Here we go again, citizens!
The Democrats serving as impeachment managers are Representatives Raskin, DeGette, Cicilline, Castro (Joaquin), Swalwell, Lieu, Plaskett, Neguse, and Dean. (Thanks, Baud!) The Trump defense strategy on the Republican side is rather less clear to me, but I assume we’ll hear from the kooks in the Sedition Caucus, which comprises most House Republicans.
Open thread!
PS: Sorry for squashing not one but TWO posts, but I’m gonna leave this one up for impeachment hearings discussions.
Tim F
ITMFA
dmsilev
It’s only been a week. One hell of a week. Time is weird now, isn’t it?
Hell, it’s only been a week and a half since Trump made that phone call trying to pressure Georgia into “finding” enough votes to tip the result there.
Betty Cracker
@dmsilev: One request I have for Biden-Harris to add to their Augean Stables cleaning to-do list: please make time behave again.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: Unfortunately, time is speeding up.
citizen dave (aka mad citizen)
Insert generic sequel joke here (too tired to come up with one)
Something tells me the orange one will be too tired and lazy to even come up with a nickname for the lead House manager. Of course he has no where to share it online. I’m surprised he hasn’t tried to appropriate Pence’s twitter account.
TS (the original)
The introduction:
Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States, for High Crimes and Misdemeanors
Sounds about right.
Tony Jay
“Guilty? Damned right he’s guilty! Guilty of loving this country… Too. Damned. Much!!!”
The hooded man in the Public Gallery, whom authorities later identified as one John Barron, a frequent caller to Talk Radio from Queens, New York.
MattF
NYT article about Jamie Raskin. As I’ve noted before, he’s my rep.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
The only thing I’m wondering is how many Republicans are going to vote for this.
hueyplong
@Tony Jay: No, that lie would imply, if only slightly, that it’s about the country.
A true John Barron would talk about how the country is guilty of loving Trump. Because it’s all about Trump. Always.
I look forward to the day when the few people with that last name are all applying for legal name changes.
David Fud
The idea that these defending clowns need an investigation is pretty laughable. The speech is on tape, the crime happened RIGHT WHERE THEY ARE STANDING. What, exactly, would an investigation tell them, except adding to that already impeachable act?
mali muso
FFS, I have already muted the proceedings. Some idiot from Oklahoma droning on about “rush to judgement” and “due process”.
Spanky
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
And how many of them are going to ride this thing the whole way down, yee-hawing like Slim Pickens on the A-bomb. My bet is more of the latter than the former, BUT more rats may flee as more revelations come out. Epiphanies from Epiphany, as it were.
zhena gogolia
Dammit, people, I have work to do!
To be Frank
what is the old saw about getting people to see some true thing when their livelyhood depends on that thing not being true
Leto
@hueyplong: slight tweak:
hueyplong
@Leto: Yes, and someone will come behind you and tweak it because nothing we mortals can conjure is ever self-centered enough for the pig.
MattF
@To be Frank: Upton Sinclair.
mali muso
@zhena gogolia: I’ve resigned myself to unproductivity until next week at the earliest. Limping along and getting critical things done as needed, but all of my lofty goals for 2021 are on pause.
M31
at first I wasn’t sure that Steny Hoyer’s long recap of the previous impeachment was a good idea, but he’s refuting the GOP talking point that it’s all “political” and “a rush to judgement”, so maybe it’s good
M31
ugh Steny talking up Liz Cheney grosses me out, even though I get it
Nicole
@M31:
Yeah, me too. I’m so tired of Republican politicians getting treats and pats on the head for doing the bare minimum of not pooping all over the floor.
Patricia Kayden
Nelle
My lack of foresight bites. Why did I only pick up one “Impeached” button at the Iowa caucuses last year? I hope to need a second one shortly. Where do I wear it in this time of enmity and retribution? On my robe, going to the kitchen, to the basement, even out to the garage.
Patricia Kayden
Chetan Murthy
@Nelle: on the pooper, natch!
Nicole
de Blasio announced NYC is seeking to cut all contracts with the Trump Org. Council member Mark Levine said it should be totally legal, as there are provisions for companies breaking the law losing their contracts with the city. I’m sure Trump will still sue (although the skating rinks and carousel contracts end in April anyway, although the golf course goes until 2032 when Trump would likely be pushing up daisies). However, as the state is also looking into having Rudy disbarred, I’m not sure who Trump will find to represent him.
