Trump’s bogus assertion of post-presidential executive privilege to shield White House documents from the January 6th select committee was shot down by an appeals court on December 9th. Yesterday, in a last-ditch effort to keep the documents secret, Trump went running to a US Supreme Court he personally stocked with what he thinks are three personal stooges. WaPo:
“President Trump is more than an ordinary citizen,” [future disgraced Trump lawyer Jesse R.] Binnall’s filing says. “ … He is one of only five living Americans who, as former Presidents, are granted special authority to make determinations regarding the disclosure of records and communications created during their terms of office.”
Nonsense. I’ll be surprised if even the three awful conservative hacks Trump installed go along with this bullshit charade. Not because they possess a shred of integrity or feel bound to uphold the US Constitution — they don’t. But like virtually all elite establishment Republican hacks, they probably view Trump as an embarrassing though temporarily necessary tool of destiny.
They believe they can safely cast Trump aside now that he fulfilled his purpose by elevating them to their ivory tower positions. I suspect that in their minds, Trump is merely a regrettable footnote in the otherwise unbesmirched biographies of conservative legal titans, so the less said about the crass oaf, the better.
Anyhoo, J6 Committee Chair Rep. Bennie G. Thompson also had a request for the Supremes:
“The Select Committee is investigating a deadly assault on the United States Capitol, the Speaker of the House, the Vice President, and both Chambers of Congress, and a dangerous interruption of Congress’s constitutional duty and the peaceful transfer of power,” House General Counsel Douglas N. Letter wrote.
“Delay would inflict a serious injury on the Select Committee and the public by interfering with this mandate,” he added, suggesting the justices decide by Jan. 14.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the Republican justices kick the can down the road a bit. The only thing at stake is the ability of one of three coequal branches of government to protect itself from a despotic attempt to destroy it perpetrated by another coequal branch of government. The Federalist Society hacks on the court would probably find that matter less pressing than a regulation that limits corporate power in some way or a ruling that thwarts the objectives of religious fanatics.
Open thread.
Cermet
Unless the inferior court declares that being a president is identical to being a King, there is no extra legal protection for having been a President. This is so outside any previous legal ruling or understanding of the constitution is so absurd to even consider such a stupid and brain dead idea that it goes beyond the pale: which guarantee’s Thomas the black dog will certainly say it is part of being an expresident and the other hacks will rule yes as well – but only applies to this one unique instance never to be used by any (dem) expresident.
Mike in Pasadena
The justices better figure out that they are the next target if they don’t allow the committee to do its work. Judges have a big target on their robes.
Danielx
@Mike in Pasadena:
They have lifetime tenure, what do they have to worry about?
And armed security too.
patroclus
Nixon had to turn over the tapes while he was still President. Why should ex-President Trump have more power than President Nixon? If the Court goes for this ludicrous argument, they will prove that they are utter hacks.
BigJimSlade
If the situation were reversed, and 3 judges appointed by a Democrat were ruling on whether that person would get this not-in-the-constitution privilege, wouldn’t the right-wing media be howling that they should recuse themselves? Will we get anything like that for this case from the non-nutcase media?
Original Lee
Open thread, so:
Do any of you Jackals have any personal knowledge of, or experience with, the Heartmate 3 LVAD by Abbott? A friend who is on the heart transplant list has had a recommendation from his cardiologist that maybe they should consider this heart pump instead, because of Covid affecting the supply of healthy hearts.
jimmiraybob
Attention bands looking for a name.
azlib
At least some of the Supremes know there repuation alone is their power. If they decide something ridiculous I suspect the two other branches will thumb their nose at them.
Mike in NC
MSNBC is showing the president and Dr Jill Biden visiting a DC area hospital on Christmas Eve. The Fat Orange Clown only visited his own shabby properties on Christmas Eve and charged the taxpayers for the privilege. He really needed the same send off that the people of Italy gave their dictator in 1945.
James E Powell
@patroclus:
United States v Nixon was unanimous. 8-0 because Rehnquist recused himself. We don’t live in that country anymore.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in NC:
Petty of me, but I love love love Dr Jill’s dress. She wears that style — big flowers on a neutral background — fairly often, and it really suits her.
Matt
I won’t be. I won’t even be surprised if they issue a ruling that explicitly states “this only applies to members of the Republican Party”; the conservative wing has no legal principles or precedent it respects apart from “BECAUSE I SAID SO”.
The first step to fixing the Supreme Court is removing all six wingnuts.
dr. bloor
Unlikely SCOTUS will even hear the case. That’s the easiest way out for them.
E.
I don’t know. This Court really likes executive power. I think this could go his way. They can always find a way to distinguish the situation should a Dem try it. And they need the J6 Commission to fail.
