Free beer offer results in more vaccinations than all Erie County first-dose clinics last week:
The idea of getting vaccinated had been rolling around in the back of Tyler Morsch’s mind for weeks. As a 28-year-old, he didn’t feel in any particular danger, but he finally decided he should start looking for a Covid-19 vaccination clinic this week. Then he heard the magic words.
“Free beer,” he said.
Saturday was the first day that Erie County worked with a local microbrewery to host its Shot and a Chaser program, offering individuals who got their first dose of the Covid-19 vaccine at Resurgence Brewing Company a free pint glass and coupon for the vaccinated person’s drink of choice.
Efforts like this targeting the ~20% of the population who will get vaccinated if it’s convenient are what we should be concentrating on, not the noisy MAGAt anti-vaxxers. One exception: someone should buy billboards in the biggest Fox News markets pointing out that Tucker Carlson has been vaccinated for (probably) months.
WereBear
I just heard about this when I got up! What a great idea!
NY has been supporting local microbreweries, and encouraging the growing of hops. Once upon a time, NY sent hops to Germany.
Cheryl Rofer
Absolutely.
Also have mobile units to people who have difficulty getting out.
WereBear
@Cheryl Rofer: People will come out when they hear the ice cream truck :)
dr. bloor
No doubt lends itself to fascinating discussions about whether the side effects are worse with Moderna, Pfizer, or Genny Cream Ale.
SFAW
@dr. bloor:
I don’t think two shots of Genny Cream will have much in the way of “side effects.”
dmsilev
Sure, incentives are nice and all, but also work at filing down the obstacles. Pop-up clinics at work places, schools (both for kids and parents, especially once the 12-16 authorization goes through), churches, etc. Paid time off for coping with the side effects. Etc.
Low Key Swagger
@dmsilev: Yes, this. I get why we have to incentivize these pampered people, but I hate it. We have to bribe people to have a sense of community.
dmsilev
As to why people aren’t getting the vaccine, here are some reasons:
(also read a bit further in to see some direct quotes from survey respondents about their reasons)
Also, too,
Arguing with this group is a waste of time. Once their employer requires it or they need it to attend a concert or get on an airplane, then some will, albeit with lots of kicking and screaming. But not until then.
Uncle Jeffy
Apparently whatever vaccine F*er Carlson got, it didn’t prevent him from being a complete a**hole.
WereBear
@Uncle Jeffy: If we only had a vaccine for that…
dmsilev
@WereBear: We live in an era of miracles of medicine, but sadly even miraculous intervention has its limits.
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: Kids can have a lot of influence on their parents.
When my niece was 7 she kept at her dad about smoking: “Daddy, please stop smoking, I don’t want you to die.”
He quit.
Vaccinating kids and parents at school is smart – kids are smart and would surely ask “I got a shot, why aren’t you getting one?”
Cermet
@Uncle Jeffy: The one shot carlson needs is a piece of lead encased in a copper jacket that has been heated via air friction
debbie
Can’t find it now, but Schooley has suggested this very thing.
narya
Cinnamon toast is the best toast, especially when the bread is spent grain/whole wheat bread. That is all.
dr. bloor
@SFAW:
I dunno about that. Just the thought of injecting Genny into my veins is creating serious GI discomfort.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Cermet: Please don’t
Fair Economist
I’d like to see media focus more on the effects of COVID. If the evening news had one of the phluff pieces each week be about a previously young and healthy person struggling with the aftereffects of Long COVID, even a lot of the hard resistors would flip. Especially since the person will be talking about what a horrible mistake they made refusing the vaccine.
MagdaInBlack
@narya: Agreed, but english muffin bread toast ?
Nobody in particular
Free Beer? Oh…
Should have read the whole post. Can I get vaccinated twice, (4 times) in two months?
Nevermind.
debbie
@MagdaInBlack:
For me, at the moment, it’s an English muffin with butter and raspberry jam. (More honestly, it’s butter with some raspberry jam on an English muffin platform.)
WereBear
@Fair Economist: And you have to ask yourself… why don’t they?
sdhays
@Uncle Jeffy: It’s amazing how such a huge asshole can always look so constipated.
MattF
I can look back to my own (mild) reluctance. My vaccination wasn’t going to make any difference, my car wasn’t working, the mass vaccination websites were a mess. An old friend offered to drive me anywhere I wanted to go, and I got a push (from Twitter!) to try to sign up with CVS— and it worked. The media narrative is about Tuckums Carlson and how Bill Gates is not getting people injected with 5G nanobots, which is all counterproductive. Some good interviews, with pictures, of taco trucks at vaccination sites would be better
ETA: This was all two months ago.
opiejeanne
@debbie: Mine is zucchini bread with butter.
Neldob
@debbie: who would and could do this? I would donate.
Baud
@debbie:
Won’t that deter decent people from getting vaccinated?
Joey Maloney
Why billboards? Why not buy commercial time during Tuckum’s show? You could even encourage viewers to call the Fox switchboard right now to ask why he wants to kill his viewers.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@SFAW:
@dr. bloor:
I grew up where Genesee was the local beer. That and Utica Club. It amazed me when I moved out of state and found that Genny Cream Ale could be purchased outside of Central New York. Why?
UncleEbeneezer
Yeah but maybe Tucker had a good reason to get vaccinated…
A Ghost to Most
In WNY, tell them ONLY white christians can get the vax. They’ll stampede the vax centers.
Fair Economist
@UncleEbeneezer:
That would be *really* effective as a nightly news personal interest piece.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Well, I’ve had my second Pfizer (yesterday) and I’m in a bit of a dilemma. I don’t feel awful. I don’t feel great either, but the symptoms are subtle enough that it took me a while to decide that I was actually having identifiable symptoms.
A few sore muscles, especially the arm where I got the shot. A little bit of fatigue. Not dying, but really grateful to be sitting or lying down. Certainly not enough pain or misery to pull the full Man Cold routine.
So the dilemma is whether I can really justify spoiling myself. However, I’ve been given carte blanc to sit on the sofa all day, so I think I’ll take advantage of it.
And also, there’s one odd symptom. I didn’t even think this was a symptom, but we compared notes (my wife is a couple of weeks ahead of my schedule) and realized we both got this: genital tenderness. That’s one I never heard of from the CDC.
