I have an idea for next week’s Medium Cool, and I want to run it past you guys to see if there’s interest.
I have been listening to the podcast Wind of Change, and I think it would be fun to talk about it on Medium Cool either next week or the week after that.
Is anyone interested? I bet MomSense will be, because I know she really liked Wind of Change, too.
Podcast Review: Hair Metal, the CIA, and a Cold War Plot: Wind of Change Is a Thrilling Ride
The elevator pitch is exquisite: What if I told you that “Wind of Change,” the sorta corny but kinda great 1990 power ballad from Scorpions, the German rock band best known for “Rock You Like a Hurricane,” might have actually been written by the CIA? And furthermore, that the song, which upon its release became a kind of anthem for peaceful revolution across Europe, was possibly a successful entry in a broader underground campaign by the West to expand its soft power against the Soviet Union during the Cold War?
That’s the mystery driving the new eight-part podcast series Wind of Change.
The podcast has an engaging premise. It’s filled with interesting people, captivating stories, musical interludes, intrigue, and history that I never knew.
Anyone interested in listening to the podcast and talking about it next week? Please let me know in the comments.
Besides that, open thread.
Barbara
I will be driving 8 hours this coming Saturday or Sunday to ferry my daughter home from NYC for the holidays, so I am looking for a good podcast to keep me company at least for the part where she isn’t in the car with me. So count me in, assuming I can find the podcast.
WaterGirl
@Barbara: Great!
I know it’s on Stitcher and Spotify, and I think also on Apple. Probably others, too, as well, but those I happen to know of.
Dan B
Sounds great for filling time until we free ourselves from the web of Covid. We’ve escaped the Orange Haired spider and his fake Golden web. We have only the Turtle to evade.
WaterGirl
I’m thinking maybe Sunday 12/27 would be better than this Sunday 12/20. That gives people 10 days to listen if they are interested. There are two bonus episodes after the 8 episodes that tell this story, but I haven’t listened to those yet.
gwangung
Huh.
Soft power is something Republicans disdain (possibly because they are not good at using it well). Certainly this past administration went out of their to destroy whatever soft power we had….
Lacuna Synechdoche
This is rich, from WaPo:
geg6
I would be interested in this. I saw the Scorpions with a boyfriend back in the early 80s. He was big on the more mainstream metal bands. And I liked the song back when it came out. Sounds like a fun story.
Bluegirlfromwyo
I’m in. I need a distraction from all my rage over current events.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I’d be down for it. It’s interesting in retrospect that during the late 60s, 70s, and even into the 80s a lot of people thought the USSR was stronger than it really was in reality. So much so, that in the 70s many believed that the aggressive posture that the US/NATO had assumed towards the USSR/WP was not sustainable; that the USSR and the US had to accept one another and either work together more closely on world governance as the two superpowers, or at the very least agree to not dick around in each other’s spheres of influence anymore. Essentially, either choice would have meant the “permanent” division between East and West. Other factors, such as American urban decay as well as the energy crises in this same time period, also represented to some an irrevocable decline in American power. This was most prominently used in Jerry Pournelle’s CoDominium series
Of course, none of this came to pass. The Soviet Union was sicker than was commonly known and of course dissolved in 199
I’d also be interested in discussing George Orwell’s 1984. It’s always still relevant. Truth be told, I think it’s three superstates could serve as stand-ins for potential 3 powerblocs that will exist in the coming decades. China will certainly be the leader of one of them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I listened to this when it was released (and I enjoyed it a lot), but as much as I can remember, I’d be interested in seeing what people think. I never listened to those bonus episodes, maybe I could do that as a way to refresh my memory .
Benw
I heard this before and will NOT have The Scorps demeaned so!
:)
Since it’s open: Ga Tech vs FSU. Go Jackets!!
Gin & Tonic
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Please read something about the Mutual Assured Destruction doctrine. Richard Rhodes is a good starting point.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Gin & Tonic:
I know what MAD is. It was during the era of détente; some people, such as Jerry Pournelle, thought the USSR (and by extension, the East/West division) would last a lot longer than it did. Perhaps centuries. The US’ perceived decline during this period also played into this view; some people thought MAD wasn’t tenabl
From the Wiki article, Predictions of the Collapse of the USSR:
Omnes Omnibus
I am not a pod person.
laura
It’s very engaging – though Patrick Raddon Keefe is a better writer than podcaster. Roadie Brother the Younger was on a couple of the tours and his stories and anecdotes about Klaus Meine, Doc McGee and the shenanigans of the late 80’s and early 90’s made this podcast a must listen for me. It is definitely worth mulling over IMHO. Count me in.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
Me either.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: No zooming, no pods, guessing you are a words person. You could always google and learn about it, instead of listening to it.
