I’m seeing reports that there’s a verdict in the Chauvin murder trial:
Verdict will be read between 3:30-4 pm CST #DerekChauvinTrial
— Jamie Yuccas (@jamieyuccas) April 20, 2021
It’s probably a good sign that the verdict was reached so quickly — is that correct, lawyers?
Open thread.
The Thin Black Duke
Do The Right Thing, America.
Soprano2
Yep, just got this notice on my phone. I think it’s a good thing it wasn’t drawn out for days and days. Let’s hope for justice.
Cheryl Rofer
mali muso
Ugh, I feel so nervous. Please let them do the right thing.
Larch
All Hennepin County courthouse workers told to leave downtown immediately. That doesn’t sound good, but it could be a pre-planned decision in the case of _any_ verdict.
la caterina
Great news that it’s not a hung jury. Hoping for a guilty on the top count.
Soprano2
@Larch: I’m sure it was, at this point no one knows the verdict but the jury.
NotMax
As there are multiple charges, am expecting a split as to determination of guilt in each of them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Larch: IANAL but I can’t imagine a unanimous vote to acquit, and I think it’s too soon for a hung jury. I think judges can/will refuse to accept a hung jury?
DMac
Fast verdict just means (in general) that it was easy for the jury to reach a verdict.
It seems impossible that the entire jury could sit through all that evidence and reach anything OTHER than a GUILTY verdict but….you never know. We’ll know soon. Hoping and praying for justice for George Floyd.
germy
Constitooshonal lawyer (traffic court Barbie) didn’t like Biden’s comments.
Wapiti
@Larch: It’s not bad as a pre-planned decision. If the verdict causes rioting, you want your people out of there. If the verdict causes a street party, you might as well let your people go home a whole hour early. Before the cops riot.
MisterForkbeard
It’s not a hung jury, which is great.
Did anyone see that Kayleigh McEnany let the words “I don’t believe a President should inflame situations” fly out of her pie hole? What a horrible, awful person. She’s getting roundly roasted for it, but she attacked Biden because he waited to comment until after the Jury Sequestration started so he wouldn’t affect the case, and all he said was “I think the evidence is overwhelming and I hope the right verdict is reached.”
Oh noes :)
Cheryl Rofer
@Larch: There are white supremacists in town who are likely to riot on a guilty verdict. So danger either way.
Elizabelle
That was fast. I am guessing it’s a guilty verdict, on some count, at the minimum.
Do the right thing, jurors.
I thought the prosecutor’s closing statement, about all the witnesses to Mr. Floyd’s death, who could do nothing, but the jury can — was very effective.
Gravenstone
@germy: Yet I’m sure she was entirely fine with every one of the multiple instances of TFG publicly pronouncing his views of various trials across the nation. Hypocrisy much?
MisterForkbeard
@germy: Jenna Ellis can go fuck herself. Biden waited until after jury sequestration had started, so it has provably no effect on the trial. Keep in mind this is also vastly less than anything Trump ever did.
But I think we can see where this is going. They’re going to pretend Biden and Maxine Waters did something unforgivable and ruined the justice system and it’ll become another shibboleth on the right for the next decade. “Joe Biden intervened to put innocent cops in prison”
NotMax
BTW,
Elizabelle
@MisterForkbeard: Who gives a fuck what Jenna Ellis or any of those morons say? Truly?
Save your energy for more important things. They are just there to provoke. Ignore their asses.
Cheryl Rofer
The Dangerman
Sigh. Not to piss in the cereal bowl but quick verdict means diddly shit.
/OJ
Betty Cracker
On CNN, the anchor said the jury hadn’t forwarded a single note to the judge.
PST
Obviously no hung jury, which is realistically what Chauvin wanted. And an acquittal seems out of the question. So what we are waiting for is the degree of culpability. I honestly believe that it will be one of the murder charges. The evidence was too overwhelming to have every juror reject them both so quickly.
Another Scott
FWIW.
As I said downstairs, I assume that most of the deliberation time was deciding what charge to convict him of, not whether he would be convicted. I, obviously, have no evidence one way or the other though.
Cheers,
Scott.
PST
@NotMax: I thought Chauvin waived the right for a jury determination of aggravating factors, so that will be up to the judge. I could be wrong.
Benw
Hope they find him guilty AF. Thinking of everyone in the in the Minn/St Paul area.
Another Scott
@The Dangerman: We remember.
But there are many, many differences and things do change.
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
@MisterForkbeard:
She should demand a refund from Harvard. That degree did not work for her.
JML
My gut says that fast verdict in this case means he’s guilty, probably of the top count in the indictment. If they were figuring out 3rd degree murder my guess is it might have taken longer, and I have trouble seeing a unanimous “not guilty”. The defense’s best hope has always been the hang the jury, IMHO.
But you never know. Juries can be weird.
MomSense
I’m soooo nervous. Please convict that motherfucker.
Mary G
So half an hour to an hour and a half from now, plus or minus 5 minutes?
Amir Khalid
@Larch:
I understand that the city is expecting unrest whichever way the verdict goes, and is planning accordingly. That seems only prudent.
trollhattan
@MisterForkbeard:
The Texas Rangers scouts were outside banging Biden’s comments on garbage cans that could easily be heard inside the building.
dmsilev
@trollhattan: Harvard likes money even more than the T**** family does. No refunds.
hueyplong
Has the jury asked any questions? If not, it would be weird to acquit so quickly.
