realize that topic was still ongoing. I thought you were carrying our previous discussion and had accidentally posted it on this thread, where it seemed so seamless from our previous discussion.
Anyway, carry on.
Krista
(Backs away gingerly…)
The Disenfranchised Voter
I hate to see you go, but I love watching you leave…
;)
ppGaz
It means essentially whatever the Senate rules say it means, not what you say it means.
The Senate makes its own rules.
Brian
Who is this rape victim you’re so worried about? Talk about the tail wagging the dog. How about if Roe were overturned, but was kept in place for a period of time, say 1 year, so that states could come up with their own law through the democratic process? We can play these hypotheticals all day long.
Sure, I suppose. I’m no Con-Law scholar like you, but I would support an amendment to the constitution if it can get throughthe rigorous democratic process that it entails. The reason it’s so infrequently done is because it is so difficult.
But sure, knock yourself out…….get an abortion amendment to the Constitution. Will it be restricted to the 1st trimester?, the 2nd?, unrestricted? Will it define when a fetus is a human being? Will the father have any say at any time, since it’s his DNA? If so, will it only be when there’s no incest or rape? Should age be a determinant in any way? If a woman is pregnant with triplets, should she be able to selectively abort one of the children (or fetus)?[this situation has occured] What if the fetus is in the 3rd trimester, but has Down’s Syndrome, should abortion be allowed then?
Slam dunk easy, isn’t it? Of course, let’s not forget that Illinois rape victim. (who is she again?)
ppGaz
I’d say you know less about that than you think you do.
The excellent reporter, Bill Kurtis, did an exhaustive investigative look at the case and came to this conclusion:
Kennedy was not in the car when it went into the water. He had left the girl to go off by herself in the car, and lied about this later, mistakenly believing 9or having been talked into believing, by his buddies) that he’d look worse if it appeared that he did not himself drive the girl to her destination. This solution not only explains the ten hour gap during which he was seen, neither wet nor upset, a short time after the accident apparently happened. It also explained some other facts which never fit together exactly if one tried to assume Kennedy in the car.
Because Kurtis’ solution is the only one I’ve ever seen that handled all the loose ends in the story, and because it is more plausible than the poplarly believed one, I am inclined to believe it.
I’m pretty sure that this material was broadcast under the title Investigative Reports with Bill Kurtis, several years ago.
Bob In Pacifica
She cried because she came to the realization that she was married to a bigot.
Bruce Moomaw
This is tempest-in-a-teapot time. Of course, she was crying because of the Democrats’ attacks, even though she did so during a retelling of them by Graham rather than during the original. The only important question is whether there is any SUBSTANCE to the Democrats’ attacks, dammit. On that I reserve judgment, but I do find it interesting — if Alito was as peripherally involved with, and uninformed about, the organization as he claims — that he felt it worthwhile to stick it on his resume to Reagan.
Vern Snyder
First let me appologize for the spelling. I I happen to be using a laptop with some sticky keys. I usually run it through MS Word Spell/Grammar Checker but in the interest of expediency I’ve skipped that step. However, if you think misspelling a word or two makes someone’s position totally invalid then who is playing “genius” and “looking down their nose” at who?
Sees,
No one will argue there is a deficit. But deficits, try to stay with me now, have MORE tan one factor; there’s INCOME and OUTGO to put it in simple terms. If you don’t have enough of the first ya probably shoud do a litle less of the second. Would someone on this post care to show me ONE example—JUST ONE—where a Democrat during the Clinton or Carter years (when we had 20% inflation) when the Congress was Democratically controlled that the word “deficit” ever came up? I didn’t think so.
I ran the numbers on my own once. There are 3 entities that control the budget in this country; the Senate, the House and the Presient. I mapped those 3 entities for the last 40 years as which party controlled 2 of those 3. Then I also ran budget numbers from OMB but you can us any YOU want as long as you use the same for both to keep it consistent. As I said, I split it into “Defense” and “Other”. It was obvious that whenever the Dems controlled the budget, Defense spending went down and social spending went up. When the Reps controlled it, Defense went up and Other went up, but slightly less. SO while Defense has waivered up & down, Social Spending has skyrocketted.
Now, if you hand a credit card to a teenager and dump a bunch of money into the account I’m sure you could claim that HE hasn’t generated any debt. But lets say he’s a normal teenager and spends up to the limit. And then someone breaks into your house and destroys your property so you decide to install a protective system. But wait. There’s no more money in the account. So what do you do? Leave your house unguarded? Or install the system and incur the debt? And if you do, exactly WHO CAUSED THE DEBT??? THAT’S what I mean. You can’t just lay it on the guy receiving the bills or what YOU already spent. I guess you can in YOUR logic, but I challenge you to run your household that way & see how long you last.
And 9/11 took more than 8 months to plan and carry out. Those teams were stup probably beore Clinton took over. It was just HIS raping of the programs we needed to detect and stop it that allowed it to happen. If you wan to lay that on President Bush then you should head on down to the Pentagon as an advisor. ‘Cause you’re obviously a “genius” at pulling off an operation that size in 10 months.
But, again, not ONE of you has ever laid out the CAUSE-AND-EFFECT of your arguments. You’re like that comic my wife likes about the scientists looking at these massive formulas on a board and in the middle it says, “And then a miracle happens”. Only in YOUR case in the middle it says, “It was on HIS watch”. All you’ve done is show your ignorance of timelines, economics and pretty much everything else you are all claiming to be “Geniuses” about while using that term for personal destruction.
