On behalf of all of us, I just want to express to you, our dear readers and commenters, that it is a shame that we don’t have a front pager at Balloon Juice with the foresight to have accurately assessed that what happened today was what was going to happen today. And enough respect for you, our dear readers and commenters, to treat you like adults and tell you in no uncertain terms that it was going to happen and there was not a damn thing any of us could do about it.
I am very sorry that we let you down.
Now that that is out of the way, and I’m sure we all feel better, everyone should return to their normal pollyanish, obtusely naive view that everything is going to just work out and be just fine. Because Balloon Juice, like Dr Pangloss, exists in the best of all possible worlds.
Open thread!
Yutsano
You’re a barrel of sunshine today. :P
Raoul Paste
I don’t think you should be speaking for your fellow front pagers
Spanky
What fucking blog are you reading?
topclimber
Thanks for sharing your obvious pain over being right.
MomSense
As a fellow doom and gloomer, no need to apologize to me. I’ve always appreciated your honest appraisals.
Benw
What happened?
pat
And I thought the problem with BJ was that we were always down in the dumps and sure that things would never get any better.
Huh.
Craig
Look, if I can’t get someone around here that can accurately predict the future of everything, everyday, then I’m going to have to start thinking about cancelling my subscription.
debbie
Adam, okay, now that you got that out of the way, did you see this coming today?
Ruviana
I think Adam is challenging Cole’s status as Supreme Grump.
RaflW
@Benw: My question too. I read the Water Girl O.P. about Manchin, went off to do laundry, have lunch, etc, and now this apparent apology for ??
pluky
Dr. Paingloss? Fits though.
germy
“It is known.”
MagdaInBlack
Adam, you’re part of why I’m not the least bit surprised at what happened.
Eta: How he did it, maybe, but not that he did it.
Lyrebird
@RaflW:
I can be bad at detecting this, but I would guess this is satire and understandable frustration, not trying to harsh all over the something-positive post..
Kropacetic
Acceptance of harsh truths and a positive attitude are not mutually exclusive.
The Thin Black Duke
Not cool, dude.
Emerald
OTOH, Jennifer Granholm wrote on Twitter an hour ago, “This is not over, folks.”
That’s all.
Starfish
In the best of all possible worlds, you would also post a dessert recipe to go with your sassiness.
cmorenc
So, let’s start a discussion on which Democratic Senator named Joe is/was the biggest prick and 5th column traitor sabotaging his own party from within?
a) Joe Lieberman
b) Joe Manchin
c) other?
Xantar
Adam, if this is an attempt at satire, then you really need to sharpen up your writing because it’s clear a lot of commenters don’t get it.
Otherwise if I take this at face value, then this looks like gloating which is a bad look.
Starfish
@Xantar: Why won’t the commenters be nicer and focus on the positive accomplishments of the front pagers?
A Ghost to Most
Snicker.
Ruckus
@Craig:
This.
There are plenty of places to be told your fortune, your future, the direction and meaning of your sign.
This is the place for arguments and pet pictures.
Ksmiami
I knew it the second Manchin started backsliding. He’s just a POS. Hope he gets Covid and dies.
Ksmiami
@Emerald: I’m not listening to any more Dem Senators. Just stop it. Try to isolate Manchin and prep for 22.
eclare
Huh? I missed something.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
I with Adam on this one,
How did hard bitten, realist Juicers not see Urban Meyer being a disaster in the NFL?
Inconceivable!
Kropacetic
This Manchin shit today got me back into “abandon society” territory.
Reboot
So, to quote the English translation of Kropotkin, what is to be done?
Ksmiami
@Kropacetic: I think National divorce is sounding better and better…
gene108
Adam, your outlook on the current state of things is far, far too optimistic for my tastes. I’m a good bit more pessimistic than you.
Kevin the Hen
Need a sarcasm emoji or at the very least
</sarcasm>
Ksmiami
@gene108: I still win. Just waiting for Omnes to chime in and tell me we can’t upgrade our sclerotic government…
Adam L Silverman
@Reboot: The only play left is voting rights legislation and electoral reform and protection legislation. They will require Manchin to play ball on reforming the filibuster. It is already six weeks late to have passed these so that they would survive a court challenge that would set them aside for the 2022 election because the law was passed too close to the primaries. If they’re not done sometime in January you can kiss that effort good bye.
Kropacetic
@Ksmiami: We can’t have nice things. Clearly we can’t use taxpayer money on taxpayer needs. We need it to pad wealthy folks’ bank accounts and bomb foreigners.
germy
@Kropacetic:
In Soviet Russia, society abandon you.
taumaturgo
In a recent poll, only 22% of respondents wish for Joe to run a second term, credit the disastrous negotiation on the BBB bill as one factor. The party’s lack of guts has demoralized the base. Even after cutting the bill over 50% of the initial price tag, President de Facto Manchin ran rings around his buddy Joe, showcasing the conservative democrats negotiating non-skills on behalf of the working class. The white flag of surrender is up, the bullshit of passing the legislation lay bared once and for all to see. One would hope that this latest political malpractice fiasco would be enough for the faithful to hold accountable those responsible because come the midterm 2022 elections they’ll have nowhere to hide. For many of the esteemed legislators that left Washington on an underserved vacation, enjoy, for many of you it could be your last vacation on the taxpayer’s dime.
Adam L Silverman
@Ksmiami: We can’t. As the Constitution is written combined with the political realities of 21st century America, it is functionally impossible to amend the Constitution.
Emerald
@Ksmiami: Jennifer Granholm isn’t a senator. She’s the Secretary of Energy. As such, she’s in a position to know some things.
No idea what, though. She didn’t elaborate.
dopey-o
LEAVE ADAM ALOOOOOONE !!!!!!!!!
look, people, Snark and Satire were going to come to BJ inevitably.
And speaking of Dr Pangloss, a commentor on TPM brings news that human-favored tofu is now a reality! A little taste of Candide. Cheeky little bitch, Cunegonde.
The Thin Black Duke
Fuck this bullshit. I’m out.
germy
@Emerald:
I thought Rick Perry abolished that department.
MobiusKlein
@Starfish:
May I subscribe to your newsletter?
Ksmiami
@Adam L Silverman: burn it. It wasn’t supposed to last this long anyway
germy
Spanky
Oh, I see! This post is being used to separate the level-headed commenters from the WE’RE DOOMED contingent, who will be rounded up and
sent to a farm upstateretrained.Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Wow. This really comes across as gloating
germy
@Spanky:
PSYOP
lurker
really disturbing that you knew how poorly my haircut was going to go … you might want to get a hobby…
Emerald
@germy: If we’d followed the progressives we wouldn’t have anything now. We got the BIF, which is a BFD.
Kropacetic
@germy: Manchin was just the final straw. The entire structure of employment in our economy is bullshit. Every assumption is against the employee.
You have to be responsible by their standards; be on time, get your work done even if they double your work load with no pay increase, pretend to like it when clients are around.
What are their responsibilities to you? A reliable paycheck? They can cut your hours whenever they want, still get that doubled work done. Keep the business operating smoothly? Try cheapest operable tools and bare-bones staffing, just enough to keep you running around like mad for 8 hours before collapsing. If someone calls out, you deal with it.
