By the way, in case you were wondering what you could actually do to help move the ball on LGBT issues that might be a touch more effective than screaming “just words” or flaming the administration for not issuing executive orders that will be rapidly over-turned as soon as a Republican takes office, go to this great diary at the GOS. There is a whole range of activities you can take part in that will actually make a difference.
Now granted, this involves actually expending time and energy, and will be nowhere near as exhilarating as writing hundreds of posts claiming that the DLC and Rahm Emmanuel hate progressives, and that Obama has let you down, or that moderates stole your bike, but it might actually be useful and sway the opinions of people that matter. Probably won’t get you on the top of memeorandum or an invite to PJTV to tell everyone how much Obama sucks, though, so make sure you have your priorities straight.
darksyde
Hehe, well said. And thanks for the link.
Omnes Omnibus
That stuff takes time and energy as well.
mcc
John, thanks much for the link! I hope someone finds this useful.
Sam Wilkinson
“Have my priorities straight,” huh? You would say that, you homophobic right-winger. That’s the appropriate response right?
The Bearded Blogger
Balloon Juice has a topic of the day, for the day
Cerberus
Thank you, yes!
Everyone on the east coast who can spare even a short weekend trip up to Maine would be greatly appreciated. Those of you on the west coast should consider a similar trip up to Washington. Yes, it looks in the bag, especially with all of the adorable seniors in the ads, but prop 8 looked in the bag too before the big mormon money bomb and it will come in both states same as the sun rises in the east.
Those who don’t want to leave the computer to help, the Ref 71 petition lists are about to be released to the public on court record. Anyone wanting to look for irregularities or other incriminating information would be well appreciated by organizations like Californians Against Hate.
And those living in say, less progressive states should be calling up their conservadem congresscritters in favor of INCLUSIVE ENDA and hell, a public option if you haven’t already been badgering them about that.
And if you are Andrew Sullivan, no one loves you, you “I don’t believe in hate crimes” asshole.
Also what’s the story with the hate crimes bill? Does anyone have a good link? Is it out of the Senate, approaching the Whire House? What?
John Cole
@Sam Wilkinson: Lol.
Michael
John, why do you want to persecute GLBT activists so?
You may as well have called them a bunch of drama queens who care only about one single selfish issue, you hurtful, hurtful thing, you.
geg6
I actually did the phone-banking thing this weekend for a couple hours. I have a friend very active with the local Courage Campaign people and he got me the information. Hell, I phone banked for days for Obama. The least I can do is a couple hours for all my gay friends and family.
The Bearded Blogger
@Michael: snark? please?
@Cerberus: I think prop 1 will fail, and I think it will be huge. I see a chain of dominoes finally falling the right way…
Rusty Nails
You can also send some money to the democratic opponent of Andy Pugno the “architect and Chief Legal Counsel for Proposition 8 in California” who is running for state Assembly in CA.
Remember that these tea baggers and Christian fundamentalists are working to change the system at the local level by trying to take over school boards and state governments.
Mnemosyne
@Cerberus:
It was in the bag until the No on 8 idiots decided that their campaign should consist of ads that basically said that it’s okay to hate gay people as long as you let them get married. The money from the Mormons didn’t help, but they wouldn’t have gotten very far if the No on 8 people hadn’t fucked up so badly and not even tried to recover until 2 weeks before the election.
Not that I’m bitter. ;-)
WyldPiratd
Obama isn’t going to change anything of any consequence no matter what a bunch of well-meaning pissant blog readers do or don’t do. The fix is in by the money boys that own him and the Congress.
Expect shit to get worse until it becomes intolerable (and we have a long way to go for that). Nothing will change until there are people in the street with pitchforks and firebombs.
Sid
Always nice to see straight (former?) republicans tell teh gays how to act. A 1st year psych student would see that there is obviously something a little deeper here for how often John feels the need to tell teh gay how to act.
Max
As an ill-informed, but very supportive of the cause straight, I have been following on Twitter – @ChrisGeidner and his blog LawDork.net. He has a lot of info re: LGBT issues and is the anti-Americablog.
I’ve learned a lot from reading him and recommend him to all BJ’ers.
General Winfield Stuck
If I knew where it twer, I would steal that sucker in a heartbeat and glue a ginormous plastice Unicorn to the handlebars.
GReynoldsCT00
@Sid:
and what is wrong with this: “There is a whole range of activities you can take part in that will actually make a difference.”
not a good way to act?
Gator90
Shorter Cole: Here are a few ways that you obnoxious gay activists can keep yourselves busy without annoying me. You’re welcome!!
The Bearded Blogger
@WyldPiratd: graaagh!
@Sid: umm….
1) Not all supporters of LGBT rights are gay
2) How the fuck is inviting people to act for gay rights considered anti-gay?
3) I’d like to tell know it all 1st year psych students that psychoanalize everything to theor convenience how to act:
shut up.
Dave
It should be said that the GLBT people are right on the merits. That said, “holding Obama’s feet to the fire” is the new “we’re fighting the war from our keyboards.”
PhoenixRising
John, has it occurred to you that there might be two kinds of gay people?
You spill a lot of ink on the 27%ers who whine for your attention, and the attention of progressives, who in general aren’t going to do the work for us in exchange for us putting on a show of helplessness.
Now, it’s okay with me for you to ignore the majority of us who don’t need your advice about how to work the political game–but I’m worried you may have an issue, the way you keep on with the beating. I don’t know how to break this to you, but: The horse is dead.
Real gay activists are annoyed by the same clowns you’re annoyed by, but we’re done hitting them with the stick ’cause they seem to like it. Also, we have a lot of work on our hands right now. Might want to think about getting off the dead horse too, unless you’re enjoying yourself…
That’s all I have time for. Got calls to Maine queued up.
The Bearded Blogger
@PhoenixRising: I think what most defines balloon juice (tims and dougs and lauras brilliant pieces not withstanding) is john cole’s cranky mocking of certain silly elements of the pubic sphere: puma’s, WATB lefties, glibertarians, redstate etc… while, yes, this post is the beating of a dead horse, it is also in keeping with this blog’s personality.
How meta was that?
Zandar
Moderate stole my bike!
JMC in the ATL
Thanks, John. It’s always nice to see allies pushing concrete actions somewhere between ‘blowing shit up’ and ‘whining from your keyboard.’ Growing up, I never thought I would see the day when hetero allies were actively involved in GLBT issues. It warms the heart.
Genine
Excellent post!
@Gator90: I think it’s time better spent than yelling at people who are on your side. But if someone thinks it’s better to yell and insult people who are already on your side, then go for it.
gnomedad
That’s OK. Barack Obama is my new bicycle.
Michael
@Bearded Dude
Its all just like Stonewall, all over again. The persecution is so persecutionaltastical…..
srv
Why am I not surprised you think most folks passionate about LGBT issues are sitting at their keyboards and don’t get out and do something? You obviously need to get out more, and meet some of these folks. They can juggle phones and type at the same time.
If High Broderism is Center-Right, I submit High Coleism is its’ intellectual peer on the Center-Left.
Mnemosyne
@Gator90:
My God, he recommended constructive action rather than whining! That monster!
anonevent
One question: So which of the 4! arrangements of the letters B,G,L, and T is this particular group known as? I’ve seen and used GLBT, but I also see LGBT. And I know this isn’t the most important thing, but I felt like using factoral in a post.
delk
Thanks John
Warren Terra
On Friday I found this Google Spreadsheet linked from this blog post, which lists the House sponsors of DADT repeal (179 Democrats and 1 Republican, as of Wednesday; a Benen post yesterday said there are now 181 sponsors). The list gives advice for whom to pressure in the House on DADT (tellingly, only 17 Republicans are listed as being worth the effort, and one of them has since come out against DADT repeal), and of course since it lists the sponsors, those who are so inclined could give them an attaboy.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
Chris Matthews was on Real Time with Bill Maher last Friday and he said folks have to write their congressperson. Matthews said that the most effective way to get their attention is to write an actual business letter with your name signed on the bottom. Even in the digital internet age nothing gets a congressperson’s attention as effectively as a signed business letter.
If you want to make a difference, ask folks to sit down in front of their favorite word processor and crank out a letter, sign it, stamp it and drop it in the mailbox. Not a form email or an internet petition, a real honest-to-god unique business letter from an individual.
Shawn in ShowMe
Anybody notice that we haven’t heard boo from Rick Warren ever since Obama “endorsed” him? It’s almost like the hullabaloo over Warren’s cameo was much ado about nothing.
twiffer
drive to maine during foliage season? are you nuts?
[grin]
anonevent
@srv: 80-20 rule, basically. While yes, 20% probably are commenting and calling, 80% of the people prefer yelling over action. Almost anything involving humans falls under the 80-20 rule. And the only reason I have ever seen a situation where 80-20 fails is because it should have been 90-10.
General Winfield Stuck
Cole hates all wanking equally is my impression. It’s his one redeeming virtue and why I stick around. And yes, I am a proud O-bot and when Obama serves out his term, I will become a Hillbot if Clinton runs, though I may have to stay drunk to do it, or a Warnerbot, or whoever runs on the dem ticket.
Unless I’m way wrong, this is what Cole and this blog is about. Of course, if Obama goes way off the reservation and starts acting like a wingnut, that could change. But we are nowhere near that, regardless of some wanking so on the left.
JMC in the ATL
@anonevent: There’s no real consensus between GLBT and LGBT. People coming up these days tend to use LGBT, but I came up in the late 80s and early 90s, and at that point it was GLB. So my fingers just automatically type GLBT, but at the ripe old age of 38 I’m probably approaching anachronism. ;)
Phoenix Woman
@PhoenixRising:
What Bearded Guy said, but you do make good points about the reason doers like you aren’t as visible as the look-at-meeeee crowd: It’s because you’re not in it for the ego rush.