Geminid
I really like the composition of tbe January 6 Committee. It’s compact, with only nine members. They all are serious, capable people. Chairman Thompson, Lofgren, Schiff, Aguilar, and Raskin are in safe seats and don’t need to gain personal attention. Murphy and Kinsinger are both retiring, and don’t have career ambitions to promote, at least not short term ambitions.
Luria and Cheney do face tough reelection campaigns next year. Elaine Luria (VA-2) doesn’t seem like the grandstanding type, though. As for Liz Cheney, she apparently is very willing to do damage to fellow Republicans, maybe not as Republicans per se but as bad actors. Cheney seems like she’s really out for blood.
SiubhanDuinne
@Geminid:
Strange bedfellows and all, but I find myself hoping that Liz Cheney will win the 2022 Profiles in Courage Award.
Geminid
@SiubhanDuinne: Like I said, Cheney looks like she’s out for blood. And she won’t just be shooting birdshot.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: as Twitter Nixon likes to say, she knows how to hate.
(and as much as I welcome converts I can’t help asking why it took so long to start hating)
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don’t kid yourself. Liz Cheney is all Republican – just not a Trumplican.
topclimber
OT: The Hill (Politico for Congress) has a big story about how Jane Goodall is discouraging people from donating to charities like Heifer Intl that give farm animals to poor folk in low income countries.
She is upset about impact on water supplies, which is a valid point and also that local vet care falls short (which seems addressable by other means than denying people food aid). Less wonderful is that Politico does not mention she is a vegan. She even has a cookbook. So all those water-sucking chickens and dairy critters like goats MUST NOT BE ALLOWED.
The privilege takes one’s breath away.
ETA: Hill link.
SiubhanDuinne
@Geminid:
Very true, but she’s putting herself at serious political risk. What’s admirable — can’t believe I’m saying nice things about a Cheney! — is that she is brushing off the risk in service to a higher principle.
I don’t care how she votes on tax cuts or judges or spending bills, that’sThat’s almost unique today among elected Republicans and I respect it.ETA: I actually do care how she votes on those things, of course.
SiubhanDuinne
@topclimber:
Heifer International is one of my top charities. I’ve donated to them for years. I like and admire Jane Goodall, but sheesh.
japa21
@SiubhanDuinne: I truly believe she is at risk beyond political. She is in physical danger as well.
Suzanne
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m cynical enough to think that Liz Cheney is exhibiting some spine in service of pivoting her personal brand. The NeverTrumpers are a narrow slice, but they exist and I’m sure someone wants their votes.
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Liz Cheney seems like a classic Chamber of Commerce/Establishment Republican. She probably has resented the populist radicals for a while, but coexisted with them maybe because she still wanted to be Speaker some day. Trump and the Insurrection changed that calculation. Lynn and Dick Cheney did not raise her up to be a Lindsey Graham, so she is going to war.
I don’t think Cheney’s coming primary challenge will inhibit her Committee work. Cheney already drew the sword when she voted to impeach Trump, and now she has thrown away the scabbard.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne:
She very well may be — probably is — but it doesn’t detract from the fact that, on the issue of getting to the bottom of J6, she is doing the right thing.
SiubhanDuinne
@japa21:
Alas, I expect you’re right. I hope she has sufficient security protection.
Ken
@Geminid: To steal a line from Terry Pratchett, she understands that you can get more than one coat from a sheep, unlike the barbarians that have taken over the rest of the party.
topclimber
OT Again. Christmas present for the world.
During 2021, there were no credible local allegations of civilians likely killed by US strikes in Iraq, Libya, Pakistan or Yemen. The last one is the best news: proof the US is not going to let Saudi kingpin MBS use us for his executions.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid:
I’d say she’s from the hard-right edge of the Establishment– Neal Katyal reminded the MSNBC audience that Dick Jr once called him and other lawyers defending accused terrorists “the Al Qaeda Seven”, and I suspect until very recently her ambitions were still toward the Senate (and higher). But I’m sure from the two-story picture windows of their various chalet-style mansions with (multi) million-dollar views of the Tetons (and yes, I am a little jealous) the Cheneys sneer down at the rabble with burning and sincere contempt. She’s done more to fight trumpism than anyone named Bush or Romney.
Kay
@Suzanne:
I think it’s a bet that there will be a post-Trump GOP that reverts more to the norm. I don’t think it’s a bad bet, especially because she has no chance of advancement in a Trump dominated GOP.
