I hate to write another New York sexual harassment post, but Rep. Tom Reed (R-NY-23), who was accused of groping a woman in a story that dropped Friday, apologized yesterday and announced he wasn’t going to run in 2022. When’s the last time that happened? (A quick apology from a Republican, not a Republican groping a woman.) Reed said he entered rehab the year the incident happened, and he walked back an earlier statement denying the incident.
He also announced that he won’t challenge Mario’s kid. In the same vein, I’d like to announce that I will neither be donning an invisibility cloak to sneak out of Hogwarts, nor will I be traveling to Mordor to throw a ring into the fires of Mt. Doom.
In other New York news, Andrew Cuomo is still governor, and the count of women who’ve accused him rose to five Friday afternoon.
oldster
Here’s what I wrote on this morning’s open thread — sorry for repeating myself, but your new post is the right place to say it.
Great news about the downfall of Tom Reed. He was growing to be a major player in Republican politics, and he would have made the world a worse place.
He does not have the charisma to win national elections — in fact, I doubt he would have won the NYS governorship, even against a wounded Cuomo.
But he is smart, ruthless, and thoroughly immoral, in the Mitch Mcconnell mode. Mitch did not rise through his charisma and good looks, either. But he is cunning and vicious, and wins victories for his party.
That’s where Reed was headed, and now he’ll have to do it as a lobbyist or apparatchik, not as an elected official.
Why did he jump? Why did he not just brazen it out? We can rule out the workings of conscience or morals — he has none. But, when there’s one case, you can bet there’s more. And, I am sure that the GOP leadership was leaning on him not to take pressure off Cuomo. They want to pretend to care about sexual assault for the purpose of attacking Cuomo. They wanted Cuomo out more than they wanted Reed in.
He’ll remember that, and knife a fellow Republican when he can one day. But otherwise, he’ll be a loyal foot soldier for the GOP, and be rewarded for it.
Fine. F*** him. Better that he is out of office.
WereBear
A lot of people have been saying, “Surely there’s another competent Democrat in the state of New York who can run for Governor.”
Don’t call me Shirley.
I’m a rowdy Democrat and my partner is even more so, but we keep voting for Andrew Cuomo in the general because Republicans are reliably much worse and less competent, and the challenger from the left says all the right things but tends to not have much in the way of experience and knowledge.
Since one of the reasons I fled to NY from all the areas I was raised in because I wanted to experience competent governance, I can’t throw that away if I’m not given a real choice in the next governor’s race.
Now, if it’s Cuomo’s bullying ways that keep competence from challenging him, and this will weaken him enough to change that equation: bring it on.
Frodo
That would of course be Mordor, not Modor.
WaterGirl
@Frodo: If anyone would know, it’s you.
Dog Mom
This was one of the republicans that participated in the ‘skinny dipping in the Dead Sea’ incident a few years back, IIRC. Sorry for any mental images that provokes this morning.
Alison Rose
Why are men.
Brachiator
I ask again why the main remedy to sexual harassment allegations should be resignation or removal from office?
And should all harassment be considered the same thing? Aren’t there degrees of criminal assault?
Reed was accused of groping, and the reports are that he tried to unhook a woman’s bra and fondle her leg. This is assault by any reasonable standard.
Were Cuomo’s actions the same?
Zero sum intolerance for all forms of sexual harassment is mindless outrage, not a rational ethical standard.
I also appreciate that some believe that anything that gets rid of Reed and Cuomo is good. They are not using morality as a fig leaf to disguise purely political motivation.
Amir Khalid
I think the John Lee Hooker classic goes, “Boom boom boom boom“.
Elizabelle
Suspect that one of the reasons Reed has made such a “heartfelt” apology to the woman is to draw a comparison between himself and A. Cuomo — replete with pledging to seek treatment for alcohol abuse.
However, Cuomo is still a more competent and humane state executive, even given the rising number of women coming forward. So: see right through Reed, and glad that he is stepping away from politics, for however long that may be.
@oldster: and @ WereBear: interesting comments.
