Open thread.
But this is also intended to be an opportunity for book club peeps to share:
- your ideas for how we might want to approach each of the themes
- your thoughts on questions we might want to ask Adam Schiff (if we get to ask questions)
This is a chance for everybody to toss their thoughts into the ring for consideration.
⭐️ The goal of this post is to end up with a superset of all ideas, not to make decisions. ⭐️
Points of Information
I will facilitate all the zooms, but I have asked a couple of people to lead/moderate discussion for three of the meetings. I will fill that role for the other two.
Please note that the Theme number doesn’t necessarily correspond with the Meeting number – because we will be discussing Themes 2 and 5, respectively, on the evenings that Adam Schiff is able to meet with us.
When sharing your thoughts on how to approach a particular theme, please identify the theme. :-)
The questions for Adam Schiff should be related to the two themes in color below, and in your comments with proposed questions, please reference which theme your question relates to.
THEMES FOR DISCUSSION
Theme 1. Discussion of the book more generally, no specific theme
(discussion moderated by WaterGirl)
Theme 2. The Insurrection on Jan 6 – The Revolution Really Was Televised!
(discussion moderated by Almost Retired)
Theme 3. What Didn’t You Know Before You Read the Book? What Surprised You?
(discussion moderated by WaterGirl
Theme 4. So Many Shocking Betrayals On So Many Fronts.
(discussion moderated by Subaru Diane)
Theme 5. We’re Not Helpless Passengers On a Bad Ride – Making Our Own Shade.
(discussion moderated by Almost Retired)
Have at it!
Let’s use this as an open thread – I will cull through all the comments to find any related to the book club.
Betty
Today was a long day with company. I hope it will be okay to send my ideas tomorrow.
WaterGirl
@Betty: Yes, that’s fine. I will link this thread in the sidebar so folks can share their thoughts over a couple of days, long after the post is off the front page.
Betty
@WaterGirl: That sounds good. Thanks again for all your hard work!
zhena gogolia
I’m only 100 pages in. No questions so far.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: Maybe except how the hell do you hold big book when your arm is broken.
zhena gogolia
Here’s a question for Rep. Schiff. He’s been somewhat critical of Merrick Garland. What precisely does he think the AG could be doing differently? (I doubt this is in the book though.)
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: That is true. But I’m managing.
la caterina
@zhena gogolia: I second your suggestion. Would love to hear his take as a prosecutor
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: More than whether or not it’s in the book, my question is can that be related to either theme 2 or theme 5?
Because those are the specific topics he is interested in talking with us about.
Seems to me that fits under where do we go from here and how do we still have hope, which is another way to describe theme 5.
Leto
Regarding point #2: get people to submit questions by X date, you and John/Betty/Anne review them, and then pick 3-5 to submit to Rep. Schiff’s office for him to answer when he drops by. Maybe he only answers 1, maybe all 5. This might be the best way instead of a free-for-all via Zoom comments when he drops by.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: Yes, 5.
zhena gogolia
Theme 2. What did he think of the way the second impeachment was handled?
Leto
@zhena gogolia: He gets to that near the end of the book, covering the second Impeachment.
WaterGirl
@Leto: There will definitely be decisions about Adam Schiff questions made ahead of time.
I don’t know for sure that we will get to ask questions, though I think we will. And we’ll want our questions to fit in with whatever remarks he has made to us – at least i assume there will be remarks.
So we will have a set of questions to choose from for each of the 2 themes for the zooms he will be attending, and the choices we make for question/s to actually ask in real time will depend on his remarks to us. We’ll want to make the questions responsive.
But Step ONE is to collect all the ideas about questions.
piratedan
i would humbly ask if there is proof that some of his fellow Congresspeople and their staff conspired against the process what he thinks should happen to them, i.e. under what laws would he charge them.
FelonyGovt
Theme 5: What concrete actions can concerned people like ourselves take? Donating money, yes, but to whom? What else?
Theme 3 (I know this is not one where he is going to be present): I was actually surprised to read that Devin Nunes was reasonable and cooperative until the “Midnight Run” to the White House.
I’m not through with the book yet so there might be more.
Louise B.
I would like to know how he retains his optimism in the face of the continuing, relentless attacks on our democracy at all levels of government.
WaterGirl
Not seeing a lot of questions so far, but the ones that are here are excellent. I have linked this post in the sidebar so I’ll collect questions for a few days.