I’d better stop now before I start a rant on why most modern protests and marches (not just gay-themed ones, and not just lefty ones) are at best ineffective and at worst harmful to the causes they would support. (Hint: Several polls have shown that, after a month-plus of teabagger protests in August and September, support for health care reform went up.)
Phoenix Woman
@General Winfield Stuck:
Same here. John Cole is that rare entity, a true and honest conservative. He’s not in it because he’s a racist, he’s in it because he really does believe in fiscal prudence — which he also understands is not the same thing as the GOP version, which is to spend shitloads on useless weapons systems and bupkis on anything that might benefit nonwhite Americans in some way.
Somewhere, Barry Goldwater (who spent his last years campaigning for gay rights and for Democrats) is no doubt looking down at John and saying “Well done, lad”.
Cat
How many of the linked activities must one do in order to be allowed access to the ‘talking stick’ to complain about promises not kept?
And is that number the same or less then the number needed to not have people accuse you of hurting the ‘movement’ if you do complain when its your turn to speak?
General Winfield Stuck
@Phoenix Woman:
They ain’t many around, that’s for sure. True conservative principles should have a place at the table to moderate the sometimes excesses of liberalism. Yin and Yang stuff and balanced politics. There once was some of that, but no more.
Phoenix Woman
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
Good idea. Letters to one’s hometown papers work well, too — newspaper readership, particularly of the big national papers, may be dropping, but the folks that read the editorial page are a) politically engaged and b) not yet familiar with blogs (or who have only seen the craptastic side thereof) and so might not have encountered the stuff you’re about to lay on them.
arguingwithsignposts
@Phoenix Woman:
I thought he was a DFH?
Cerberus
@anonevent:
Both. It’s also lgbtq, lgbtqia, and general “queer community”.
But more in depth, lgbt is more in vague in modern times, because that way it doesn’t seem to read like a list of groups from most privileged to least (gay men to trans people) that and lesbians are way more politically involved :-p
Glbt was the old order though so some still prefer, especially older queers and organizations that originated back then. These days it’s all pretty mixed. So the general rule is, if you see an alphabet soup that looks to be mostly consonants, it’s a gay thing.
Cerberus
@The Bearded Blogger:
Took me a while to notice your comment, but I agree. I believe No on 1 will succeed and will serve as a huge watershed moment where we no longer cower in fear at the threat of the bullshit “people voting on civil rights shit”.
Though I would say that actual moment was post-prop 8 when the gay community decided to start going on the offense and start being way more proactive about equal rights.
But it is still good not to take one’s eyes off the ball though and assume that just because it’s likely that the fundies won’t try and rig the game at the end. Especially as they’ve got to be seeing the writing on the wall and knowing that a loss here will really make it clear that their scare tactics are no longer working.
Gator90
@Mnemosyne
What you and John call “whining,” I would call “lobbying the president and asking him to keep his promises.”
For reasons that are unclear to me, John seems obsessed with the idea that gays are free to pursue their civil rights in any way they choose, as long as they never, ever bother the most important person in the country. (Who, John bizarrely insists, has no power to help their cause…)
The activities John recommended are all fine and good (his sneering, condescending manner notwithstanding). But I don’t see why they are incompatible with lobbying the president, and I’m damned if I can see why the latter activity drives John so batshit.
Phoenix Woman
@Cat:
Depends on what you consider a promise not kept. He’s been doing pretty good on the gay-employment front. (As a number of gay activists have noted, what good does it do to have the right to marry if your boss can still fire you for being gay?)
By appointing the openly-gay John Berry to head OPM — the Federal Government’s HR office — Obama put the Federal Government, the nation’s biggest employer, on notice that it was time to join the 21st century. And since the Pentagon, at least up until the Bush era, followed OPM’s lead on things (and now seems willing to do so once again), that’s why there was suddenly fresh action on getting Congress to definitively repeal DADT. Once again OPM, after being left behind by private industry on this issue, suddenly gets to leap out in front again.
Yes, Obama can and should issue an Executive Order suspending DADT implementation until Congress finally eliminates it. (I suspect that, like Bill and Hillary Clinton — two other Democrats with no military-service background — he is a bit too deferent to the generals defending DADT, and too willing to believe them when they say that a questionable practice is needed for ‘national security’.) But the Executive Orders of one president can be (and have been) undone by the next person to occupy the Oval Office; only a Congressional repeal of the law Congress created in the first place will have any hope of something resembling permanence.
Cat
@Phoenix Woman:
Maybe it was because the teabaggers were lying, exposing their anti-democratic values, and general ignorance on the health care debate. I doubt them holding a rally changed anyone’s minds. It just took time for people to become educated on the facts. If you think about it, the teabaggers had a great effect on the HCR issue in they allowed the news cycle to stay on the topic for long enough time that more people became educated about it.
I like your attempt at artful dodge by applying the ‘modern’ to your point to show you acknowledge that protests and marches have caused major social changes and to show you are down with populous movements while simultaneously deriding modern populous movements. Cognitive dissonance artfully avoided!
Cerberus
@Cat:
To be fair, I think he has been keeping his promises. Certainly early signs look a lot more promising than they were say earlier this year, especially with the new movement on ENDA and early motions on DADT.
I say this as someone who unlike John believes that the pressure on Obama even when it is “unhinged” is a good thing as it provides both excuse and pressure on him to remind him how personal and important it is to many people’s lives and reduces the likelihood that he’ll feel burned out on pushing for what he can and just do a Clinton (not that I think it likely).
Pressure on Baldacchi in Maine is how we got ourselves to the point where they had to do a bullshit “people’s veto” maneuver just to try and stop us. I’d love to see the same gaping guppy faces as more bills tumble through.
Oh and by the way, bitch at your senators everyone. They’re like always, the real weak link in our democracy.
General Winfield Stuck
And I will add that the equation we are dealing with only has two parts. One is the Democratic Party and the other is the Republican Party, which as it now stands, is completely insane GOP/
That’s it, there are no other electable options in a two party Constitutional Republic. If we were a Parliamentary Democracy, it would be different. But we are not. So when I hear those on the left shriek about “if they don’t do stuff just the way we like it, when we like it they are just like the republicans” it wreaks of self absorbtion and stupidity.
You can agitate for your causes, but it matters how you do it is all.
Cassidy
@anonevent: If the lesbians are hot, the “L” comes first.
celticdragon
Bravo!
Thanks for the link and info.
Ambergris
@Cerberus:
God doesn’t approve of consonants lying next to each other.
celticdragon
True, that…
Ambergris
@Ambergris:
laying, not lying …Oh well…
Common Sense
I thought Frank Luntz did focus polling that showed calling it the LGBT Community rather than GLBT is more likely to attract straight white males, the largest demographic in the country. They love their lesbians even if same sex stuff works them up a bit at times.
John Cole
Good to see I can still be anti-gay while promoting pro-gay causes. I got mad skillz.
Doesn’t anyone get tired of the incessant wanking? When I got sick of the GOP, I left the party, joined the opposition, walked door to door and did phone banks for months to elect another guy, helped raise a bunch of money, etc. I didn’t sit around with my thumb up my ass whining or throwing spitballs at people who agreed with me.
Now granted, they are not the same thing, but it just seems like there are far more productive uses of the energy.
Cerberus
East Coasters: The Drive for Equality, part of the general Volunteer Vacation idea is going on and Maine could use what hope it can get.
Also if you can bitch at Sen. Kay Hagan that ENDA will be inclusive or nothing, that would be nice too. Contact information and some background can be found here.
So North Carolina peeps who want to feel all activisty for a day give her a call and tell her about a wonderful transperson in your life (or a friend’s life or even just theoretically) who deserves equal protection under the law and does not deserve to get fired just because their boss gets squicked out.
Cerberus
Huh, didn’t work. Ok, last try, FYWP.
East Coasters: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/13603/no-on-1-call-to-action-drive-for-equality Copy and paste this, it’s the Drive fro Equality, part of the general Volunteer Vacation idea is going on and Maine could use what hope it can get.
Also if you can bitch at Sen. Kay Hagan that ENDA will be inclusive or nothing, that would be nice too. Contact information and some background can be found when you copy and paste this: http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/13535/sen-kay-hagan-to-transgenders-i-will-have-to-carefully-consider-your-impacts
So North Carolina peeps who want to feel all activisty for a day give her a call and tell her about a wonderful transperson in your life (or a friend’s life or even just theoretically) who deserves equal protection under the law and does not deserve to get fired just because their boss gets squicked out.
Sorry for lack of actual links, but apparently they made WP sad.
Shawn in ShowMe
Nah, he’s obsessed over gay rights supporters who rant endlessly about non-issues like Rick Warren but allow themselves to get out-organized on meaningful issues like Prop 8.
Cerberus
Damn. Lost a post to FYWP. Basically it was a call to action for the Drive for Equality in Maine, google it and to yell at Sen. Kay Hagan about inclusive ENDA (because she’s been being stupid about trans rights) if you are NC and telling her about a wonderful transperson in your life (or a friend’s life or hell just lie to her) who deserves equal protection under the law.
Also, FYWP FYWP FYWP.
Steeplejack
@Ambergris:
Forgive yourself. “Lying” is correct.
Cerberus
@Ambergris:
God created Adam and Eve with good honest vowels to start, none of this faggy scandanavian shit with all the consonants all willy nilly, damn it!
