I posted this clip in comments in the morning thread because it’s a great explainer of the how and why of the just-concluded Biden-Putin meeting. But it’s also notable because Ms. Hill confirms that she was so desperate to interrupt Trump’s humiliating performance at the Helsinki summit that she looked around for a fire alarm to pull and considered faking a medical emergency to derail the proceedings. That portion of the clip starts at around the 6:10 mark:
President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin are just hours from meeting face to face.
Russia expert Fiona Hill helped prep Biden for the summit. She tells @donlemon what Biden should expect. Watch: pic.twitter.com/tFdLH3p92f
— Don Lemon Tonight (@DonLemonTonight) June 16, 2021
Even after all we saw that preposterous orange clown do and say over four interminable years, his behavior toward Putin and his minions, especially in Helsinki, will never not be shocking to me. I guess I’ll always be a Cold War kid. Anyhoo, open thread!
Baud
Reposted.
germy
The Moar You Know
“Summit” apparently over. This is going to be interesting.
Major Major Major Major
Curious to see what actually happened, and comes of it… as much as I appreciate the pomp and circumstance of most diplomacy, China and Russia are just bummers, aesthetically.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
I can’t really disagree with him, but JFC do I ever hate Cillizza.
SiubhanDuinne
@germy:
SRSLY?
Lyrebird
@SiubhanDuinne:
Thanks for reading it so I don’t have to…
because I totally agree with you!
Old School
@germy:
Well, in their defense, when has that ever hurt the Democrats?
brendancalling
@Baud: Chris Cillizza, CNN’s clown prince. Master of the obvious. Longtime Trump fluffer. And of course (pardon the self-referential link) Cillizza was one of the most disgusting when it came to pushing the bogus Tara Reade story, which he has NEVER apologized for or acknowledged was bogus. His list of sins—going all the way back to “Mad Bitch Beer,” a dig at Hillary Clinton—is endless.
As an old friend of mine used to say, “if he was on fire, I wouldn’t waste good piss on him.”
VeniceRiley
I love Fiona Hill so much.
jonas
Didn’t Trump infamously not record or have any note-takers at any of his
performance evaluationssummits, with Putin?Joe Falco
@germy:
Dems weren’t going to win a fight that ultimately may matter little if the intelligence community was able to parse through what was said during the meeting and didn’t need to expend precious time and energy on this when there are other matters to focus on. The optics may look bad, but the Dems are focusing on strategy, not cheap political points.
germy
@jonas:
If there were any notes, Trump tore them up. As one does.
germy
germy
People are knocking on the doors of Yavapai County residents and asking how they voted in the last election, while falsely claiming to represent the county recorder’s office, sheriff’s office officials said.
Mike in NC
We need to hear a lot more from Fiona Hill, LTC Vindman, and the many other people who were muzzled by the Orange Clown’s henchmen for those four terrible years.
Also, the only ones who have the details of what Putin and Trump ever spoke about are the Russians. Trump made sure the notes from the proceedings were destroyed (obviously he broke the law there on numerous occasions).
billcinsd
@germy: and probably ate them
L85NJGT
@germy:
Come on now. I’m sure he took the Gordon Gekko bit from Wall Street of shredding birthday cards, crayon drawings from Don Jr., his tie….
Betty Cracker
@SiubhanDuinne: Stopped clock rule — he’s terrible.
Did you ever see “Broadcast News” with Holly Hunter, William Hurt and Albert Brooks? Haven’t seen it in ages, but I remember a speech by Brooks in which he denounced how people like Hurt’s character were degrading the practice of broadcast journalism.
Someone could reboot that movie for modern times, substituting the internet for TV and a vacuous click-baiter modeled on Cillizza for the handsome but not-too-bright news anchor Hurt played. It’s worse now because the Cillizzas aren’t even eye candy!
germy
Kay
@germy:
That’s the “canvass” that was in the original plan. Republicans said they took it out, but they were obviously lying.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: She gets a lot of likes from Tankie Twitter. The horseshoe is a circle
germy
Joe Falco
@germy:
The scammers and identity thieves should send the Arizona GOP a fruit basket and a thank you note for giving them such a rich opportunity to scam the unsuspecting. The audit has been a great opportunity for all hucksters and scammers from top to bottom.
cain
@germy:
These people are certifiable. Impersonating a govt agency and violating privacy? Their white privilege is strong knowing that they won’t get more than a slap on the wrist – fuck these people.