M31
OK so the GOP strategy is to call it a riot not an insurrection, and to ask for a ‘bipartisan’ commission to study it?
LOL ‘wow how could this have happened I HAVE NO IDEA’
push it off into the future and hope it becomes old news, that’s actually probably their best shot
dmsilev
Apparently “put the people before politics” is the GOP catchphrase of the day. It’s right up there with “let’s not bicker and argue about who killed who; this is supposed to be a happy occasion.”
Central Planning
Some bobo rethuglican from Missouri: “Won’t someone think of the people??”
mali muso
Yeah you can miss me with that abuser language right there. Don’t impeach or it might inflame his followers to riot again! Fuck that noise.
Low Key Swagger
Via Pophat: https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1349348254694170626
mali muso
“violence on both sides”
FFS!
dmsilev
“If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate.”
dmsilev
I should add that listening to this while simultaneously doing a final proof check on a long document is not good for my mental health.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Patricia Kayden: Because right now we’re all unified, and not expecting that the party of losers is about to storm the Capitol and every state house in the nation. In a unified way.
M31
who is this piece of shit from SC?
“there is responsibility on both sides of the aisle”
yeah right
so their other ploy is to refer to ‘the violence of the last 9 months’ to make it ‘BUTWHATABOUTBLM’
fuck you
dmsilev
Jim Jordan, making a bid for the coveted position of “most loathsome Representative.”
M31
fucking Jim Jordan with his mask below his nose, another piece of shit
mali muso
@dmsilev: I muted him but even watching him spew filth on the closed captioning has me enraged.
Kattails
There’s a video up on The Bulwark site–yes, I’ve been checking in on Bill Kristol lately–anyway, it’s 6 minutes of “The Trump Mob in Their Own Words“. I listened to two guys and had to quit, might take it a few seconds at a time.
dmsilev
“whataboutism” makes its appearance in House debate.
M31
Jim McGovern said “whataboutism” hahahaha
MomSense
I fucking loathe all of these Republicans. Dog help me I don’t think I will ever get over all of this bullshit.
mali muso
@MomSense: Come sit (6 feet) by me. I am so incensed.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@M31: Does that qualify for a $500 fine under the new House masking rules?
Was that rule passed? Googling tells me it was to be voted on last night, before the 25th amendment vote.
MattF
@dmsilev: There’s a group of politicians who are trying to be like Trump. Hawley is the primary case, but Jordan is close.
Another Scott
@dmsilev: rofl.
WaterTruth – the universal solvent.Cheers,
Scott.
M31
you can tell these fucking Republicans don’t wear masks regularly — they don’t have ones that fit and they are always falling off
it means they are really shitty people, but we knew that
BretH
Nitpick. Masks that have a wire at the nose prevent the mask from slipping down. Why is this such a difficult concept? I get annoyed seeing representatives yanking their masks up all the time.
WaterGirl
I have to get some work this morning, so I can’t watch. Has the voting started? If not, can someone let us know when it has?
Immanentize
Damn. Again, get a little work done. Three posts!
Best cartoon I’ve seen in a forever:
M31
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: someone should sit there with a bell and a counter and every time it slips it’s another $500 (or if I’m remembering right) and then $2500 for the next offense
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: They’re still making short speeches. No idea on when the vote will be.
M31
Dems need to use their time better, they keep getting cut off.
dmsilev
@M31: How many people are actually watching the speeches? I doubt they make much difference one way or the other.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
Not yet. C-SPAN says:
First Votes on Impeachment Approx 10:15am ET
Final Vote on Impeachment Expected Approx 3:30pm ET
M31
@dmsilev: yeah, just wishing the dems were tighter in their statements, but the last few have been fine
Immanentize
@Nicole: So, my University gave Rudy an honorary degree (and maybe 100k?) Six or seven years back. I am spending my already wasted time working up a rabble to have that recinded.
Captain C
@Immanentize: “Dear U, your continued support of the deranged traitor Rudy “Trial by Combat” Giuliani is unacceptable. In addition to not ever giving you money again, I must now question the value of my own degree, as must every other alum.”
Ken
Send the Sergeant at Arms around with a staple gun.
dmsilev
Looks like this round of speeches is just about done.
Cheryl Rofer
Quite a few photos coming through of the Capitol halls today.
mali muso
lol at characterizing this as a “rush to judgement”. Ugh. Let’s finish these stupid speeches and get to the voting.
