Another day, another story pointing out the obvious- unvaccinated people are assholes and everyone is pissed off at them:
As coronavirus cases resurge across the country, many inoculated Americans are losing patience with vaccine holdouts who, they say, are neglecting a civic duty or clinging to conspiracy theories and misinformation even as new patients arrive in emergency rooms and the nation renews mask advisories.
The country seemed to be exiting the pandemic; barely a month ago, a sense of celebration was palpable. Now many of the vaccinated fear for their unvaccinated children and worry that they are at risk themselves for breakthrough infections. Rising case rates are upending plans for school and workplace reopenings, and threatening another wave of infections that may overwhelm hospitals in many communities.
“It’s like the sun has come up in the morning and everyone is arguing about it,” said Jim Taylor, 66, a retired civil servant in Baton Rouge, La., a state in which fewer than half of adults are fully vaccinated.
“The virus is here and it’s killing people, and we have a time-tested way to stop it — and we won’t do it. It’s an outrage.”
The article goes on to say more coercive measures may not work, but who fucking cares? No coercion has failed miserably. Half the country is sociopaths aren’t aren’t going to do the right thing no matter what happens, unless you force them. I call this the Sandy Hook Postulate and it should be obvious to everyone. Several dozen kids were murdered with a gun no civilian has any need to own, and half the American country said “Ehh, fuck it. We like guns.”
So just do it. Bring back mask mandates, require all state and federal workplaces to be vaccine mandated for employees, and corporate America will follow along.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m with you on this one, John
VeniceRiley
Completely on board for this approach. At this point, I wouldn’t care if we mandated “number oh da beast!” vaccine tattoos.
cwmoss
“I am the vinner.”
— Aunt Lotte
Edit: “Missed it by that much!”
— Maxwell Smart
Damien
Quite honestly, the only reason I’m wearing a mask is for the off chance that I might have an asymptomatic infection around someone who literally can’t get the vaccine for immune or age reasons.
But if I’m around a straight up vaccine refuser? I’d cough pure coronavirus INTO THEIR MOUTHS and let them die, because I guarantee that if they’re a stupid asshole about this then they’re stupid assholes about everything, and the earth has more than enough assholes
Anonymous At Work
Vaccination status should be treated like smoking status: an option that allows insurers to discriminate in price and coverage. Make unvaccinated responsible for their insurance premiums and watch their numbers fall.
wetcasements
Source?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as was so often the case during the campaign, Biden is already doing what people are telling him to do
Mark
I didn’t think the vaccine passports were a good idea but obviously I made the classic mistake of not believing people were this stupid.
Kent
Insurance needs to stop paying for this. A week’s stay in the ICU on a ventilator costs about $100,000 and puts lots of other people at risk. Ask anyone in the front line medical profession what they think at this point. They are fucking DONE with this bullshit.
Cmorenc
I am all for instituting a sufficient web of workplace vaccine requirements for employment that shrink the area where its sustainable to remain stubbornly resistant to vaccination. That does create a risk of creating a black market for bogus vaccination certificates but the requirement could be backed up with mandatory testing to prove it
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mark: I imagine something like that is coming, but from Applebee’s, theater chains and airlines. Maybe state governments.
“The following proofs of vaccination are accepted for admission…”
Kent
@Cmorenc: Every state maintains a vaccine database that could be checked if necessary.
gwangung
@Mark: A-fricking-men.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: Yup, I’ve checked mine since I immediately lost my vax card.
VFX Lurker
@wetcasements:
I copied a sentence from John’s post, searched for it in Google and found the original article at the New York Times.
Another Scott
As I said in the COVID thread this morning – don’t punch down.
Yes, require vaccinations, or frequent testing.
Yes, require masks indoors.
Yes to the public health measures.
But make it so that it is so easy to get a vaccine that people who work 3 jobs or are homebound or … are reached as easy as the rest of us. We’re not there yet.
Saying (as too many are doing now that Macron and some GQP governors are doing it) “it’s all the non-vaccinated’s fault” is buying into a destructive frame. Too many powerful people (with agendas like making sure Democrats fail; increasing chaos; etc.) are still pushing the nonsense. They need to feel a backlash and repercussions or they’re going to keep doing it. Abandoning normal people who have been lied to isn’t good for us.
What Would Biden Do??
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Martin
More coercive measures will definitely work. Hell, they’ll tell you that directly. Sure, you’ll get 2% or so that stick it out, but you can definitely get it pretty darn close to 100%.
I mean, one of their arguments is ‘if this was really so dangerous, why aren’t they mandating the vaccine’, and they’re right on that.