FWIW, I remained a strong supporter of Virginia’s Governor Northam when the blackface allegations arose because the behavior in question occurred decades before, and Northam has a really good record WRT his treatment of others in the years since. He was not one of your problem Army officers (and a pediatric neurosurgeon, to boot). Was never on the “oh noes! You must go, immediately!” train. Actually, I was glad that one blew up in so many politicians’ faces. That holds for AG Mark Herring, too. (I think he dressed up as a rapper in college? Anyway, also an excellent political record. People do stupid things, and the good ones grow up and past that stuff. In the Virginia cases, this was behavior from 1984 and 1984, respectively, and no racially insensitive behavior in years since; actually, quite inclusive politics.)
Andrew Cuomo is a worse problem, though, because the behavior has happened more recently and while he was governor. People can be so divided against themselves; I think it’s possible he can treat his own daughters and loved ones with respect but treat others badly. We saw this with Arnold Schwarzenegger, too. (Note: does not include respecting longterm marital vows, for either of them.)
Anyway, I hope New York has a lot of competent and experienced Democrats who can step forward, and hope there are some women as serious contenders, too.
jeffreyw
@Amir Khalid: Let’s ask the Major about that.
NotMax
Try as I might cannot work up enough energy to raise my interest in the Cuomo saga to zero.
BlueNC
@Amir Khalid: I’m not proud of this, but I immediately went to this “classic”:
Boom Boom Boom
Let’s go back to my room
So we can do it all night
And you can make me feel right
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boom_Boom_(Let%27s_Go_Back_to_My_Room)
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
@Frodo: Thanks, fixed
The Moar You Know
@Amir Khalid: You got it right. Hey, was gonna tell you, if you like the hollowbody thing but the size of a 335 is a bit offputting, try out a 339. My guitar player got one of those before the plague struck. MONSTER guitar; one of the best I’ve ever played and I’ve played quite a few of them.
Also, if the clones don’t bug you, try Harley Benton. Same factory as all the Epiphone stuff, but they have incredible distribution (through Thomann) and their prices are reasonable. The only place they don’t sell most of their stuff is the US.
Hope all’s well, guitar slinger.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled Cuomo bashing. Gotta say I feel the same way about Newsom, but like Cuomo, he ain’t leaving, so I guess I gotta keep voting for the sack of shit.
Another Scott
@Brachiator:
I don’t think that’s the right question.
I think the question has to be: Are the allegations serious and credible enough to damage a politician’s effectiveness (via distraction or via loss of support among colleagues)?
If a politician is spending half (or more) of their time answering questions or doing damage control, then they aren’t doing the job they were elected to do. And they’re damaging their colleagues and reducing their effectiveness, too.
Cuomo crossed that threshold a long time ago. He needs to go.
Will he tough it out and stay and be a drag on the ticket in the next election? Maybe. He shouldn’t though. At a minimum he should announce soon that he will not seek re-election.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Another Scott: Yeah. I totally hope Cuomo decides to forego a re-election bid. Would guess he may have decided on that, but stubbornly not making the announcement yet to hold off being a lame, as well as badly wounded, duck.
What is this doing to his daughters? He should consider them.
NotMax
@BlueNC
Then there’s Boom Boom Room. The less said about the fashions, the better.
:)
Steve in the ATL
Republican politicians seem to come in three flavors:
jeffreyw
Please don’t ask Raven about the phrase “Hey GI! You want boom boom?”
NotMax
@Steve in the ATL
4. Ignorami Maxima.
Elizabelle
I’m actually more concerned about this. I don’t think we should have a federal death penalty, except for the absolute worst of the worst. Like treason. Personally, I would have left Timothy McVeigh to rot in prison. Have never, ever agreed with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev’s death sentence, given his youth and the sway his brother held over him. It seems wrong to me that prosecutors have to select a “death qualified” juror panel, because that is already exclusionary WRT the community.