MazeDancer
Isn’t it great that we don’t have to listen to the soon to be Two Time Loser live tweet the proceedings.
p.a.
You go Joe!
Nicole
@Immanentize: I think it’s worth the effort. I’m glad you are trying.
I’ve told the story here before, but one of the most comforting moments for me, as an NYC’er, in the wake of 9/11 was when Giuliani floated the idea of “postponing” the 2001 Mayoral election and him staying on for an unspecified amount of time and NYC’ers all over the five boroughs joining together to give that idea a hearty Bronx cheer.
Old School
Closing statements going on now.
guachi
Saying “rush to judgement” is weird for coming from someone that wouldn’t change his mind, anyway.
Yesterday I said I’d be surprised if more than 5 Republicans voted to impeach and CNN is currently saying that 5 Republicans are voting to impeach.
Woodrow/asim
YES! Obama’s jettisoning of Organizing for America as an ongoing, active force was, perhaps, his biggest failure as a leader of the Party.
Cheryl Rofer
This is not going to come out today, or probably even this week, but what I want to know more than anything about January 6 is
Patricia Kayden
WaterGirl
@Nicole: Is a Bronx cheer not a cheer?
M31
OK, let’s go.
Impeach the motherfucker voting in progress
Old School
Now having a Procedural Vote on Beginning Debate on Impeachment of Pres. Trump
Republicans are trying to add a bipartisan commission on attack.
This will be followed by another vote to hold two hours of debate.
Cheryl Rofer
narya
@Cheryl Rofer: That second one made the hair on my arms stand up
ETA: to clarify, i mean the Black soldiers at the Rosa Parks statue. That is just beautiful.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: oh Watergirl. Where are you from?
A Bronx cheer is a large noisy sound of farting.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@WaterGirl: A Bronx cheer is like a cheer in roughly the same sense that a “Glasgow kiss” is like a kiss. More specifically, it’s also referred to as a “raspberry”. (The Bronx cheer, not the Glasgow kiss. The latter is a headbutt to the nose.)
dww44
@M31: It has long bugged me that it seems that even Congressional Dems feel that they have to highlight (above all others) someone/ones from the Republican side to confer any legitimacy on a process. Particularly in this case when the crime is so plainly viewable by every American.
Democrats will finally have arrived at the seat of power this century when they no longer feel it necessary to preface their remarks with the name and words of a Republican who agrees with them. I honestly hope to live to see that come to pass. I’m no longer young.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: I’m a Chicago girl, and I
haveHAD never heard of that.Ceci n est pas mon nym
@WaterGirl: Could be a regional thing. Maybe you know it as “blowing a razzberry / raspberry”?
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: Protecting America from Americans. I bet the racist party forgot how many people of color are in the military. They only know the aggrieved white beer gut types.
Not that there is anything wrong with beer guts. 🍻
Matt McIrvin
@Cheryl Rofer:
As others have said here, it’s curious that this doesn’t seem to inhibit Democrats, even though there are obviously Trump-mad people in their districts too and you know they get death threats all the time.
Immanentize
@dww44: Or, maybe Democrats really believe in trying to find common ground with political opponents?
JanieM
@narya: It made me cry. What a juxtaposition in terms of the implications of the statue and the picture, and the reason the Guardsmen are there.
Matt McIrvin
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: As in “Heil [fart] Heil [fart] right in Der Führer’s face.”
Immanentize
AOC is clearly a jackal:
MattF
Palate cleanse. 30 seconds of Nancy.
Immanentize
Nancy Smash brought the heat!
ETA missed it by that much, MattF kudos!
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer:
3. Show me the money..
Subsole
@Immanentize: Huh.
》》》The More You Know~☆
mrmoshpotato
Even less clear than the Asking-Ukraine-To-Make-Up-Bullshit-On-Biden-Is-Fine impeachment?
Ya know – the first impeachment of this Soviet shitpile mobster conman.
The Pale Scot
@hueyplong:
Why’d he name son that? /s
mrmoshpotato
@Patricia Kayden:
Hahaha. Well done, Neil.
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: If that (still unnamed) January 6 Republican is to be believed, Trump’s strategy will be to threaten the families of the members of Congress to make sure they vote his way. I assume he picked that up from TV shows about the mob.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yep!
The Thin Black Duke
@Immanentize: What’s sad is the fact that some POC join the military because college is too damned expensive.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Cheryl Rofer: Makes me sad that it has come to this, but so very relieved that they are there.