Edit: And now juxtaposed with the comments at #32 and #34…
sdhays
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, but these fancy schmancy mRNA vaccines might make your tallywacker fall completely off; WE DON’T KNOW THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS!1!1!!
More research is necessary. //
randy khan
Obviously a multi-pronged approach is necessary. I’m all in favor of incentives – beer, gift cards, whatever – and of finding ways to make it more convenient. My current idea of choice is to send vaccinators to houses of worship. Let the clergy announce a week in advance so people can plan, but since so many people already have going to church in their schedules, it’s really convenient, and also may lead to more impromptu decisions to get stuck. I hear some MLB teams are having vaccinators at home games, which I also like, and I would do the same for any outdoor event of any size. We’ve been doing wholesale vaccination up until now – it’s time to shift to retail.
Puddinhead
@dr. bloor: it’s not true Genny Cream Ale until there’s rust on the can.
dr. bloor
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Same–it was dad’s beverage of choice.
More surprising than seeing it outside of upstate was encountering beer
moronssnobs who regarded it as some undiscovered treasure.Nelle
@Fair Economist: Isnt erectile dysfunction one possible effect of Covid? If so, publicize that. ETA: Oh, I see that has come up.
Puddinhead
@sdhays: since it’s unverified I think a bunch of people should submit claims to the vaccine injury site saying it made their tallywhacker bigger. Those male vaccine hesitancy stats would turn around pronto.
Mike in NC
I can remember Fucker Carlson back when he was a long-haired, bow tie wearing, effeminate dweeb. Then they had to turn him into Bill O’Reilly v2.0 to turn a profit.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yes. Spoil yourself. More symptoms may be on the way, it can take up to 48 hours for them to show up. I started back on the treadmill too soon after my second shot, and I paid for it.
Sure Lurkalot
I hope both incentives and convenience spur the reluctant but I have to admit to some sadness that so many lack the sense of urgency. Or appreciation that they can easily obtain what billions of humans cannot and still….
planetjanet
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: About five days after my shot, I started feeling as though my skin was sore to the touch, mostly my chest and back. It was not a muscle ache related to movement. I read that it can be an immune response with the flu. Acetaminophen helped. Overall, just mild effects for me.
MagdaInBlack
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Spoil yourself. It’s Sunday. Relax. Sit a spell ?
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
Just popped in to say that I love the fact that “Tuckems” has taken off. Great job Joy!
(Although “Fuckems” would have been epic too)
sdhays
@Puddinhead: Finally, fake news used for some good.
Suzanne
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: The other weird thing that no one told me to expect was that my first period after getting the vaccine was, like, crazy. Perhaps an overshare, but it also would have been nice to know. It’s starting to go around the series of tubes.
sdhays
@Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant): Agreed, 100%. I have to stop my self from “correcting” anyone who still calls him by his real name.
planetjanet
@Suzanne: I had a full period starting the day after my first shot. I stopped having periods years ago. It was startling.
narya
@opiejeanne: @debbie: @MagdaInBlack: these are all fine choices. I almost made toad-in-the-hole. My last two batches of bread have a hole running down the middle of the loaf (and my blueberry coffee cake was too wet); you’d never know I went to pastry school and worked in a damn bakery. That said, I’ve decided that the issue with the bread is that the dough was too wet; we’ll see what happens when I bake again. It passed the windowpane test, and looked pretty good, but . . . Same thing with the cake; that’s what comes of eyeballing things juuuuust a little too much (buttermilk, in this case).
Gravenstone
@dmsilev: Have a co-worker who was loudly anti-vaccine, until told he would not be allowed to see his offspring graduate from one of the service academies this spring unless he could provide proof of being vaccinated. He still bitches constantly but damn if he didn’t get the fucking shots.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Suzanne: I’ve been married too many years to be bothered by discussions of lady things. (Those jackals who are, don’t read any farther).
Does “crazy” mean heavy or, like, psychedelic colors? Or lycanthropy?
Suzanne
@planetjanet: Some warning would have been nice.
artem1s
Cleveland baseball announced they are giving away tickets to folks who have been vaccinated. I believe the city or counties are also setting up vaccination centers at the ball parks. If the NCAA and NFL followed suit and promoted vaccinations as a way to get football back on track and the route to full stadiums, even the rubes in red states would be lined up to get shots. There will still be governors that allow arenas to fill up even with spikes in their states, but professional sports could be the last key to overcoming the idiots out there trying to bring on the apocalypse. If someone is going to spring for billboards, they should be hyping the sports that have players helping the effort (NBA, MLB) and asking why the rest haven’t signed on yet. Put LaBron and Aaron Judge on a billboard challenging Tom Brady or Big Ben to step up and do the right thing and tell their fans to get their shots see what happens. If swinging cods around is the only thing that will get the damn job done then make it so.
narya
The no-vaxxer that surprised me the most (in my circle) is my older nephew. Even my brother did it, which I wasn’t sure he would; SIL and younger nephew are either vaxxed or planning it. Older nephew is about to graduate from college with a science degree–he even has a great job that he’s already started, which will require a fair amount of travel. Everyone else I know is either vaccinated or partway there.
frosty
@planetjanet: My skin doesn’t get sore, just sensitive. Some time ago I figured out the rash I was getting is from a fever. I saw it with Moderna #2.
Bonus: I don’t need to use a thermometer any more.
Suzanne
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Heavy and fast, much more so than typical. Other women are reporting that their periods came early after getting the second shot. Apparently it’s a good thing and indicates a strong immune response. But, again, no mention of that as a potential side effect in mainstream media, and it would have been nice to be warned.
MisterForkbeard
@Suzanne: This is, incidentally, being used to scare women away from the vaccine. “It messes with your period” is one small implication away from “it messes with your fertility”.
It’s all over the rightwing media and boards. Basically the only time I’ve ever seen rightwing men acknowledge periods exist.
planetjanet
@Suzanne:
I saw an article in the Washington Post a couple of days later, which eased my fears that I was not imagining things.
Another Scott
A couple of anecdotes:
1) When I was in line to get my Pfizer #2 yesterday (Saturday) at the county health department, one of the helpers was talking with the guy immediately in front of me. He was getting his first shot. His wife (ahead of him and already being worked on) was getting her second. He said something like “I was too busy until today”…
Lesson: Make it almost too easy to get a shot.
