Federal investigators descended Tuesday on the Lower Manhattan headquarters of the NYPD’s Sergeants Benevolent Association, the union headed by fiery and controversial president Ed Mullins, the Daily News has learned.
While the details of the probe remained under wraps, an FBI spokeswoman confirmed to The News that the agency was “carrying out a law enforcement action in connection with an ongoing investigation” into the SBA.
A spokesman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York declined to comment as to the purpose of the raid or its target.
I have no idea what this is about, but I hope the penalty is hard time.
lollipopguild
“A Policeman’s lot is not a happy one.”
Kent
Anyone who’s been around the halls of power as long as Mullins no doubt has LOTs of corruption buried and waiting to be found. My guess is tawdry financial corruption of some sort. Like union dues making their way into his personal accounts. But that’s just a wild ass guess on my part.
Betty Cracker
I read this and thought to myself, “Is that the guy who gave an interview on Fox News with a Qanon mug visible in the background?” Yes. Yes it was.
Unrelated to the police action outlined above as far as I know, but I’d like to reiterate that vaccine mandates are a once-in-a-lifetime, golden opportunity to root out the kooks, squirrely secret organization members and oppositional defiant-disordered babies currently infecting public service payrolls without arduous investigations, etc.
Mike in NC
Well, it goes without saying that any probe of the corrupt cops in NYC has to involve the filthy criminals of the Trump family. Water is wet, etc.
Baud
None dare call it a raid.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
The secret conspiratorial internet society sells swag?
JMG
Cops almost never go down for acts of violence against unarmed civilians. They do, however, go down all the time for stealing. In just the past two years here in Mass., a number of members of the State Police and the head of Boston’s police union have been indicted (with several guilty pleas) of faking hours of overtime they did not work.
hells littlest angel
Sergeants have their own fucking union? Ludicrous.
Kent
@Betty Cracker: For sure. In every profession. I’m a teacher and the anti-vaxers are the worst and most toxic teachers of the bunch. My wife is a physician and the anti-vax nurses are the worst of the bunch. I expect it is the same in every profession.
PaulWartenberg
@hells littlest angel:
NYPD is THAT big. Five boroughs, 9 million residents…
Jay C
Sorry, John: hopeful as we might all be to see corrupt cops/cop officials get the axe. it sounds like “what this is about” is likely:
1. As Kent says above, some sort of grift/scam/hand-in-the-till “financial irregularity”
2. It is extremely unlikely to result in any sort of real effect on the NYPD, because NYPD…
Though we can always hope.
Kent
@hells littlest angel: It actually makes some sense. You don’t normally have both labor and management in the same union. And to some extent, sergeants are “management” in that they supervise and discipline lower ranking officers.
For example, I work in education and principals are NEVER in the same union as teachers. Principals are management and teachers are labor. The first thing that happens when a teacher gets promoted up to some sort of assistant principal job is that they leave the teacher’s union.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Kent:
It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
burnspbesq
Could the Feds be investigating civil rights violations by the NYPD? I think that’s too much to hope for, but I’m going to hope anyway.
More likely they stole so much that they tried to stash some offshore, and forgot to file FBARs. Or sold drugs seized in raids to an undercover DEA agent, which would put them in the Dumb Crime Hall of Fame.
hueyplong
Next on FoxNews, Patriot Cops Persecuted By Anti-American, Communist Dems!
— Beloved FoxNews Contributors Not Immune To Vicious Abuse
WhatsMyNym
@hells littlest angel:
Supervisory staff, common for them to be in separate union no matter what business or organization.
PaulWartenberg
There may be several things here:
JMG
Union members pay union dues. Best guess is Mullins was skimming the take in some way, either directly or by directing union investments in ways that lined his own pockets.
scav
The word Benevolent has certainly been tortured and misused and forevermore trashed beyond recognition by its association with such enterprises.
SWMBO
I wonder if this was triggered by the Pandora papers? That would certainly be a more financial angle than civil rights one. It has happened conveniently close but that doesn’t mean causation. Also in the Pandora papers, I have wondered if the name Trump came up?
WhatsMyNym
@scav: Police can never be associated with a union, it’s bad for their image.