(I have worked not to pay close attention.)
IndyCat32
@PST: you are correct.
HalfAssedHomesteader
Live stream at WaPo (pending ATM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm48swwALnc
Lavocat
Oh yeah. Quick turn-around-times on verdicts are almost always good for the prosecution. Of course, it’s not written in stone and it ain’t over til it’s over.
Fingers crossed!
germy
BruceFromOhio
When your colleagues in blue testify AGAINST you, your story ends in a jail cell.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: 27 minutes from now. It’s 3:03 central time where I live.
Dan B
@JML: With so many POC on the jury a rapid unanimous decision would most likely be guilty. Hard to imagine what these jurors would face family and friends if they ruled innocent.
Could be wrong as my “expert” knowledge of Lithium battery fires proved. I remain hopeful and awaiting lunch. It will not be a lawyer lunch since I’m not.
Amir Khalid
@dmsilev:
Harvard can afford to give refunds, surely. I heard its endowment makes it the wealthiest university on the planet. That said, it shouldn’t be blamed for graduates who willfully misuse or abuse what they learned there.
Miki
@NotMax: I don’t think this is correct – Chauvin waived his right to have the jury make findings, and agreed to let the judge do it.
MisterForkbeard
@Benw: There are times when “Guilty AF” needs to be an official verdict. This is one of those times.
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Truth.
Baud
@JML: Agree with all of that. We’ll see.
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: Nah, she’s parlayed it into plenty of success. She’s just a giant liar and all-around terrible human being.
Harvard should be demanding an apology from her at the same time it apologizes for letting her past whatever filters they had for “gaslighting nazi”.
WaterGirl
Soprano2
@trollhattan: Wrong Texas team. You’re thinking of the Astros.
Anonymous At Work
Not a PRACTICING attorney but…
Quick verdict = unanimous jury = guilty verdict on most serious count.
trollhattan
@Soprano2:
Potato, potexo. :-)
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: I’d probably go with the 2nd-degree murder charge myself. He accidentally killed Floyd through negligence while assaulting him.
I could see a Jury going with third-degree or manslaughter, though.
Raven
There is no kind of planning other than pre-planning.
CaseyL
Oh, jeez. I wished they only announced that they’d reached a verdict when they were ready to actually give it, but I do understand why extra precautions have to be taken.
After what we’ve learned about the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters infiltrating law enforcement at every level, though, even a guilty verdict will not obviate the urgent need to scour police forces of white supremacists.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: Agree, based on my limited knowledge ignoring the trial as much as possible because of fear of a bad result.
featheredsprite
@Amir Khalid: Yes. The State of Minnesota issued a statement yesterday [I think] asking everyone in the Twin Cities area to stay inside.
HalfAssedHomesteader
@NotMax: Hopefully this will allow the prosecution to admit his history of choking people.
Barbara
@Dan B: I looked at a description of the individual jurors and I tend to agree, but I must also tell you that a marquis defense attorney told me (with respect to the O.J. Simpson jury) that a super fast verdict over serious charges was more likely to be acquittal, because juries feel constrained to be thorough when they are imposing guilt for serious charges. Simpson jury was only out for 90 minutes. He told me what to expect and he was right.
Roger Moore
@Larch:
AFAIK, the first time anyone outside the jury knows the verdict is when they return to court. They don’t do the reading of the verdict for drama; it’s really when everyone in the room learns the outcome.
Thaddeu
I am at a loss to understand why a guilty verdict would do anything. A not guilty verdict would be the better one.
The whole system of policing — unbridled use of power , qualified immunity, pretext traffic stops, “reasonable use” of deadly force etc — must collapse on it’s own, by the exposing the rottenness of the a system which allows actions like Chauvin’s, to be perfectly legal , justified and reasonable.
The police system and justice system should not escape by passing the buck to Chauvin. Then it continues to survive and thrive to kill and destroy many more .. “See, it was just one rotten apple”
The barrel itself is rotten; not just the apples, and not just a few of the apples. Picking one bad apple out does nothing.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: Same. Even a good result isn’t exactly heartwarming.
The best result we get is that a cop can murder someone in broad daylight, cause enormous amounts of unrest, get defended by a major political party because he killed a black guy, and then with all that publicity, documentation and evidence we got a guilty verdict for this one cop and maybe his colleagues who watched him do it without complaint.
geg6
@NotMax:
I was watching yesterday when he waived that and requested that the judge determine guilt on aggravating factors.
Lyrebird
@Another Scott: Glad to know he’s back in tweeting action.
Do the right thing, jury!
Hard to hope, but on DKos I saw that even Pat Robertson, yes THAT Pat Robertson, sees that Chauvin did wrong.
Elizabelle
Wonderful story to read in the meantime. The home site Harriet Tubman lived in during her formative teen years, on the Eastern Shore of Maryland near Cambridge, has been found. Cabin of her father, Ben Ross, no longer stands, but they are finding plenty of artifacts.