2) I was talking with a colleague at work. Ex-Army. He hated the anthrax and smallpox vaccines he had to get there. He was wondering if the COVID-19 vaccination is going to be required. I said I assume so, once it’s fully approved, and that I figured it would be effectively required since we won’t be able to travel otherwise (our employer isn’t going to pay for people to sit around in quarantine before they can start working on travel). He said he’s not anti-vaxx, not at all, but has a friend who is always forwarding him all kinds of conspiracy theory stuff and it makes him wonder and hesitant…
Lesson: Make it required so that people don’t have to do the weighing of probabilities and think about it too much – people are horrible about weighing risks. “Boss says I gotta do it, so I gotta do it.”
Cheers,
Scott.
Suzanne
@MisterForkbeard: To be fair, it’s freaky. Good communication about health is comprehensive and frequent.
narya
@planetjanet: Did you both report it on the CDC vaxtracker thingie?
MisterForkbeard
@Suzanne: I’ve had a friend tell me she was fine because basically every medication she takes has SOME effect on her period. But I don’t imagine everyone would be so blase about it.
planetjanet
@narya:
At first I did not think it was related. Eventually I did report it one day, but not every day. I did warn my niece about it. Seems we have to support each other.
Jay
@MisterForkbeard:
yeah, they just rant on and on, no paragraph breaks, barely a comma and no periods,….//
Wyatt Salamanca
In other news, FUCK that goddamn, motherfucking cocksucker Jake Tapper!
How big of an asshole is Jake?
This big:
CNN’s Jake Tapper spoke Sunday with Jeff Zients, the White House Covid-19 response coordinator, and asked him about whether President Joe Biden is being “overly cautious” with his mask-wearing.
At one point, Tapper asked him directly if the president’s mask-wearing sends the wrong message:
h/t https://www.mediaite.com/tv/jake-tapper-presses-wh-official-is-biden-sending-wrong-message-with-overly-cautious-mask-wearing/
Chief Oshkosh
@debbie: Actually, this seems like it should be a big news story on cable news networks that aren’t Fox. I mean, look at the absolute dreck that they do “report on” in attempts to chase ratings. Shit, this story has everything. Pompous asshole gets people killed in worldwide pandemic – hell sound like Trump, and look how much free press they gave THAT loser.
Cheryl Rofer
The problem with taking off masks is that once some do it, all will do it. Particularly the assholes who shouldn’t.
CliosFanBoy
@dr. bloor: it was good, inexpensive beer. (shrug).
p.a.
For the good of the nation we should offer magats vaccine incentives. Free travel to a whites-only society. Nuremberg prison is still standing, isn’t it?
ETA: we’ll have to throw a shit-ton of free vaccine to the Germans for their acquiescence, but it’s worth a shot.
Chief Oshkosh
@Cheryl Rofer: And so this was an opportunity for the WH spokesperson to clearly state that to Jake Tapper.
Sometimes stupid questions are asked to spokespeople so that a clear response statement can be made in a way that helps some stupid people understand what is obvious to the rest of us.
As others have said, the process is incremental and the message must come from a huge variety of sources across a huge variety of media.
Keith P.
@Wyatt Salamanca: “Does XXXX send the wrong message?” is one of the laziest constructions in newsdom.
A Streeter
Ah, memories. Back in the day beers from old still-independent factory-town breweries that made it to DC, Genny Cream and several others, were nearly as cheap as Budweiser or Miller and distinctly less bad. I grew my first beer gut drinking Latrobe’s Rolling Rock, from central Pennsylvania, during my (now adult) first daughter’s infancy.
laura
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Sail that couch all day long! Spouse had a really weird response several days after jab 2. He went for a bike ride of about 40 miles and when he walked in the house the smell was Nasty – like brasso and the piss of 10 cats peeing for 10 days. The stank was more pronounced on the side of the shot. It took 3 consecutive washings to get the stank out of his jersey and he had to scrub the stank off his body in a very long and hot shower. He threatened to get some Axe body spray but agreed that doing so would just compound 2 bad stanks into one super dooper stank.
barbequebob
@dr. bloor: we lived on Genny Cream Ale in the mid 1970’s in Syracuse, where we paid $14 for a keg. Instant party.
LiminalOwl (formerly The Fat White Duchess)
@narya: Seeded rye with lots of butter, for me.
LiminalOwl (formerly The Fat White Duchess)
@Fair Economist: Yes, that would probably flip a few. But too many think they’re the exceptions and would be fine.
Cheryl Rofer
@Chief Oshkosh: I think the official message needs to be more tactful than mine. Something like “We’re in the middle of this, and we need to be cautious. That’s the message we want to send.”
satby
Sort of OT, but a great interview with my favorite former mayor that touches on infrastructure, disinformation, why he’s willing to face the liars in the fox den, etc. He’s so good in off the cuff speaking.
debbie
@Suzanne:
What other mRNA vaccines have you had? I’m not sure something like heavy periods would have been foreseen. Having said that, I had them for decades and it’s a fucking misery.
Other MJS
ICYMI: shot + beer = boilermaker
Another Scott
@Wyatt Salamanca: Meghna Chakrabarti was on her “On Point” show on NPR a day or few ago, interviewing Fauci and a couple of other people. She kept asking him over and over again what the magic metric or magic point was going to be when everything would be “back to normal”. It was infuriating to me. Sometimes things cannot be distilled to a sound bite.
He was patient with her, and kept saying that we have to keep doing what we’re doing while vaccinating as many people as we can, watching the data, etc.
Everything isn’t going back to normal everywhere when there is 73.2313% of adults vaccinated. We need to recognize the tornadoes rather than “waves” are the risk going forward.
It’s a new virus. There still is no “cure”. People are still getting infected and dying at high rates. The press demanding some fixed metric is doing a disservice.
And I have to think that Tapper and Chakrabarti and similar reporters are more interested in finding a potential “but you said!!1” gotcha than actually getting viewers/listeners to understand some of the nuance.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@dr. bloor:
I didn’t say you get vaccinated with Genny Cream, I said two shots. But if you want, we can pour them into 20-oz steins, and you can pretend you drank a lot more.