I had heard that the 17th was a day that the Q cult had been talking about (because Q is the 17th letter of the alphabet) and so I’ve been having a constant low-grade anxiety about the upcoming weekend.
To say nothing of course about the 20th. I have a very high-grade anxiety about that.
Kattails
@WaterGirl: You’ve probably done it. Stick your tongue out of closed lips and then blow. Kids do it all the time as a Phooey on You gesture.
Ken
Oh, I’m totally in favor of that. In fact I’m rather looking forward to two years or more of hearings, in both the House and Senate, on the events of January 6, and all involved in them. But pass the articles of impeachment first.
WaterGirl
@MattF: @Immanentize: Let’s make it three. That is worthy of an embed!
Ken
By the way, who do I talk to about having January 6, 2021 bumped up above December 7, 1941 in the “a day that will live in infamy” listings?
Nicole
@WaterGirl:
Well, Chicago is quite a distance from the Bronx. I grew up in the Alabama section of Pennsylvania and I’m not 100% sure I knew the term prior to moving to NYC.
Really, truly, though, the city’s collective “geddafukouttaheah” to Giuliani’s proposal was the moment when I knew NYC would be okay.
Steeplejack (phone)
I hope they allow Adam Schiff some time for a short “I told you fuckers!” speech.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
After a year of doing nothing, Trump’s CDC drops a bomb on what is left of the travel industry by this “negative test within 72 hours of inbound air transit”.
This includes American passport holders.
Its an impossibility, and the waves of airline and hotel bankruptcies without meaningful stimulus will be huge, and triggered to explode at the beginning of the Biden term. Wife is devastated – she actually has some pent up demand that she was scheduling. Ain’t no way that a lot of destinations will be capable of processing outbound testing with a 72 hour turnaround.
I guess we’ll all be expected to pay fat rednecks to “See Rock City, See Ruby Falls” as we load our kids into the woody for an uninspiring drive around this fucking benighted hellhole.
debbie
@dmsilev:
No one else is even in the running. Jordan is by far the most loathsome. I almost drove off the road screaming at the radio when he started up with The Big Steal.
JanieM
@Cheryl Rofer:
Just below the tweet that included that picture is one from Hakeem Jeffries saying:
I can’t wait to read more sentences like this.
Sloane Ranger
What gets up my nose is Republican after Republican getting up and talking about “healing” and looking “forward, not back”. As if they haven’t spent the last 2 months whining about the election and trying to change its result.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
Jesus. My back hurts just looking at that photograph.
mali muso
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Dammit.
Well, maybe the vaccine will make this moot sooner rather than later?
Matt McIrvin
@JanieM: DC? I suppose that means his dad can just pardon him, if he moves quickly enough.
Kattails
My Dad was Navy, just short term WWII, but between that and Stonekettle I’ve gotten into the habit of checking the twitter feeds of some retired Navy vets who despise Trump and the current state of the GOP. And boy are they ever…direct and to the point in their comments. @CMCRET, Old Salty Chief, Malcolm Nance. I would be just weeping with laughter to see any of them standing at the podium dressing down the Republicans they view as traitors. Those guys would crawl out of the chambers having to change their undies.
mrmoshpotato
@M31:
Amen!
Say it louder for those
in the backwho want to hear it again – but louder.debbie
@WaterGirl:
NPR is broadcasting the hearings. You could listen while working.
guachi
Several of my RW FB friends are pushing the “both sides” stuff pretty hard. There is zero acknowledgement that what happened on 1/6 was bad. It’s all just lazy “both sides”.
Immanentize
@The Thin Black Duke: I know. It is one way to get ahead, but a rather dangerous one at times. I wonder why the free college people have not picked up on this insight?
I guess it leads in too many hard directions. Would the military be significantly hurt if there was free college? Should we consider mandatory public service (which I think I support for it’s democratizing values). Free college for two years of service (like Israel?).
debbie
@mali muso:
Remind me of the due process accorded to the police officer beaten with the American flag? //
Baud
@guachi:
They wouldn’t have engaged in sedition if we hadn’t won the election. So both sides are at fault.
mali muso
@debbie:
I know, right?
Kattails
Has anyone linked to this video of the insurrectionists talking about the plan including schematics of the capitol?
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Dropping that bomb now could be a sign of malice on the Trump administration’s part, but it’s on par with requirements from other countries – specifically, Greece has had that 72-hour-test requirement in place since November. That’s part of why I can’t return home even to see the people most important to me.
