To stymie the congressional investigation into the January 6th coup attempt, Trump is trying to claim executive privilege to shield documents that account for his and his minions’ activities that day. But the Biden White House favors disclosure, according to The Washington Post:
Trump has said he will cite “executive privilege” to block information requests from the House select committee investigating the events of that day, banking on a legal theory that has successfully allowed presidents and their aides to avoid or delay congressional scrutiny for decades, including during the Trump administration.
But President Biden’s White House plans to err on the side of disclosure given the gravity of the events of Jan. 6, according to two people familiar with discussions who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the private discussions.
The article cites a bunch of experts, including lawyers who served Democratic administrations and in pre-Trump Republican White Houses, and the consensus seems to be that post-executive privilege isn’t a thing. Unsurprisingly, one of the two* go-to celebrity Trump-defender legal beagles disagrees:
“There is an unbroken tradition of deference by the incumbent presidents to their predecessors,” [GWU Professor Jonathan] Turley said. “In the past, incumbent presidents would generally support their predecessors in restricting access, despite partisan differences. It appears we may be poised here to shatter that tradition.”
In the past, incumbent presidents weren’t dealing with predecessors who claimed they won an election they lost and incited violence to cling to power. Dump those docs!
*Alan Dershowitz did not weigh in.
Baud
Haha. Turley is a tool.
Bill K
If Turley is against it then I’m for it. He’s a constant apologist for right-wing craziness.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Oh, so traditions and norms are supposed to matter now that it’s a Republican that can be burned? GTFO with that BS Turdley
MisterForkbeard
Wait, Jonathan Turley came out with a contrarian point of view that with great sadness supports Republicans and put the blame on Democrats for being the people REALLY at fault? Imagine that! No one could ever have seen that coming.
Also, speaking of document dumps the Cyber Ninjas are going to finally ‘present’ their Arizona Fraudit findings. On a Friday afternoon. After hinting that they couldn’t find anything. Nice.
Villago Delenda Est
Put them on the Internet at once. Even if the USSC issues some sort of idiotic order, it’s too late, the bell has rung.
germy
He will.
Villago Delenda Est
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Turley needs a tumbrel ride. No two ways about it.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I can’t believe how fucked up this country is, and all because 35-40% of the country has an absolute veto over all the rest of us. Something is going to break, and I’d rather it be sooner than later. The longer this tension builds, the uglier it’s going to be when it breaks.
germy
The horse paste cured their covid? I thought they were all hospitalized.
hueyplong
Legal privilege itself has a crime-fraud exception, as the weasel fascist apologist well knows.
MisterForkbeard
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It’s also crap – Trump and his toadies published a number of internal Obama White House documents that selectively and badly quoted Biden and Obama in order to pretend they did something untoward.
It’s only “unprecedented” because Biden and Obama didn’t try to pretend they should block it.
ETA: And @hueyplong has this right – if they suspect there’s a crime in there, they should just release it anyway. Privilege (if it existed) is completely moot.
MisterForkbeard
@germy: Evidently they had a severe case and I guess they’re both fine again now, or something.
steve g
In the past, presidential candidates supported the selection of the next president by election.
Yes, if by tradition you mean selecting the next president by a general election.
MJS
@Villago Delenda Est:
This, exactly. No, “Hey, we’re thinking of doing this, any objections?” Just. Fucking. Do. It.
opiejeanne
@MisterForkbeard: All two of them.
I really want to rant and roll around on the floor, foaming at the mouth today, but I’m too tired of being astonished that anyone could think this way. Any of these ways.
Jeffro
“unbroken tradition of deference” – oh please. Tell it to Mitch “Garland-nope! Coney Barrett-yup!” McConnell.
Jeffro
@Villago Delenda Est: totally agree
Put it all out there. Then go, “whoopsie!” just for giggles.
Jeffro
I’m quite confused about trumpov & Co’s objections here:
bnateAZ
I’d like to shatter Turley. Contrarian fuckwad
DFH
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Exactly what I thought. Compare this response to that of the WH press corpse when only Boris took questions from the press, his UK press. Uh, so it’s okay to be called “enemy of the people”??? Where was the complaining then?
Mike in NC
No Executive Privilege for fascist traitors. Remember all that time Trump spent jerking off as “Executive Time”?
burnspbesq
Put the docs on a server that any Anon can hack with one hand tied behind their back. Then wait.