Betty Cracker
@Kent: Yep. It’s like a catch-all for selfish, militantly uninformed pricks who make workplaces more toxic. I can’t think of an easier and more effective way to get rid of the worst of them in one fell swoop than to enforce that mandate.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: WaPost columnist Catherine Rampell had a great column on that, from August 12. Worth the click.
WaPost: Good riddance to all the anti-vax police officers
[NOTE from Elizabelle: In the weeks since this column was published on August 12, we are finding that 90 -95% of employees comply with vaccine mandates, sometimes up to 99%. See United Airlines, healthcare and hospitals. These police union types were and are blowing hot air. It’s an idle threat. Compliance has also been very high in the military, once the mandate was ordered. Once again, would be a great way to clear out the hard-right extremists and budding secessionists and terrorists.]
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
That’s assuming the police actually follow through on quitting rather than getting vaccinated. I don’t think that’s going to happen. People talk big about quitting rather than getting vaccinated, but that’s mostly an attempt to scare their bosses into not mandating vaccination. If they are actually put on the spot, most of them knuckle under and get the shot rather than actually quitting. I sincerely doubt the police will be any tougher on the issue than anyone else; their unions are just better at scaring the bosses into doing as they want.
Elizabelle
I would love to see a raid, excuse me, descending upon the NYC FBI Field Office.
Although perhaps a lot of those anti-Hillary bozos have retired on their comfortable pensions by now.
Clean that rat’s nest out. That may be happening. AG Garland runs a professional ship, not a lot of leaks emanating from DOJ.
Roger Moore
@hells littlest angel:
It makes some sense. There’s a big conflict of interest problem with having the same union represent bosses and rank-and-file members. To avoid this, NYPD has separate unions for the different levels of police: one for regular officers, one for sergeants, one for lieutenants, etc.
Kent
@JMG: Or just taking bribes to do ordinary stuff like provide cops to do private security work, look the other way about stuff, etc. He has both a lot of power and controls a lot of money. He could either be selling power or stealing money or both.
WaterGirl
@hells littlest angel: That does seem ridiculous.
Kent
@Roger Moore: In the hospitals and other organizations that have actually followed through and fired people the percentage of dead-Enders seems to be running about about 0.5%. But if they are the right 0.5% it will still be a big improvement.
WaterGirl
@Kent: What you are saying about separation of management from labor makes sense, and that’s how it nearly always works.
But just sergeants? is there a separate Lieutenant’s union? Captain’s union? etc.
That’s the part that seems crazy to me.
The Moar You Know
@Betty Cracker: Sadly, the worst employee in our entire company, the CEO, is vehemently pro-vax (and yeah, hard Trump supporter, lifelong Republican, hardcore racist – but pro-vax!) and was literally the first one in the entire company to get it. There are some other numpties who are going to get the mandate announcement in the next few days who I’d be very happy to see gone – but I am betting right now every one of them save for one special snowflake (who already has lawyered up) will cave.
Redshift
@scav:
Hmm, I disagree. It’s meant to convey that the organization is benevolent to them, and aside from the odd bit of skimming and corruption, it seems like it is. Benevolent for the rest of us, not so much.
Elizabelle
OT, a tad: WaPost:
Baud
@Elizabelle: Didn’t Texas pass a law against that?
MattF
I expect (and hope) that Giuliani will be dragged into this in some way. He has a long history of being aligned with the very worst elements in the NYPD. So, here’s hoping.
Ken
@Baud: There’s a remarkable number of companies that are telling state governments “ha ha ha No.”
germy
lowtechcyclist
@Elizabelle: Yay! Christmas travel to Tampa will be a bit safer.
germy
Maybe the feds are just “union busting”
Most likely some financial shenanigans. Mullins must be royally pissed.
Elizabelle
@Baud: WaPost: Earlier story; American announced vaccine requirements last week. A lot of airlines serve as government contractors, and decided to fall into line with Biden’s mandate. Good. Texas can cry in its beer. American Airlines is headquartered in Forth Worth.
lowtechcyclist
@Ken:
And the state governments might try to enforce their no-mandate rules on the small fry, but they’re not going to motivate a big outfit like Southwest to move its HQ elsewhere.
germy
The medical examiner up here in northern NY refuses to be vaccinated:
https://wnyt.com/albany-new-york-news/vaccine-mandate-leaves-status-of-rensselaer-county-autopsies-unclear/6260002/?cat=10114
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Oh, and who was the one taking selfies of his new “I helped destroyed Western Civilization” T-shirt with Soros in front of the microchip tracking booth at the last Trilateral Commission convention Baud?