Oh wait, what am I thinking? Since when does one have to have read/seen/watched/learned about something in order to have an opinion!
Hope to see you at the Medium Cool, anyway. Lots of interesting historical stuff that I never knew.
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Go look up who Cohen is.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: You might be interested in being part of the discussion anyway. Lots of history!
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Lots of stories of concerts and musicians and bands.
beth
i had no idea how fascinating this podcast was going to be. i accidentally caught it early enough i had to impatiently wait for each episode to drop. i’d love to follow along with a discussion about it.
WaterGirl
@Lacuna Synechdoche: I love that his Florida neighbors want nothing to do with Trump. I think he is in for a rude awakening in just about a month.
We will soon know whether Gin & Tonic is right, that Trump will be carried out of the white house. Or maybe it’s Martin who thought that?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Gin & Tonic:
And by the way, I’m not presenting that view as my own
WaterGirl
@beth: They actually had all 8 episodes released on Spotify right away. It was on Stitcher and the others that we had to wait week by week. I waited, too.
NotMax
Sounds like a very niche-y, limited and narrow topic. Plus what Omnes Omnibus and zhena gogolia said. And am not more than a fair weather fan of the more modern rock music, also too.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Neither am I.
…
Waitaminute…
In all seriousness, I’m much better reading than writing. If I feel there’s too much droning on my brain will clamour for something either written to match it or just tune it out. I can try but no guarantees I’ll pick everything up.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Cohen, who?
WaterGirl
@NotMax: There’s politics, spy craft, history, stories of musicians, rock-and-roll, how black musicians were sent overseas as goodwill ambassadors, one who refused because they were being used for goodwill while dogs and hoses were being used on black people at home. Not niche-like or limited at all, in my opinion.
But of course you are obviously welcome to skip, or participate as you wish.
WaterGirl
@beth: I am going to be really interested to hear what conclusions various people draw – what they think really happened.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Sorry, I didn’t word that comment you responded to very well. I know that MAD stands for “Mutually Assured Destruction”. Which means, basically, that if nuclear weapons are ever used, both sides will be utterly destroyed, which acts as a deterrent to using them in the first place. However, there were several times during the Cold War where technical and human errors almost caused a nuclear holocaust. And if a conventional WW3 had ever broken out, the pressure to use nuclear weapons would have been great. Though, I’m hard pressed to offer any alternative. Nuclear weapons were sort of inevitable and the circumstances under which they were created (WW2) and the geopolitics of the early Cold War forced the arms race to happen
karensky
Sounds great to me. Hair metal and spies – count me in.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
All I had to go on was in your description so that’s why mentioned rock music. Podcasts which have sampled in the past have left me (a) blasé and (b) enervated. Format just doesn’t work for me. YMMV.
Same with audiobooks. Find the mind wandering by about page 2.
mousebumples
I listened to it this summer, and it was interesting. Might also be interesting to tie into Argo (the 2012 movie) since there are similar themes. I don’t want to spoil the podcast at all for those that haven’t listened, but both were about potential CIA operations that had been under wraps/classified (and perhaps still are … )
Not sure if I’ll be around to partake in the thread live (I think you usually have been running them Sunday nights?), but if I can, I’ll try to stop by.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Do/did you ever listen to radio programs? Podcasts are a lot like those, imo. I usually like to listen to them while I’m driving
Gin & Tonic
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Hahahahaha! ROFL.
I don’t wish to be rude, but please, do some homework.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Wasn’t me. I’ve said repeatedly that Donald Trump will never see the inside of a prison cell, but that’s it.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Gin & Tonic:
Oh, shit:
So THAT Cohen. Well, sorry. I feel a little stupid
EveryDayIHaveTheBlues
WaterGirl, my calendar arrived today. The photos are marvelously arranged, and their quality is excellent! I’m so stoked to give this to my wife as one of her gifts. She misses our dear departed kids so much, especially Mutton… thank you, sincerely for taking the time to arrange this.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Big fan of OTR. Writing for radio during its Golden Age was a tailored skill (and tempo) which many who tried never mastered as it’s purposely exaggeratedly evocative as opposed to informative.