Also, look at how TFG and Barr went on an execution rampage after TFFG lost re-election. Because they could. I felt especially terrible for the first condemned to die in that run of deaths, because he was so young when the crime was committed (18, maybe??), was not the shooter, and had honestly repented and was a model prisoner. He died a better man than either TFG or Barr, but that is little consolation.
The Supremes have taken it up. That is troubling.
Villago Delenda Est
@jeffreyw: “Me so horny!”
Or is that reserved for Marines?
cain
Speaking of men uncanceling themselves – Richard Stallman the founder of the Free Software Foundation and GNU (the guy who actually started open source) and was chased out of his position on the board just announced he’s back on the board and he’s not planning to ever quit again.
This is guy is a tech bro’s tech bro. A misogynist asshole – the board has been wanting for him to come back after an incident that took place two years ago. They are basically in the “we are fucking around, let’s find out what happens” territory.
Villago Delenda Est
@cain: I know someone who dated RMS. She was not very impressed.
jeffreyw
@Villago Delenda Est: No Reservations! – Not just a show title.
cain
@Steve in the ATL:
Which one does Gaetz fall into?
BlueNC
@NotMax: That looks totally normal…for 80s music videos…
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: While true, it is also important to note that any one of them can masquerade as any one of the others.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
The death penalty is justice gone awry, period.
Even in the U.S., execution for treason is not the norm.
Hildebrand
It’s to the point that I just want Cuomo to go away – be that resignation, or a big splashy announcement that he will not be running for anything ever again. Either way works for me. I have never liked him, because he is exactly the type of male politician that needs to disappear forever – brusque, misogynist, loyal only to himself, smug, power-mad, thinks he is far more clever than he actually is, and doesn’t actually get much done. (Oh, look, most of the Republican caucus.)
I am sick and tired of politicians who don’t actually want to be public servants. I know, I know – look at all of history – but it seems we are particularly afflicted with cretins chasing political power for completely selfish reasons. Yes, I know I am being ‘naive’, but I am sick of ‘realism’ being our default setting – I’d like to think that we can be better than pure self-interest.
germy
@Alison Rose:
Many of us are simply no good.
Steve in the ATL
@cain: 1, unless he’s a really clever 3. Though as Omnes notes supra, many 2’s masquerade as 1’s.
Amir Khalid
@The Moar You Know:
I know of Harley Benton; it’s a well-regarded Thomann house brand. What has put me off buying Harley Benton is that the guitars are made in Asia, shipped to Thomann in Germany, and then shipped to customers worldwide. Germany is much farther away than China, so I’d pay a lot extra for shipping and a huge carbon footprint.
cain
Yikes.. he’s so gross.. when he’s interested in you – he gives you some kind of business card a ‘love card’ or something like that. Just gross. ew. ew. ew.
The gal is super brave to date the guy – of course he’s famous and/or notorious so I get why there would be a kind of attraction – but this is a man in the middle of a talk, picked his toe and then ate whatever it was he picked in the middle of a keynote. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.
raven
@jeffreyw: Numbah one!
cain
@Steve in the ATL:
Could be a trifecta. A full flush if you will. I think Majorie is also all three.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
ME EITHER
raven
@germy: It’s the testosterone vs oxytocin dilemma. Ken Wilber referred to it as “fuck it or kill it”.
Elizabelle
@NotMax: Thank you. Looks like an interesting article. For later.
Mild, sunny weather. The little Frenchie next door wants to take me for a walk soon.
oatler.
@Amir Khalid:
He can be seen playing it in Maxwell Street in “The Blues Brothers.”
jeffreyw
@raven: Joe! Give baby-san chop chop?
raven
Much of human behavior is influenced by hormones. There’s cortisol, involved in our stress response and energy balance. Testosterone, a male sex hormone, tends to make men more competitive. Oxytocin has various social and physiological functions in the brain and the body, but is sometimes referred to as the “love hormone” due to its role in social bonding. These are all simplifications, but hormones do underlie many aspects of what we do and what we feel.
M31
and that old Beethoven classic too
raven
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
It was always my understanding that Tamerlan was the mastermind, and Johar* was just the accomplice.