Regarding the Trump/Putin – his performance was so bad – his almost servile attitude towards Putin should have bought the ring wingers to a frothing mess, but nope.. hell if Trump had gotten down on one knee and kissed Putin’s fingers they would have defended it as showing proper respect to a political leader and all leaders should do it!
Betty Cracker
@Joe Falco:
I think this is generally true and sounds noble, but it’s not a good thing. We need to work on that. You don’t get to implement strategy if you don’t beat the pants off your opponents, and scoring cheap political points is useful in that regard.
germy
@Kay:
What do they do, spray paint a big “X” on the house of anyone who admits to voting for a Democrat?
cain
@Kay:
Shocking!
waspuppet
Actual Fox News chryon from two days ago: Biden praises Putin, criticizes Republicans.
germy
@Joe Falco:
The GOP is one big circle of scammers. It’s the party of “We’re calling about your auto warranty” spam calls, except the caller is standing outside with a loaded rifle.
germy
@cain:
You’re right, it takes a certain boldness to go door to door like that without fear.
Just Chuck
@germy: Someone should remind Noor that Obama won against her uncle.
trollhattan
@jonas:
IIRC they forced the translator to have a lobotomy afterwards.
cain
@waspuppet:
Isn’t that exactly what Trump was doing? It must be fun to be a fox news person where the reality is always changing from year to year.
germy
@Just Chuck:
Her uncle went out with a bang, I can tell you that…
MisterForkbeard
@germy: Honestly, I think those records just don’t exist and we’re not getting them.
I’m not sure Trump ever actually allowed honest records to be made in the first place.
Eric S.
@Joe Falco: I’d assume our Intelligence Services were listening in via TFG’s cell phone like everyone else in the world.
trollhattan
@germy:
“Nice car you got dere. Be a shame if it were suddenly filled wit holes.”
Kay
@germy:
“In a letter on May 5, an attorney from the U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division warned that such canvassing could violate federal law.“Past experience with similar investigative efforts around the country has raised concerns that they can be directed at minority voters, which potentially can implicate the anti-intimidation prohibitions of the Voting Rights Act,” principal deputy assistant attorney general Pamela Karlan wrote. “Such investigative efforts can have a significant intimidating effect on qualified voters that can deter them from seeking to vote in the future.”
I think they should take action on each and every one of these. Sue and sue and sue. Make violating the voting rights act an absolutely miserable experience and one that results in immediate legal action.
They’re getting bolder and bolder with the intimidation tactics. In 2012 they were confronting and interrogating voters at polling places- they now go their homes.
Pretend it’s a fucking bank robbery. We don’t send the robbers a warning letter and request they stop robbing.
mrmoshpotato
@Eric S.: Ahhh yes – the traitorous orange shitstain’s unsecure iPhone.
But her emails! ?
trollhattan
@Eric S.:
Super-duper password-cracking leads intelligence agencies to Trump’s “0000.” After he’s advised to change it, it takes them many uncomfortable minutes before they crack “Ivanka?”
Ken
Part of it’s the accent. Like many Americans, I’ve been conditioned to hear that accent and think “kind, funny, intelligent person”. Well, up until Act IV, when Inspector Morse reveals the murderer.
Bret Devereaux is starting a new series of blog posts on “Who Were the Romans“, and notes that TV has also conditioned us to think that the Romans spoke with British accents, what he calls “The Queen’s Latin”.
Kay
I assume you all know this, but if one of Donald Trump’s low quality employees comes to your residence and demands to know who lives there you can tell them to fuck off and get off your property.
You’re not subject to interrogation by the Trump fake-police. If they come back and bother you again they’re trespassing and you may call law enforcement and make a complaint. Be sure and get a plate number.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
open thread?
trollhattan
@Ken:
I totally am on board. Further, variations–Scottish and New Zealand in particular–really get me and I’ll listen to Nicola Sturgeon and Jacinda Ardern read restaurant menus.