Cat
@Cerberus: His administration is starting to get the ball rolling. It could be a coincidence or causation. We will never know.
When people start telling others to act a certain way because it can hurt the movement when they have just as little clue as everyone else what hurts the movement it comes across as farcical.
Max
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: I thought that was a good point made by Tweety.
OT, but related to last Friday’s show… Can we, at some point, have a thread called “WTF is up with Bill Maher and vaccines?”.
Cerberus
arrgh, FYWP, that’s if you are in NC, call and tell her.
My first post was better constructed, I swear.
Midnight Marauder
@Gator90:
This is probably because “the most important person in the country” doesn’t really have the power to end DADT, DOMA, or enact ENDA. It’s not his job. Those are legislative issues. Again, there’s no issue with people lobbying and pressuring the president to move on gay rights; you can do that all day long to your heart’s content. What people are saying is that those efforts and energies might be put to greater and more effective use by lobbying the individuals and governmental entities that actually have the authority and responsibility to make the change you desire.
They’re not “incompatible,” but it’s also not entirely “smart.” If Congress is going to be the entity to end DADT (and that’s what’s going to happen, all talk of “Obama can just get rid of it with an executive order” aside), DOMA, and pass ENDA, it serves to ask why would you fixate so much attention on a person who doesn’t have the authorization to make the legislative changes you desire. Clearly, you can see how that would drive someone like John insane.
“END DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL NOW, MR. PRESIDENT!”
“You should probably be telling that to Congress. You know, since that’s their job and all.”
“Okay. BUT I STILL WANT OBAMA TO END DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL RIGHT NOW!”
(Repeat.)
Again, it should be easy to see how that would be frustrating.
Michael
@Cat
I think gay activists should have another flamboyant parade with feathers, S&M costumes with leather chaps, and lots of public making out as a demonstration of gay pride. That is always the awesomest way to get people to take you seriously. It always brings a tear to my eye in solidarity to hear chants of “we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it”, and I love watching the reactions of people’s sympathy and support when people throw condoms in Catholic cathedrals, particularly for new ordinations.
Yup, gay activists have a fine record of eliciting support and sympathy from the straights.
Cerberus
@Cat:
True, but he also has a good point that we should clap and support when our fears are unfounded (either by coincidence or causation) and recognize that and that pressure on the president is not the only means of activism. In fact, I would argue that with the sorry state of the Senate, Obama could use every ounce of his popularity to fight for a cause with 90% of the popular support behind it (like say a campaign to say Little Bitsy is cute and deserves support in votes on Balloon Juice) and the Senate may after tense negotiations with Olympia Snowe produce a bill that says Little Bitsy should not, unless we change our minds later, be put to death.
The senate is a weak link. Obama has made it clear he’s restoring the office of the presidency. Sadly this means he’s a figurehead. He’s not retaining Bush’s unitary executive shit. By all means we should pressure the shit out of him, but he’s not the one who’s going to get anything passed, because he’s not the god-king Bush was.
Slam Democratic senators, especially piss-ass mormon wanker Harry Reid.
ellaesther
@John Cole: I was certain when I started scrolling though here that I would see all manner of “Thanks!” and “Good idea!” and “Constructive steps, FTW!”
Holy crow! Who knew that calling for actual action would lead a person to be denounced and defamed!
So, John, I hearby say to you: Thanks! Good idea! and Constructive steps, FTW!
And just for the record: The horse cannot yet be dead because gay people still do not have equal rights in this country.
The horse is alive, I tell you – ALIIIIIVE!!
PhoenixRising
John, the distinction is that the Professional Gay Lobby ™ is not a party. I think the horse you’re beating is John Aravois (proud to be bannedat his place, for pointing out that his hissy over the White House dinner was unbecoming to a queen) and some loud young people whose only experience of politics came in the past 18 months.
Those people, and that whiner, do not represent our movement. Or my family. Or my efforts, or the efforts of anyone I know.
I fired HRC by stopping the auto-debit in 2007. When enough sane, action-oriented GLBT folks figure that out, we’re going to have an unprecedented number of very good-looking young men who know how to ask me for money but have no other skills hitting the job market at once.
Maybe you can get a new pool boy at that time. Meanwhile, I’m not convinced you’re anti-gay, but I’m perplexed by your motive to provide Aravois and his ilk with the beating they so deeply desire. I stopped ’cause that’s kinky…in a way I don’t happen to enjoy.
On the point: Thanks for giving directions to potential supporters. If you know how to read a script, you can take up the fight at ProtectMaineEquality.com.
The War Over
MonotonyMonogamy, funded by Catholic bishops and Mormon families, must be won. By defeating the anti-gay Maine prop, we’re affirming the freedom to be sexually sorta-satisfied by the same person, for as long as it takes to pay off the mortgage for ALL Americans! Go team!Don’t let those religious bigots confine us to lives of short-term, mind-blowing drug-fueled flings held in tastefully decorated apartments, culminating in trips to Provence!
We wanna be tied down driving the kids to soccer, not the fun way!
Do we need new chants?
Michael
If Obama said “blow it out your ass – y’all are so not worth this fight” to the WATBs of GLBT activist world, I’d understand.
PhoenixRising
Michael, that last bit was for you. Curse you, edit function…
Svensker
@arguingwithsignposts:
DFH is the new Conservative.
Cat
@John Cole: I disagree with your position, but don’t think you are anti-gay. Its obviously not your highest priority for Obama’s to take on which is your prerogative.
Whats infuriating about your position is you tell people they are being unproductive and the impression you give as to why you think they are being unproductive are these:
A) it hurts the greater agenda, i.e. your priorities.
B) Obama will just not do it because the gays said mean things about him.
C) Anyone who voices the opinions are wasting their time voicing their opinions when they should be doing other things.
My responses to my totally made up criticisms:
A) He is not just your president, he has responsibilities to other constituents that may harm your well being.
B) Why did you vote for Obama if you think he is that vindictive.
C) This pretty much indicts every political movement past and present as being unproductive and ineffective.
Cerberus
@Michael:
I realize this was a bit of flamebait and frankly the whole thread will likely devolve into gay rights groups going “grah” at you and other groups saying “chill, and what the fuck on the whiny tactics of the Sullivan set”, but meh to that I say.
What I wanted to say was that the pride marches are one of the most provenly successful things ever because it cuts to the heart of much of the opposition, which is resistance in our culture towards at all considering our relationship to sex and sexuality. We’re not supposed to examine what we want sexually, who we are attracted to, what kinks we want to explore or not, we don’t even really do much to value the act of consent (which is why right-wingers can equate homosexuality to bestiality).
But Pride? Pride says read em and weep. And it tells people beating themselves up because they’re not sure they’re desires are “normal” regardless or not of whether or not said desires are even gay that come on, there’s a home for you.
That celebration I think has been the fertile ground to lay some critical alliances because most people don’t like a bunch of fossilized panty sniffers telling them what the right way to have sex is.
Plus, it also smashed the idea that being gay was a dour hated existence and told people, fuck it, we can have fun too, we’re not your dickensian nightmare to scare your kids straight. Your kids will have to figure out their sexuality for themselves.
Certainly the growing support for gay rights backs this up. Counterintuitive though it might be, the “flaming” fags in thongs and whips has actually been the single greatest invention in the entire queer rights movement and has done more than anything to increase visibility and public support for gay rights.
So yeah, interesting anecdote. I suspect by the time this goes up, we’ll be at least two exchanges into a flame war. Ce la vie.
Cerberus
@ellaesther:
I’m queer and thought it was an excellent post too. I think that these steps are exactly what we need as well as pressure on the senate cause those fuckers suck balls, like dirty tennis balls, not the sexy kind of sucking balls.
But yeah, to John, we’re not all ungrateful and I can speak for me and mine when I say, “go you super ally!”
Rest of you, if you live in a “moderate” state or reasonably close to Maine and you haven’t taken a trip up to phone bank or you haven’t called your conservadem senator yet… and you are a queer person ranting about Obama’s promises…
You are dead to me. Dead.
Michael
Actually, the pride marches lead me to the point of not giving a shit about their desires, hopes and dreams, because acting like a drama queen just to piss somebody off is annoying, and makes me think tht the effort is not serious and not worth exerting myself over.
There’s something else -somebody commented (maybe here) that at about 20 years after the repeal of DADT and DOMA (and long after the legalization of gay marriage nationwide), about 75% of gay men will be voting Republican.
I think that is a lowball estimate. Look at the economic draw of the “fuck you, I’ve got mine” ideology for closeted gay GOP activists. Judging from the utter disinterest I see in other issues from GLBT activists, I could definitely see it in their economic self-interest to go that way.
That’s one of the reasons why I don’t go all blubbery tearful over the travails and tales of piteous woe.
Svensker
@Cat:
I think if you substitute the old-fashioned “one” for “you” in John Cole’s post, you (and one) will see that this is not a personal attack on you personally. Rather it seems to me to be John’s way to urge people to get involved in a meaningful way, with a helpful link to some possible activities.
gwangung
Hm. I’m not sure that’s ever a bad thing.
Joel
@Cat: I think John’s point is that people who are truly invested in movement politics should actually take action to support that movement.
stacie
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
I would add that it would probably help to mail it to the local or at least in-state offices of said elected official, since I believe mail on the Hill is still in an endless anthrax screening loop.
Anyone know if they’ve fixed that yet?
Cerberus
@Cat: I’m not him, so I can’t speak for him, but it seems that he’s stated position is not: “shut up and go away and never put pressure on the O-Man cause he’s my homey”.
