I know Rachel isn’t everyone’s cup of tea (that’s okay — more tea for me!), but this is a powerful message about what’s at stake when people decide they’re bored with the pandemic.
As a natural-born homebody and introvert, I suspect I’m having an easier time than most weathering the social distancing and lack of galivanting, and even I’m fed up after eight months, so I get the restlessness. The approaching holidays are making it worse. So I needed to hear Maddow’s message, and maybe you do too. Open thread.
donnah
I’m a huge fan of Rachel Maddow and I watched this live last night. She’s very private, so this was a huge deal for her to make this public statement and I admire her all the more for doing so. She feels very strongly about how Covid has wracked this country since the beginning, so this must be nearly driving her mad.
I sent her my best wishes, as have thousands of other fans, and I hope Susan recovers completely and soon.
Betty Cracker
@donnah: Same! It sounds like Susan is going to be okay, so that’s great news.
Hildebrand
It’s gutting that they have had to go through this ordeal. Then again, its gutting each time I have heard from those who have likewise gone through this – some not with happy endings, at all. Back in April and May I was getting calls at least once a week describing such heartbreak and helplessness (I am a Lutheran pastor in Detroit – we suspended in-person worship in March, our leadership has agreed with me that we will not go back until March or April). I am thankful that most of the folks in Detroit learned early on not to mess around with this.
The most heart-rending part of where we are right now is that the people who need to hear Rachel’s story the most are precisely the people who won’t listen to her.
Raven
So how do you feel about a gathering of 8, outside, masked with proper food protocols? Asking for a friend.
The Moar You Know
I had to be the asshole to put the kibosh on several family member’s plans this holiday, and I will have to do it again for Christmas.
That’s OK. I’ll be a living asshole and everyone else can cuss me out as much as they like. I’ll enjoy it. Truly. I’ll be alive, they will be alive. That’s all I want; me and mine to cross the finish line, alive. They can call me all the names they want so long as that’s where we all end up.
@Raven: That exact scenario was the really hard one (my wife’s family) that I had to put the kibosh on. No way.
Geoduck
@Raven: Don’t do it. Any more questions?
Lyrebird
@Raven: outside is the way to go, if you can! Enjoy GA!
We’ve had weather below 20deg and plan to see people on Zoom.
VeniceRiley
This perfectly encapsulates my feelings of anxiety as my future wife heads into a prison every day for work. They just did change the masks policy maybe 10 days ago? She was exposed to a positive coworker, isolated 2 weeks ending today, and is fine. No idea if she’s pos or neg. No testing done. I just …. UGH!
Oh and I got turned down for the J&J trial because I am emigrating out of the country.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I got my last round of edits for the book coming out at the end of March. I can’t do them for more than an hour at a stretch because I get irritated. She can make all the wording changes she wants at this point. I detached from that book months ago. I don’t want to have to go through the Word doc and accept them one by one, but if I accept all, I’ll for sure be sorry.
Phylllis
Things I thought I’d miss but really haven’t: shopping/browsing for clothes/shoes, etc.; going to the movie theater.
Things I kind of miss but can certainly live without until conditions improve: going out for breakfast on the weekend.
What I really missed & hope doesn’t close down again: the public library.
Hungry Joe
I’d like someone to explain why they HAVE TO go to a bar. Or a restaurant. Or a social, even family gathering. Not “want to real bad,” or “My sister will never forgive me if I don’t,” but HAVE TO.
Dorothy A. Winsor
We’ll be alone here. That’s ok. As Cuomo used to ask, is it worse than dying? No. It’s not.
TriassicSands
@Raven:
i wouldn’t attend it. Period.
Ruckus
@Hildebrand:
You can’t teach people who do not want to learn. People who think they have a clue, who think that the color of skin is inverse to the color of money, and that money is by far the most important part of life. They are actually lifeless beings who do the same things as everyone else, with the exception of actually attempting to be humans. Their goal seems to be money changers/hoarders as the minimum and maximum parts of living. A waste of food, oxygen and space who look at anyone without their views as not worthy of living. Their world is dim, senseless, devoid of possibilities, limited to what has been, never to what can be, they have no vision of a future, only a broken past.
raven
@Geoduck: My problem is that it is not me and she is not going to listen to me.
Ruckus
@Raven:
Given what we know, given the phase of the pandemic, my choice would be no way. It’s just not worth the risk. And I’ve taken plenty of risk in my life. I used to road race motorcycles.
Almost Retired
We’re trying to figure out what to do with our youngest spawn, who is coming home to Los Angeles from college on the Central Coast next week for good (graduating). Do we wear masks at home for 14 days and generally confine him to his room? Or have him go live with his older brother nearby and wait out the vaccine? As far as I can tell, when he gets up in the morning, he’s committed to social distancing and reasonable safety measures, but by mid-afternoon, he’s bored with it all and ready to hang out with friends.