Roger Moore
Executive privilege needs to be massively reined in more generally. I can understand screening some stuff in an attempt to let advisors be candid in a way they might not be if the public were looking over their figurative shoulders. But that shouldn’t be an excuse for hiding everything forever. If you’re so afraid of giving advice because you’re worried about how people will be thinking of you for giving it years from now, that’s probably a sign it’s bad advice. There should be a reasonably short limit on the amount of time stuff can be concealed for that kind of reason, and it sure as hell shouldn’t apply after everyone is out of office.
Mike in NC
OT but after a few hours on I-93 going into and out of Boston with my brother at the wheel, I need a good stiff drink. I forgot what a parking lot it becomes during rush hour.
Elizabelle
Agree. Dump the documents. Don’t let the usual tools redact and lie about what is in them. (See: Barr, William.)
trollhattan
What in the actual what is this garbage? Let’s go back, say, one administration and behold how Trump deferred to Obama on so many, many things.
This motherfucker has testified before congress; he’s not qualified to run the fryer at a Burger King. “Rumors of hot oil being hot are unfounded.”
smith
The thing about these restrictive “norms” that respectable media and Republican apologists (but I repeat myself) invoke whenever Dems try to govern: If only half the players are expected to follow the “norms,” then there aren’t really any norms. What they are really trying to promote are privileges for Republicans and obligations for Democrats.
trollhattan
Did anybody have “Russian shaman-scientist does California arson” on their 2021 bingo card?
rmjohnston
@hueyplong:
Not to mention that any advice Trump got was received in a well populated party bunker celebrating the ongoing events, where the party was videotaped and leaked. Even Turley knows that there’s no privilege of any kind for advice given in front of an audience of randos and memorialized on video.
kindness
Jonathan Turley is a piece of shit that just won’t go down the drain. He has shown himself (first with the penis hunt under President Clinton) that his legal opinions vary according to whether the president is a Democrat or a Republican. Flush that asshole down the drain.
The Dangerman
Unbroken tradition, Mr. Turkey? First, fuck off. Second, fuck off again. Third, well you get the idea.
Bill Arnold
Does he know how many Americans, some influential, know that he is a loathsome tool and despise him? I wonder how often he gets told this to his face. However often that is, he needs to hear it a lot more often.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
I am embarrassed for my alma mater.
SiubhanDuinne
@burnspbesq:
IMO, that would just invite a sideshow media firestorm about incompetence and criminally lax cybersecurity in the Biden Administration. I’d prefer to see the WH release the docs openly and deliberately. No sneakiness, no apologies.
Major Major Major Major
I thought Turley was all in on the imperial presidency. Jk only when it’s a Republican.
Major Major Major Major
@burnspbesq: given the state of government IT this has probably already happened by accident.
Cacti
Executive privilege belongs to the office of the Presidency, and we only have one of those at a time.
Trump ain’t it anymore.
Ten Bears
Senator Warren: “Are we held hostage by Republicans?”
Me: whistling vaguely like St Stephen …
MisterForkbeard
@Bill Arnold: During the (first) impeachment hearing, I had some reasonably well-informed friends tell me that “even some liberal legal scholars like this guy named Turley think that the Democrats jumped the gun and if they’d had better proof and cooperation from Republican witnesses, then Republicans might have voted for it.”
That’s his function. He’s there to be a “liberal democratic scholar” who attacks Democrats. Sort of like how Greenwald functions, where he’s “liberal” but always thinks Trump is great and that Democrats are the real problem every single time.
Roger Moore
@Ten Bears:
Me: blinking SOS in Morse code
Mike G
Great, then there will be more evidence about the coup organizers for Garland’s sleepy DOJ to politely ignore while arresting more rednecks.
patrick II
Turley
patrick II
Wag
@smith:
Exactly. Those are the Beltway Norms that we must always support
Sure Lurkalot
With all deference to Michelle Obama, I just don’t think going high is an option anymore. We have learned to our detriment that our government relied more on norms and traditions than we ever thought possible. It was easy peasy to violate them and then move on to rarely guarded laws like the Emoluments Clause and the Hatch Act and keep escalating from there all the way to premediated plans to overthrow the results of a free and fair election. We should worry about the fevered opinings of a hack like Jonathan Turley? Or a complicit media?