I think one of the fairer criticisms of liberals is not matching action to rhetoric. That’s hardly unique to liberals – witness every 2A advocate who justifies the 2A to put down tyranny and then every time they scream about tyranny (Obama, Stop the Steal) they never do shit about it – but Democrats would probably get further if they learned to connect these things better. Is voter suppression a threat to democracy? Oh, let’s go work on infrastructure. Even if it’s a function of timing, not connecting action to the call really undermines the call as being somewhat unserious.
zhena gogolia
I hope somebody frontpages some of the powerful testimony from Fanone, Hodges, Gonell, and Dunn this morning.
Ruckus
@Mark:
If half the people are dumber than the median then in a 2 party system is stands to some reason that one of those parties is stupider that the other one. We have pretty solid proof that this is true all you have to do is look around at those who won’t get vaccinated because _______________. Fill in the blank yourself, it’s more satisfying.
zhena gogolia
Martin
@Ruckus: This is a pretty interesting video about what makes flat earthers. It’s relevant.
Baud
@Martin:
I agree.
Leto
Washington Football Team coach Ron Rivera ‘beyond frustrated’ by low vaccination rate of his players Washington coach Ron Rivera said that while his team is more than 50% vaccinated, \”We’re not where we want to be.\”
Everyone is getting tired of these assholes.
Bill Arnold
Source: As Virus Cases Rise, Another Contagion Spreads Among the Vaccinated: Anger (Roni Caryn Rabin, July 27, 2021)o
(meta;: to find things, copy a distinguishing sentence fragment, then google search for “sentence fragment”. Or any search engine that supports quoted search strings.)
Adam L Silverman
I’m just going to leave this right here:
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
NotMax
Um, beg to strenuously disagree. The country seemed to be beginning to tamp down the pandemic.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: I am frankly amazed that in stand your ground states, like Floriduh!, someone hasn’t stood their ground against some dipshit who won’t wear a mask or won’t wear it right or decides to purposefully cough on someone asking them to wear a mask.
Adam L Silverman
@VeniceRiley: I initially misread that as “number on the breast” and my thought was “going trashy biker babe is a bit extreme, but nothing else has worked, so…”
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I’ll leave this here as well:
Look, there’s a time for asking, and a time for demanding. We’ve done the time for asking. It wasn’t enough. Time for phase 2.
hrprogressive
@Adam L Silverman:
Because the people most likely to “Stand Your Ground” are the assholes most likely to be anti-vaxx and anti-mask.
If it were me, however, I’d be carrying everywhere, and if these assclowns wanted to harass me, well.
You can believe in violence not being the solution to problems, and the right to defend one’s person simultaneously. That would be me.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: What are the odds the asshole not masking is better armed than you?
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
OT, but mildly curious if you have any insider’s reaction to this.
My take: Mr. Brown was an excellent choice, but also is not the only excellent candidate in the field.
japa21
@Adam L Silverman: Are you willing to serve as a test case?
Adam L Silverman
@Damien: My mother went to an Indivisible meeting two weekends ago. Everyone in attendance had to provide proof of full vaccination. Four days after the meeting they sent an email around: a husband and wife in attendance had gone to a wedding the night before and he had just tested positive for COVID though he is asymptomatic/has mild symptoms. They’d gone to get tested after they were notified that several other people at the wedding had tested positive for COVID after the wedding. Today she got an email from the Indivisible group that held that meeting that another attendee had tested positive, but was also asymptomatic.
PhoenixRising
Stop me if my sister the NP has already bragged about this (I’ve been out in the wild since our family reunion in early July): We ran a test. Mandates will definitely work, because low pressure convenience works.
It’s not that hard to get shots into the reluctant Appalachians you know. Just stand between them & the fried chicken table, subtly nudging them toward the cousin holding a syringe loaded with J&J’s best. Every family has a nurse, just about. She inoculated more vulnerable older adults at that firehouse than the county health department got to all week.
Yes, I’m done worrying about one of them dumb hillbillies saying his last goodbye on facetime, face down, but yelling at them doesn’t seem to work. Mandates will make it easier to go along with what they know they ought to have done anyhow.
zhena gogolia
@PhoenixRising:
You had someone giving vaccinations at your family reunion?
debbie
@NotMax:
Not so long ago, after steadily declining numbers, the daily new case rate in Ohio fell to below 100. Today, they reported more than 1,300 new cases in the last 24 hours.
So, yeah, we were getting a grip.
Martin
Oh shit. Woman chasing Matt Gaetz down the street repeatedly screaming ‘are you a pedophile’ in his ear gives me so much energy.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: No arguments from me.
dnfree
I have been having this increasingly irate discussion with a (right-wing evangelical Christian) relative in his mid-forties. We have a daughter who is immune-compromised in his age group. He insists on his right to be “skeptical” and to get his medical information from YouTube. I’ve just had it. HAD IT. Christian but can’t bring himself to care about anyone else.
hrprogressive
I legitimately thought the rescinding of the mask mandate/recommendation was a bad idea, even though I had just hit Fully Vaxxed™ and could have theoretically done so.