Bruce Moomaw
Regarding Alito’s resume, Brad Delong has a new entry quoting another blogger:
“This is genuinely weird:
” ‘This Is a Defense of Alito?: I admit I haven’t been following every twist and turn of the issue of Alito’s membership in Concerned Alumni of Princeton (CAP), but I really don’t understand Arlen Specter’s point here:
” ‘ “Judge Alito’s name never appeared in any document,” Specter said. “It was not mentioned in any letters to or from the group’s founder or executive director, did not appear on any canceled checks for subscriptions, was nowhere to be found on any articles, lists of board members or contributors, and was not in any minutes or attendance records from CAP meetings,” Specter said.
” ‘He quoted CAP founder William Rusher as saying: “I have no recollection of Samuel Alito at all. He certainly was not very heavily involved in CAP, if at all.”
” ‘Is the Republican position now that Alito was never a member of CAP at all, but just lied about being a member when he was applying for a job in the Reagan Justice Department?’
“In a word, yes. The Republican line-of-the-day is essentially that he badly needed right-wing street cred, and claiming membership in CAP was a way to do that. Now, of course, Alito badly needs centrist street cred.”
Yep. Alito wasn’t actually a bigot; he just played one when he thought it was necessary to get a job in the Reagan White House.
Andrei
Good lord that Vern is a keeper, John. He’ll add to your page views far more than Darrell could ever dream.
CaseyL
It looks like nobody’s posted this tidbit from Time yet:
Gosh, it’s almost as if they had the bulletin ready to go, as if they were…expecting her to cry!
How is that possible?
Well, let’s take a little look at “Creative Response Concepts, a conservative public relations firm”:
Why, it’s the SwiftBoats gang of agitprop liars!
Mrs. Alito didn’t cry because of anything Kennedy said. She didn’t cry because of anything Graham said.
She burst into tears and left the Chamber in distress because it was just another little piece of Right Wing theater.
Staged, that is.
Fake, that is.
As fake, false, and mendacious as everything else about the Right.
Ancient Purple
Once again, Brian just wants us to all hope for the best that it will all work out in the end. No guarantees, of course, but, hey, the Court might allow abortions for a year after their ruling or the states might allow abortions in the case of rape or they might allow poor women to go to another state.
If it doesn’t, well, what does it all mean to Brian anyway? He can’t get pregnant if raped.
Shalimar
She started crying after meeting President Bush in the White House when her husband was nominated. Sure, that meeting was months ago, but Bush is a scary dude so I’m sure there is some cause and effect there. Delayed reaction and all of that.
SeesThroughIt
Ah, Vern. Whatever are we going to do with you?
1) I never claimed your grammatical gaffes disqualified your argument. Nice try, though. I simply pointed them out because you were prattling about your supposedly mighty intellect while making basic errors in grammar, which struck me as rather funny.
2) While we’re hovering around the “genius” issue, note that you’re the only one in this thread claiming to be a genius–while your posts strongly indicate otherwise.
3) For all your singing and dancing about a teenager running up credit card debt and trying to buy an alarm system and blah blah blah, you fail to notice you hoisted yourself on your own petard. Republicans have had control of the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives for the past five years. And over the past five years, the defecit has hit astronomic levels. Levels heretofore never seen. Those are your guys, Vern. Or do you want to blame Clinton for their actions?
4) Yes, defecits are a function of income and spending. Which is why Bush and his buddies have screwed us so hard. They preached against “tax and spend Democrats,” implying that they themselves would keep both taxes and spending low. Which would be fine. But instead, we’ve gotten “don’t tax, but keep on spending,” which has shot the defecit through the roof, the ceiling of the building, and the stratosphere. Cause, meet effect. Again, this is your Republicans doing this. Or are you ignorant to timelines as well as cause and effect, Vern?
5) As I first noted, nonpartisans like the Comptroller General of the United States and even right-wing partisans like the Heritage Foundation are incredibly worried. Bush’s agenda of cutting taxes (and making those cuts permanent) while continuing to spend like it’s going out of style could very well bankrupt America. Perhaps you think it’s OK to do that, but I don’t. Cause, I’d like to reintroduce you to effect.
Good luck with your homework, Vern. You apparently need it.
The Other Steve
That’s interesting. I’ve never really heard the full story, and I might have to look into that.
This is the primary difference between moonbats and reasonable people. The conservative moonbats start with a belief, and then go looking for facts to try to validate their belief.(in this case that Ted killed this woman in cold blood by pushing her into the lake while holding his hand over her mouth so she couldn’t scream)
Reasonable people on the other hand go looking for facts, and if something doesn’t add up they go looking for more facts to try to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.
As I said before, I can’t stand Kennedy and think he’s a pompous ass along with his whole family. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to stand idoly by and let people smear a man just because he’s a popular Senator.
nyrev
Yet.
Who knows what could happen if those libreral activist judges don’t keep the gays from a’marryin’.
Krista
Stop looking at my ass.
:)
Brian
A. Purple,
If that is the best response you can come up with to my comments on the topic, then it’s pretty clear that I’ve won the argument.
Every response I come up with only gets responded with more hypotheticals, more fear of what will happen to unknown and anonymous “victims”, or more epithets directed at me. Fortunately for all of us, our laws are not written by the likes of you.
Brian
Good for YOU, Steve!!! Looking out for the little guy.
Thank goodness civilized society has you as its guardian of Truth!