Will have to read up on Harriett Tubman. She chose the name “Harriet” for herself. And later rescued two siblings and her parents. Will have to think of Ben Ross on Father’s Day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2021/04/20/harriet-tubman-maryland-home-found/
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
To the contrary, it did exactly what a Harvard degree was supposed to do for her: it got her into the club. Any actual education was strictly secondary.
Raven
@Barbara: This fellow has argued before the supremes
Gravenstone
@Thaddeu: Heighten those contradictions much more, and there will be widespread bloodshed. So let’s just convict the fucker and then continue the work of reforming an admittedly broken system in a more methodical and controlled manner, shall we?
Larch
Geographical context for whatever comes next: the Hennepin County courthouse is 32 blocks NORTH (sorry) & 3-4 blocks west of where George Floyd was killed. Totally walkable in a pretty direct route. The site of the former 3rd precinct police station (out of which Chauvin & co. worked and which was burned during the riots last year) is about 25 blocks south of the courthouse but about 15 or so blocks east, across some gnarly highways.
South Minneapolis is laid out on a pretty rigid grid, with downtown (also a rigid grid) at about a 45 degree angle from the neighborhood streets. The courthouse is the block bounded by 3rd-4th Sts & 5th-6th Aves downtown. Floyd was killed at 38th & Chicago Ave (Chicago = 8th avenue). The former 3rd precinct was at Lake St (Lake = 30th street) and 21st Ave.
Hope that helps
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: Thanks. I was wondering about the difference between second-degree unintentional murder and second-degree manslaughter. Seems like an odd way to break it down, but IMO, Chauvin committed all three of those crimes.
Suzanne
Ugh. I feel sick.
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
I can see them going with the maximum charge, rather easily.
This is known to be a deadly hold. He knew the man he was applying that knee to. He stayed there long after George went limp, seemingly as insurance that he got the result he wanted.
geg6
I just hope against hope that the jury did the right thing here. I can’t imagine the chaos an acquittal would bring.
debbie
My stomach hurts with the waiting. But I remember the judge saying he wanted to release the verdict during the day. He’s kind of pushing things waiting like this, no?
jnfr
Some of my friends are pissed, or at least annoyed, that Biden addressed this at all. Republicans are already winding up the outrage machine at both him and Maxine Waters.
dmsilev
@Thaddeu: After the last four years, how can anyone still think the contradictions need to be heightened?
Baud
@jnfr:
I checked the calendar and it is a day ending in “y.”
Raven
@debbie: the wheels of justice. . .
geg6
@jnfr:
Who gives a shit what they think? Seriously. No one I know thinks what happened to George Floyd was right. And that includes even some Trumpers. Mainly because they, too, have grudges against asshole cops.
ETA: They have those grudges because they are what are labeled as poor white trash. Not enough people of color around here to keep the cops happy harassing them, so they can take out their sadistic and authoritarian jollies out on the poor white trash.
Amir Khalid
@Thaddeu:
I disagree. The “heightening the contradictions” approach was a terrible idea when old-time Marxists preached it — it simply didn’t work in real life — and it’s a terrible idea now. A guilty verdict would at least put Derek Chauvin’s culpability on the public record, and send out the message that police brutality has consequences for brutal cops. It needs to happen more often, for sure, but it will be a good start if it happens this time.
Sabonis15
This makes the judges statement today about Maxine Waters appear more irresponsible, given the extremely low probability that her statement moved 12 minds, or the minimal probability that even one mind was sitting on the mistrial fence and her statement (which was irresponsible IMO), pushed that person off it. Unless evidence emerges that a juror’s view was tainted by what the Representative, this judge should be reprimanded.
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: I had that thought after 2004. I’ve since come to believe that for some folks, contradiction height is infinitely elastic and that those people tend to be every bit as scary as the monsters they pretend to oppose.
Ruckus
@Thaddeu:
You could have a point, if the management of most police departments didn’t agree to some level with cops like DC. It is up to the people/local/state governments to change what goes on in our names.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, it’s not intuitive for me, either, so I wanted to have it in black & white when we get the verdict.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
@MisterForkbeard:
I’m sorry, didn’t the former guy praise Kyle Rittenhouse for crossing state lines with an illegally obtained long gun and killing two people??? Did he not do that repeatedly? Before there was a trial?
She can just STFU and DIAF.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: My tummy is upside down.
tinare
Not an attorney, but sat on a couple of juries. This (relatively) quick decision IMO means the prosecution did its job.
debbie
@Raven:
I’m still pissed off there’s no charge of first degree murder.
JWR
The morning the O.J. verdict came in, I heard a pretty good interview with a couple of leftie lawyers, and they said that, in that case, a quick verdict meant not guilty. I forget why, exactly, but their prediction meant that I’d just won a bet with my co-workers. And no, I didn’t follow the case at all.
Gwangung
Heighten the contradiction is a stupid concept in that it HAS to have a working framework in society. Contradiction that are TOO heightened brings down the entire society…and there’s no guarantee a just system replaces it.
geg6
@Sabonis15:
Her comment, in context, was not in any way irresponsible. She was absolutely right.
debbie
@Sabonis15:
She still should have remained silent until after the verdict. She knows better.
trollhattan
Meanwhile
I know who my money’s on.
debbie
@geg6:
Like it or not, it’s potentially grounds for a mistrial.