I do my own grocery shopping now compared to last year, but I do it in an N95 and a double layered fabric mask, and I do it as soon as the stores open so my potential exposure to accumulated aerosols ought to be lower.
In June, I was legitimately considering starting to maybe engage in at least outdoor social activities again, but the Delta Wave changed my mind.
Maybe we’ll follow the steep drop offs seen in the UK and India. Maybe this’ll be the worst one.
We just don’t know yet.
Leto
@Martin: link or it didn’t happen.
Adam L Silverman
@hrprogressive: I once completely blew a job interview for a faculty position as a professor of conflict resolution when, after discussing the concept and the various forms – arbitration, mediation, toleration, avoidance, non-violent self help – I finished up with the final bit about violent self help. I wasn’t advocating it, but the hiring committee looked like I’d just strangled someone in front of them.
jl
Thanks to Cole for a nice righteous rant.
The US needs a two pronged approach, one for those who are already willing or persuadable to get vaccinated, but don’t have good access. Another for the die-hard fanatics who are irretrievably lost to Tucker and Trumpster nonsense. Both are sizeable groups, and we need to tailor approach to get as many of both groups vaccinated. First group needs more access and carrots, the second may need a big stick.
Perfectly fine or ordinary people like us to get angry and yell. But, for public health officials, both groups are problems that need to be solved, and how they solve them may not be satisfy our thirst for punishment of wrongdoers and jackasses.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I had a dentist appt this morning that I was running late for. I grabbed my vaccination card which my wife had stuck in a waterproof lanyard from some conference I attended, so I just threw it around my neck. Everyone at the dentist loved that I was just wearing it. I may just wear it out all the time, just to make a point.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Who knows.
Villago Delenda Est
@dnfree: Not actually a Christian. Probably worships Mammon or Moloch in reality.
sab
@Martin: Trump stacked the courts, and we know the Robert’s Supreme Court in Its last iteration had norespect for prwcedent. Do you think it has improved under Trump’s appointees?
Martin
@Leto: Was on Chris Hayes show. Can’t find the exact video yet.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@hrprogressive:
have you seen a good explanation for that? or I guess I should say persuasive speculation at this point
Mike in NC
We have a large chunk of our population that believe in the literal interpretation of the bible, and that young Jesus of Nazareth rode to school on a dinosaur.
Martin
@sab: No. But I don’t care. You can’t refuse to implement public policy because someone might get mad. Let them sue. Let the consequences of ‘the state cannot compel vaccinations’ play out in public schools and parent outrage.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Leto: here you go….
“are you sure you’re not a pedophile?” (link fixed)
NotMax
@Mike in NC
And without a mask, too!
//
MagdaInBlack
@NotMax: That’s what I’ve been saying at work ” This ain’t over, folks, stop acting like it is.” I’m sure they’re tired of hearing it, but damn it.
Eta: often directed at the corporate folk pushing the numbers as if things just bounced back: *poof* : all better.
Leto
@Martin: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: hahahaha; the guy wearing the paper mache Trumpov costume was a very nice touch.
dopey-o
Welcome to Misery, let’s travel to the Ozarks, where the yoots are havin’ a party.
Read the final paragraph and explain why I shouldn’t take an AR-15 on my vacation to the Lake of Ozarks….
Has anyone asked the covidiots how all the governors of all the 50 states got together with all the leaders of all the nations and foisted this hoax on us?
Kent
You can get walk-in vaccinations at pretty much any pharmacy including those at grocery stores.
What do these people with 3 jobs do when the need a new toothbrush or quart of milk? Do they just go without a toothbrush for 6 months because they “lack access”?
Sheesh….
Medicine Man
@Adam L Silverman: Ah crap, then its probably not good that I skip straight to avoidance and then double- or triple-down on it.
Martin
@dopey-o: Watch the video I linked at 21.
Haydnseek
@Mike in NC: This is a widely believed yet erroneous version of events. Jesus indeed rode a dinosaur, but it was somewhat later in life. He needed to get to Chick-fil-a to pick up the grub for the last supper.
MagdaInBlack
@Martin: I was thinking that myself. (Not Adam specifically, but in the general population.)
Elizabelle
Great post, John. With you on every point.
Baud
@dopey-o:
Is reporting on antivaxxers going to be the new Cletus safari?
raven
And quit pussyfooting around with the military. Fuckers never asked me if it was ok to nail me with all that shit.
A Ghost to Most
@MagdaInBlack: Meh. This whole blog thought all our problems would end on Nov 4. How did that work out?
Martin
Oh, shit. Fauci suggests that vaccinated people with breakthrough Delta infections have the same viral load as people who are unvaccinated. (Wasn’t the case with previous variants).