Laura
If only it were just one rape victim. 1 in 6 women are sexually assaulted in this country. In college, that increases to 1 in 4. Just tonight, on my local news, they reported on a local fire fighter who confessed to molesting many of his daughters’ friends. But please, keep making cracks about the rape victim you think is merely a straw man. After all, none of your girfriends “live in fear of rape” so it can’t be a real issue, right? Thousands of women and girls are raped each year in this country. It’s estimated that annually, more than 32,000 vitims are impregnated by their attacker. Rape is real and it’s part of the equation in abortion rights. Pretending otherwise just makes you look like a heartless ass.
Sojourner
Actually, it appears that Brian is arguing that raped women don’t become pregnant.
I feel so sorry for his daughters to have such an insensitive moron for a father.
Krista
But it actually happens, Brian. Women get raped. Surely you can understand that this is something that actually happens. And if even one woman who was raped, who wants an abortion, is prevented from having one because of what a politician thinks, then that’s just plain wrong.
Good god, man…just for one brief moment, show some empathy, and imagine what it must feel like to have to endure 9 months with that child growing inside of you. Scared of that child and what she might become, because of the fact that her father is a monster. Reminded of your betrayal and violation with every kick, every gained pound, every physical change. Hating yourself, because you see other pregnant women on the street and feel like you are isolated and alone, that you are the monster, to bring something so wrong into the world. Fearing for your own sanity, because maternal instinct makes you desperately want to love this child, but you’re terrified that if you keep the child, you won’t be able to look at her or love her, or be good to her, because of the circumstances. Scared to give the child up for adoption, for fear of what you might be foisting upon an unwitting couple. Angry as hell, because you committed no crime, did nothing wrong, but you’re the one who has to suffer the consequences.
This happens, Brian. To real women. And there are politicians who DO NOT CARE. And some of those women live in states run by politicians like that. And you think it’ll all work itself out. I’m glad you have such faith, but I don’t. I never will.
demimondian
Offtopic, but…Andrei asks:
Yup, he has. In fact, for a few days, he was posting wonderful long five and six paragraph postings with carefully embedded blockquotes.
I’m just trying to figure out who he was making fun of.
Barbar
But sure, knock yourself out…….get an abortion amendment to the Constitution. Will it be restricted to the 1st trimester?, the 2nd?, unrestricted? Will it define when a fetus is a human being? Will the father have any say at any time, since it’s his DNA? If so, will it only be when there’s no incest or rape? Should age be a determinant in any way? If a woman is pregnant with triplets, should she be able to selectively abort one of the children (or fetus)?[this situation has occured] What if the fetus is in the 3rd trimester, but has Down’s Syndrome, should abortion be allowed then?
Slam dunk easy, isn’t it? Of course, let’s not forget that Illinois rape victim. (who is she again?)
Wow, that’s really complicated, maybe we should leave it to the individual women to decide in each particular case. OH wait, no you seem to have a better idea — let’s have 50 different state legislatures tackle this issue in their own way, that’s bound to be better. Your solution avoids all of these problems, right?
Dumb or dishonest? You’re doing a damn good job keeping me guessing.
Brian
Nice work, dude. I’m certain I’m operating on a higher plane than you are, thanks to that response. You try and jump to my level, but you just…..can’t…..quite…..reach me. As a result, your frustration reveals itself in such inane comments like what I quote here. You’re a loser.
Laura and Krista, I don’t deny that women get raped. My wife doesn’t deny it, and no other woman I know denies it. But should it dictate abortion law? How does Roe solve this problem? Obviously it doesn’t.
Abortion should be legal. I have not argued that it should not be. If you think politicians don’t give a damn, why do you think judges care any more?
Roe only retarded any progress that the abortion debate could have made had it remained in the public sphere, outside the courts. Even Justice Ginsburg has conceded as much.
Brian
See my comment to Sojourner. Ditto for you.
jg
I don’t know about Ginsberg but IIRC there’s an article in a recent issue of the Economist that takes the same position. An uber-liberal I work with mentioned that today.
scs
John said
John, I’m a little disappointed in this. I know you are probably trying to be fair here, but I think you end up being less than fair. You somehow imply that I or Stormy are equally to blame for DV’s swearing and abusive insults (ie calling Stormy a “stupid bitch” ). I only spoke up to defend Stormy, in what I thought was a measured way, from what I thought was verbally abusive treatment from DV. I have experienced almost as bad verbally abusive behavior on here at points and no one has spoken up for me on here, in fact others joined in, and you didn’t delete the posts. But instead, I go out on a limb this time to speak up for someone and instead of you leaving that there as a testament, you delete the posts. It’s almost like the lesson here is, pile on the bandwagon with vicious insults and that’s okay, but have a friend speak up for you, and that will be deleted. It doesn’t make sense to me.
scs
By the way, I don’t want to imply that no one ever has spoken up for me, as Stormy and some others have before, so I just wanted to clear that up.
Pooh
Brian you are my hero. I was never flexible enough to reach.
Pooh
Brian you are my hero. I was never flexible enough to reach.
Ancient Purple
And every response I make only gets responded to with how you are certain that everything will work out in the end.
As for “epithets,” that is a bit of a stretch. I said you can’t get pregnant if you were raped. I seriously doubt you have proof otherwise.
The Other Steve
Honestly, I agree with the position as well. That’s not the point of contention I have with Brian… it’s his willingness to behave like a moonbat and not respond like a rational adult to arguments.