SFAW
@Another Scott:
How do you know that isn’t the “magic number”? Is 73.2312 insufficient? Is 73.2314 sufficient? Huh? Huh? Answer me that, libtard!
JMG
Every one of these discussions of post-vaccination side effects is like a foreign language to me. Pfizer #1 == notably but not severely sore am for one day. Pfizer #2 = nothing whatsoever.
germy
SFAW
@Another Scott:
I don’t get the sense that Meghna is generally that way, but I haven’t listened to enough of “On Point” lately to have a strong opinion.
germy
@JMG:
Yes, me too. Felt nothing after the 2nd. After the 1st, just slightly drowsy for a few hours during the day.
Sore arm both times, but that didn’t last.
I envy the folks here who said “I slept 14 hours after the first dose!” I would have loved a reaction like that.
Uncle Cosmo
Because Rethuglicans and corpitalists (but in large part I repeat myself) have spent the last 75 years or so destroying any and all notions of collective well-being and individual inherent self-worth, in order to amplify what Auden called The Age of Anxiety into a business opportunity.
It’s much easier to relieve people of their cash once their sense of rightness-in-this-world has been undermined and they can be hoodwinked into believing that overpriced junk or non-serviceable “services” will restore it.
It’s gonna be a long slog back from that; best we get started now.
SFAW
@germy:
What a whiner. she can just use the old standby “I had to floss my cat” excuse.
germy
@SFAW:
Or floss with my cat.
SFAW
@germy:
Similar with me. When I’m being more paranoid than usual, I wonder about whether I really generated enough antibodies in response, and whether I should still be concerned about getting it.
Baud
@SFAW:
On Balloon Juice, the go-to excuse is needing to shave the cat’s ass.
SFAW
@germy:
That’s … uh, weird.
SFAW
@Baud:
Is that a Cole-ism? [I am apparently not aware of all Internet traditions.]
Another Scott
@SFAW: i only heard a few minutes of it.
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2021/05/03/web-extra-dr-anthony-fauci-on-the-mystical-terminology-of-herd-immunity
Cheers,
Scott.
Jinchi
@WaterGirl:
My brother, sister and I did the same to my Dad when we were young children. Those “Smoke is no Joke” ads targeted at the Saturday morning shows were more effective than they could ever guess.
debbie
@Another Scott:
I heard that show. She is unbearably obnoxious, especially when she thinks she knows more than the person she’s interviewing.
I have to wonder why anyone, after the experience of the past year, would expect there to be anything specific that would tell us when the pandemic had ended.
Earlier this morning, while running errands, I listened to a doctor redefine success as making COVID less fatal than the flu.
Uncle Cosmo
I’d’ve preferred “Tucks.” I’d like to have that pathetic fucker’s reputation staplegunned to something people with hemorrhoids stick up their ass.
germy
Kay
@Wyatt Salamanca:
The high school principal here told us last night at a school event that it’s been more and more difficult to get the kids to wear masks because they see everyone else taking them off. He told us this standing outside at the entrance to the school, wearing a mask. He wears it all the time because he doesn’t want to give them the message that it’s all clear. Most of the students aren’t vaccinated- the vast majority.
germy
Uncle Cosmo
@A Streeter: Genny 12-Horse Ale was pretty decent brew when I was (all too briefly) resident in the Finger Lakes district. Of course the glaciers have come and gone a couple times since…
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
I don’t think that’s it. Rather, I think they’re reflecting a very common mood. Many, many people are desperate for things to go back to normal, and they’re hoping there’s a magic point when it will happen. They want someone to say that when we get to a specific level of vaccination or positive test results, that will mean the pandemic is officially over and we can go back to normal. They’re asking the question that way because that’s the answer they want to hear, and they’ll keep asking that question until they get the answer they want.
The Lodger
@barbequebob: Syracuse Genny was a lot better than Rochester Genny, probably because the brewery wasn’t downstream from Eastman Kodak.
smith
@Another Scott: Israel is the only country so far to have vaccinated its way out of the pandemic. Out of curiosity, on the day they decided they’d reached the point where restrictions could be lifted, I looked to see what their rate of new infections was. It was about 2 per 100k. Applying that metric to the US population, we’d have to be below 7000 new cases a day to be at a comparable point. We’re currently averaging about 42,000 new cases a day, or 6 times that rate.
Of course, Israel and the US are very different countries. I’d guess we have a somewhat higher rate of defiant Yahoos who still can’t wrap their heads around the fact that covid is a deadly disease, so even when/if we reach that level it may not be enough to suppress future surges.
Another Scott
@Roger Moore: Maybe you’re right.
But the press isn’t a bystander in this “mood of the country” thing. They’re pushing a viewpoint as much as they’re “just asking questions”.
Q – “CDC says that vaccinated people don’t need to wear mask, especially outdoors. Why are you still wearing a mask outdoors? Don’t you trust the CDC, or are you stupid??”
A – “Well, in an ideal world we wouldn’t be in this situation because people would understand how the virus is transmitted and would do what was necessary to fight community spread. In an ideal world, people would understand and act on the recommendations and we could trust people to get vaccinated and not risk spreading it to others. But since we live in a world (partially created by you folks in the press) where even putting a piece of cloth on one’s face is a Second Holocaust, it’s clear that we cannot rely on people just being sensible. So we have to make the message simple and consistent. Everyone should wear a mask (because most of the spread is from asymptomatic people), everyone who is able should get vaccinated (but not everyone can yet – especially children and the economically disadvantaged), and do all the other things that have been shown to reduce community spread. Once community spread is gone – once we flatten the curve (remember that?) – then we can talk about what “normal” looks like going forward. We can do testing and tracing and the normal public health activities to control outbreaks. We’re not there yet… (Etc.)”
They can’t use that second answer, but that’s what we’re dealing with, I think.
I don’t envy the public health officials who are trying to do their best.
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Roger Moore:
On the other hand, having a magic “point” does nothing to change attitudes or behavior. Here, Gov. DeWine has said he will lift all restrictions when there’s a new case rate of 50 per 100,000 for two weeks in a row. It’s been more than a month, and I think the new-case number has barely budged from 150 down to 148.
Another Scott
@smith: I suspect, as I said above in #107, that US public health officials are going to want to keep restrictions in place until community spread is low enough to actually do rapid testing and contact tracing. The US spread is still far too high for that.