So a vaccinated person with Covid is potentially quite dangerous as far as spread goes. Says you need stronger antibodies to protect the nose relative to the lungs and Delta raises the bar enough that the vaccines fall a bit short in that regard. Still protects you, but doesn’t do as good of a job at protecting us.
So, boosters are definitely coming. Mask like there is no vaccine.
NotMax
@MagdaInBlack
Were it an episode of The Man from U.N.C.L.E. it would be titled “The Kiss the Boo-boo Gambit.”
//
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: There will be someone, somewhere, who is equally as good, the question is whether they can identify that person, convince them to take the job, and that person can get confirmed/is willing to put up with the nomination and confirmation process.
As for what happened to Brown, this is bullshit. It is bullshit in that the complainant clearly has a grievance against the guy for some reason. If I had to guess it is because Smith hired someone from outside as a subject matter expert for a job that the complainant wanted.
The other reason it is bullshit is that you get these entrenched civil service, including SES or other department/agency equivalents (Foreign Service Executive or Senior Analytic Service as examples), people in positions of authority where they basically decide that anything that anyone else does is wrong or they don’t like it and they cause constant damage to the ability of the government to actually function. I’ve been through this personally.
The Combined Arms Center G8 (comptroller) – that’s the 3 star headquarters at Leavenworth – who is a GS15 thinks everything done by the higher headquarters, Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) and the Army is coming out of his personal savings account and that it is all his money and he should have it and he’ll do anything to get it. So what does he do? He files a complaint with the IG that the cultural advisors program, which was created by General Demspey and which authorized term appointments under the Intergovernmental Personnel Act of Title IV for GS 15 subject matter experts with PhDs as the cultural advisors was actually an illegal hiring scheme. This was part of a multi pronged attempt to get his hands on the program budget and to get rid of all of us accept the cultural advisor at the Combined Arms Center who did not have a PhD despite claiming he did. We did a full investigation when he refused to turn in official transcripts or verification of the doctorate from one of the two commercial companies that verify foreign degrees. Anyhow, fortunately, the IG investigator started with me. And I just straight up started with: “What you’re investigating, what your investigation is predicated on and alleging, is that GEN Dempsey, who is now the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, authorized an illegal hiring scheme in collusion with the employment laywer at TRADOC and the senior TRADOC staff, including a 3 star, a 2 star, a 1 star, and an SES3, to hire subject matter experts. What you can’t answer is to what purpose other than to ensure that the Army could quickly and effectively place subject matter experts with PhDs at each school and center. And that this whole thing was instigated by the CAC G8 who is already under investigation for misappropriating the budget for hiring contractors to support the cultural advisors at each center and school along with the CAC cultural advisor who does not have a PhD, claims to have one, and knows that he has to get rid of those of us who investigated his story of why he does actually in fact have a PhD, but can’t prove it if he wants to keep his job.” At that point the investigator, after furiously taking notes to get everything I said down, said “That’s what this is about?” And I said: “Yes. If you’re not careful you’re going to destroy the career of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff so that the CAC G8 can control the program budget, fire the rest of us, and then CAC can use the money for whatever it wants instead of what it was programmed for.”
The investigation concluded that there was no illegal hiring scheme. The Army, however, still allowed CAC to eat the budget, defund all the positions and fire everyone. Except me. The US Army War College Commandant start to pay for me out of his own budget. He even requested approval to amend his table of distributed authorities (TDA), which is his funded staff lines/positions, to move me from term appointment on to a regular funded line. It was sitting on the official’s desk awaiting the final signature when the sequester went into effect. I concluded my assignment at USAWC a month later. Did a term appointment with the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Security Dialogue, and went on my way. My counterpart at CAC got himself hired to be the culture and language program manager despite not having any transcripts for any higher education – from bachelors to doctorate – and despite not having program manager certifications at the time. He’s a fully vested GS13 and despite several attempts to try to get the counterintelligence guys to pay attention, he’s dug in and nothing is ever going to dig him out. Did I mention that he used to be a Soviet for cover official and just stayed in the US and eventually got citizenship after the Soviet Union fell and he would often ask question about things he did not have a need to know?
Leto
@raven: they never do. Honestly I don’t think too many people are actually refusing it, if at all. Tons of grumbling, which whatever. People always bitch. But when push comes to saving your job, they’ll get stuck.
raven
@A Ghost to Most: What’s a “whole blog” douchebag?
NotMax
@Baud
(repeated from downstairs)
Binders of hot from the diner reporting on
ecovaxonomic anxiety.//
Leto
@Martin: my medical friend has been telling me this for weeks now. Honestly, longer. He’s a hospital worker who’s seeing all this first hand, and has continually told the wife and I to keep on masking. I feel like we’re going to mask for the foreseeable future. Well into next year.
raven
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I take this to mean Swalwell’s suit against Mo Brooks can proceed?
