Is there any interest in talking about the Sunday shows?
I haven’t watched them since 2009. For awhile, there was some guy/blog who summarized the Sunday shoes, with a lot of attitude, and that made it fun to keep up (at best) and tolerable (at worst).
Who’s the “daddy” of Sunday shows now that Tim Russert is gone? Please tell me it’s not Press the Meat.
Are Dems are getting better representation on the Sunday shows now that Biden is in office?
Who’s on today’s shows? What’s being discussed – conronavirus, insurrection, Trump’s legal team? Are republicans being called out for their lies? Or, is it possible that they are not lying? No, never mind, that last one wasn’t a serious question.
Or is it all UNITY, all the time?
Open thread.
cokane
the daddy, so to speak, is chuck todd, just fyi
RaflW
Is the booking ratio still 3:1 R:D?
Because if so, who gives a flying fuck
I mean, really, the Sunday shows have been genuine, reckless contributors to the Newtification of national politics.
SFAW
The Bobblespeak Translations, maybe?
WaterGirl
@RaflW: It only matters if the Sunday shows still control the narrative in the media for the next week. It matters if we are starting to get the word out. And sadly, it matters if we are still not able to do that.
Jeffro
GOP Rep Kinzinger starts a new PAC expressly to oppose trumpists(!)
WOW
Also (as many have already noted)…Mr. Innocent just lost his entire defense team, a week before his impeachment trial. L to the OL
Ain’t it great, being on the right…er…progressive side of history? =)
Mai Naem mobile
I see George Steph, Tapper and Chris Wallace creating more headlines than MTP anymore. I would bet Chris Wallace’s stock will fall because Orange Dbag and his people wouldn’t go anywhere else.
Baud
I miss Saturday morning cartoons. Sunday news shows, not so much.
Jeffro
@WaterGirl: I don’t think they control much of anything, anymore.
Somewhat related: even my RWNJ dad has stopped watched them, they’re all “too liberal” (translation: they occasionally have someone from the Left on a panel or being interviewed, and that’s of course just unbearable)
He’s also stopped watching “Pretend” Republican Chris Wallace, LOL
It’s all collapsing around their heads, and I am HERE for it.
RaflW
I guess there is the very rare moment of sanity, but I don’t think, on balance, it’s worth it.
WaterGirl
@SFAW: Yes!
RaflW
@WaterGirl: I know it matters. It pisses me off that they do such a shit job.
eta: I didn’t get enough sleep last night, I’m only 1/4 of the way through this morning’s pot of coffee (here in mountain time), and I am crabby. Not at you, but at our broken g.d. politics and press.
WaterGirl
@RaflW: I’m with you on that!
WaterGirl
@RaflW: I spent yesterday feeling crabby about everything. And nothing. I feel you.
debbie
@Jeffro:
I wish him luck in his effort; it would benefit everyone. I wish him zero luck in getting more GOPers into Congress.
Starfish
I have never watched this boring stuff. From Twitter, it looks like the Sunday shows are about taking this Republican $160 billion COVID-19 proposal very, very seriously. It also looks like the Republicans are being asked “Do you want to bathe the warm glow of Marjorie Taylor Greene’s crazy, or would you like to use this opportunity to distance yourself from it?” They want to bathe in the warm glow of the crazy.
Leto
I see BJ After Dark started waaaaaaay early today.
WereBear
Back in the day (creaky porch rocker, calling people “whippersnappers,” pet the cat) the Sunday shows were one of the rare TV outlets for political junkies.
Now, we’re up to our jugulars in content of every possible hue.
When I was a child, a conscientious citizen watched the weekday evening news, 22 minutes…
Ivan X
I miss the McLaughlin Report. That show was a) batshit insane and b) did away with any pretense that these shows, and most TV news in general, are anything more than entertainment, which I felt was a more honest approach.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
Haha. Mr. Bogus me!
dexwood
Is there any interest in talking about the Sunday shows?
I’d rather eat a bug.
Jeffro
@debbie: hopefully it’ll be quite jarring to the GOP – Kinzinger is a 2010 Tea Party Republican. Up until now, the only thing trumpov’s supporters (fervent or tacit) have been able to picture…other than supporting trumpov…is joining the Dems. Now they have a concrete example of how to be a non-trumpov-supporting conservative.
Should split the party quite nicely ;)
RaflW
@Ivan X: The SNL spoof was great (or my rose-colored memory of it, anyway – here’s how it plays in my head).
John McL: “Eleanor, Gee We Think You’re Swellinor, what was the most important story of the week?”
Eleanor Clift: “John, it was the announcement by …”
John (cutting her off): “WRONG!”
And so on. It was a hoot. I remember being very surprised that SNL thought enough of their viewers would even get the joke!
p.a.
I’m partial to NCIS New Orleans. Preferred it in its original Tues spot.
Has anyone in any of the NCIS shows responded, when badge-flashed, “NCIS? What the [fuck] is that?”?
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
Loved that site! I used to read it religiously. Not sure when or why I stopped.
Jeffro
@Ivan X: that’s a good point. Sometimes I wonder just how much damage McLaughlin, ‘Crossfire’, and the like did with their circus-like, shouty, stupid, soundbite-y nonsense.
Then again, there are so many other democracy-damaging things to choose from over the past 20-30 years, it’s hard to pick…
WaterGirl
@Starfish: They can say “bipartisanship” all day long and turn in a circle 3 times, but this is not a serious offer and the Dems will talk with them and then proceed with reconciliation.
If we can turn things around, no one will give a fuck about whether Biden/Dems played hard-ass or not. Results are what the country needs to get things turned around, and results are what we need in order to win in 2022. Nothing else matters.
RaflW
@dexwood: If you’re anywhere near Houston, you may be in luck (heard about this from my brother – who has not tried it).
Just Chuck
@Jeffro: I remember when Jon Stewart hammered a stake through Crossfire. My favorite bit: “You’re on CNN. The show leading into me is puppets making crank phone calls. What is wrong with you?”
Just Chuck
@RaflW: Lobsters and crabs are basically giant sea bugs.
Baud
@Just Chuck:
Yeah, but then Stewert lost the plot.
Lyrebird
@cokane: Well if Chuck Todd is still getting that much airplay, I am glad I watched Twitter instead, and learned about a few peoples views on ball hammock pouch underwear.
The people I shop for who would possibly be in the market for these undies have many years to go before they would fit into it, and it is still more relevant to my life than what Chuck Todd thinks.
I have a higher opinion of him than of Chris Cilizza, but that’s true about pond scum, too.
Thank you anyone listening to me be a grump.
mrmoshpotato
@Just Chuck: Ah yes. Fucker Carlson…
WaterGirl
@dexwood: A friend of mine used to say that he would rather drill holes in metal than a play a game.
Last Sunday the Garden Chat was the last post for 9 or 10 hours, and people complained that there were no politics threads on Sunday, so this was my attempt at responding to that. Sounds like a swing and a miss as far as you are concerned.
dexwood
@RaflW: I’ll pass this on to a cousin living there. I will admit to having tried dried ants and caterpillars once. The ants were like eating ashes, Don’t remember anything about the caterpillars. Beer and tequila may have been involved.
Hungry Joe
@Jeffro: I wonder if Trump even needs lawyers for his impeachment trial. He can ignore all requests for info, etc., and offer no defense, and the GOP Senators will still vote to acquit. It’d play well with his base: “I do not recognize this farce, and I will not dignify it with a response of any kind.” In shorter, capitalized words, of course.
debbie
@Ivan X:
Last night, NBC ran an old rerun @ 10 pm which included a parody of that show (Dana McCarvey was McLaughlin, Phil Hartman was Pat Buchanan, etc.). Totally hilarious!
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: I assumed that the site had stopped. No?
taumaturgo
If you ever in the area, a visit to enjoy the delicacies of Mexican cuisine is a must. Also, consider a visit to Hugo run by the same owner.
Steeplejack (phone)
@p.a.:
There have been a few times. But fewer than the times that I have said, “How do they get jurisdiction on this?!” Dramatic license.
WaterGirl
@Baud: That, he did. A sad day.
Immanentize
Is it Sunday again?
RaflW
@WaterGirl: Indeed the only way to get anything done this biennium will be the hard assed way. The shots fired across Manchin & Sinema’s bows, as blogged here last night, is part of that.
If Joe and Kamala do this well, and I think they can!, they’ll have an advantage that I think the Fox-screamers haven’t grasped. Yes the RW echo chamber amplifies their message a ton. But it is still narrow-casting (even with FB and other platforms echoing the nonsense).
Using local news in conjunction with the major networks and big national daily papers/sites, the reach is far bigger, and less sensational. Show ’em getting shit done.
Reject Mitch’s paeans to a Senate ‘processes’ that he already broke anyway. Dems will have to push reconciliation heavily, and hammer the GOP for failing to do other policy work that would help everyday Americans get by in this long-form crisis.
Jeffro
@Hungry Joe: somehow I can’t picture him not responding (or responding that briefly)
What I can see is a clown show beyond parody on one side, while the House impeachment managers on the other side remind the country that a trumpov-incited mob stormed the Capitol, looking to hang Mike Pence and shoot Nancy Pelosi.