Trump lost his reelect. He didn’t pull it out. He can and has denied it but is a fact and if he were actually unbeatable that shouldn’t have happened. George W Bush won his relect. So did Obama. Losers don’t set the Party agenda in Liz Cheney’s world.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@azlib: I don’t know. SCOTUS’s installation of W caused a flutter but then everyone moved on.
JoyceH
@E.:
Why would it? What ‘executive power’? Trump has no power, he’s a private citizen with a government-supplied security detail.
I think the dynamics of the Supreme Court are really interesting this year, what happens and what Trump expects to happen. All along, with all these BS lawsuits he files, his ultimate goal is to get it to the Supreme Court. He thinks that’s all he has to do, that it doesn’t matter how specious his legal arguments are. He expects the justices he appointed to vote in his favor – he thinks that’s what they’re SUPPOSED to do. (Which is all of a piece of Trump’s total ignorance about how government works, or for that matter how anything works.)
But – why should they? The Trump-appointed justices aren’t red hat wearers. They were names on a list supplied by the Federalist Society, the list that Trump promised to name justices from to get the establishment Republicans to vote for him. They have no particular affiliation with Trump. And now he’s out of office – what can he do for them or to them, ever again? In fact, I expect the Trump-appointed justices to give Trump filings extra scrutiny, and would be glad to vote against him to establish themselves as NOT Trump Minions.
And when they vote against his interests, he’ll rail about Betrayal – because he thinks they owe him, he thinks he OWNS them.
Baud
@topclimber:
Thanks, Biden.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
SCOTUS shouldn’t have gotten involved but I think everyone believed that the recount probably wouldn’t have gone Gore’s way if the process had played out.
Gary K
Good to know that Jimmy Carter has the power to assert executive privilege.
trollhattan
@topclimber:
She may be reacting to resource issues between herders and farmers/fishermen, such as what’s going on in Cameroon.
On a different scale than giving a subsistence farmer one head of livestock of course, but perhaps indicative of larger issues threatening village life across the continent. (Illegal grazing, Bundy-style.)
bemused senior
O.T. for those looking for King’s College festival of nine lessons and carols…try Spotify if you have access. (From last thread.)
trollhattan
@Gary K: The secret Billy Beer recipe shall remain safe for the time being.
laura
“President trump is more than an ordinary citizen.”
I CALL BULLSHIT. He ain’t president, he’s a loser who lost and his pushing back on the tide is an infinite source of ridicule and scorn and I am here for it! Here’s hoping the Court chucks his plea on the ash heap of history, and if/when they issue a decision or ruling ending this fail parade I will dance a fucking gig that will make my old hips ache.
Also, Liz Cheney wants to be President not Speaker of the House. And after the rubble and dust settle, she’ll be well positioned IMHO.
Suzanne
@Kay:
Agreed. I think this is positioning. I think it’s honest and I’m glad she’s doing the right thing, but she’s also being pretty outspoken about it so that when the media identifies anti-Trump GOP, she will always be the first name mentioned. It’s a marketing strategy. It’s self-positioning.
topclimber
@Kay: My own optimistic take is that the MAGATs will only lose supporters and the Never Trumpers will gain more as 1/6 revelations sink in.
Five minutes of intensive googling has uncovered no Democratic candidate for this seat. If enough Dems change registration to GOP (hold your nose but do it bro), could be a few more votes for Liz in an open primary. She only needs a plurality to prevail and now has half dozen opponents doing their best to split the vote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@bemused senior: there are lots of YouTubes too, at least one of the whole service
topclimber
@laura: If she wins as a Rep she can win as Senator. Wyoming’s Congressional District is the state.
zhena gogolia
@topclimber: My cousins out there have registered as Repugs for this reason.
BlueGuitarist
@Baud:
Gore would have won the recount.
the supervising judge, Terry Lewis, would have ordered recounting overvotes and undervotes. the consortium that looked at all the votes found that gore would have won with those criteria.
ETA won the votes, dk about more brooks brothers riots or state legislature bs
Kay
@Suzanne:
It can be both. It can be a genuinely held belief and also her only career path.
Mai Naem mobile
@Geminid: remember Mike Pence reached out to Dan Quayle about what TFG was asking him to do with no certifying the election…I believe Mike Pence also reached out to Dick Cheney. Dick Cheney also comes across as one of those kind of people who has people everywhere keeping him apprised of stuff going on so my guess is Liz Cheney knows a lot more of what went down than most of her congressional colleagues(GOP and Dem.) That’s why I believe she doesn’t have any probably sticking her neck out.
Suzanne
@Kay: Yes. My point is that she’s not being quiet about it, she’s attempting to capitalize on it.
