We will continue to tweet updates as we have them. If you live nearby please stay inside for now 2/2 #Bouldershooting
— Boulder Police Dept. (@boulderpolice) March 22, 2021
Here’s the YouTube live feed of KCEN 6’s coverage:
Law enforcement has taken away an individual in hand cuffs, but it is unclear if he is the suspect:
https://twitter.com/DanSnyderFOX25/status/1374112891419435020
Police in Boulder, CO escorting a man in handcuffs after an active shooter was reported at a King Soopers grocery store. pic.twitter.com/n3yZz5X093
— Kyla Galer (@kylagaler) March 22, 2021
There is a video bouncing around from an unidentified live streamer who actually caught some of the shooting on video. This includes several gun shots, several injured or dead people, and one exceedingly nonchalant old guy checking his cell phone and wearing his mask wrong…
I’ve yet to see anything official regarding the number of fatalities, I’ll update once a reliable and confirmable source provides credible and verified information.
Boulder police say situation is still active, ask people to stay away from King Soopers where apparent shooting happened this afternoon. No confirmation on casualties/arrests.
— KOA NewsRadio 850 AM & 94.1 FM (@KOAColorado) March 22, 2021
Here’s Governor Polis’s statement:
Like my fellow Coloradans, I am closely watching unfolding events at King Soopers in Boulder. My prayers are with our fellow Coloradans in this time of sadness and grief as we learn more about the extent of the tragedy.
— Governor Jared Polis (@GovofCO) March 22, 2021
Update at 6:50 PM EDT
Here’s reporting with footage from Reuters on the individual taken out in handcuffs:
WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT – Police in Boulder, Colorado, reported an ‘active shooter’ at a King Soopers grocery store, and aerial footage broadcast live from the scene by local media showed one person being placed in an ambulance and a man in handcuffs https://t.co/9j5m64WvXz pic.twitter.com/wREnM43QsH
— Reuters (@Reuters) March 22, 2021
Update at 7:15 PM EDT (via TaMara):
Emergency notification just went out: Boulder police asking people near 17th and Grove to shelter in place while they respond to report of armed, dangerous individual. PD is investigating to determine if this is related to King Soopers shooting.
— Boulder Police Dept. (@boulderpolice) March 22, 2021
Open thread!
debbie
Jesus, these guys.
Cheryl Rofer
Bare feet and chest. Huh.
craigie
I was told that giving everyone guns would make everyone safe. Was that not true?
debbie
Why is the guy narrating his video and NOT CALLING 911?
Emma from FL
Another week. Another bunch of dead Americans.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: That’s either the shooter or because they hadn’t identified the shooter at the time they evaced him for medical treatment for his leg, they cuffed him to be safe and not sorry.
Cheryl Rofer
NobodySpecial
@Cheryl Rofer: Dude also appears to have a bloody leg.
smedley the uncertain
No, not Again.
ellie
I worked at that store last year. That old guy wearing his mask wrong works at the service desk. That video was disturbing. It looked like one person down at the self-checkout inside along with the two outside.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: It’s too early to call it, but I am going to guess that anyone with no shoes and shirt at this time of year (we’ve got a wintry storm going on that I think reaches that far north) is not one of the shoppers.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: The live streamer. He’s got views he’s got to get.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: You haven’t been to Florida lately have you?
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Nor have you just put out the garbage in Santa Fe.
Martin
Protips during an active shooter:
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks, I was looking for this to post.
debbie
I wonder what addiction this was supposed to fix? //
CaseyL
Looks like another white guy. Quelle surprise.
One accidental consequence of most of the country being locked down most of the last year was the lack of mass shootings. I guess you can tell we’re “getting back to normal” with mass shootings happening every week again.
debbie
Apparently a police officer has died, according to the NPR newscast I’m listening to. There will be a briefing soon.
rk
Is there ever a white suspect who’s not been taken alive?
Cheryl Rofer
Thread from Denver Post reporter.
Mary G
Imagining that poor family seeing a person six feet away shot and then hiding in a closet with your children hurts my heart. I hope they get some therapy.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: I have just put the garbage out at around 9,500 feet up at our place in Rociada in the mountains outside of Las Vegas, NM. I also graduate from high school in Denver.
Mustang Bobby
I used to live near there. I used to shop there.
Alison Rose
God, I wish the NRA and all of them had been right and Obama really had taken away everyone’s guns.
I fucking hate guns and I fucking hate gun nuts.
Roger Moore
@rk:
Plenty, though usually it’s because they kill themselves.