The Other Steve
So are you going to respond to ppGaz and provide your alternative Chappamoonbat theory, or will you just keep repeating that story in the future hoping to score some cheap partisan points?
Pooh
I think Vegas took that game off the board, Steve.
Stormy70
None of my comments were deleted. Thank you for your support, though, scs. Just more of that liberal compassion for women coming to the forefront. My enjoymnet will come when Alito is confirmed and takes his place on the Supreme Court, despite the tizzy from some on the Moonbat fringe. And he’s young.
Krista
Stormy, from what I’ve read, this guy believes in unfettered executive power for the President. That might be fine if you happen to agree with the President and his/her stances and actions, but what if you don’t? Those checks and balances really need to be there.
Faux News
I heard the Dems (especially Kennedy) made the Baby Jebus and Terry Schaivo cry as well during the hearings!
Stormy70
Are you reading that only at lefty sites? They also call him a racist and a bigot.
The Dems bailed on the testimony of the judges Alito serves with, so excuse me if I don’t take their historonics seriously. Fienstein was the only Dem who stayed through the whole hearing. I trust the words of the judiciary before some ill-informed, lefty blogger any day of the week. The left lost the election, and they are just flailing about right now. Alito will be confirmed and the Dems are already responsible for firing the Republican base back up again. Way to go.
LITBMueller
I love how the abortion argument went into the wee hours of the morning! :)
But, here’s a prediction for you all:
The upper echelons of the GOP will never do anything that would cause Roe to be overturned.
And the reason is quite simple: it is the equivalent of a mega-sized Cash Cow. It gets people so riled up, on both sides, that they argue on blogs until 2 AM. There is a huge population in the “red states” that are single-issue voters – and abortion is their issue. Churches bus these people to the polls to get them to vote for the national GOP ticket. Thousands of dollars of donations are made by socially conservative, anti-abortion causes to the GOP in the hopes that, someday, they will get Roe overturned.
And it ain’t happened yet. And it ain’t gonna happen.
Just remember the first rule of human nature: those in power will do everything they can to keep that power.
Ever wonder why the President, knowing his own party controls the Senate, has not put up anything less than a stealth or near-stealth candidate for the SCOTUS? Oh, sure, the filibuster would come into play, but Frist could just pull the “nuclear” trigger!
Yet, the anti-abortion faithful get an “unknown”, a “partially unknown,” and the President’s personal lawyer as candidates for Justice of the SCOTUS.
Anyone who feels cheated, should feel cheated. But they should also realize that overturning Roe would be like a person cutting off their own leg – why do that?
BIRDZILLA
Take a whip to the demacratic donkey whip it whip it whip it till it crys uncle then whip it some more its a shameless rotten beast
HH
The problem here is that the story that the Associated Press, which blogosphere aside is far more influential than Drudge, wrote a story implying that Graham himself attacked Alito and this caused Mrs. Alito to cry… a totally inaccurate characterization. But this being the blogosphere, suddenly the way Drudge characterizes it is cause for great alarm and consternation… and this doesn’t exactly rank in the top 100 mischaracterized stories by Drudge.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Are you gonna pull a Mrs. Alito on us?
That isn’t how I took it.
Did you happen to think of the possiblity that Stormy deserved what I said to her, and you deserved what I said to you?
Oh no, that can’t be possible. What was I thinking? Silly me.
Otto Man
Parrotheads? So the leader of the vast left-wing conspiracy is … Jimmy Buffett?
Niels Jackson
John Cole is right on the trivial point that Alito’s wife began crying at the specific moment that Graham was speaking.
But so freaking what? No one can question that the real reason she was crying was because of the previous hours upon hours of Democratic attacks.
As Hugh Hewitt points out, “Yes, she cried during Graham’s questioning, but his contribution was the equivalent of a close friend asking, ‘Are you all right?’ after you’ve had a rough day. It just busted the dam.”
John Cole has no substantive response to this point. Instead, he’s making spurious charges of dishonesty even as to statements that are quite literally true — Alito’s wife was crying both because of and after Democratic attacks.
Krista
So what’s Feinstein saying, then? Even if she’s the only Dem who stayed, there must be transcripts, no? And regardless of testimony, is there not some sort of written record as to how he’s ruled in the past? I think that would be a much more objective guide than either his fellow judges, or media.
And I read it from Sidney Blumenthal, to answer your question. Disagree with him all you like, but I don’t think he can be dismissed as an ill-informed lefty blogger.
The Other Steve
There’s no problem here.
The only inaccuracy is the way you read the article. You want to believe… you really want to believe that the only reason she cried is because she was hurt by Democrats.
You’ve totally discounted the other two theories.
#1. That she cried because Graham was praising her husband.
#2. That she had an onion in her purse, and Graham cued her to cry so she could run out into the hall way where Creative Responses, Inc. was waiting with a press release to hand out talking about her crying episode and blaming it on those mean Democrats.
And it’s becoming well established that theory #2 is the correct one.
Ben
Hey… maybe she just cried because it’s a stressful experience… and things got a little rougher than she expected… and she has a tendancy to cry. Maybe nothing the Dems said was all that bad…
Things like these hearings are SUPPOSED to be hard. This whole idea that it should just be some sort of free ride for Alito is stupid. And making a big deal out of a woman crying during a very long and stressful processes is equally stupid. Conspiracy or no.
Don Myers
Dudes, I know people who work 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week at shitty McJobs and are still below the povery line. You know what they cry about? Having to choose between paying the rent or their kid’s doctor bills. Not having the opportunities to lift themselves out of poverty. Listening to gang shoot-outs right outside their window.
