this is what has not sunk in for the alt-realitists who like to imagine themselves overthrowing the government with a bunch of haphazardly assembled mentally defective radicalized internet goons. they are now very much The Enemy of a thing they cannot conceive. good luck. https://t.co/ickXq6qwRQ
— kilgore trout, brad r’s brother (@KT_So_It_Goes) January 11, 2021
I honestly hope Kilgore Trout is right:
AKSHULLY THAT IS AWESOME THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED NOW WE ARE *FIGHTING*
that is assuredly *not* what you wanted
if the feds had been interested in following along with the deluded ramblings of people who think JFK jr is secretly controlling the white hat deep state to combat a globalist illuminati cabal of child trafficking brain fluid chemists the events of 1/6 would not have occurred
but now due to the stroke of tactical genius that led to a lethal terrorist attack on the entire representative government watched by more people than the super bowl, they are very very very much interested, and with biden taking over will only become more interested
they’ve already lost their social media group therapy sessions. they can migrate and regroup but at the cost of more and more fragmentation and worse and worse opsec making it easier and easier for the feds to find them as they hop around
the whole thing is largely about a sense of belonging and community and the feeling that they are part of an enormous movement with a place in the ecosystem. that’s all shattered beyond repair. the fragments will sustain but at ever increasing peril and cost.
in a few weeks or months they will think of 1/5 as the glory days, the pinnacle of their achievements, the halcyon era when a president name dropped them & the normals thought they were glorified ufo weirdos, and wish to god they’d never crossed the rubicon on 1/6
they will remain violent maladjusted goons & mentally unwell delusionists, they will continue to act out violently, the problem will not simply go away. but the time of banding together as a unified force is already rapidly exiting the twilight.
They finally became infectious enough to *finally* provoke an immune system response. And the fact that survivalists, Q folks, white supremacists et. al. have Voltroned together of late means they're all that much more vulnerable now.
— Nesler (@thatnesler) January 11, 2021
Semi-counter-argument:
The same (brutal) laws should absolutely apply equally to everyone, but usually don't. But I don't buy "well if we apply this brutal rule to someone who isn't poor and non-white, then public support will wane." I see no evidence of that ever happening.https://t.co/ueBotx7Erh
— MoreUnstableHat (@Popehat) January 11, 2021
The most robust and compelling example of white privilege I see is when affluent white people charged with crimes experience the entire process as CONSPIRACY OF SOMEONE OUT TO GET THEM, as opposed to, you know, a rare example of the system treating them like less fortunate people
— MoreUnstableHat (@Popehat) January 11, 2021
So I'm not saying Capitol domestic terrorists should get a special break.
I'm saying "don't celebrate horrible parts of the system just because they're being used against enemies, that's how you get and keep horrible parts of the system."
See also: perp walks.
— MoreUnstableHat (@Popehat) January 11, 2021
Feathers
Would like a review of this performance of a defense attorney speaking for his client, Capitol podium guy: Amazing moment from a defense attorney
Jackals at Law, what would you have done?
Nelle
Is everyone still in Paris?
piratedan
well, if you’re going to display your racist self both in public and on the intertubes plotting the overthrow of government and death of public officials, I think a perp walk is in order, regardless of the potential embarrassment to those very certain members of the Party of Personal Responsibility.
I do agree that there has to be some long and lengthy discussions on the surveillance state, but excising this tumor from the body politic is apparently necessary at the moment to save the patient, because they damn sure appear to be malignant.
RaflW
It would seem that much more attention will be paid. Enough? I’m not as sanguine as Trout, but also not a subject expert so, it’s just mah feeeelz.
I’m wondering if Adam or Cheryl would be willing to weigh in on wether Michael MacKay is anyone known in the field? He had a thorough and upsetting thread, but it may just be his thing. I’m not able to judge it fairly. eg:
(emphasis added)
Hungry Joe
@Feathers: A classic “I don’t remember this being covered in law school” moment.