*This is how we spell that name in Malaysia. Those superfluous Ds, Zs and Ks hurt my eyes.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
I ask again why the main remedy to sexual harassment allegations should be resignation or removal from office?
I think this is a good question, but not the only one.
And what standard shall we use to determine “serious enough?”
Omnes Omnibus
@M31: Related.
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: That’s what I think. It is complete overreach to sentence Johar to death.
FTF Supremes if they restore the sentence. Maybe they will surprise me, all those “good Catholics” on that Court.
The Moar You Know
@Amir Khalid: Looks like around $60 USD for shipping from Thomann to Malaysia. I pay half that for domestic shipping from Nashville to CA. More than that for shipping from Thomann to the states.
I am a bit surprised that they’d go to Germany first. Wiser to just drop ship from China/Korea straight to Malaysia, I would think. But I gather they do set them up in Germany, and given what I’ve seen of some of the stuff coming out straight from the factories in China, they need that.
Oh well. Your hollowbody will come. They’re a special breed of fun. I have a Godin archtop, just acoustic, no pickups, although I may add an end-of-fingerboard one of these days. Not a guitar I play a lot but when I do I always have a good time.
Check out a 339 if you can. I was smitten. Hopefully you won’t be lol.
Brachiator
@raven:
I thought that men and women both produce testosterone, or at least similar hormones.
And in mammal species, both males and females fight and are driven to mate. Levels of aggression vary. Female hyenas are more aggressive than males.
Frankensteinbeck
@raven:
That kind of evolutionary philosophy is too simplistic, and really doesn’t work out in practice. It’s also what conservatives use to argue that women are meant to be subservient and raise children. Evolutionary biologists have learned that you can’t trust that kind of reductionism at all. Women in power wage wars and use/abuse that power to get sex, for example. We don’t see it as much purely because social power structures in our society strongly favor men.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: disagree completely. We should not have a death penalty, I’ll state that right up front. Fucking barbarism. End it today.
But if we ARE going to have it, he’s the poster child of someone who absolutely deserves it. He helped build the bombs, he scouted locations, he planted them, and he tried his level best to kill more people getting away. Fuck that guy.
raven
@Frankensteinbeck: I knew people would know more than I did about it. I just thought it was interesting when I read it 25 years ago.
Chief Oshkosh
@cain:
Hopefully the deepest, darkest one.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
And people wonder why people don’t come forward or file official complaints when some one in power over them repeatedly crosses the line, always a little bit more, to see what they can get away with. Put up with the crap or quit your job, such lovely choices.
And now he is interfering in the investigation and having “in-house” attorneys ” interview ” the potential witnesses before they talk to the investigators. Oh gee, THAT’S not going to intimidate anyone into keeping their mouth shut…
Cuomo interfering with AG sexual harassment investigation
“Katz said that the decision to provide attorneys to staffers and accompany them to interviews “will have a chilling effect on potential witnesses or other accusers” who want to cooperate with the probe, but who “fear job-related retaliation if they tell the investigators about the Governor’s sexual harassing behavior and misconduct of those around him.” “
Brachiator
@Elizabelle:
There are some whose crimes are so heinous that I would like to see them executed. But ultimately, I have to come down with Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun:
A beautiful dissent. The entire dissent is worth reading.
cain
@BlueNC: Let’s not forget the bollywood disco hit by Pakistani singer – Nazia Hassan – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wjo1rVbCeY – Boom Boom
Anoniminous
The notion hormone H causes behavior B is obsolete. Things just aren’t that simplistic.
Would that they were; it would make my life a whole bunch easier.
raven
@Anoniminous: OK, Ok, I GET it.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Steve in the ATL:
Forgot one..
4. Authoritarian racists
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: He already said Republican.
germy
My guess is he wants to be a “comeback kid” someday, after he’s spent enough time out of the spotlight. Don’t republicans love comeback stories?