Uncle Cosmo
Some are still pointing to the fact that the COVID vaccines are being administered under emergency authorization. Shouldn’t our government be doing everything it can to approve the vaccines for non-emergency use? At least that would kick one of the props out from under the refuseniks.
Meantime, I’d roll with Kent’s suggestion at #9: Let insurers walk away from covering COVID treatment for the unvaccinated except for individuals with a documented and verified condition preventing vaccination. Put the burden of proof on those individuals and their physicians, require verification from an independent review board – and threaten any M.D. who’s found to have filed spurious paperwork with losing the license to practice medicine.
Public health requires communal response and discipline, the more so in pandemic times. We are in fact our brothers’ keepers, and all of us goddamned well need to start acting like it. Under penalty of law or loss of coverage if necessary.
topclimber
@Another Scott: What Biden already has done is to mandate vaccines or masks for Federal contractors. One way or another there is going to be a metric ton of federal bucks being spent on infrastructure. Forgive the stereotype (nah) but all those macho MAGATs pouring concrete and laying cable are not going to pass up the gravy train. Not when Joe has given them the perfect excuse to offer their non-vax bros.
ETA: I thought this was a done deal but can’t find the link. It seems to be under serious consideration.
gwangung
There are still those deeply suspicious of the cost.
And there are those who feel they cannot gamble that side effects won’t knock them out for a day or two…a day or two they can’t afford.
Those are folks I think could still use some help….
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: I try to never leave the house. Also, no one generally bothers me when I do. This is a combination of my size and build and the fact that I try to radiate hostility in all directions when in public.
Martin
@Leto: Yeah, maybe. Not sure how quickly the boosters are coming. That could have a big impact.
That said, there’s a moral decision here – do we prioritize boosters for Americans over first doses for half the planet? I mean, obviously the answer to what will happen is ‘yes, that will happen’ but should it?
MagdaInBlack
@A Ghost to Most: This whole blog? You must read a diff version than I.
japa21
@Adam L Silverman: Not only in public. Half of the jackals cower when they seen you here.
raven
@japa21: Don’t let him fool ya, he’s a sweetheart!
NotMax
@Uncle Cosmo
No, please. Nibbling away at the ACA not a productive undertaking.
If anything, insurers can be a powerful voice promoting vaccination, by way of incentives for the fully vaxxed.
Geminid
@A Ghost to Most: Bull. Shit.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Martin: I know! I LOVED it.
raven
@Martin: And Greene hightailing it after chasing David Hogg was sweet. Chicken shit bitch.
Peale
Ugh. So Christian Yelich Is out after testing positive with mild symptoms. As the Brewers star player, of course he had near court side seats at the NBA finals last Tuesday while the rest of the team watched from a luxury box. (Got to get the celebrities on the TV). I guess we’ll see this week whether winning was a curse.
MagdaInBlack
@japa21: Completely off topic: I saw the Sandhill Cranes by Goebberts last week. I had to stop and let mom and dad and still somewhat fluffy gawky long legged kid cross the road ?
NotMax
@Martin
Nothing to base it on other than a hunch but expect if boosters are approved they’ll be a modified formulation, perhaps a diluted version, just enough to kickstart already in place protection.
NorthLeft12
Up here in Canada, almost all provinces (except Alberta of course) have kept their mask mandates in place. Vaccinations are declining as just over 80% of the eligible (+12 years) have their first dose and just over 65% are fully vaccinated. I doubt we will exceed 85% vaccinated unless some strong mandates are brought in.
Sounds like we are headed to a vaccine passport which may encourage enough of the holdouts to get vaccinated to reach our goal.
japa21
@MagdaInBlack: Cool. Thanks for remembering. We’ll run out that way and see if we can see them.
Leto
@Martin: def interesting moral quandary. Should it? Yes, as the government of the US has as it’s first priority the safety and well being of it’s citizens. Even when those citizens are too dumb to accept it. Give boosters to everyone’s who’s vaxxed, send the rest to where it’s needed. And do it before it expires (number of reports about countries being sent almost expired lots).
@raven: yeah, it probably should be higher but idk the reasons why it’s not. But like you know, refusal shouldn’t be one of them.
Gin & Tonic
@A Ghost to Most: Fuck off.
Captain C
@zhena gogolia: I hope the money is worth it to Fucker for being a massively harmful public asshole.
MagdaInBlack
@japa21: I have a suspicion they hang out in the development just west of Goebberts, ” The Ponds” so maybe cruise thru there. ( it doesn’t appear to be gated)
Captain C
@Leto: I suspect that at the end of training camp, if there’s one spot for two players of similar talent and utility and cap space, and only one is vaccinated, the other one will get cut.