Feathers
I think the 1/6 gang need at a minimum to be charged at the same level the BLM and water defenders were. What they did was worse, and from a standing start, as it were. The injury they faced was not real, but all in their mind. Part of the ugly dynamic here is the left being investigated and even criminally charged for legal acts. What then happens is the right does deeply criminal things and either absolves themselves or the left argues against strong consequences out of an opposition to a harsh criminal justice system.
I think it is time for harsh consequences. If we are going to reform the justice system it needs to be done with an expectation that rich white people can and do commit crimes, and for many reasons, should face harsh consequences.
Debbie(Aussie)
@RaflW: Rupert Murdoch might have something to say about fox news being captured by Russia. I know fox was all in but I think Rupert ( hate the man and his media) is just heading in the same direction.
Roger Moore
@Hungry Joe:
I think the important thing to remember is that doing a good job of representing your client doesn’t necessarily mean getting an acquittal. When the facts are truly not in your favor, it might mean trying to get the lightest possible sentence.
craigie
Color me skeptical. From Nixon onward, high-level rich white guys, especially GOP ones, get pardoned – if they even get indicted and convicted in the first place.
patrick II
dmsilev
@Feathers: “Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot, and look like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you: he really is an idiot. I implore you, send him back to his father and brothers, who are waiting for him with open arms in the penitentiary. I suggest that we give him ten years in Leavenworth, or eleven years in Twelveworth.”
Major Major Major Major
Been thinking about this all day.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
More like they will move on the the next thing, claim they were never that in Qanon, going by the example of the Flat Earthers after You Tube broke up their incestuous cuddle party. There will be a die hard core that will be around to be a pest though.
dmsilev
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
What happened? I confess to not paying much attention to the Flat Earth loons; I watched that Netflix documentary on them a year or so ago (“Behind the Curve”, which is quite good), but haven’t heard much besides that.
phdesmond
@Nelle:
not i
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@dmsilev: You Tube accidentally created the Flat Earther movement with their algorithm. For a while anytime you watched a science video You Tube would recommend a Flat Earth video next. When You Tube figured that out and the EU lit a fire under their behinds You Tube changed the algorithm and the Flat Earthers lost their victims to troll and their source of new recruits and most of them drifted away.
Parler was having the same problem too, it’s no fun being a Wingnut if their are no Libetards to upset.
Roger Moore
@Feathers:
IMO, the most important thing is to catch as many of the people involved and make sure they pay some price. This has long been my general attitude toward crime. Certainty of punishment is a much stronger deterrent to crime than harshness of punishment for those who are caught.
NotMax
Sorry, Charlie. The Feds don’t play that game.
Hawaii lawyer anticipates release of his client seen in mob that stormed U.S. Capitol
karen marie
It’s all fun and games until your thoughtless stupidity leads to tears.
John Revolta
@dmsilev: “I tell you what: I’ll take five and ten at Woolworth!”
CaseyL
The Coalition of Broken Misfit Toys needs to be broken up, imprisoned, and scattered to the winds.
But I’m still more concerned about the less insane, more intentional, and trained mofos who showed up with weapons, bombs, zip ties, and a list of targets. Those people aren’t jokes and aren’t joking. They’ve been infiltrating police and the Armed Forces for decades, they mean business, and I hope they’re the ones the Deep States is focusing on.
Mary G
Lot of cleanup still needed:
Don’t want to spend a click on the article, but the little blurb says he’s filed for retirement.
AnotherBruce
Elite capture makes Russia’s hybrid warfare against democracies work. In Ukraine, Russia captured the oligarchs, the Moscow Patriarchate church and most of the security apparatus. In the USA, Russia captured the Republican Party, evangelicals,the NRA, Fox News and Facebook.
How could we not see it? Trump is the puppet, and he is doing Putin’s work. Trump would never be up to the task of over throwing our Democracy. But Putin is. Isn’t that right ? Rafael Cruz.
Martin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Wait until they learn that Qanon is the real deep, deep, DEEP state.
John Revolta
@karen marie: This is good news. The RAGA is a nest of vipers. Their website is a scary bunch of “Liberal Agendas” and “Liberty’s Last Line of Defense” and such crap as you’d expect to see out of Breitbart rather than an association of the Attorneys General of almost 20 states. I hear there’s Koch money behind them.