TaMara (HFG)
Just tweeted – believe this is where SWAT went off to:
Adam L Silverman
9 News in Denver – that’s the live stream embedded in the post – is reporting that the SWAT Team is now staged at 17th and Grove in Boulder and everyone in the area is requested to shelter in place. They are responding to a report of an armed and dangerous individual. 9 News is making it clear that police are not specifically linking this to the mass shooting.
Ksmiami
@Alison Rose: get rid of the second Amendment. And if gun nuts don’t agree, we’ll get rid of them too.
JPL
@TaMara (HFG): oh f..k..
JPL
VeniceRiley
@ellie: I hope everyone you know is okay. I wonder if you and Mustang Bobby downthread would recognize each other on sight?
TaMara (HFG)
@Mustang Bobby: I used to work across the street from there and shopped there all the time. I have many clients who live in that area. I’ll be checking in with all of them once things calm down.
Cheryl Rofer
Punchy
Not to be That Guy, but can you really title this a “mass shooting” without knowing if or how many were actually shot? Maybe preface with “possible” to imply the existence of these unknowns?
Martin
@Punchy: Given the video above showing 3 people down, I think it’s probably a safe title.
TaMara (HFG)
I want to caution everyone – shirtless, shoeless guy could very well just be a victim. Police HAVE NOT identified him as the shooter yet.
Adam L Silverman
@Punchy: The unconfirmed reporting is 6 to 7 dead. The threshold for a mass shooting is four or more shot. For a mass murder is four or more killed.
ellie
@VeniceRiley: I wonder, too! Boulder is such a laid-back place. Working there was pleasant. The parent company is stingy, but I liked my coworkers and the customers were friendly.
TaMara (HFG)
This is not good. Gov Polis has obviously been briefed with some terrible news:
TaMara (HFG)
@TaMara (HFG): With 6 ambulances lined up and 3 medical helicopters standing by with no activity…I’m waiting for grim news.
Punchy
@Adam L Silverman: well, then this qualifies. But from what I could read up top for the latest update, I saw no ref to any victims. Hence my “huh?”. If correct, this indeed is a horrific outcome.
Brachiator
@Cheryl Rofer:
Goddammit. Are we now going to have to post armed guards wherever people are getting vaccinations?
Cheryl Rofer
@TaMara (HFG): I agree, but hard to see why they’d leave his shirt and shoes inside.
OTOH, it’s hard to see how he’d get in the store with a gun dressed like that.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Tore his pants legs off because of bullet wounds?
BC in Illinois
“Random gun violence in public places, being necessary for the security of a free State . . . “
A free interpretation of the Second Amendment (1791)
Adam L Silverman
@Punchy: I pointed out that I hadn’t seen anything confirmed yet up top in the post.
Mustang Bobby
@VeniceRiley: It was in 1983-1984.
Martin
@Cheryl Rofer: Given the two bodies outside the store and the one at the self-checkout, I’m thinking the shooter ‘overruled’ the mask/shirt requirements upon entry.
Frankensteinbeck
@Roger Moore:
It’s not called ‘suicide by cop’ for nothing. It’s just that it’s unthinkable for nonwhites to be handled with less than lethal force for something like this.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
You can’t guard everywhere. You certainly can’t guard everywhere with enough people to be reasonably likely to stop someone intent on mass violence. The only way to deal with this- and the way that works in essentially every other country in the world- is to not let anyone who wants pack massive firepower.
piratedan
is positive that the top story in tonight’s news will still be the “crisis” at the border where kids are crossing into the US to take advantage of vaccine access and school lunches while they get to have their fates discussed by the Right Wing Hate Machine…
I still believe that we need to tether gun ownership to having firearm insurance and we likely won’t get any real firearm registration and responsibility until we do. As it, all of this shit is passed on to us and not to the people who own the guns and make the guns.
Miss Bianca
@CaseyL:
This sounds disturbingly similar to something I found myself just saying a moment ago.
Damn. Boulder. Suddenly starting to think this could happen in my neck of the (extremely rural CO) woods. There’s been enough hard right-wing rhetoric flying around, for sure.
MisterForkbeard
@Roger Moore: Okay, but what if we gave everyone a gun once they turned 6 years old? That would surely dissuade people who wanted to suicide by cop, right? And wouldn’t result in anyone else getting killed?
Miss Bianca
@TaMara (HFG): Damn, TaMara. : (
HumboldtBlue
I turned on my laptop five minutes ago to watch some NCAA and all I got was a news feed from CBS Denver and I had the sound muted. That said, I knew without turning up the volume or checking news headlines what had happened.
The scene is hauntingly the same in every instance.