I think this one’s going to get more than 55 votes to convict…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl:
Some of us are grateful, even if on this particular Sunday I’m trying to get my shit together to get out of the house so I’m going to try not to get sucked in….. We’ll see how that goes
And Jonathan Capeheart has a Sunday show where guests today have included Susan Rice, Donna Edwards, and Connie Schultz, and in which Susan Molinari– who used to be one of my favorite Republicans to mock– just predicted the end of the Republican party as we know it. Who wants to tell her it wasn’t that great before trump, and he’s owned it lock, stock and barrel since they all decided to let him grift openly before he was even inaugurated.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: If it’s Sunday… it’s the Garden Chat. That’s how I think of Sundays, anyway.
dexwood
@WaterGirl:
Nah, not complaining. You do a great job around here, watergirl. I’m comfortable scrolling past posts that don’t interest me. Something else always comes along.
gwangung
No matter WHAT Dems do, 45% of the country will scream and holler “Dictatorship!”
So screw them and do what you have the power to do anyway.
Jeffro
@RaflW: Harris going to both WV and AZ was a bold move. Sinema and Manchin better realize that yes, they can be their own kind of Dem in their own states, but by and large they will rise or fall with the Democratic Party’s fortunes, meaning the Biden presidency.
lapassionara
@RaflW: Wasn’t that where “Jane, you ignorant slut” came from?
RaflW
@Just Chuck: There’s a reason crawfish are called mud bugs. And, they’re delish!
lapassionara
@WaterGirl: Thanks for starting this thread. Not a swing and a miss for me.
WaterGirl
@dexwood: Plus, it does say open thread, so talk about what you want, and there’s a good chance the thread comments will follow.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
Quite likely, but I have a sense I drifted away from the site before the site drifted away from me.
WaterGirl
@lapassionara: Am I crazy, or did you lose your capital L?
RaflW
@lapassionara: That was Point-Counterpoint, a regular feature on SNL’s Weekend Update. It was a nice sendup of regular news shows trying out a sort of ‘debate’ short-form in that era.
Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd. That was some hall of fame comedy.
SiubhanDuinne
@Immanentize:
You can’t tell from all the pretty flowers downstairs?
cope
@Ivan X: NBC ran a 1990 episode of SNL last night. One of the skits we watched was a parody of McLaughlin’s show (which, amazingly is still on PBS). That’s probably as close as I will get to watching one of the Sunday morning wank fests
Edited to add that I just saw debbie beat me to the SNL reference.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Looks like Bobblespeak Translations croaked in Jan 2017. :-(
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lapassionara: Jane [Curtain] you ignorant, misguided slut was Dan Ackroyd on Weekend Update, parodying someone even I’m too young to remember.
The McLaughlin spoof was Dana Carvey, and McLaughlin himself showed up to join in. He was definitely in the “there’s no such thing as bad attention” club.
Barbara
@Jeffro:
Kinzinger’s motivation appears to be the dawning realization that people under 30 are abandoning Christianity, at least partly because too many professed Christians have turned Republican politics, and now Trump, into their God.
SiubhanDuinne
@lapassionara:
Similar. I think that was SNL’s take on 60 Minutes’ “Point Counterpoint” feature.
realbtl
OT- I got a call at 8:15 this morning scheduling my first cv jab on Tuesday. I’m 72 and in NW Montana.
WaterGirl
@Barbara: That’s an interesting thought… what makes you think that is his motivation?
WaterGirl
@realbtl: Congratulations!
Hungry Joe
@Jeffro: I suspect you’re right about the clown show, but I can’t see more than five (+/-1) Republicans voting to convict. What’s in it for them, other than a primary challenge and some death threats?
Tenar Arha
Crooks and Liars has a weekly summary of who will be on teh Sunday Showz called the Sunday Morning Bobblehead Thread.
This week’s https://crooksandliars.com/2021/01/sunday-morning-bobblehead-thread-3
I’m not aware of anyone who’s doing regular weekly roundups anymore. But it’s clear, even MSNBC with two new hosts replacing Joy Reid, they’re still “GOP” heavy bc of all the Never Trump/Lincoln Project commentators.
ETA I try not to pay attention to teh Showz, but yes, they do still have an effect on the weekly news topics. Though there does seem to be more pushback. AFAICT the pushback just makes teh old guard punditz think “if I’m pissing off both sides I’m doing my job real good.”
ETA 2 typos
RaflW
@taumaturgo: Was there around Christmas, and looked at Xochi, but we were only doing takeout and I think food at that level needs to be plated and eaten in house.
So, maybe next winter, assuming that we’d be staying at my brothers while he & his wife are also there (we house-sat while they got tested and podded in with her 80+ y.o. mom out of state).
In stead, we found good tacos to go in the Heights.
SiubhanDuinne
@WaterGirl:
I didn’t know that, but am struck by the date.
schrodingers_cat
Stopped watching the Sunday shows before Obama became President. They are useless.
@Baud: Agreed about Stewart. He turned quite the Broderite after Obama came to power. After his obsequious interviews of torture supporters and proponents like Rumsfeld and Yoo, I stopped taking anything he had to say seriously.
And he was plenty nasty and disrespectful towards both Obama and Pelosi when they were guests on his show.
WaterGirl
@Hungry Joe: The honorable thing to do would be to fight for democracy, which means bucking your own party, which is under the spell of the crazies and the white nationalists. That’s what Kinzinger appears to be doing.
If you don’t have the balls for that, the next honorable thing to do would be to vote to convict, and then resign, because what’s the point of being part of the crazies and white nationalists authoritarian party?
If you don’t have the balls for either of those things, the next honorable thing to do would be to not show up to vote, so at least the democrats – and anyone else who might have the balls that you are missing – can convict T*****.
If you don’t have the balls for any of those things, I don’t know how you get out of bed every morning.
RaflW
@schrodingers_cat: I felt like the rally to restore sanity was a festival of both sides! that just perpetuated the notion that it is some sort of mystery how D.C. could be so broken.
mrmoshpotato
@Jeffro:
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Jan 8, 2017 to be precise. That had not struck me, but of course, that’s obvious.
Maybe he will ramp that up again. Doubtful, maybe, but I would gladly start reading again.
RaflW
@WaterGirl: Maybe they need more supportive underwear!
schrodingers_cat
@RaflW: That was the last straw for me. Stopped watching TDS after that.
Barbara
@WaterGirl: The article published in The Atlantic, which interviewed him after the impeachment vote. He is never going to be on my wavelength politically but he seems genuinely distraught at the impact of divisive politics on religion. I don’t have the link but it’s easy to find.
WaterGirl
@RaflW: You almost got me to click on that :-) but then I imagined underwear ads, and I couldn’t bring myself to do it!
WaterGirl
@Barbara: Thanks. I think I may have read that article, but I either didn’t see that part or it didn’t stick with me.
Ivan X
To all above re McLaughlin SNL parody: I had no idea! I’m going to find that. I also had no idea the show still exists!
mrmoshpotato
@RaflW:
It was.
satby
@dexwood: Right there with you. I watch no “political news” shows at all, and haven’t since the first GWB term. Seldom watched them before. They’ve been a waste of Sunday morning hours for decades.
Hungry Joe
@WaterGirl: Being part of the crazies/white nationalist party makes perfect sense if you’re a crazy white nationalist.
As for a list of most-to-lesser honorable things to do … we’re talking about the GOP Senate, right? The use of the word “honorable” in this context compels me to invoke the Inago Montoya clause.
Sloane Ranger
I don’t know about the rest but during the election and it’s aftermath I watched Inside Politics, the Sunday show with Jake Tapper (can’t remember it’s name) and Reliable Sources on CNN as we get them over here and after the election, as Trump began to ramp up his lies, it became increasingly difficult for them to get Republicans other than Never Trumpers and the odd State Governor (only willing to really talk about COVID-19) to agree to appear.
All the programmes were full of statements to the effect that they had invited X number of Congressional Republicans to appear but they had either refused or not responded.
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: Whoops! Thanks for pointing that out.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Exactly.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara: Interesting. I’m an atheist, but I always think of these people talk so much about their “faith”, who put their hands on a Bible to swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, then voted to acquit trump (among other things) because he had learned his lesson, or there’s an election coming, or the ones like Lamar Alexander, who at least told the truth, thought tax cuts and judges outweighed the law.
Another Scott
@RaflW: The Jane/Dan Point-Counterpoint thing was a parody of the last few minutes feature of 60 Minutes where Shana Alexander and James Kilpatrick would have a “debate” on some topic of the week.
The parody matched the show very, very well…
Cheers,
Scott.
johnnybuck
@WaterGirl: Yeah, but not everybody gardens so it’s nice to have some topical threads.
mrmoshpotato
Sunday Morning Smackdown
C’mon! Ted!
Ken
My favorite parody of McLaughlin was in The Birdcage. Gene Hackman’s senator is watching his appearance on the parody, and it’s five people all screaming at the top of their lungs. He calls it something like “The most intelligent show on television.”
WaterGirl
Has the Firefox released an update to their version 85 that screwed up commenting?