What’s the haggis special today, Nicola?
ETA, and then there are the faux Brits, like Gorka, who I reflexively want to punch.
Ken
@Kay: Does Arizona have a “castle doctrine”?
Kelly
@Kay: The “audit” is Maricopa county. The Yavapai county door knockers are up to something else.
JaySinWA
@Kay: The reporting is not very convincing that this is a large scale operation. It might be a few wanna-be Project Veritas types trying to score points.
It’s also possible they are scouting homes vulnerable for burglary using recent news as a pretext. All the more reason to find them and put them out of business.
trollhattan
Maybe THIS time they can steal it for her, fair and square.
zhena gogolia
@Joe Falco:
Thank you.
trollhattan
@Ken:
If Arizona is going to share our coming heatwave any canvassers will die in (checks notes) 90 seconds outside, with no AC. Vultures drool in anticipation.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and I love John Thaw, but his Morse isn’t that kind… the book Morse shows more flashes of kindness, especially to Lewis
I find Fiona Hill very credible and persuasive, and I can’t deny the accent might be part of that, which is pretty funny as she herself says her working-class, Northern (!) would have held her back in a government service career in Britain.
OTOH, I just heard John Bolton on NPR, and there’s a part of me that always wonders, “Why would she work for him?”
Bolton blah-blah-blah’d about how the summit was a mistake, Biden has no plan. Then the interviewer brought up that as someone who was there in the run-up (and I believe aftermath?) of Helsinki, etc, does he understand that a lot of people don’t find him credible? And Bolton responded, “So what’s your point?” and fair play to him. The better question is why NPR would have this goon on to bloviate.
JaySinWA
@Kay: Given the Sheriff’s warning, locals shouldn’t wait for a second try to report the impostors.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan:
The Dragon of Budapest! (ht to Rick Wilson)
Leto
@trollhattan: I wonder if it’s the same combination as his luggage…
WaterGirl
@Old School:
Big sigh. I was hoping to never hear that particular phrase again.
Timurid
How high is Vladimir Putin right now?
rikyrah
@Kay:
I know. Make it expensive for them. Charge them all.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
YESSSS
A REAL Democrat running for this office.
Kay
@JaySinWA:
Sure. They can always do the “suspicious car in the neighborhood” call. Police here think it’s justified if it’s unmarked and not a delivery vehicle. It’s true too- robbers really do go out ahead and do a run through and these people admit they’re targeting certain addresses.
It would be fun, too – the justification for bothering the voter is the low quality hires have determined that voter is “suspicious”. Turn that right around on them.
Martin
@WaterGirl: I don’t think Meeks used it as a compliment.
Baud
@Timurid:
Not high enough?
Joe Falco
@trollhattan:
Mitch isn’t waiting on Herschel Walker to step aside, which he likely will imo. Next time around, Georgia Republicans won’t split their vote for one Republican and not the other (probably because they detested Kelly) that gave both Ossoff and Warnock their wins. Kelly will have more Republicans voting for her because they will be united in denying Biden and the Dems any more legislative and judicial wins.
Baud
@Joe Falco: O&W won in runoffs where it was a two-person race.
cain
@Kay:
You are absolutely right – these are actionable things that we can do. They should be made to be afraid – right now they are bold and safe in their white privilege that they can get away with it. We should definitely be asking our reps to pressure the DOJ to go after these people.
James E Powell
@trollhattan:
I would like Loeffler to be the candidate against Senator Warnock. She’s a not particularly likable half-billionaire who is not from Georgia. (When did she move there? Does she really live there or is it just where one of her homes is located?)
Will the Rs let her have the slot or find a good ol’ boy?
cain
@Baud: I think his point was that – it was a run off because Herschel didn’t give up and it was possible one or the other could have won outright. Next time the Georgia GOP will be more disciplined or could turn their dirty tricks on other GOP contenders – who knows?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy:
So Meeks “once considered” looking back, but decided not to, and now he’s sniping at Biden for not conducting oversight?