The body language, the mood and facial expressions of those reporting, the earnestness to find answers, any answers as quickly as possible was all palpable just from the images.
Brachiator
@piratedan:
Unfortunately, I don’t see this happening. The Supremes would interpret this as infringing on the right to keep and bear arms.
Honus
@rk: the Portland protester that Trump’s squad executed last fall in Washington state. The pro-antifa guy.
Miss Bianca
@ellie: Yow. : (
TaMara (HFG)
And it begins…6 so far
piratedan
@Brachiator: funny how they don’t feel the same way about casting a ballot.
Yutsano
@Brachiator:
They don’t really need any excuse to stop gun regulations. The precedent in Heller has given them free reign and they know it.
debbie
@piratedan:
And it’s a very good thing that so many Trump supporters didn’t vote!
Burnspbesq
@Ksmiami:
Which 38 state legislatures are you planning to convince?
Victor Matheson
That’s my parents’ grocery store. It’s where we bought doughnuts and beer in high school (not necessarily at the same time…)
James E Powell
@piratedan:
Well, hell, guns are right there in the 2nd amendment, right after free speech and God. They didn’t get to voting until, like, the 15th amendment. Can’t be that important.
James E Powell
@Burnspbesq:
Don’t overwhelm them with 38. See if they can find even one.
UncleEbeneezer
And two blocks from where I am at, and elderly couple was just stabbed to death. Helicopter above us now. Killer still on the loose. Fun times.
The Thin Black Duke
What the fuck is there left to say? This keeps on happening and it won’t stop because Americans refuse to do the right thing.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Superweird that mass shooting events are never halted by citizens armed with firearms equal to that wielded by the mass shooter….
MomSense
@Ksmiami:
And if we can’t get rid of 2A let’s at least bring back the well regulated part.
TaMara (HFG)
Roger Moore
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Obviously, this is evidence there aren’t enough armed citizens out there. /NRA
Suzanne
Oh Lord. Again.
I drove home by the Tree of Life synagogue today. The Safeway outside which Gabby Giffords was shot was my store for the two years that I lived in the northern part of Tucson.
I used to not be a gun grabber, but now I am. Grab them all.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@James E Powell:
I can see the camo-clad, flabby neckbeards drawling and squealing about their “gawd-given rights”, trembling and barely in control as they contemplate life without their shitty plastic dick extensions.
Geminid
@Yutsano: The Heller decision did affirm an individual right to possess firearms. But it also affirmed the authority of federal and state governments to reasonably regulate sale and possession of federal firearms. Unless the Supreme Court wants to overule Antonin Scalia’s majority opinion, gun safety measures like the six enacted by Virginia last year will withstand court challenge.
That’s not to say Virginia’s laws would have kept a gun out of the hands of this murderer. Colorado’s certainly did not.
japa21
OT, I have been watching the sand hill cranes come in to roost. It helps keep me from dwelling on all the bad news.
Glory b
@Suzanne: I live one neighborhood over from the Tree of Life, I’ve always liked the stained glass there. Before my beloved pup went on to his reward, we would walk that way at least once a week.
The shootings there are doubly awful because the shooter’s motivation was the announcement that one of the congregations that used the building were sponsoring a group of refugees (I can’t remember from where). Needless to say, those plans were dashed. I don’t think any Pittsburgh group has sponsored any since then, but I hope I’m wrong.
Also, Sandra Oh spoke at the rally against Asian violence here this weekend. It was in Oakland, adjacent to Pitt’s campus.
MagdaInBlack
@japa21: That’s just awesome. Thank you !
japa21
@MagdaInBlack: You are welcome. Watching them take off at sunrise is spectacular as well.
Elizabelle
Fuck.
Although: I think Biden is going to be able to get some gun safety legislation through. The only reason we aren’t having school shootings is that most of the schools are closed. This is happening too damn often, and there are more of us who can imagine being a victim, or losing a loved one, than those who hump their guns.
Just got in, and a friend phoned me about this latest. Tragic.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
You don’t need massive firepower to to this much damage. It makes it easier, but it isn’t necessary. Most any modern weapon will do, some that have been around and available for decades would do. I’m talking semi auto handguns. Easy to hide, can hold a lot of rounds, can be reloaded easily. And can easily do a significant amount of damage. Someone who knows what they are doing can cause a lot of death and destruction.
It isn’t just assault rifles that are not necessary.
Sure Lurkalot
I lived in Boulder from 73 to 81. Upon arriving at CU freshman orientation, the women were given whistles as there had been some on campus assaults and rapes the year before. So I learned early on it was not all peace and love in beautiful Boulder.