His position seems to be more of: “Ah, you’re angry and putting pressure on the O-Man, excellent, but oh dear me, you seem to have no modulation on said pressure and don’t seem to acknowledge when he does something right, thereby only providing the stick with no carrot, old chap, and this has me plum worried that you’re also ignoring the myriad of real and critical actions towards that goal you profess to have. Perhaps, dear old boy, you could get set towards those goals or modulate criticism to acknowledge that said O-Man isn’t trying to murder puppies and then it will seem less like the O-Man is some random foil for decades of repressed rage at how the two-party system has failed your cause and more like you are taking advantage of this wonderful turning point in history to make meaningful public change. Now Watson old boy, where’s my tea?”
(No I have no idea why John became a stereotypical Brit in said re-enactment)
Now, I believe that there is benefit to putting pressure on Obama, even unhinged pressure or angry pressure or pre-emptive pressure, but I believe his viewpoint has a good strong point too and it’s worth remembering in general that while it’s good to hammer the WH to keep it’s promises, cause y’know activism, remind him of importance, etc… he isn’t a god-king and is actively removing the god-king gears the chimperor installed in the Oval Office, so bitching at him will remind him to provide what pressure he can and that might be important, we will be getting more bang for our buck, the more we make Harry Reid’s life a living hell.
I want the conservadems to flinch every time they answer the phone from a constituent and I want to fax them all nice marriage licenses from Maine to remind them to grow a fucking spine.
On all the important issues, not just the gay ones.
Gator90
@Midnight Marauder
Do you really need to have it explained to you that, throughout our history, the President has commonly played an important role in advocating for desired legislation and working with Congress to get it enacted? Surely, you know this, right?
(You know that FDR had a little something to do with the New Deal legislation, right? That the “Reagan tax cuts” and “Bush tax cuts” are called that for a reason, even though their enactment was a “legislative issue”?)
I’m always reading blog posts and comments about what Obama should be doing about health care reform. Oddly, no one ever says that it’s “not his job” and he should sit passively on the sidelines. Because health care is, you know, important.
geg6
FYI, but you don’t have to go to Maine to help.
I did my phone banking from the comfort of my home here in PA. I called a local organization and they got me a phone list and I called. You can find local organizations here:
http://www.atticuscircle.org/links
Cat
@Michael: Hopefully Obama isn’t like yourself and doesn’t conflate the actions of a minority with the rest of the equal rights movement.
Hopefully Obama has some compassion for the GLBT community and does away with the current discriminatory policies in place in spite of the bad behavior which offends you so greatly.
Forgive me if I reject your homogenized society where nobody ever has to worry about the specter of people acting not like they are supposed to.
Cerberus
@Michael:
I’m sorry to hear that. I personally believe that a bit shallow and conditional, but imperfect allies are still allies and all that. Good on you to still support our general causes despite any antipathy you may hold to the community as a whole. That takes remarkable fortitude and empathy and I thank you for it, sincerely.
On gay men, well, we’re not all gay men, hence the alphabet soup. Lesbians for instance are notable for being more politically involved on average than most any other demographic in the world. I won’t deny there are a set though of rich white gay men, filled with all the racism and sexism of your average gooper who are indeed just waiting for the excuse of not being actively hated to switch parties.
We here on the ground hate those fuckers and I suspect that it’s the knowledge of them that makes the Dems balk every time about moving faster as they figure they shouldn’t go out of their way to win said fuckers enough rights to feel comfortable supporting people who hate them and worked tirelessly against them personally for decades.
I don’t know what else can be done but shaming them. In my own way, I try to do this when I can in the queer communities, but then, I mostly hang out with lesbians so… let’s say they don’t really have the same conservatism in them and if they were going to jump it’d be to the communist party or some such shit like that.
geg6
@Gator90:
Surely you know that much of that history that you cited there is the “history for dummies” versions of how those things happened and that, often if not always, such things as “Reagan tax cuts” are called such as a sort of shorthand and that Reagan himself actually did nothing to get the tax cuts passed other than the exact.same.things Obama is doing for his legislative agenda? Like advocating for what he wants to see in legislation, talking to congressional leaders, and telling them what he requires to get his signature on the bill. You are more than a little condensing here. ;-)
gwangung
@Gator90:
And surely you know that this didn’t happen without considerable pressure on both the President and Congress, right?
And surely you know that not all Presidential action is publicized, right? And surely you know that not Presidential action is top down authoritarian action, which you are recommending, right?
There are more than one way, more than one set of tactics to get to a goal. Right now, the way you are speaking doesn’t seem to recognize that.
Cat
@Svensker:
I never thought it was an attack on me personally.
Its a giant “you must be this tall sign” in front of the political discourse ride.
“You don’t get to participate if you don’t participate in the way we want you to.”
The hypocrisy is infuriating and laughable at the same time, but they’ll never see it.
Cerberus
@Gator90:
And yet, we were bitching at him not some odd weeks ago about how he seemed to be sitting on his ass about health care while the Senate beat the bill to death.
Obama seems to be trying something genuinely radical. For the first time in a long time, perhaps since George Washington himself, Obama seems to be going out of his way to strip the office of the Presidency of extra power. He knows that in the past, the president has grown into sort of an emperor position that was the true stick that ordered everything else around. He believes the only way to end the cycle especially post-Bush is to actively return it into a figurehead almost completely removed from the legislative process.
As a progressive, I worry about the strategy, since the Senate seems as incompetent as the media in grasping what it’s job used to be and should be and is still trying to play by the old rules, but it’s nonetheless the strategy he’s chosen and sticking by.
He’s been really on the sidelines a lot on health care, he’s doing the same on the other legislation and he’s spoken his support where he can. We can call on him to speak more, at least as much on health care, but let’s be honest in our criticism.
It’s not ineptitude, it’s not antipathy, it’s him sticking to his idea of the constitution that the president is no longer god-king of the USA. I say, pressure him, but accept that as the truth, and start equally if we haven’t already been (cause we should have been and I have been) pressuring legislatures (state and federal) and placing more blame there as well for “failing to live up to the promises of President Obama to his constituents”.
PaulB
Just one point:
The two are not now, and never have been, mutually exclusive. Quite a few of us who have “flam[ed]” the administration for not issuing executive orders have also noticed that said orders are only a temporary fix and have simultaneously lobbied our various CongressCritters to make said orders permanent.
CT Voter
@General Winfield Stuck:
Second.
And thanks, John, for the link.
Cat
@Michael:
Did you think that same thing when the blacks sat at whites only food counters or didn’t give their seat up on the bus? Everyone knew this would piss people off and create the confrontation and drama needed to start the ball rolling and gain attention to their cause.
Let me guess, that was different, they weren’t wearing ass-less chaps so it was the proper way to protest.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
Just email John the long forms that detail your work and I am sure that he will eventually get back to you and let you know when you have crossed the threshold. Don’t worry, John is a nice guy, you will not be treated with condensation.
We made John an honorary DFH a long time ago, we’re just waiting for him to grow the pony tail.
That’s why I CTRL-A and then CTRL-C (highlight and copy) my post right before I post it. If WP eats the post I just CTRL-V (paste) the copy and nail it again.
Oh, and FYWP. Also.
mDee
You realize, of course, that not everyone is like the typical Republican who can only fit one or two low level activities into their busy teabagging/birther days. (broadbrush alert!) Believe it or not, some people have the ability to scream via their keyboards AND do all the nifty activist stuff too. I know! The mind boggles!
Not everyone goes to great lengths to talk or complain about about how much is on their fucking plates. I certainly don’t expect other bloggers to spend all their time blogging about their activist exploits in between their legitimate complaints. Look at me backpat myself! Hooray for me! I rock! Not everyone’s style. But if a I or anyone else wants to complain about something on blogs by taking 30, 90, or 120 minutes out of our fun-filled days, I’d like to know, what’s it to you?
When someone tells you that they simply cannot do the activist legwork because it will cut into their precious keyboard time you might have a point. Until then, you’re simply making broad assumptions about a group of people you’ve decided need some sort of smackdown for irritating you.
Have you ever considered just not reading their posts? I mean, if this is your new cause I’m quite happy to jettison BJ off the ol’ RSS reader because I not only find these posts irritating and condescending (many activists already know what they are, can, and should be doing, thanks dad), I find bloggers bitching about the way other groups bitch one of the most tedious and unproductive aspects of blogs. This blogger meta back and forth is beyond fucking boring to those of us not grooving on all of the meta drama it produces.
Please, for the love of Meta Jesus, find a more worthy cause to obsess about. Or don’t. Your choice. I’d rather not dump BJ-I’m rather fond of reading about the exploits of Lily & Tunch and usually find your thoughts on the happenings in the external world interesting. But strings of condescending meta bitch/sarcasm fests against other bloggers? No thanks.
Cerberus
OK shorter me to some of the people here:
Chimperor fashioned himself god-king orderer of the legislature.
Obama does not, Obama believes the only way to prevent another Chimperor, god-king of the legislature, is to defang the executive of all the god-king powers that have been building up possibly for centuries.
He is not all government, he does not want to be all government, he is actively resisting becoming all government. Bitch at him, do it with my blessing, but recognize the simple fact that he’s not god-king of the legislature.
And even if he was, with this democratic party, even with that power, he might just be able to pass a bill saying Little Bitsy is cute with 51 votes and a 60 vote for cloture following an amendment adding a random tax cut for Olympia Snowe.
Cat
@Joel:
This debate has been a constant theme, he’s had plenty of time to refine his message, but it continues to come across as “you can’t publicly voice your complains, you can only lobby quietly or you jeopardize your seat at the table.”
Cerberus
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
I did. It refused to post at all with the links I added, not even a “this post is waiting in moderation”. Talk about FYWP.
