.
FINALLY https://t.co/uxSC78axxp
— kilgore trout, tiny desk carpenter (@KT_So_It_Goes) December 12, 2020
It's Groundhog Day. Again. https://t.co/O927AYugYg
— Patrick Chovanec (@prchovanec) December 12, 2020
In recent days, Trump's team has complained that judges have refused to consider the merits of their claims. The Wisconsin Federal Judge, appointed by Trump did just that.
Here is what he wrote: pic.twitter.com/3dQPeS3NJQ
— Marc E. Elias (@marceelias) December 12, 2020
This also has been the case in Georgia, where the focus has been on Fulton County; Michigan, where Wayne County was targeted; and Pennsylvania, where Philadelphia County was in the crosshairs.
Two Wisconsin judges finally call it out.
— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) December 12, 2020
this is take your fucking circus off my lawn level stuff https://t.co/Gl52zwCfJT
— kilgore trout, tiny desk carpenter (@KT_So_It_Goes) December 12, 2020
SAD! Even the Fox interviewer can’t muster any enthusiam for this charade. They just wanna move on…
"They're winning these things on little technicalities, like a thing called standing." pic.twitter.com/fPdLMHX3bg
— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) December 13, 2020
Ruckus
Always like to see shitheads like trump lose massively, publicly and by judges he appointed.
Now if we could only be rid of him completely now that he has lost over and over and over and over……..
Little technicalities, like the judges actually being correct, on the law.
Jim Appleton
A guy who understands standing as a minor technicality is the most powerful human ever.
JPL
Will you show up to the inauguration … I don’t want to talk about that. hahahahahahhahahahahahahah Biden would prefer not..
West of the Rockies
Poor Donny… death by a thousand cuts. Wish it was a thousand corncobs (if you know what I mean, and I think that you do).
Mary G
Re-posting from the last thread, because it’s so disgusting:
They’ve all had it already!
germy
More drop boxes makes it harder for republicans to win?
Jeffro
@Jim Appleton:
My biggest complaint was, is, and will always be that the guy is a complete fucking moron.
Aleta
Ellen Nakashima broke this story at the Post:
WaterGirl
@Aleta: What is fire-eye?
Aleta
@Aleta: OOps, @TS (the original) already put this story and an excerpt in the previous thread.
Cameron
@Ruckus: He prefers bigly technicalities, the best technicalities….
Jay
Spanky
@WaterGirl: A cybersecurity company. Been around a while. Iirc, their main product is also called FireEye.
Major Major Major Major
@Jay: Has anybody done an explanatory post here about Section 230 yet?
germy
SFAW
@WaterGirl:
Not enough of a cybergeek, so grain of salt and all that: I think the important part was that FireEye developed software used to find and exploit weaknesses in firewalls, etc., so that those holes/weaknesses can be closed.
RSA
If not for standing, Trump might have been brought down by now with emolument suits from Congress and from CREW.
jonas
As I understand it, issues of standing are addressed in a first year law school course called “Tiny Technicalities.”
germy
@Mary G:
SFAW
@jonas:
Does it use a tiny textbook which can only be held by tiny hands?
germy
Martin
@WaterGirl: FireEye is a cybersecurity company here in CA. They offer software and services and consultancy.
They were breached by a nation-state last week.
Anotherlurker
DECEMBER 13, 2020 AT 5:21 PM
Legit question here: How big are the actual numbers of these shit eating Proud Boys and their equally malodorous other Nazi supporters?
If the shit keeps rising and ends up in a shooting contest, what actual effect could it have?
Do the cops go all in on supporting these assholes? Do they support them when a cop is killed?
I guess this is a question for Adam Silverman.
For the record: I would expect some very ugly outcomes, but I don’t think there are enough fanatics to really overthrow the Government. I think the loudmouths and the cosplayers will fade into the woodwork and leave the fanatics hanging out to dry.
Yup. I’m a starry eyed optimist.
Reply
dmsilev
@Mary G: Not surprised. Disgusted, yes, but not surprised.
WaterGirl
@Aleta: Not to worry, you had new information. Plus, it’s a different thread.