FTR I think these things are far more complicated than we get, but my own bias is to make everything public.
Another Scott
Thanks for the pointer. An excellent interview, and I’m glad she helped prep Biden and the team.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@cain:
Right. It was close and could go the other way the next time. But the notion that O&W will definitely lose a head to head race is not justified by the facts.
catclub
@germy: That sure sounds like an Onion headline.
Kay
@cain:
I don’t like the idea of making them “afraid”. Prosecutors have enormous discretion on what they pursue and focus on. Just make this a priority. If there’s actions that look like they violate the VRA do an ordinary, workaday investigation, but do one every single time. The key to me is not a big round up- it’s steady, consistent enforcement of each and every federal voting protection.
They said they wouldn’t canvass, they got a warning and they’re canvassing anyway. Go to the next step.
Joe Falco
@Baud:
I know. According to the local NPR station at the time, there were voters that voted for Perdue but not Loeffler as well. Reasons that were given included not liking Loeffler, feeling at least one Republican Senator was enough to send a message to Trump and the GOP, etc. The split Republican support was enough of a factor to make the difference in the end and elected both Democrats.
Baud
@Joe Falco: The two Dems didn’t receive the same number of votes either.
Just Chuck
@JaySinWA: Pick them up and throw the book at them. If they were hired by the “auditors”, they’ll squeal before you can even slap the cuffs on them.
sdhays
One of the other rather shocking things in the Fiona Hill interview was how she said that even Putin himself seemed to realize that he’d gone to far and tried to help Dumpy Dump out during the joint press conference in Helsinki. Putin could see in real time how utterly dominating his asset in public was going to create a backlash that would increase the difficulties in furthering his objectives.
Kay likes to talk about Dump’s “low quality hires” (and it’s a great phrase), but in Helsinki, Putin got to see first-hand how Dump himself is a low quality hire. There’s no quality anywhere in that chain.
Ohio Mom
I have lots of confidence in Biden, and I assume some of what he says is white lies —
Of course someone looked back to see where Biden is starting from. They just don’t want the public relations headache of a long drawn-out version of he-said-she-said. Playing dumb is easier.
I just worry that whatever Biden accomplishes will be undone sooner or later by a Republican. I take Biden’s optimism as a sign of his deep religious feelings. He has a faith that things can work out.
BruceFromOhio
President Biden on the teevee now, and he’s fulla piss and vinegar about Vlad.
Martin
Martin places link to The Intercepts leaked audio from Manchin talking to No Labels donors regarding preserving the filibuster, and slowly backs away from the comment section.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ohio Mom: Mandela: I am fundamentally an optimist. Whether that comes from nature or nurture, I cannot say. Part of being optimistic is keeping one’s head pointed toward the sun, one’s feet moving forward. There were many dark moments when my faith in humanity was sorely tested, but I would not and could not give myself up to despair.
Mary G
I trust Uncle Joe:
“Fuck you, Vlad, but here’s a nice consolation prize.”
TomatoQueen
Grrr John Thaw was as Oxford/Received Pronunciation as they get. Dear Fiona Hill is from Bishop Auckland, south enough of Newcastle to be a possible TOON supporter and to speak with a mixed but not full Geordie accent, but my full Geordie consultant says the Southerners can’t be grouped together, each one decides individually. She could be ‘boro. When he says Southerner he’s referring about 25 miles south of his house on the coast, which is pronounced “curst.”
elm
@Betty Cracker: I suspect political points may, in fact,be useful in elections and portraying Trump as servile to Putin would be good strategy.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Martin: Jim sees the bylines of Chief Tara Reade Correspondent Ryan Grim and BLM-Is-Unfair-To-Cops Correspondent Lee Fang and rolls his eyes so hard it hurts, decides to skim article anyway, is someone pleasantly surprised, but remains skeptical. He will believe it when he sees it, and hopes to see it.
Manchin’s openness for filibuster reform on the call is notable given it flew in the face of many attendees’ hopes. Asked about a proposal to lower the threshold to beat back a filibuster to 55 votes, he said that it was something he was considering, but then quickly referred back to his earlier idea of forcing the minority to show up on the Senate floor in large enough numbers to maintain a filibuster.