Roger Moore
@Baud:
Southwest is an interstate carrier, so they can more or less ignore state law on that.
cain
@germy: ha! If the charges are skimming – those union members are going to be pretty pissed.
Elizabelle
WaPost today: Kay will be happy: Garland asks FBI to address recent ‘disturbing spike’ in threats against educators
I think this is great. Bring the FBI down on the people fomenting these actions. Make them paranoid for real reasons this time. I think you are going to find an interconnected web of violent snowflakes. Also, that a lot of this horrible behavior is not grass roots at all. It is bad actors. We have already learned recently that Koch people are behind some of the mask resistance (didn’t a memo on that surface last week)?
AG Garland has dealt with terrorist organizations before. He knows what to look for.
Ksmiami
@lollipopguild: from Endeavor?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@PaulWartenberg: NYPD has 55,000 employes. If just 1% of them are nutters, that’s 550 armed thugs.
germy
@cain:
Everybody gets their beak a little wet sometimes.
Kent
@WaterGirl: Yes, actually I think they do have separate unions for each rank. I think the collaborate closely on issues that affect all police. But they are separate when you go to your union rep for some sort of disciplinary issue.
Ksmiami
@Elizabelle: Give them something real to Cry about for a change.
Elizabelle
@Ksmiami: Exactly!
germy
@cain:
Here’s how the rank and file are responding to the NY mayor’s remarks:
Well, this guy is a retired cop. But still a proud member of the blue team.
Omnes Omnibus
“Being a cop’s a hard job, Jack.”
– Reggie Hammond.
Ken
@cain: That was my thought. In a movie, they’d release the guy with a statement “Although we have evidence that he was skimming from the police union, we feel that this is an internal matter best handled by the union itself.”
scav
@Redshift: Ah, so Benevelent has joined the ethical universe of Moral and Bible-Believing where their abortion, pillaging, rapine and insurrection is righteous while anyone else’s actions are not.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: Omnes, did you see this? Some fool raised a Confederate flag at Rose Barracks, Vilseck. Hearing that they have not yet found the perp.
WaPost:
germy
He seems
nicebenevolent, though.Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Someone is going to be in a shitload of trouble.
Doug R
@hells littlest angel:
If they can discipline lower ranks, you can’t have them in the same bargaining unit. That being said, unions for middle management seem like a good idea considering how many hours middle management is forced into.
Baud
@germy: Lock him up.
Baud
@Doug R: I thought managers weren’t allowed to unionize. Is there an exception for police?
Where is Steve in the ATL when you need him? Literally not here.
GoBlueInOak
“Not all cops are bad. Its just few a bad apples!”
Sergeant’s union elects total retrograde, sexist QAnon Trump Humper as its President.
“NOT LIKE THAT.”
NotMax
@Elizabelle
“To infect and serve.”
//
germy
germy
Here’s a story from ’19:
https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-police-union-boss-sorry-for-sharing-racist-video-i-have-black-friends
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Also, in the old days, I could have seen something like that as a drunken prank by some lieutenants after a regimental event. I would have gone with a pirate flag to avoid bad connotations, but anyway. In today’s environment, I would not presume innocent intent.
lowtechcyclist
@germy: I bet he lost his black ‘friends’ real quick after sending out that video.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: Although it sometimes does have its downsides, preemption via federal contracting requirements is a legal doctrine that will neutralize state laws that would purport to prohibit private businesses from requiring their employees to be vaccinated. From firsthand experience, just about every major carrier has a contract with the USG to transport cargo, personnel or both. Texas cannot enforce a law in a way that would make it impossible for a business to carry out a federal contract. The difference between Trump’s people and Biden’s people is that the latter actually know things like that, and which levers of power are most likely to yield results instead of just public relations sound bites.
Sloane Ranger
@Ksmiami:
Gilbert and Sullivan. From The Pirates of Penzance
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Surmise the Trump flags are kept under more secure lock and key.