WaterGirl
@JWR: I followed it all for the OJ trial, and even came home from work or took a longer lunch hour in order to watch the verdict. I felt like I had been kicked in the stomach when the verdict came down, though I now see how they came to that verdict.
SiubhanDuinne
@Larch:
I think it was pre-planned. Local schools in Twin Cities area will be virtual the rest of the week, regardless of the verdict. So I heard.
UncleEbeneezer
@Elizabelle: If you haven’t already, check out the tv series Underground. Season 2 features Harriet Tubman, and in general, the series, though fictional, went out of its’ way to be pretty historically accurate. And it is really fantastic.
Amir Khalid
@debbie:
I think the highest degree of murder generally requires proof of premeditation: i.e. that Chauvin showed up intending to kill George Floyd. That would have been very hard to prove.
geg6
@debbie:
That would be absurd. Absolutely absurd. Not that some wingnut judge is beyond being absurd, but they could always poll the jury about whether they even know who Auntie Maxine is.
jnfr
@geg6:
I can’t imagine how much crap Obama would be taking if he were in Biden’s place.
And yeah, baud. The outrage is so very predictable.
WaterGirl
I have MSNBC on (paused) while we wait. I just fast forwarded since it’s 3:30. Could Brian Williams just retire already? I don’t want to ever hear another word from his mouth.
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: Jim Jordan’s newest schtick is to be a gigantic asshole to black women in congress, who then loudly tell him to shut the fuck up.
He’ll go fundraising on this from the White Boys.
stacib
@debbie: Bullshit.
Ruckus
@debbie:
I believe that 1st degree would only fit if DC had looked for George, IOW intention was obvious.
Rusty
You would never get a hung jury this quick in any trial. The judge would send them back to keep deliberating. Hung juries are when the jury has been deliberating for a week (or weeks) and can’t decide. The prospect of having to sit for a very long time with the other jurors tends to focus the mind.
Miki
Clerked for a district court judge in Minnesota for 2 years in the mid-80s. My recollection in criminal cases is fast verdict, guilty if defendant is likeable, not guilty if defendant is not likeable, whether or not they take the stand. So my bet is on guilty on Murder 3 and Manslaughter, for sure and maybe also Murder 2 if they find excessive force.
Frankly, I think the State did a better job with their experts than atty Nelson did with his. And Nelson’s cross of the State’s experts, while good, didn’t really change the bottom line of any expert opinions.
As an aside, the judge I worked for had the clerk read the verdict (after showing the completed verdict form/s to the judge). Could be quite a task depending on how much interest the public has in the case (see State v Lois Jurgens). This judge reads the verdicts in his court.
But! It’s always a crap shoot with juries, so who knows.
….
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: My understanding that the premeditation doesn’t have to come before he showed up. That premeditation could have occurred during the incident.
Attorneys?
tinare
@Thaddeu: Holding individual police criminally responsible for their behavior curbs the behavior. Too many getting off in the past has led to them believing the can actually get away with murder.
Another Scott
@debbie: I don’t think that’s true, but IANAL.
(Tweet shows an image of a LATimes headline blaring “Manson Guilty, Nixon Declares”.)
Biden and Waters have no power over the jury, and first-amendment rights to free speech don’t go away when a trial is happening.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@UncleEbeneezer: Thank you. Will look for Underground.
MisterForkbeard
The NYT feed just went out, for me. Hm.
ETA: And it’s back. There’s a reflection of a white hand in the lower left of the screen guys. What does it mean!? Maybe Brian Williams can tell us his thoughts.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
It’s much easier to believe we need to heighten the contradictions or let things blow up when someone else will suffer the consequences. It seems to be trust fund radicals who are most committed to this belief.
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: Where is Underground streaming? Do you know?
phein61
@WaterGirl: Joyce Vance just addressed that on MSNBC. In some states, like Alabama, it can be almost a momentary thing, while in some states, there has to be a certain time span. Not sure where Minnesota falls, but it says there must be “planning,” not spontaneity.
Old School
Elizabelle
@jnfr:
Get better friends. You have my permission.
Returning to life after COVID gives us all a lot of excuses to mix up our social structures.
A friend was musing this weekend on the people she is going to drop giving any credence or time to. Enough. We can make new friends, and sometimes you have to leave the dead wood in the past.
debbie
@Amir Khalid:
Given the animosity between them when they were bouncers at that club, I disagree. I wish it had been brought up during the trial.
James E Powell
@debbie:
Where did you get that idea?
jnfr
@WaterGirl:
I couldn’t agree more.
Amir Khalid
@MisterForkbeard:
ABC News has a livestream on their YouTube channel.
Thaddeu
@dmsilev:
I dont. As a human being, I want this cop to be guilty, so that the family of Floyd gets justice, and because I consider it as murder
As a logical thinker, I am terrified that Chauvin will be considered an outlier, a case far egregious than all the other cop killings. Convicting Chauvin basically puts the lid on all those other cop killings where there is a plausible excuse for the cop getting away.
Back to MLK’s “the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice” — that is very much alive even after Floyd’s killing. Its not just whites – its the moral muddled middle, that now exists across all the races to a certain extent whose only motto is “dont upset my life”. And I want to shock them out of their moral apathy.