Or are Firefox peeps still having to use the Text tab in order to comment?
Ken
@WaterGirl: My FF is still 85.0, and I use automatic updates for it. Still have to use text tab in FF.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Oddly, it worked on this reply to you, but all my other replies this morning have required going to the text box.
WaterGirl
@Ken: @Omnes Omnibus:
It looks like there’s a version 85.1.1 available, has anyone tried that one?
satby
@mrmoshpotato: I actually stopped in at the Rally to Restore Sanity during a long layover in DC on my way to my Haiti earthquake relief assignment. At the time and to most participants it was a satire fest. With some earnest Schoolhouse Rock type plea for a return to legislating and comity from Stewart (Colbert stayed in character). The original idea that both comedians tried to prove was that the conservative rally previous wasn’t a particular success because with very little effort you can get a crowd to turn out in DC for almost anything, and I think most people have forgotten that was why S&C had even planned it.
And I got to see Yusef perform with Ozzy, so there’s that.
Ivan X
@RaflW: I think centrism is a kind of ideology, or ideal anyway, counterintuitive though that seems. I have a close friend who’s a Clinton-style liberal (who works with a lot of moderate financial-industry type Republicans) and he’s a very smart guy but he, to this day, still fantasizes about that mythical figure who’s going to reach across the aisle and bridge the gaps between the parties. And no matter what Republicans do, “our side is just as bad.” He sees it because he wants to see it, because he holds unity and compromise and agreement as a great ideal. (And it is! If it were possible!)
But this person refuses to see, or chooses not to see, that one side refuses to compromise at all, which drags the center to the right. I can present counterarguments he’ll agree to in the moment, but he’ll quickly forget, because he’s living with a belief system. (I mean, to be fair, I probably do the same thing, but I scrupulously try not to, and like to believe that my beliefs can be changed with the right evidence. But it’s hard to know how much hivemind you have when you live in the hive.)
I suspect that if he were to see things as I think they are in (what I think is) reality, it would require that he alter his identity, which is as a person above being on a “side,” thereby making him a person of independent thought, and person of a higher ideal than partisanship. And humans’ identities are deep within them, and feel scary to change, enough so that I think most of us are willing to distort the information we take in to make it conform to who we think we are. Not all of us can be Cole.
I think Stewart was similarly afflicted, and I think plenty of living-in-comfort center-idealizing liberals are. It’s so important to them to imagine that the system can work with both sides in cooperative harmony that they can’t see that one of them are a bunch of fucking bomb-throwers.
Full disclosure: I went to Stewart’s rally, and enjoyed it. I agreed with its ideal. But I thought it was naïve.
the pollyanna from hell
@WaterGirl:
@WaterGirl:
Still borked, but no updates in my inbox either.
raven
@Just Chuck: There is a great scene in “Tom Horn” (Steve McQueen’s second to last film) where they are having a big outdoor dinner with lobsters and he says something like “I’m not eating that bug!”
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
Most of the time, I have to switch to text mode; but visual mode works intermittently.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
some details of the Republican “good faith” counterproposal on Covid
I saw a clip of GOP Senator, I think Bill Cassidy, snarling on FoxNews about political payback to the teachers’ unions. I assume he means steps to make schools safe to reopen.
MazeDancer
There is no reason to discuss the Sunday Shows.
It would be healthier, more in touch with reality, and more relevant to discuss Rachel and Lawrence nightly. (And not suggesting we do that)
However, there is a nice, new show on Sundays, hosted by Johnathan Capehart, as @Jim, Foolish Literalist: notes.
In that show, Capehart has a segment called “Sunday Sound” where, if anything of note happens earlier in the AM, he plays the clip and has a panel discuss. Watching that segment would be more than enough.
WaterGirl
@the pollyanna from hell:
Looks like 85.1.1 is for android.
https://firefox.en.uptodown.com/android
Is the Text box issue happening only on computers, or on phones and tablets, also?
jonas
It reminds me of the famous experiment where people were briefly shown a photo of a group of people — maybe like 10-12 Caucasians and one black person, or 10-12 men and 1 or 2 women and then asked a few minutes later to recall the proportion of minorities and/or women in the photo and their answers were like “50/50”. So having to watch one Democrat on a show with five Republicans means like, it was totally swamped with socialist propaganda.
Ken
@WaterGirl: FF auto-updates aren’t finding that one. EDIT: I see it’s android only.
jonas
It reminds me of the famous experiment where people were briefly shown a photo of a group of people — maybe like 10-12 Caucasians and one black person, or 10-12 men and 1 or 2 women and then asked a few minutes later to recall the proportion of minorities and/or women in the photo and their answers were like “50/50”. So having to watch one Democrat on a show with five Republicans means like, it was totally swamped with socialist propaganda
ETA: Hmmm — sorry for the double post. Don’t know how that happened!
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why do Republicans hate children and teachers?
dexwood
@WaterGirl: Still screwy for me, desktop machine, Firefox 85. Don’t see an update. Firefox 85 on my android phone works fine.
satby
@Ivan X: Good point, because I think it captures pretty well the dynamic a lot of lower info voters have, abetted by a media that constantly reports “today Congress failed to pass..” when an accurate report would say ” today Republicans on a party line vote blocked passage of… “.
Another Scott
@satby: I was there too. [waves!]
I, and the people I was surrounded by, was/were very, very disappointed when Stewart introduced some big video montage that tried to both-sides American political outrages. (As I recall) It was clear to me that Colbert was doing his character and knew where the problems were, but he seemed to be constrained by Stewart wanting to, somehow, get everyone to recognize that it’s everyone’s fault [/Kevin McCarthy] and we’re all to blame and can’t we all just get along??
He really misread the audience and spoiled an amazing event.
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
@WaterGirl:
The issue is hit or miss but it happens on every device.
RaflW
@WaterGirl: It just links back to an earlier comment in the thread :)
WaterGirl
@jonas: That reminds me of the old joke about the couple who goes in for therapy, and she asks how often they have sex. One says we have sex all the time, 2 or 3 times a week. The other says we hardly ever have sex, only 2 or 3 times a week.
Everything is about perspective. Sadly, republicans these days appear not to have any.
edit: several people have mentioned that this is a scene from Annie Hall.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@lapassionara: No, I think there was a “Point, Counterpoint” segment on 60 Minutes that was the basis for those Aykroyd / Curtin skits.
Hey, the Visual tab works! Has WaterGirl been having a couple sleepless nights duct taping that? @WaterGirl:
Woody Allen and Diane Keaton on a split screen in Annie Hall
(And the Visual tab stopped working)
WaterGirl
@RaflW: oh, i clicked back to that earlier, but the first comment did have a link to the underwear, which I wasn’t going to click. :-)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@jonas: somebody– the Washington Post?– used to keep track of the partisan affiliations of Sunday show guests– not even counting panelists. One year (IIRC), four of the five most frequent guests on MTP were Republicans. Number five was Netanyahu (so… five of five, really). Probably in the run-up to the Iran nuclear accords.
Can’t blame that on Monsignor Russert (1950-2008), but he did a lot to create that culture.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I refuse to watch them. Until they bring on the people that are personally negatively affected by conservative policies done in the name of austerity, Christian morality, national security or cruelty for fun’s sake to describe their stories and to confront the advocates of shiftiness, I won’t watch.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Looking at those numbers, and knowing that that $1400 isn’t monthly, it’s absolutely insane how much people were left to twist in the wind compared to other countries.
Ruviana
@WaterGirl: It’s a scene from Annie Hall.
WaterGirl
@Barbara: I don’t use Firefox at all… is there any feeling for how quickly they come out with an update after the initial release of someverion.0 ?
I’d like to wait until they have an update, but not if it’s generally a week or month later.
satby
@Barbara: Mine too and I don’t use FF. Also the duplicate comment randomly occurs without rhyme or reason even if I switch devices (so it can’t be a duplicate!). I’ve just learned to live with it.
Uncle Cosmo
@Omnes Omnibus:
Worked for me once this AM, the rest to the text box. Intermittent failure, the reason experienced reliability engineers are all bald – it makes them tear their hair out in frustration at an early age. (Same for the backarrow, FTR – works only intermittently.)
johnnybuck
I wish we could retire the shibboleth that jon Stewart somehow betrayed the cause. He’s a comedian first and foremost, He gave a lot of comfort during the Bush administration along with a lot of other people conveniently tossed aside when their views didn’t fit our orthodoxy anymore. 80% of his show was about the media anyway, and I never took my lead from anything he had to say on politics, then or now.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I had forgotten that! I can’t bear to watch Woody Allen movies now, or I would be tempted to try to find that scene.
Jinchi
@WaterGirl:
Different perspectives on bipartisanship:
D: We have a problem to solve. Here’s our plan. How would you solve it differently?
R: How about we just do less?
satby
@Another Scott: Yeah, I had to leave in the middle of that but you could feel the crowd deflate.
Barbara
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yes. Shana Alexander and James Kilpatrick faced off at the end of every episode of 60 Minutes and my whole family hated every bit of it. I haven’t watched Sunday news shows since I tried to watch with a friend decades ago and he ended up screaming at the TV nonstop.