//
germy
@lowtechcyclist:
Well, that was in 2019. A hundred years ago. He’s grown since then.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus:
Should add this interesting part. The Confederate flag has become more prevalent in Germany, which has banned swastikas, as an emblem of far right politics. Heritage not hate, hardly.
Here’s the Bernstein article; looks good: University of Southern California website:
Germany’s strange nostalgia for the antebellum American South
While the confederate flag is used by the far right in Germany, there is also a long history of the American South being romanticized going back to the publication of Uncle Tom’s Cabin in 1852.
Martin
It cannot be overstated how corrupt the NYPD and FDNY unions are. My dad’s cousin headed the FDNY union during 9/11. Not saying they didn’t do a fair bit of good there, but the family stories are unreal to the point we don’t associate with that side of the family any more. I wouldn’t shed a tear if they all got locked up.
And NYPDs union is unquestionably worse.
M31
@Elizabelle: oh man, someone’s going to be in a pickle
oh wait, Vilseck, not Vlasic
never mind
Fair Economist
@Elizabelle: Turns out United Airlines has had a flood of applicants now that they’re requiring vaccination. I think it’s no accident that Southwest, American, JetBlue, and Alaska all decided to impose vax requirements in the past week. They have to so they can compete for new hires.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Hence, the pirate flag if intent was innocent. The Confederate flag has a shitty meaning both here and there.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
I think it’s a real failure of local policing. They have all the tools they need to investigate and charge threats against public officials. It didn’t need to be federal. Public schools in particular are heavily regulated.
Here’s Tennessee:
It’s odd. Local police have never been this stumped about how to use the criminal code before. Weird that they can’t come up with anything at all they can charge these people with, so it just continues for months and months.
gvg
@Jay C: FBI though. I wouldn’t expect them to bother with small time?
Elizabelle
@Barbara:
It’s been lovely, hasn’t it? Under New Management.
Barbara
@germy: I went to Wikipedia and found that, for the NYPD, “Of the entire 35,783-member police force in 2020: 47% are white and 53% are members of minority groups. Of 23,464 officers on patrol: 43% (10,162) are non-Hispanic white. 57% (13,302) are Black, Latino (of any race), or Asian or Asian-American.”
Maybe this is a side issue for the people who are members in the union that Mullins leads, but IMO it is unpardonable that Mullins speaks as if more than half of all NYPD officers simply don’t exist, or, for instance, that a goodly number of them don’t actually live in some of these locations.
Doug R
@Elizabelle:
That NYCFBI office saw a former Senator and Secretary of State who had served their state and country well. And they backed the mobbed up crooked money laundering real estate promoter? SMH.
Elizabelle
@Kay: It is a failure of the locals. Which is why they had to call in the feds.
I am very glad to see the [allegedly parental — ha!] terrorism against school boards become a federal issue.
It is going to be fascinating to untangle the web of these very bad actors.
Mike G
@Elizabelle:
AG Garland runs a professional ship, not a lot of leaks emanating from DOJ.
But not a lot of prosecutions of coup plotters, either.
germy
@Barbara:
He said “real” police, so I guess in his mind some are real and some… aren’t.
Elizabelle
@Doug R: I know. And they were Giuliani’s pals and leaksters.
We are not safe when those people are in sensitive positions. I am glad that the Biden administration is looking closely at all of this.
While the press is covering a horse race, I am sure the administration is avidly pursuing all these threads, because one cannot count on more than a 4 year term to be a corrective to so much corruption and bad actions.
Betty
@JMG: I read that this was also about false overtime claims.
Cacti
Large organization run by right wing Republicans.
I’d say that there’s a 100% chance somebody had their hand in the till.
Elizabelle
@Mike G: Hoping the situation there is “yet.” Quite sure the DOJ is highly interested in what is developing.
gvg
@Redshift: I think the tradition it comes from is an organization of peers that would make sure their own widows and orphans got something if they died. It’s a very old kind of name that goes back quite aways. Pre reliable pensions and insurance I think.
I am not saying that they are great now, just that the name is old.
Betty
@Elizabelle: Absolutely. They had a role in that election along with Giuliani. A story that needs to be told.