Mary G
Wow, such a great human being we elected:
danielx
@Betty Cracker:
Noted. As a dyed in the wool introvert, staying home is not a big problem for me. Have a Kindle, have family, have cats (okay, they’re family too), access to music of every kind, medications as needed (h/t Snoop Dogg), and no medical conditions requiring appointments. Getting out of house periodically for mental health reasons can be handled with a walk or drive. It’s annoying but not critical not to be able to see or talk to people outside the household, and missing Thanksgiving isn’t a big thing. Even less than usual, since a lot of inlaws have turned into Trumpistas for whom I have little patience.
On the other hand, I can understand the flip side. One of my best friends is a Jersey Italian (originally) and an aggressive extrovert; this level of isolation causes him almost physical pain.
ETA: @Raven: don’t do it. You’ve gotten this far and next year will be better.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Ezra Klein is leaving VOX and going to the NYT Opinion page.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Almost Retired: I have no idea how I’d handle that. What does the spawn say? Have you talked to him about your concerns? Does he have suggestions?
narya
Not going anywhere, not seeing anyone. At all. Not thrilled about going to pick up a turkey tomorrow (which will head straight into the freezer), even–gonna pull out the N95 for that one–and it’s an OUTDOOR market! Gonna sound weird, but I’m planning on cleaning a lot this weekend, doing some cooking, and then doing a binge-watching marathon over the four-day holiday–four-and-a-half-day, if I can get this one thing done at work. Trying not to worry about friends and family–older nephew called the other night and we had to change the subject from Covid early on; he’s young and thinks he’s invulnerable, though he’s not being a complete dolt. I told him to stay away from my parents, though.
MomSense
The dilemma many of us face is that we are forced to choose between income to support ourselves and our families or being safe.
I would gladly stay home, but without any kind of financial assistance, it is impossible.
Ken
Did he have to defeat one of the existing writers in a death match?
WereBear
Mr WereBear has a chronic illness, and he’s subject to year-round cabin fever as a result. Fortunately, we enjoy each other’s company, AND can separate sufficiently when we both need alone time, as we do.
The Orphan’s Thanksgiving and Couple Christmas (one each of the two best holiday buffets in the area) will both be off-limits to us now, which really really sucks… but as Rachel points out, getting sick with COVID sucks far more.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Would like to hear those who have large public microphones and are most passionate about staying home shouting a tandem message about relief for small businesses (restaurants, bars, retailers, service and affiliated vendors) and workers being meaningful and immediate.
“I know it’s hard but we have to do it to save lives” is a meaningless platitude that doesn’t pay rent/mortgages, utilities or current debt service. It doesn’t replace lifetimes of investment in developing skills, creating markets or maintainingdreams. It is a phrase that could represent a rocky shoal that can wreck a Biden presidency and American society itself.
Want those restaurants, skills and experiences there when this hellscape is done? Reach out now.
Geoduck
@raven: OK. There really needs to be a way to say “asking for a friend”, when you really are asking for a friend, and not asking for yourself and being cutesy about it.
Steve in the ATL
@Hildebrand: not Missouri Synod, I assume, or you would be posting at RedState and not here. Since we signed our God-sharing arrangement, do you get many Episcopalians at your services?
@Raven: yeah, like YOU have friends!
@VeniceRiley:
To where? #jealous #wellmaybedepending on where
TriassicSands
Raven:
Wouldn’t it be healthier if everyone stopped trying to find a way to do something that is inherently risky? No holiday. No gathering. Nothing is worth killing another person so unnecessarily.
Recently, reading BJ comments, I was struck by what seemed to be repeated comments that seemed designed to make people feel lonelier. I heard the same thing on the radio, where a guest finished explaining how her family was not going to meet for Thanksgiving this year. Then, the host said something like, “Yes, but it’s going to be really painful, isn’t it?” The horse is already dead, stop beating it.
In October, people were treating a missed Halloween as if that were a real tragedy, when the tragedy would be killing people unnecessarily or having a child suffer long-term disability because of infection.
Recently, a poll reported that 40% of Americans were going to gather for Thanksgiving regardless of the pandemic. That level of stupidity and denial is horrifying. And it is going to kill people. Many people.
narya
@MomSense: I work with folks who must be in-person–my agency is doing >700 Covid tests/day, targeting some ofthe most vulnerable folks in the City–and I am so grateful to them, and to you. The least I can do is stay the hell at home, out of the office so they can distance more, and so I’m not part of the problem. Thank you again.
Benw
I am on Zoom in the weirdest work holiday party ever…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@danielx: I miss travel, and watching a football game in place where somebody else would cook and bring me a cheeseburger, but by and large, I’m good.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: the smaller space will improve his writing. I thought/assumed he and Yglesias were partners/part owners in Vox, interesting that they’re both gone after such a relatively short time.
WereBear
@Ruckus: That’s beautiful, Ruckus.
It sums up my own thinking about such a limited, mean, and grasping outlook on life.
Steve in the ATL
@Ruckus:
And you had dinner with me in Glendale!
Almost Retired
@Dorothy A. Winsor: The returning spawn is leaning towards staying with his older brother, because there will be no meddling parents or other adult supervision. We are having him get tested on campus before he leaves, since it’s easier to get tested there than it is to line up in your car at Dodger Stadium and wave at the news crews. We’ve ruled out sending him to live with his 87 year old Grandmother in Iowa :)
WhatsMyNym
@Raven: The current rule in Washington state is now Outdoor Social Gatherings shall be limited to five (5) people from outside your household.