Martin
@Mary G: Let me tell you something, you don’t get someone like that as head of EEOD unless you want someone like that to be head of EEOD.
It’s astonishingly difficult to masquerade in a role like that.
DOJ civil rights division needs to climb up the NYPDs colon.
HumboldtBlue
Whoever this person is, fuck you.
Just fuck you three times from Wednesday. We’re trying to install the people who could humanize our national prison shame, but woe a vicious greedy asshole get perp-walked.
RaflW
Just seeing that Ed Morrisey of Hot Air is bailing on being known as a Republican over the ‘existential crisis‘. Probably matters not. But rats are jumping ship!
HumboldtBlue
@Mary G:
Uh-huh. The klansman was just a deputy records clerk.
RaflW
@CaseyL: The FBI put out a public warning in 2006 on white supremacists infiltrating LEO orgs. It got memory-holed.
There was a second push to get traction in 2016. And we know what 2016 was like.
Third time better damn well be charming.
mrmoshpotato
@dmsilev: I wonder who ruined takes most often by cracking up.
mrmoshpotato
“March on” is doing some heavy lifting here to the point that it might pull a muscle.
Jay
ballerat
Shorter Nicholas Grossman: QAnoners you have no idea how badly you are so fucked.
I can only say, I sure hope so.
mrmoshpotato
Oh, we saw it. What kind of shitpile returns from Moscow in 1987 and takes out newspaper ads trashing the NATO alliance?
A Soviet shitpile mobster conman! That’s who! Dump has been a traitorous shitpile for over 30 years.
Mary G
There are still believers:
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G: Oh nutbags…
HumboldtBlue
Trumpism. It’s a license to do anything.
MisterForkbeard
@RaflW: I read some of the rest of the site. Allahpundit of all people is supportive of Joe Biden’s anger at the slow vaccine distribution and really mad at how badly Trump fucked it up, etc. Though he still throws a few digs in Biden’s way because of course he will.
Still, lots of cracks appearing in the Republican coalition. Maybe it’ll mean something.
EDIT: Their commenters are really going at it in that Morrissey piece. Half of them saying Ed is a traitor, the other half yelling about how these assholes let Trump take over their party and were totally fine with it.
gwangung
Second congress member to catch COVID from Republican assholes:
MisterForkbeard
@Mary G: who the Honk is Brian Anderson?
This is even more nuts than the standard stuff from conservatives. I think. It’s hard to keep track.
NotMax
@Mary G
Say what now? Vice president cannot be fired.
And should the office become vacant, it takes Congressional approval for a replacement. There is no Acting V.P. position.
Jay
Martin
@gwangung: She said the night of the attack that she was going to quarantine because she believed it was a superspreader event.
They’re all going to catch it.
Mary G
OH THESE FUCKING ASSHOLES:
Rep. Jayapal just had a knee replaced and had to climb over chairs in the gallery during the insurrection, and one of these MFs gave her Covid! Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman tweeted she has gone to the hospital to have monoclonal antibody treatment as a precaution.
Chetan Murthy
@Mary G:
Was that Rep. Watson Coleman who herself has been diagnosed with covid, who’s getting mab treatment? Or Rep. Jayapal ? Or hopefully both?
Ugh.
ETA: googling, I see it’s Rep. Watson Coleman. I trust it will work. If I were atheist, I’d pray for Both Reps. Watson Coleman and Jayapal’s swift recovery. All I can do is hope. Sigh.
gwangung
@Chetan Murthy: Either way, Congressional Republicans are assholes and fuckers.
fuckwit
They beat a cop to death. They beat him, literally to death! They beat him to death with flagpoles, a crutch, and a fire extinguisher. A cop. Who they are supposedly fans of, and many actually are. A cop, who was also a Troll supporter. They beat him to death.
This wasn’t a protest, it was a lynch mob. That was angry white middle aged men gone berserk– like they have periodically for hundreds of years in America– and demanding blood, anyone’s blood, just blood. Pure blind hate.
They killed one of their own guys. By beating him to death. I watched the video of this. I am stunned.