Kay
@topclimber:
I don’t think it will go like that. There won’t be conversions or denouncements. They’ll just be a gradual softening of support and enthusiasm among GOP voters. The base managed to avoid the sting of the loss by denying it happened, but here we are a year out and…he still lost. They’re a year behind normal people.
topclimber
@trollhattan: I can’t read from the site without accepting cookies, which I am loath to do.
When it comes to herding folk vs fisher folk, vegans say “Both sides do it.”
But yes, more water wars are coming. Vegetarianism might help alleviate water demand, but probably about 10 times more effectively if applied to corporate farming than the subsistence kind.
ETA: 10 times number was pulled out of…the ether.
DonnaK
@Danielx: To paraphrase B. Franklin, they have lifetime tenure, if they can keep it.
Kay
@Suzanne:
Oh, agree. I don’t have any problem with it. They’re all insanely ambitious. She intends to be a leader or the leader of whatever comes after. She’s much tougher than the males in the GOP, that’s for sure. They’re all still groveling.
topclimber
@zhena gogolia:
Go all you Gogolias! (If not their surname, feel free to adopt them).
Geminid
@topclimber: Wyoming has fairly flexible primary rules. A registered Democrat or Independent can walk into their precinct on primary day, reregister as Republican, and vote in the primary. Some Democrats will do this, and probably even more Independents will also.
I would if I lived in Wyoming, just like I would vote for Impeacher Tom Rice if I lived in his Northeast South Carolina district. South Carolina doesn’t register voters by party, so it would be even easier. And in either state I could vote for whomever I wanted to in the general election.
Mai Naem mobile
There is a long story on ProPublica about Wyoming being kind of onshore mainland based Cayman Islands for rich people. Haven’t read it. ProPublica’s stories are always depressing or alarming.
Mai Naem mobile
@BlueGuitarist: IIRC Gore made the mistake of asking for a recount of only the counties he thought we would gain instead of the state. The Consortium found that he won in the whole state.
mrmoshpotato
Someone(two?) was talking about Scrooged the other day. AMC is showing it at 2PM Eastern.
burnspbesq
@dr. bloor:
Agreed. It helps that the D.C. Circuit got it exactly right.
narya
I find Cheney fascinating. Politically, I disagree with her deeply and profoundly, probably on more issues than I even know. But she has, indeed, thrown away the scabbard. I believe that many of the Rs have been compromised–that has always been the simplest explanation why so many lined up behind someone like TFG, IMHO–but that she is not, and that she recognizes the profound threat that that compromised state poses to her party and to the country. That said, there’s no guarantee that her current path will lead to future power for her, and I believe that some of her reasons for doing what she’s doing are for other than self-interested motives.
Ken
How can you do better than “Presidents are not kings, and plaintiff is not President”?
jnfr
I wish I had faith that the Supremes would do the right thing, but I do not.
Nonetheless today I am watching Scrooged and getting sniffly.
mrmoshpotato
Happy Fast Moose time of year!
Gary K
@trollhattan: That’s too bad, because it seems to be drawn from the Fountain of Youth.
Mike in NC
Saw my first “Trump/Desantis 2024” bumper sticker. Puke-inducing is an understatement.
MagdaInBlack
@mrmoshpotato: Thanks! I love me some moose.
Geminid
@topclimber: I wonder if any of those other Wyoming candidates are sponsored by Cheney’s father. Darth Cheney knows how to do these things without leaving fingerprints.
sdhays
@Mike in NC: As disgusting as it would be, I’d like to see some Desantis/Trump 2024 bumper stickers, especially driving by Maralago. Stir that pot.
Cermet
I would bet money that both Alito the corporate whore and Thomas scalia’s pet dog will both have reasons that an expresident can protect his legal activities in general – count on those two; the other AO’s, maybe not but those I wouldn’t bet against. But in any case, if they do support the king for life legal loop-hole, they’ll certainly narrow its reach to only this ruling for this occurrence.
Patricia Kayden
MagdaInBlack
@sdhays: I like that thinking.
debbie
@Patricia Kayden:
Toss some paper towels at him too.
Ms. Deranged in AZ
OT:. I finally got my BJ calendar in the mail today!!!!
debbie
E.
@JoyceH: I’m talking about future executive power. I agree with you that Trump is no longer the President. I believe a minimum of three, possibly four current Justices see themselves as part of a needed revolution in our Constitutional law.
Jean
My Balloon Juice calendar (A) came two days ago! I loved looking at all the pets and seeing their often imaginative names.
BlueGuitarist
@Mai Naem mobile:
Yes, a lot of the press coverage focused on gore wouldn’t have won with the specific recount he requested, but the judge supervising the recount wasn’t going to give Gore a narrower recount and instead was going to order the statewide recount of undervotes and overvotes, by which Gore would have won.