Yarrow
@Raven: Unless all 8 people already live together in the same household, then it’s a no. Too many people and too risky. People will have to go inside to use the bathroom. Some people may get careless. Not worth the risk.
epu
justawriter
“Not everyone’s cup of tea” sums up a lot of the problems with getting an effective opposition in this country. It’s like every lib demands a prominent speaker address every problem the precise and exact way they would if they had been bothered to actually you know, speak out on an issue. Going back to the late Molly Ivins and Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann, Air America, Maddow, … if libs put in half they time criticizing conservatives that they do their own media figures, Fox News would be smoking rubble by the end of the month. (not all liberals, not all media figures, YMMV)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Almost Retired: If the brother is willing to host him, I’d probably do that.
Eljai
@Phylllis: I miss my trips to the library too. My local library is doing curbside service, but I miss exploring shelves of books and pulling one out to see if it speaks to me.
JoyceH
According to breaking reporting, the Republican legislators from Michigan are going to the White House to tell Trump they would follow the law and award the electoral vote to the winner of the state’s popular vote, Joe Biden. Heh – they could have tweeted that, but how often do you get to see the Oval Office?
TriassicSands
@MomSense:
That is the real dilemma. I feel for anyone in that position. It’s why we needed a massive second stimulus/aid package months ago.
Good luck to you, and try to be as safe as you can be. My sister, who has co-morbidities and will be 70 in a few months, finally retired from a job that put her at some risk. Her son and I breathed a huge sigh of relief when that happened, but we both felt she had unnecessarily waited too long. Sadly, many people have no choice. That breaks my heart.
But it’s not hopeless. Just protect yourself as well as you can.
hueyplong
LOL, Josh Marshall tweets that Biden is considering Merrick Garland for Attorney General.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I would say take out for lunch or dinner is almost as good as dine-in, I would say take-out is 75 or 80% as good. But breakfast? Take out breakfast just doesn’t cut it, IMHO. Especially since the morning is the time when I’m least likely to want to cook, and most of all, clean up, for myself. How the hell my mom made all that bacon and kept the kitchen spotless, I don’t know.
Chetan Murthy
@Raven: A relative asked me the same question about a “work thing in the park”. I replied that while I knew she would take all precautions, she would be put in positions where others’ not taking precautions forced her to either compromise, or be “the asshole”. And that’s a no-win situation. So she shouldn’t go.
Obviously you cannot decide for your friend. But this situation doesn’t go on forever. To paraphrase John Kerry in the Winter Soldier hearings, “Who wants to be the last one to die from a curable disease?” The vaccination is coming; every one of us who can, should and must hunker-down and just wait for it, b/c now we know there’s an end-date to our torment. Some of us cannot hunker-down (MomSense is right), and those of us who can, MUST hunker-down for them, too. The fewer of us there are, out-and-about, the safer people like MomSense, people like my lovely mailman, will be.
For myself, I was planning on going to the optometrist next week (before T-day) but as the cases rose here in SF, I decided “no way mang”. It can wait until spring. Or July. If I hadn’t already decided, Rachel’s video would have convinced me.
JPL
@JoyceH: Hope they wear masks, but I do not think they are that brave.
JMG
Me and Alice for Thanksgiving. It’s not ideal but really, it’s a long weekend with a big meal in it. Certainly that’s not a painful risk-reward decision at all. Christmas if my son and his fiancee can’t come from New York (they’d planned to come for several weeks) will be very hard on Alice and no treat for me, but it looks like that’s how it’s gonna play out. Over in France, daughter pretty much confined to her apartment right now. Lockdown might end Dec. 4, or be extended, probably the latter. She’s just hoping she’ll be able to go to a friend’s house for Christmas dinner there. I should note new infections have dropped 50 percent there since their second lockdown started. Schools open, bars and restaurants closed. What a concept!
Mary G
@Mary G: More:
I read these and imagine Twitler flying into a rage.
Martin
I much prefer the glasses and no makeup Rachel (everyone needs some makeup on TV, but minimal). You can tell that even after all these years, she’s not really comfortable with the full getup. Let Rachel be Rachel.
Ms Martin made her last grocery store run for the time being at barely light oclock this morning. We’re set up for about a month – I sense a lot of beans and rice in our future. We’ll deliver or curbside from here out.
MomDoc
@Almost Retired: Our 18-year old is coming home this evening from Miami. We are putting him in his room for 2 weeks. He is getting tested Wednesday, eating Thanksgiving in his room, and studying for finals the next week. Luckily for us, he’s perfectly happy to chill in his room so I expect he won’t mind for the first week. The second week will be more of a challenge. We sent him a face shield and more masks (N95) for the trip home.