I occasionally shopped at that particular grocery and rented an apartment a block from 17th and Grove for my senior year.
Sad, horrified, furious.
Geminid
@Geminid: Sorry, bad edit. That should ” the authority to regulate sale and possession of firearms.” Not “federal firearms.”
Amir Khalid
@Honus:
How so? Requiring that motor vehicles (for example) be insured doesn’t seem to deter people from buying them.
Elizabelle
@Suzanne: I think we should come for their guns. Too many guns in too many bad hands.
I think the number of guns floating around is what is behind all the police shootings, too. They are afraid of those they police, particularly if the residents are people of color.
This has to stop.
Cheryl Rofer
The local news people on Channel 7 are filling air time waiting for the police statement, which was supposed to be at 6, then at 6:30. Their theme is that this is just so terrible, but it’s good that the police are prepared, and it’s just the way we live now. No inquiry into WHY we must live this way or whether it’s a good thing. They think it is very sad.
Hard to listen to.
Alison Rose
@Ksmiami: I wholeheartedly second that emotion.
Eunicecycle
@Elizabelle: I have never understood why police don’t get behind gun control legislation. It would help them avoid being outgunned.
sdhays
@debbie: Just another guy having a “bad day”. //
Raven
@Elizabelle: we who?
MagdaInBlack
@japa21: Since you and I are in the same area: There is a pair that hangs out along the side road by Goebberts Punkin Farm, off Higgins. I see them in the summer on my evening drive home. Also saw them with their babies once, out strolling along the road. ?❤️
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
He killed a cop and they still took him alive. From the video I saw, they were treating nicely. I think they’re going to take him to Chipotle for dinner. Being white has so many privileges (unless you’re a hippie)
Barbara
@Glory b: My mother grew up just a few blocks from Tree of Life. I drove through that neighborhood probably every week I lived in Pittsburgh because it was like an oasis during some very bleak times for the city. Every time I think of that shooting I wonder how anyone could be so sick and twisted as to believe that virtue required them to kill people who were so meek and modest, yes, okay, some of the “least” among us.
japa21
@MagdaInBlack:
I will have to check that out. We spend a lot of money at Goebefrtt’s. They fly over us a lot on their migration north. Always love the sound.
Elizabelle
@Raven: Reasonable people.
HumboldtBlue
Here’s a short video of Trump on Fox news today.
debbie
@David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch:
If that guy was the shooter and he killed a cop, they wouldn’t be treating him nicely.
Cheryl Rofer
Press conference is on now.
Won’t say how many are dead or injured. “Scene is still being processed.”
Saying very little, won’t speculate on motive.
Number of victims is known, but families are being notified. Want to talk to families before more information is made public.
One suspect in custody.
scav
@Eunicecycle: But where’s the fun in that? So long as there’s an arms race, police depts get new and bigger toys to play with, rinse and repeat.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Some of these questions are insidiously stupid. “Will you be pressing charges?”
Cheryl Rofer
Boulder Police Department will release more information in the next few hours.
Suspect being treated at the hospital.
Will post info on their Twitter.
Starfish
@Cheryl Rofer: The police are not saying much. It is disappointing. A police officer died. They are not releasing the other numbers.
This grocery store is a COVID vaccination site.
dnfree
@MagdaInBlack: There are a lot of sandhill cranes in the small ponds/flood retention areas near Randall Road and Bowes Road, Elgin/South Elgin area. Some winter over.
Cheryl Rofer
@Starfish: The police aren’t saying anything about who died. The news reporters say a police officer is dead.
Disappointing, perhaps, but much better than the clown in Georgia who said the shooter was having a bad day.
raven
@Elizabelle: So reasonable people are going to go door-to-door, search every house and confiscate the guns?
japa21
@dnfree:
Thanks. Will have to make a run there.
Starfish
Mitchell is a local reporter. He says, at least six dead.
https://twitter.com/mitchellbyars/status/1374160404616646658?s=19
MagdaInBlack
@dnfree: Ive seen them there too. ( I work in South Elgin ) That video clued me in to what I’ve been hearing flying over when I’m outside at work. They were flying too high for me to see what they were, but i could hear them ?
Punchy
@debbie: wait…..they really asked if the police will be filing charges against a mass murderer? OMFG.
Geminid
@Honus: Michael Reinoehl had a second degree murder charge against him, so he may not have been just a protester. He gave an interview to Vice News the day he was killed, where he in effect admitted to shooting the man whose death he was charged with. He claimed he was defending a friend. Surveillance camera tape before the shooting apparently shows Reinoehl stalking the victim, though. Eyewitness accounts of Reinoehl’s own death indicate that police did not give him a chance to surrender.