As for the people of Iraq—-what do they have to cry about? 100,000 civilian deaths from foreign occupation with no end in sight. An Iran-friendly theocracy forming. A quagmire of death that will last for years, perhaps decades.
As for Ms. Alito and her fake crocodile tears—-Fuck her.
Fuck her and the horse she rode in on. Fuck her, the horse, and every delusional neo-con who thinks her fake tears are a reason to give this anti-choice, anti-individual rights, pro-corporate polluter, pro-imperial presidency judge to the high court.
Niels Jackson
Don Myers — Alito’s wife has nothing to do with Iraq, Iran, poverty, or your ingrown toenails. She’s not your personal punching bag for all that you believe is wrong with the world.
But hey, keep up the good attitude. Your liberal friends are sure to win elections with that kind of spirit!
Lawrence
Look at the company you’ve made for yourself, John. Congratulations.
nyrev
Niels Jackson — Alito’s wife also has nothing to do with the Supreme Court or Alito’s nomination to it. Did you actually watch the damn hearing? The questions have been cake so far. If Mrs. Alito cries that easily, she should have stayed home and sobbed over her soaps instead of creating a scene at what is supposedly a serious political event.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Whoa whoa, nyrev!
There is no need for such “hateful attacks” on Niels! You shouldn’t question his bullshit
You might make him–or god forbid his wife–shed a tear, and that is just unacceptable!
Lawrence
Follow up to JC, who wrote: “As I noted in the comments, no shit, and the headline could have read ‘ALITO WIFE LEAVES HEARING IN TEARS AFTER BREAKFAST.'”
Are you suggesting that she was crying about her breakfast? Maybe her eggs were a little underdone? No, you know better, so you should know how bogus your argument is here.
Then you write: “Jimmy- since you are having trouble with logic… I guess I am part of the ‘Angry Left’ now. Better than the dishonest right, which is where I would put BotW today.”
You appear to be having some trouble yourself. Taranto didn’t write that you are part of the Angry Left. He wrote that you were using Angry Left logic, which you are. Look around the comments here. Those are your fans. You can get mad at Taranto all you want, but he was just holding up the mirror.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Hello McFly? That was John’s point.
JC’s point was that even though it is technically correct, Drudge’s ridiculous headline is analogous to his ridiculous headline and it is.
Following your and Drudge’s logic on headlines we could say “Mr. Alito leaves in tears after Specter’s opening statements” and we would be right. I hope I don’t need to tell you how bad that logic is.
Drudge’s headline was misleading, dishonest, and a disgrace.
Lawrence
Apparently I have to spell it out for you, DV. She was crying about the disgusting treatment her husband was receiving from the Dems, not about her breakfast or Specter’s opening statement. They’re irrelevant to her crying. The Dems dispicable attacks on Alito were not irrelevant to her crying. Do you get it yet?
jg
Who gives a shit that she was crying? Aren’t we adults here? Is the story of Alito’s hearings going to be that his wife cried, not the issues involved? Are you that easily lead around by the GOP? You can be pushed off the real issue onto this cheap ass atttempt to paint the dems in an unflattering light?
She cried. Good lord. Grow up.
jobiuspublius
She left after I farted. The NSA has the evidance to prove it.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Lawrence
She did not cry when the Dems were so called “attacking” her. What triggered her to cry was Senator Graham’s question of are you a closet bigot?
If Graham never grandstanded and said the stupid shit he did, she would have never broke into tears.
Do you get it yet?
Lawrence
jg, her crying is what most people are going to remember about this confirmation. As for myself, I’ll remember how shamelessly Kennedy and Schumer smeared Alito, as will Justice Alito, most likely, when rendering decisions for the next 30 years.
Lawrence
My God. To have a rational debate with someone requires some minimal level of intelligence and good faith between the parties. You don’t have one or the other, DV. ‘Moving on’ now.
jobiuspublius
Hey, maybe the Alitos are having marital problems. Maybe she wishes she had married a Lindsey Graham. Maybe she wants to be a SCOTUS. Maybe, ………… Hmm, what time did she leave?
WIFE ALITO LEAVES IN TEARS AFTER 5AM
jobiuspublius
Ah, yes, closets …
The Disenfranchised Voter
Lawerence, I’ve been more than cordially with you.
But guess what, reasoning doesn’t work so I’ll try a different approach.
You’re a fucking moron. You cannot deny that is was Graham’s words that triggered her to break down unless you are delusional, which wouldn’t be a big fucking surprise anyway since the shit you’ve been spouting is so detached from all reality.
The Disenfranchised Voter
*cordial
Brian
Steve, I have been rational with you all along. But you wouldn’t know a rational adult if he punched you in the nose.
This is a more apt example of the “rational” company you keep…..
There…..doesn’t that feel more comforting to you?
Brian
Got get ‘im, homey! It’s what you do best.
jg
Because the media is making a federal case out of it and playing to your hatred of the dems. Grow up and realize that her crying doesn’t mean a thing and if you let it linger in your head there’s something wrong with you.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Brian…do you disagree with my claim that it was Graham’s words that actually triggered her to break into tears?
Lawrence
jg, I explicitly said it wasn’t what I am going to remember about these confirmation hearings. Looks like you lack one of the two neccessary components to a rational debate as well.
Grow up? If your party could do that you might not lose so many elections and have to watch the other side nominate its choice of judges. Good luck with that.