West of the Rockies
I WANT CONSEQUENCES! Indict Gaetz already. Start trials on more insurrectionists. Release Trump’s God damned taxes, indict TX AG Paxton, and release the 1/6 Trumpian evidence of crimes.
Omnes Omnibus
https://twitter.com/fordjohnathan5/status/1441111224528224258?s=21
hueyplong
@Omnes Omnibus: Good.
JWR
O/T but here we go again:
Hope it wasn’t in response to the shooter being asked to wear a mask.
rikyrah
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I know….GTFOH
smith
@West of the Rockies: As I recall, AG Paxton was indicted years ago. He is yet to be tried.
MomSense
@germy:
I really thing “the horse paste cured their COVID” needs to be a rotating tag line. I meant it is just short hand for so much.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Excellent. The sooner, the better.
smith
@Wag:
No reason for Democrats to be bound by fake norms imposed by a complicit media. The Beltway Media exists solely to make life easier for the 1%. If we are willing to make the 1% uncomfortable (and Democratic tax policy says we are) then we should be willing to make the handmaidens of the 1% in the media uncomfortable.
SpaceUnit
I can’t read anything Turley says without imagining him hunched over and rubbing his hands together, licking his lips and speaking like Gollum. Yeah, I should probably see a therapist.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: The tweet you just linked to:
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
@WaterGirl:
?
JPL
@Omnes Omnibus: Someone needs to hand it to the NYTimes asap, because trump is going to block it.
Baud
No difference between Biden and Trump on
immigrationnorm-breaking.JWR
@MisterForkbeard:
Yeah. Like the way the news dopes are always citing criticism of Democratic policies by fellow Democrats like Larry Summers. /hurl
Geminid
@West of the Rockies: Prosecutors want to have a provable case before Gaetz is indicted. I’m beginning to think that someone bought the silence of the then-minor in question.
Omnes Omnibus
@JPL: How?
Geminid
@JWR: Larry Summers would just be another talking economist head if he had not been chosen Treasury Secretatary by a Democratic President. Damn a man who doesn’t ride for the brand!
Ken
Definitely. He’s clearly more of a Grima Wormtongue type.
Ohio Mom
@trollhattan: Not only has that “shaman” woman got the governmental authorities mad, every witch in the country has just put a hex on her. They are pagan earth worshippers after all, and they sure don’t like being maligned.
JPL
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know… At some point during transit, maybe there will be time. Where the heck is Daniel Ellsberg?
.
Jeffro
@West of the Rockies: thank you, 10000% agree
I know Uncle Joe & Co have had a lot on their plate, but let’s get going here. Especially with this damned Covid resurgence, people are not seeing results in almost any sphere of governance, nor reason to believe Dems are being effective/know how to fight.
Just a couple heads on pikes, is all I’m asking.
Kay
Truly horrifying how anti-abortion people always erase the woman. I don’t even think they’re aware that they do it- that’s how normalized erasing women in this country is:
She disappeared halfway thru the first sentence, never to appear again.
Ask yourself if you want these people in charge of pregnant women’s health care. They will absolutely and always sacrifice the mother. They don’t even recognize she exists.
In the case of incest, Vance is speaking here not even of women but of girls. He’d force a 12 year old to carry to term so she can serve “society”.
The public polling approval of the new anti-abortion laws is dropping. I wonder if it’s because we’re finally hearing what the anti-abortion people really think. They can’t paper this over with the weepy Hallmark card blather about mommies and babies. You hear the authoritarian grounding of it, it’s harshness and mean spiritedness, how they can’t wait to punish women.
JoyceH
@MisterForkbeard:
Frankly, I’m astonished. I genuinely believed, when it was announced that the report would be delayed because the Cyber Ninjas had COVID, that we would never hear from them again. I thought they were going to melt away and never be seen again, like those Heist movies where the mark goes back to the bustling office where he’d made the deal and finds only an empty echoing space.
lollipopguild
@trollhattan: I used to think that education made people better, but I have seen and run into many educated idiots.
MomSense
@Kay:
They constantly erase women and yet these forced birth assholes DO NOT want anything to do with the baby once it is born. They don’t care if it has shelter, food, clothing, a living mom, a caregiver, school, etc. Once it is born they don’t care if it lives or dies.
hueyplong
@MomSense: That’s when the mother re-enters the picture, as an object of scorn.