Gremcat
Captain C
@sdhays:
Or for even more pot-stirring: DeSantis/Trump, JR 2024
mrmoshpotato
Just finished Scrooged. What a crazy movie!
James E Powell
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I will never get over that. It’s my political “Niagara Falls! Slowly I turn. Step by step . . .”
Mike in NC
@mrmoshpotato: I’m in the mood to go see Groundhog Day again.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mike in NC: “It was better than Cats, I’m going to see it again and again…”
Jeffro
And that Kamala Harris has the power to accept or deny any given state’s electoral votes in 2024, because reasons.
Another Scott
ObOpenThread – ICYMI, …
Good, good.
(via eclecticbrotha)
Cheers,
Scott.
LiminalOwl
@Mike in NC: I’d prefer the Romanian farewell to Ceausescu as a paradigm.
(from Wikipedia, in case anyone’s memory needs jogging:
Nicolae Ceaușescu (left), President of the Socialist Republic of Romania from 1974 (and leader of the country since 1965), and his wife Elena Ceaușescu (right), were executed following trial on 25 December 1989. Subversion of state power by organising armed actions against the people and state power.
mvr
@azlib: As they should. In theory it is a good idea if the Supreme Court has legitimacy as a place to settle disputes without violence. And if this were a dispute between two branches of government it would make sense in this case. But it isn’t. It is about someone who isn’t president claiming a made up privilege that isn’t even in the text of the constitution but was mentioned once and then reified. Biden should just ignore the ruling if it forbids turning the docs over. The Supremes have undercut their own legitimacy on a regular basis starting in 2000 and reaching the current peak – we make things up to help the right wing mode of interpretation – in a short 20 years. They want to be the deciders they had better act like grownups. Which at least four seem incapable of doing.
Sab
@Original Lee: No direct experience, but one of my husband’s oldest friend’s brother got such a device. Not sure of the brand. He also got an all house backup generator to be sure he could always charge it. It didn’t keep him alive until a new heart was available, but he did have a much improved life for about a year and a half.
ETA That is how we first learned about all house Generac generators.
cain
@Suzanne:
if this strain of Republicanism passes, she’s going to be on top and she’ll find herself easily running for the Presidency. She’d even get trust on both sides.
I can’t believe when I say that I’d trust her to run a Presidency that at least adheres to some principles vs whatever shit stain of a politician that is on the bench now.
Grum Grumby
With respect to Liz Cheney, this article sums up my feelings pretty well, and this paragraph in particular is just epic:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a38514277/mark-meadows-texts-fox-news-trump-conservatism/
Mike in Pasadena
@Danielx: Second amendment people.
brantl
Sure, except for that little “torture” thing!
brantl
@narya: I believe that some of her reasons for doing what she’s doing are for other than self-interested motives. Cheneys don’t have those.
randy khan
@Baud:
There were and are competing views on that. I’m not sure there is a definitive answer, or that there could be.
randy khan
I really have no clue what the Supreme Court will do. On the one side is that the D.C. Circuit decision was really dead on point, that Trump can’t do anything to them now, and that it’s just the kind of opportunity to burnish their credibility that they should take. On the other side is that the Furious Five are utter Republican hacks. (I am willing to bet that Roberts votes against Trump on this one without hesitation.)
sab
Watergirl’s Christmas pies are really great.
Not in refernce to any nearby comment.
Geminid
@brantl: Pretty much all that wing of the Republican party went along with the torture. I am no fan of Chamber of Commerce/Establishment Republicans.* Their most prominent leader now is Mitch McConnell, and he’s very destructive. The term I use is just simplistic shorthand that covers what used to be the dominant wing of the party before the populist radicals put Trump in power.
* I take what we get from them, though. In 2018, Ralph Northam was able to push Medicaid expansion through the Virginia General Assembly with the help of 10 Republican Delegates and 3 Senators. That was pragmatic legislation that businesses wanted but was unacceptable to most Republican Assembly members for ideological reasons. By 2020, Democrats could have done it themselves. But in the meantime, 400,000 Virginians were added to the Medicaid rolls in time for the pandemic, and I think those 13 Republican legislators help save many lives.
Original Lee
@Mai Naem mobile: IIRC from reading the Consortium report, they counted the votes using 5 different sets of criteria for what the voter intended, and Gore only won using one set. Two of the sets had a very narrow win for Bush, and two sets had much wider margins. But as you say, Gore made the mistake of cherry-picking the recount instead of requesting a recount of everything. I’m still pissed at him for that.
Original Lee
@Sab: Thanks. I’ll pass that on.