But want a piece when profits soar? Shoulda been an investor.
Manchin wouldn’t pass this bill because it alleviates a small piece of some working people’s burdens. He wants to continue fostering dependency on malicious corporate actors.
ETA: Anyone looking for money from the government should toss on a hard hat and magically develop an aptitude for tools and heavy manual labor if they don’t already have one. We only care about hard hat jobs in this country.
WaterGirl
@RaflW:
You misunderstood. This is not an apology. This is a condescending in your face fuck you, I told you so.
In particular, it’s a condescending fuck you I told you so to those of us who believe that the future is not written yet and who believe that we have agency and should do everything in our power to fight Republican venality.
edit: Adam can say what he likes, but I still believe that the future is not written yet. I believe that we have agency and that should do everything in our power to fight Republican venality.
Marmot
@Adam L Silverman: I’m missing something, and not for the first time. After your doom plays out, what should we do. Oh, there’s nothing to do—got it. But what should we do *after that*.
Please, my side, have some forethought.
sixthdoctor
@cmorenc: oh, Lieberman and it’s not close. Well, OK, a little closer than eight hours ago, but still not close.
Omnes Omnibus
Dick move.
cassandra
@WaterGirl: Yeah – and on top of that I think Adam’s follow-on advice is disingenuous. He suggests that pivoting immediately to voting rights could save the republic in 2024…
But he surely heard Manchin say that he can’t do anything about the filibuster today. He must suspect that one reason that voting rights have not been pressed by the Dems is that they already know they do not have the votes. Certainly, later it will be possible for someone to say that we would still have democracy if only the Dems had pressed voting rights. But that won’t make it true. That will only shift the blame to those least responsible.
johnnybuck
@WaterGirl: Dick move, by a dick. The dude never surprises.
Tony Jay
Radical Centrists are going to do what Radical Centrists are paid to do, serenely confident that any attempts to pressurise or punish them for being slimy, lying fuckachuckers will be characterised by the News Media as the Second Coming of Adolf Stalin. Money and reputational protection, it’s a hell of a drug.
It’s shit wherever it happens, but there’s no profit it getting bent out of shape about it. Just send the e-mail to http://www.rentahitman.com and throw your time, money and good thoughts behind the cause of making sure the likes of Manchin aren’t The Uncrowned Kings of the Kingdom of the Possible when the next election is over.
debbie
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
You should hear the excuses being made for him here in OSU’s shadow.
WaterGirl
@cassandra: I’m not here to pick a fight or to badmouth Adam, but I did want to clarify things for anyone who was confused by this post.
Josie
@WaterGirl: You are on target. I refuse to believe that the determination to keep on fighting and to put one foot in front of the other as long as it takes is
notthe same as being a pollyanna.edited to remove the “not”.
WaterGirl
@Josie: you are correct; those things are not the same.
I think you want to take out your “not” in that sentence?
Josie
@WaterGirl: No, I am saying that continuing to fight even if with great difficulty is not the same as looking on the bright side.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: $25 to the Michigan thermometer because of this post.
Marmot
I just plain don’t get it. If this is the end of democracy, then we need to work on restarting it. Right?
WaterGirl
@Josie: I believe that you and I are in total agreement with our thinking.
It’s the bolded part of the sentence that makes me think you don’t want your “not” in there.
I refuse to believe that the determination to keep on fighting and to put one foot in front of the other as long as it takes is not the same as being a pollyanna.
If you go with just this part, the “not” stays:
West of the Rockies
I sense a disturbance in The Juice as if dozens of voices typed out in terror and were getting on each other’s nerves.
Josie
@WaterGirl:
Ah. I see it. You are right. Can you take the “not” out?
ETA: Thanks.
WaterGirl
@Josie: done! I can also delete our back-and-forth if you like.
edit: Though I guess all the repetition and clarification helps make the original point. :-)
Josie
@WaterGirl: Good point. I’ll leave it up to you. ;-)
Denali
@Watergirl,
Double negatives always leave me confused.
Almost Retired
Holy shit, what is the purpose of this post? I feel played by Joe Manchin, too. And I think the whole experience has made me a little less naive. But I hardly think having my nose rubbed in it in a not-particularly-clever manner is at all helpful. There’s a difference between panglossianism (is that a word) – which I think of more as whistling past the graveyard- on the one hand, and accepting the dire, dire circumstances we are in while also using what agency we have to mitigate the damage, on the other.
I appreciate the doom-posters at times, because it does serve to check my preternatural positivism. But I appreciate the “let’s do something” crowd much more. What if Watergirl had just thrown up her hands and said “we’re doomed?” Instead, she and others on this blog have micro-targeted organizations that can make a difference among critical constituencies in swing states, started organizing a database that can be used to target donations and non-monetary contributions to voting rights efforts, etc.
I’ll take Watergirl’s realistic take on our challenges coupled with proactive efforts over “I told you so” doom-posting.
Chetan Murthy
70 comments in, so I’ll dare an off-topic Q: I buy basil (both Italian (or “regular”) and Thai), and try to keep ’em going by cutting off the bottoms of the stems and putting ’em in glasses of water on the window-sill. They don’t seem to last long, but every now and then, a stem will keep going for quite a while. I don’t know what’s different between the ones that seem to die in a few days, and those that last for a long/long time. I’ve searched online, but nowhere can I find good instructions for how to keep basil going on the windowsill.
Maybe the answer is: “you can’t”. Anybody got any advice?
P.S. It’s esp. frustrating b/c I can only get Thai basil at one place (that doesn’t do curbside or delivery), and with omicron, I’m not going to be entering that place, nosirrreeeee.
Poptartacus
Geez take a break. Also I’ve already forgiven you for letting me down. Just like all the other times
germy
@Chetan Murthy:
A small jar of rooting hormone . Dip the the bottom of the cutting into the hormone and then stick it in some good soil.
Spanky
@Chetan Murthy: What do you mean by “keep going”? Just not wilting, or actually growing? We get it to keep fairly long by cutting the stems, sticking it in water, and then sticking the shebang in the fridge. Never tried to get it to root, though.
Quencher
Yes, the only play after Manchin torpedoed this legislation (which would not have diminished his political power in the slightest) is to rely on Manchin to play ball on reforming the filibuster which would eliminate the power that Manchin now holds in the Senate.
Who’s being naive, Kay?
germy
@Chetan Murthy:
Oddly enough, when we try to propagate a vegetable or spice from our commercial grocery store, it never works. But when we try the same thing with vegetables and spices from our farmer’s market, we’re successful. I don’t know why.
johnnybuck
@Almost Retired: Adam’s post’s here are designed to make you feel helpless, and hopeless.
He does it on purpose.
Chetan Murthy
@Spanky: Just not wilting. Rooting …. yeah, that’d be nice, but I just want it to stay not-wilted for, say, 2wk.