And as for the 72-hour test turnaround itself, I don’t know about some places, but in Greece, you can get a PCR lab test turnaround within 24 hours. I’ve had to take several tests, and family members have also had to take tests, and the only time it took over 24 hours was when there was a weekend in the way (the last time, when my mom got worried that she might have caught it, the lab tests came back the same afternoon).
Honestly, my impression has been that the lag time in testing has been a sign of problems Stateside in particular, specifically with criminal lack of planning at the upper executive levels of government.
sanjeevs
This video really shows the coordination of the insurrectionists
https://mobile.twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1349371374507155456
Around 2:29 one of the protesters with a megaphone tells the crowd that Muriel Bowser called for the National Guard and the Defence Department said “No thank you”
How did he know that?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@mali muso:
The problem is going to be the failures and closures across the entirety of the industry. Lost airline routes, collapsed airlines, a shuttered cruise industry, failed tour operators and vendors worldwide. There will be a bare little left to build back up on, even in luxury sectors.
She suffered and stuck with the industry after 9/11, and it took years to recover that volume. Now? She’ll be at retirement age before recovery.
She’s got a 35 year career as a high school graduate with a special kit of intimate knowledge of destinations and offerings with a global list of contacts. Self-taught at sales – and was a six figure earner for several years now, after being in the high fives for years prior.
Now, she’s got nothing, is demoralized and has no idea what to pick up in the future.
Betty Cracker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That sucks. I’m sorry. :
ETA: If we had a functional government, hard-hit industries would get the help they need to survive. So maddening.
mali muso
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I hear you loud and clear. I’m in international education myself (study abroad, international students, etc.) and it’s going to be a crapshoot here as well. :(
Chyron HR
@guachi:
At the risk of both sidesing it, you’re kind of to blame here.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken:
Or – he’s a mobster.
WaterGirl
@Kattails: Holy shit.
MazeDancer
@Steeplejack (phone): Yes, Mr. Schiff needs to eloquently remind them this is their last chance to erase their previous failures
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Bruce K in ATH-GR:
I’m supposing that a key workaround would come from rapid funding and development of vendors in as many places as possible – assuming that the resources are there to do it.
I have real concerns about a quick ramp up in the Caribbean and some of the Pacific islands.
I’m glad to hear that Greece has it’s act straight – we have a placeholder “hope to be able to do it” trip to Crete set in September using our accumulated miles (every other plan has blown up this year).
I envy your lifestyle there, BTW. Had amazing fun the year before last.
WaterGirl
TomatoQueen
@Nicole: “…
I’m so tired of Republican politicians getting treats and pats on the head for doing the bare minimum of not pooping all over the floor.” applause and nominated for rotating tag
Omnes Omnibus
@mali muso: They’re inside and it’s warm. They are fine.
mrmoshpotato
@JanieM: One of the replies –
Almost Retired
Absolute crickets of late from the RWNJs on my Facebook feed (mostly High School classmates and a couple drunk uncles). They originally mumbled something about BLM, but that didn’t seem to stick. Even the dumbest among them can’t defend this traitor.
NickM
@Kattails: Very interesting. The woman with the bullhorn directing them about how to find members of Congress knew what she was doing. This was well-planned.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack (phone):
WE HAVE PROVED OUR CASE NOW DO IMPARTIAL JUSTICE AND CONVICT HIM
Captain C
@Ken: Or perhaps the Russian Mob’s threats on his own family, probably when he tried to skip out on his debts to them.
geg6
@Nicole:
I’m from the almost Appalachian section of PA, 30 or so miles northwest of Pittsburgh, and I’ve heard that term all my life. Maybe it’s because I’m old? I don’t know your age, but just guessing.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: At the moment, there are roadblocks in place against travel to Greece, but a lot of them are due to the current lockdown. More generally, the only way my parents and brother were able to escape New York to come to Greece this past summer was by leveraging the fact that my mom’s a Greek national, my dad’s married to her, and my brother has been working to claim Greek citizenship as the son of a native Greek. Greece is only accepting travelers from a limited number of countries outside the EU right now, and the US isn’t on that list.
I firmly believe that the US needs to build up its own testing capacity by an awful lot. It’ll mean a lot of surge capacity lying fallow when we’re not in a pandemic situation, but we’ve learned the hard way that we *need* that surge capacity.