Benw
It’s official, my in laws are adopting a cat! 11 yo brown tabby named Tomato, aka Toto.
smith
I was wondering when we’d start seeing stories like this. If I were looking for a job today, I’d definitely be asking about vax policy at any prospective employer. Another thing I’m hoping to see is tradespeople noting whether they and their employees are vaxed or even directories of service companies with good vax policies. There is no way I’d want an unvaxxed plumber or electrician working in my house, nor do I want to go to an unvaxxed dentist.
germy
@Benw:
Always nice to adopt a senior.
They know the rules, just show them the litter box and the food dish, and they’re good to go.
Betty
@Baud: I am familiar with first line supervisors having their own union. They too have issues separate from top management.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike G: Yet.
Doug R
@Elizabelle:
I don’t want to sound too paranoid, but considering the Russian influence on right wing groups AND their pushing the anti-vaccine crap, it wouldn’t surprise me Putin’s involved. See also the Koch’s long history with Russia.
gvg
@smith: There is a gas station I have passed that has 100% of our employees are vaxed on their sign……
quakerinabasement
@SWMBO: Too soon. The papers just got exposed. The FBI doesn’t usually act this quickly.
Elizabelle
@smith: Vaccination status turns out to be excellent shorthand for eliminating the crazed, easily duped, and types who value themselves over their community or customers/clients.
Win all around.
Doug R
@Baud:
I know that Boeing for one has a manager’s union.
JoyceH
I feel kind of like – ‘what TOOK them so long?!’ It’s not like it’s going to be a difficult investigation or prosecution when a lot of these really blatant threats are on video.
lowtechcyclist
@Fair Economist:
Not to mention, keep their existing staff. If I were working for a company that wasn’t requiring vaccinations, and a competitor that I could do pretty much the same work for was requiring vaccinations, I’d be updating the old resume in a hurry.
@germy:
:-D
JoyceH
It depends on where you live. My county is something like 40% vaccinated. I certainly wouldn’t go with an unvaccinated dentist, but for house work, I don’t ask – I just wear a mask and stay out of their way. I’ve noticed that all the repair people will wear masks if I ask them to.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
Yeah, it’s obvious when the police are actively avoiding enforcement. For me the obvious one here in the LA area is the sheriff’s department avoiding enforcing mask mandates on public transit. The sheriffs are responsible for fare enforcement and other law enforcement functions on our public transit system. Before the pandemic, they were a reasonably common sight on the train, and they would never pass up a chance to hassle a homeless person. Since the pandemic started, I think I’ve seen them on a train once. It would be a perfect chance for them to hassle homeless people- they’re among the worst offenders for not wearing masks- but they have completely passed it up. I guess refusing to enforce mask requirements on public transit is a higher priority than hassling homeless people.
smith
I wonder when we’re going to see breathless reports in the media about all the employees quitting because their employers don’t have vaccine mandates?
lowtechcyclist
@Mike G:
@Omnes Omnibus:
What Omnes said. It takes time to build up airtight cases, and that’s what they (and we) want. Give ’em time to do it right.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle:
I just wanted to see that again.
The Moar You Know
@Kay: We had an incident in our district last week where groups of terrorists came on two high school campuses during school hours and tore down all the mask signage and replaced them with signs stating that “vaccination and masking = child abuse”. They’re on multiple videos – unmasked. The police were called. They showed up well after the terrorists had left.
The cops just have no idea what to do.
The terrorists could just as easily have been carrying guns instead of signage.
Roger Moore
@smith:
How about never? Does never work for you? Seriously, political slant of the news media has never been more obvious. They’re more than happy to take the side of anti-vaxers, whichever side that might be.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
Narrator: There is always an except for police.
Benw
@germy: that’s the plan! Then sit back and await the snuggles and icy glares :)
lowtechcyclist
@Roger Moore:
Here’s an example: Some anti-vaxxers overturned a mobile Covid testing stand in NYC, and the cops were in no hurry to stop it, or so much as hassle the perps.