Over 4500 dead already in the USA in May from COVID..
I’m not optimistic that we’ll get there, especially since too many RWNJ politicians are already in Leeroy Jenkins mode.
But we know that traditional public heath methods work.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@SFAW: You missed Cole shaving the cat’s ass?
You are in for a treat when we re-post some of the classic BJ posts at our 20th anniversary next January.
And I’ll use this occasion to hare a reminder:
So far, all we have are links to the lost mustard and Jesus on a dog’s butt threads.
JoyceH
@Fair Economist:
I’ve been saying this too – but better than evening news would be social media, You Tube and Instagram, something easily sharable on the same channels that are full of the conspiracy theories. Best candidate would be a young guy whose previous content had been videos of his workouts. The older videos could contrast with his current state, seated and wasted away or overweight, with his oxygen assistance. Click link something like, “I said I was too healthy to worry about COVID – you won’t believe what happened next!”
Eventually, the campaign would hit the evening news for the older deniers – “Joe Schmoe’s COVID message is going viral on social media, his latest video has been shared over a million times…” and a network familiar face interviewing Joe.
Amir Khalid
Free beer for getting vaccinated doesn’t really work for me. And I have no idea what might work.
burnspbesq
@dr. bloor:
Genny Cream, no doubt about it. That shit was so foul, in undergrad we drank Labatt Blue instead.
Roger Moore
@Another Scott:
My point was slightly different. It’s not that the media are a bystander in the mood of the country or that they’re pushing a viewpoint. It’s that they are part of the country, and they are asking those questions because their personal mood reflects the way many people feel. They personally are desperate to hear that the pandemic will be over soon and they can go back to doing things the way they did before.
It’s an example of the way the pretense of journalistic objectivity is impossible. Journalists want to pretend they’re just asking the important questions the public wants answered, but they can’t remain aloof. We’re all participants in the pandemic whether we like it or not, and reporters simply can’t set aside their personal views no matter how much they would like to. They’re not just asking questions; they’re pleading for an answer they’re personally desperate to hear.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Amir Khalid: Free guitars ;)
JoyceH
On the topic of ‘why are you still masked if you’re vaccinated’, I feel the urge to post here a rant I posted on Facebook on April 21:
“Bear with me, guys, because I feel a rant coming on. I keep seeing on television and online people wondering/griping about why the fully vaccinated still need to wear masks. And our public health officials are too dang polite to give the real reason. So I will.
Those of us who don’t need to wear masks still ought to because those who ought to won’t.
Let me explain. Say you’re someone who isn’t vaccinated. Maybe you have some medical condition that precludes it or maybe you just haven’t had your turn yet. So you’re not vaccinated – and someone is coming into your workplace unmasked. Now, in the Land of Sensible People, you might be able to assume that person was fully vaccinated. But we don’t live in the Land of Sensible People, so while it might be that the person is vaccinated, they might also be a rabid anti-vaxxer anti-masker just back from Superspreaderpalooza 2021 even more convinced that Mah Freedum is more valid and important than their civic obligation to not kill people.
So until COVID spread is finally beaten back and people are no longer getting infected, we wear masks so that those people still vulnerable to infection will be able to discern how to deal with barefaced people – and SHUN THEM.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.”
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@WaterGirl: Somewhere out there is a small section of a thread (2015ish?) where I explain my nym (after delurking for the first time).
“Disgruntled former Baud supporter” raised some questions from the jackel-tariat. Important Juicer history.
Another Scott
@JoyceH: There are a few YouTube / news reports like that, but I agree that they’re not what one sees very often.
e.g. ultramarathoner who caught it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2KVA9RUmH0 (4:29)
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Nelle:
Or didn’t.
smith
I just recalled that a few days ago the CDC did make a prediction about when things might start looking “normal” — by July, provided of course, that people get vaccinated and continue to mask. So what are these press people whining about? My guess is that they don’t want to hear the caveats. They’re looking for permission to take those masks off NOW.
Zelma
There are still barriers to vaccination. I have a friend with serious mobility issues. She really wants the shot. She has called the state hotline, the county and her health insurer to get help. Nobody had any answers for her. If there were drive-thrus, she could probably get there if she could get someone to drive her. But there are none in her area. She’s mostly housebound. She thinks she may have found someone who will come to her house to inoculate her. I’m sure her situation is not unique.
Another Scott
In other news, …
Looks fun, and maybe it would actually be useful in a few cases, and research on this stuff is great, but it looks like a boondoggle in waiting if they actually plan on deploying it at scale.
[eta:] OTOH, unmanned versions are coming and will be increasingly important.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
Coming late to the thread, but I presume that people have been pointing out that we are trying to defeat the virus, not score political points. We need to get as many people vaccinated as possible.
Health officials have known that this would be an issue since the very beginning. The housebound, including seniors and people with vulnerabilities, should have been on somebody’s high priority list.
I hope that your friend is able to get vaccinated soon.
terry chay
No, what we should be doing is making it so you can’t do things unless you are vaccinated: eat out, go to a bar, concert, board a plane, bus, or train, enroll in school, etc.
We shouldn’t be convincing people. We should be making it a requirement to function in our society, because that’s what public health is.
Mudbrush
@dr. bloor: For some reason I always thought it was Jenny Creme Ale. But this post made me look it up. Gennesee Creme Ale. Of course. I’m so dumb! Like in Ohio where we had Little Kings Creme Ale. Same green bottles and green label theme. What’s with the green? Is Creme Ale Irish? So much I don’t know!
Felanius Kootea
@Puddinhead: Mmm…rust!
On a more serious note, I agree with others that strategies like having mobile vaccination units go to places where people might be interested but can’t take a lot of time off of work would produce better results than trying to convince the die-hard COVID-vaccine haters.
Citizen Alan
@Amir Khalid: Sanity?
Ksmiami
@Another Scott: Great – you do realize that once there are robot soldiers walking down the street it’s too late…
Mudbrush
My brother won’t get vaccinated because he says “I probably already had covid.” And he helps me take care of our 83 year old mom. Grrrrrrr!
mrmoshpotato
@narya:
Mmmmmm
Ruckus
@Uncle Jeffy:
His assholyness is so overpowering that no vaccine is going to ever be effective in it’s control. He is an asshole deluxe, which is one reason that he’s paid to work there. Likely the primary reason.
mrmoshpotato
@Ksmiami:
ED-209!