“That’s that’s one of many good, good suggestions I’ve had,” he said of lowering the cloture total from 60 to 55. Manchin went on to discuss the last time the cloture threshold was lowered, in the 1970s.
“I looked back … when it went from 67 votes to 60 votes, and also what was happening, what made them think that it needed to change. So I’m open to looking at it, I’m just not open to getting rid of the filibuster, that’s all,” he said.
Manchin acknowledged that publicly he had drawn a line at 60, but said that he was open to other ideas. “Right now, 60 is where I planted my flag, but as long as they know that I’m going to protect this filibuster, we’re looking at good solutions,” he said.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Jim was going to put that long quote in block quote and maybe pare it down a bit, but he accidentally hit publish and now has no edit button.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In solidarity with Reality, I wasn’t going to give The Intercept a click. But I’m glad you provided the relevant text. Sounds about the same as what he’s been saying publically.
Baud
@Baud:
If I thought Manchin were a crafty person, I’d be inclined to believe he leaked that himself.
Kathleen
@Baud: Was this when Trump became Presidential?
Joe Falco
@Baud:
My point is that Loeffler lost in an environment that heavily favors Republicans and a lot of factors why she lost will not be the case next time around if it’s down to her and Warnock in a general election. I’m not saying it’s a sure bet that either Loeffler or Warnock will prevail. The situation will be different, and Democrats will have to plan accordingly.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@elm:
Good morning Mr Van Winkle! I’d like to fill you in on the last five years….
Omnes Omnibus
@Mary G: A $6k bike for BoJo and a $250 pair of sunglasses for Putin. No message there….
Baud
@Joe Falco:
Among other things, won’t Stacey be on the ballot for governor at the same time? That’ll drive turnout, probably on both sides.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
International diplomacy = dysfunctional family Xmas.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: It is known.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: I thought he went a bit further than he has publicly? He seemed to at least be pretending (I recognize the reality of Manchin, doesn’t mean I like or trust him) to be open to reform?
If ever there were two idiots to idiotic that Joe Manchin (or his CoS) could figure out how to make use of them, it would be Fang and Grim.
Fang and Grim…. A law firm in Ankh Morpork? a combination assassin-undertaker firm in the Shades?
Kathleen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: YES!!!! I’ve been donating as budget allows.
elm
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If you think political campaigning can rest on it’s laurels or assume that people know even obvious things, then I can’t help you.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I can’t really tell. Maybe it sounds more positive because it’s all laid out in one place, whereas all his other remarks are reported in bits and pieces. Anywho, it’s not worse than what we believed. I’ll take it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@elm:
there’s an edit button if you’d like to attempt to rewrite that into a sentence that makes sense, and it’s “its”
Oh, good lord, you’re one of the last people here I’d ask for help!
Kathleen
@Omnes Omnibus: Could you please post this every day? I need to see this daily. Thank you in advance.
hilts
@VeniceRiley:
Fiona Hill has one of the most mellifluous speaking voices of all-time.
I wish she’d consider recording audio for some literary classics.
And kudos to the great Don Lemon for getting this interview, he’s the quintessential king of cool in cable news!
Another Scott
Biden’s post-meeting statement was good. He’s doing well in the press conference right now (listening on C-Span Radio).
He knows how to do this public leadership stuff.
Cheers,
Scott.
JoyceH
Does anyone else think that the US intel community already knows what was said at the Trump-Putin meeting, probably verbatim? They just would prefer that it not become public. (How would they know? Simple. The Russians recorded it, and we’ve got hackers too.)
debbie
@Another Scott:
I’ve been listening and I don’t believe he called on Fox or any other RWNJ media outlet. Yay!
sdhays
@Baud: Following on your hypothetical about Manchin being devious, one might wonder if this “leak” is a response to Moscow Mitch’s declaration that he would stomp Democrats to the curb if the GQP ever returns to the majority. Although I’d prefer actions rather than leaked words as a response.