Joe M
Whew – so glad I came by today for my daily sound-off from John Cole regarding how to play my part in the La-gill-bit movement. It would help you most definitely if you ever actually considered that maybe the very people screaming “just words” or “whining” to the president are indeed actually doing much of what is listed on his link, but that would mean less dog and cat posts or trolling Red State to laugh at their foibles. Question: Have you done any of the things listed on this link, John? If so, list them in detail. If you have, my hearty congrats and a mea culpa for assuming you were just some random straight dude that would rather be an armchair quarterback for silly gays than get his hands dirty. There is urging and there is condescending. Know the difference. Like we haven;t been on top of the referendums in Maine and Washington, bitch, please.
Midnight Marauder
@Gator90:
I see that others have already addressed the main reason why your analysis is entirely off-base. So instead, I’ll just highlight something you wrote:
and something I wrote:
Now, as Phoenix Woman mentioned , if you want to see that presidential influence you keep talking about at work, look at some of the people Obama has nominated.
That’s a pretty substantial action on Obama’s part. It’s setting the stage for more action later on. Because that’s not a battle he is going to fight right now. Because he doesn’t have to. Because CONGRESS is where the primary action on DADT will take place. Hell, if the GLBT folks were really on top of things, they would have Congresspersons rolling out DADT and DOMA legislation the day after Obama’s inauguration. Why? Because that’s what Congress is there for. That’s their job. Not Obama’s.
Regardless of how much (deserved and justifiable) pressure you put on him, that’s not going to change. And when the time comes from the president to throw himself headfirst into the fight, then I’m sure he will perform more than ably. Just as he’s done thus far with HCR.
General Winfield Stuck
@Gator90:
It all depends on which party controls congress. Right now it’s Obama’s party and as I stated in an earlier thread, dems are different than repubs on how they respond to pressure from the executive branch, even when it’s a dem presnit, and maybe because of. Dem CC’rs are prickly about being bulldozed and have rebelled when past dem presidents have tried to strong arm them in public. And personally, I approve of this being a proponent of separations of power which is our system.
Repubs are different and seem to fall in line like sheep when they are in control of congress with a supreme leader wingnut in the Oval Office. See GWB.
Obama shouldn’t just sit on the sidelines and wait for congress to pass a bill for him to consider. It is obvious to me he is certainly not doing so. Though there is room around the edges to criticize, but overall he is doing it about right, imo. At least in public. Behind the scenes is something else that we can’t really know about, but to read a tea leaf now and then from what happens in public.
If the wingnuts were controlling congress, the whole pair-a -dime would be different and Obama would be hammering them like rusty nails. But that isn’t the case, though it might be before it’s over, if enough dems do each other in with the circular firing squads.
I am mostly speaking about HCR but this scenario applies generally in different degrees whatever the topic for legislation.
Cerberus
@Cat:
Ah, see that’s the misunderstanding. John may be a mean old cuss (in a loveable way), but he’s not the mother-fucking HRC.
See, the HRC has said that, flat out, because they are rich, out of tune bastards more interested in power than fighting for the cause they are paid for. See also conservative democrats in the Senate who have the same problem.
These people have said this and they are fuckers, you and me agree on that. John may be a fucker sometimes (in a lovable way I swear), but he is not THAT KIND of a fucker.
Important thing to remember.
He’s not on that side and you might be letting anger over HRC/conservadem complaints towards the gay community’s impatience color ALL complaints towards the gay community’s methods.
John’s statement is pretty much to be even shorter than before: “Don’t be Andrew Sullivan. P.S. John Avarois, be right more than you are wrong.”
That’s it. Still a fucker (and still lovable) but NOT IN THE WAY YOU ARE CURRENTLY ANGRY AT HIM FOR.
Cat
@Cerberus: It maybe John and others are bad at expressing their points. I doubt any of us here are always to express our opinions without room for misinterpretation. It seems that a lot of people are misinterpreting what he’s trying to say.
General Winfield Stuck
@Cat:
Baloney. What are you doing right now? You have a free and open forum to express your opinion and so does Cole. No one gets banned here for that, or about any reason. You are whining because Cole and others disagree with your tact, as is their right, as is yours to voice what you think. Grow up already.
gwangung
@Cat:
Or you’re pretty bad as interpreting them. Takes two to tango.
Again, this is a debate on tactics, not strategy. It’s not existential; it’s not life or death stakes, because everyone wants to get to the same place. Some folks are not acting like that.
lol
This post pretty much goes double for the health care purists at DailyKos too who think Obama is the roadblock and not the Senate.
Punchy
LGBT sounds like a sandwich.
mcc
@Cerberus:
The conference report for the defense authorization (which the hate crimes bill is attached to) passed in the House. Unfortunately from there it ran directly into a huge traffic jam of authorization and appropriations bills the Senate is trying to work through. It seems absolutely clear that the defense authorization will pass easily when it goes up for a vote (there was basically a test vote when the senate voted on its “instructions” to the conference committee) but there doesn’t seem to be any indication of when that vote could be and the senate does not appear to be prioritizing the defense authorization above any of the other budget bills. So it’s purely a matter of when not if, but still, frustrating.
Joel
Apropos of nothing.
McMegan’s lede:
Obama’s Threat to Insurance Companies
Taking away insurers’ anti-trust exemptions would infringe on freedom of the press (White House/flickr)
No, I didn’t click through.
Cat
@Cerberus:
Or he’s consolidating political power in the hands of the Dem’s by making sure the lobbyists get the message he can control what gets done in the congress by getting them to pass HCR that the public doesn’t want, that makes no financial sense, and protects the lobbyists clients interests.
Its all in how you frame the facts.
Svensker
@Cat:
I don’t see it either. From here, it sounds like John is trying to help and you are being thin-skinned and reading stuff into his words that aren’t there. But I’m not standing in your shoes.
Cerberus
@mcc:
Hooray!
For everyone, all my lovely allies, this is HUGE! Well, y’know, when “when” arrives. Especially for the 12 dead transpeople this year from January to the beginning of September.
Take that, religious right, we’ve taken away your free speech right to kill us with impunity and then claim you should get away with it because “it” came on to you.
Goodbye gay/trans panic defense!
@Punchy:
Maybe if the gays really do leave ala Michael’s prediction, we can fashion ourselves as the BLT community. We will have officially become:
Delicious.
mcc
@Punchy: Lettuce, guacamole, bacon and tomato? Hm.
Personally I tend to use LGBT rather than GLBT just because GLBT to me looks visually confusable with GBH, or GmbH. I don’t think it really matters though. :)
General Winfield Stuck
Next you’ll be telling us you see dead people and special messages within the type.
Cerberus
@Cat:
See that’s why I disagree with the tactic until better reforms pass.
But see, this isn’t a discussion on whether or not such a tactic is a wise and virtuous decision or whether it’s naive and will lead the sell-out of America to the United States of Money.
Your discussion and the targeting of Obama without context has been on the discussion of whether he has been quiet out of spite or in pursuit of the tactic I described.
Well, he’s pursuing that tactic and believes it to be the right course of action. I’m worried and skeptical, but I’m willing to give him some benefits of some doubts as he tries it, but he is still trying it.
So we shouldn’t pretend that it’s still God-king emperor Calvinball. Maybe Naive to the awesome power of money on the Senate Calvinball, but not God-king emperor Calvinball. And maybe if we still want things to succeed, we need to beat up said beholden to money Senate at least as much as the O-Man.
By all means, tell him he’s being stupid for giving up God-king powers before the Money Beast is slaughtered, but recognize that’s what he’s doing.
mey
I used to be annoyed at JC for not seeming to care about gay rights as much as I did. But after reading many of the above comments (on this thread and others), I’m amazed he’s been as patient as he’s been. You people are really fucking annoying me. Take mDee’s advice; if you don’t like John’s posts to the point that you’ve got to projectile vomit-type all over every one of these threads, take it off your RSS. That goes double for you mDee.
kay
@Gator90:
I’ll happily say it’s not his job to draft health care reform.
The health care reform wanking is equally unproductive, if not more so. You actually have an issue (DADT) that can be ceded to the executive.
They don’t.
Anyone who thought health care reform was going to emerge entire from negotiations in April and then just need some tweaking was and is insane, but the second-guessing and could-have beens on health care started virtually the moment the debate began.
People now regularly post that he “ceded” the whole issue when he didn’t start with single payer.
Not that anyone has any idea what calculus went into that decision, but it’s now just accepted that he “screwed them” right out of the gate.
I mean, Christ.
It’s not even original. It appeared once, and then was parroted endlessly. It’s now “true”.
“It’s over, and it’s his fault!” That’s helpful.
Maude
@Joe M: It would be nice if you weren’t here.
Cerberus
And God-King and the Money Beast needs to be a metal band. Like Now.
Molly
I grew up with gay men…my best friend of 20 years’ father is gay and has been with his partner for 30 years. I saw the struggles of their family every day. I am a fervent supporter of GLBT equality.
I also worked for Obama’s campaign in the same capacity John did. Part of that was my commitment to gay rights. I did not understand how Hillary had the support she had in the gay community after Bill enacted DODT. I saw how that affected my friend’s father, who served in Vietnam.
I understand where John is coming from. Many of us are committed to gay rights, fervently committed, passionately committed. But it’s frustrating for many people, gay and straight, who are fighting to overturn this crap to see ammunition being given to the people who hate gays because tactics aren’t being thought through. It’s not a “shut up, sit down,” thing, it’s a “please think about what you say, who you say it to, and where to spend your passion and energy.”