HRA
I still have a way to go in finishing the book. What I noted is his decision in a way to be a prosecutor with fairness in the justice system and that led him to run for office. One could ask him if he reached that goal.
zhena gogolia
@Leto: I admit I haven’t finished the Book but maybe he would enjoy talking about some of the things that are in the book. It might be fun to just discuss the same topic orally but I don’t know
Alison Rose
I’ve not yet started the book, so this may be covered and thus moot, but relating kind of to both themes, I’d be curious to hear his thoughts on the media’s role in both propping up the far right which led to the insurrection (i.e., through both-sides-ism, being unwilling to call out GOP lies, being wimpy about going after Trump, etc), as well as how he thinks the media could do better in the future to hopefully prevent another Trump-ish presidency.
Dan B
Theme 5: He spells out that the trials are for the four, moveable Senators, and the forty million, the public that is not well informed. Given the main stream corporate media and the libertarian leaning social media is there something strategic that would improve getting the message to that public? Is it best to try to persuade some wealthy progressives to invest in a media outlet to push back against Fox and its clones, or would it be better to invest in a group of people to push some core messages online like Russia has?
The other thought is it possible for a grassroots group to do the social media push? Could it be useful? If so, how does it focus to be effective?
I’m still debating how to phrase this question to fit Adam Schiff’s interests. Feedback is welcomed.
Dan B
@Dan B: I finished the book last week and made a few notes I’ll review them.
BeautifulPlumage
I’m nearly done with the book and have re-read the questions. I’ll need to ruminate a bit then can add to the questions. I like Dan B’s media question.
Dan B
@BeautifulPlumage: Thanks! And I loved the epilogue. I hope you like it. Sorta like a great dessert after a good meal.
Nelle
Loved the epilogue, too. It straightened my posture, inwardly as well as externally.
The book had the plot provided, yet he still had to write it with pacing, detail, and character development. He noted that a good prosecutor has to be a good storyteller. Does he have notable influences or mentors in his development as a storyteller and writer?
Jim Appleton
Read the book, still mistified why DOJ is so hands-off with criminal complaints for high level conspirators.
Misdemeanor complaints for insurgents is low hanging fruit.
Why aren’t the big wheels efficiently hauled into serious charges? Why isn’t Schiff pressing that question?
CCL
Was a little curious about his treatment of Representative Nadler. Not really a question for him, more of a working out of my own thoughts.
Dan B
@Dan B: One of my interests in a grassroots social media campaign is of it would be possible to influence the four Senators Adam Schiff identified as persuadable. They seemed to be afraid of attacks by Trump supporters and potentially lack of support from the RNC and large donors. Could we target those Senator’s constituents and/or donors? Instead of trying to reach the 40 million would a focus on the home states of the moderates and persuadables be effective?
And it’s a long term project to set up a progressive media on a national scale but much faster to perfect a social media campaign, perhaps just a year or two.
Dan B
@CCL: There’s a good number of pages about Nadler. It was interesting.
JoyceH
This has nothing to do with the book itself, or with the book club discussion but — when I went to Amazon to get a Kindle version of Schiff’s book, I saw that there were also three books listed that called themselves ‘summaries’ of the book. With prices like 3.99 Kindle and 10.99 paperback for something under 30 pages. WTF?
I’ve never seen anything like that before, did a little cursory searching and at least all the recent non-fiction political books have these ‘summaries’. Jonathan Karl’s book had about twenty summaries.
What’s going on here? Are people just cashing in on popular books, and who is buying these things?
Ruckus
@JoyceH:
My take would be – Yes, yes they are trying to cash in.
I’m still reading but even as far as I’ve gotten I can tell that this book can not be properly summarized in 30 pages. The issue is too big, too important and details matter. I saw those summaries when I brought the book and it was obvious to me that no one can summarize what went on and what it really means to our country in 30 pages. Look, I can summarize in a few words – “Some people did some shit on January 6, 2021 in DC and it was important for some people.” Bet I’m pretty damn close to the gist any of those summaries. OK 30 pages gives them room to use bigger words.
JoyceH
@Ruckus: I did some more research and a lot of books, best sellers and current events and ‘literary’ books have these summaries. I’ll bet I know who buys them – lazy book club members! (They just go for the refreshments.)