Kropacetic
Had to check if that was about OP or about basil.
debbie
@Chetan Murthy:
Maybe it depends on where you cut the stem, above or below a leaf node. Take a look at the cutting that lasts, and then do the same thing for future cuttings.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
hate-watching a football game, won’t say which team in the interest of bloggy comity that is very important to me, and I can’t help chuckle darkly every time I see the commercial for Susan Sarandon’s new business venture with the Murdoch family
Geminid
@Emerald: Jennifer Granholm was also an effective Governor of Michigan, and is a smart woman. I don’t think she is just trying to make people feel good when she says this isn’t over.
prostratedragon
In a situation where the future is not resolved, these two things might not the same:
What one “believes”
What one is willing to condition one’s actions on
Even in a bleak landscape nothing can be relied on to happen without someone conditioning on something that could lead to a better outcome.
gene108
@WaterGirl:
Accepting the likely outcome that Democrats are fucked in 2022, is not mutually exclusive from trying help Democrats win in 2022.
The 2021 state elections were disasters in NJ and VA for Democrats. Gov. Murphy has been popular since taking office. His re-election should have been easy. Citeralli, his opponent, found a clip of Murphy stating if you don’t like high taxes, NJ’s not the state for you. Played on an unending loop in his ads.
Then towards the end of the campaign Citeralli ran ads tying the Murphy administration to the failing Biden administration. Feeling comfortable running that ad in a state Biden won 10-11 months earlier shocked me, and Citeralli didn’t catch any blowback from it.
The Democrats lost seats in the General Assembly and state Senate. Democrats were completely wiped out in the most southern parts of NJ. Senate President Steve Sweeney, who represents those parts of southern NJ lost a delivery truck driver, with no political experience and minimal campaigning.
If whatever angry white people trends in NJ that hurt Democrats carriers over to the rest of the country, I don’t see how Democrats hold Congress.
prostratedragon
@West of the Rockies: Heh.
eclare
@Almost Retired: Great comment. Here’s to at least trying to do positive things.
Craig
@Chetan Murthy: I’ve always had decent luck by cutting the stems at an angle, wrapping a damp paper towel around them and then popping it in a bag that isn’t sealed. I don’t know what not sealing the bag does( more airflow?), but seems to work.
Geminid
@Denali: I never am not confused by them either.
Craig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: commercial gives the game away.
zhena gogolia
@Reboot: you mean Chernyshevsky?
WaterGirl
@johnnybuck: Adam and I could not be more different, so I am possibly the worst person to predict what Adam might be thinking.
But I don’t for a minute believe that Adam’s post are designed to make people feel helpless and hopeless. That may be the end result for some, but I don’t believe that is his purpose in writing what people are referring to as the doom posts.
eclare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Is that her new TV show based on Empire, but from a country music perspective?
jimmiraybob
I never feel let down coming here.
I’d already sussed out the situation and a few weeks ago commented that I wondered what the Republicans had offered Yacht Dude to jump ship. I’m guessing that he’ll have a better chance of reelection running as an R in West By God Virginny. So, technically, not shocked.
(checks notes; oh wait a minutes, I see he hasn’t officially announced yet.)
Anyways, forward march.
WaterGirl
@Chetan Murthy: This is marked as an open thread, so you don’t even have to wait for 70 comments to chime in!
Geminid
@Chetan Murthy: If you have a sunny window you could always try growing basil from seed. It would take a few weeks but then you might have all you can use.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Ha!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@eclare: tis
On topic: I’m so old I remember when Obamacare was dead. A couple of times.
Chetan Murthy
@WaterGirl:
I agree with you. Going further, there are people who need to believe we can win, in order to have the strength to keep going. For them, seeing posts that accurately assess the situation can be demoralizing. I get that.
I firmly believe that there’s a difference between diagnosis and treatment. And that one shouldn’t corrupt the diagnosis, in hopes of getting the patient to accept the treatment, howsoever unlikely-to-cure. Thing is, I suspect most humans aren’t like that: they’re more likely to accept a painful treatment, if they think the diagnosis isn’t dire. It seems irrational to me, but hey, *humans*.
Kropacetic
Truth. Though I don’t see how we avoid catastrophic harm to this country if the likely outcome happens.
I do want to keep fighting. This abandonment impulse I mentioned upthread has a lot to do with trying to gain some power back over my own life. I can’t fix the world, but I can stop participating in the parts I see as bad, even if that means I won’t be able to feed myself in the end. Some choice.
johnnybuck
@WaterGirl: cool… peace out!
schrodingers_cat
I am so old that I remember when we were told repeatedly by some front pagers how the military brass in the Tantrum’s cabinet was going to save us.
The Truffle
@gene108: Still not sure how anything can be predicted a year out.
Quencher
@johnnybuck:
Nah, his posts are designed to demonstrate that he is smarter than you.
By the way, in interests of full disclosure, did you know that he was assigned to ASOC joint command under the 1123 infantry intelligence brigade where he develops NJO and CYLL protocols for interface with 217th paper shuffler brigade?
Kropacetic
@The Truffle: You kidding? Anything can be predicted a year out. Watch.
I predict that next year the lizard people invasion will arrive on a solar flare, both their preferred method of quick travel and devastating to our communications.
johnnybuck
@Quencher: Nah, his posts are designed to demonstrate that he is smarter than you.
Yeah, that too..
Almost Retired
@Kropacetic: Yeah, but that prediction is rather obvious, isn’t it?
WaterGirl
@Chetan Murthy: I think we are in a really dangerous place democracy-wise, and some factors are not in our favor, not the least of which is that Republicans don’t seem to care about democracy and are willing to literally lie, cheat and steal to stay in power.
But I also believe that we can cannot predict the outcome of the elections based on patterns in the past, such as “the party in power always loses seats”, etc.
The old standard classic things aren’t good predictors anymore. That’s part of why polling isn’t useful in the way it was before. There are just too many moving parts to realistically be able to predict what will happen.
The table has been tipped completely over. The rules are broken, norms have been thrown out the window.
We’re in the middle of a pandemic. There was an insurrection and now we have an investigation. The supreme court may be about to toss the basic human right of women being able to control their own bodies right out the window. Republicans are attempting to overthrow democracy. Right out in the open!
There are way too many moving parts to be able to confidently predict anything.
So I look at where we are and say “holy fuck, we are in deep doo-doo”, but in the next breath I go to “and what are we going to do about it?” It’s time for action. On every front.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@gene108:
“Failing Biden administration”. Is this your framing?
Kropacetic
@Almost Retired: Sure…
Marmot
@WaterGirl:
Yeah, but when you say that, everyone pretends you’re not actually talking. What’s up with that?
Poe Larity
Did we give up when the Germans won Georgia in 2020?
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Everyone’s unproven premise is that if BBB passed, voters would reward Dems for it.
WaterGirl
@Marmot: I’m not sure what you mean by that. Can you explain?
Kropacetic
@Baud: Are voters likely to reward Democrats for not passing it?
johnnybuck
@Baud: Everyone’s unproven premise is that if BBB passed, voters would reward Dems for it.
Oh they will! Six years from now.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: We are also in the strongest economic expansion in years. That’s how Democrats won the 1998 midterms.
Craig
@WaterGirl: I’m with you. We’re screwed. Let’s solve that.
Josie
@Geminid: The trick is to get the media to emphasize this good economics news.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: There is zero evidence for that. Biden has already achieved a lot we need to own our successes instead of wallowing in disappointments and setbacks.