Nobody in particular
@JoyceH:
It’s difficult to explain epidemiology and immunology to people who think “Public Health” is socialized medicine. A vaccination only wakes up one’s immune system and gives them a scent of their quarry. The virus. You are not immune and neither is anyone else. Immunity is conferred by your immune system as a result of contracting and fighting a virus. The body can do this.
I am immune to Type A and C Hep. Not B, which even my doctor was surprised at. I’ve been exposed, come down with, and fought off all 3 with the help of an immune system conferred on me by genetics. Tuberculosis also, but I was young then. I’m almost a germophobe now, as my Birthday Mate Trump is.
WEAR YOUR MASK! FROM NOW ON. Viruses are never going to go away, until we can manage that.
During the AIDS crisis, they were far more “pro-active” But we had not yet completely dismantled all the administrative government and laws that do this kind of thing. Bannon and Trump and their minions have done this, as they said they would. BTW, I complimented you on your take on Franklin’s expectations of the success of this grand experiment.
This has been a public service announcment.
Another Scott
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@Cermet:
Too quick and easy.
He needs something slower and not as quick to work, like bamboo shoots under the fingernails while strung up by his wrists and ankles. Maybe on a cross – no he’d like that….
We need a project to design the perfect answer about what he really, really needs to adjust his volume to zero. But in any case, I’d say slow and personally informative to him about how things can always get worse.
Soprano2
@terry chay: This is somewhat unrealistic in states like MO, where there was never a statewide mask mandate. Being vaccinated will never be a requirement here to go to a bar or restaurant. It’s more likely they’ll make it illegal to require vaccination for anything. I agree that we need to do everything we can to make it easy and convenient for people to get the shot. I know it’s hard to believe, but not everyone has been counting the hours until they can get the shot.
As for journalists asking “When will we know it’s over?”, that’s what most people want to know, so I don’t fault them for asking it. OTOH, anyone who thought we could get rid of Covid hasn’t been paying attention since last April. I knew pretty quickly that we were going to have to figure out how to live with it in the world, because it spread too far too fast to do anything else.
Nelle
Ruckus
@Nelle:
I’m wondering if it’s erectile dysfunction if it’s come up………
Sorry not sorry. Damn it feels good to be 12 again. Never thought I’d feel that 60 yrs later.
JoyceH
Public health history flashback. Typhoid Mary was given several chances to lead a normal life, but when she proved unwilling to stop taking jobs in food preparation (because the pay was higher than other jobs she could get) she was placed in confinement – for the rest of her life.
Ken
We figured out cholera over a hundred fifty years ago, and we’re still not back to normal. People have to have expensive plumbing installed in their houses, and no one’s free to crap in the streets any more.
We figured out typhus over a hundred years ago, and we’re still not back to normal. People have to bathe at least once a week and wash their bedding regularly, and no one’s free to be infested with lice any more.
Another Scott
@Nelle: That’s horrible and infuriating. Maybe make a public stink on Twitter? Companies supposedly pay attention to Twitter when their company is in a hashtag, since it’s so easy for reporters to see…
Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@Another Scott:
It also explains his matter-of-fact statement that people going to Mars would likely die.
Nobody in particular
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I think we can split the difference and both be right. It was a “lie” for Jarvis and Gann to claim this would solve the issue of taxation and the price of housing in CA. At that time we had the best public schools in the nation. A source of national pride.
As I said, your instincts were spot on about the loopholes. The net result has been an embarrassing failure.
I thought you might be an attorney – and those are beautiful photographs.
Nobody in particular
@JoyceH:
Yes. But she was given chance to stop harming the public at large. John Stuart Mill’s Harm Principle. Liberalism and even socialism at their best. As I’ve said if I were Mr. President, I’d have already suspended habeas. Not so much for Mary, but for the insurrectionists.
JPL
@WaterGirl: I found another post about Tunch, but this time John is wishing he were a darker color.. 2008 Balloon Juice | Once Again, My Chief Flaw Is Insufficient Cynicism (balloon-juice.com)
It’s amazing how many of the commenters are still around.
Uncle Cosmo
@debbie: Go look up the number of people who died in the early years of manned flight – and the number of extremely skilled test pilots who died while pushing the limits of aircraft that were designed and built to the best of contemporary ability – and note that Spacex has yet to risk a single life in a spacecraft that hasn’t been exhaustively tested to earn a manned-flight rating – and get back to us, hm?
germy
mrmoshpotato
Canadian cobra chickens
The grown ugly ducklings seem to be asses too.
Nobody in particular
@Ken:
Estimates of the global population and no jet travel at the time. Around 1 billion.
Coming over on a boat you could expire before the ship hit port.
It’s a much smaller world. Anti-globalists are Flat Earthers.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Nobody in particular: I am not an attorney, I’m an Economist by academic training and was a computer geek professionally(I did computer support for attorneys). Thank you for your kind words about my photos.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Whenever I hear a question like this, my first reaction is “who is asking the question.” And you typically find that it is not coming from everyone in the press, but the right wing media who grasp at ways to oppose masks and other reasonable precautions. The anti-maskers initially accused the CDC of being dishonest and grasped at the recommendations of quacks, but now they spit back “Don’t you believe the science?” in order to push their bullshit.
I don’t think this is quite fair. While the press has covered anti-maskers, for the most part they have been fair in presenting the recommendations of health officials. And they have been pretty consistent about this, even when Trump was in power and pushing lies, confusion and anti-science nonsense.
And accurate. You and Roger have made some great points. There is good press; those trying to be honest and consistent. There is media reporting from journalists just as desperate to get back to “normal” as the average citizen. And there is bad faith reporting from the usual suspects among the right wing mischief makers.
Cheryl Rofer
@Nobody in particular:
You are quite wrong. The mRNA vaccines offer at least as much protection as suffering covid does. Here’s one reference from January. I’ve seen later reports that the vaccines are better.
Immunity means that your immune system is primed against a disease agent. That can come from a vaccine or natural illness. And the vaccine is much, much less likely to kill you.