Ivan X
@johnnybuck: well said, I agree.
Barbara
@WaterGirl:
Scene from Annie Hall IIRC, with split screen showing each with their respective therapists.
Just here to meet all your needs for accurate 70s trivia!
Another Scott
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Back in ye olden days, just about every TV (and radio) show had a specific overt sponsor. “Lucky Strike brings you Little Orphan Annie!!” One knew where they stood.
ADM and the drug companies and Mutual of Omaha aren’t going to sponsor shows that upset the “conventional wisdom”.
I think we’ll know that the Sunday Shows have changed when we see things like “MTP brought to you by Adam & Eve!!”.
Cheers,
Scott.
RaflW
@Ivan X: Well thought out comment. To the extent that many “living-in-comfort center-idealizing liberals” are white and straight, they can afford to have a nostalgic and generally idealized notion of how the center must hold. They have far less at risk in a rightward drift than immigrants, Black folks, queer and trans people,
But of course the center has very little power base. What the centrists don’t seem to grasp is that how we describe a line through time is that it oscillates.
(I’m not a maths guy so this may be wrong) It seems to me that the long-term mean (median?) that we think of as the center gets reflected by the yin/yang of left/right ascendancy in policy. We haven’t had a left swing in this country since Social Security was passed. Or, at least in some terms, since the 60s civil rights laws.
We are so far past due for a left oscillation. But that terrifies the right, and has hoodwinked ‘the center’.
raven
Anybody heard from Kent?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@lapassionara: That was a SNL spoof of 60 Minutes’ “Point-Counterpoint” segment which was an early precursor to “Crossfire”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Another Scott: I vaguely remember his “politics are like the Lincoln Tunnel”, you have to merge, first one lane goes, and then the other…
Colbert was always clearly more engaged in substance than Stewart, even in character. As I said above, I’m an atheist, every muscle in my body tenses up when a politician or pundit starts talking about “faith”, but Colbert is one of those liberal Catholics who means it. Like Biden.
Tim Russert asking candidates in a GOP primary debate is what caused Ezra Klein’s famous “Fuck Tim Russert. Fuck him with a spiky, acid-tipped railroad spike”, that he accidentally put on his public feed for the then-new thing called twitter. I once saw Ezra Klein on a split screen with Luke Russert. Punkinhead Jr’s jaw was clenched so tight I was afraid he was gonna break a tooth.
satby
@johnnybuck: Yeah, he never claimed to be anything more than a comedian. As he clearly pointed out to Fucker Carlson. It’s a statement more about how shitty and divorced from reporting plain facts our news media was that comedians became our most important sources, and that surveys showed that people watching Stewart and Colbert were better informed on current events than Fox Noise watchers. They didn’t ask to be leaders of a movement, they were going for laughs. Edited for missing context. And spelling.
Spanky
@Immanentize:
No, no. That’s like a week away, I think.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@raven:
It amused me when I lived in Baltimore, at a time when “Italian restaurant” meant spaghetti and pizza and “Chinese restaurant” meant chow mein, that locals would happily scarf down raw clams and oysters, crabs by the dozen (traditionally ripped apart with your bare hands), and soft-shell crab sandwiches which are EXTREMELY insect-like, as you crunch all the little legs between two pieces of bread.
khead
@RaflW:
This skit was actually on last night. The 10 PM NBC repeat was from Dec 1990 (John Goodman was the host and played Jack Germond) and the first three skits were The McLaughin Group, a “Players With Yourselves Club” commercial and Wayne’s World. Not bad, actually.
ETA – I see debbie and cope got there first. I’m slow. Lol.
Barbara
@satby: I don’t feel betrayed but Stewart tried to make a serious pitch and I found it mildly disappointing that his take was so conventionally “both sides.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I remember DougJ saying, pre-RallyAboutNothing, that the angriest pushback he ever got on this blog was when he dissed Jon Stewart.
Geminid
@Another Scott: An obituary of Cloris Leachment described how she lost the Mom role in “Lassie” a few episodes in. Campbell Soup was the sponsor, and Leachman was told to do soup commercials. She refused, saying she made her own soup, so the producers fired her.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s funny – large entities not only survive crises, but thrive with after major emergency capital injections, and manage to pay it all back (for instance, the Citadel bailout of Melvin, Chrysler in 2009, the hedgies with TARP), but when it comes to regular people, help is slow, inadequate and fought every step.
This country sucks, and white conservative Christians and their filthy ideology is what makes it suck.
johnnybuck
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I vaguely remember his “politics are like the Lincoln Tunnel”, you have to merge, first one lane goes, and then the other…
Yeah, that was pretty lame,but talking about “unity” in a hyper partisan atmosphere (especially when nobody wants to give and take) is always gonna be a letdown.
mrmoshpotato
Speaking of shows more worth watching than Chuckles, etc be assclowns. And in honor of it being a snowy beast outside.
ZOINKS!
raven
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Eat the tail and suck the head!!
Baud
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Another Scott:
Would be worth watching for the commercials alone.
Ken
Networking is the worst, according to a usually-reliable source.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
His show helped us get through the Bush years. I’m not surprised he garnered some loyalty.
Ken
Fixed that for you.
jonas
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, for a number of years, the show was basically “Meet John McCain”
The Pale Scot
What I really miss is pre political internet Washington Journal before the flying monkeys showed up. Actual questions and coherent comments from watchers calling in. I stopped watching years ago. Back in the day there was someone who was always trying to get in a question about “Why The Jews and the AAArabs….” before he got disconnected. Now I sure he’s calling in every week talking current events
The Pale Scot
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
William Safire I believe
WaterGirl
@raven: Kent commented yesterday at 7pm ish.
Geminid
@Geminid: that’s Cloris Leachman. It seems my proofreader is on strike.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: I was a huge fan, and even after the Rally debacle– he had great writers and delivered their lines well. But Stewart was a political comedian before he got TDS, which was not particularly political under Craig Kilborn (who must’ve made some bank cause he vanished) and Lizz Winstead. He made himself a pundit, especially about aid for 9/11 first responders, and then retreated behind the “I’m just a comedian!” dodge when people pointed out how lame his punditry was.
Similar track to Krugman, who had a similar bug up his ass about Obama, and retreated behind the “I’m just an economist” when Jonathan Chait called out the willful and repeated disingenuousness of his political analysis.
Geminid
@Geminid: but I repeat myself.
raven
@WaterGirl: yea, I got that.
Ivan X
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree with this too. Even as a fan, I always found Stewart’s claim of traditional newspeople needing to be held to a different standard because he’s just a comedian, to be disingenuous. He was talking politics, and presumably meant the things he said, and his opinions were valued by his fans. He may well not have wanted the “responsibility” he was (correctly) assigning to others, but he chose it for himself, and didn’t own it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
speaking of Sunday shows, and why they should be put out of their miser
Teve
I stopped watching the Sunday shows 20 years ago, back when Tim Russert and David Brinkley were still on them. People’s animosity towards Chuck Todd gives them some kind of nostalgia bias and makes them think that Tim Russert was any better. He wasn’t. The show was still 30 or 40 minutes of letting Republicans tell obvious lies while pretending they weren’t and giving token ‘questioning’.
if you want to follow politics seriously you follow certain magazines, newspapers, Twitter feeds, and blogs. All TV news shows are trash. The way incentives and the market works these days they have no ability to be anything but.
Amir Khalid
Liverpool’s Mo Salah has taken two quick bites out of hosts West Ham United in the English Premier League. And Liverpool lead 0-2.
The Pale Scot
@Lyrebird:
a few peoples views on ball hammock pouch underwear
Could be useful for bicycling
OGLiberal
I used to watch McLaughlin group just for the entertainment value. They all suck. I think I remember an old SNL skit about Meet the Press with Tim Russert asking McCain about running for president then playing a clip of McCain from the 80s saying he wasn’t running for president then asking presidential candidate in the 2000s to defend the statement, “Your words, Senator.” Always gotcha BS.
laura
Why waste time watching “the shows”? Absolute silencing of voices on the left. Constant presence of those who’ve been wrong about every damn thing at the cost of blood and treasure and any social good. The rehabilitation of bad faith actors. The both sides. The false equivalencies. The racism, sexism and classism. The misogyny. The total and absolute avoidance of calling out what can plainly be seen. The celebrity of the hosts. The hacks – absolute fucking hacks on “the panels.” The infotainment of it all. Fuck the sunday shows, but feel free to call them out until they are no more. Make them worth watching by making the right to an informed public as part of self governance – I’m down with that. But that’s not what we’ve been served for decades.
Driftglass is the master of criticizing the mouse circus – and we’d benefit from his voice or Marcy Wheeler’s Revern Barber or more TeNahisi Coates, or known and unknown people who do the work and can explain why shit’s fucked up and bullshit and how to undo that. But our betters will not allow it. George Carlin’s Owner of America is instructive on this point. Big Club and all that.
Ken
And yet, with minor replacements, that’s exactly the argument Fox News makes every time they’re sued for journalistic malpractice. “Oh, that isn’t one of our news shows, it’s an opinion piece.”