The university is doing a good job of surveilling their students — my son has been tested regularly and has been contact-trace tested a few times on top of that. If only everyone could do that…
ETA: He is home until January 21st so he will have plenty of time to roam the house!
marcopolo
I spent over an hour (mostly siting & waiting in a room w/ my mom pre-surgery) & rode in an elevator (by myself) yesterday for the first time since March as she had knee replacement surgery (long story short, the Dr–who did her other knee 5 years ago–is retiring & it was now or a new person we’ve never met). We’ve both been strict about quarantining since then. After she was wheeled off to surgery I got the hell out of there & will only be back for her discharge. It was not a comfortable experience though there were actually very few folks (other than the staff) around since the hospital is severely limiting who can enter. I suspect she’ll be one of the last folks to have elective surgery procedure for the next 4-6 months as two other of the major hospital groups in our area have already cancelled them.
The thing that pisses me off the most right now Covid related is we have had great vaccine news. We now know we will have vaccines that work well in quantities available for just about everyone come May. With a clear end in sight it drives me crazy that there are folks out there who won’t be able to man up, get with the masking & social distancing protocols, and tough it out until then. And yes, I realize there are a lot of folks who are in dire financial straights, are no longer food secure, are now homeless or about to be evicted. But I wish those folks would focus their ire on the Republicans in DC for not providing the necessary stop gap financial aid needed for, once again, the next six months.
Finally, I really do not understand why there is not a group of folks tasked by the D party leadership to hold a daily press conference pushing this issue. Every day they could showcase people from around the country who have lost/are losing their jobs/businesses, their homes, their ability to feed themselves. I mean fuck, put these people & their Covid related challenges front & center on the steps of the Capital in DC.
C Stars
@Phylllis: I actually miss shopping far more than I thought I would. Starting in March we switched to all delivery, and it’s kind of depressing to make do with whatever weird substitutions you get every time, not to mention that TJ’s does not do instacart or deliver, and that’s where I’ve been doing most of our family’s shopping for the last 10 years. When things loosened up a bit here in CA, for about the last month, I went to Target and also Trader Joe’s a couple of times and was amazed that I could choose exactly what I wanted, what I needed to make my favorite recipes with, etc. I had even decided when I had a spare moment to go to my favorite thrift store for some clothes shopping…now that’s not going to happen. Instead I am going nuts on thredup.com (online thrifting) and have recently received a batch of wacky holiday sweaters. Not something I would normally buy but the pandemic has altered my taste in clothing toward the absurd.
Ken
Political prognostications always remind me of Henry IV pt 1.
GLENDOWER. I can call the spirits from the vasty deep.
HOTSPUR. Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come, when you call for them?
For calling spirits, substitute “guess the nominees”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this is just too fucking funny, funny because Chachi thinks it’s true
Genuinely surprised, as I often was in 2012, how much shit a man with Romney’s massive MOTU ego is willing to eat for these people
MazeDancer
@narya: Just a suggestion, but you might want to cook the turkey, eat as much as you want, and then portion the rest into freezer packets.
That way the turkey will make you happy everytime you eat some.
Because thawing out a big ole frozen turkey is no fun.
Phylllis
@Eljai: Our library system restarted inside browsing a few weeks ago. I haven’t been in because I’m still working through my stack of reserved books. My husband says it’s never very busy and everyone follows the rules. Book people for the win.
SiubhanDuinne
@Raven:
Not to pile on, but I also vote NO.
Martin
@Steve in the ATL: Ms Martin has raised the idea of emigrating as well. I doubt it’ll happen, but that shocked me. I’m open to the idea, but I never thought she’d go for it.
I’m sure she’s thinking NZ – english speaking, non-fascist-curious. I’d be more open – any french or english speaking would be easy. I think Japan would be wonderful. I’d be pretty happy with Scandinavia, but that could be a bit rough weather-wise for my SoCal raised wife.
But dreaming of such a thing during Trump and Covid is very different from doing it after those things are gone. If nothing else, gives us some vacation ideas for the future.
C Stars
@Mary G: These tweets made my day. My elementary-school kid is nonbinary, and a very real nightmare for me during the Trump years has been that lgbtq+ kids would be kidnapped from their parents via the courts or some awful de Vos scheme (though she was for the most part totally ineffective in implementing any policy).
To go from being threatened and demonized to acknowledged, honored, protected…wow. I had no idea how much those words would mean to me until I read them.
Phylllis
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I enjoy fixing breakfast on holidays. Like Thanksgiving, I’ll fix bacon and french toast mid-morning and then we’ll eat our dinner late afternoon. But any random Saturday? I want someone else to fix the grits & eggs & patty sausage and refill my coffee cup.
bluefoot
@Raven: I think it depends on the people. I have some friends who are habitually careful (they’re all trained to properly use PPE, not touch things, etc since they are all bench scientists or doctors) who I’d trust to get together with. But we’d still keep it limited, time-wise. But some others, even if we were outside, no.
About Rachel Maddow: I hope the message gets through to some people. One of the things about COVID is that it’s so pernicious. I know someone who was fine in the morning and died later that day in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. I know a young guy, healthy, who got COVID, was on a vent for a week, recovered, was sent home and two weeks later was back on a vent. He eventually recovered. Someone else I know wasn’t too sick but is now a COVID long-hauler – persistent cardiac and lung issues, plus some neurological symptoms. His wife never got sick.
Once the prevalence rate is high enough, there’s no way to avoid exposure if you’re out in public and indoors (grocery shopping, etc). It’s scary.