I have been to quite a few protests and direct actions, and if we acted even the tiniest bit like this the cops would have beaten the shit out of us, mass-arrested us, shot us with rubber bullets, or straight up shot us with live ammunition. These magats were ushered in by some cops, and easily overpowered those those who tried to fight them. And even then, they managed to beat one of their own to death.
What. The. Fuck.
RaflW
@MisterForkbeard: Their commenters are really going at it in that Morrissey piece. Half of them saying Ed is a traitor, the other half yelling about how these assholes let Trump take over their party and were totally fine with it.
This is the sort of bedtime story I sure enjoy!
Kent
Has anyone discussed the fact that every damn one of these sedition and insurrection trials are going to be held at the US District Court for the District of Columbia, which is right here, exactly an 8 minute walk from the Capitol building that they trashed?
Standing out in front of the courthouse is this monument to General George Meade, who is most famous for commanding the Army of the Potomac at the Battle of Gettysburg, where he kicked the traitor Lee’s Ass but good. (that is a picture of the courthouse behind).
And Federal juries are NEVER a laughing matter in any state. But the jury pool for this trial is going to be the registered voters in the District of Columbia which went for Biden 93% to 5.4%. Most likely they will get some very nice black secretaries and school teachers and such who live in the city that they trashed, and who’s votes they tried to nullify. And, who have been putting up with this ENDLESS racism and GOP fuckery in their district since before they were born.
Will every attorney try to get the trials moved out to another court somewhere else? Obviously. Every insurrectionist is going to be BEGGING for a change of venue. But they will be begging the majority Black and Hispanic judges on this court.
gwangung
@Kent: My only response is…good. Very good.
(I am developing a red hot rage tonight that I am trying to temper into a cold one that will look forward to feating on cold dishes.).
BR
@Martin:
Didn’t they get the vaccine a few weeks ago?
Edit: just read that Rep. Jayapal got her vaccine on Jan. 4.
West of the Rockies
@gwangung:
Rachel interviewed congressman Ryan tonight and showed photos from during the siege. A number of the folks in the photos appeared to be unmasked. I was surprised. God forbid it sounds even vaguely like I’m defending A-hole Republicans, but they weren’t the only unmasked.
Chetan Murthy
@West of the Rockies: People sometimes forget to mask, or leave their mask behind. What matters first and foremost is: when asked to mask, when offered a mask, does the person use it instantly without argument?
RaflW
@Chetan Murthy: Rep. Jayapal had video linked in her thread (can’t recall if she linked it, or if others tagged it in) showing a GOP Rep and his two staffers laughing and refusing a woman proffering masks. “Nah, nah, I don’t need it bro” was the clear energy.
Fuckers.
West of the Rockies
@Chetan Murthy:
I agree, for sure, and the Republicans turning down masks looked like smug, condescending morons.
Chetan Murthy
@West of the Rockies: “moron” is a funny synonym for “moral black hole”.
Martin
@fuckwit: He wasn’t one of their guys. They’re only loyal to those that advance their interests. Ashli Babbet was a communist lesbian antifa within an hour of her name being released.
Amir Khalid
I have lately been feeling a twinge of GAS: there’s a dark red 335-style semi-hollow electric guitar out there calling to me, and I can almost hear it.
Mary G
Some interesting stuff in the Axios newsletter linked in the tweet:
Manchin is against impeachment; Twitler told Kevin McCarthy on the phone today that Antifa murdered the cop; McCarthy said no, get over it, you lost. McCarthy position weakened – good. Republicans worried about Senate fundraising because Rick Scott is too MAGA – good.
cain
@Mary G:
Well, I trust that Manchin has his reasons – but he’s from a state that probably wouldn’t want him to impeach him either.
But the house is going to impeach him and that’s that. The senate is likely not going to convict him or even get together to do any kind of voting – but if anything happens between now and inauguration day – it will be on the GOP.
Chetan Murthy
@cain: I expect that if enough GrOPers come out for conviction, he’ll join them. But that he won’t make a symbolic vote. Which I can and will understand.