WaterGirl
@raven: ?
sab
OT but some good news I heard on NPR (I know, I know…) on Wednesday afternoon. Doctor at University of Chicago hospital. She said that in a normal flu season they get about 100 cases per week admitted. This year there have been 3 for the whole season so far. In a bad flu year 80,000 people die of it across the whole US. Reporter asked her why the change? Masks, handwashing, social distancing do work for most other infectious diseases.
Amir Khalid
@Ken:
And opinions don’t need to be based on fact? Fox’s defence of its obviously intentional one-sidedness is bullshit.
Another Scott
It’s kinda sad when American Choppers had more sensible arguments than what we typically see on the Sunday shows…
(via SenatorShoshana (found her via Popehat)).
Cheers,
Scott.
Ivan X
@Ken: What, Fox News are weasels? News at 11!
debbie
@Barbara:
The New Yorker Radio hour included an interview with William Barber, who spoke about how far evangelicals have strayed from Christ’s teachings. (I believe the interview was the program’s first segment.)
Shakti
Honestly, unless your job requires you to watch the Sunday morning talk shows I don’t see the value in them.
They have the most ossified version of whatever political discourse actually exists if you need to check into what The Status Quo ™ is. Not where it’s going, maybe where it is, most likely where it was.
I’ve asked people who watch them why they watch it and it’s just… I don’t get it.
Life is too short to subscribe to shit that makes you anxious or bores you to death. Besides I can figure out the ossified version faster than “4 hours every Sunday.”
Jeffro
@mrmoshpotato: that is awesome!! I’d forgotten about that skit ?
Villago Delenda Est
Every Monday over at Wonkette Michael Mora does a rundown of the Sunday shows. He watches them so we don’t have to. It’s usually Rethugs saying stupid things and the worthless hosts not following up, although recently the stink has been so bad that some of them (even Chuckles the Toddler) have been actually doing their jobs as journalists, and not enablers of the GOP.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ivan X:
Fair and Balanced, of course.
Jinchi
@Ivan X:
No, Stewart was right. News anchors are supposed to be delivering facts. Stewart and Colbert were playing a skit. He never expected people to be looking to him for news, or objective truth any more than they listened to Curtain and Akroyd for it. Viewers only started to because the news people had gotten so awful at it.
Ken
The courts have pretty consistently said not. Unfortunately they haven’t followed up with a requirement that the shows tell viewers they aren’t news; my preference would be to require a continuous chyron “THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN LEGALLY FOUND TO HAVE NO BASIS IN FACT”.
satby
@MazeDancer: @laura: Well, we are finding plenty to discuss in how much we all hate them and what dreck they are. Lemonade!
And duplicate comment strikes again… On a different device. Because I hit the back button this time, so didn’t see it posted, and fixed the typo. WG, you can delete mine at #177
Villago Delenda Est
@debbie: The roots of fundigelicalism can be traced back to the breakup of sects into Northern and Southern branches in the 1850s, centering of course on the question of slavery. The fundigelicals took the Southern side, and have been white supremacist Mammonists ever since.
Jeffro
@jonas: yup, same exact thing
Zero ability to exercise critical thinking, zero ability to tolerate opposing views even for a minute. “Just spoon feed me my outrage and made-up BS, please!”
I mean, “liberal” Chris Wallace???
that’s beyond parody
FlyingToaster
@WaterGirl: I’m on Firefox 85 on MacOS (High Sierra/13) and have NO problem commenting in Visual. FWIW.
Amir Khalid
A 1-3 away win at West Ham for Liverpool, their second away EPL win this week against a London club.
Baud
@debbie:
I’m closer to Jesus than they are and I’m the type of person God sent Jesus to warn people about.
Suzanne
@Ivan X:
I do, too. I lived with my grandparents growing up, and my grandfather (described by my uncle as “a Roosevelt Democrat who became a Nixon Republican”) just looooved the McLaughlin show. So I used to watch it with him every week. And I was young, like preschool or kindergarten age, when this started. I thought it was hilarious.
Jinchi
@Shakti:
I think that’s literally true. The Sunday shows are designed to be viewed by DC politicians and their staffs, which is why they’re limited to a politically acceptable range of ideas and opinions. They serve the same purpose as Fox-N-Friends did for Trump over the last few years. They’re happy for you to listen in, but they really don’t care about your opinion.
Amir Khalid
@Ken:
Whatever the courts may say, an honest opinion must be based on fact and fairly argued.
Ken
@Amir Khalid: Ah, well, honest opinion. But we’re talking about Fox.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Suzanne: Mike Royko once imagined a McLaughlin group reaction to a hypothetical about Bill Clinton getting chased by a dog while jogging, and the controversy about whether the dog bit him or he kicked it for no reason
Fred Barnes: The most wanton act of unprovoked animal cruelty ever seen, a sign of real psychosis
Eleanor Clift: The vicious brute got what it deserved!
Mort Kondracke: The dog nipped at him, and he kicked it, but he didn’t mean to
Jack Germond: Who the hell cares?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: ETA: From memory, which I would have had added with the edit, but the edit box isn’t there, which I only bother to mention in case Water Girl is still making notes. Safari on a MacBook
ETA: and now the bloody edit box is there for both comments
Brachiator
@Jinchi:
Coming late to the thread. Hey, I enjoy my Southern California Sunday mornings.
This is very true. I mainly avoid these shows and am invariably disappointed when I tune in to see if the panels and guests have anything to say about a hot topic.
This stuff is largely Beltway politicians justifying whatever they want to do and reporters and pundits serving as ventriloquist dummies for their sources.
And the most useless aspect of these shows is always the guest who is brought on specifically because he or she can reliably prattle on about any subject for ten minutes, until a commercial break. Yeah, I am looking at you Andrea Mitchell and Hugh Hewitt.
Radio and TV depend on smooth talkers. I once heard a radio talk show host cut and interview short and apologize to the audience because a guest spoke with a lot of hesitation and had a dull speaking voice. But he also had a profound understanding of Middle Eastern politics and was puncturing a lot of conventional wisdom with informed examples. I understand that the host was afraid that listeners might switch stations, but I also think the host could have done more to make the guest comfortable.
I kept waiting for the pundit shows to confront guests about Trump’s instability and incompetence. Never happened.
patrick II
Today is Kevin Drum’s last day at Mother Jones. He is going to his own place at which he says he will post less often, but more to his personal interests.Kevin Drum.
Kevin was the first blogger I ever read. I found him from a mention in a Paul Krugman column. From Kevin’s blogroll I found most of the other places I eventually read. An introduction into a world where people knew what they were talking about, weren’t afraid to say it, and follow-on conversations about what they said.
JCNZ
@RaflW: “the Newtification” – brilliant.
cmorenc
Even Lincoln had to put up with a noisy congressional opposition out to hatefully obstruct and undermine him and the war effort – and reach a negotiated settlement on mostly southern-friendly terms (including preserving slavery) with the confederacy even in 1864, when it was increasingly obvious the south was on its way to inevitable defeat within months
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I don’t think that Jesus had much to say about wearing pants.
Brachiator
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I think he did, but he kept it … brief.
JCNZ
@Just Chuck: True! The second most withering take-down in television history, after “At long last – have you no sense of decency?” And yet, there’s Tucker, the moral center of Fox…
Uncle Cosmo
Sounds like you lived in a food desert of your own choosing. Clearly you never ventured anywhere near Little Italy. (Your loss, medigan!) And I vividly recall** a Chinese supper for 10 from the early 1970s featuring Peking duck and dishes for 6 (more than enough for my grad-school prof & his stoonts) – and that was out in the ‘burbs (Imperial Palace on Liberty Rd.)
(Um, normally we use crab mallets and table knives to extract the maximum amount of succulence from steamed Callinectes sapidus, the Beautiful Savory Swimmer. Deconstruct them barehanded & you will sufferthe pain of a thousand cuts raised to the nth with Old Bay rubbed into each one.)
It was late summer 1987 when my then-current squeeze called to let me know her dad had just come in from crabbing with a couple of bushels & was about to steam them & I should get my crustacean-crazed butt over there ASAP.
It was classic high(low) Bawlmer, hon: Big table covered with sheets of the Sun (“Blight For All”), mallets & knives, cans of ice-cold Natty Boh. As we and some neighbors were dismantling the goodies, one of the neighbors recalled a show she’d seen the afternoon before where some culinary type described how to use the cicadas that were falling dead all around town*** in cooking, even to grinding them up to add to bread dough. One of the other neighbors said,
And I looked down at the ten-legged benthic prowler on arthropod growth hormone before me…& started to laugh insanely. And when they asked what was so funny, I realized that in that working-class part of town my observation would not be greeted with the approbation it deserved…so I shook my head & took a long swig from the sweating can and reached for my mallet and knife…
** Vividly, as I was tearing through a platter of Kung Pao Chicken, wondered what this strange thing in my mouth was, chewed it up to find it was one of the chilis – and we were out of water, couldn’t flag down a waiter, so I chomped white rice & told bad jokes between bites waiting for the pain to subside…
*** Brood 10, a particularly pervasive bunch.
lowtechcyclist
@RaflW:
There’s a local (Calvert Co., MD) hole in the wall carryout place called Pinky’s that has the best crawfish etouffee I’ve had outside of New Orleans.