RSA
@Mary G:
Not mentioned in the article are Secret Service agents, who I think should plausibly be among the first recipients. Probably the first time in U.S. history that the Secret Service has needed to be protected from the President.
germy
dmsilev
mrmoshpotato
@JPL:
“Glad to see all of the previous real Presidents are here.”
Citizen_X
@germy: Let them have the Russian vaccine.
Martin
@Anotherlurker: They’re not that big, and to be honest, they’re fucking cowards. They’re terrified of cities and will only go when their numbers are large enough and they have enough firepower to overwhelm the mythical creatures they believe reside within.
That’s not to say they aren’t a threat, but they aren’t an existential threat. The threat against Whitmer didn’t have enough competence to succeed, or the numbers to do the backup plan (summary executions at the capitol). They’re not really the problem, as with Trump, the problem are the enablers and those who look away. Because they’re not ever going to stand up to these people – we need to do it.
germy
@Citizen_X:
Good idea.
zhena gogolia
I’m not going to get excited about the Trumpers getting the vaccine. I just want them to go away.
Baud
@Martin:
Agree. There’s a risk of domestic terrorism, but we’ve had that before with people like McVeigh.
Martin
@RSA: Reminder to all that there is no evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus. Lots of vaccines work this way – they protect you, but nobody else – you can still be a carrier and you can still spread it to others.
In time we’ll know the answer to that question, but it means that even if you get the shot, you still need to wear a mask, social distance, and all that. The only thing we know is that the vaccine will take the pressure off of the ERs.
I think it’s safe to say nobody at the WH will understand that, nor will most of the public.
Aleta
@WaterGirl: To the extent I know, they contract to do cybersecurity for big organizations that would be in serious trouble if breached, like financial services, big insurance companies, healthcare orgs, perhaps some of our government departments. Their website is fireeye dot com.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I hope Biden, Harris, and the people around them get the vaccine early.
germy
Ed O’Keefe is a smirking little republican operative, so of course CBS has him covering all things Biden.
mrmoshpotato
Doesn’t this Soviet shitpile mobster manbaby know he wouldn’t have lost (loser!) on little technicalities if he didn’t have little baby hands?
Tiny-handed loser assclown. SAD!
zhena gogolia
@Martin:
My expectation is that I might be able to get it by spring or summer. I expect to be teaching in person in September, but probably still with masks and distancing. Not Zoom, but not giving up masks and distancing. I hope I’m over-pessimistic.
mad citizen
@Jeffro: Yup!
Re: The Moron issue, I’ve sometimes wondered what I would do if by some chance a moron of such proportion emerged on our side as party leader. I’ve got think I would not vote for said person; and likely vote for the other party to win. This is the issue that continues to boggle my mind: tens of millions of americans went for it; many millions of (likely) smart republicans held their nose and went for it. The latter could surely see the authoritarian risk involved.
I will never understand this event. As author Fran Lebowitz said (praphrasing) “T getting elected is the most unlikely thing to happen in my lifetime”; and “You don’t know anyone dumber than T; you just don’t”.
Baud
@mad citizen:
Probably you wouldn’t. Being stupid doesn’t make one evil, and our moron would likely not be evil.
mrmoshpotato
@Citizen_X: Let them inject bleach for this “hoax.” Assholes.
TS (the original)
@Aleta: Worth repeating.
Lots of comments on wapo suggesting it is all according to trump’s plan. e.g.
What a coincidence; right after Trump fired heads of cyber divisions at DHS
Aleta
@WaterGirl: Excerpts from NYT on Dec. 8 2020:
For years, the cybersecurity firm FireEye has been the first call for government agencies and companies around the world who have been hacked by the most sophisticated attackers, or fear they might be. Now it looks like the hackers — in this case, evidence points to Russia’s intelligence agencies — may be exacting their revenge.
FireEye revealed on Tuesday that its own systems were pierced by what it called “a nation with top-tier offensive capabilities.” The company said hackers used “novel techniques” to make off with its own tool kit, which could be useful in mounting new attacks around the world.