VeniceRiley
@Martin: My work gave out pins and I wear mine right on my badge every weekday from the moment I leave the house until I get home. I want every resto worker and store employee to know I care, and where to get theirs.
Nettoyeur
@Mike in NC: The Bible does not in fact say that Jesus rode on a dinosaur. I thought these people were literalists…
Leto
@Captain C: potentially; there was a Minnesota Vikings assistant coach, Rick Dennings, who was fired for refusing to take it. No better way to make them do it than tie to employment.
matt the somewhat reasonable
I went and got vaccinated in February because I had early access thanks to working for a health care provider. I was excited to get it and jumped at the chance. Most of the people I know had exactly the same response.
I don’t really give a shit why these fucking assholes have a different response. Fuck them. I have a right to protect myself from them, even if they want to be free to be trash or something.
J R in WV
Here is my take on vaccinations. If someone shows up at the ER with covid test positive, not vaccinated, take that gurney to the parking lot and leave it there.
The victim is a volunteer, could have gotten a vaccination, DID NOT take the offered FREE vaccination!!! Not my problem at all.
Not the problem of the ER staff! This is the problem of the person testing positive for Covid (probably Delta variant) without a vaccination.
I don’t see why the rest of us especially including the ER staff should suffer and pay for the action (or lack there of actually!) of this stupid person.
Gvg
@Martin: I think it’s unrealistic to expect any freely elected government and even most authoritarian governments not to prioritize their own citizens. They would lose the next election or their would be a rebellion. I can see the need to share but don’t think it is in the majority of large groups of people to not demand safety. seriously it just can’t happen in any country.
it is more realistic to say get vaccinated, and get to work manufacturing and shipping to everywhere else. We like work, we are proud when we make things, you could sell that to a population. You can’t sell not protecting your own citizens. Realistically I also don’t think it would even help to say vaccinate 5% of the world equally a year or something like that. It might on first look be fairer, but I don’t think it would actually help get the virus under control.
of course I didn’t think of this a year ago, it was only as I watched the rollout that I came to this conclusion. Hindsight.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin:
It’s so great. Just plainly asking that pile of shit if he’s a pedo.
Elizabelle
@mrmoshpotato:
I saw that clip, and thought that — given what the future might hold for Matt Gaetz, please please please — he might look back at today as one of his good days.
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: Sorry. That’s not hostility I’m radiating here. It’s frustration. And I apologize to everyone who it has upset.
Omnes Omnibus
@A Ghost to Most: You are full of shit.
geg6
@Leto:
Yep. I want a mandate at work. So sick of this shit. There are three people in our whole office suite of about 12 who refuse to vaccinate. Only one diligently masks, even though they are required to be masked in any University building. One just came back from a vacation gallivanting around the COVID ground zero, Florida. Unmasked the whole time. Fuck her and fuck the other two. I’m going into the office Thursday after my own week long staycation where I only mingled with fully vaccinated friends and family. I will be masking from here on in. We haven’t travelled out of a three county area for two years at this point. Fuck these people sideways with a rusty chainsaw. I’m done with them and will make my feelings known if anyone dares question my masking. Which no one but my boss will ask me about because, knowing me, they know enough to be afraid of confronting me. I hope they die at this point.
Tim in SF
It’s hard for me to get upset about the fuck-around-and-find-out crowd finding out after fucking around.
I already don’t want them to vote. What makes you think I want them to breathe? These people have been the sore point of my life since I came out in the eighties. I’m not going to cry over there being fewer of them, since they are doing this to themselves.
Kay
My youngest is working 3rd shift at a factory just for the summer, 3 nights a week. They make plastic injection parts for the commercial truck and bus industry. Only about 20% of the workers are vaccinated so they started a raffle. To enter you have to have a vaccine card. He could win a family pass to an amusement park. I wonder if it would make more sense to just have a vaccination team come on site and just give them a half hour each additional break time to get it done. Our county health department is desperate to pass them out- I bet they’d go out there if they were invited.
JCJ
@japa21: Went to the International Crane Foundation near Baraboo last week. I hadn’t been there for quite a while. They have all 15 species of cranes there. Pretty cool to see whooping cranes.
MisterForkbeard
@Gin & Tonic: Well said. People thought the existential threats would be removed or delayed, no one ever suggested everything was going to be perfect and all problems solved.
Dude can go fuck himself.
tom
You’re going to see more of this.
NotMax
@JCJ
“Darn, we’ve only got a short time before they close for the day. Which do you wanna see, the Frasiers or the Niles?”
//
Geminid
@Adam L Silverman: I have not seen you be hostile or mean. Emphatic, maybe. But that is justified because you argue from a good base of knowledge.
Ken
Any of them have peanut allergies?