They don’t have it all the time, just as an occasional special. It’s on the menu for tonight, so I know what I’m having for supper.
Uncle Cosmo
And now FYWP just ate a comment I spent twenty minutes crafting. FYWP!!
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
I think that William Safire once writing an angry column asserting that pundits did not have to base their op ed pieces on facts. Even though he got some pushback from readers, it didn’t change anything.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: You owe NotMax a royalty payment for that one.
Curtis
I find myself enjoying CBS’s Face the Nation, I actually learn things I didn’t know. Admittedly, I can curate my experience by only watching the segments I want to watch through YouTube.
Martin
@Just Chuck: This. The whole premise behind the Sunday shows is that there are two rational but differing viewpoints that deserve an airing. They are completely worthless when one side is talking about Jew space lasers. When you have interviews on CNN where people are apologizing to Anderson Cooper for believing he ate babies, you really need to throw all of the formats out the window and start over.
The sunday shows should be dedicated to revealing the big lie, and the purveyors of it. Invite on Republicans that will either speak to the big lie, or apologize openly for it. And nobody else. Until that lie is tamped down, no other topics should be discussed.
Ken
I see no contradiction between Carlson being the moral center of Fox, and Fox being a wretched hive of scum and villany that supports itself by a toxic mix of lies, white supremacy, and cash-for-gold ripoffs.
Steeplejack (phone)
@WaterGirl:
I think it’s good to have a non-Garden Chat political, or even just open, thread on Sunday morning for breaking news and reader venting that might harsh the mellow in the Garden Chat.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Here’s the script for all Democrats for the next week:
somebody from a safe state can add in, to borrow a line from I forget who on I forget which podcast I listened to yesterday: I’m not interested in pleas for unity and bipartisanship from people who joined hands with Mitch McConnell and Donald trump to dance on Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s grave.
Martin
Alternatively, someone for the love of god bring back the Ethics in America series as a regular Sunday program. That was perhaps the most useful bit of programming to ever grace our airwaves.
Geminid
@Brachiator: Political columns aside, William Safire did some good work in his Civil War novel Freedom. He covers the period from Ft. Sumter to January 1, 1863, with a lot of attention to the politics of Emancipation. All the major characters are historical, including political operators Frank Blair Sr. and Anna Carroll. A long read, but worth it if you are into that history.
Inventor
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I remember the parody of the parody with “The Sinatra Group”. Sinead O’Conner was on and the Sinatra character asks “Sine Aid O’Conner, what’s with the cue ball?”.
West of the Rockies
I can haz new post?
Asking for a friend.
(Actually, I’m not requesting one, just noting this whole post exists because having just a garden thread last Sunday caused some grief.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Inventor: “Uncle Fest-ah?”
I loved that skit. Hartman is up there with the best of SNL players, and Jan Hooks never got her due.
To quote Tina Fey: She should’ve had a bigger career than Rob Fucking Schneider.
sab
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Perhaps “Don’t”.
Another Scott
Rafael be criming? Unpossible.
(There are legal ways to do it, but this isn’t one of them. See the thread for the details.)
(via JuanitaJean)
Cheers,
Scott.
sherparick
Driftglass is who you are thinking about, and he does fewer of these then he use to do. https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2021/01/sunday-morning-comin-down.html
He explains why here and also does a good job of explaining why the Sunday morning shows are as bad as they are (hint: watch hose commercials run during these shows). https://driftglass.blogspot.com/2021/01/sunday-morning-comin-down-in-four.html
Where he concludes “…Because long ago somewhere high up in NBC/Comcast executive county, men in suits who you will never see on-camera decided that the purpose of programs like Meet the Press was not to inform the citizens of a great nation in order to serve democracy, but instead was just another infotainment product — a puppet show designed to serve the interests of their advertisers and shareholders by attracting the attention of the maximum number of consumers . And because those are the priorities of NBC/Comcast executives, from their perspective…
… this meathead’s eyeballs are just as valuable, just as monetizable, as yours or mine.
And because the health of our democracy is irrelevant to their corporate decision-making — and because nothing they actually do care about is ever jeopardized by their corrupt behavior — there is no reason in the world for them to stop
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I usually hate the “when you’re negotiating to a buy a house/car….” analogy, but I agree with this here.
BruceFromOhio
@The Pale Scot:
Depends on how you are built. I found that the saddle has far more to do with comfort than what I’m wearing. And not to go cheap on the riding shorts, the better materials and engineering in more expensive designs are absolutely worth it.
Another Scott
STATNews:
Yet more evidence that they weren’t incompetent, they were actively malicious.
Don’t forget. Stay angry. Use that anger to make things better.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t like the framing at all. It’s still about how the Dems negotiate. The GOP actually put a policy proposal out, but they’re not being judged on that. They’re being judged on whether or not they’ve backed the Dems into a corner. (Narrator: They didn’t.)
rikyrah
@realbtl:
Yeah???
JMG
The Sunday shows are basically under the table campaign contributions to pols from the mass media conglomerates who own the shows, Comcast, Disney, and whatever CBS is calling its corporate self these days. They pay the pols in free air time rather than money. Obviously the scam goes down the drain if the hosts and panelists give the pols a hard time. So that doesn’t happen.
True story about the Sunday shows and why no one should bother to watch them. The Monica Lewinsky story broke the week of Super Bowl 32, which was held in San Diego. On Super Sunday morning, a section of the lobby was turned into a TV remote location. Out went the palm trees, in came fake bookshelves and fake dark wood paneling so Senators could get on the shows, as they all were dying to, while trying to hide the fact they were actually at the Super Bowl and not in Washington from their constituents. I watched from the other end of the lobby for awhile, hoping I’d see one of the fake bookshelves fall over.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Agreed. The question should be is the GOP proposal any good? Does it help Americans more or more efficiently than Biden’s proposal?
Narrator: No it isn’t and no it doesn’t.
Another Scott
@JMG: +1. An excellent reminder.
And a great story.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
We were actually in Baltimore County not the City. It definitely was a food desert. But no, we didn’t get to Little Italy more than maybe once or twice in those days.
They were served with the knife, mallet and nutcracker. But I had locals sneer at me for using them, who insisted that the only proper way to dissect the crab was with bare hands.
Did you ever see Beasts of the Southern Wild? There’s a similar scene there where the dad takes the implements away from his 6-year-old daughter and insists she “beast it”.
Martin
Worth observing that Covid killing POC faster than white people is precisely the stated goal of the race war that the Stephen Millers of the world wish to engage in.
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Still gives too much authority to the GOP.
“70% of Americans support the Democratic bill. That’s the only bipartisanship and unity we should care about. How many elected Republicans think the bill affects their chances of drawing a primary challenge isn’t relevant.”
smedley the uncertain
Had to refresh to get visual with FF and WIN 7. Otherwise fine.
nb: WIN 10 on order.
ETA Just noticed didn’t include WG s nym in reply. Hmmm.
Edit Test-OK
Jinchi
@Martin:
Case in point: When we learned that meat packing plants were badly managed covid hotspots, Trump reacted by using the Defense Production Act to prevent them from being shuttered and instead of mandating proper safety measures for employees, he pushed liability protections to shelter owners.
It was pretty clear he held the lives of the workers and their communities in low regard.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Yet more evidence that they weren’t incompetent, they were actively malicious.
Maliciously incompetent? We need a new word for these idiots.
Details of the story remind me of how Young Jared was obsessed with controlling needed medical supplies. These staffers seemed to be really plugged in to Trump’s vision of governing.
They didn’t have any concept of the nature of the pandemic or the need to respond quickly and effectively at the federal level, but instead were obsessed with controlling the flow of money and equipment.
And most of all, they wanted states to grovel and beg for assistance.
So, from the people in charge, this Mango guy.
What also continues to make me angry is that even Republicans knew this was nonsense.
And still these fools enabled and protected Trump and his vile minions.
dmsilev
@Another Scott:
‘Preparing ahead of time is for suckers and losers’ — pretty much all of T****’s appointees, taking their cue from their leader and Messiah.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
BTW, the STATNews article is very good. I wonder where the NY Times ace reporter Maggie Haberman was while all this was going on.
Kayla Rudbek
@Jinchi: yes, you’re correct. It’s why DC-suburban raised spouse loves these shows and why I absolutely can’t stand them.
CaseyL
Ah, the Sunday gabfests. Anyone else remember, back in the Aughts (or was it even further back, in the 90s) that Atrios used to have an open thread for Sunday talk shows, with the single line intro “Document the atrocities”?
That’s how long it’s been that the Sunday talk shows have been perfectly useless exercises in self-fluffing, obfuscation, and outright lying. And that is also how long it’s been that the moderators were equally useless, nodding along like dashboard doggies, with nary a quibble about the untruths they were spreading. (Particularly true in the runup to the Iraq War.)
“Access journalism” is an abomination. All the moderators need to throw out their carefully curated Rolodexes and start over.