Kattails
A fellow on TikTok who’s a network administrator has a little memo out to the folks who were at the insurrection and think they can’t be tracked. “did you commit treason on Wednesday and you’re pretty sure non of the cameras caught your face and you didn’t post to social media like the other idiots? Well I’ve got bad news for you.”
Delicious. Quite cheering, actually.
Amir Khalid
@Mary G:
Trump has revealed himself as a danger to the republic. Ensuring he can never again seek federal office is a worthwhile goal. Is it so hard for Manchin to tell his constituents that?
Chetan Murthy
@Amir Khalid:
Far more of his constituents don’t want to hear that, and would actively repel that, than we fear. It is what it is. The choice isn’t between Manchin and Feinstein. Or Manchin and AOC. It’s between Manchin and Shelley Moore Capito. Suppose that she comes out for conviction: I have -no- doubt that Manchin would also vote to convict. He’s probably the highest WAR [Wins Above Replacement] Dem in the Senate, and he didn’t get that way by casting symbolic votes that alienated his constituents.
It is what it is.
Mary G
@Amir Khalid: They are the reddest state in the nation. It’s a miracle we have any Democrat in there. He voted the right way when it mattered – saved Obamacare, tried to do gun control with Toomey. Plus Cole vouches that he cares about his state. I suspect that by the time the Senate votes the memory of last week will have faded and we might not get enough Republicans.
sab
@Kattails: What an interesting accent. American combined with something else? Anyone have any idea what it is?
elm
@Mary G: Did they fire him because he was under quota? Dozens of racist postings seems like too few for the NYPD.
Chetan Murthy
Via LG&M: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-briefed-plot-overthrow-government_n_5ffd29a4c5b691806c4bf199
Great.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
The MAGA/QAnon coalition, up through January 5, was probably categorized by career civil servants as capable of causing some property damage, maybe costing some lives here and there, but not worthy of the full attention of the national security apparatus.
Well, after January 6, they’ve just been promoted from an irritant to an existential threat to the United States.
I respectfully submit that any longstanding system of government has a “Deep State”, that is usually concerned not with politics, but with keeping society from breaking down. QAnon and MAGA haven’t understood the true nature of the Deep State. The Deep State isn’t loyal to Republicans or to Democrats. They’re loyal to the fundamental concept of the United States of America.
And the bastards just made a credible, existential threat to that.
Yutsano
@sab: I’m just MASSIVELY spitballing here, but a few of his vowels and consonants sound Germanic. He also has zero issue with the “th” phoneme, which suggests either A) he was exposed to it early in life to catch it or B) he comes from a language that also has that phoneme. Based on that, he could be Icelandic. But that’s a BIG guess.
Chetan Murthy
@Yutsano: Apparently the guy who made the vid is named Clint Thomson, so … Icelandic isn’t ruled-out.
rikyrah
@gwangung:
??????
opiejeanne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: YouTube did not create the Flat Earthers. We had a Flat Earth Society at my HS in the 60s.
Ian
@Amir Khalid:
I’m assuming you have not been to West Virginia.
Amir Khalid
@Ian:
I have not.
sab
@Chetan Murthy: Facebook suggests South African now living in Texas. That makes sense.
Ian
@Amir Khalid: I didn’t mean for that to be snarky, i am sorry, i’m very tired. We are talking about a part of this country that has had a reality problem for a long, long time. Coal has wrecked that place. WRECKED. Countryside, lives, workers, environment, water, you name it. Yet in the most profoundly bizarre way they have come to embrace not just coal, but every anti-union aspect of the lives that the coal mine owners and operators have wanted them too.
I should be more careful when I say ‘they’ for West Virginians, because almost everyone I ever knew from that part of the country moved as far, far away as possible.
Chetan Murthy
@Ian: As I’m sure you’re well aware, it’s not just West Virginians. People all over the South (and now, more and more, other parts of The Heartland ™) are anti-union, pro-their-oppressors, and, well, all the things you wrote.