Those who did excel in that area (Arch Oboler, Paul Rhymer, etc.) shone like beacons in the night.
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl:
I’m not complaining about your choice of topic. Some of them will grab me, some won’t, and that’s fine. This looks like too much homework!
geg6
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I can only say that not everyone agreed with this. I was, at the time, a poli sci major with a concentration on US/Soviet relations. At the time, Pitt had one of the top Eastern European studies departments in the nation. Dr. Dunnorumo, who was the star of the department, was a great lecturer and scholar in the field and I had several classes with him. He was not fooled about the weaknesses in Soviet control over their satellite states. I never heard him predict a date for the crumbling of the Soviet Union, but he was sure it was starting to happen back when I was an undergrad in the early to mid-80s. This is why I chose to put grad school on hold. I was sure need for my expertise would be extinct and I needed to figure out another direction.
Poe Larity
The notional security state had no interest in the truth about the Soviet state. I didn’t know that Cohen had died in Sept.
In other news, Tom Cruise is unhappy with your Covid compliance: https://twitter.com/UpToTASK/status/1339003304802566144
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The person quoted in your wiki article.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I had to reword this part of my comment several times to try not to snap at you. I majored in Government with a strong concentration in international politics in the early to mid ’80s. I then became an army officer assigned to nuclear capable field artillery units in the latter part of the ’80s and early ’90s. I am well aware of MAD.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
As for listening while driving I’ll sometimes have music on as a background soundtrack (which doesn’t have to be paid attention to other than functioning as a silence breaker) but shy away from anything else which might divert a percentage of my attention from the road.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Mike Pompeo feels a new chill wind, and it feels like irrelevance
I think the people who say he’s gonna run for statewide office back in KS are underestimating his ego
Gin & Tonic
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Happens to everyone. Don’t sweat it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: I told him.
Martin
That’s the cost of an arms race and asymmetrical information. You are required to assume your enemy is stronger and more aggressive than they are. If they launch 100 missiles as a first strike, you need 200 missiles to counter that threat – 100 to stop that first strike and another 100 to cripple them from doing it again. They see your 200, assume a first strike out of you, and now they need 300, or less conservatively 400, and so on. And that’s if you are certain they only have 100. If you don’t know, because we have to drop film canisters from space and catch them on the way down with planes, then you assume they have more than you can see.
The taxpayers want to know what we need all those missiles for so you invite them into escalatory thinking. Next thing you know, they’re the ones demanding more missiles. Things get out of hand really fast.
Wrote a mathematical paper on the phenomena. Was a fun one.
WaterGirl
@mousebumples: yep, Sunday nights at 6pm. They often go until 10 or later.
WaterGirl
@mousebumples: I imagine the conversation might turn to Argo at some point.
Gin & Tonic
I mentioned downstairs that the hospital my dear wife works at has gotten some doses of the Pfizer vaccine. Since the pharmacy is closed for the night (it’s a small hospital) and the vaccine is in the freezer, they have an armed guard outside the door.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mousebumples: I was thinking I might finally get around to watching Argo.
2012? my god, you turn around and the better part of a decade has flown by
Jim Appleton
@Omnes Omnibus:
Bravo
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
I meant no offense. I was just trying to show I knew what it meant
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
20 lb doggy bags for all!
:)
WaterGirl
@EveryDayIHaveTheBlues: That’s great! Thank you. We both worked hard on the calendar – Beth gets full credit for the arranging, though!
Scout211
Just curious. I thought the Medium Cool posts were more free flowing open discussion of thoughts, ideas, memories, favorites, likes and dislikes centered around a general theme.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t go in a different direction but this sounds like a very different direction.
I’m another person who does not enjoy podcasts or even audiobooks.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s some swagger!
Mary G
Also not a podcast person, partly because there are so many of them the choice is overwhelming. The few I’ve listened to involved a lot of in jokes and chitter chatter that made me feel like my time was being wasted, or talking over each other or too fast for my lousy hearing to keep up with.