I’m half-expecting some parent, fed up with the covidiots insisting that kids shouldn’t mask, to start sending their own kids with the forbidden peanut butter sandwiches. Or maybe some spaghetti-strap blouses, Twisted Sister T-shirts, or other forbidden apparel.
dnfree
@MagdaInBlack: we have had Sandhill cranes here (Randall Rd and Bowes Rd) to watch but not as many as last year, I think because our ponds are so low. There was a couple with two babies but one was eaten by a coyote when still very young. The three come by us and we saw one of the parents snatch a newly fledged robin right out of the air and put it on the ground to stab it to death. They have also gone after red winged blackbird nests and young. The blackbird parents attack the sandhills valiantly.
Uncle Cosmo
@japa21: Beat me to it, nagdabbit. I was going to point out that if our Hiyo** is half as prolific at emitting surly-rays IRL as he is in these electronic precincts, it’s a wonder half of Florid’uh doesn’t dive for shelter*** whenever he straps on his sick-shooter and steps outdoors…;^p
** “A furry Jackal at the speed of fright, a cloud of rust and a hardly ‘Hiyo Silverman, oy vey!‘”
*** “Who was that still-masked man?” “I dunno, but I wanted to get out of his way…”
Uncle Cosmo
@NotMax: Oh, fuck right off. Anyone who thinks that’s “nibbling away at the ACA” is a goddamned moron.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken:
Woo! Satanic Panic 2021! Woo!
Just not in FL-1.
NotMax
@Ken
T-shirts with pictures of The Mask. Too subtle?
:)
Cermet
Let me try and understand the statement that fully vaccinated people carry the same viral load as unvaccinated during break through. This absolutely means that fully vaccinated people get the full blow viral infection for a period of time that is vague relative to duration but I’d assume is much shorter than an unvaccinated person. This then indicates to a high degree that the virus does essentially zero noticeable harm to people who are vaccinated but rather the immune response does most the harm but only if the virus triggers it rather than having vaccinated antibodies already available. So the virus is not dangerous or harmful during that time period but becomes harmful for some unknown reason or due to the bodies first reaction? Ok, not buying any of this.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: The Mask
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: I’m upset at what the people did to the program, you, and how they undermined the future of American security. Your anger is a 100% honest and appropriate response. We need more emotional honesty in these times. Our future is in jeopardy on far too many fronts.
geg6
@Ken:
Actually, yes. Which is her excuse for not vaxxing. What nut allergies have to do with vaccines that don’t have nuts in them is less clear. At least she is the one of the three who masks consistently and properly. But fuck that noise, I agree. I bought some peanut butter breakfast bars to take to work just today. Why should I stop eating peanuts to protect her, right?
NotMax
@geg6
In this case, vaccines that have nuts without them.
;)
Nukular Biskits
Read this earlier but I couldn’t comment until now.
Within the past week, two of my guys tested positive for COVID-19. Both of these educated morons were unvaccinated … and chose not to be vaccinate because of “questions” about the vaccines. Given my position, I also know that “OWNING TEH STEWPIT LIBS!” as well as “FREEDUMBZ!!1!!” were factors here, although, officially, I don’t know their vaccination status.
Because of their belligerent ignorance, both of them (the only two SMEs we had for for particular test event this week) took themselves out for a mandatory 10-day isolation as well as probably triggered a 14-day ROM for other personnel in our office. BUT FREEDUMBZ!!!!!!111!!!!
This despite our corporate policy that stipulates nonvaccinated folks MUST wear a mask when in the office and while on the clock … which, of course, they didn’t .
Our policy going forward is that (in the name of “FREEDUMBZ!!!!11!!!”), personnel don’t have to reveal their vaccination status … but, if they don’t, they MUST wear a mask. No ifs/ands/buts.
To paraphrase something that Markos said over on the Great Orange Satan immediately after the 2017 election, I am sick and damned tired of trying to reason with f***ing idiots like this who endangering the rest of us.
Mary G
Fresh new email from the city council saying that they will keep the existing emergency order in place, including no indoor dining in restaurants:
Bold mine. These motherfuckers. The city is stuck at about 53% fully vaccinated. The summer camps are mostly surfer lessons held outside on the beach in the open air.
Amir Khalid
@A Ghost to Most:
I don’t remember any frontpager or commenter believing anything that naive — you yourself certainly didn’t.
Adam L Silverman
@Geminid: I’m frustrated. To the point of having very little patience left with anyone and anything. I’m aware of it. I’m aware it is showing.
I would very much like to be able to write a post sometime between November 2022 and January 2023 and a second one between November 2024 and January 2025 marking my beliefs to market and stating that I was wrong.
I would be glad to be wrong.
I don’t think I am wrong. I think we’re in for a world of hurt and pain and suffering that most cannot imagine because to do so is just too mentally and emotionally painful.
I’m either Cassandra of Troy or I’m James Jesus Angleton. We won’t know which for a while.