Portland and Oregon newspapers had a lot of coverage of these two shootings. Pro Publica has a good article as well.
MagdaInBlack
@japa21: Andy’s Frozen Custard, on Randall. You won’t be sorry ??
Martin
@Punchy: Look, the suspect is white. It’s a reasonable question.
japa21
@MagdaInBlack: Thanks for the tip.
Punchy
Is Boulder in Bohbert’s (sp?) district?
Baud
@Martin:
Ron Johnson would be against it.
RSA
@Ruckus:
There are almost four hundred million guns in the U.S., owned by about a third of the adult population. I’d be happy to live in a gun-free society but I don’t think the U.S. will ever get there.
Raven
@Punchy: no way
HumboldtBlue
Raven
Who’s going to disarm the Not Fucking Around Coalition?
David Fud
The press confirmed that the guy they walked out that was barely clothed was the “person of interest”, and that the threat to the public is over.
Elizabelle
@raven: No. But maybe we should, for the military grade stuff. Or make the ammo unavailable.
Register and insure the guns. No more Stephen Paddock style armories, where no one knows how much he was collecting. (The Las Vegas shooter; also holds for the insaniac who shot up the Aurora CO movie theatre years ago, and ordered a lot of ammo online, if memory serves.)
But enough of having ammosexuals owning everything up to a rocket launcher.
More red flag warnings. More guns removed from unstable hands. And make them harder to buy, and a long waiting period with a serious background check.
Register them. Insure them. Enough of this shit. We cannot afford the present situation.
ellie
@Punchy: No. Joe Neguse is the Rep there.
Mike in NC
OK, where the hell did the name King Soopers come from?
Sister Golden Bear
Not sure if it’s related, but SWAT responded to reports of an armed individual (near 17th and Grove for Boulderans). They took two older men with them, unclear if they were suspects or witnesses.
https://kdvr.com/video/swat-at-condo-complex-on-17th-street-in-boulder/6461227/
Geminid
@Punchy: Boebert’s CO 3rd District is on the other side of the Front Range from Boulder. It’s bordered on the south by New Mexico, on the west by Utah.
Elizabelle
@Raven: Not a reason for inaction.
Maybe some of them will be swept up in insurrection charges.
Raven
@Mike in NC: King Soopers is a supermarket brand of Kroger in the Rocky Mountains of the United States. It is headquartered in Denver, Colorado. King Soopers has a significant presence in the state of Colorado on the eastern slope of the Rocky Mountains
Glory b
@Barbara: It is a lovely neighborhood, my favorite for walks.
The synagogue is still, unfortunately, closed.
Cameron
@Raven: Scary black people with guns? Call in a drone strike!
susanna
@Cheryl Rofer:
Suspect has handcuffs on in photos.
He’s being treated decently, or so it appears.
A whole lot of quiet going on.
Might he be a police officer?
Starfish
@Punchy: No. We are in Joe Neguse’s district. Surprisingly, Boebert’s tweet was less bad than Ken Buck’s. Buck wanted to acknowledge the dead police officer and no one else. Boebert acknowledged the police officer and other victims, then deleted the tweet to be more inclusive of the other victims.
Raven
@susanna: he might be a Buddhist monk too.
Omnes Omnibus
@Punchy:
The best way not to be that guy is to not be that guy.
persistentillusion
@Punchy:
No, she’s on the west slope. Boulder is Front Range (east side of the Continental Divide).
Ksmiami
@Burnspbesq: dissolve the red state leadership first…
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
I see, from a posting on twitter, that an AR-15 was used.
Please don’t think that I, from this first comment that I made, in any way condone weapons or arming everyone. All having guns do is provide an opportunity to kill someone/something. Many countries do allow guns and many do not. But aligning shitty news reporting – fox and their ilk – and scared shitless brain damaged conservative assholes with guns, has been one of the worst things conservatives have done in the last 75 yrs. And that’s not a short list. My point was that most any gun of the last 50 yrs is far more than capable of doing immense amounts of damage and the ease of purchase makes sick fucks capable of being irresponsible for using them.
Ksmiami
@Alison Rose: I don’t give a shit about these maniacs that live among us. I hope they fucking choke on their own bullets while avoiding a Covid vaccine. I used to be a nice person but America will not be ok when at least 35 percent of the voting population is insane
Suzanne
@Glory b: I work right on the corner of Shady Ave and Penn, so I drive by there a lot. I didn’t attend the rally this weekend due to getting my second COVID shot and feeling like crap. My project that is in the middle of construction is at UPMC Presbyterian in Oakland.
geg6
@Glory b:
Yes, Oakland has a diverse Asian population and, between Pitt, CMU and the hospitals, more AAPI than anywhere else in the city.