Ken
She cleaned when you were at school? That’s what mine did.
BTW my sister bakes bacon, three pounds at a time, at a relatively low temperature. She uses a rack over a shallow baking pan to catch the fat. It works nicely.
Chetan Murthy
@donnah:
Excellent idea! Done!
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mormons are pretty practiced at publicly eating shit while crushing you economically where nobody notices.
Those are the consequences to calling a group a cult for a century.
Phylllis
@C Stars: I do miss poking around in the housewares department at TJMaxx and Tuesday Morning, but with the way the stores and aisles are laid out, not going to chance it. Ordering microfiber cleaning cloths from Amazon is just not the same as ‘finding’ them buried under nine other things at TJMaxx.
Martin
Protip.
Easy bacon, easy cleanup.
Hoodie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It would probably pretty easy for Romney to pull a Murkoski and run as an independent in 2024 if the GOP does try to primary him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Hoodie: I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t even need to run as an indie. I’d bet Ann or Tagg or the Dancying Horse could take out Mike Lee. For reasons I can’t quite compute, those 33 year-old unqualified judges mean more to Mitt than his dignity. Much less the Constitution.
schrodingers_cat
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Broder Junior finally made it!
Redshift
@Raven: If you can’t get them to stop it, then I guess I would convey how much you care that they really mean masks and food protocols — no sitting close together when they have masks down for eating/drinking, no shared serving utensils, etc.
My local family is doing pick-up of food from my parents and everyone going home to eat. Unless my covid test comes back negative, I won’t be the one doing the pickup. If we’re organized enough there my be an extended family zoom. We had talked earlier about eating together outdoors if the weather was warm enough, or having dessert wearing sweaters if it wasn’t, but that was abandoned as things have gotten worse.
Martin
@Hoodie: Nobody is beating Mitt Romney in UT. And Mitt is tacking right where voters want him to be. They’ve been increasingly Dem-curious during the Trump era because they find him to be abhorrent, and anyone so obviously in the pocket of Catholic/Protestant groups is not a friend of Mormons.
SiubhanDuinne
@JoyceH:
Ficksed.
Phylllis
@Martin: I bake mine in the oven a la Ina Garten, but am going to give this method a try. Will report upon awaking from the likely ensuing bacon coma.
SiubhanDuinne
@hueyplong:
Oh snap, as we used to say back in the onions-on-belts days.
MisterForkbeard
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m waiting for the furious insistence that Garland will have to recuse in investigations and cases against Trump and McConnell because they stiffed him on the Supreme Court.
Redshift
Rachel’s commentary was wonderful and sad. The one thing I loved that she expressed is that whatever you think, it’s not about you being brave and toughing it out, because you don’t get to decide who gets sick. We’ve had plenty of “you don’t want your grandmother to die,” but I think that’s a little too indirect, especially since the odds of any given person you know getting it are low enough that it can seem like it’s not really affecting you. The reality is that if you take chances, you’re rolling the dice on people around you getting infected, and the only way to avoid that is to protect yourself from getting infected and spreading it.
Hildebrand
@Steve in the ATL: We are actually one of a small number of 100% African American congregations in the ELCA – aka, the Whitest Denomination in America.
Since we have gone on-line for worship we have been starting to draw from a much larger pool of folks – not just Detroit. Not many Episcopalians in the mix, though a regular from Manchester, UK is Anglican.
Yarrow
I think there’s going to be a run on paper products. I went to Costco a few days ago and they were limiting paper towels to one package per account. Not one per person and no doing two transactions and getting two. They even took a package out of the cart of someone in line near me who had two. There were no toilet paper on the shelves at all. Overheard the guys restocking things saying they had none left in the back either.
zzyzx
@JoyceH: Where’s the source for this? I want to be amused myself :)
C Stars
@Phylllis: Ha! Yes, I find amazon shopping singularly unsatisfying. But, of course, better than risking the unmasked yahoos you come across at about every store these days. I was telling my husband about my last trip to TJs…a man with a bad cough pulled his mask down in order to blow his nose. Everyone within a ten foot radius scattered, but my god, I felt bad for the employees.
On another note, got tested yesterday…
mali muso
@Yarrow: Yeah, I was at Costco earlier this week and while they still had some TP on the shelves, the “limit 1 per customer” signs were back out as well as the list of items they are already sold out of posted at the entrance. We have 2 Costco-sized bundles that I squirreled away in the garage this summer in the event of another run on them. I think we are good for about another 6 months!
Betty Cracker
@Martin: & @Phylllis: I’ve tried these methods, but it’s just not the same as pan-fried bacon, IMO. Maybe I’m doing it wrong.
Ken
The Twilight Zone adaptation of Richard Matheson’s “Button, Button” has a depressingly accurate (IMO) view on that aspect of human nature.
(It’s one of the few Matheson adaptations that I like more than the original story, which I find too much like the Monkey’s Paw. There was also a movie version, but the less said about that the better.)
SiubhanDuinne
@Hildebrand:
That sounds nice. Would you kindly provide a link?
Dan B
@Raven: Are you sharing a bathroom? Will you run the fan non-stop and tape the switch on so that some well meaning, but forgetful, person doesn’t turn it off?