Fingers crossed for your wife, and don’t give up hope about Crete – Greek vaccination is ramping up, and Crete looks like it’s a relatively low-risk zone even now.
jnfr
@mali muso:
I’m keeping it mostly muted too.
Let’s make this an annual holiday and impeach Trump every year forever!
Peale
@Matt McIrvin: I’m going to guess that Death Threats to Democrats take the form of angry consituents calling their offices and saying that they are going to kill them. The GOP death threats are probably made on their personal cell phones from a person who is parked outside their grandchild’s school with a photo of him or her on the monkeybars.
Salty Sam
@geg6:
I remember learning the term “Bronx Cheer” from the pages of MAD Magazine in the 60’s…
dogwood
I don’t have a clue how the GOPers are going to vote. But I have to admit freshman Nancy Mace (Rep. SC) gets some props for calling Marjorie Taylor Greene “QAnnon lady.”
p.a.
Educalingo
WHAT DOES BRONX CHEER MEAN IN ENGLISH?
TMI possibly
Kattails
Buddy just emailed me that heard on MSNBC, troops deployed for the inauguration will be carrying live ammo, says you have to have military background or vet to know how serious this is. Raven? Leto? Ruckus?
Baud
@Kattails:
I don’t have a military background, but I’d imagine they want to have maximum deterrence, as well as maximum ability to respond swiftly.
Ramalama
@Kattails: Good list.
Here are links to their individual profiles fwiw:
Maclcolm Nance: https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance?s=20
Old Salty Chief: https://twitter.com/old_osc?s=20
Retired Master Chief – https://twitter.com/CMCRET?s=20
raven
@Kattails: An M-16 , or whatever they are called now, is just a club without ammo. There is no way I’d put these troopers in the line of fire without it.
Ken
@Peale: If it weren’t so monstrous, it would be almost amusing that when the Republicans say “we’re getting death threats”, the Democrats say “Yes, and? We’ve all been getting them for years.”
Scout211
I posted this in a dead thread. Will repost it here:
This investigative report and analysis by USA Today reporters of what went wrong, moment by moment is chilling. They have a timeline (that even now is being updated) of the many failures on that day by law enforcement and government officials. The report includes many videos I had not yet seen (including one showing the rioter throwing the fire extinguisher that hit Officer Sicknick in the head). Chilling.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2021/01/13/capitol-riot-law-enforcement-failure-analysis/6601142002/
Ken
@Salty Sam: I think I may have learned “Bronx Cheer” from a science fiction novel. Possibly Heinlein?
Steeplejack (phone)
@zhena gogolia:
If only he had said that before! 🙄
JanieM
@Ken: I’m pretty sure I learned it as a very young child in Ohio in the context of being a baseball fan. ;-)
Salty Sam
@Ken: yup, I remember the same. Don’t remember which one though. Might have been referenced in several.
Nicole
@geg6:
I grew up in South Central PA. It may also be that my family was just much not into the use of slang. On the one hand, it was probably good growing up not ever hearing the adults in my life using racist or sexist words, or swearing at other people, but on the other hand, I remember kids using bad words in school and me feeling stupid because I had absolutely no idea what they meant (I was very confused the first time my best friend flipped someone the middle finger and the boys she flipped it at both went, “OOOOOOOOOOH!”). I learned most of my store of bad language from reading the sizable collection of pop culture novels my grandparents had in their attic.
I would have gotten in a lot of trouble from my mom if she saw me give a Bronx cheer to anyone.
Uncle Cosmo
@raven: And it will still be no more than a club so long as the ammunition is carried separately. It becomes a lethal weapon if and when a
clipmagazine filled with live rounds has been inserted. Should it come to that, then the fit has really hit the shan.(Correct?)
MisterForkbeard
@Old School: If they WANT a bipartisan commission on the attack to investigate it, I’m all for including that so long as it’s public and no one who voted for insurrection gets to be on it.
In addition to impeachment and the ongoing criminal investigations, possible expulsion of Gosar/Brooks/etc.
Just Chuck
@WaterGirl: “Are you
taking notes onvideo recording a criminal conspiracy?!”zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack (phone):
He did. I’m quoting him from before.
Just Chuck
@raven: I believe the standard rifle these days is the M4 Carbine.