Another Scott
@smedley the uncertain: (If you have an activated copy of Win7, you can (still) just download and upgrade to Win10 for free – MS. Note all the caveats – make sure you’ve got the Key in case you need it again.)
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
O/T, but I’m shocked at the Collins-led “bipartisan” COVID package. It severely cuts back spending on reopening schools. Around here, at least, parents from conservative areas are the most vocal in reopening schools. I can’t imagine Biden will take their proposal seriously, but I don’t think GOP supporters will be very happy.
(The info about cutting school spending came out after the link above, but I can’t get through the WaPo paywall, where I’m sure there’s better information.)
TomatoQueen
Visual tab is completely nonfunctional for me (FF 85, Lenovo Win10 new updates) but text box opens–this has never happened before, including on the work machine (now with choice of IE or Edge, and Edge seems to get on with BJ quite well).
Last weekend I think Dr Fauci was on Margaret so I watched, a first for me in hundreds of years. He was great and she was horrible, a Manichean and a BBC-style interrupter, so then I remembered why I stopped watching what dear Calvin Trillin called ‘the Sunday gasbags’ and switched to something else probably Mo Rocca and his kids’ programming. Usually I watch English football on weekends, the previous week’s offerings so dispiriting that I just can’t.
dnfree
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: it’s not a Sunday show, but we have started saying “Judy, you ignorant slut” to Judy Woodruff on PBS Newshour. She should hang up her hat and retire and let one of the talented younger people take over. We have watched her completely overtalked by disciplined but lying tight-wingers, and we’ve seen her ask “fair and balanced” questions repeatedly to Democrats.
cain
Good luck with that. Thanks to FB and others – Christianity has turned into exactly that – their new totem is Trump – a symbolism for the Christian kingdom.
Just run a poll around the concept of Trump as a possible Messiah – and I bet you’ll get 35% of the country who think that.
WaterGirl
@Uncle Cosmo: Are you sure it’s not the one at #198?
LuciaMia
Books-a-Million?
Any connection to Reviews-for-a-Dollar?
sab
@dnfree: WE DO THAT TOO! And CNN used to pass her off as the liberal on Crossfire against the infant Tucker Carlson.
cain
@Ken:
He might not be the greatest criminal genius of the age, but Gene Hackman is such an amazing actor – he has done so many different roles – the only person who comes close to him is John Lithgow – sometimes you hate their characters, some you just embrace with love. I have only good things to say about them.
cain
@Ken:
me too! Crazy stuff!
cain
@Another Scott:
I keep thinking that we should build an antifa corporate front that all it does is sponsor shows that pays double what the other sponsors give.
Mike in NC
Today I watched the PBS Frontline documentary “Trump’s American Carnage”. It was a ghastly summation of his appalling Reign of Error. Now I need a stiff drink.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator:
And continue to do so.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: There are worse reasons for having a thread, I think. :-)
Geminid
@cain: I thought Hackman was good as the Sheriff in Unforgiven. A very unlikable character. But not as unlikable as Walter Brennan’s Ike Clanton in My Darling Clementine. A thoroughly evil character.
Starboard Tack
@WaterGirl:
I’m having similar problems with
Chrome
Version 88.0.4324.104 (Official Build) (64-bit)
W10 Home
10.0.19041 Build 19041
Sometimes no Visual tab. Back arrow is screwy after I make a comment.
J R in WV
@Teve:
Actually, if, as you indicate, you never watch any TV news shows, you have no way to actually make that judgement at all — it is merely your belief, based upon no facts or personal knowledge.
My Wife was a news reporter, editor and correspondent from 1971 til her total permanent disability “award” in the early 2000s. She watches and listens to news shows, and reads blogs, even this one. So since we live together, I also see MSNBC, ABC and CNN news, and listen to NPR and WV Public Broadcasting news.
Both CNN and MSNBC are doing pretty well by now, actually calling a lie a lie, and liars are called liars…
ABC is merely a conveyance for commercials.
NPR isn’t as bad as some here make it out to be, especially on non-political news; WV Public Broadcasting is pretty good, and where we put our news donations.
And of course we read a ton of news published all over the world on the WWW.
I would recommend you watch the evening shows on MSNBC, or even CNN, before you criticize TV news any further. Baseless attacks are, well, baseless, aren’t they!
WaterGirl
@Starboard Tack: This will be a different issue than the Firefox issue that showed up with the update to 85.0.
For your issue, it’s a cache thing, I believe, and should be resolved if you click the blue link that’s just above the comment box.
Please confirm that that works for you, or let me know that it doesn’t.
Jinchi
@Baud:
The way I understand it, 10 Republicans put together a proposal. The only way it gets a majority in the Senate is if at least 40 Democrats vote for it. The only way it passes is if 200+ House Democrats join as well.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
No. It’s not Firefox’s problem, it’s one or more peculiarities particular to the site.
Starboard Tack
@WaterGirl:
Sounds true. Will do. Should have seen better.
Philbert
@RaflW: The SNL spoof of the McLaughlin Report: ‘Question number three: what’s the answer to question number 5? ‘
redactor
@SFAW: Charlie Pierce used to have the regular Monday feature, “What Are the Gobshites Saying?”, in which he summarized the Sunday shows. He hasn’t done it in quite a while, though.
Starboard Tack
I thought I made that up.
J R in WV
@Mike in NC:
Got the Visual Tab, and it works this time!
Did not watch the Frontline docu on Trump’s Carnage, I’ve lived it and watched it in person.
So now I too need a stiff drink, and it’s now verging on our cocktail hour, 5:00 pm Eastern Std Time. Nearly. Close enough. Tall Gin and Tonic coming up for me, Rum and Tonic for Wife, with a big squeeze of fresh lime in it.
I hope and suspect the actual members of the Republican Fascist Party out in the states are not as happy about the insurrection as the Partei Leadership.
I think watching the Impeachment Trial, with witnesses and evidence and video and selfies, may change some minds of even those still on the fence.
Brachiator
@J R in WV:
This is worth a separate thread.
I’ve watched a ton of TV news over the years. Even worked for a great metropolitan newspaper. And I agree that most TV news is largely trash.
TV news is often more of a headline service. But in the past I would often go to a newspaper or website for more detailed information, increasingly I have to go elsewhere for more accurate information.
But I agree with you that some news organizations, such as CNN and MSNBC are good (although much of the business news coverage on MSNBC is a waste of time).
Ah, but their political news can be abysmal, and has certainly declined in quality over the years.
Still, a fair point. Out here in Southern California, local public radio station KPCC is a national treasure. Their best efforts are stymied by sheer economics; they simply cannot afford to hire and field enough reporters. They would also spotlight reporters from various Southern California newspapers. But the slow death of newspapers means that there is simply and absolutely less news coverage than in the past.
Haroldo
@Geminid:
Then, of course, we have Henry Fonda in Once Upon a Time in the West, the zenith (nadir?) of evil in my books.
Starboard Tack
@J R in WV:
Good reminder. I got a fresh lemon yesterday and a bottle of rye. Time for a Horse’s Neck, or two.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@patrick II: Thanks for the link. I used to read KD all the time, and then fell out of the habit when he moved sites. Good to have him back.
Starboard Tack
@Haroldo:
Good movie. Also My Name is Nobody.
sab
@Another Scott: Thanks. I should have asked back when I needed this last March.
Jay
cain
That is because these people see the COVID folks as people who are on the dole or too old. So I suspect they see it as a cleansing – basically it’s a feature not a bug.
Their hate for the poor, the old, and the infirm is why.
ETA: added because I can.
Haroldo
@Starboard Tack:
Thanks for the tip. I was unaware.
BR
Martin had a good suggestion of what to give Manchin on another thread — miner pensions, black lung treatment, etc. — and I wonder if someone can get that to Manchin or Schumer or someone. I mean I’m sure someone out there has considered it, but might as well push for it if it’s something WV specific and good policy.
Martin
@Barbara: Lots of reasons for it. Mostly, social media exposes you to people that aren’t exactly like you, which was always a big goal of segregationists policies.
Brachiator
@cain:
I have not heard or read any of these dopes claiming that Covid-19 victims were on the dole. But is there some evidence that they think that news stories describing many victims as lower paid workers is “fake news” and that these people are really on the dole?
However, I absolutely agree that many conservatives think that old people are worthless.
I recently watched a British journalist spout the lie that old people who died of the virus were “going to die anyway.” This woman was in her 30s I would guess. I wonder if she feels the same way about her own parents or other relatives.
But it is clear that these people are desperate to discount the impact of the pandemic, so they try to dismiss the raw numbers of hospitalizations and fatalities, and ignore the humanity of those affected.
SFAW
@Jay:
Wow, our Schumer is learning?
johnnybuck
I go away for three hours and this thread is still going strong. Guess it wasn’t a bad idea Watergirl!
Jay
Baud
@SFAW:
Eh. Schumer wasn’t majority leader in 2009-10. And he can read the Zeitgeist, and has experienced the last 4-8 years along with the rest of us.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Appalling. I wish someone would post a more readable version of the letter.