MomSense
@hueyplong:
Exactly.
Bokonon
@Roger Moore: I am equally embarrassed by my alma mater. And I had Turley as a professor during law school …
Jeffro
@Kay: he’s a psycho, full stop. Whether latent or through exposure to the RWNJs, it doesn’t matter.
They always have double/triple down on their extreme positions in order to try and remain “consistent”. Vance wants the 12-year-old to carry to term because well…exceptions would mean that exceptions were possible, almost as if we (society) were determining the rules here, instead of something divinely dropped from heaven.
It’s the same with that Florida state rep or whatever. He realizes that trying to ban Covid-19 vaccinations for school kids (once they’re approved by the FDA or whatever) won’t be tenable, since they already have over a half-dozen required vaccinations. So he wants to…take a look at those half-dozen required vaccinations. It’s not that he’s way out on a limb opposing Covid-19 vaccinations; no, it’s that really, all of them might need to be reconsidered. Otherwise, he’d look like the know-nothing demagogue that he is.
Same with Vance. It’s not him getting raped, after all; it’s not HIS 12-year-old. So you know, it’s just “inconvenient”.
Jeffro
@MisterForkbeard:
@JoyceH:
I know you know this, but they’re just going to announce that “questions remain” and that will be enough for the GQP Noise Machine.
Lacuna Synecdoche
WaPo via Betty Cracker @ Top:
Perhaps Turley should ask Clinton, Bush fils, and Obama about the deference and respect shown to them by Trump.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Omnes Omnibus
@Dorothy A. Winsor: This DoJ will enforce the subpoenas.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: How does the DOJ do that? Can they be arrested or held in contempt and sit in jail until they testify?
Or can they just flip off congress and the DOJ?
debbie
@Kay:
Seriously, “women and young boys”? Not young girls? Could he be trying to turn women into nothing more than baby-making apparatuses? And when is someone going to demand an explanation why men are never prosecutable in these proposals?
debbie
@JWR:
I heard reporting* that there have been more than 4,000 incidents of unruly airline passengers since the beginning of the pandemic. Yikes!
(BBC/The World)
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl:
Bingo. It is what the previous DOJ would not do.
pajaro
@Kay:
I’m pretty sure Vance knows what he is doing. I don’t believe this is about ideology or confiction. Vance, a former anti-Trumper, has absolutely sold his soul to attempt to outflank Josh Mandel on the right, something that is really hard to do. He’s been given a pile of money for his campaign, and he’s doing what he thinks he needs to do to win.
laura
@Kay: Well gee Kay, they’ve managed to disappear the men from the unwanted pregnancy since the inception of the war against women and their rights and yet that never, ever, ever gets mentioned. So, disappearing the women is part and parcel of the fetus fetishization.
That JD Vance can take a running jump up his ass.
pajaro
@Kay:
I’m pretty sure Vance knows what he is doing. I don’t believe this is about ideology or confiction. Vance, a former anti-Trumper, has absolutely sold his soul to attempt to outflank Josh Mandel on the right, something that is really hard to do. He’s been given a pile of money for his campaign, and he’s doing what he thinks he needs to do to win.
burnspbesq
@West of the Rockies:
On what charges?
Betty
@Roger Moore: Wasn’t it Nixon who first made this such a thing trying to hide his wrongdoings?
burnspbesq
@Geminid:
I don’t care what Gaetz goes down for as long as he goes down. Conspiracy to tamper with a witness will work just fine.
Kay
@debbie:
They do it in the actual state statutes too. I suppose they think it insulates them from the charge of controlling women, but for me reading it has the opposite effect- it removes all agency and decision making from women at all. They’re just…missing. Absolutely bizarre but apparently just fine in the United States because no one ever mentions how weird it is to draft a state law where this sort of essential party doesn’t exist.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Happy to hear that there are good options.
geg6
@burnspbesq:
Hasn’t he already been indicted for something? I think securities fraud?
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@burnspbesq: He marrried the then minor witness. Spouses can’t be compelled to testify against each other.
Elizabelle
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
No, the lucky Mrs. Gaetz has always been of age. This one is all on Ginger Luckey Gaetz.