Stunning how that was treated as just another story in the national media.
Joe Falco
@Baud:
Yes, it will! And I hope it favors our side. I hope a lot of things breaks in our favor whether it’s a popular and now nationally recognized candidate turning out more Democratic voters, the effects the Democratic-supported legislation that’s passed this year and next will have on voters, etc. I wasn’t trying to sound pessimistic about Warnock’s chances. I’m just acknowledging that McConnell wants the best chance for him becoming Senate Majority Leader again, and he believes that path is possible through Loeffler and not Walker. And he may be right! Maybe Loeffler would provide a stronger challenge than Walker would. Maybe some of her weaknesses she had during the ’20 election will no longer apply to her in the ’22 election or not. We don’t know yet. Either way, it will not be the same election scenario.
gene108
@germy:
Enough people have doorbell cameras that I’m surprised no one got an image of who these canvassers are.
sdhays
@Joe Falco: I wonder if Dumpy Dump will endorse her. He wasn’t thrilled with endorsing her the first time around, and she’s a loser (not like President Dumpy!). She let him down.
ETA: I assume he considers her a major reason he lost Georgia. She is, after all, a vagina-American.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
That Biden even knew enough to gift someone a handbuilt American bicycle confirms some things about Joe I only suspected previously. The classic Stingray and his cycling photo ops aren’t just marketing creations (not strictly, at least).
It is a damn fine bicycle at that. (Whether BoJo groks that can only be guessed.)
Mallard Filmore
@germy:
Heh. Why even do that? It’s not a real canvas for a real audit.
Simply ignore the response and mark down a predetermined answer.
Omnes Omnibus
@elm: Have you really just come back to tell us we are doing it wrong?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mallard Filmore: They could ask Republicans to smear some blood over their doors.
elm
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry, I know that correcting people is your job. But since you asked, I commented to support something Betty said.
Joe Falco
@sdhays:
She committed two major sins in the eyes of her Lord: she lost her election, and she publicly reversed her earlier plan to vote against certifying the election. The second one is likely the most egregious and will cost her any endorsement from True Believer Republicans.
germy
“There is no happiness in life, there is only a mirage on the horizon”
— Putin
catclub
Found on Axios. Does anybody buy this? I find it very hard to believe.
It sure sounds like a that guy is selling his own service. Wouldn’t there be lots of people complaining that they never got their unemployment money, if this were true?
germy
sdhays
@Joe Falco: Oh, I had forgotten that. Good luck having an uncontested GQP-side with that hanging over her head.
Baud
@catclub: Yeah, it’s probably BS.
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: All we are is dust on the wind.
germy
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is actually my take as well. Manchin told them he doesn’t want to get rid of the filibuster but will reform it if necessary. And he tells them that if they want to keep the filibuster in place, they need to talk to Republican Senators to actually make a compromise.
Maybe I need to do more than skim it, but it seems unexceptionable.
KrackenJack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Vertical integration, so to speak.
catclub
But I sure hope they are pursuing the records of his phone calls with the president of Ukraine that got put in ( to cover asses) the Top Security safe.
Elizabelle
WRT Fiona Hill: I can truly imagine her and Biden having a laugh together. He would not be afraid of her, and would be knowledgeable enough they could converse easily. I wonder how much she has told him and his staff privately about her dealings with TFG’s administration and her surmises about their activities. No need to be loyal to traitors.
Ken
@Mallard Filmore: They’re going to report fraud, because when they asked people who they voted for, they got Trump over Biden by a seven-to-three margin.
If pressed, they may admit that works out to seven people saying Trump, three saying Biden, and ninety telling them to FOAD.
Ken
It reminds me a bit more of Croup and Valdemar from Gaiman’s Neverwhere. Of course Dickens set the pattern.
Wapiti
@catclub: At least one of the spouse’s co-workers (in a 4 person shop) was advised that their unemployment claim was received – and they hadn’t made one. I think it was widespread, yes. 50%? Dunno.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
What a piece of shit
Chief Oshkosh
@Joe Falco:
Not to pick on you, but one person’s cheap political points are another person’s valuable political points to be used to hold corrupt, traitorous miscreants accountable for their bad, and possibly, criminal behavior.