It was a stunning theft, akin to bank robbers who, having cleaned out local vaults, then turned around and stole the F.B.I.’s investigative tools. …
The $3.5 billion company, which partly makes a living by identifying the culprits in some of the world’s boldest breaches — its clients have included Sony and Equifax — declined to say explicitly who was responsible. But its description, and the fact that the F.B.I. has turned the case over to its Russia specialists, left little doubt who the lead suspects were and that they were after what the company calls “Red Team tools.”
These are essentially digital tools that replicate the most sophisticated hacking tools in the world. FireEye uses the tools — with the permission of a client company or government agency — to look for vulnerabilities in their systems. Most of the tools are based in a digital vault that FireEye closely guards.
The hack raises the possibility that Russian intelligence agencies saw an advantage in mounting the attack while American attention — including FireEye’s — was focused on securing the presidential election system. …
The hack was the biggest known theft of cybersecurity tools since those of the National Security Agency were purloined in 2016 by a still-unidentified group that calls itself the ShadowBrokers. That group dumped the N.S.A.’s hacking tools online over several months …. North Korea and Russia ultimately used the N.S.A.’s stolen weaponry in destructive attacks on government agencies, hospitals and the world’s biggest conglomerates — at a cost of more than $10 billion.
The N.S.A.’s tools were most likely more useful than FireEye’s since the U.S. government builds purpose-made digital weapons. FireEye’s Red Team tools are essentially built from malware that the company has seen used in a wide range of attacks.
germy
Citizen_X
@dmsilev: Shit. I guess I’ll move a couple of his books up on my reading list. Spy Who Came In From the Cold? I’ve never read that one.
featheredsprite
@mad citizen: Democrats have a very energetic primary system that serves to eliminate the less qualified. Usually. Hopefully.
Martin
@zhena gogolia: There will be a push to immunize all students and teachers and school staff by end of summer.
Dan B
@mad citizen: Trump has great, not perfect, intelligence in self promotion and self preservation. He’s lashing out because he can’t figure out how to preserve his damaged ego without suffering some damage. I wonder how many times he’s thought about that nuclear football.
Then I ponder how the Secret Service would take him down and how the Generals would refuse to forward the order.
Or would Putin stop him? There could be a Russian plant very close. But then I feel like I’m channeling a John LeCarre novel.
patrick II
@mad citizen:
Donald Trump actually asked himself the same question — and then switched from Democrat to Republican.
Baud
@featheredsprite:
Sigh. T’is true.
Uncle Omar
“We lost on a legal technicality.” “What was it?” “A lack of evidence.” Dialogue from Magnum Force, the second Dirty Harry movie, scripted by John Milius. Trump obviously saw this movie as a youth and only remembered that a “lack of evidence” is a minor “legal technicality.”
Anotherlurker
@Martin: Thanks! I’m glad I looking at this thru the right lens.
We need to keep we Democrats engaged and voting in every election.
I would love to see an ongoing media campaign that reminds people that the 300,000 deaths from COVID , the selling out of our Country to the Russians , the hate speech and incitement to violence are all the products of the GOP. Keep painting them with the brush of trump.
I suggest simple, short commercials on FOX, The Super Bowl and other sporting events, popular entertainment shows and other vehicles that attract various voters. Keep these spots strategically running during off-year elections and intensify the volume of media buys as the elections grow nearer.
I’m not looking to win any GOP voters, I’m looking to keep Dems engaged and pissed off.
Now, gift me with Soros/Bloomburgh cash and I’ll get right on it!
Baud
@Anotherlurker:
Pricey tv ads really aren’t a good way to keep Dems engaged IMHO.
patrick II
@Citizen_X:
Not to discourage reading, but two of his books were made into 6 part television series by BBC (Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy and Smiley’s People) and are free on YouTube.
Geminid
@mad citizen: As M.D.Russ said in his article in Bearing Drift: Trump did not hijack the Republican party, “he just answered the casting call.” Still, his win in the general election was razor thin, made possible by voter suppression and very possibly electoral fraud. Even so, a friend suggested that he would have lost had the election been held four days earlier, or four days later. Retired Army Colonel M.D. Russ’s article is titled “Trump is the Real Republican President.” It’s worth reading. Bearing Drift is a Virginia based journal put out by self-described conservatives who despise trump.