You might check your claims before you issue a public service announcement.
germy
@Cheryl Rofer:
I’m hoping mRNA vaccine technology is eventually used against other diseases, like cancer.
Ohio Mom
Another Scott @134:
I usually like what Sara Luterman has to say but in this case, the only acceptable reaction to Elon Musk’s claim he is autistic is, “Uh huh, Show me the diagnosis letter (from an appropriate medical specialist).”
I remember when Jerry Seinfeld announced he was autistic, then recanted a few days later. What is it about autism that people think it’s a chic diagnosis?
Maybe Musk is on the spectrum. It’s fine to identify concerning symptoms in yourself, but then you need to go to a doctor and get your suspicions either confirmed or refuted, for any condition.
Even doctors don’t formerly diagnose themselves. That’s not how medicine works and autism is a medical condition, as described in the DSM. The social model of disability doesn’t mean it’s a free-for-all.
Sign me,
Irritated Autism Mom
Cheryl Rofer
@germy: mRNA technology is one of the most exciting medical advances of the last 50 years, maybe the last century.
Brachiator
@Nobody in particular:
Great analogy.
opiejeanne
@SFAW: You misunderstand. She got her second dose, but uses the “feeling crappy” bit as an excuse to get out of things she doesn’t want to do.
Another Scott
There’s cheating in high-stakes horse racing? Unpossible.
NPR – Kentucky Derby winner fails drug test.
Cheers,
Scott.
Patricia Kayden
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: Next, you’re going to tell me there’s cheating in cycling.
JoyceH
@Ohio Mom: Musk said he had Aspergers. Is that a subset of autism or something else?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Don’t forget baseball. Or American football. Or basketball. Or the Olympics. I think you get the point ; )
Nobody in particular
@Cheryl Rofer:
Protection is not immunity. You and I might understand the distinction but not the average libertarian.
I think this is precisely what I said. If you think this is bad, I recall years ago when Ron Paul, a doctor allegedly, was running for idiot in chief again. His libertarian bent caused him to say all drugs should be accessible without prescription. I can dig up the links, but the point, for a doctor to suggest that people who don’t know the difference between a virus, like the common cold, and a bacteriological infection should treat themselves with antibiotics for a cold– well that’s how you create Superbugs resistant to antibiotics. We might already all be dead. Antivirals are something else entirely.
Look, I’m no expert, but I know them. One was my uncle, now passed. He taught and mentored Tony Fauci, Exec Faculty and Chair of his dept at Cornell. They were lifelong friends from the time Tony graduated until my uncle’s passing. I’m not dropping my uncle’s name. I’ve dropped Fauci’s but anyone curious enough can see if they can find out who was the first Medical Director of the NFL under Pete Roselle.
Typhoid Mary was immune to Salmonella. No drug did that.
WaterGirl
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: The earliest comment I find for you with this nym is 2017, and there is no mention of Baud. Sorry!
WhatsMyNym
@Ken:
Wait, What!?
WaterGirl
@JPL: Thank you! I added that to (still very small) the collection.
Fair Economist
@JoyceH:
Clever!
I think part of out political problem is that the other side pays people to come up with ideas like this. They use “plant and exploit” even for false ideas. We don’t even do them for true ones.
Cheryl Rofer
@Nobody in particular: You certainly are no expert, but you do fuzz up an argument. Lots of red herrings there. Sure you’re not a fisherman?
You have a very strange definition of immunity. Want to back it up with a reference?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@WaterGirl:
Since this is a dying thread, I figure I might as well say this:
I’m sorry for being so negative yesterday and thank you (and others!) for being so patient.
This bit from that thread last night has put my stomach into knots since:
I have never set out to do any of that. It’s not a schtick. I was really upset and depressed last night.. I’m deeply sorry for being, frankly, an annoying asshole. Believe it or not this place and the folks that frequent it mean a lot to me. I don’t know what I’d do without it. I’ve got to change
satby
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Well, IF IT’s not a shtick you’re really good at it. Weird how people have to keep bring up how you derail threads though, isn’t it. *finis
Ruckus
@germy:
Remember that cancer is not a disease like a virus. It is the cells mutating by internal fault or an external influence. Only approximately 15% of cancers are from infections and those infections cause cell genetics mutations, like every other cancer.
That said I’d bet that some maybe all cancers can be fought by mRNA vaccines because mNRA vaccines tell the immune system what to look for and to block. We may need to learn to read genetic material to create specific vaccines for individual people. And notice that while the Covid virus is mutating the mNRA vaccines seem to be able to reasonably support the fight against the variants.
My bet is that mNRA vaccines are an absolute major step in public health going forward.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@satby:
It’s because I’m an oblivious idiot that let’s his emotions get the better of him
Nobody in particular
@Brachiator:
Thanks Brachiator!
And Cheryl, no offense on either side I hope. What people forget is that what the virus does to a person not vaccinated is create a “storm” of immunosuppression that harms the patient as much as the virus does. This is why, to my mind, vaccination is key, but it only lessens the infection, the storm, on both sides: Your immune system and the viral load. But to say it confers “immunity” contravenes good public health protocol. You don’t want people to get the impression they are indestructible. It isn’t accurate and it isn’t full-blown immunity. Think on your experiences with the regular old flu vaccinations.
Cheryl Rofer
@Nobody in particular: Give me a link to a definition that supports what you are saying.
Nobody in particular
@Ruckus:
Good point, to a point. Human Papillomavirus has some connection to the development of cancer later on. We really aren’t there yet, but soon. This is a nut we can crack.
Quantum Entanglement? Maybe not.
Ruckus
@Another Scott:
They aren’t looking for gotcha?
What other explanation is more plausible?
Matt McIrvin
@dmsilev: When I argue in public fora, I’m not at all trying to convince antivaxxers that they’re wrong. I’m trying to keep undecided low-info bystanders from being convinced by them.
Ruckus
@JMG:
There seems to be a range of symptoms. From almost zero to 2-3 days not doing anything and quite possibly a 12-24 hr period of “Holy Shit, This Is The Worst I’ve Ever Felt. Which then goes away and that’s that. I’m betting that it is our immune system’s response. Some people don’t seem to be bothered by a Covid infection much at all and others have massively negative reactions. I think it might be that if we have a strong reaction to the vaccine we would have quite possibly died from infection, because we had no signals telling us to fight this – it’s an invader. I’d bet your lack of reaction is because your immune system at least recognized this virus as an invader and may have protected you from the disease or at least mitigated the response. I also could be entirely wrong or be 100% backasswards.