Middlelee
@JoyceH: I bought one of the summaries and it was a waste of my 99 cents or whatever minimal price I paid. A friend gave me the book for Xmas so everything worked out okay.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I imagine that some questions that many of us have, he will not want, nor be able to answer. I know I can think of questions that I’d bet 99% that he won’t/can’t answer. I think, and bet I’m not the first person to have this thought, that we should be careful about the questions we ask. I’m saying this is a great thing he is doing and I think we should be careful about putting him it a possibly very awkward position. I’m betting that this is not a new idea, I just didn’t want to get there without saying something.
Travels with Charley
Water girl – my question has two parts:
– it seems that our constitutional processes are too cumbersome and are now open to being mis-used (the tyranny of the minority). Do you agree?
– if you do agree, what can be done about it? Radical change would require changes to our constitution, which seems a heavy lift
note: only on chapter 18, so he may have covered this in his last chapter
Brantl
It being obvious that Democrats need to be more united on messaging, how could we have been more effective in showing Republican obstructionism into investigating Stump, so that there couldn’t have been an argument made that Stump had been investigated, and nothing had been found?
Betty
Theme 2 – Jan 6
To what extent did members of Congress, excluding those involved, anticipate the events of January 6th?
Do you believe the investigation has learned enough yet about the failure of security on January 6th?
Has the eventual posture of the Republican Party regarding January 6th significantly affected the likelihood of a Trump comeback?
Theme 5 – Looking Ahead
Congress is considering changes to the law to improve timely enforcement of subpoenas. What mechanisms are being considered and how likely is such legislation to be enacted?
In response to Republican efforts to interfere with free and fair elections, what strategies can House members undertake to encourage the Senate to remove the filibuster to get voting rights legislation enacted?
In light of the Republican response to both Covid and the events of January 6th, what is the way forward to restoring a working relationship between the parties?
Brant
I would like Mr Schiff to answer this: what can the minority do, in the Senate, to either assure that justice will be done to a willful criminal in the White House, or that the American people will plainly know that the majority party has stopped it from happening? Can the Senate arrest someone who’s in contempt of Congress?
Dan B
Another question for theme 5: Since people receive an ever growing amount of information and disinformation from privately held companies would you support legislation to give congress or federal agencies and investigative organizations greater access to their algorithms and business strategies so we have an idea if they are promoting disinformation or favoring a set of beliefs that could destabilize the country? And how could Balloon Juice followers pitch this to congress most effectively?
eddie blake
@WaterGirl: ok. so after finishing the book i had two questions:
1) in regards to the “stolen clinton emails” (p.87, p.93) it is not clear. HAVE clinton’s emails been hacked? are they “related to” or “DNC” emails? bc schiff calls them all three, clinton’s, related to and dnc, and i was under the impression that the russians were never able to hack clinton’s personal email server to get hers.
the second is in regards to mueller. (p. 152) schiff talks about interactions between himself and mueller as well as his staff and mueller. how is it possible that he was blindsided and unaware of mueller’s degradation and inability to forcefully testify?
(also, nadler is my rep; lil dude, big brain. that guy rocks.)
Argiope
I just finished last night and plan to listen to the Epilogue again. Here are my questions:
1) At one point, Rep. Schiff talks about the first impeachment hearings and about his quest to “win by losing”. There’s at least some school of thought in political circles that a movement can “lose forward” by running a race that is almost certain to fail, yet will bring certain issues to public attention that can set the stage for future victories. Or at least that’s how I understand it. Are there some ways to “lose forward” with the current batch of Republicans plus Sinema and Manchin, who seem to be set on keeping the voting rights laws currently under consideration from being passed?
2) At one point, Schiff refers to the current Republican party as a cult. I buy into this framing because I think it explains a lot of things about why the GOP was willing to toss over 40+ years of ideology in order to get in line behind a charismatic (to them) leader willing to say the quiet parts of racism out loud. Identity threats push hyperpartisanship and so does the perception that Republicans are losing the culture wars, and he attributes these factors (among others) to the alignment behind Trump in the Epilogue. He also says that the country doesn’t really work with only one functional party, and I also agree with this–we aren’t set up well structurally to have one party govern and have no new competing ideas from the other. So, given these two truths, what can be done to deprogram the GOP or otherwise drop-kick it into greater functionality and a will to actually govern, not just rule? If the issue is identity threat, how do we collectively lower the temperature enough so that people can come to their senses, or is that just impossible without a more responsible media environment? (I know what I think. I’d like to know what HE thinks.)