We let a lot of people off from Nixon’s October Surprise, then Nixon’s Watergate. Those lovelies, mentoring a new batch of criminals, then came back with Reagan’s October Surprise and Iran/Contra. We let a lot of THOSE people off, and golly gee whiz, we get Shrub and the Retreads failing us on the lead-up to 9/11 and then lying us into wars of aggression. Oh, and Katrina. We let a lot of THOSE people off, and we ended up with Trump and a ready-made Rolodex of re-re-tread minions and power brokers PLUS all the hucksters Trump directly brought with him.
Just for variety, how about we start some nut-cutting this time around?
Mallard Filmore
@Ken:
Of course. That is the job of the organizers. Even if one assumes the field workers did their job honestly, there is no reason to assume the management will honestly record the answers, keep a verifiable audit trail, or anything like that.
It is not an honest operation so “who counts the votes” becomes more interesting than the votes.
Chief Oshkosh
@JoyceH: They may or may not have it, but it’s not like they’ll do anything about it. The Trump years proved over and over and over that the institutions are just not up to it when it comes to protecting US democracy. If Trump were just one iota smarter, he’d have been re-elected.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
She is great. Who is she? She followed up too.
Chief Oshkosh
@KrackenJack: You two win the Intertoobes for the day! Admittedly, splitting a stale graham cracker isn’t great, but the milk is fresh, and there’s lots of it!
zhena gogolia
@germy:
Great clip!!!
JoyceH
@Chief Oshkosh:
People keep saying that, or the variant ‘if not for COVID’, but I’m not so sure. I can remember waaay back to 2019, and seems to me that the substantial majority of Americans were already pretty damn sick of Trump even before the pandemic.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@catclub: You had criminals over seas claiming unemployment and automated systems in the states sending out checks.
germy
@zhena gogolia:
not_a_cylon
I’d like to know which Calvin and Hobbes comic she has hanging on the wall behind her.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
He is such a class act.
Geminid
@Joe Falco: The Georgia Senate runoff numbers were interesting. In the general election, incumbent David Perdue received 2,462,000 votes (rounded to a thousand). Jon Ossoff got 2,374,000, and Libertarian Shane Hazel recieved 115,000, preventing Perdue from winning the required majority. While many discounted Ossoff’s chances in the runoff because the Democratic vote typically drops off more than the Republican in runoffs, it was Perdue’s vote that dropped more, by about 250,000. Ossoffs vote total dropped by 105,000, and he beat Perdue by 55,000 votes January 5.
Raphael Warnock won a plurality in the November 3 jungle primary. With the other 14 candidates off the board January 5, Warnock beat Loeffler by 94,000 votes, 2,289,000 to 2,195,000. Warnock ran ~20,000 votes ahead of Ossoff, and Loeffler ran ~20,000 votes behind Perdue.
An interesting number from the 2020 Georgia general election was the total presidential votes cast: 4,935,000. This was an increase of almost a million from the total votes in 2016, 3,967,000. Clinton lost to trump by ~200,000 in 2016, while Biden beat trump by about 12,000 in 2020.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
Her name is Rachel V. Scott. Kudos!
germy
@zhena gogolia:
Thank you. I was searching for her name.
zhena gogolia
Journalism is not dead!
germy
@zhena gogolia:
Her pinned tweet:
zhena gogolia
@germy:
I’ve bookmarked her twitter feed.
Kay
Great news. The low quality Trump hires sat on these for 4 years.
Geminid
@JoyceH: A substantial majority of Americans were fed up with trump by 2019. But considering that it is still the Electoral College that decides the winner, this was a close election. Not “close” as in having an ambiguous result, but”close” as in Biden needed to run a mistake free campaign, even while trump ran a mediocre one. Contrary to polling leading up to November 3, Biden’s win was far from a sure thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@JoyceH: A lot of people are very concerned that some states that gave Biden his EC victory were very close and that any given thing could have changed the result.
I am less worried than some because I think we are aware of the dangers and are taking steps to overcome them.*. Others’ mileage varies.