Baud
@Kropacetic:
Voters are likely to be indifferent.
Quencher
I think the path to victory is obvious: 1) we need to steadfastly defend Breyer’s decision to remain on the bench with the same fervor and intensity that we defended RBGs decision to do the same, 2) we need to redouble our efforts to insure that transgender women are able to compete against women in sports and compete for the same scholarships open to women because transgender women are women!, [Is there any issue more important than this to voters? I don’t think so] 3) we should demand that the police be defunded, 4) we need to demand that second graders be taught that their parents and grandparents are racist assholes, 5) we need to take up the example of California and San Francisco and decline to prosecute mere property crimes.
These are all sure-fire, winning strategies that are already popular among the very online, so I don’t see any possible downside.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Geminid: that and Republicans waaay fucking overreached on the Clenis
Also Newt Gingrich was a such a thoroughly repellent human being. The whole “the writers have gone too far” meme would have been useful as Newtie vowed to mention the Clenis at every opportunity as rumors about Calista must have been flying around Capitol Hill. Bob Livingston, Henry Hyde….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: I tend to agree, negative partisanship, GOP on GOP violence and the price of gas will probably be bigger factors.
James E Powell
@debbie:
Do tell.
Frank Wilhoit
@Kropacetic: …and the philosophical concept of employment is based upon denying that the steam engine was invented (just as the concept of national borders is based upon denying that radio was invented, and just as the concept of a public discourse is based upon denying that social media was invented, etc.).
Marmot
@WaterGirl: Never once have I seen a doom post or comment get to what we do next. Like Adam, PhD, here. But not limited to him.
You can ask, and nothing comes back. It’s completely bizarre. If the point is not to demoralize the audience, then what is it?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Quencher:
There’s so much wrong with this I don’t even know where to start. I mean, talk about strawmen! Did you get your talking points from the Gateway Pundit
And I’m calling it right now, you’re Amremarinte whatever the fuck RBG
Adam L Silverman
@Quencher: I don’t think it is going to happen, but it is what needs to be attempted.
Chetan Murthy
@Geminid: Paradoxically, a mere two years later that same expansion (which had not yet stopped) was a strong factor in getting Dubya the win, as I remember it.
James E Powell
@Kropacetic:
Are voters likely to reward Republicans for being against it?
Adam L Silverman
@cassandra: I’m not saying they can pull it off. I fully expect that Manchin and Sinema will block it like they’ve blocked BBB. But it is the only legislative play left.
Kropacetic
@Baud: More precisely; some voters will be indifferent, some will support it, some will be against it. Among the support group, failure to pass may drive opposition toward or at least failure to support Democrats. The oppose group is going to vote against Democrats anyway and their enthusiasm isn’t much of an issue because Republicans can just whip up any old outrage out of whole cloth at any time
In the end what is the right thing to do?
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Mostly excusing it and blaming it on too much pressure.
Another Scott
It’s a day ending in “y” so I guess it’s circular firing squad time. :-/
Funny, I’m not seeing much of anything from his fellow senators screaming that BBB is doomed, doomed, I tells ya. YMMV.
Have fun.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Almost Retired: The ONLY play in Wisconsin is Ben Wikler’s Wisconsin Dems. Notice that’s not who we’re supporting.
Geminid
@Josie: It always helps to have the media on the right side. But I think next year’s economic growth will be something people see in their own lives, and those of their families, friends, and communities.
zhena gogolia
I can’t work because broken right arm so came here for amusement and instead got fifty manchin threads
Kropacetic
@Adam L Silverman: Only
IBen Winkler’s Wisconsin Dems can fix it…Jim Appleton
@Geminid: My fav: you don’t (have, know, see, etc.) ________, do you?
Proper answer: yes I do not.
@Chetan Murthy: Problem is that basil loses flavor and texture if you do this at room/window sill temp. Either refrigerate your hydro, or better yet puree tons of farmers market basil in some oil and freeze.
Anonymous At Work
Not to worry too much. Last time someone was this autocratic, stubborn, and egotistical on a Senate floor, he was stabbed 23 times under Pompei’s statue.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Josie
@Geminid: Since you have been right about so many things, you give me hope. Thanks for that.
Adam L Silverman
@WaterGirl: My posts are intended to prepare everyone for what is most likely coming. What will be the most dangerous and deadly potential outcome. People need to be planning now. You have a little over two years to do so. Plans need to be made to get to safety. Especially if one is a visible ethnic or religious minority or LGBTQ. And, quite frankly, if one is physically or mentally disabled. Safety could be a state with complete Democratic control over the state’s government. It could be Canada or somewhere else. If we are very lucky it will not be necessary. But if we are not, then prepare now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Geminid
@Quencher: There is all kinds of bullshit that’s popular among the very online. I see very few actual Democratic politicians espousing the views you mention, though. Now that Lee Carter is gone (almost), I don’t know of one elected Democrat in Virginia who pushes that stuff, even if Republicans lie about that.
Almost Retired
@Adam L Silverman: That was sort of a “drive by” comment. Why do you think the efforts of Voces in Wisconsin are irrelevant and the State Democratic party is the ONLY play in Wisconsin?
Another Scott
@WaterGirl:
Relatedly, …
Cheers,
Scott.
Marmot
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah? Then say it next time.
Xantar
@Adam L Silverman: ok fine. And what’s the point of this post? Because it still looks an awful lot like gloating. If it isn’t, then you need to clarify that now.
Geminid
@Chetan Murthy: I don’t know that the economic expansion helped George W. Bush win in 2000. It didn’t put Al Gore over the top, but I would say that Bush won despite of the expansion.
different-church-lady
I’ve never been curious about Voltaire until this post, so I suppose this has all turned out for the best.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: You’re smart enough to know that the world is not binary. You should write that way.
IMHO.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chetan Murthy
@Geminid: I distinctly remember the rhetoric of “the economy’s so good, it doesn’t matter who’s in charge.”
Cameron
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Maybe West Virginians would elect Urban Meyer as Senator.
different-church-lady
You folks are really losing the plot: Omicron is going to kill half of us, and global warming is going to take care of the other half. This Manchin thing is but a tempest in a teacup.
Chetan Murthy
@Xantar: @Adam L Silverman: I appreciate Adam’s posts, and specifically I appreciate them because they focus on diagnosis, on accurate diagnosis, and don’t water it down in hopes of making it palatable.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Chetan Murthy:
@Geminid:
I suspect it’s a good bet though that ensuring general conditions will be more helpful than not for Team D
Kropacetic
@Quencher: 1) we need to steadfastly defend Breyer’s decision to remain on the bench with the same fervor and intensity that we defended RBGs decision to do the same, 2) we need to redouble our efforts to insure that transgender women are able to compete against women in sports and compete for the same scholarships open to women because transgender women are women!, [Is there any issue more important than this to voters? I don’t think so] 3) we should demand that the police be defunded, 4) we need to demand that second graders be taught that their parents and grandparents are racist assholes, 5) we need to take up the example of California and San Francisco and decline to prosecute mere property crimes.
Another option would be to stop advancing Republican propaganda on their behalf.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
In other news….