I know it was like that in Texas. And it seems to be like that eveyrwhere outside the cities, more and more. Depressing.
sab
@Chetan Murthy: Texas thinks it’s the Heartland? That’s weird. I always thought it thought it was a quasi-republic in the southwest. Great plains is the Heartland.
Geminid
@Mary G: Joe Manchin may oppose impeachment as a remedy. The question is, if the House impeaches trump and there is a trial, will Manchin vote to convict? He did last February, and this time there will be an even stronger case.
Martin
@sab: Nothing beats my son’s doctor that grew up in Vietnam and went to college/had his first practice in Texas. Vietnamese/Texas drawl is the funniest fucking thing you’ve ever heard in your life.
sab
@Martin: You should have heard my ex from Minnesota speaking Hebrew. He spoke it fluently, but with a Minnesota accent so strong that even I could hear it and I don’t speak Hebrew.
Patricia Kayden
Martin
I can’t think of anything that is going to test them more than a second Battle of Fort Stevens.
sab
@Kattails: In response to the Tiktok guy.
Yes, your phone follows you everywhere. We had a nasty local murder about fifteen years ago when a cop killed his mistress, hauled her body into the next county and dumped it in a remote location in a Metropark. The whole time with his cellphone in his pocket. When they found her they traced his activities for the whole day.
This shouldn’t been news to people. Twenty years at least police have been able to track cell phones
ETA He should have known better, but in the stress of the moment he forgot.
Geminid
@Martin: At the first battle of Fort Stevens in July 1864, Colonel Oliver Wendell Holmes shouted “Get down you fool!” at a civilian. It was Abraham Lincoln.
barbequebob
nevermind
karen marie
@John Revolta: Yeah, no, they’re Republicans, so it’s a given.
karen marie
@Jay: I’m delighted to hear this, but would like it expanded to smaller departments – they’re the ones more likely to condone or cover up.
chrome agnomen
@Mary G: Wyoming (my home state) says ‘hold my beer’.
Uncle Cosmo
Not really. You’re looking through the wrong end of the spyglass:
Vlad the Paler aims to humble the liberal democracies of the West. The rGOP’s goal is largely the same, to hollow out those governments until they impose no burdens on the Global Oligarchs while allowing them to hoover up the “little people’s” tax dollars whenever they need a few billion.
What the rGOP has routinely failed to comprehend (just like the German industrialists who put the Nazis in power in 1933, thinking they’d be easy to control[1]) is that Vlad is just like them except he commands death squads and nuclear weapons – and would be entirely willing to use them on the Global Oligarchs whenever it suits his purposes.
Maybe over the last few months the GOs have finally awakened to the danger and are willing to play ball with the forces of democracy. More likely they’re backing off just enough to let the Democrats handle the pandemic and restore economic growth, while they regroup toward cementing worldwide control of the Global Oligarchy by 2024 or ’28.
[1] Like the Bourbons, who had “learned nothing and forgotten nothing” (attributed to Talleyrand)
piratedan
@Mary G: I think you’re still referencing that Sam Stein out of context tweet regarding Manchin and impeachment. Manchin has since clarified, because I think Stein framed it as a question.. “which is most important COVID relief or impeachment?” and Manchin stated the former, which Stein then turned around and stated that Manchin was against impeachment. Not true, it’s not that Manchin won’t consider impeachment, its just he was asked which was a higher priority and then Stein (who has done this shit before, just like some of the other media shit stirrers who always ALWAYS find ways to get Dems to say something that they can present context free as something else entirely) took the statement to fit his frame
I’ve gotten into the habit that each time we see a Dem statement released to the media that looks completely out of touch to check the byline. There’s a cadre of about 5 to 6 of these folks out there that do their damndest to keep the both sides machine fully fed.
Uncle Cosmo
Give them the choice between DC, Baltimore City, and Prince Georges County (MD) – all majority AA, the latter IIUC the most affluent AA-majority county in the USA. I’d bet good money that PG juries would be hardest of all on them.
Uncle Cosmo
@Geminid: IIRC Harry Turtledove wrote an AH short story starting with Lincoln being killed there before he can “get down” and the result is a much longer and harsher Union occupation of the rebel states.
Yup: “Must and Shall.”