Kattails
@raven: I get that, and was kind of surprised that this was an issue, but it popped up and I just reacted. Should have just emailed my buddy back and said “and? you expected blanks? “
SFAW
@Ken:
Me, too. I’m especially looking forward to the Rethugs demanding that the commission include an investigation of Hillary’s e-mail server, so we can FINALLY get the QTRUTH! Maybe include Jack Posobiec on the commission?
[NB: In case it wasn’t obvious, only my first sentence was serious.]
raven
@Uncle Cosmo: Pretty obvious, I’m sure they have ROE.
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
I love it! I’ll remember this one, but I don’t hang out with people who will get it since I retired.
raven
@Just Chuck: Well if I’m going to have to butt stroke someone give me back my M-14.
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
@Matt McIrvin: Cultists hate apostates more than even sworn enemies. They don’t want their fellow brainwashed members getting ideas.
raven
@Kattails: Oh anything like that will cause someone to pipe up.
Old School
@MisterForkbeard: I’m sure they don’t actually want a commission. It was only to delay the impeachment vote.
Starting tomorrow, I’m sure it’ll be time to move forward rather than to have a commission bringing up old wounds.
Delaying the vote in order to have the commission was defeated (I think the vote was party line) and the vote to officially start the debate is wrapping up now (also party line).
Steeplejack (phone)
@zhena gogolia:
Madam, you cut me—you cut me to the quick. Is that the low regard in which you hold my wit? 😿
PJ
@The Thin Black Duke: A lot of Americans, of every ethnic background, have joined the military because college was too expensive. When I was getting out of high school, that was the main selling point that the military used when recruiting (and I knew students for whom that was the main or only reason they signed up).
I wonder how, if enacted, Biden’s plan to have free public university tuition to kids coming from families who make less than $125,000/yr will affect the military.
Just Chuck
@raven: Whatever equipment strokes butts the best, I guess…
MisterForkbeard
@Almost Retired: I’ve been hearing some “leftists are authoritarian and I can’t stand their self-righteous hypocrisy over 1/6” and sometimes “Democrats are the real problem because they forced Twitter to kick off Trump”.
But that’s as far as they’ll go. I do see a lot of “Yeah, but Trump never specifically told people to riot and he did specifically tell people to go home, how is THAT inflammatory libs?” Which I generally respond to with a jacking off motion. Not much else you can say to that.
Subsole
@Kattails:
Not a vet, but live ammo means not blanks, but full, jacketed bullets. The kind we issue in combat zones. Designed to cut through body armor, walls, cars, other cover.
It is kill you dead on the spot stuff.
It means the folks in green are most emphatically not screwing around.
The Moar You Know
@Kattails: Well, gate guards at most military installations are issued live ammo and have instructions on when to use it. But it means they’re not just there for visual deterrence.
It also means that the rioters are not going to be able to get face to face with those guys. I’m sure some variant of the seven-yard rule will be in effect.
People are going to get killed; that’s part of the right’s goal. They want some martyrs.
mrmoshpotato
@Just Chuck: I looked that up, and now I can’t make foreplay jokes about it. :(
Subsole
@mrmoshpotato: Not with that attitude you can’t.
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
Thanks for that addition, he says, patting his beer gut!
mrmoshpotato
@Subsole: LOL!
oatler.
Jordan never fails to satisfy my hate- itch.
Ivan X
@MisterForkbeard: that is a perfect response. I have a friend who spouts this nonsense. It’s a problem. That answer might help.
SiubhanDuinne
@oatler.:
Jordan is the very definition of sleazy weaselly nasty skanky hypocritical horridness.
Gravenstone
@M31: Saw a headline that Gym Jordan wants Liz Cheney removed from her leadership post for planning to vote for impeachment. Good luck with that, sport. Oh, and don’t go shooting with her dad anytime soon either…
Baud
Via LGM
Splitting Image
In the spirit of “looking forward, not back”, remember that back when most people assumed Hillary Clinton was going to win the election over Trump, Republicans were openly saying that they would have the impeachment articles ready to go on Day 1.
Warblewarble
76 year old Sandi Bachom is a true hero and contrasts sharply with the bellyaching ReThugs.
MisterForkbeard
@Ivan X: I’ve actually tried to reason with these folks. Bill Moyers has a pretty excellent timeline of how things went down: Accusations by Trump ahead of time, how those accusations were disproved (in many case by Republican elected officials), and then it gets into the announcements ahead of time by Trump and various Republicans about the rally, Democrat theft, and so on.