Ksmiami
@Suzanne: the history of rules and regulations is something like this… you enjoy this thing, some idiot trashes that thing or is reckless etc, then new rules arise governing the use of thing. In other words, too many reckless, feckless, drooling idiots have guns without any responsible oversight. This needs to end right fucking now and if you won’t turn in your assault weapons, the us government can drone your fucking house. I don’t really give a shit about these shitty people. At all…
Ruckus
@RSA:
Rather difficult to put the cat in the bag when there is one cat. A dramatically more difficult job when that cat can do a lot more damage than a scratch, and there are millions of them.
I have no idea how taking away the guns would work. Raven’s point about who is going door to door and collecting them really says it all. I think that we will have to learn to live with them and I don’t see how to do that.
Ksmiami
@Ruckus: one remedy is to go after every single person affiliated with a mass shooter’s carnage from his parents to the gun seller, to the fucking guy who sold him a slurpee that day. Heads, pikes, massive fines…our country is just out of control and it’s over privileged and under talented white guys who are the problem
Starfish
@Ruckus: Make sales much harder. Harder than voting. Harder than renting a car. Harder than getting an abortion in a red state.
Geminid
@Elizabelle: I’d like to see Virginia move to a permit-to-purchase system, where someone has to apply for and qualify for a license to own a firearm before he can buy one. The purchase would still require a background check.
While adding another step to firearms purchase might not seem that consequential, outcomes in Missouri, which abolished their permit-to-purchase law, and in Connecticut, which adopted permit-to-purchase, indicate that these types of laws have a real effect on gun violence. And a permit to buy system could give a state a means to require firearms training, perhaps other qualifications.
Last year Virginia imposed universal background checks. A useful complement to that law would another one imposing strict liability on anyone who sells a gun illegally, for damage done by that gun.
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: But we cannot learn to live with them. That sounds kind of defeatist, honestly.
And I tire of the constant quote, some person who cannot believe this gun massacre happened in his/her city/town/community.
Why would you ever think that, in this day and age??
Elizabelle
@Geminid: Very good ideas.
And take a really, really hard look at domestic abusers.
Starfish
@Starfish: Cancel menacing your state legislators with open carry day. People can show up and talk about their issue, but the annual menace your legislators days need to stop.
Ksmiami
@Elizabelle: I would like the federal government to rain down the full strength of its authority to promote the general welfare by eliminating gun ownership aside from a small handgun or single action rifle. Everything else is just a suicide or murder ready to happen. Anyone who hunkers down to defend their so called right to murder gets same treatment as what we do to our enemies in afghani villages.. hat tip – there’s nothing left but fucking rubble. Ps my spouse and daughter were just there in Boulder last weekend and I’m over this shit. We are either a decent society or a failing one.
Starfish
How does a thread with a shooting in the town feel when everyone ignores that you live there and turns it into whatever nonsense they want, Starfish?
Well, I am glad you asked. It feels not great.
dww44
@Elizabelle: Thanks for the specifics. I agree with all your suggestions. It may be impossible to put the entire genie back into the bottle but we can mitigate the harm. This obscene fascination with the 2nd Amendment and ever more lethal guns is simply untenable. It was not always thus. it doesn’t have to continue to be our future.
Llelldorin
@Starfish: Just wait until it sinks in that one reason for that is just how many of these there are—many of us have lived through variants of this in our hometowns or workplaces (I’m a YouTube employee, for example).
That’ll also not feel terrific.
Ksmiami
@Elizabelle: agreed there is no just living with this because well we aren’t “living”
Elizabelle
@Ksmiami: There is not a reason for us to co-exist with ammosexuals. There just is not.
We no longer have to co-exist with smokers on airliners, or in restaurants.
The situation can change, and perhaps it can change faster than expected.
None of this “nothing can be done.” Fuck that shit.
Elizabelle
TEN fatalities.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
It probably/likely is sort of defeatist. We all go, how can this happen? And yet it does and over a third of the country believes it is their god given right to murder those who want to stop them from murdering people. I don’t see a way to change it given the political reality of our time. I’d like to be 1000% wrong, but give me a map of doing much about this. Because I do not see a path to changing it. At least not in many places. Of course those places could become almost ghost towns if all the gun humpers were relocated to reeducation camps. But I don’t see that happening either. We have a very checkered history, and guns have been a part of that. How do you fix this in this day and age? I’m far more than willing to listen, I’ve just never heard anything remotely plausible. I doubt we have to convince the vast majority of the left, hell we’ve just had an armed assault upon our capital, incited by a number of national elected officials.