Another Scott
Be careful out there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I solemnly resolve to have exactly the right amount of panic.
Adam L Silverman
@Kropacetic: Wikler’s efforts may fail, but they are the only ones that have a chance to actually succeed. And only if Marc Elias can pull off a number of victories in Wisconsin’s packed partisan courts.
Cameron
Wow. This post is bubbling with so much hostility that I can probably cook my dinner on it.
Kropacetic
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry, I know little about Wisconsin, but I think the “only X can save us” framing is just dreadful and sort of Trumpian
It seems to me both groups would have a different bailiwick and, lacking a specific reason to exclude one, both are likely worthy of support.
Suzanne
Cory Booker has COVID, too.
Xantar
@Chetan Murthy: that’s what Adam’s previous posts did, and I never had a problem with them.
That’s not what this post is doing. This just looks like gloating that he’s right.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropacetic: I would offer an opinion on that, but I am obtusely naive so I will refrain.
Suzanne
@Omnes Omnibus: Obtusely is my favorite way to be naive, my friend.
raven
I was at the Garden Club xmas party and I got a text from Nancy Pelosi axing for money!
The Truffle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember the same thing. And also the right wing hysteria over the ACA. Those were the days. I am hoping something BBB related can pass.
Kropacetic
@Omnes Omnibus: Just sunshine and roses in your world, huh?
Adam L Silverman
@Almost Retired: The Voces effort is important. What everyone here who is funding it is doing is amazingly generous and open hearted and big hearted and you all should be very proud of what you’re doing, but it can’t scale the way Wikler’s efforts can if he is successful. Wisconsin is already too extremely gerrymandered to be effected at the margins. The only statewide effort right now that has the possibility of even getting close to having statewide strategic success is Wikler’s strategy and efforts.
Geminid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Speaking of gas prices: I happened to see my friend Stephanie today. She used to be a manager for a large local fuel wholesaler and retailer, but now is a service rep at the Honda dealer. She told me about a customer who was bitching about gasoline prices.
Guy: “You just watch! Gas is going to be five or six dollars a gallon by Christmas time!”
Stephanie: “Why don’t we make a bet? How about five dollars? How about fifty?”
They finally shook hands, on a hundred! Then the guy said, “Huh! You must be one of those leftists.”
Stephanie replied: “I just like betting. I’d bet on what color shoes that lady over there will wear tomorrow. But I did work at a petroleum products company for thirty years, and I’m tellin’ ya, there’s no way gasoline is going to be five dollars a gallon by Christmas.”
Considering that this oaf is a customer, Stephanie is reluctant to press him for the hundred dollars. But when he calls for service she might offer to let him buy his bet back for twenty.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropacetic: So I have been informed.
WaterGirl
@Almost Retired: Not just Voces de la Frontera, but also Four Directions in Wisconsin, where there over 98,000 voting age Native people, many of whom are not registered.
Adam L Silverman
@Marmot: I’ve said it before. Repeatedly.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: We have a two party system. American politics is exceedingly binary. But even if it wasn’t, there are efforts that are noble, and wonderful, and amazing that are inherently unable to be effective because they simply cannot generate the effects necessary to stop what is coming. And there are those that may have a chance. That’s the case with Wikler’s efforts in Wisconsin.
satby
Mercy me, a food fight? Don’t we have some incredibly inane post waiting in the wings to stupify folks? Have we all discussed what tree we would be if we were a tree?
Christ. edit: at both sides of this.
Kropacetic
It’s either team Doom or team Rose-colored glasses. Pick one or you’re just helping the other.
gene108
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
That’s what the ad stated. I think Biden’s done well, but he has taken a beating in public opinion since the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I went and contemplated my navel for a bit and come back to see that all is normal – that is, SNAFU. Situation Normal, All Fucked Up.
People are worried because worry is something that comes normal to some, it’s like a reflex. But worry is there because it is often necessary to start a plan of action, a point that causes the fight response to kick in. One of the thoughts I had is that all animals start out the same way, at best they can breathe and their heart works and their blood stays where it belongs. From there it diverges to a range of high to low to no abilities at something, hopefully something positive. And then it’s possibilities or liabilities. And then it’s the cool down decade or two. And then all possibilities for that individual are gone. Anyone’s personal travels may vary, in duration, in positive or negative, and that’s often due to other animals being douchebags. Or worse.
I’m going out on a limb here and stating that there have been no real democracies in the history of the universe. And that’s because some want more than their share, often far, far more. I see no resolution to this problem. None, nada, nothing. Because as close as we are to actually being a democracy, we really are not. Because, if in a nation of over 300 million humans, one person can fuck up the entire mess, it isn’t a democracy, it just isn’t. And if it is a democracy then we, all of us, the entire fucking mess, we have to make it work. How do we do that? By not crying “Woh is fucking me!” whenever the going gets a bit shitty. By recognizing that just because it looks bad, does not mean it’s over. As I stated above we all are living creatures, we all have different talents – or no talents at all, but that isn’t as important if we have a bit of competitive objectivity to ruminate on situations that befall us. Crying uncle and throwing in the towel and the bathwater with the baby in it does us no good whatsoever. There are ups and downs in any and every life and surviving them often takes a bit of effort. And often deeper though and preparation than which hamburger chain to go to for dinner. Which is how I took Adam’s post. I see that others do not think the same way as me.
Surprise, surprise.
Not.
Marmot
@Adam L Silverman: Maybe I missed it.
But then, why should these folks seek shelter? Right-wing violence (which I expect next)? Immediate imposition of the surveillance state? You always stop short, in my experience.
lowtechcyclist
@Adam L Silverman:
Why, so you can say, “I fucking told you so, you dipshits” again?
Did BBB not have to be attempted? Can we deal with climate change without passing any additional legislation? If so, let’s hear your solutions, o wise one!
topclimber
@WaterGirl: I for one forgive Adam. Just don’t ask me for what.
Kropacetic
Taken a beaten from…the best thing a President has done in my adult life. Worth it.
Reboot
@zhena gogolia: No, I was recalling an assigned book from one of my undergrad classes in Government. Recalling it incorrectly, apparently.
The Truffle
@Kropacetic: I’m talking about doomposters. Sheesh.
frosty
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know anything about Wikler and Wisconsin. Could you write up a post or link to an article?
O. Felix Culpa
Adam is not wrong about the peril that we are in, and I, for one, am working for our democracy AND making plans in case it collapses.
To wit (both from WaPo):
Geminid
@WaterGirl: That Wisconsin U.S. Senate seat isn’t gerrymandered, and it may be decided by a few thousand votes, maybe even a few hundred. As long as these organizations are efficient and effective, they are worth supporting.
topclimber
@Quencher:
Well, we sure don’t need more trolls.
satby
@Geminid: but possibly not just one of them.
Almost Retired
@Geminid: THIS! Plus the efforts to turn out Latino and Native American voters will impact future elections as well. But, to Adam’s point, I am looking into the Wisconsin state dem party as I finalize my end of the year contributions. I never think to donate to out of state party organizations, but this warrants further research.