It then dives into a very close timeline (to the minute) of when things started going wrong. When the crowd started getting violent, when Muriel Bowser asked for national guard aid, when Trump sent people over to get Pence and “get rid of Lynne Cheney”, and when the capitol itself was invaded, etc. It includes repeated notices of when aid was requested and denied and by whom. And it shows that Trump encouraged it all and then denied help when things went sour for THREE HOURS. When the national guard was finally mobilized he issued a limpdicked “You’re all perfect and correct and this was stolen but go home”.
And then three hours later he was pumping up his followers with more lies and encouraging them to keep fighting. So the timeline also includes twitter and facebook suspensions and the company’s stated reasons for doing so, directly against examples of Trump quotes. It’s exhaustive.
I’ve run through this timeline with people patiently. There’s no other reasonable conclusion than Trump either willfully fucked around to endanger congressfolk and police because he didn’t want to piss off his followers, or that he fomented the entire thing and didn’t tell anyone to go home until it was clear it had failed.
The uniform response has been “I don’t believe that” or “The Left is the real monster, look what they did with Twitter” or “none of this would have happened if Dems hadn’t stolen the election”. NONE of them are interested in grappling with the situation or their own culpability.
So yeah, a jackoff motion is appropriate. That’s what they’re doing.
SiubhanDuinne
Debbie Lesko: Loon, crazy loon, or craziest loon ever?
H.E.Wolf
I agree.
Poem from 50 years ago, in her honor: “I Like to Think of Harriet Tubman”, by Susan Griffin. I recommend reading the final stanzas, if there’s not time for the whole thing.
https://www.angelfire.com/ca/iloveDave/mysg.html
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard:
Can you provide a link to that?
Tony Jay
Can we just fast forward to the penultimate scene where House belatedly diagnoses the Republicans with a fatal case of Rashomon Syndrome and then goes to a strip-bar and gets out of his gourd on Vicodin because, what, he’s supposed to save them? Get ‘t fook.
geg6
@Nicole:
Yeah, my parents rarely swore and we weren’t allowed to use slang. My mom was a journalist and was extremely picky about language. There is so much Western PA slang and a definite accent, but my mom would punish us for using them or sounding like an uneducated “Yinzer.” Doesn’t mean we didn’t know them all or use them around friends, but never, ever, ever at home.
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: https://billmoyers.com/story/insurrection-timeline-first-the-coup-and-then-the-cover-up/
I misspoke – it doesn’t cover too many actions prior to 1/6. That’s in other articles. But the whole thing is incredibly damning, and they really should make it an infographic.
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard: Thank you for the link.
MomSense
Fuck Matt Goetz
Ivan X
@MisterForkbeard: precisely. What I have found is that among my Trump apologist (or possibly closet enthusiast) friends, they’re fundamentally unserious and disingenuine. They won’t own it. After Wednesday, when I pointed out that this is all on Trump to another one of them, he’s just like “yeah, Trump is nuts, but I’m really just focused on markets now, have you seen what BTC is doing”. Another one couches it all in sarcasm rather than actually engage, he’s just like “I don’t care, let’s go all left, go Biden and Nancy and their version of truth, I think they all waste taxpayer money anyway”. They just won’t accept the gravity of what happened/is happening, and/or their connection to it. I don’t know why I keep trying to get them to see it the way I want them to see it, it is indeed a waste, but I love these people and it’s hard for me to accept. Thanks for the Moyers resource, super useful!
MisterForkbeard
@Ivan X: “Fundamentally unserious or genuine” is a pretty core behavioral principle, I think.
I have a highschool friend who’s a lawyer on the east coast. Not a Trumper, but a conservative who says he’s indepedent and who carefully parses each and every Republican bill and utterance… and then decides that they’re correct for precise and logical reasons and Democrats are completely in the wrong. It’s consistent. It’s also pretty clearly a case of working towards finding the answer you want and then gaslighting everyone else by saying they aren’t addressing the question intellectually.
Super annoying. But that’s the best case conservative I know, and while he’s not for impeachment he’s definitely appalled by 1/6. Just not enough to do anything about it. He’s talking about how we can’t know without a doubt that Trump meant to start an insurrection and is insurrection really the right word? It behooves us to really get this right, etc.
...now I try to be amused
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’d say there’s no loon like a Michigan loon, but other states are contending for the title.
LadySuzy
@The Moar You Know: I can’t help thinking that there are a few crazies within the ranks.