Will all the food be hot, no exceptions?
Are people asked if they will be okay accepting the risk that someone will get sick as a result? (Some people will show up if invited in order to not hurt feelings. Some people never speak up and others are passive aggressive which can wreck the mood.)
Have people been asked – individually, off the record – if they would prefer to wait until next year?
Ie: due diligence.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Eljai: Me three.
Martin
@Phylllis: It’s basically foolproof. And because you don’t preheat the oven, it’s basically one step. Turn on oven, throw it in there, timer goes off, eat.
The cold oven keeps the bacon from curling by heating it evenly.
Ksmiami
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: ok foolproof bacon I learned on a hotel breakfast line- parchment lined baking tray. Layout strips and bake in 375 degrees for 16-18 minutes
Steve in the ATL
@Betty Cracker: We switched to this a few years ago, largely because my wife was taking up too many stove burners. I use parchment paper so I don’t have to clean all the grease off the Silpat, but we haven’t noticed a difference. Maybe it’s because we are 1,900 feet above sea level and you are 0? Or does that only affect cakes, biscuits, and brownies?
Fair Economist
@hueyplong:
Unless we win both Georgia seats, hell no, because McConnell will never approve a replacement on the DC Circuit. It was his blanket filibuster of THREE nominees for that that drove Reid to eliminating the judicial filibuster.
Phylllis
@Martin: Cutting the strips in half helps eliminate the curling as well.
SiubhanDuinne
@MisterForkbeard:
No matter who the nominee is*, the Republicans on the Judiciary Committee are going to be out of control during the confirmation hearings.
*FWIW, my personal choice for AG would be Preet Bharara.
Steve in the ATL
@Ksmiami: get out of my head!
Yarrow
@mali muso: They didn’t have any signs up at my Costco. They should have! Maybe they wouldn’t have had to go around taking things out of people’s carts. I’m fine for paper products. Started stocking up again in September. Same with cleaning supplies. I look every time I’m at the store and if they have some I get some. Much less stressful than running into the empty shelves when you need something.
Dan B
@Raven: Another question: How would you feel if someone died a week before a vaccine was available?
A couple friends died of AIDS after drugs were available. They were too sick to take the drug cocktail. Having it earlier could have helped but a Covid vaccine is in sight. My heart felt like a cold stone for years and this was something we could do little about. Now we can play it sad but safe instead of emotionally devastated and struggling with PTSD.
Princess
Maddow is not my cup of tea, but that clip is really great. It was our kids who cancelled Tgiving for us, and I sent the clip to my son to show him Rachel agrees with him. And it’s the right call. If you’re in a random group of 4 Chicagoans right now, there’s a 25% chance that one will have covid.
Dan B
@The Moar You Know: Thank you, asshole. /s
It’s tough but Christmas will be really tough for hundreds of thousands of families this year. We will be holding many broken hearts.
zhena gogolia
@Hildebrand:
Hi! I used to be a Lutheran, and I really miss it. But it’s just not a thang around here. UCC now, but I miss liturgy.
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Ugh, sounds irritating. I get so annoyed by “editors.”
clay
@Mary G: I daresay that Biden may be one of the most — if not THE most — progressive politicians I’ve seen on the issue of trans rights. Not just supporting it, but putting it front and center of his concerns.
Likewise, in their remarks yesterday both he and Kamala made sure to center tribal areas as deserving of special attention in terms of COVID relief. Again, I can’t remember a national politician who was has been as consistent in this as he has.
glc
We need this kind of message a lot more than we’re getting it at the moment.
And we need to keep harping on it at a micro-local level.
Even after all these months some people really don’t grasp why infectious disease is a community issue. And fortunately in the U.S. we no longer have the ongoing threat of polio as a permanent reminder.
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
We’ll be the two of us, zooming with friends at 3:00 PM. I haven’t decided whether I’ll push to get dinner on the table by then, but it doesn’t matter. I got some smoked salmon and cream cheese for us to have beforehand, and I got a turkey breast and pre-fab stuffing. I’ll make the cranberry sauce off the Ocean Spray label.
Ohio Mom
The hardest part of this current lifestyle is that it isn’t good for Ohio Son — I mean, the priority is obviously that we three are safe and sound at home, but Son had been in a good groove for an autistic 22 year old: he had his classes at the community college, a part-time job with a job coach, a weekly community-building recreation program.
He was stretching his wings and making progress toward finding his niche. Now he is down to two on-line classes. We made him quit his supermarket job because we didn’t want a vector in the house, and his community-building program got put on hold (probably forever).
He’s bored and his anxiety levels are rising. He’s sullen and withdrawn and digging into his most autistic aspects of his personality.
I live in hope that this time next year we will be able to begin picking up the pieces and start over on launching him as much as he can be launched. But it is very discouraging to see how fragile the foundations of his life are.
Me, on the other hand, I’m happy to stay home and putter. I was clearly born to putter.
VeniceRiley
@C Stars: Both Biden and Harris have been quite good at including the TIA+ it’s nice to see.