FlyingToaster (Tablet)
@Another Scott: The biggest problem for the multiple jobs folks is that when they have the usual day or two of side effects, the job(s) they don’t show up for are the jobs they lose.
Mind you, when they get covid, they lose the jobs anyway.
The feds can’t fix this one.
David Fud
My anger goes beyond the unvaccinated. My county Board of Education adopted an optional masking policy after a hard deadline for parents to choose in-person or virtual school. If my kids get COVID, I am going to make it my mission to elect challengers to the BoE majority that is causing so many problems in my county. I am not to fury of 1000 suns yet, but I feel like I am inching my way there with every day that passes – and their school starts next week, so there isn’t much time for these old white guys with none of their own children in the schools to get it right.
Skepticat
@Martin:
It took me a couple of glasses of wine to get through it, but this is indeed interesting and intelligent. It also happens to scare the snot out of me on at least one level (though the guy has a great sense of humor), as it’s spot on.
Adam L Silverman
@Uncle Cosmo: Oy vey indeed.
Adam L Silverman
@Dan B: It is what it is. I am very proud of the program, even if it was killed off just as we were beginning to make headway. And I’m very proud of the work I did in it.
KrackenJack
@Adam L Silverman: I just don’t see how we get out of this spiral without a great deal of damage and loss. Our institutions are fragile and we don’t appear to have the tools and resolve to shore them up against enemies foreign and domestic. My level of influence on events is small, but I’ll do whatever I can and whatever I must.
I alternate between sadness and anger. I don’t begrudge anyone expressing their feelings on the most consequential issue of our time.
Soprano2
@dopey-o: I’m supposed to go to an industry conference at Margaritaville on August 8, 9 and 10. I figure any day now I’ll be getting an email saying it’s canceled.
Nukular Biskits
@Soprano2: Biloxi?
The Pale Scot
Testing should be an anal swab with a 10″ “device, no lube (’cause that might affect the results)
Daily
Adam L Silverman
@KrackenJack: It’s too late for me to get started on this right now. Especially as I’ve a threat assessment on this stuff I’ve been procrastinating on writing for several weeks.
KrackenJack
@Nukular Biskits: I was guessing the Mall of America location.
NotMax
@Adam L Silverman
Will there be bouts of wrenching pain to the system during the journey to and through those times? Absitively. Sporadic setbacks? More than likely.
Call me a cockeyed optimist but have no truck with countenancing that injuries/damage inflicted will be all-encompassing.
Soprano2
@Nukular Biskits: Lake of the Ozarks, used to be Tan-Tar-A.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: If what I think is happening and going to continue to happen based on the available information we have now, then it will be far, far, far, far worse than most are willing to imagine.
I desperately want to be wrong. Hell, I’d argue I’m due to be wrong as I’ve yet to have an assessment I’ve done professionally turn out wrong over the past decade. Whether that’s luck, I’m just that good, or a combination of the two who knows.
Unfortunately, we won’t know one way or the other until it is too late.
Adam L Silverman
And with that I’m going to bed. I have a long day of procrastination so as to not have to deal with the emotional disruption of writing this that assessment to look forward too tomorrow.
rikyrah
You are on point, Cole ????
burnspbesq
@Uncle Cosmo:
They are, but the standard FDA approval process is mind-bogglingly data-intensive and for a variety of legal reasons is very difficult to speed up. Maybe by the end of 2021.
Dan B
@burnspbesq: There’s the Gordian Knot method. The Allies pulled this off in WWII. It took Pearl Harbor and a great man, flawed but more than willing to go for greatness, to say, ‘Okay now.’ We’re still waiting for China’s emergence in many areas to be much more obvious, for the entire west to burn and the Midwest to drown, and for the GQP to win 2022 with criminal / voter supression for America to wake up.
It could happen.
Maybe before we burn, drown, or starve.
It’s beyond frustrating to present the options to people we love and people we loathe. This happened with the Randians like Zuckerberg. He intervened to let the people promoting the genocide in Myanmar, of the Rohingy, to post their murderous lies. He contravened his lieutenants.
NotMax
@Uncle Cosmo
If allowing reputable insurers to opt out and by doing so encouraging them to deny coverage for a deadly disease isn’t nibbling away at the ACA then what is it? Once the camel’s nose is inside the tent, and all that.
I harbor zero sympathy for vaccine refuseniks and wouldn’t be averse to an added risk surcharge for not getting vaccinated if medically able to but I wish a death sentence on no one.
/views from a goddamn moron
Just One More Canuck
Here in Ontario, Doug Ford is saying that we can’t have vaccine passports because of something to do with freedumb. Who knew that Rob Ford was the smart one in the family@NorthLeft12:
J R in WV
@JCJ:
And here I was thinking these were industrial lifting devices.
;~)
Alexander
This is very mean, uncaring and vengeful.