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
And many evolutionary psychologists rush to embrace simplistic reductionism despite being shown time and again how wrong they are. Strange world.
germy
James E Powell
@oldster:
This is true for every Republican.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Never saw this. Thank you. Will read it.
WereBear
@germy: WIN on multiple levels.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Were Cuomo’s actions the same?
I would offer Reed is only accused of one incident while Cuomo’s it’s clearly a pattern of behavior.
But the thing is a Public Figure by definition have no private life so you can’t just tell them save the hanky panky for after work.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: I think everyone should read the New York Magazine article by Rebecca Traister to understand how the cluster of allegations around Cuomo is symptomatic not just to his mistreatment of women, but the creation of an office culture that looks at Cuomo as the sun around which New York should revolve, so that the most important thing is whether Andrew gets credit, and not much else. In other words, no matter how worthwhile, if Cuomo can’t take credit, there’s no reason to do it. Multiple Obama staffers who went to work for Cuomo quit within months because they realized how dysfunctional his office was and how policy took a back seat to considerations of Cuomo’s ego.
Gerrymandering the New York Senate in order to preserve the lock on power by conservaDems and Republicans helped Cuomo play king maker and take credit for “brokering” compromises on things like gay marriage that should not have required any bargaining in a state as D leaning as New York is. His determination to engage in a dick measuring contest with the NYC mayor leads to all kinds of unfair results, especially in the area of school funding.
That he gets off on subjugating women is not necessarily related, but look at how he defends himself: by weaponizing his support of women’s rights to trash his accusers. Surely, it’s time for Cuomo to move on and someone like Preet Bharara or Letitia James to step up.
Brachiator
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Reed was accused of groping, and the reports are that he tried to unhook a woman’s bra and fondle her leg. This is assault by any reasonable standard.
“Pattern of behavior” is pretty vague if you are not clear on what the actual behavior was.
Isn’t this bringing things back to the mindless zero tolerance standard?
germy
https://www.theroot.com/8th-woman-claims-andrew-cuomo-sexually-harassed-her-no-1846526600
germy
@Brachiator:
It’s possible Reed also had a pattern of behavior, it just hasn’t been revealed yet. Usually after a story like this, other women are empowered to come forward with their own stories.
Brantl
@cain: All of them, Katie.
Brachiator
@germy:
Reed appeared to have committed a physical sexual assault. Removing a woman’s bra and fondling her leg is an assault. It is a disgusting physical violation. It is criminal assault.
I don’t know that you need a “pattern of behavior” here, except if you wanted to enhance a possible prison sentence.
Cuomo should be investigated. But should it be clear as to what he did? And should there be levels of punishment depending on the offense?
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
if there were a god, John would have outlived Jim by decades
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Please don’t call this hanky-panky. Some things don’t belong in the workplace. Making suggestive comments to people you have a lot of power over, asking invasive, personal questions about someones sex life, expecting any young, attractive (and in this case female) workers in your office to put up with hugging, kissing, squeezing, unasked for shoulder massages, as part of the “office culture” . I spent 20 years in the Navy, I am very familiar with the “you are making a big deal out of nothing, it’s just guys being guys, shut up unless you want to get the crap duty” bullshit. Same shit, different day.
Another Scott
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: +1
The old saw of “Would it be Ok if Fled Cruz or Moscow Mitch were doing it to your son/daughter/spouse/grandchild?” is something that these monsters apparently never considered.
Grrr…
Keep telling your story. It’s important.
Cheers,
Scott.
jonas
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: Agreed. What Cuomo did was the very definition of creating a hostile work environment for female employees. Imagine having to go into work each day and steeling yourself for when the governor was going to walk by your desk, tell you your rack looks great in that sweater and then ask whether you got laid this weekend. Ugh.
laura
@Steve in the ATL: I missed your question in the podcast thread last night. I worked for a traditional craft Union as a business agent. It has a 4 year apprenticeship program on the private sector side and also included a blue collar skilled to semi skilled public sector side. We struck over wages, pension contribution and health care. No budging on any weakening of the multiemployer plans – and the workers were not replaceable by scabs. The apprenticeship program opens biannually and the line of applicants has averaged over a half mile. If you can get into the program and get an employer sponsor it’s one hell of a good career. The last picket line I walked was a strike at an employer in Marin County. I logged 13 miles on the first 10 hour shift and I listened to Patrick Radden Keefe’s Say Nothing twice and a ton of other stuff. My hips are shot.