Apologies for the rant, but that’s how I feel. The best outcome is still the close to the worst outcome.
Elizabelle
BriWi talking about the narrow band of those recruited into law enforcement. As with the military.
That has got to change. We have seen the problems the rightwingers have brought to both professions.
Tomorrow, I might have to put up a quite interesting story about a bad cop straight outta Fairfax County. (Why yes, he shuffled on down to Florida and got hired there… the Brevard County sheriff was shocked, shocked …) But today, it’s all about the late Mr. George Floyd.
debbie
@Another Scott:
@James E Powell:
I heard that listening to some legal expert interviewed about the case on BBC this morning.
Barbara
@debbie: I don’t see how. Maxine Waters is unlikely to be in a position of trust or influence with members of the jury. She is one person who has an opinion.
dnfree
@Sabonis15: I don’t understand why, when she’s expressing her opinion, Maxine Waters can’t just say that she is not encouraging violence, looting, or property damage. Would that be so difficult?
rp
The classic distinction is: 1st degree, you meticulously planned to kidnap and kill the victim; 2nd degree, you catch your wife in bed with another guy and impulsively shoot both of them. But of course there’s miles of grey area in between.
MisterForkbeard
@James E Powell: The Defense lawyers were already asking about it, basically. The judge in this case basically told them it was silly but they could bring it up during appeal if they wanted to.
I suppose the real danger here is now the Right have an excuse to pretend the whole thing is a miscarriage of justice if Chauvin is convicted and then to blame it on Democrats, but they were going to do that anyway. And if he’s not convicted, any riots will be blamed on Waters and Biden because they ‘inflamed’ the situation.
But the Right would do that anyway, so it gets a big shrug from me.
Amir Khalid
@debbie:
I’ve read that Floyd worked inside the club because he was good with people, while Chauvin worked at the door. It seems they didn’t interact much at that job.
i
rp
Waters’ comments were very stupid. The judge’s comments about Waters’ comments were also very stupid.
Gwangung
@Thaddeu: No, you’re an idiot if you think 45% of the country can be shocked out of their moral depravity. They won’t be.
It still take eternal vigilance and keeping the pressure so the immoral 45% don’t get their way.
Elizabelle
@Thaddeu:
Actually, I think a lot of people realize Chauvin is the tip of the iceberg.
Also: Would suggest you change your language. “Cop killings” can be both killings of law enforcement, and killings by cop, can’t it?? Precision is good.
MisterForkbeard
Not sure if this is correct (saw it in the comments on LGM): “One hour delay in verdict announcement due to “authorities” being put in place throughout the city . . .”
feebog
I’m thinking there was a fairly even split between 2nd, 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. Compromise on 3rd degree murder.
geg6
@rp:
Please explain exactly what you found stupid about them.
Jinchi
@JWR:
In the OJ case, the prosecution made a series of unforced errors and The glove didn’t fit, so , you know….
In this case, several members of the police and fire department testified against Chauvin and none of his lawyers were Johnny Cochran.
WaterGirl
Laura Too is at the courthouse in MN. She is asking me who this guy is. Do you guys know?
Barbara
@rp: I agree that her comments were stupid and yet I find it irksome that all manner of sociopaths get to run around bloviating about the tree of liberty needing the refreshment of blood and that’s just rhetoric.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
Obama’s noting that his son, if he had one, would look like Trayvon sure swayed that Zimmerman jury.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@MisterForkbeard: Or in the immortal words of Mark Slackmeyer, “Guilty, guilty, guilty!”.
Almost Retired
I’m a labor lawyer, and not a criminal lawyer, but the crim law pros on my Facebook feed are unanimous in their conviction that there will be…..well….a conviction. Lots of talk as well about the “Minnesota nice” conduct of the trial (respectful deference to experts, easily led witnesses, minimal objections and other disruptions, etc.). Los Angeles witnesses are much feistier and we lawyers tend to be a bit sharper-of-elbow. Not to mention the crap we have to eat from LASC Judges, cameras on or not. Cracked me up (and pissed me off) that the Judge admonished the paramedic who was pushing back on the defense while on the stand. She would have been a cooperative witness in my world.
dmsilev
@Thaddeu:
That’s exactly a ‘heighten the contradictions’ argument. And it works only very rarely and is always associated with lots and lots of collateral damage.
James E Powell
@MisterForkbeard:
Exactly.
hueyplong
@feebog: I don’t understand how a “compromise” can be quickly reached unless they did some signalling to one another during the trial
The Thin Black Duke
@Thaddeu: I’m tired of white people like you who want black people to be sacrificial lambs for your bullshit ideology.
Barbara
@trollhattan: I read an interview with one of the jurors who said that the judge’s instructions practically demanded acquittal and she was not happy.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: I could see my blonde nephew in Trayvon. Just a beautiful young man on the cusp of adulthood. All those possibilities.
I never think of Trayvon without a sense of loss. He would be in his mid-20s now.
cain
@Amir Khalid:
I’m doing CSPAN myself – https://www.c-span.org/video/?510906-1/jury-reaches-verdict-derek-chauvin-trial&live
Barbara
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m glad you said it!
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke: Thank you!