Come up with a possible cure and I would be one of the first on board. But in the last 20 yrs I’ve heard nothing that I think will ever get enough support or that isn’t totally unfeasible.
Starfish
@Llelldorin: Someone was streaming this live. I heard from it from a friend on Twitter and sent a message to my spouse in a different room. He watched the person who was livestreaming this on YouTube and probably should not have. People were asking what makes a person live stream the site of a mass shooting instead of trying to help anyone.
Starfish
Llelldorin
@Starfish: Sorry if that came across as angry at you. I’m not, but I am continuously furious that “there was a mass shooting in my town” is becoming the equivalent of saying “there’s a Little League ballpark in my town”—a basic “yes, I did grow up in the United States.”
Ruckus
A lot of people have come up with other things that have changed radically. Smoking in public. No seatbelts. It hasn’t been that long ago that we’ve gotten remote voting – mail/drop off for everyone. But guns have a “special” place in US history. Many consider them essential to protect us from big government. We have the second amendment. Not that it says what a lot of the right thinks it does. We have many judges and a supreme court that likely will disallow any major change in gun laws. Can we change this? Yes we can, the laws that allow all the changes we would like to see are on the books. We just need enough people to make it happen. Tell me how we get there. Yes popular opinion is overwhelmingly for gun control, but is that overwhelming for the control that will make a difference or is it just some sort of control? I’m an old, who has been paying attention for a long time and I just don’t see a big enough, strong enough desire for a wholesale change, in public opinion/political action. I’d like very much to be surprised.
Elizabelle
Who gives a fuck about “motive”? It does not matter.
One of the women shot was standing at the front of the line for a COVID shot. She thought today was a day she would receive a life-preserving medical treatment. She may have been murdered. In a grocery store.
They know how to shoot in Colorado, don’t they? Ten dead here. Twelve dead in the Aurora movie theatre shooting.
Biden is not at day 100 yet; he’s not at day 75, right? And this is the second mass shooting in a week.
TaMara (HFG)
@Starfish: I’m with you on this…this one hits so close to home…email me if you need to vent…
lurkypants
@raven: Nice false choice there! Because of course going door-to-door is the only thing that could possibly happen.
We can start by trying what other countries have done and do a massive buyback program. You got a gun or ammo? We’ll give you cash for it, no questions asked.
We tax the fuck out of ammo and restrict its manufacture, importation, and use. Require a license for its purchase. Require it to be sold in smaller increments. Hey, you’re allowed to bear arms, but the 2A doesn’t say anything about ammo.
You own a gun, you’re liable for anything that happens as a result of its discharge. There’s no such thing as an accident anymore. Your kid finds your gun and shoots another kid? Shoot someone during an argument? You’re liable, and you’re going to jail.
No one will be going door-to-door, but if your weapons stockpile is found during a lawful search, it will be confiscated.
No buying guns at gun shows, not unless they comply with federal regulations. No buying guns as gifts for kids, or to get around red flag laws.
We don’t have to live with things as they are, even if we’re stuck with the Second Amendment and a bunch of trigger-happy assholes who have enjoyed their penis substitutes without consequence for far too long with far too much harm to the rest of us.
Llelldorin
@Starfish: Didn’t see the stream, and don’t have enough context, so I can’t comment.
I will immediately say, speaking only for myself, that I can’t guarantee that I’ll behave sensibly—much less heroically—the next time someone shoots at me or my colleagues. Most of us don’t go to work or go shopping planning for a gunfight.
Ruckus
@lurkypants:
I agree with you.
What I don’t see is a way to make a lot of that happen in our current atmosphere. It should, it’s way, way past time.
But how do we make those changes and make them stick politically?
lurkypants
@Ruckus: most of it has to do with getting rid of the filibuster. And the NRA really isn’t as strong as it used to be, what with the bankruptcies, so it shouldn’t be that big of a lift to get the votes in line. Congresscritters are probably getting more money from anti-gun groups than they are from the NRA, and frankly, those suburban moms everyone’s chasing for votes don’t really like having to send their kids off to do live shooter drills.
Biden’s people will find a way to frame this in the most boring, yet stealth-progressive, way possible.
Ruckus
@lurkypants:
I’d really like you to be right.
I just don’t see it.
Being proven wrong would be wonderful.
trnc
Well, anxious to find answers that don’t involve preventing the actual problem, anyway.