Barbara
@Brachiator: If “zero tolerance” is mindless, can you tell me how much sexual harassment women should be expected to put up with in the office? For the most part we are not talking about things happening in Cuomo’s personal life, but how he treated women in a professional capacity — women who worked in his office or as lobbyists or as officials in state agencies. Not just one or two women, but more than five women, many incidents, and not just the incidents themselves, but retaliation against them when they complained. So to me, at least in this case, saying that “zero tolerance” is mindless sounds an awful lot like creating a straw man argument in a situation where the number of incidents is way greater than the number one.
Brachiator
@Barbara:
I have never said, suggested or implied that women should have to put up with or accept any level of sexual harassment.
Not at any time in any post about any person, whether a politician or ordinary citizen.
But I do not believe that resignation or termination should automatically be the first or only remedy with respect to sexual harassment allegations.
One of the reasons we know that zero tolerance is mindless is that conservatives love it. Makes them feel like they are tough on crime.
There may be cases where a single incident is sufficient to seek a politician’s removal from office. But shouldn’t it depend on what the incident actually might be?
tam1MI
I will support removing Andrew Cuomo from office as long as I am given an ironclad guarantee that his replacement will not be a republican whose first act in office will be to pardon Donald Trump for all crimes committed in the state of New York.
Miss Bianca
@Barbara: I don’t know about Rebecca Traister…has she ever come out and said, “oops, I was wrong about Tara Reade, guess I shouldn’t have jumped on that bandwagon”? Because if she hasn’t, I don’t care whether her sources include Jesus, Buddha, and the Archangel Gabriel – I find I can’t trust her as a reporter the way I used to.
ETA: Which isn’t to say she’s wrong in this case…unlike with Joe Biden, I have no trouble believing that Andrew Cuomo is capable of creating a toxic work environment. I’m just a little more skeptical about Traister as a source for this information than I might have been otherwise.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Isn’t there a contradiction between saying that “no woman should have to put up with sexual harassment” and “the punishment should depend on the actual issue”?
What punishment can be applied to a sitting Governor except removal? There’s no mechanism to put them on leave without pay or force them to get counseling or make them take redial training or similar.
Shouldn’t we demand more from officials given high office and public trust?
Yes, this stuff can be and has been weaponized. An isolated remark made in anger or a dress-up stunt in school 25 or 50 years ago shouldn’t be disqualifying if that’s all there is. But contemporaneous actions should and must have consequences.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
@Miss Bianca: I agree that Traister’s opinion of a set of facts can be problematic, not to say slanted, because she sees the world through a certain lens that she seems to have trouble getting past. In the case of Cuomo, I will say that she talked to many people beyond the specific women who have been mentioned elsewhere in the press and tried hard, I think, to make the case on Cuomo’s deficiencies overall, and not just based on how women are being treated. The thing is, no one is really surprised by this but they feared retaliation to such a degree that they were afraid to speak on the record.
@Brachiator: Yep, it should totally matter. And I am not a fan of boxing people into resigning no matter what the facts ultimately show. It’s neither rational nor just. But I don’t think Cuomo should run again. And yeah, I do think that leaping right to criticizing zero tolerance without regard to underlying facts is also a problem.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
I think you are nearly totally correct — no surprise that you caught that, you guitar collector, you! John Lee Hooker is (was) a greatly gifted person, also too. I made a tiny change, though.
J R in WV
@cain:
OMG!!! I have always respected his tech abilities, but that’s revolting and disgusting. Will never shake hands with that guy, ever, never, no reason ever! O M G !! Yuck~!~
How did you hear that, anyhoo?
ETA: No, never mind, don’t wanna know… Ick!