Citizen Alan
@mad citizen: The analogy I always gave to Republicans I had to deal with was this: If the GOP had nominated Kasich or Jeb or even Lil’ Marco Rubio, and the Democrats went insane and nominated Rosie O’Donnell, and Rosie O’Donnell spent the entire general campaign making vulgar jokes about how big the Republican nominee’s penis was while promising to abolish private gun ownership and nationalize the whole healthcare industry by executive order, I would have voted Republican. I would have grumbled and gnashed my teeth, but I would have voted for the Republican over a vacuous celebrity who showed signs of authoritarianism. Because I love my country more than my party, which is something no Trump supporter could ever say.
prostratedragon
To David Cornwall/John Le Carre. Loved all the Smiley books, A Tailor from Panama and A Perfect Spy. Special mention to the last, and The Spy Who Came In from the Cold and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, which might be even more suspenseful as a novel than it is as movie/tv. The man knew how to write a rollercoaster.
Citizen_X
@patrick II: Ah. I want to read at least one of those, because I’ve never read one of the George Smiley books. I loved the Gary Oldman movie of Tinker, Tailor…, but I did hear some people prefer the BBC series. Didn’t know it was available online; thanks.
debbie
@Spanky:
They’ve been talking about FireEye being hacked for a few days. Is the Treasury, etc. hack the same or a separate incident?
zhena gogolia
@Citizen Alan:
I have to giggle when thinking of Rosie O’Donnell as an authoritarian.
Anotherlurker
@Baud: But there is strategic placement. Also, an ad doesn’t have to expensive to be effective. Just seeing them will help keep the issues focused on those who caused this assault on the USA.
I also advocate for boots-on-the-ground efforts. Knocking on doors, sending postcards etc.
We need to keep our voters engaged.
debbie
@germy:
Let them demonstrate for the rest of us whether there are side effects or not.
CaseyL
@dmsilev: Damn sorry to hear that. A new LeCarre was once upon a time a got-to-go-to-bookstore-NOW occasion for me.
patrick II
@Citizen_X:
The series stars Sir Alec Guiness. Each one is about nine hours in six episodes and at that length, script written by LeCarre, and follows the books in part word for word. Incredibly smart dialogue.
gwangung
@Anotherlurker: It’s not the expense….it’s simply that media, as a top down method, isn’t nearly as effective a motivator as other people and the general social group you’re in.
Jackie
@debbie: My positive spin? Being vaccinated negates their Get Out of Prison card.
cmorenc
@mad citizen:
The democrats don’t have any morons, but we do have a few leading figures (and one especially in particular) who are so long-suited in strident ideology and so short-suited in “playing well with others” that they are seriously deficient in practical wisdom, and often full of their own B.S. Let’s just say that Jim Clyburn helped us dodge nominating someone like that, who Trump would have likely had better odds of beating.
WaterGirl
@Aleta: Thank you. And oh my god.
Barbara
John Le Carre was someone I rather childishly hoped would live forever, but I think he was 90 or close to it, so of course, his death is not surprising. Still sad.
Regarding the Wisconsin litigation, I am glad the judges went there — suing two counties over the use of a statewide form should be embarrassing to a competent ethical attorney. Basically, the lawyers were asking the court to engage in a violation of equal protection by invalidating the votes of individuals, even discounting racial animus, based solely on who they likely voted for. “I know the state used the same form statewide, but you should only invalidate votes in Dane and Milwaukee County because that’s where we lost.” How do you even ask a court to do that while looking the judges in the eye?
The repetitive nature of these suits, the wild accusations of conspiracy and deep state paranoia is the kind of stuff judges are actually used to seeing — in the form of pro se petitions, typically from prisoners with a lot of time on their hands and zero legal training. They are not the kind of thing usually filed by a lawyer.
dmsilev
@patrick II: I’ll chime in to further recommend the BBC miniseries. They’re longer, of course, but you really need the extra space to do full justice to the novels.