O. Felix Culpa
I have never been a fan of tone-policing and, whether or not you like the “tone” of Adam’s post, I think it’s worthwhile taking his point seriously. We are foolish to think that it can’t happen here. There is nothing inherently wonderful about us that precludes the implosion of our democracy. We’ve already seen our norms broken and institutions weakened. We see Republicans attacking voting rights. We are in peril.
AND, there are good groups to support, and work that we can do to try to turn the tide. Both points are true, but it’s foolish not to take the screaming red warning signs seriously.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So the website traffic has taken hit and the front pagers have jumped on the doom porn trolling bandwagon in an effort to get traffic up and everything posted at Balloon Juice as shit worthless as anything in MSM.
So noted
Kropacetic
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m still waiting for these supposed Pollyannas to show up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Almost Retired: Wikler is good people, and he is creative and relentless. FWIW he was an activist even in HS, but came into professional politics as one of Al Franken’s people.
Baud
OT via reddit
Ohio Mom
Oh god, I’m sorry I read this thread. Really people, there is no need to be so snide and ungracious. So you didn’t like Adam’s tone, boo-hoo. Disagree with ideas, sure, but attacking people for being themselves should be beneath us here.
Adam has a somewhat unenviable role in life, which is to suss out the worst possible outcomes. Someone has to do that!
I don’t like being reminded of what shaky ground we are on. I particularly despair of being told I need an escape plan because that would be a huge challenge for my family.
But I am able to separate what I don’t like hearing from what is important to hear. Of course I hope Adam’s predictions are always wrong, I am sure he does too.
burnspbesq
Seriously? You can take your condescension and shove it right up your six. What any of us do to keep our spirits up for the fight ahead is none of your fucking business.
Get the fuck over yourself.
Chetan Murthy
@Kropacetic:
Oh, there’s lots of Pollyannas here. I don’t think they’re a problem, b/c most humans need to believe in the *possibility* of better outcomes in order to act. They’re the normal ones, and we who see things …. more clearly, are what the head-shrinkers call “depressed”.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
@Cameron:
West Virginia has a well known resentment of urbanites
Kay
Begins with “Senator Joe Manchin…”
BeautifulPlumage
Thank you all, I needed this thread. From the sly humor (Craig) to the passion, this has been energizing. I started a monthly donation to Wisconsin Dems in early 2020 & decided to keep it going based on Ben’s reputation. Haven’t donated to Four Directions yet but planning on it.
scav
Still more argle-bargle about the distinctions between defeatism, pessimism, being aware of possible negative outcomes and the wonders of magical thinking.
Winston
My preparation for 2022/24: Vote dems, donate to dems after the primaries. I hedged by changing my registration from dem to independent in case nazis take control and decide to purge anyone registered as dem. After all, I live in Florida in a bright red county with a crazy governor
eta: was up? spent the weekend streaming Witcher 2. Also Above us Only Sky. Uplifting stuff.
Another Scott
@Baud: Excellent news. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@satby: We have raised funds for two different organizations in Wisconsin so far – Voces de la Frontera and Four Directions.
That’s two.
Kropacetic
@Chetan Murthy: No lie, I’m pretty depressed about all this shit, myself. I don’t expect much good to arise from our current situation. Still, that’s no reason to kick people who are trying to keep a positive attitude, especially when kicking from the big chair. We all acknowledge challenges and that they are pretty dire.
No one here thinks everything is all hunky dory, not that I’ve observed. Anyone who does probably doesn’t spend a whole lot of time thinking about politics (since nothing needs to change).
Adam’s message that we’re in danger and should prepare is correct. That can get lost in personal asides and misreading the intent of whatever pushback he is getting.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Why don’t they try shutting up about it until they can actually deliver something?
They really still don’t get that this endless dangling and then snatching it back is fucking killing them with their base? Is the goal to get Biden to 30%?
What’s worse than just not delivering is this dithering and negotiating with themselves. There’s no reason to announce each proposal other than their own egos. It doesn’t help.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropacetic: Well said. Thank you.
Kropacetic
@Omnes Omnibus: I try. Apparently sometimes I even succeed.
Chacal Charles Caltrop
@West of the Rockies:
@Quencher:
both of you made me laugh out load
Reading the rest of the comments, I see not everyone picks up on Quenchers satire
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: You’re missing the point, and changing the subject.
You said the “ONLY” play in Wisconsin was to support Winkler. That’s not true. It’s not a binary choice.
What matters is that the total number of votes for our candidates exceeds the total number of votes for their candidates. Anything that helps increase the turnout for our side is a good thing.
(And yes, I saw your other reply.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Kropacetic
@Chacal Charles Caltrop: Maybe it’s because I quit Bill Maher too late in life, but quencher’s satire is plausible as sincerely held beliefs. They are more prevalent on our side than I would like and felt they needed addressing.
ETA: Bill Maher, the king of “our activists’ failings are more important than Republican elected officials’ failings.”
Chetan Murthy
@Kropacetic:
One of the reasons I feel Adam is 100% right here, and in all his “doomposting” is that people don’t understand the danger. I grew up in an area just west of Fort Worth. And I have a relative who’s lived there since 1975. And FFS, the situation is getting worse and worse there.[1] My relative doesn’t see and understand this: they just think “that was a bad situation I just encountered”. They, like the frog, are unable to notice that the water is getting hotter and hotter. To my mind, what Adam is doing, is warning such people that they need to look around with fresh eyes, and esp. to prepare exit strategies if it gets too hot.
Yeah yeah, we all believe this *bullshit* about “it’s one United States, and we can’t abandon good progressives and vulnerable people in (say) Texas or (say) Iowa”. But the *reality* is and will be that there are no-go zones where people of color and gender nonconforming people will be seriously at risk, and they need to prepare to get the fuck out, move to a Blue State or at least a Blue City.
Yeah, it’s expensive. A fuckton cheaper than emigration, a fuckton more expensive than a casket.
[1] I have specific examples to demonstrate this. Stuff that never happened 20-40 years ago, and happens now. Happened to my relative.
Kropacetic
@Chetan Murthy: I agree. I have no problem with his assessments. It’s all that extra shit.
Jackie
@O. Felix Culpa: Agreed. Adam keeps it real. We may not always like what he says, but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong.
We can HOPE he’s wrong – he has said the same, but burrowing our heads in the sand, covering our ears and chanting I can’t hear you, is pointless.
O. Felix Culpa
U.S. listed as a ‘backsliding’ democracy for first time in report by European think tank (WaPo):
I take this seriously, because part of my family grew up in Nazi Germany and I grew up hearing stories of those horrible times, and another part of my family was incinerated. A whole bunch of people in 1930s Germany thought reason would prevail and they would be ok, but it didn’t and they weren’t. I don’t want to be one of those people who waited until it was too late.
At the same time, the outcome for us is not predetermined and I still work for our democracy, for as long as I can. As bad as things are, it ain’t over yet. From the end of the article cited above:
Jackie
@Ohio Mom: Yes.
Lacuna Synecdoche
@Ksmiami:
I knew it the moment I read that the Progressive caucus was going to the infrastructure bill pass before getting a vote on BBB.
They had given up all their leverage, and there was always only one reason for Manchin and Sinema to demand that.