*I am not saying concerns are unwarranted nor am I saying that everything is fine. So for those of you who are going to argue, please recognize that.
catclub
I agree. Trump having even a mediocre response to Covid – “This is war, lets work together to fix it” would have won.
James E Powell
@JoyceH:
I think COVID and Trump’s incompetence and lying turned most of the political press/media. Whereas in 2016 they promoted & protected him to save the nation from that horrible harridan Hillary, in 2020 they thought maybe an actual president who actually gives a shit might be a good idea.
Without COVID, I think they stick with the economy is great and liberals are out of touch with Real American Diners.
JaySinWA
@catclub: Here in WA the fraud was rampant in the early days of relaxed UI under the pandemic. As in 650 million. Out of country actors orchestrated it. They stopped taking any claims for weeks while getting some form of fraud control baked into the software claims system. The fraudsters drained the reserves and made it harder for legitimate claims. Searching for news on that I see that I missed a second wave, not as lucrative but systems are still under attack.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/washington-hit-by-second-wave-of-unemployment-fraud-but-state-says-criminals-arent-getting-paid/
Nigerian involved arrested this year:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/first-arrest-made-in-washington-states-650-million-unemployment-fraud/
Omnes Omnibus
@catclub: @James E Powell: I think that, if it hadn’t been COVID, it would have been something else. I don’t think Trump could have run a positive, come together campaign.
In any case, COVID happened and Trump was Trump.
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
There are efforts going on in several places to educate people on how to overcome new barriers, notably Georgia.
The gerrymandering is going to be harder to counteract.
Ruckus
@sdhays:
None. Never has been, never will be.
Geminid
@catclub: There are always “what ifs” in a close election. One I thought of right after the last one is: what if the trump campaign hadn’t poured valuable October messaging bandwidth into the Hunter Biden laptop rabbit hole? They really thought they had a rocket that could blow Biden out of the water, but it turned out to be a damp sparkler. I thought Ted Cruz was correct when he was asked to assess the laptop story and said, “I don’t think it will move a single vote.”
I think the campaign’s ineffectiveness reflected the same two traits that hindered trump’s presidency: his laziness and narcissism. His top staffers catered to his indiscipline, and told him what he wanted to hear. trump prided himself as a business genius, but he was always a one man show with subservient underlings. As president trump needed but would never work with a strong chief of staff like James Baker or John Sununu. Instead, he was a trash magnet who attracted ambitious sycophants. trump himself is trash, though, and he got the crappy service he deserved.
sdhays
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree. Saying “if only Dump did …” is like saying “if only Dump had turned into a unicorn shitting gold bricks for distribution to the populace”. His COVID response was the only response he was ever capable of. Given the chance, he would change nothing, except to double down on the worst aspects of his “response”.
And if not for COVID, the campaign would be completely different. He wasn’t cruising to reelection before COVID either; he was desperately thrashing around to abuse his power to get other countries to tear down his most feared opponent. Maybe he would have won. But I don’t concede it as more than 50/50.
CODave
@germy: I haven’t seen this in any of the replies (but I could have missed it). Josh Marshall has a good explanation https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/on-those-helsinki-translator-notes
Basically, there’s no need for Congress to pursue this as Biden is President and has access to every record he wants.
J R in WV
@cain:
If they came to my remote home, I would consider holding them at gunpoint while we wait for the cops to come, if they couldn’t show me photo ID issued by the office they claim to represent.
Of course, I’m NOT in Arizona right now, it’s way too Fuqin hot out there right now. Tho it’s pretty nice here in WV yesterday and today.
I expect that calling the cops while holding them would stop their criminal fraudulent canvassing dead in their tracks.
Nutmeg again
I could listen to Dr. Fiona Hill pour out wisdom all day.
J R in WV
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Well said… also a mobbed up crook !!!
WaterGirl
@Mary G: I don’t trust Putin. I hope they put something on Biden’s hands that would make any poison impenetrable and he handled anything Putin had touched with gloves on.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Do we know what Putin gave Biden?
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl:
An ulcer?