Matt McIrvin
@Mustang Bobby: I’m pretty sure I have shopped at that particular King Soopers too, but it was over 30 years ago.
rikyrah
10 dead.
he had a weapon of death.
domestic terrorist?
jnfr
Just getting vaccinations and I was really looking forward to doing my own shopping again.
And how do I think now about paying people to shop for me?
And this strange thought, after a Twitter thread talking about how so many people now are always looking for the exits when they go in a building, and I realized something I had not quite seen before. Ever since Aurora, which was the horrific shooting in Colorado in a theater that you might recall, ever since then when I go in a theater I’ve always looked to check out the exits. And in the back of my mind I’m thinking what I would do if someone came in with guns.
It’s weird because it’s clear in my mind but I hardly noticed it before. Took for granted I’d be watching the exits.
dww44
@Matt McIrvin: Could someone explain the name of the grocery store, if there is one? I’ve never encountered the name before and find it so unique that there has to be a rational or historical explanation for it.
VeniceRiley
@lurkypants: All that and, like cars, expensive insurance that increases expotentially from sedan revolver to Lamborgini AR.
bad or impaired driver? Um… unlucky! Insurance companies would make bank but they are merciless enforcers.
karen marie
@HumboldtBlue: No, thanks.
different-church-lady
@Starfish: I was hanging out at Daily Kos during the Boston Marathon bombings. I live about a mile from where Asshole #2 accidentally ran over his brother Asshole #1 and the hid in a boat that got riddled with about 15 thousand rounds from every LEO whithin 3 hours driving distance. During that week nobody knew if there were more bombs, and that whole day the entire metro Boston area basically hid in their houses because there were murderous assholes with bombs driving around carjacking and killing poor campus police.
And a whole lot of non-Bostonians on Daily Kos wrote a whole lot of stupid shit telling the world exactly what the people of Boston ought to be thinking and feeling about all this.
The pinnacle was when it became evident that no cemetery in the area was willing to take Asshole #1’s body. And a recently minted hyper-liberal DK front-page rising star in the Shawn King mold decided it was time to scold Boston for not embracing some kind of misguided hippy shit about every soul deserving a proper burial, no matter how monsterous.
And about 900 comments into that pie fight, (with me being the only one asking, “Hey, is anyone gonna ask Bostonians how they feel about this thing they actually experienced?”) Kos himself shut the whole argument down with a very blunt, “Dump his body in a river, I don’t give a shit about him.”
And that was the last thing rising star ever wrote for DK. Not even another comment on his own thread.
La Nonna
@lurkypants: Amen to that
Connor
@dww44:
Check out https://www.cpr.org/show-segment/where-did-the-sooper-in-the-king-soopers-name-come-from/ for the story.
Basically, Lloyd King founded the chain in Arvada in 1947. That’s the “King” part. The “Soopers” as a deliberate misspelling for “super” (as in “supermarket”) is purportedly due to King’s son Larry being a big ARCHIE comics fan. It is claimed that he told his dad “Sooper!” was what the comic characters said when something exciting happened.
Booger
@Eunicecycle: I’ll tell you why. That would assume that police, unlike every other human being walking this planet, are rational people. But they’ve grown up marinated in the same nonsense we all have, and as a self-selecting group, probably more than most of us. See the ‘better to be judged by twelve than carried by six’ mindset.
Probably another unintended consequence of the ‘war on
drugspeople of color.’Booger
Why can’t homeowner’s insurance take on the whole gun thing? Congress gave the manufacturers impugnity (or immunity, whichever you prefer), but if I want State Farm to hold my hand and dance with me, I have to be pretty honest with them about what they’re insuring and what exposure they’re facing. And if I get tricky with what I tell them, they can tell me to pound sand.
So they ask me about guns and I say “What guns? Moi?” and then my unacknowledged handgun kills someone, I lose my house and everything in it because they won’t cover my omission. Seems like that’s a pretty heavy disincentive to own a gun when your incentive is to protect what you own.
I accept the disconnect between this comment and my previous comment about folks acting rational. A boy can hope, though.
Elizabelle
@Eunicecycle: The police leadership used to be against cop killer bullets. Then, with the NRA becoming a frontjob for whackjobs, suddenly that was no longer a problem.
Cop killer bullets.
@Booger: Register and insure. And insist the guns be kept locked away. Parents and grandparents and neighbors do need to go to prison, for a long time, for children and others who find the guns and kill or injure themselves or others. Kids are inquisitive. Protect them.
We should not let the paranoid whackjobs who own arsenals make our policy. Yes, we should have a list of who owns what weapons. Civilized societies do that.
And I like your suggestion of severe financial penalties, including losing one’s house — because a house is still worth less, morally, than a life. Lives are irreplaceable.