Who were white, of course, since black people would fully expect that doing the same thing would quickly find them face-down on the pavement with their hands cuffed behind them. Nah, there’s no such thing as white privilege.
smith
@Roger Moore: This is something that actually puzzles me. The only way I’ve ever been able to make sense of the media’s bias is to remind myself that their reportage always revolves around the needs of oligarchs. Granted that there are some wealthy RWNJs who largely determine what appears on Fox News, but the “respectable” media has always seemed more in the service of mainstream corporate powers. Those powers appear to have largely woken up to the fact that anti-vax activity is prolonging the pandemic, and that a prolonged pandemic is bad for business. Thus we’ve seen a number of large corporations establishing vax mandates before any state or federal requirements were in place. Have they forgotten to tell their handmaidens in the press?
Old School
@smith:
Well, obviously, those stories are covered by reporting on the poor business owner having difficulties finding employees due to Biden giving them too much money.
Bodacious
@Elizabelle: After checking with “my” airline – Delta, I’ve fired off a letter saying that I would not want to switch to a different carrier, but, if in the future they cannot guarantee that their flight crew and gate staff are fully vaccinated, I will have to choose another airline that has an employee vaccine requirement.
Why they have not adopted a mandate, I do not know. They will only begin to charge unvaccinated employees +$200/month healthcare starting Nov 1. Not good enough for my health.
burnspbesq
@JoyceH:
Priorities for the 80-odd U.S. Attorney’s offices come down from the Executive Office for United States Attorneys, which is part of Main Justice. This only became a priority yesterday.
Also, any new cases arising from this will have to be shoehorned into AUSAs’ already ridiculous caseloads. And it remains to be seen whether the FBI will fully get with the program.
Finally, the idea is not to get indictments and lose at trial due to half-assed preparation. The idea is to get convictions (or guilty pleas, which are even better from a resource-management perspective). Building airtight cases takes time.
All of which is a long-winded way of saying “expectation management, y’all.”
geg6
@smith:
On that note, we had a tech in yesterday to check the furnace before winter settles in and when he knocked on the door, he showed his vax card before coming in. This was different HVAC company than the one we usually call (having trouble getting an appointment with the old one) and they are now #1 in our book. Not only are they apparently concerned with customer safety, but the guy was super nice, he found stuff that the previous people should have taken care of (minor stuff, but stuff that could cause big problems down the road) and it cost less for a whole lot more work.
lollipopguild
@Ksmiami: Pirates of Penzance
catclub
@Elizabelle:
If I were a pilot and vaccinated I would refuse to fly with one who is not, in a small cockpit at close quarters for hours at a time.
Kay
@Roger Moore:
“We don’t know what to DO”
Really? A huge group of adults blocking a high school entrance and not allowing students past is just not at all covered in our 5 million word criminal code? They can use disorderly and then (inevitably and always) resisting, like they do for every other conceivable offeense. That’s without even going to “school” which has its own special subset and enhanced protections.
catclub
@gvg:
:
which brings out my refrain: “Important if true!”
Kay
@Roger Moore:
It’s just ridiculous. Did these people object when their children were sent home from school for lice or scabies or pink eye? You’re not entitled to infect other children in a public school. There’s no “right” to that. It doesn’t matter at all if it’s “mild”. It never mattered before.
smith
@geg6: It’s great that there are small businesses doing this proactively. Small businesses and self-employed people are the weak link in getting to a high enough vax level to get ahead of covid. They are not, by and large, affected by either state or federal mandates, and such companies are much more likely to be run by Trumpists than most other enterprises are. There will have to be consumer pressure applied, and it appears that in some places at least that’s being anticipated.
.
Sure Lurkalot
@lowtechcyclist:
Hard to disagree while at the same time feeling disgust at how slowly the wheels of justice grind for some. Giuliani and Goetz…how long before they’re charged? The freaking AG of Texas has been under indictment for years.
Wish there was a finer line between getting it right and getting it done. The wrongdoing becomes lost.
Barbara
@smith: Small businesses are the least likely to be able to compensate when employees or owners get sick. I realize that anti-vax mentality is rarely a reflection of reasoned self-interest, but if it were, this issue wouldn’t even be close. And while I am thinking about it the relationship between wellness so-called “influencers” and the anti-vax movement is just driving me crazy. When someone says that they plan to rely on “natural” immunity, wtf do they think a vaccine does? The vaccine allows your body to establish “natural immunity” to the disease.