Matt McIrvin
@JMG: I haven’t had my second dose of COVID vaccine yet. The first dose (Moderna) gave me a mild headache and a mildly sore arm the next day.
But my second dose of shingles vaccine had me all logy and achy for the first half of the next day, and a sore arm for about 3 or 4 days afterward.
These things vary a lot. There’s an interesting side effect with the Moderna where in some people, the aching arm comes back after about 8 days. But that didn’t happen to me.
Nobody in particular
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
You’re welcome.
Cheryl, I think I see the problem here. When reading the literature from CDC and such, you get this:
Left unsaid here is that the immunity achieved is eventual herd immunity by denying the virus to find a host and begin to replicate. I’ve had Flu shots and came down with the Flu. The year they cooked up the wrong batch I almost died. Look, for ten years my doctor and I went back forth about Hep C. Simple tests just look for the antibodies which indicate you were exposed. She was convinced I had it. I kept telling her I was exposed to A as a child and my father gave me a Gammaglobulin shot. Maybe that really juiced up my immune system. But if a flu vaccination allows you to have a mild case that doesn’t kill you, that’s not immunity as I understand the definition. It’s prophylaxis. Herd Immunity, which they are now saying we may never achieve, is reached when we deny the virus an environment to replicate in. Usually some lifeform.
We’ll be taking these booster shots for some time.
Nobody in particular
@JoyceH:
It’s the autism spectrum now. That’s it because autism is mostly misunderstood. You won’t find drug abuse in the DSMV because it is now a substance use disorder. SUDS. Now about that free beer.
Ohio Mom
Joyce H:
Once upon a time, psychiatry ruled that Asperger’s and autism were separate but related conditions. And then, a few years ago, the field changed its mind and folded Asperger’s into the Autism category.
The old categories said that children with Asperger’s did not have a language delay (as toddlers, they spoke on time) and that they had at least average, but more likely, high IQs.
Children with autism, in contrast, spoke late or not at all. But what about “late talkers” who were later found to have high IQs?
The borders between the two conditions were always indistinct. They shared many more characteristics than not: impaired social skills, repetitive behaviors, inflexibility, narrow and intense areas of interest, etc.
Whether they were two separate but related conditions, or variations of the same condition, was hotly debated for years.
People who identified as Aspies did not want to give that label up. Parents who choked on the label of autism were more comfortable saying their child had Asperger’s (since it seemed to connote “genius”).
But the DSM-5 (the so-called “bible of pyschiatry”) ended the argument when they replaced Asperger’s and Autistic Disorder
with one inclusive diagnosis, Autism Spectrum Disorder.
But who knows, maybe years from now a whole different set of labels will be developed.
JoyceH
@Ohio Mom: Okay, I knew there was a ‘spectrum’ now, but didn’t know Asperger’s was part of that.
BTW, if I get irked when people pop up on online discussion groups wanting to debate if some historical, or worse, fictional character was ‘on the spectrum’, does that make me a bigot? Seems like a character can’t be shy or awkward or studious or in some way quirky without that topic surfacing. (Come on, Mister DARCY? Well, that depends on if ‘stuck up’ is on the spectrum!)
karen marie
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Thank you.
J R in WV
@Nobody in particular:
First, you don’t ID your source for the quote about vaccines and how they work in a patient’s body.
Then you insert your own thoughts about something that was NOT in the definition you quote, which in my book is not part of how vaccines work in a patient. Herd immunity has nothing to do with how vaccines work in a patient, which is what your quote from nowhere is addressing.
We don’t know much about “herd immunity” but we do know that humanity never developed herd immunity to smallpox, cholera, polio, TB, or any of the many other plagues that afflict humans. I don’t think we should be looking forward to any “herd immunity” to save us from SARS-covid-2 or Covid-19, however you want to denominate the current plague.
I prefer to call it the Trumpian Plague for the work he did to make sure it became endemic in North America. But that’s just me! His lies and continuing rejection of statements and advice from medical and related experts has killed and continues to kill people all over the world.
In a just society TFG would be in jail for mass murder. They really thought they were going to kill off Democrats in Blue States, instead wind up killing far more RWNJs in rural Red States. Great Job,
BrownieJared~!!~karen marie
@narya: You mean, VAERS? The site where anyone can report anything about anything so that people like Tucker Carlson can weaponize it to spread disinformation? Pffft.
Ruckus
@sdhays:
Even a huge asshole can be full of shit.
Actually a huge asshole is almost always full of shit.
You can tell because they are a huge asshole and whenever they open their mouths, shit comes out. They might just be a huge asshole because they are full of shit…..
SFAW
@opiejeanne:
I understood just fine. My “floss my cat” line is another way of semi-politely declining an invitation, using a bullshit/bogus excuse.
Ken
That seems to be the way some people (and if you want to circle back to Elon Musk, I won’t disagree) use it. “See, I’m on the spectrum, that’s why I’m an asshole.”
Ohio Mom
Joyce H:
One of the issues with diagnosing Autism has always been it’s something of a garbage can of a diagnosis — Don’t know what to make of it? It must be autism.
At one point, Rhett Syndrome was considered to be under the autism umbrella — then its genetic cause was found and poof! It wasn’t included with autism anymore. Because Rhett was obviously something else, even with the lack of language and repetitive hand movements people with it have.
Diagnosing historical figures can be a fun game for some but the truth is, we can never really know about (historical or fictional name here), past saying they appear neurodivergent to some degree, in some way.
Some parents like to have role models for their kids — to be able to say to them, Just because you have autism…but look at Einstein! I don’t see how that is useful, almost none of us are going to be anything like Einstein.
People with autism are people. They each have their own personality. Whether or not Musk is autistic, it’s pretty clear he is a jerk. That’s something else, not autism.
As for Mr. Darcy, seems to me that calling him autistic shuts down any further conversation if no one is going to consider any of his other traits or his circumstances. And Isn’t the point of discussing fiction, considering different viewpoints and possibilities, and reveling in the mysterious grey areas that will never be defined?