I know the vocal minority are not the GLBT movement as a whole. I also know that when some gay people lash out at straight people, saying they can’t understand or that they’re not needed in the fight, that’s coming from a place of anger and hurt and disappointment. Doesn’t mean I’m ever going to back down and turn my back on you. Myself, I’m asking that we work together on this. I don’t want to be patient either. I want my best friend’s dad to be able to marry his partner, because it matters to him.
I don’t know why DODT is still around, but I know I’m not going to back off until it’s not any more. I also know I’m not going to blame one man for it, even if he is the President. I’m going to expect that we, as a country, do better next time. All of us are accountable.
That’s all.
kay
In John’s defense, if you’ll look beneath this post, he has a post directed at health care reform wankers, which I agree with, so I don’t think the bias claim flies.
General Winfield Stuck
@kay:
Only gay folks exist in this thread it seems, they only communicate with one another. The why of it is intriguing, as well as mildly annoying.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Cerberus:
That really sux royally. How many links were in the post? Maybe there is an upper limit that trips WP up and causes it to dump the post.
Ubetcha!
It may be that some people have poor reading comprehension skills or are filtering it to fit their preconceived notions. Some people enjoy raging about a topic/cause to the point that if you do not agree 100% with them then you are the enemy (see: Wingnutz).
I like this place because John, like myself and many others here, has a low tolerance level for bullshit from anyone. I think it is because he ate so much bullshit as a Republican that he finally got sick of it and now he calls it out when he sees it.
Gutsy post John but damn well worth making. I don’t care much for Tweety but he is right about using snail mail to let your congresscritters know what you are expecting from them. Unless printed, an email is something on a screen, not something they can physically hold. It is easily viewed and deleted where mail has to be opened, read and hauled to the trash. When the mailman brings a huge bag of letters to a congresscritter and dumps it on their desk, you can bet that they will sit up and pay attention to what is being said. Especially when the volume of mail ends up flooding their offices. A mass of emails are not going to have the same effect, no way. When someone takes the time to compose a letter and mail it, that tells the congresscritter that this person serious, sincere and willing to take the time to compose a letter to get their point across.
Another problem with emails are the ‘copy & paste’ emails, there is no individuality to the message sent when they all say the exact same thing. Snail mail doesn’t have that problem. If the congresscritter wants to know what you are saying then they have to open the letter, there is no subject line that makes it easy for the congresscritters to look at it and say ‘That’s what they are writing about? I could care less, delete it.’
Flood their fucking offices with real mail, it’s the next best thing to being there.
Cerberus
@mey:
Believe me, we’re not all like that. Some of us queers are angry, radical, and willing to take some constructive bitching even when we’re not entirely sure it’s deserved (I personally think some of it is deserved and very constructive, yay to this post especially)
Some though, are still waking up from the last decade of getting kicked in the teeth and haven’t started salivating and plotting at the delicious cake of equal rights just waiting to be taken yet. Pity them, hug them, and then help them eat that cake. Scream for me bigots, mua ha ha.
Hate crimes as good as passed, ENDA on its way, eee, I’m giddy as a schoolgirl. And everyone, help make this a go, you Maine sort of year.
Cerberus
@General Winfield Stuck:
:-(
Sorry.
Big hug for all straight allies! You guys really are fantastic. Don’t let our spiky members run you off.
Cerberus
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
Yes. This.
Plus remember this important fact:
You know how it seems like congress is out of phase with the rest of the country, how it seems like they’re stuck in a decade long since passed and almost seem to be reliving social battles that were settled in the real world years ago?
You’re not dreaming, they’re for the most part, fucking luddites.
They only respect letters, because email is from the devil box with all the porn that got them in trouble with the missus. Also the right-wing so abused chain emails that they pretty much ignore everything but hard copy and only count “constituency” by letters written or maybe calls received. So essentially, physically spam congress.
kay
@General Winfield Stuck:
I’m actually OT, so they’re right.
I may be alone in this, and if I am, forgive me for being so sensitive, but the whole tone of the last month on nearly every issue has been “abandon hope, the fix is in, we’re all screwed!”
That grinds me down. It doesn’t inspire me to try. It makes me want to give up. Surely that isn’t the intent, but that’s the effect, on me, anyway.
Now you can go back to talking about something other than me :)
Cerberus
Huh. It appears I nuked the thread…
Good?
I’m going to go with good. Now I think I will also go get food.
Gator90
To All:
I appreciate the many thoughtful responses above. A number of valid points were made. But I continue to insist that: (a) it is perfectly legitimate and sensible to lobby the president regarding civil rights legislation and/or executive orders; (b) it cannot be plausibly claimed that the President is powerless as to legislative matters (even if, as Cerberus suggests, this President desires to diminish his own power); and (c) John Cole is way over-invested in telling people he allegedly agrees with to STFU.
Among the people who allegedly are on the same side regarding gay rights, there are, I think, two groups: (1) those who see gay rights as a worthwhile issue, but just one of many issues to be juggled and prioritized, and surely not as important as [insert issue here]; and (2) those who see it as an urgent, fundamental matter of human dignity and equality.
Group 1 and Group 2 are, in a sense, on the “same side.” But they are bound to find one another frustrating, aren’t they.
John Cole
So, to recap, I posted a thread with lots of easy and effective ways to advance the cause that will be seen by thousands of mostly straight and otherwise unengaged eyeballs, and Cat has spent the thread telling me I have no right to tell the gays what to do and that the most important right for gays is to hurl boomeranging and ineffective spitballs at the President.
And I’m the one who needs to hone my message?
prospero
Breaking news: Once and future Republican, who argued with a frenetic devotion that we should hurry up and commit ourselves in Iraq because OMG WMDs!@ is very deeply concerned about the pwogwessives making too much noise about silly issues that interest them but don’t much concern white, male, once and future Republicans.
gwangung
Yeah, that bugs me, too.
I’d rather have 100% of what I want now. BUt if I can get 66% of what I want in a couple months, with clear shots at getting the rest down the line, I’ll take it, particularly if the alternative is not getting anything–for the foreseeable future.
gwangung
@John Cole: Pretty much.
eemom
Please John, keep bashing the Obama sux-ers and don’t listen to their knee jerk apologists. As far as I can see you’re the only one in bloggerdom that has the sense to call them out.
Cat
@General Winfield Stuck:
You don’t get a pass when you publicly tell a whole community they are doing it wrong because another somebody some where threw a hissy fit.
Would you tell Civil rights activists they were doing it wrong because the black panthers robbed a bank? Would you tell the Muslims they were doing it wrong because Al Qaeda flew planes into the World Trade Center
Shawn in ShowMe
I see a lot of overlap between (1) and (2). You can recognize an issue as an urgent, fundamental matter of human dignity and equality while still realizing that nothing is going to happen in Washington until health care reform gets passed.
Soylent Green
Well, if I ever find myself in the street with a pitchfork, I will be looking to stick it in worthless shitheels like you.
kay
@gwangung:
Well, thanks. It’s not that hard to get me hopeful again, though, luckily.
I’m either an idiot or an optimist. Both? Anyway.
Pelosi has what I think is a smart tactic. She’s going to get the House bill down below the Baucus bill, cost-wise, and then confront the fiscal conservatives with a choice: cheaper bill with a public option, or the more expensive Baucus bill.
hah! Touche.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@John Cole:
Short and to the point…lol. Yup.
You’re not. I don’t let it get to me because I am used to hearing Chicken Littles scream about this and that thing that has doomed everyone and finding out later that they are wrong. Again.
I haven’t mentioned this here before but my youngest brother is bi and he is one of the reasons I will never let up on equal rights for everyone. He is a quiet young man who works hard and doesn’t have the time (or inclination) to be political. He just wants to live and work in peace, keeping a low profile. He has been attacked by his ‘friends’ for being this way but he could care less what they think. If anything, they are pushing him further away from being involved.
I’m in it for him and the many others like him who don’t want to speak up for whatever reason.
Cat
@Cerberus: Your post was chock full of metaphors and other parts of speech that made it hard to follow. I think my response to it is this.
We get the Government we vote for, I’m not going to put my hopes into a product of that environment ever killing off the money beast. Maybe we will get lucky and we’ll accidentally vote someone who will kill it off. It will be by accident, not intentionally as the system will rally against them if it thought it was in danger.
valdivia
@kay:
yeah the same happens to me. I hate the we are all doomed everything is over tone from a lot of people. Thankfully I find that a lot of the commenters here are not of that persuasion.
Cerberus
Yikes. I could not nuke enough, so sad :-(
Oh well, for those in need of a big squishy netroots in harmony hug, I present to you the ultimate secret weapon:
No on 1’s Thank You Letter to the Netroots community after they raised over a million dollars in support.
We can all do a lot of good, gay and straight allies for great justice and make people smile and create goofy YouTube campaign office tours to thank everybody.
Isn’t that the world we’re all fighting for?
Goofy thankful YouTube videos for everyone, America.
Midnight Marauder
@Cat:
Unless you’re not talking to the whole community, and instead, a bunch of WATB whose efforts don’t seem to be all that constructive towards achieving the goals of the community (and its allies) at large.
That might make a slight difference.
“I will take ‘Outrageously Gross and Highly Inaccurate Hyperbolic Comparisons’ for $600, Alex.”
Cerberus
@Cat:
Indeed, that’s why I want to make all those beholden suffer, not just a token figurehead. Especially not when that token figurehead seems to be doing just enough to struggle out enough from that money beast to do a few things for the forces of good.
Considering we are all so much money beast food, we should recognize when someone manages to make a ting and pressure everyone to at least stop feeding it random hobos.