Lawrence
OK, DV, this is pure charity. I’m feeling sorry for you.
Yeah, Graham’s apology for the Democratic Senator’s attacks brought out her emotions, but it was the Dems attacks that created them. Isn’t this rather plain? She wouldn’t have cried at all (I know how important this is to jg) if the Dems hadn’t launched baseless and scurrilous attacks on her husband.
The Disenfranchised Voter
She didn’t cry when Graham apologized.
Check the video. She started to cry when Graham asked if Alito was a closet bigot.
Graham asking that caused her to cry.
End of story.
jg
It’s all you’ve talked about. You’re continuing the issue, making it a bigger deal that you say you think it is.
What party am I in? You can read the card in my wallet or are you making the assumption that I’m a democrat because I don’t think it matters that she cried? In fact I hope she’s still crying.
You think dems lose elections because they’re immature? Its becauase asshats like you can’t focus on real issues but get all caught up in meaningless shit like gay marriage amendments. Repubs find issues that make people agngry then spin them in a way that makes you blame the issue on democrats. The repubs have yet to fix an issue they blame on dems but they keep getting elected because a heartland full of high school dropouts who believe in common sense keep voting for a political party based on logical fallacies and issues that can’t be solved politically.
Lawrence
I can see DV’s spin on a defense attorney asking his client on the witness stand, “Did you murder the victim?” DV would claim the defense attorney accused his client of murder.
Please, this has devolved into the ridiculous. I shouldn’t have jumped back in. Have fun, boys.
Krista
Just for the heck of it, let’s say the Dems’ line of questioning did make her cry. Her crying is irrelevant to process of finding out if this guy is fit to make judicial decisions that will be affecting you guys for the next 35 years. That’s why we’re so annoyed right now. Any Supreme Court nominee SHOULD be put through the proverbial wringer in order to determine if they have any pre-existing biases that could affect their future judicial decisions. But because of one woman’s tears, they now can’t ask any tough questions without being vilified as heartless bastards.
Disgusting treatment? This guy is being nominated by a man who is known for granting very high-position apppointments to people who are known for their incompetence, their loyalty to the President, and their neo-con viewpoint. Why should the Dems (or any of us) trust that this guy will make decisions that benefit anybody besides Bush’s rich cronies?
scs
No one deserves verbally abusive, unhinged behavior for blogging their opinions. Did you ever consider that? I’m tired of people who try to justify their crappy behavior by saying someone “deserved it” and that it is no one’s else’s ‘business’. Sorry, but that is the common thought process of evil minds the world over. I hope you make an effort to grow out of that.
jg
Baseless in your opinion. I think its pretty important that he joined an organization, used his membership as a way to establish his conservative bona fides (which is telling enough about conservativism) then acted like he only did it to get the job abd anyway he wasn’t a part of the groups REAL agenda.
Now thats the kind of ethics that gets you a lifetime appointment to the highest court. Actually it doesn’t matter because if we ask about it his wife might cry and that will make us look bad to the heartland so we should just let everyone through no questions asked.
Either he’s a sexist/racist or he only pretended to be to establish himself as a conservative. Either way, Supreme Court Justice?
The Disenfranchised Voter
I am not saying the Dems questioning had nothing to do with her being upset. All I am saying is that the Dems questioning was not what caused her to break down and cry. It was, without a doubt, Graham’s question of whether Alito was a closet bigot that caused her to break into tears.
Anyone who disagrees is either dishonest or delusional.
Or legally blind.
Brian
Honestly, I only know what I’ve read about the story. I don’t want to see the vide, unless you think it will serve some purpose for me. For that I know the whole timeline, at least I think I do.
Let me agree with you here that Graham’s words triggered her emotional outburst. Well, if that’s the case then think of it as a metaphorical embrace of Ms. Alito (or whatever she calls herself). The participants have to sit where they are, Alito, Ms. Alito, and the senators. All Graham did was give her the opoprtunity, as though he were standing right next to her, to cry on his shoulder.
Is this all silly? Absolutely. Is it relevant to Alito’s suitability to the SCOTUS? Absolutely not. I want spouses to stop being used as backdrop, as props, for these hearings. It’s ridiculous.
But, that said, what did her crying, for whatever reason it was triggered, do for the overall process of these hearings? In my humble opinion, it supported any GOP strategy at play to make the Dem’s look like meanies, undermined the Democrats’ position that they are more compassionate and more to women than the GOP, and it derailed any interest from the public in what the Dem’s really wanted the focus to be on: CAP.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Not even “the most patently dishonest person on the planet”?
Well I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Frankly, I think someone who constantly lies and makes fun of the deaths of people purely for political points needs to grow up.
Apparantly you the use of “naughty” words is worse.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Well I can hardly disagree with that statement. I thank you for your quality post Brian. It was interesting reading your thoughts.
The Disenfranchised Voter
correction to two posts above…
*Apparently you think
Brian
More compassionate and more sympathetic to women
(I need to check my posts before posting)
Brian
BTW, just bookamrked your blog. I had never taken a look at it till now. I like that recent post on Cory Maye. That’s righteous indignance put to a good purpose.
Sojourner
It’s not at all clear what higher moral plane Brian thinks he’s on. He’s basically arguing that abortion should be left up to the voters decide, that each state will eventually legalize abortion, and we should not concern ourselves with rape victims who become pregnant.
Brian clearly has female friends who don’t remember the days when abortion was illegal and clearly are unaware of the current status of abortion access in this country.