Thanksgiving is usually a chore for me as it is when I usually fly to Utah to watch my 97 year old mother while my sister goes on vacation. So I’m not doing that this year, as they’re obviously isolating.
Soprano2
I listened to this interview Jonathan Capehart did with Barack Obama on MSNBC. https://www.nbc.com/msnbc-specials/video/a-promised-land-a-conversation-with-barack-obama/4267757 He had on two young men who had benefited from “My Brother’s Keeper”, the program Obama started in 2014 to help young black men, and one of their teachers. It was a different kind of interview from what we’ve been hearing from other outlets, I thought some might be interested in hearing it.
Dan B
@raven: Don’t assume that. She may get angry and she may fight but please ask her some of these questions, especially how she would feel if someone fell ill just before a vaccine was available.
Some people will comprehend a scenario where the emotional risk is laid out. Few people respond to facts. Emotion and compassion are keys we can deploy.
Just One More Canuck
@VeniceRiley: to where, if you don’t mind saying?
zhena gogolia
@Ohio Mom:
That is so hard.
Millard Filmore
@JoyceH:
More like: how often can you catch the ‘Rona from the President? The PRESIDENT!
(ok, maybe catch it in the Oval Office)
Hildebrand
@SiubhanDuinne: Here are a few links:
Facebook Address (I know – I wish we could afford a better livestreaming service): facebook.com/genesislutherandetroit
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgc4dH-EMHToxEn8MiQ1WIA
Website: genesislutheran.org
Ksmiami
@Steve in the ATL: we would make trays and trays of it in the pastry deck oven and go through it all
Sab
@Hildebrand: Back when there was in person church our Episcopal church was full of Lutheran pastors on Christmas day, because we had a service and they didn’t.
WaterGirl
@Raven: Do you want your best shot for you and your bride to be at the one next year? Then we don’t have to tell you the answer, you already know.
Redshift
My sister died a week and a half ago. She had multiple health conditions, so it wasn’t completely out of the blue, but it wasn’t expected either. Not from covid, though the isolation may well have been a contributing factor.
I (and my brother) had to travel to Louisiana to help my college-age niece deal with everything. Everything about it was made more terrible by the pandemic. My parents couldn’t risk going, nor could anyone else from our side of the family. We had a visitation (rather than a memorial or funeral), where people could stop by the funeral home, but most didn’t stay too long and we never had a large group gathered inside. (We had more than I was comfortable with at various points, but I could step outside for a while without it being awkward.)
Traveling was not as bad as I was worried it might be, though I still wouldn’t fly unless absolutely necessary. I was pleasantly surprised with how well people in small-town southern Louisiana were doing with masks. I ended up at one nerve-wracking lunch indoors at a restaurant when the outdoor-seating place we planned on meeting at was closed, but other than that, pretty good. Nobody we had to deal with made a fuss about being asked to mask, and most didn’t need to be asked.
But still, being in a situation where everyone wants to comfort everyone else, and having to be conscious every minute about the pandemic and what’s safe and what you should and shouldn’t be doing, is just horrible.
NotMax
Turns out I was having a senior moment when I said downstairs the three free concerts this weekend are scheduled to start at 1 p.m. Eastern time and shifted the time difference from here the wrong way – they’ll begin at 11 p.m. Eastern time.
Mea culpa.
Ohio Mom
I wonder what’s going on at Vox (a place I don’t visit very often).
Matt Yglesias just left, and now Ezra Klein is going to The NY Times? They were Vox’s founders, IIRC, along with at least one other.
Gin & Tonic
@Millard Filmore: My 5-year-old granddaughter asked her mother today “How come Joe Biden is always wearing a mask and Trump isn’t?”
Enhanced Voting Techniques
“Stay home” is pretty easy to say if you are on a pension or can work at home so that’s an option.
Ohio Mom
Redshift: So sorry for your loss. Good thing your college-age nerve has you and your brother to help her navigate her new, motherless life.
Dan B
@TriassicSands: The stimulus and support for people struggling financially is important, vitally so. This is why my hatred for Steve Mnuchin is so great. December 30th all the support is cut off. No mortgage relief, no rent relief, unemployment extension gone I assume. This needs to be central to the Georgia runoffs.
PsiFighter37
Donnie holding a press conference on drug prices – same old bullshit and lies. But he sounded WAY more deflated than I have ever heard him. Fucker knows he lost.
Humdog
As a hermit, it has been very easy for me, a new excuse early, to not socialize.
But this week has given me renewed empathy for those who have lost cherished activities. I have now temporarily lost my most important daily activity. I had heard rumors of a mountain lion in the general neighborhood but shrugged it off as a normal thing to happen living in a forest, particularly when they have been logging way up the foothills surrounding my property. But I found out that my actual nearest neighbor, a family of pigmy goats, have lost two members to a mountain lion this past weekend. I noticed large scat on my property but put it down the the area bears even though it was red and bear poo this time of year is purple from all the berries. Daily, my dog and I walk on our five acres and a neighbor’s steeper property that has a beautiful stream. Blue loves to zoom through the ferns at reckless speeds, mostly see her as a passing white blur. I don’t know what will settle my mind enough to want to try a walk now!
MisterForkbeard
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Yeah. The “Stay Home” means “Stay Home as much as you can”.