Metaphor problem? I have no idea what you mean.
Davis X. Machina
You might enjoy BooMan.
Davis X. Machina
A metaphor is a figure of speech, not a part of speech.
Pedantic, yeah, but 70% of my third period Aeneid class today kept making the same mistake and now I’m hypersensitive.
Think of the children.
General Winfield Stuck
@Cat:
Again, Bullshit. Cole was calling out those who were throwing the hissy fit, and you took it personal, though you said you didn’t but then read into the post that it was about the entire gay community. And please expound on the whole ” The hypocrisy is infuriating and laughable at the same time, but they’ll never see it.”
WTF are you talking about, hypocrisy?
“but we’ll never see it”
Who says something like this, like your some kind of all knowing superior being.
gwangung
Some of us have been active in the Third World movement in the 60s and 70s, you know. And I can say that “we” haven’t cornered the market on patronizing.
Cain
@Cat:
Please read up the over turn of the jim crow laws. You will see that Kennedy introduced a bill to de-segregate everything with the civil acts law. You will also note he didn’t use an executive order. So this is a bad example since this was overturned legislatively. But the President did have enormous power to influence that legislation by getting it introduced in the first place. This is what Obama is doing now.
cain
General Winfield Stuck
@John Cole:
I hereby christen a new word.
Boomerwank, or Boomerwanking when the grammar suits it.
andrewtna
John – I usually find your sarcasm to be spot-on, but I think you’re being a bit too glib here. Sure, some progressives (including myself) have prematurely freaked out at times at the White House regarding its push for a public option, but I don’t think it’s been unreasonable to worry that Obama and Emanuel haven’t made perfectly clear that they insist the health care bill includes a public option.
You wouldn’t see reports like this if there weren’t legitimate doubts about its status:
This ‘we want the public option but we won’t demand it’ business is not IMO the best way to argue in its favor. If it’s ‘not the essential element of reform,’ why should Senators go out of their way to support it?
delk
@John Cole:
I thanked you.
I also spent 26 or so years screaming, watching friends die, and sometimes it is hard to shake off that approach. Trees. Woods. Nice sometimes to be refocused but even better if the time I had fighting this stuff was just gone so me and mine could just be happy to have other worries.
And I am truly thankful for you for bringing this up.
Joe M
@Maude:
Oh, listen, Maude – seriously. I can only take so much of this fucktardery before I bail. Honest. I’m usually a nice, laid-back guy. I truly am. But limit —> reached. I have an issue with my community being painted as a bunch of drunken leathermen gossiping over mai tai’s about how Obama is like some bad trick that doesn’t call us. Also, our daily marching orders are gained thru an elaborate countrywide phone tree with Andrew Sullivan at the very top.
I’m sorry, but did you actually fucking throw out a list of actions on gay referendums to your gay readers like we weren’t aware of them for MONTHS now and have been actively doing them? Like we didn’t know? Are you so at a loss as to how funny that is? Cause I’m reading your original post I’m not getting that it’s geared toward “straight and otherwise unengaged eyeballs”, rather some made-up gay community based on an afternoon reading Averosis, a community that can’t get the peens out of our mouths long enough to work a phone bank. Special feeling, that. I just slap my head at you guys. You’re ridiculous. Here’s Cole: “So I’m suddenly anti-gay because I listed a link to pro-gay action…” Oh, unclutch your pearls, absolutely no one called you anti-gay or even *insinuated* you were. I didn’t think to myself “he hates gays!” I thought, this is where I press delete on my Delicious bookmarks. I’ll always have D-listed, I suppose.
So guess that’s it, Maude. I will always remember you as “And then there’s…” Always. Ta.
JMC in the ATL
Not sure why you feel like John’s going after the entirety of the GLBT community, Cat. I haven’t read any of his posts in that manner, at all. And the original post here was nothing but positive.
Maybe you don’t remember first-hand when being an out young adult meant getting kicked out, more often than not, and having to fend for yourself with very few resources. I do. Maybe you never had to worry that visiting your parents meant risking a chance that you would get shuffled off to reparative therapy. If so, consider yourself lucky.
I’ve spent the last twenty years living life as an out gay man, working towards a society where GLBT teens won’t have to choose between being out and going to college, and will get to grow up with GLBT role models, and will get to see their relationships as just as valuable as the relationships of their heterosexual peers.
That can’t happen without hetero folks willing to help out. There’s just not enough GLBTs to perform the activism needed. And since most well-meaning hetero folks don’t spend as much time seeing the world through gay-colored glasses as some of us ;), they may not know where to start. So posting links to ways to help out should be welcomed, not trashed.
Kudos (again) to John for this post. I’m sure it is appreciated by more people than a vocal few makes it seem.
MNPundit
“not issuing executive orders that will be rapidly over-turned as soon as a Republican takes office”
Is that seriously your defense against this? Are you fucking kidding me? Wow.
Shawn in ShowMe
Some of them won’t. The Blue Dog senators in red states definitely won’t. And there goes your 60 votes.
And this business of the Capitol Hill staffer saying the president “needs to send a strong signal” – the only way Obama’s support could be any stronger would be to say I won’t sign a bill that doesn’t include a public option. Now why would he risk killing the whole bill, especially when he still has a shot of getting the public option installed during reconcilliation? Talk about perfect being the enemy of the good.
JadedOptimist
@Michael:
Have you been to a Pride march lately? Your depiction seems at least a decade out of date. The last few I’ve been to seem to have a lot more contingents from local churches than drama queens looking to piss people off (not that the two groups are mutually exclusive by any means). Lots of employer-based groups (Disney, Kaiser, Boeing). Parent groups and of course marriage advocates are well represented. The Mayor and City Council were there, as were state-level politicians and national officeholders who had a (D) after their names. It’s all so… mainstream.
Of course some things never change. Some shouldn’t. There are still alcohol-related floats with cute go-go boys dancing (bless ’em!). And drag queens will always be a part of the festivities – drag being another formerly shocking bit of LGBT culture that’s gone mainstream. And PFLAG still gets the most emotional response from the crowd.
Someone mentioned above that the visibility Pride marches provide has been, and continues to be, important. Yes, there are folks there whose agenda is to shock people (unlike straight events like staid, tasteful stadium rock concerts). And yes, the public saw lots of them in the early years. But they also saw PFLAG. And university students. And, in a lot of cities, a marching band playing some John Philip Sousa. And choral groups. And churches. And… and… and… lots of FOLKS just wanting our rights.
Yeah, nothing worse than an uppity fag. I’ve heard that argument in many forms over the years, and not just in context of LGBT rights. I think the correct translation is usually, “I made my mind up about ‘those people’, and will now attach that decision to this event because by only looking at the negative, it can be seen as supporting my disdain.” And don’t you dare predict LGBT voting behavior 20 years from now based on the twisted ideology of closeted GOP activists. That’s exactly what we’re fighting against. Somehow I don’t think the ‘fuck you, I’ve got mine’ attitude is really all that prevalent among people who are married, have a couple of kids, and remember how hard they had to fight for those basic rights.
Oh, and in the unlikely event anyone cares, I’ve always preferred LGBT because I remember the horrors of the 1980s, when AIDS decimated the leadership of Gay organizations. Those positions had mostly been held by gay men; in many organizations, lesbians were actively held back. During the crisis there were many instances where women stepped into leadership roles and saved organizations, nudging them into dealing with the new reality with strength and sensitivity and just generally keeping the community going. Before then, it seemed it was largely the Gay (men’s) Rights movement. Ever since, much more inclusive and therefore much stronger.
Cat
@DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal):
There is a type of post JC makes, he uses a blogpost by a GLBT person to bash the entire movement by words like “you” or using plurals. He sometimes follows that up with a you are doing it wrong rant. It is not the readers job try and divine if JC using the wrong pronoun.
This weekend he accused the GLBT community of being shortsighted without realizing accusing someone of being shortsighted is telling them to be patient. They have a legitimate gripe with being told to be patient.
Then there was this from the inauguration.
https://balloon-juice.com/?p=15884
People get mad that HBO cut out the gay priest. JC “All that because Gene Robinson wasn’t on HBO. So sick of you all. Every damned one of you.” Who are the “you all” he’s talking about? HBO? Democrats? Priests? Pundits? Gays?
There are several other posts like this since Obama was sworn in, including that 900 post monstrosity from this summer.
I believe JC when he says he’s all for GLBT rights, but he lumps all the GLBT supporters into the same group.
andrewtna
@Shawn in ShowMe
Talk about perfect being the enemy of the good.
The Finance Committee bill is not exactly ‘good.’ Do you like the idea of being forced by mandate to buy shitty coverage from a health insurance company? I don’t. The bill gives no incentive for insurance companies to change their practices, at all.
As of a couple weeks ago, the ban on insurance companies discriminating on the basis of pre-exisiting conditions wouldn’t apply to “self-insurers,” which cover more than 40 percent of Americans. This was Rockefeller’s biggest problem with the bill – every other health care bill in Congress had this issue solved. I haven’t been able to find if this has been changed in the SFC bill.
When the SFC bill first started circulating, it would have allowed insurance companies to spend up to 35 percent of your premiums on administrative costs and profit (i.e. medical loss ratio). Insurance co’s generally spend around 20 percent of your premiums this way now. I haven’t found if this has been resolved either – but that this is even a consideration in the Finance Committee is extremely disconcerting.
Moving forward, we don’t need 60 votes. We need 60 votes for cloture to end a Republican filibuster.
Cat
@Cain: This isnt about how GLBT people get their rights. Everyone knows congress has to act.