I mean, as if living through TFG wasn’t enough …
rp
@Barbara: I completely agree, but part of what’s annoying about Waters’ comments is that she’s given those tree of liberty idiots a lot of ammunition to claim the system is rigged, etc. I follow some RW accounts on social media just to get a sense of what they’re talking about, they’re practically salivating over her comments. And, yes, I know that those idiots will find something to scream about, but there was absolutely no reason to give them this soundbite right as the jury is deliberating. The prosecution did it’s job! Stay the f*** out of it until after the trial is done
ETA: But then the judge made even worse with his inane and unprofessional commentary.
planetjanet
@Barbara: Yes, we need justice for Floyd today! We need to stop Chauvin from hurting anyone else ever again.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: I can’t make out the logo on the mic.
He could be from anywhere. The case is getting worldwide attention.
Dunno.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: Also, that jury was chosen to be sympathetic to gun owners/users. They STB (learned that term yesterday, from our very own mistermix; great shorthand.)
geg6
@The Thin Black Duke:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
NetheadJay
@trollhattan: Team Demings here all the way. Gym Jordan would be fighting dirty for sure but Val is a long-time pro and probably has some even dirtier tricks up her sleeve. Also never bet against a black woman.
The Thin Black Duke
@rp: Yeah, why doesn’t that loud black woman keep her mouth shut?
LesGS
@Elizabelle: What is STB?
raven
@The Thin Black Duke: The dude is a moron, fuck him.
CaseyL
PBS also has a live feed up. I just did a search on YouTube and it came up. I figure PBS is likely to be the least offensive news coverage, with less bloviating. I shudder to think of the networks interviewing fucking GQPs to get their take on the verdict, whatever the verdict is.
WaterGirl
@The Thin Black Duke: What an appalling level of arrogance for someone to say we need more white cops killing black men and getting away with it in order to change.
hueyplong
@CaseyL: Im just going to learn it from you all
burnspbesq
@WaterGirl:
I remember being told in my Crim Law class that “it only takes a split second to premeditate.”
Elizabelle
@LesGS: Shit the Bed.
I guess it could be other things too.
BruceFromOhio
@trollhattan: That’s some rich irony there, coming from one of the most fascist of the Fascism Cheering Section.
WaterGirl
@Thaddeu: I found your comment offensive.
Please watch this press conference from yesterday with the Governor of MN and the two mayors (Minneapolis and St. Paul).
Really watch the whole thing, though if you want you can skip the white mayor who was sandwiched in the middle. That was mostly political pablum. But it starts with the Governor, then the white mayor of Minneapolis, then the black mayor of St. Paul, then questions taken by the governor at the end.
Please watch the whole thing if you think Chauvin is going to be sold as one bad apple.
mrmoshpotato
@Elizabelle:
I want that to mean Shake Their Bones, but I know it probably doesn’t.
JWR
@James E Powell: “Where did you get that idea?”
From the judge?:
Elizabelle
So much bloviating on the cable channels.
Which are the best local MN channels? Anyone?
debbie
@Amir Khalid:
I’ve read that Floyd more or less managed all the bouncers and told one of his co-workers (I think it was the guy who said he wouldn’t testify because he didn’t want to incriminate himself) he really didn’t want to have to deal with Chauvin.
I see the murder more as an act opportunity. “Well, well, well. Look who we have here.”
LesGS
@Elizabelle: Ah.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Thanks. Laura thought he might have sounded Russian or maybe Norwegian.
VeniceRiley
@JWR: White male fox news watching judge.
tam1MI
@The Thin Black Duke: The “heighten the contradictions” crowd always want the contradictions heightened at somebody else’s expense.
trollhattan
@mrmoshpotato: Bones = booty. :-)
Elizabelle
Here’s local feed from KSTP: https://kstp.com/news/verdict-reached-in-trial-of-former-minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin-will-be-announced-tuesday-afternoon/6081186/?cat=1
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: I’ll make sure to read that. Did you read the story about the young girl on that iconic Kent State photo? I was in tears . Beautifully written. Brought back memories of how horrible those years were.
Larch
@Elizabelle: I’m watching WCCO — the CBS affiliate. I rarely watch TV news so I don’t know anymore how they stack up against the others, but they’re not terrible.
Another Scott
Good, good.
People have a right to speak, and our side cannot be shut down by the Teabaggers and GQP types that just want to sweep everything under the rug.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
Second degree murder is the most serious charge, per these local TV experts.
IT”S HERE.
geg6
@JWR:
I watched that live and that comment went further and he said he really didn’t think it would although he didn’t approve of what the Black lady said. Don’t be like the lying liars and leave out context.
Miki
@burnspbesq: Same here. But the is textbook felony murder, no need for premeditation.
Suzanne
Here we go.
WaterGirl
Fuck. Judge about to speak. I feel sick.
mali muso
Count me in as a big no thanks to heightening the contradictions. Worried every day that my husband might not come home. The constant mental stress I see him go through just living in his own skin in this racist country. The contradictions are plenty heightened.
Elizabelle
@Kathleen: Did not. Will check that out too.
Kent
Jury is in the courtroom. CNN is now live inside for the reading
CaseyL
Fuck. Here it comes.
Low Key Swagger
I’m pretty much of the believe that his fate was sealed when other cops testified that he used excessive force.
cain
Verdict is coming down.