Patricia Kayden
Phylllis
@patrick II: The 2011 version of Tinker Tailor is very good as well. Available on
Prime* Netflix.*Available for rent on Prime.
Ken
But it’s a curious kind of suspense. Most of the novel is George Smiley reading files and interviewing former members of the Circus. Yet La Carre made it riveting.
Ken
Now I’m really hoping that New York gets Trump on bank fraud, or tax evasion, or some other “little technicality.”
mrmoshpotato
@Barbara:
I guess it’s easy when you’re a total jackass.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken: Haha, I hope New York caves in some faces.
JoyceH
@Martin:
Not to mention the fact that these guys are such loudmouths that if more than three of them get together, you can count on at least one of them being an undercover agent or an FBI informant.
dmsilev
@Ken: Ten million counts of mail fraud.
debbie
@Barbara:
I saw on Twitter that Sidney Powell’s latest filing is in all caps.?
Patricia Kayden
Baud
@debbie:
Is she before Judge John Cole?
Jeffro
For five years now, I have tried to picture what it would take for the Ds to have someone as corrupt as trumpov, as utterly stupid as trumpov, and as obviously mentally unstable as trumpov as a leading candidate for prez, or even party bigwig.
You really can’t do it – not in a single one of those dimensions, much less all three at once.
I mean it’s like the worst party game in the world, but try it. Who on our side is as dumb as he is? (Who’s even close?) Who’s that far off their rocker? Who’s that corrupt?
Can’t get there. It’s just amazing.
Hindsight is 20/20 (ouch!) but perhaps we could have shorted out at least a few wingnuts’ circuits by telling them, right from the start: DEMAND BETTER QUALITY REPRESENTATION.
(ok we did, but still…you get the idea…)
Bill Arnold
@Aleta:
I see nothing in that Dec 13 WaPo piece indicating why they are attributing the attack(s) to APT29/Cozy Bear. Until there are technical details published, I will presume that this is just speculative attribution. (If operational security is disciplined and competent, attribution is hard and looking like somebody else is possible, even often desirable.)
planetjanet
@Jeffro:
Tulsi Gabbard, Marianne Williamson.
Bill Arnold
@Martin:
Not what they said:
“highly sophisticated threat actor, one whose discipline, operational security, and techniques lead us to believe it was a state-sponsored attack”
They are presuming that the only such actors are state or state-sponsored.
debbie
@Baud:
If only!
Jeffro
PS Twitler is busy freaking out once again…bouncing back and forth between taking credit for the vaccines (FIVE YEARS AHEAD OF SCHEDULE!) and of course making all kinds of threats against states – ‘swing states’ specifically – that certify their electors tomorrow.
He’s also saying that Republican poll watchers were “roughed up”. Hey Dems, you might want to get loud that the loser-in-chief is (once again) inciting violence. Hey Media, you might want to note the same, and shut the F up about the progressive bonafides (or lack thereof) of Biden’s cabinet nominees. Hey GOP – all of this shit is on. your. heads.
Bill Arnold
@Patricia Kayden:
There is a technical argument for vaccinating people mostly likely to be superspreaders first. The White House staff might qualify due to their willful lack of mask discipline.
Main problem I see with this argument is that early vaccination of the psychopath (particularly those with power over others) further hardens hard hearts/suppresses any remaining empathy.
E.g. employers would feel comfortable forcing their employees to come to the office/indoor workplace (under penalty of firing for non-compliance) if they personally were immune. Or not wear masks, or undoing whatever pandemic control practices they feel inhibit money making.
mrmoshpotato
Warning: Dump’s disgusting face inside.
He should be physically thrown out of the White House on January 20th for shit like this.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
I thought winning meant not having to care about the tweets anymore. Why are we still caring about the tweets?
mrmoshpotato
@Bill Arnold:
Or – and hear me out – we exile them to South “Plague Colony” Dakota. :)
Bill Arnold
@JoyceH:
Nope. They, as is often/usually the case, got lucky. A loner (or very small cell) armed with a scoped sniper (or hunting) rifle (or rifles) is very hard to stop. The Beltway Sniper Attacks is an example; a 2-person(males) team, with a medium-range rifle. Right-wingers should note that the beltway sniper team was very not right wing. (Such skills and weapons are distributed throughout society and ideologies.) We do not, as a country, want to go there.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Well, the nutjob is still in office for another month and change…
mrmoshpotato
@dmsilev: Ten million?