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
where are they going to find such a high paying job that requires little to no education.
geg6
@smith:
I have to say, we were shocked. This is a very Trumpy county with only slightly over 50% fully vaxxed. We barely leave the house. But the owners must be smart. This is also a county with a large proportion of elderly residents and I know that if I owned a small business, I would insist on my employees being vaxxed for fear of being sued if we infected someone.
The Moar You Know
@geg6: it’s not a concern for the small business owner because there is literally no way to prove that a specific person infected someone else. You can make an educated guess, and it will likely be right, but without strict contact tracing under quarantine combined with daily testing you can’t even narrow the pool of potential infectors down to one group of people, never mind individuals.
Which of course is why so many small business owners simply don’t give a fuck, and surely don’t fear being sued over spreading COVID.
catclub
rikyrah
@catclub:
I know that’s right.
Mallard Filmore
@lowtechcyclist:
Will the investigation be done in time to keep the traitors out of elections next year? Will the DOJ honor the tradition of the 90 day pause before elections?
smith
Also the ones that can’t take too big a hit in lost customers. But some people can only learn from experience (and maybe not even then).
Roger Moore
@smith:
I think there are two things going on:
geg6
@The Moar You Know:
Well, maybe not sued, but certainly word of mouth could hurt business if your employees are infecting people. And help you if it goes around that your company is very safety conscious.
Cowgirl in the Sandi
We have a heat/AC tech coming tomorrow. I asked the company if he was vaccinated and they said they can’t say as it violated HIPPA (her spelling) laws. So, can I ask him for his vaccination card when he gets here?
catclub
Useless innumerate news from CNN:
But how many flights are there in a week? 45000 per day in the US means 300000 per week so 128 incidents
is less than one per every 2000 flights. Atlanta airport has 1000 flights per day so that would be one incident at atlanta airport every other day.
PaulWartenberg
They also raided the union president’s home. I’ve seen that before usually involving illegal kickbacks/embezzling, ’cause they’re grabbing personal bank records and stuff. Money shenanigans.
smith
@Roger Moore: I guess in my naivete I expect the media to be sensitive to when the interests of the oligarchs diverge from those of the Republican party. The non-nutsy oligarchs seem to understand where their interests lie vis a vis the pandemic, but I seem to be giving reporters too much credit.
Just Chuck
@Cowgirl in the Sandi:
It’s not even remotely covered by HIPAA, but that’s a bog-standard wingnut squid-ink response. If the tech is vaxxed then great, but I’d give the company a miss from now on. And let them know why of course.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Elizabelle:
It’s gonna turn out to be some E-6 from the Provost Marshal’s shop feeling “economic anxiety”.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Omnes Omnibus: My understanding is that in Germany, the Confederate flag serves as a replacement for the swastika since that symbol is illegal in German
ETA: Ah, I see Elizabelle beat me to it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Martin:
Its almost like everybody completely forgot about the revelations triggered by Frank Serpico.
Roger Moore
@smith:
I think it’s a mistake to lay the blame on the individual reporters. Reporters don’t set the reporting priority and overall tone of the newsroom; that’s the job of the editors and publisher. This is very much a problem that comes from the top.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
“We’re sorry, but it’s just a strong set of opinions stated by freedom loving, hard working Americans. Don’t know what you’re going to do about it. Wish we could help, but we’ve got more pressing needs, what with the number of black motorists driving with overtinted windows, making wide turns, rolling through stops and having issues with intermittently inoperable turn and brake signals.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Dorothy A. Winsor: This occurred on an army post. It was probably Americans. Or there is a whole different security issue that needs to be addressed as well.
Hoodie
@Cowgirl in the Sandi: you can ask him anything you want
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@PaulWartenberg:
“I’m busting’ my ass out heah, keepin’ the streets safe for jerks like youse. You begrudge me a taste? Me?!!!? Youse is nothin’ but punks!”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Cowgirl in the Sandi: So that company is full of it and you can ask whatever you want. So can they.
HIPAA applies to health care providers. They can’t share their patient’s records without the patient’s permission.