This is about how the people feel about the people involved in the process. About how you get the law makers to take notice and the opinion writers to frame the issue.
Standing in front of a tank, Sitting at the whites only lunch counters, or showing up at a pride parade in ass-less chaps people in this very thread have said the latter isn’t valid form of political protest even though it could get you beaten to death even in this day and age.
Shawn in ShowMe
Uh, the post is titled “Why I Hate Democrats and Being A Democrat, Volume 36329.” Just thought I’d point that out.
Shawn in ShowMe
Considering the exorbitant premiums I’m being forced to pay now due to a pre-existing condition, yes, I’d welcome affordable coverage.
Cat
@JMC in the ATL: I’m truly sorry you had to endure that and the fact any person has to go through that upsets me to no end. I try to empathize with you as much as any hetro can relate to what the GLBT have had to endure and may have to endure. :(
andrewtna
I want affordable coverage too. I’m not convinced mandating that everyone buy insurance will bring down the cost of premiums. Where’s the incentive to lower costs?
Shawn in ShowMe
The public option, which won’t pass without reconciliation
John T
@JadedOptimist:
Thanks for writing that; I was about to write more or less the same thing but you did it better than I would have.
I’ll add that I’ve noticed lots of people expressing the “your fruity parades with the assless chaps make me want to support your rights less, not more” sentiment, but I’ve never gotten the impression that these commenters were the kind of people who would be moved to support us if our marches were populated by well-behaved “normal” people wearing properly starched gray suits with our hands clasped behind our backs and our eyes humbly staring down at the ground as we shuffled down the boulevard in an orderly fashion. So fuck ’em, they’re not going to be on our side either way.
And everybody should read this.
By the way, aren’t chaps assless by definition? If they had an ass, they would just be leather pants, right?
Ed Marshall
I *think* what Sullivan wanted to be was a rabblerouser as a foil to the Gay establishment lobby.
I get this in street politics. You set up a mob behind the establishment figure and the respectable face of the issue says “You know, I’m embarassed, but my people are too pissed to control. I’ll talk them out of *=random act of civil disobedience that will make a big fucking mess but you have to throw me a bone to give them.”
This seems to be “my mob will post angry shit on blogs, and swarm comment threads” and that just isn’t doing anything. It’s worse than nothing.
DougL (frmrly: Conservatively Liberal)
@Cat: “There is a type of post JC makes, he uses a blogpost by a GLBT person to bash the entire movement by words like “you” or using plurals.”
The opening sentence of John’s post seems to be worded so that it is pointed specifically at the people who are ‘. . . screaming “just words” or flaming the administration’, does it not? If that is a broadbrushed you John used then it is the most specific broadbrushed statement I have read in some time.
Try again? ;)
Davis X. Machina
In the only actual state with am actual mandate to buy shitty coverage from a health insurance company, a plan with no private option, and a fine for non-compliance, to boot, “Yes” wins, 2-1.
toujoursdan
This is another gay man who says PLEASE don’t project the professional whiners on the entire gay community.
Most of us understand what the President’s limitations are. The Executive and Legislative branches are equal. He can beg, cajole and encourage, but Congress can come back and say “piss off!” I am pretty happy with the progress made so far and have no doubt that Obama will follow through on his promise.
But again, the activist community doesn’t speak for everyone. People in the LGBT community have about as much in common with each other as people who wear black socks.
eemom
@Davis X. Machina:
I did. Thanks for the link, I didn’t know about him b4.
Cassidy
@Punchy: They make movies like this.
TheHatOnMyCat
@Cassidy:
I’ve got $5 that says you are a spoof persona written by DougJ.
TheHatOnMyCat
@Cat:
Yes, there is nothing more cruel than being asked to be patient.
Oh, the humanity!
Phoenix Woman
@Cat:
Not an artful dodge, but the truth.
As Maha over at the Mahablog stated years ago: Go study the civil rights marchers. Notice that Dr. King made sure they:
a) Dressed in their Sunday/job interview best and carried professionally-printed signs
b) Acted like sober, responsible adults
c) Didn’t allow other groups to piggyback onto or hijack their message
d) Made sure that the people attacking them looked like the assholes they were (this was why nonviolent protest was so important)
e) Made sure they had lots of turnout for their message
f) Understood that demonstrations were not enough; they had to do the hard, unglamourous, non-ego-boosting work of organizing as well.
When Middle Americans saw these sober-minded, clean-cut people on their TV screens, it drastically affected their cultural stereotypes of blacks as unwashed subhumans. And when Middle Americans saw these same sober-minded, clean-cut people assaulted with police dogs and tear gas, Middle Americans sided with them and against the cops, which is extremely unusual for our society (which is based on “the policeman is your friend”).
Unfortunately, Dr. King was murdered before he could have much of an influence on how the Vietnam War protests were conducted. With him gone, a bunch of hippy-dippy levitate-the-Pentagon types rushed into the vaccum, broke every one of the rules listed above, and proceeded to piss off an American public that agreed with them on the war but voted for Nixon just to get back at them.
Luckily for us, the teabaggers are also taking their cues from the hippies, not Dr. King:
— Their movement isn’t focused around a coherent goal mainly because they don’t have one. Their real impetus, which is bound up with loss of white privilege, keeps bursting through even when they try half-heartedly to conceal it.
— They dress like yahoos and carry tacky signs (again, no message control because their real message isn’t the one they purport to be pushing).
— They rant and rave and don’t act particularly adult.
Most people see these guys and gals and shake their heads, just like they do when the people from lefty groups parade by with twenty-foot puppets and costumes. The teabaggers’ factual basis (or lack thereof) isn’t what affected Americans’ judgment as the traditional media most Americans still see and hear (hint: it’s not blogs, but drive-time radio and the evening TV news) didn’t exactly go out of the way to debunk the teabaggers, but took them and their claims seriously while not focusing on the groups backing them.
scott
I’ve been struck repeatedly over the past several months by John’s condescending tone toward the GLBT community with regard to our anger at the administration and congress for its inaction on causes important to us.
From the tone of John’s comments and repeated posts on the subject he seems to think that we are a monolithic block, marching in lock-step with each other and doing nothing other than whining and screaming about Obama lying to us. But that ignores the fact that 150,000 of us just converged on D.C in support of our rights and to speak in solidarity with our cause. And that we’re raising millions to fight the homophobic legislation in Maine and eslewhere like here In Washington State.
John helpfully points out the list of things that the “whiners” can do (other than whine of course), and in so doing once again implies that that’s all us gays are doing — whining and screaming at Obama — while he ignores the fact that the vast majority of the things to do on the DKos list are things sponsored by organizations and direct action groups that were basically founded by gays and lesbians — you know, people who are actually doing something rather than whining.
John’s blanket condemnation of bloggers or the nonspecific “whiners” yelling about President Obama’s real or perceived failings on GLBT issues also ignores the fact that that’s what bloggers do. They use their blogs as tools to advance an agenda or to simply make their feelings known. Surely John has figured that out by now. And many of those bloggers, in addition to yelling, also donate time and money to the cause and, I’d be willing to bet, even do some of the things on the Dkos list of suggested activities for the gays.
But John seems not to want to see or acknowledge any of that. Which is interesting to me because in another time and another place I’m willing to bet that John would most definitely NOT have the same condescending attitude toward Blacks who chose to register their anger through blogs (had they existed during the civil rights era) rather than street marches or lunch counter sit-ins.
Were the African-American civil rights movement occurring today I simply can’t see John lecturing Blacks on what they should and should not do to advance the cause of their civil rights, or to snidely word his suggestions to them (as he does in this post) in the same way he feels free to lecture us in the GLBT community — and that frankly, speaks far more to John’s underlying issues than any of ours.
John Cole
@scott: Scott- I just LINKED to people doing the sort of constructive things that you claim I refuse to acknowledge people are doing. I’m not talking about everyone in the community here, I am talking about a vocal minority of people who think that the most important thing about this struggle is getting themselves lots of attention, and who have decided the best way to do that is to be as loud and obnoxious as possible while producing no positive results. I am being condescending to them because they are obnoxious and counter-productive.
If that isn’t you, why self-identify with these remarks from me? If you are actually doing productive things, I’M NOT TALKING TO YOU. Additionally, I put my money where my mouth is. I’m going to be making calls, and I’m going to be donating (just as I did with the prop 8 folks), and I’m going to keep linking this shit so straight folks who are unengaged might start helping.
gwangung
You just totally ignored several posts that totally supported what Mr. Cole has been saying. You are totally ignoring what the Third World movement ACTUALLY DID TO GET CIVIL RIGHTS. YOU are being a condescending asshole to people who went through the long hard process of the civil rights movement and JUST MIGHT HAVE SOME INSIGHTS TO LEND.
Don’t do that. Please.
mkf
in case you’re interested, i just posted the following comment over at “bill in exile”:
this whole thing reminds me of an incident during the “no on 8″ campaign here in california–a straight woman who had been gay-friendly her entire life and had over the years supported with her time and her hard-earned cash any number of gay causes was found out to have contributed $100 to the anti-gay-marriage cause; seems her lifelong mormon beliefs about marriage had influenced her decision.
once the gay crowd found out about said contribution, of course, all her previous good works went out the window–they mercilessly hounded the business she managed until she was forced to resign.
it amazed me then and it amazes me now–you people (and by “you people”, i totally mean my fellow-yet-alien homogays) demand absolute fealty to your position in a way that makes the mccarthy era of yesteryear seem positively tolerant by comparison.
in other words, if everybody doesn’t march in absolute lock-step to your tune, they’re out.
god only knows how many well-meaning straight allies you’ve alienated with this purist bullshit.