Geminid
@mad citizen: If all trump is was a moron, he would never have been elected President. But trump is also an effective demagogue, and his demagoguery was skillfully amplified through social and other media. It’s a damn good thing trump’s the moron he is, because if he’d been less of one he would have won a second term. And then we would have been in big trouble.
Jeffro
@planetjanet: Not even in the same league as trumpov for corruption (Gabbard) or stupidity (Williamson). I mean, I get it, that’s about the worst we have/had to offer…and they’re still nowhere close.
Baud
@mrmoshpotato:
Sure. We should watch what he does. What he says in meaningless. Even Hillary is a free woman.
mrmoshpotato
@Geminid: I can’t (and don’t want to) imagine 4 more years of this mobster shitpile crime family having power – deadly virus or not.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Well said.
Timill
@Bill Arnold: Indeed. What about SPECTRE or THRUSH, for example?
Jay
LuciaMia
Oh, those pesky little technicalities, like evidence, rule of law, proper procedure and ….well….reality.
Keith P.
@mrmoshpotato: I really hope his endgame is to fire Barr and put Whitaker back in to charge swing states with the crime of certifying their elections. Once that explodes in his face, it should deter him from thinking about declaring “limited” martial law and ordering the military to “audit” the vote (which means the command-in-chief orders them to throw away Biden ballots en masse)
Anotherlurker
@gwangung: Perhaps there is a way to balance media and voter outreach. Perhaps 70/30 outreach/media? Voters need to be reminded of The Who the perpetrators of the fascist agenda are and the damage they have done.
dmsilev
@Keith P.: Since every state, swing or not, has already certified their votes and since the electors vote tomorrow, this seems more like a temper tantrum or empty threat rather than something serious.
Amir Khalid
@dmsilev:
I expect to see Trump denouncing the Electoral College for being illegally loaded with “Democrat” electors. Maybe he’ll even threaten a lawsuit.
Hoodie
@Keith P.: He won’t be deterred from doing anything except stuff that will land him in prison. Once all the other stupid gambits have failed, I fully expect him to tweet some declaration of limited martial law, in the vein of those “I hereby claim the states of Michigan, etc” tweets he sent in November. Of course, such a martial law tweet will be ignored by everyone in the government, either because he won’t actually order them to do anything, or because if he does issue an order, it will be illegal. However, there will no real legal consequences for him. Some of his cosplay patriots may try something stupid, which may get someone killed (most likely one of them). Maybe you could get him for incitement for that one, but not likely given past history of his other irresponsible tweets.
mrmoshpotato
@Keith P.: And come January 20 – I hope he and his entire shitpile family are prevented from fleeing the country, bitchslapped and thrown in the slammer – literally.
dmsilev
@Amir Khalid: Set your alarm for 5 PM Eastern US time, since that’s when California has their electors votes and hence when Biden will pass 270.
Miss Bianca
@RSA: I mean, is that a fucking joke? “They’re winning these things on little technicalities, like standing?”
I mean, if I didn’t know it was absolutely impossible, I’d swear Trump was trying to make a funny.
Miss Bianca
@Jeffro:
I’d like to think that that *would* work on some of them. I mean…I *like* to think it. It gives me pleasure.
Do I think it would *actually* get through to them? Maybe, if you delivered it as stand-up comedy. If you had the savage comedic chops of a, say, George Carlin. I dunno otherwise.
rikyrah
@mad citizen:
They chose Whiteness.
There is no equivalent on the Democratic Party side
prostratedragon
@Ken: [Damn late, I know] True, but if you follow along there’s a point where the ending off in the distance suddenly rips into focus and you find yourself needing to be sure that it has to be the way it’s going to be.