Tony Jay
Guilty
Elizabelle
Guilty on the first count. And second count. Guilty on third count.
Suzanne
GUILTY.
hells littlest angel
HALLEFUCKINGLUJAH!
debbie
I’m crying ugly tears.
Larch
2nd degree murder: guilty
3rd degree murder: guilty
2nd degree manslaughter: guilty
Baud
?
Kent
Count 1: 2nd degree murder – GUILTY
Count 2: 3rd degree murder – GUILTY
Count 3: 2nd degree manslaughter – GUILTY
Another Scott
(As already noted a dozen times above.)
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
verdict:
Count 1
The second-degree unintentional murder charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death “without intent” while committing or attempting to commit felony third-degree assault. In turn, third-degree assault is defined as the intentional infliction of substantial bodily harm.
GUILTY
count 2
The third-degree murder charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death by “perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.”
GUILTY
Count 3
The second-degree manslaughter charge alleges Chauvin caused Floyd’s death by “culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm.”
GUILTY
Tom Levenson
Guilty on all 3
I’m shaking.
The Thin Black Duke
Listen, it’s–difficult right for me now, because what makes this murder worse than the countless other be black people slaughtered by police in the past was that punk with a badge killed George Floyd in public while people were filming it and he didn’t stop. He didn’t stop because he expected to get away with it. That monster wanted to send a message and an acquittal would be affirmation of what he believed. So I can understand why brothers and sisters are fucking pissed off right now, so the last thing we need are white people telling us how to respond to this bullshit.
MisterForkbeard
Here we go. Guilty on all 3? Holy crap.
SiubhanDuinne
Yes
YES
YES!!!
Barbara
@Tony Jay: I say this with utmost respect: thanks for your brevity.
O. Felix Culpa
Guilty all three counts.
stinger
YESSSSSS!!!!!!
CaseyL
Guilty on all three counts.
I can start breathing again.
debbie
Even better, all 12 jurors said they were their true and correct verdicts!
Kathleen
@Ruckus: Cincinnati police banned choke holds and lots of other measures other forces use. Our Chief of Police kindly educated protesters that demands they were making were for practices no longer used. He said he enjoyed talking with them and hoped to continue the dialog.
RandomMonster
I can’t watch because of a meeting, so I’m really glad I can check results here. Guilty hooray!
Amir Khalid
Guilty on all counts.
Tony Jay
All kinds of guilty.
Good.
rp
hallelujah
Phylllis
Thank whatever deity you believe in.
Barbara
@O. Felix Culpa: I can’t stop shaking. Two fitness classes tonight to keep sane.
Elizabelle
At least Chauvin is wearing a mask for this appearance.
What he wears … the man is going to have a lot less choice in the matter from here on out.
YEA JURY!! And it was “heavy duty jury service.” I like that the judge will answer questions after the fact, in a session with the jury.
trollhattan
Did not expect the trifecta.
Well done, prosecution and jury. Well done.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Good, very good.
NetheadJay
Guilty on all 3. Now polling all jurors. Done, confirmed.
BruceFromOhio
This still has to hit the appeals, but guilty on all three counts makes it very likely this soulless criminal spends a lot of time in prison.
ETA: Bond revoked, remanded to custody. May Gaia have mercy on your wretched soul, should you happen to find one laying around somewhere.
oldster
Oh thank god.
mrmoshpotato
Good, good and good!
randal m sexton
A little justice- hope it can lead to a little peace
cain
C-SPAN had the camera on Chauvin the entire time. Asshole.
ETA: He did not look surprised.
planetjanet
@Larch:
Oh, thank God Almighty!
The Thin Black Duke
I just opened my window and yelled, “Guilty!”
rikyrah
GUILTY
WaterGirl
what are Blakely factors? What’s a PSI?
Kristine
Good.
mdblanche
Chauvin’s bail has been revoked.
Elizabelle
And watching convict Chauvin being handcuffed. Gently.
Larch
I think I heard the judge say 8 weeks to sentencing – some other steps in between. Also bail revoked & Chauvin goes to jail immediately.
Benw
All 3 counts! GULTY AF
Darkrose
@Barbara: What was stupid about her comments?
Raven
Cuffed
Benw
So fucking relieved
Lapassionara
Convicted.
ETA , so relieved.
Elizabelle
I am not surprised, but I am so happy.
I did not expect guilty on ALL THREE COUNTS. Wow.
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
HALLELUJAH!
Wag
I am so glad to see that door close behind him after DC walked through with his hands in cuffs. Thank go it is done
Larch
Local alternative radio (The Current) is playing Sam Cook’s “A Change is Going to Come” – yes!
VeniceRiley
Well done, Jury.
DMac
GUILTY on ALL 3 charges!
What a relief.
At last, some justice!
Miki
Blakely factors – enhanced sentencing. PSI- Pre-sentencing Investigation. Bail being revoked upon conviction is how it usually works.
WaterGirl
why do we care what Michael Steele has to say? The guy before him was good.
debbie
@The Thin Black Duke:
❤️
Miss Bianca
@Thaddeu: Your concerns have been noted. Meanwhile, let’s get on with some justice.
Raven
Fuck Jason Johnson
SFBayAreaGal
@The Thin Black Duke: I hear you and agree 100%.