As a result, he expresses opinions that are clearly without foundation and then turns around and insults people who are better education on this topic and also more likely to experience it as a real issue for themselves.
Brian is exactly the reason I don’t want voters making decisions about constitutional rights.
Krista
Exactly. It couldn’t have worked out better for the GOP, really. Which is probably why a lot of people feel that those tears were just a little too convenient. There’s no point in speculating about that, though…but it is a shame that it wound up upstaging the process at hand.
Brian
Let’s all think about how our great-grandchildren will think of this “SCOTUS nominee’s wife brought to tears” moment in our history.
They will laugh their asses off at our histrionics, at our utter pettiness at such irrelevant childsplay. I guess that’s what puts this in perspective for me. It all seems so juvenile. Not US here on this blog. I’m referring to the whole damned sideshow at the hearings.
John Cole
WTF is wrong with you people, including you, Lawrence. The only thing I have contended is that Drudge’s headline was bullshit.
You people have all lost your damned minds.
Sojourner
Well, the Repub base can do whatever they want. They can continue to support an administration that lies the country into a war with an endless death count and a price tag that is bankrupting the country. They can support an administration that cuts the benefits of the lower and middle classes in order to cut taxes for the very wealthy. They can continue to support an administration that puts cronyism over competence. They can continue to support an administration that fundamentally doesn’t believe in science to the detriment of the environment, medical research and the education of future generations. They can support a party that is rampant with corruption.
Yep, if I were you, Stormy, I’d be smugly sitting back and laughing as well. But a growing number of people are realizing what is happening. Too bad their tears don’t matter to you.
Krista
Hasn’t it already been pretty clearly established that most of us who post here are pretty much nutso?
The Disenfranchised Voter
Thank you. My indignance is usually righteous and right in general. Heh.
Barbar
Sojourner —
Brian doesn’t trust individual women to make decisions about abortion, because men should have more of a say.
Brian doesn’t trust the state legislatures to reach agreement on a Constitutional Amendment about abortion, because abortion is a complicated issue.
But Brian trusts each individual state legislature to pass the proper restrictions on abortion, because he believes in democracy and he’s a libertarian and everyone thinks abortion should be legal and he trusts the American people.
This is one of the most infuriatingly stupid bits of “reasoning” I’ve ever seen. But I think you can make sense of it if you step into another reality.
See, if you take the pro-lifers out of the abortion debate, and pretend that the debate is between vigilant pro-choice advocates and people who don’t really care, it makes more sense. If you don’t actually listen to what feminists are saying, but just get a vague sense that they’re finding some fault with men, it makes more sense. If you don’t think about the actual impacts of abortion laws, but think instead that they should reflect attitudes (“women should trust their husbands”), it makes more sense. If you think that statements like “I trust in the American people” are bogus rhetoric rather than genuine beliefs, it makes more sense.
OK the logic is still dumb as a bag of rocks but what can you do? Criticize Brian’s reasoning and all he’ll do is get a sense that you disagree with him, and since he believes in good things there must be something wrong with you. Obviously further progress is not possible.
Anyway, this is what really ticked me off about Alito — he figured the spousal notification law wasn’t a big burden because it didn’t impact most women. Of course, for the women that the law would actually affect, it would be a big burden — but who cares about them anyway?
Lawrence
I suppose I should respond to John.
Only if by “bullshit” you mean “accurate.” Sorry, but the tears came from the baseless insults her husband was enduring, not from Graham, not from Specter’s opening statement, not from what she had for breakfast, which is why your argument doesn’t hold much water.
I think we all agree the crying has nothing to do with Alito’s qualifications and has resulted in a distraction. But look at some of the comments in this thread questioning the timing, sincerity, etc. Any time something gives the Democratic Party a PR blackeye, they claim it was some type of hoax (usually by Rove or, in this case, Alito’s wife) perpetrated to make them look bad. It never dawns on them that they actually do look bad.
jg
Not everytime, only when its obvious.
Of course its a distraction and of course it was orchestrated. I’m not saying she cried on cue but once the river started flowing the wingnuts in the blogworld and at FOX jumped on it and it has been the issue of the hearings. Valid criticisms of this nominee are being called ‘baseless attacks’ and the proof is that his wife cried. Ridiculouos.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Lawerence, read all of John’s post next time because you obviously missed this part:
jobiuspublius
Maybe, she cried for not knowing where the salami was hiding, or ….?
a guy called larry
This whole crying incident reminds me of the time the girl from Kuwait sat in front of the Senate to tearily tell the story of her witnessing Saddam’s soldiers brutally taking a couple of hundred babies out of incubators, so the incubators could be hauled off to Baghdad, leaving the babies to die in the hallway.
However, there weren’t a hundred incubators in Kuwait, and she was the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the U.S.; she hadn’t been in Kuwait since before the invasion.
Hell of a good cry for the Senators, though.
Bachsman
From: Opinion Journal:
A very amusing dispute has broken out over just who made Martha Alito cry the other day. The proximate cause appears to have been Lindsey Graham’s apology for the Democrats’ smear campaign against her husband, as the New York Times explains:
“Are you really a closet bigot?” Mr. Graham asked [Judge Alito], at which point Mrs. Alito drew her hands to her face and left the hearing room weeping.
On Thursday, the judge’s sister Rosemary Alito said her sister-in law took Mr. Graham’s comments as they were intended, as a message of support.
“Martha understood them to be kind comments,” Ms. Alito said. “It was that expression of warmth, the feeling of support for Sam, that triggered an emotional response.”