I love audiobooks, and Audible has added a zillion podcasts free to members. I listened to one called “The Sea in the Sky” which is science fiction, and while I loved the writing and the performers were excellent, in the end it just felt like a radio play from olden times, and a reminder why those went out of fashion. I hope Netflix signs the writer Jackson Musker up to make a movie or series; I’d be first in line.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Yeah. Was told this clubhouse didn’t have dues.
:)
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I knew that. Not everything appeals to everyone.
HumboldtBlue
You had me at guten tag.
Poe Larity
Without Afghanistan (CIA, DIA, ISI, Charlie Wilson, etc), Cash Strangling (gold, arms sales, Iraq/Iran war oil prices), Chernobyl and Mathias Rust, the SU would have been more durable. We lucked out with Gorbachev and Nancy worrying about Ronnie’s legacy (bringing adult mgmt to the WH).
satby
@WaterGirl: BG isn’t doing these any more?
Wag
I’m down.
Matt McIrvin
@Martin: I remember spending too much time in the 90s poking around a Buck-A-Book in Boston, which served as a sort of dustbin of history. Stacks of things like guides to using WordStar on the Kaypro, along with obsolete political books and autobiographies of obscure tycoons.
Once I found a book that was some conservative’s stern extended warning from the 80s about how the Soviet Union was on the verge of crushing us. The phrase he kept repeating over and over was that the USSR, unlike the US, had “high morale and a balanced budget”.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Medium Cool isn’t going in a different direction.
The Wind of Change thread could easily have been a regular post.
There’s a ton of culture running all through this podcast, and with BG taking a month off to finish his book, I thought this might be something nice for that slot.
But maybe you’re right that I could do it not in the Medium Cool slot.
It seems like there is interest in talking about the story – because this particular podcast really is the unfolding of a story and is unlike any other podcast I have listened to.
WaterGirl
@satby: Not to worry! BG is still doing Medium Cool, but he is taking a month off so he can focus on finishing up his latest book.
Grades are in for the semester, and he won’t be teaching for the next few weeks, so it’s a good time for a break from everything while he finishes up his book.
I’m just holding down the fort.
NotMax
@Mary G
The BBC continues to do radio plays, often very, very good adaptations of books (Hitchhiker’s Guide and Foundation come to mind) or other media (Star Wars). And yes, there’s an app for that.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
@Omnes Omnibus:
To give more context, I misunderstood when you said “look up Cohen”. I thought you were telling me to look someone up by the name of Cohen that wrote a book or something on “MAD”.
Punchy
@HumboldtBlue: the idea of a bunch of spooks slinging rhymes for The Scorps is 2 parts funny, 1 part genius.
Gin & Tonic
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): No, that was Kahn, not Cohen.
WaterGirl
@Punchy: It really is. There are so many things that came out in this podcast, though – where the CIA and the government really did use music and musical groups to further their political goals – that it doesn’t seem crazy to think that they may have done that here.
Listen for yourself and then tell us what you think.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
This is sort of a sad commentary on human nature, too. And of power.
laura
@Mary G: Check out Smartless. Great unplanned for interviews of engaging people.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Well played.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Understandable. I preferred listening to podcasts on morning commutes on the freeway to classes, which usually weren’t that busy in the morning (rural route)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Omnes Omnibus:
It really was a misunderstanding. I apologize
Omnes Omnibus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): There is no need to apologize.
Gretchen
@laura: I think Keene has written a book on it which will be coming out soon.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
CIA is responsible for Adam Sandler’s movies. They play them in continuous loop to torture prisoners.
Pittsburgh Mike
@WaterGirl: I use an app that retrieves the RSS feed from Apple’s servers, and all the episodes and bonus episodes are present there.
The series is a lot of fun, as well as somewhat educational, especially if you don’t know any spooks.
Pittsburgh Mike
This is a great idea. I listened to all the episodes already, but it would be fun to discuss theories about what parts are true and which are false.
Skookum in Oly
I listened to the first episode last night, and will be listening to them all. Fascinating stuff. True story? Who knows, but it’s certainly in that fun valley of what was and what might have been. Lacking the knowledge to know one way or the other, I find myself hooked.
Count me in.
WaterGirl
@Skookum in Oly: It only gets better from there!
mad citizen
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: OK, this is funny (says someone who never watched Happy Gilmore, etc.).
Ithink
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I’d be so down for any discussion regarding Orwell’s ‘1984’ as well! Excellent idea.