I have to admit, though, that I was surprised at how brazenly Manchin turned it into a Fuck You moment. I did think he’d at least (a) tell Biden first, (b) openly agonize about not being able to reach an agreement while announcing it, and (c) make the announcement through WaPo, the Times, and/or CNN instead of Fox.
WaterGirl
@Almost Retired: I am not a fan of most state Democratic parties, but you can’t go wrong with the Wisconsin state party since Ben WIkler took over in 2019.
Under his leadership, they have pulled a rabbit out of the hat more than once. You should read about the major successful (!) scramble when the rules were changed at the last minute.
Lacuna Synecdoche
@Emerald:
That assessment is incorrect.
The right, or more accurately it’s corporate sponsors, wanted everything in the BIF. It was always going to pass.
Kropacetic
@Lacuna Synecdoche: Just another giveaway to big hard hat and their corporate benefactors.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lacuna Synecdoche: if the right and their corporate sponsors wanted what’s in the BiF, why didn’t they pass it in the Congress when they had the trifecta? Or make a deal with Pelosi and Schumer in the one after that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
which corporate interest was pushing for $55 billion to clean up municipal water systems?
eddie blake
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: because tang the conqueror told them that the only way he would sign an infrastructure bill with them would be if they dropped all of the investigations into and oversight of his maladministration.
Kropacetic
@eddie blake: Even on infrastructure week?
eddie blake
@Kropacetic: lolol… every week was infrastructure week!
Kropacetic
@eddie blake: Should have passed easily then.
lowtechcyclist
Holy shit Adam, you knew all along that Manchin was going to blow it up today?? I take it all back – you’re the prognosticator of all prognosticators.
Ksmiami
@Lacuna Synecdoche: he’s just a worthless garbage person. He’s unworthy of his position and I hope he has a short, disrespected and miserable remaining life.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Woodrow/asim
I just got back from my 1st time away from the internet in nearly 2 years, so…yeah, salty.
We Progressives had a legislative setback. It sucks. Machin et. al. are as horrible as the Blue Dogs who dogged getting the ACA passed.
Tomorrow, I’m going to get up and figure out how I can help. Because I simply do not buy Adam’s premise that we, as a community, as a group of people, as a movement, are helpless in the face of the forces arrayed against these issues.
No moreso, and I say this likely too much, than my Dad and his peers were in the face of Jim Crow.
That is, yes, something of a naive approach. But it’s one that I submit history holds as true…just I also admit it never seems to look like that, within the moment.
Mike in Pasadena
@Anonymous At Work: Is that spelled Pompey? The guy who with 500 ships and 120,000 infantry cleared the Mediterranean Sea of pirates? That guy’s statue?
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: The one exception I’ve got here is that Wyden might be trying to Keep Hope Alive, which is a thing.
But really, before they announce that kind of crap they need to have Manchin on board.
Kropacetic
@MisterForkbeard: Maybe we should start small. See if we can get him to agree to help just one constituent making under, say, $40,000 per year. Go from there.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
Cheers,
Scott.
Ksmiami
@Kropacetic: I think the Dems need to stop dangling this and Biden can just EO a bunch of temporary measures to enhance the economy- tell the American ppl that Congress doesn’t work rn so he’ll do what’s right. Fuck it blow up the senate- it’s just anti-Democratic and senseless.
Geminid
@Lacuna Synecdoche: Just about every Democrat in Congress wanted that Infrastructure bill. Their only reservatons were tactical, whether it would be coupled with the BBB bill. The handful who voted against it got an earful about that from their constituents. That is, their actual constituents, not their national social media following or their base of so-called small donors.
Kropacetic
@Geminid: Fuck the BIF, just retrenching ourseleves in broken systems.
Kropacetic
@Kropacetic: If we can only govern by Republican consent, we might as well be expending our effort electing “better” Republicans.
Winston
Welp, maybe a #BOOJOEMANCHIN twitter tag could be established and a protest organization dedicated to discovering BooJoe’s whereabouts and being there to just BOO him where ever he appears might send a message or at least let steam off. I don’t subscribe to twitter, but it seems like that would be the place to begin. Pretty sure it would get around to kos, du, digby and WAPO, Huffco comments especially if follow thru protesters would show up where ever he goes. Just to stand there and yell “BOO”.
Geminid
@MisterForkbeard: I had to wonder about m Wyden when he came up with a half baked plan for a tax on unrealized capital gains, right at end of negotiations on the House BBB bill. It was a big story for a day. Then the chairman of the House’s tax writing committee pointed out that while he may not have been asked the answer was no anyway.
Geminid
@Kropacetic: Fuck elitists who despise working class people.
Starfish
@Woodrow/asim: Can we still like the Mothman meme?
Ksmiami
@Geminid: strip Manchin of his committee positions. Just be done
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
(Insert deer-eating-popcorn.gif)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The Manchin recession predicted by Goldman Sachs…
Geminid
@Another Scott: Roger Stone used to look lean and mean, but now he looks bloated. Kind of the opposite of Mike Pompeo’s recent change.
Ohio Mom
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Something tells me any recession will hurt me more than Manchin. I’ve heard he’s not running again, so what’s it to him?
Winston
@Another Scott: Yeah, the Roger Stone who says anything he could testify to could possibly incriminate him? That Roger Stone?
phdesmond
here’s a 9 1/2 minute animated film about human extinction, if it helps.
https://www.newyorker.com/video/watch/living-in-an-age-of-extinction
though maybe one needs a subscription.
Matt McIrvin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Meanwhile, left social media is pretty viciously blaming all this on “the Democrats” and Joe Biden, as usual.
Kropacetic
@Geminid: Not sure the intent, but so we’re clear; I work, hard. I have little of my own. Honestly, a lot the BIF will do is important and long overdue.
But it was also low-hanging fruit. I’m not about to get myself all hyped up because Ds managed the bare minimum.
The term elitist gets abused. Who’s elite? Construction work may be hard and taxing on the body, but it’s also mostly pretty well compensated and gets the respect of the public. Too many people act like this is the only type of work that has value.
Meanwhile millions toil in jobs that have their own stresses. These jobs don’t pay enough for a decent livelihood. Want more? Get a real job. It’s difficult to get the stability needed to build toward something better, whatever your goals.
Heaven forbid you have a health or financial incident or…dramatic pause…make a mistake. You’ll be beating back the repercussions for decades.
Besides, not everyone has the same aptitudes. And if everyone is a plumber, who do plumbers have as clients?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Afghanistan hurt. Inflation is what’s killing him. People’s costs are rising more than their paychecks. Plus, COVID is still raging. None of that is Biden’s fault, but the normies don’t believe that.
OGLiberal
I wanted to believe that Manchin said stupid shit but came through in the end, even if he forced us to take out some good stuff. Now, not sure what the fuck he wants and that idiot from Arizona can go curtsey off the edge of a fucking cliff. My wife and teen kids are very tuned in and they all want me to start looking for an exit strategy – ie, get the fuck out of this country. We spend half our time in NEPA and people are just fucking insane here. Our other place, Monmouth County, NJ, ain’t much better. I’m trying to downplay their alarmism but they have been more right than me recently. Tell me how I explain to them that we really should stay here in this fucking insane asylum. The gun shit alone terrifies them. And then there are the death wish anti-vaxxers, etc.