Some journalists, however, are painting Graham as the heavy. Jennifer Brooks, a reporter for the News Journal of Wilmington, Del., wraps up a piece on home state senator Joe Biden as follows:
Biden still walked away from Wednesday’s hearing with better press than than his colleague, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who made Alito’s wife cry.
Martha-Ann Bomgardner left the hearing room in tears after Graham–in what was meant to be a friendly round of questioning–asked the nominee how he felt about Democrats implying that he was a “bigot.”
But this description CNN Capitol Hill correspondent Joe Johns offered on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees” was out-and-out dishonest (italicized dialogue is from video clips):
Johns: The topic, Alito’s one-time membership in an ultra- conservative group called Concerned Alumni of Princeton, known for opposing the admission of more women and minorities to the school.
The issue, whether the group’s records housed at the Library of Congress ought to be turned over to the committee. In the end, it all got resolved. Senate staff got to see the records and the mostly unremarkable confirmation hearing of Sam Alito droned on, until spectators were reawakened by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Graham was at it again with prosecutor tricks he learned in the military. He has this way of getting to the point.
Graham: Are you really a closet bigot?
Judge Alito: I’m not any kind of a bigot, I’m not.
Graham: No, sir, you’re not.
Johns: That was enough for Alito’s wife, Martha, to leave the room in tears. She later returned, and Graham apologized for the ordeal.
Graham: I am sorry that you have had to go through this.
In Johns’s telling, Graham made Mrs. Alito cry with his “prosecutor tricks” and then had to apologize to her. In fact, the apology was for the Democrats’ crude behavior, and it came before Mrs. Alito left the room. In a way, though, it’s heartening to see liberal journalists try to paint Republicans as villains, rather than defend Democratic villainy, which by now has been totally discredited.
———————–
You are all correct in that the act of crying was trivial. The main point of this whole fiasco is to try, just TRY and show how the left has to twist, spin and lie about even such trivial facts or ban them from public view in order to find ANY shred of support for their position. If no other opinion exists, like it hasn’t in public discourse for 40 years, then you walk away feeling right and righteous. But as some have pointed out here, when another opinion presents facts and positions contradictory to yours, you can chose one of 2 paths.
1. Look for ways to support your preconceived talking points by any means necessary, or
2. Do more honest reserach and possibly mend your opinion.
Which path are YOU choosing?
Now, those that are trying to point this out don’t expect any great epiphany to take place. Hell we don’t even expect ONE of you to say, O.K., MY sources are wrong or twisted. To do that your whole body of knowledge begins to crumble (as it currently is) because you finally realize you’ve built an entire generation of opinion on lies and distortions. That sort admission would truamatize you beyond belief. So that’s O.K. Go right on and B.S. yourselves. It really doesn’t effect us in the least. I always say the WORST person you can lie to is yourself.
I also learned when I was 5 years old that, once you’ve started lying, you only have 2 choices; 1. come clean and admit the truth, or 2. keep telling bigger and bigger lies to cover up the previous ones. Again, which path are you on?
Oh, BTW, as to “I don’t remember Sen. Kennedy claiming Alito had a black baby,”
Was there any truth to this?
“I don’t remember Sen. Schumer testifying that Alito snapped under pressure in a Vietnamese POW camp and sold out America,”
Was there any truth to this?
I don’t remember Sen. Feinstein stating that Alito shot himself to get out of the VietNam war,”
Was there any truth to this?
There’s a big difference in pointing out the true facts about someone and in making up istortions and inuendo just to smear someone. One is easily responded to and the other, no response is ever believed.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Thanks for posting that Bachsman.
The article has made me want to tune into AC 360 more often now.
Bachsman
Why am I not surprised that most on this site openly embrace—no CLING TO—patent dishonesty?
scs
Hmmm, I don’t know if you all noticed, but John deleted my post of my critique of him deleting my previous posts. He is on a mission here. Now if he deletes this one, we’ll know he means businesss.
scs
Oh never mind, my bad, it’s still there. I forgot that I wrote it last night instead of in the am.
The Disenfranchised Voter
cough, paranoid, cough
:P
Krista
Are you related to Darrell? Your m.o. is much the same. Just because someone does not agree with you, it does not mean that they are dishonest. It just means that they have a different viewpoint.
Many of us just happen to be of the viewpoint that the Dems had an obligation to the American people to question Alito, and question him well, because he’ll be making decisions that affect you for a damn long time, and because the President has a known history of nominating complete braying idiots to important posts. Did they go to far and get ugly? Probably. They’re not perfect – they’re politicians. Will this whole “crying” episode make them look worse than they actually were? Maybe. Will it distract from finding out as much as possible about Alito’s potential biases? Unfortunately, yes.
scarshapedstar
John, no power on earth will convince him you’re anything other than an objectively pro-Saddam Chamberlain/Fonda coward-traitor-communist. That’s how the game works.
skip
“rather than defend Democratic villainy”
Villiany! I endured rougher questioning during high school cross-examination debates. Let’s not turn Mrs. Alito into Jean d’Arc.
Then again, if all you are used to is Bush town hall meetings full of scrub-faced rubes, this must have looked like the Spanish Inquisition.
Sojourner
You’re right. Add one more element to your equation. He makes a big deal out of claiming that he has raised his daughters to be strong women, not victims. Which implies that bad things only happen to the weak. Another reality-less assumption that, if accepted, leads to bad legislation.
Thanks, Barbar.