Elizabelle
Now I feel such a settling in loss over George Floyd. Justice for his survivors, but he can never come back.
Old School
@Thaddeu: My sympathies.
Raven
@WaterGirl: fuck him
Another Scott
@The Thin Black Duke: Thanks for trying to keep us on track on these threads.
Repost: NBCNews:
I will be looking for a sentence of much, much more than 10 years.
And I hope that Garland’s DOJ takes a very hard look at the MPD while also looking at departments nation-wide. These murders are not isolated incidents and must be addressed in a systemic way. Consent decrees are needed, and they need to be enforced.
Cheers,
Scott.
Alison Rose
Thank the Lord above there are still jurors with some fucking sense.
Phylllis
I served on a federal jury and what I learned is so much hinges on the judge’s instructions to the jury. Whenever we would start drifting, our foreman, who was a great guy, would bring us back to those instructions. I’d love to see what they were for this jury.
geg6
All counts. Justice for the Floyds. I am beyond sad and relieved for them.
cain
Now I want to know what the sentencing is going to be like. Also, I want to know what those other officers are going to face.
CaseyL
I heard President Biden was going to say something after the verdict. Anyone know when or where to see that?
Elizabelle
NY Times subheadline informs that Chauvin could get 40 years.
Please, please, please.
Barbara
@Darkrose: Not the comments per se but their timing.
guachi
There were two possible reactions to the verdict: relief or anger. We got the relief verdict.
geg6
@WaterGirl:
I think Blakely is about the aggravating factors.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Is that where consent decrees come in? Because Justice just restored those IIRC.
O. Felix Culpa
@Alison Rose: Yes. And the prosecution did a good job too.
Miss Bianca
@rp:
Shorter you: “WHY THE HELL WON’T THIS UPPITY BLACK LADY JUST SHUT UP?!”
@The Thin Black Duke: Or, y’know…what you said.
WaterGirl
@CaseyL: I am guessing that Biden will be on all the TV channels and on YouTube.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Dangerman:
Both OJ juries got it right.
Miki
Sobbing. These were the right verdicts. But they were built on the bodies and lives of too many black men and women and children. My heart breaks that this is what it takes to just chip away at rotten, murderous policing.
Rest in power, Mr. Floyd.
Elizabelle
KSTP is interviewing a newly 11-year old girl, Madonna, who is pleased (elated) with the verdict. Now her parents are weighing in, too.
SFBayAreaGal
I am happy he was found guilty. I am sad for Mr. Floyd’s family and friends.
rp
@Miss Bianca: I have tons of respect for her. But this was a misstep.
Amir Khalid
@CaseyL:
I understand Biden plans to to have a phone call with the Floyd family first.
Alison Rose
@O. Felix Culpa: Glad to hear that. I haven’t seen any of it, don’t have TV and not sure I could handle it. But I’m very glad they went hard and the jury clearly wasn’t buying the defense’s bullshit for a moment.
Elizabelle
@SFBayAreaGal: I know. It’s like, now the Floyd family really has to lay George to rest. He and his case were alive for all of this, and now there is a verdict, and his absence is stunning now.
Tony Jay
@Barbara:
Nothing more needed to be said. The Jury did it for us all.
James E Powell
@WaterGirl:
PSI = pre sentencing investigation
Another Scott
@trollhattan: Yes and yes.
CNBC:
They’re going to be busy…
Cheers,
Scott.
jnfr
@cain:
He looked pretty freaked.
The Thin Black Duke
@Miss Bianca: No worries, it’s worth repeating. Let’s make sure the folks in the cheap seats can hear.
Ksmiami
@The Thin Black Duke: Hi – um I think we need better history taught in this country so more Americans become aware of what Black and Native Americans have endured for centuries with the antiAsian and Latino violence thrown in as well. And top to bottom police reform.
I benefited from the more in-depth education I received at MHC and it made me more empathetic and simultaneously more angry about injustice.
@mali muso: heighten the contradiction always seems to come from Bernie bro types who don’t have to worry about the resulting violence. What’s needed is justice departmental national review and reform.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Busy is the word.
One thing I’ll give the administration, they don’t shy away from things that need doing, even if it’s at the same time.
Dan B
Quiet here in our 85% minority neighborhood. They’re mostly at work. My partner is alternating between weepy and angry at Chauvin. He wants some not nice things about his wishes for Chauvin.
I want dramatic police reconstruction. Reform is weak tea if it can be dialed back a bit and rendered toothless.
Emotions bubbling up as the pressure of the possible fades away and the possibility of further progress increases.
FelonyGovt
So very, very relieved. Doesn’t even begin to make it right, but I was really worried about a hung jury.
WaterGirl
I can’t get the image of George Floyd out of my head, looking at all the people watching him being slowly murdered, surely wondering why no one is stopping this from happening. sobbing.
quakerinabasement
@Raven:
You haven’t met my wife. She continues “planning” long, long after events have passed us by.
debbie
@quakerinabasement:
I’m less than an excellent planner, but I can pick up an argument right where I left off after 10, even 20 years.
dww44
@Raven: Johnson’s been over the top a lot lately. And with all respect to Water Girl I thought that Steele’s comments were more measured and thoughtful.