Brachiator
@Jay:
I applaud Schumer, but I wish he could make the better case for this. A large relief package is needed to help people maintain, but it is not going to end this economic downturn, because it is not a traditional recession.
This is also why additional stimulus may be needed in the future.
ETA: the Visual reply box is suddenly not working. Hopefully the Text version will be OK.
Jay
@Brachiator:
Uncle Cosmo
What part of the County? I grew up in Dundalk, bit over a mile east of the city line. The Eye-talian jernt was Squire’s Cafe (technically, Romiti’s Restaurant) on Holabird Ave. (Still there – we did HS class reunion luncheons there pre-Varss.) Chinese? Rotsa ruck. I didn’t do hardly any dine fining till after 30 when I moved into town.
FTR we weren’t a steamed-crab fambly – Dad considered picking crabs too much work. He loved crab cakes though. Every so often Mom would get a can of claw meat & make them per the recipe on the Old Bay cans. Here’s a true story for ya:
He decided not to take umbrage (or even penumbrage) & I lasted there nearly 5 years…
(O/T: Still needing to enter text mode to post or to edit a post . What’s the difference between a panicked chicken and BJ posting? The former is a flustered cluck, the latter is…)
NotMax
OT.
BTW, there was a period of 522 error during the wee hours blog time last night.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jeff Stein @JStein_WaPo · 3h
Good.
WaterGirl
@Brachiator: Guessing you use Firefox? The recent update to version 85.0 has left people (mostly) unable to comment from the visual tab.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Uncle Cosmo: We were just off Route 40, not too far from Catonsville or from the big Social Security office.
Jay
@Brachiator:
Guaranteed Annual Income is a bridge too far right now, but is what’s needed.
As a retail worker, with all these new Covid strains coming out, I am so fucking glad that people are following Dr. Bonnie Hendry’s advice and staying home for anything “non-essential”,
Not.
Morons and entitled assholes.
”sorry to interrupt you, but I just have a quick question,…”
-“Sir, I am carefully instructing this gentleman on the safe operation of a machine that incorrectly used, can cause death and destruction,….”
“But it’s just a quick question,….”
– “There is a kiddie chair back there in the corner, facing the wall. You should go sit in it for a while and reflect on everything that you didn’t learn, that you didn’t learn in kindergarten”,
“But,…”
– “I said good day Sir”,…..
Brachiator
@WaterGirl:
Yep. I previously noted problems when using Firefox 88 on a Windows 10 laptop.
But I had not had problems for a while. Weird how it comes and goes.
Recently had some issues scrolling and acessing notes on an Android phone using the Brave browser.
Misterpuff
@lapassionara:
@RaflW: Point/Counterpoint was a segment on 60 minutes in the 70s.
Uncle Cosmo
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Cool. Some nice houses out there. My first apartment was just inside the western city line between US 40 and Frederick Rd. to the south.
frosty
@cain: I’m going with Jeff Daniels for range. From Gettysburg to Speed to Dumb snd Dumber.
Starboard Tack
@Brachiator:
My Dad died in June in Ohio. He was 100 and a lifelong Republican voter. The only 2 times he didn’t vote for the Republican presidential candidate was JFK and Trump. He was a WW2 vet and raised 6 kids on an educator’s pay and a second job selling insurance. He caught COVID when he was in recovery from hip surgery. He survived COVID but died a few weeks later from, well, being 100. Some of the last weeks of his life were spent isolated in COVID ward. I’ve got nothing but contempt for the heartless slugs who dismiss the suffering of others. A lot of them are Republicans like my Dad used to be.
Brachiator
@Jay:
GAI would be hideously, maybe impossibly expensive. We need to get the virus under control so that the economy can have an opportunity to rebound.
Uncle Cosmo
On my old smartass phone his name would automatically be respelled as Schemer. Looks like Otto Korrekt got the memo before we did… ;^D
Jay
@Starboard Tack:
I’m so sorry,
and fuck covid and every fucking one of it’s enablers.
BR
@Brachiator:
There’s a halfway point that could be worth trying — $500/month universal basic income. Not enough for anyone to live on, but a huge boost, along with a $15/hr minimum wage. Call it Biden Bucks, eventually people would want to expand it.
Jay
@Brachiator:
the Saskatchewan trial, while limited, had a 2.7 ROI.
turns out that a significant number of people, freed from menial minimum wage labour, turn out to be creators, and with a little funding, job creators.
Brachiator
@Starboard Tack:
My condolences on the death of your father. It has been terrible to watch this terrible virus get closer and consume people. It has affected a few relatives, who fortunately came through.
It has been sad to learn of other Balloon Juice folk who have been affected by the pandemic.
And it is not just the virus itself. The son of a guy who owns a local eatery was hospitalized for a time because of depression. Just the strain of the lock down got to him.
I do not understand the people who want to pretend that the pandemic is nothing, or is no big deal.
Geoduck
@Geminid: You might enjoy Brennan’s later parodying his Clanton character in the James Garner spoof Support Your Local Sheriff.
Starboard Tack
@Jay:
ditto Brachiator
Thanks. He knew he was about done even before the COVID and it maybe knocked him off a few months early. It’s the needless suffering I detest. But that’s what drives modern American conservatism, isn’t it? If you suffer, it’s because you deserve to.
Brachiator
@Jay:
I would like to learn more about this. Was it Finland that halted a study after a short time? Whichever country it was did not see significant success.
But I favor all kinds of innovative short term relief programs. I think the Fed and key Biden staffers support this as well.
sab
@Starboard Tack: I am so sorry aboit your dad. My dad is 96, has mild dementia, and has been stuck in his nursing home for almost a year now. No rides, no visits, no holidays. He is in good health. We have a private duty nurse for him so we know he is okay.
I don’t know if he will even recognize me when I can finally get in to see him. I don’t blame the state at all for locking us out and him in, but this sure has been a hard year, and Covid has hardly touched us compared to most people.
zhena gogolia
frosty
@Uncle Cosmo: We took one of my California friends to Obricky’s for crabs. When they brought the platter out she looked at them and said “Don’t they wash the mud off?” We then proceeded to explain about Old Bay.
The best crab cakes were at Angelina’s on Harford Road. They were gone last time I passed by a couple of years ago.
rikyrah
@Jay:
Yesss
They are learning??
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Trump has gotten a new legal team. He is now being represented by newly established law firm Powell, Giuliani, and Wood.
Here’s a quote from the team addressing the upcoming impeachment trial in the US Senate:
(This is satire in case it wasn’t obvious)
Patricia Kayden
Manchin, the Prick
Starboard Tack
@sab:
I don’t have any personal experience with dementia but used to have a friend whose mother had it. It must be really hard to see someone dissolve like that. Sorry your Dad isn’t getting the attention that would make his life more enjoyable.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Patricia Kayden:
I really hope this doesn’t come back to bite us and Manchin blows everything up because he was offended. Manchin is being a primadonna
WaterGirl
@Patricia Kayden: You may enjoy John’s thread from last night, then.
This Fucking Guy – Joe Manchin Edition
evodevo
@WaterGirl:
Still having to use the text tab…
Jay
@Brachiator:
Gateway UBI.
The ugly reality is that modern Capitalism consumes people.
UBI itself, is a “quick” fix. In Saskatchewan, the trial was way too small to drive up minimum wages and benefits, but it did reduce significantly, use of social services, lead to people using the time and money to upgrade training and get “better jobs”, create, and in a half dozen cases, create viable businesses.
Not bad for a total of 1500 participants, ranging from unhoused, to working class.
Between increased income taxes and service relief, every $1 invested in the trial program resulted in $2.70 dollars in either tax revenue or cost savings.
Canadian dollars, still, but still dollars,
And in a Province with programs and a social safety net far broader than any Blue State.
WaterGirl
@evodevo: Appreciate the update.
I hope you guys will let me know as soon as you see a Firefox 85.something-that-is-not 85.0.
Jay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
it’s The Hill, “The Batchelor” of Beltway Punditry where it’s all personal drama, drama, drama and nobody gets a rose.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
Firefox 291.7 is releasing next week //.
Ken
In a certain movie genre, she would wake up chained to some overly-elaborate mechanism, and a video would start playing showing a puppet saying “If you think about it, everyone is going to die anyway….”
Jay
@Ken:
while it sucked the life force out of her, aging her 50 years in one 2 minute montage.
WaterGirl
@Jay: Ha!
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I still on occasion get the text box and have to click the visual tab if it’s available. But the text box commenting works fine for me as well, it just looks different in the commenting area. So it’s a PITA, especially on the phone but that it far rarer and either box works it’s just different. Now if commenting didn’t work….
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
I’ve said for a long time that it’s difficult to see what is right in front of you if you have your head stuck in an orifice where the sun doesn’t shine and the smell is less than pleasant and if it’s in there your eyes could only see backwards in any event.
Uncle Cosmo
@frosty: G&M Lounge down on Hammonds Ferry Rd. does an excellent crab cake. (In fact everything I’ve had there has been yummy.) Ten minutes’ drive from BWI, convenient parking. Pricey – what seafood is not these days – but a great place for a welcome-to/farewell-from-Bawlmer-hon feast.