The education equivalent is FERPA. I couldn’t share my students’ records without their permission. I couldn’t even say if they were in my class. But an employer can sure ask them if they have a degree and what their major or GPA was.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I guessed it was Americans, but they knew what they were doing and what it meant both in the US and in their host country
lowtechcyclist
@Just Chuck:
The short version AIUI is, HIPAA keeps others with privileged access to your confidential medical records from revealing your health information to others. But it’s your health information, and you can always share any info you want about yourself. (Freedom!)
So the tech coming to Cowgirl’s house can tell her whether s/he’s vaccinated; HIPAA’s got nothing to do with it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Elizabelle: They also a big Dukes of Hazards fan bois their Germany, so it’s can both racist and cheesy stupid at the same time.
smith
@Roger Moore: Yes, I stand corrected — the tone is set ultimately by publishers. But wouldn’t you expect publishers in particular to be attuned to the needs of corporate powers? Most likely the depressing answer is that the only thing that really matters is whether they have to pay taxes, and we know which party can be relied on to ensure that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Speaking of confederate flags: Because it’s about history and heritage, in Michigan.
The Moar You Know
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The “Fuck Joe Biden” flag is interesting. I’ve seen a couple around here. Very professionally done. Would REALLY like to know who’s funding that; I suspect the inclusion of the word “fuck” may turn off a lot of the suburban mom vote (gotta explain that to the kids because they WILL ask) but I wouldn’t know and am probably wrong.
Baud
@The Moar You Know:
Someone made a video called something like “Meet the Americans who want to fuck Joe Biden.” I haven’t watched it, but I’ve seen it referred to.
Kay
Gin & Tonic
@Just Chuck: This. That response is Bullshit with a capital B.
Elizabelle
@catclub: I know. That 30% non-vaccinated pilots estimate is appalling.
They’re not just pilots. They are vectors. How irresponsible.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: What’s the clearance, Clarence?
Benw
The cat is a smashing success! She’s sweet and snuggly with the FIL. My MIL is over the moon!
Nora Lenderbee
@Kay:
Please proceed, guvnor.
zhena gogolia
@Just Chuck: We had a guy come today to service the furnace — no mask. He was in the basement the whole time, but I was pissed off. I haven’t called the company yet.
Baud
@Kay:
Where are the McCloskeys when you need them?
Kent
@Elizabelle: I wonder what percentage fly international routes. I can’t imagine very many countries are willing to put up with anti-vax Americans landing in their midst on a daily basis.
WaterGirl
@Benw: So happy to hear that!
Elizabelle
@Kent: I was wondering that myself. Europe, and the Caribbean. Not to mention Asia and Africa. Where it’s much harder in many countries to get vaccinated. I would not allow those fools off the aircraft.
They can’t all be flying the Tennessee to Wyoming route.
debbie
I know people have complained Merrick Garland hasn’t moved quickly or decisively enough on the 1/6 insurrection. Incidents like this would indicate otherwise, I would think. I think he’s been very busy and very quiet about what all he’s up to.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: The article states that United mandates vaccines that are required by any country that the individual might be flying into, including unusual ones like yellow fever, which is required by some African countries. So, presumably, anyone flying European or Asian routes was already subject to a vaccine requirement.
Mary G
I’ve had all kinds of people working on my bathroom and giving me estimates for roof replacement. I inquire about vaccines and make it clear masks are required in the house and they’ve all complied.
We got .32 inches of rain yesterday against the average 3.1 so far, but far better than the zero of the past couple of years, so yay!
J R in WV
@Cowgirl in the Sandi:
Hell Yes!! Of course you can. Just ask to see his card, tell him he can’t come in without that! His choice.
prostratedragon
@MattF: Just got here, so don’t know if this has been mentioned, but there’s finally an article re-examining that cop riot outside City Hall in 1992, one of the featured attractions of which was none other that Rudolph Giuliani. I’ve been crying out in the wilderness about this event almost since it happened. Good to see it getting aired. (h/t digby)
Just Chuck
@prostratedragon: The link in your comment doesn’t seem to actually be clickable for some reason.
mvr
Solidarity with the other Delta.
prostratedragon
@Just Chuck: Yoiks! Sorry about that, and for not seeing this sooner.
Let’s try this link here.
ETA: It works.