Chetan Murthy
@OGLiberal: You are not alone. If I thought that CA (and the Western states) would act as *states* to resist, I’d be 100% ready to stick around. But what I see is that in 2025, they’ll roll over and let the Fascists start their cranking-the-vise-down-on-the-vulnerable, and I am *not* here for that.
Newsom, Brown, and Inslee need to be on this *yesterday*, passing new laws every *week*, preparing our population for what’s coming. And they’re not.
The question is where we can go, who will have us, etc. Even there, better to be early, than late.
Suzanne
@OGLiberal: Yeah, I know.
PGH is pretty blue, but it turns red pretty damn quick one you start driving. And most people are not masking. I don’t know how this story ends well.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Things are getting better slowly.
TheAtlantic via GovExec:
Vaccines and boosters work. Mandates work. The courts are upholding them. More are coming. Far too many people are still getting sick and dying, but we can look forward to seeing this mess in the US getting under control in the not too distant future. And that will help us do much more to help the rest of the world.
Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
Geminid
@Kropacetic: Well, that makes two of us who work hard and don’t have much. I won’t benefit from employment opportunities created by the Infrastructure bill, but a lot of working class people will, and the higher wages earned will tend to raise the wages of others. And while much of the investment is in typical infrastructure, the bill has investments in upgrading the electrical grid and electric school buses, money for several hundred thousand charging stations, mass transit money including $10 billion for New York City’s subways and buses, and $60 billion for for passenger rail. The head of Amtrak said this would be tranformational, a greater investment in Amtrak than the total since it’s inception. A service map that hasn’t changed as the nation has grown by 120 million will finally expand.
I get irate because people’s perceptions of the Infrastructure bill have been poisoned by a bogus Progressive versus Moderate narrative. The bill’s clean energy provisions are ignored by people who know better, and it’s economic benefits are somehow cast as “pearls before swine.”
After the bill passed, I checked out the Twitter feeds of Progressive Caucus members Joe Neguse (CO), Katie Porter (CA), Veronica Escobar (TX), and Jaime Raskin (MD). They all talked up the bill’s benefits for the nation and their districts. They seemed as enthusistic as moderate New Democrats Val Demings (FL) and Tim Ryan (OH), who are making the Infrastructure bill a key piece of their Senate campaigns.
I’m angry also at Manchin’s obstructionism. But I never believed the story that the Infrastructure bill was Manchin’s bill. It’s our bill, and I think Speaker Pelosi did the right. thing when she decoupled it from the BBB bill. She knew we needed to put a win on the board, and she needed to quell the rancor in her caucus. And we need to start getting that money out the door.
Someone was arguing earlier today that Democrat will get wiped out in the midterms because that’s what always happens, that years like 1998 are exceptions that prove the rule. Well, despite Bill Clinton’s personal mistakes, Democrats picked up seats in 1998 because the nation’s economy was good in a way it hadn’t been for years. That will be how Democrats hold the House and grow their Senate majority next year. The Infrastructure bill on top of spending still to come from the $1.9 trillion covid relief package are what will make the economy thrive.
stinger
It’s one thing to advise, upon request, the military on how to prepare for worst contingencies. It’s quite another to suggest that individuals and their families prepare to leave the country for good. That’s neither the only nor the most efficacious action we can take, those of us who love this country, and for very few is it even a possible action.
Chetan Murthy
@stinger: With respect, *no*. Hard no.
I grew up in North Texas, and like many Texans, I endured horrific racism. I know gay people who endured far, far worse. We fled, and now get to live our lives free of that burden, in other places in America. Maybe you’re *white* so when the time comes you can just “blend in”. But we can’t, and there’s no way that I’ll submit to the regime I grew up under — no way.
There was once a Hamas commander who said that the suicide vest is the poor man’s F-16. I hope you understand my meaning completely.
To argue that vulnerable people should remain in-place in the face of a Fascist regime is the worst sort of idiocy. And yeah, I understand what the argument is for nonviolent resistance. I just don’t think the people I grew up with, are amenable to being *convinced* by nonviolent resistance, and besides that, I have a life, and my life is worth living, *too*.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: One other thing: I love my country, too. But I’m unconvinced that “we are the majority”, and, more and more, “I don’t think they want us here.”
What’s that old phrase? “America, love it or leave it.” One of us must leave: either them, or us. Which shall it be?
Another Scott
Meanwhile, … Speaker.gov from 12/19:
It’s not over. What passes early next year may not be called the BBBA, but lots of good things will get passed.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kropacetic
@Geminid: I hope you’re right. There is at least part of me that refuses to believe that we managed to get 10s of Republicans to vote for something that’s good for the American people. I’ve heard claims about the bill’s funding that bear further scrutiny. The money needs to get to projects, not financiers.
ETA: And I don’t anticipate a lot of direct, personal relief for myself from the BBB either, but I see that it is targeting a lot of missed populations.
stinger
@Chetan Murthy: Your life *is* worth living, and you must live it where you see fit and are able to do so. Should that be not in the US, I’d be sorry to lose your energy and determination and intelligence.
For myself, with a 94-year-old mother and a mentally disabled niece and great-niece, I’ll be staying where I am and doing my best with the tools — and friends — available to me. Call that the worst sort of idiocy if you please, but some of us have no means to move to a bluer state, much less to another country.
The rest of your reply seems to address issues I never raised, so, with respect, I’ll refrain from additional comment and simply wish you the best.
cynn
@Adam L Silverman: I can’t stop thinking of my kid. That’s all I got.
Ohio Mom
@stinger: Me too. I realized a long time ago (the GW years) that my family — two near retirement-age people with health issues and a young adult child with autism — was not going to be welcomed by any nation we’d want to live in. And we could not pull off sneaking in some place and living as undocumented menial laborers.
Frankly, it would be an effort to move to another state.
Chetan Murthy
@stinger: I was specifically referring to this:
I’m brown, and places like where I grew up are no-go zones for me. I’d like to believe that minorities in those places should stay put and try to change them; but I’m not an idiot, and I know that at this point, it’s hopeless and the best thing those people can do is GTFO, or at least plan for it.
Maybe California will be safe; maybe it won’t be. If the state stood up aggressively to resist, was seen to be very publicly putting plans in place to resist, then I’d feel comfortable and safe here. But I don’t see that happening; instead, I see that the day after President (Fucking) Trump is inaugurated for his second term, the state will roll over and pull up its belly to be dispatched. And I’m not gonna stick around for that. I believe in government, I believe in public goods, and I believe that government is how we solve problems bigger than any one of us. I also see nothing that convinces me that government is going to rise to this occasion.
Ramona Rosario
@sixthdoctor: Definitely Lieberman is the worse of the two. He’s still blabbing about the importance of centrists not yielding to progressives. I think he’s written a book about that recently. I still remember his boasting in 2009 how he was the single vote of 60 to kill the option of opening Medicare to 55 year olds if they were willing to pay a premium. Lieberman is a sonuvanOgre Asshole!
Another Scott
@Chetan Murthy: A few things give me solace:
Do what you need to do. But don’t give up.
Cheers,
Scott.