For people who need to work or have other responsibilities, it’s to keep ‘staying home’ as much in mind as possible. I’m still aghast that people are eating out, for example.
WaterGirl
@JoyceH:
In a COVID-ridden white house.
Uncle Cosmo
@Martin: I once heard (or read**) SF author Joe Haldeman describe his absolutely foolproof method for frying bacon:
C’est-à-dire, one stands by the stove with the bacon strips in the frying pan, a turner (slotted or not) in one’s hand, wearing “nothing more than God had graced you with upon your birth.”
It was Joe’s contention that the vulnerability of one’s unprotected “birthday suit” would have a salutary effect on keeping the heat low enough for optimal cooking. Makes sense.
NotMax
@Raven
Another vote to tell your friend nix.
Mary G
I’m on the ancient phone and unable to embed tweets or links today, but I saw Raffensperger certified the Georgia results for Biden, then his office took it back and the abominable Kemp called a news conference for the certification due date? T/F???
Dan B
@Mary G: Who peeled the onion in here? I’ve known at least half a dozen wonderful trans people, and some characters. Their lives added much to mine.
Phylllis
@Mary G: From the AJC.
cckids
@MomSense:
So much this. And I live in fear of bringing it home to my husband. Not even going to take the chance of passing it on to anyone else by going somewhere for Thanksgiving.
Miss Bianca
@Hildebrand: Whoa, I never thought about the fact that online worship means I can join *any* congregation I want! Man, no wonder some of the fundies have been resisting it, lol!
JaySinWA
@Martin: I use a similar baking bacon method. Toaster oven convection setting 350 for about 15 minutes suits my taste.
Geoduck
@PsiFighter37: And he bailed without taking any questions.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@PsiFighter37: Did he take questions?
Baud
@JoyceH:
If true, I will put aside my concerns about the meeting and enjoy how they trolled Trump.
cckids
I saw a sign posted that said ” Remember all the times you asked for support for your Little League team, for band camp, for your Girl Scout troop? Time to pay it back”
Couldn’t agree more.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Our stores here in Champaign IL have been “only 2” since March. And sometimes the paper product shelves are still bare.
Miss Bianca
@Redshift: Oh, I am so sorry to hear it. My condolences.
Dan B
@Yarrow: It reinforces my Sociology 101 prof’s intro that toilet training is the basis of much of socialization. When there’s a crisis why the fuck does toilet paper disappear? Why not food? If you run out of food you won’t need that 200 roll package of TP.
Makes me wonder what kinds of toilet training GOP leaders got. – Scratch that. Nevermind!
Nelle
I have an out. I’m a dual citizen and can return to my other country. But I’m not ready to walk away from my granddaughters (3 and 1 /2). Right now, I’m looking at my energy levels. Sigh. For the next month, I will be taking care of them two days a week, as I have been while a close young friend will care for them the other three. But, come January, it will be my husband and me five days a week or send them back to daycare (they are out because of one positive case, so their classes shut down for 14 days and parents have made pods to share the care while they all still try to work. Those in my family have tested negative but we are still staying away). I’m quite proud of my other country (New Zealand) for multiple reasons, but handling Covid like sensible adults is sure a big one.
Gin & Tonic
@Dan B: Question: I now sometimes see “LGBTI” What’s the “I” for?
Brachiator
@Raven:
Short answer, No.
Longer answer. I might consider it OK with 6 people max.
I might consider it OK if mainly a group of older people who previously rigorously followed health guidelines.
I might consider it NOT OK if party includes older teens and college age students. Greater odds that they might be asymptomatic and have been places where they are more likely to get and spread an infection.
Might consider it OK if outside and separate tables for each household. And of course masks and if one person handles the food. No buffet!
I would not attend if I had any serious underlying health conditions. That would be an instant veto.
Martin
@Ohio Mom: Vox owns a number of other properties like Polygon and they’ve been losing talent as well. Possible they don’t function well as a media conglomerate as they did as a more focused operation.
SiubhanDuinne
@Hildebrand:
Thanks. I’m not a regular churchgoer by any means, and have had stretches of identifying as a straight-up non-believer; but I was a practicing Episcopalian for a long time and I’ve enjoyed streaming occasional Anglican and Lutheran services during the pandemic. I miss the glorious music and the familiar structure of the liturgy. So I’ll join you and your congregation one of these Sundays.
Martin
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Yeah, we’ve been doing that. Honestly, we’ve been ‘eating out’ more since the pandemic, choosing eateries we like for curbside pickup, big tips, etc.
One thing you can do, as we’ve been doing, is buying gift cards. It’s cash for them now. If they survive, you’re rewarded with a meal later, if not, you helped them through another week. So, go order a meal and add a gift card for $20 or $50 or whatever you normally spend, and put the card in a box for after.
Martin
@Gin & Tonic: Intersex.
burnspbesq
@Martin:
One of the things I don’t miss about OC is the crappy supermarkets. HEB isn’t Publix or Wegman’s, but it’s way better than Ralph’s or Von’s.
I do miss breakfast at Del Taco. There is nothing in Texas that comes close.
Felanius Kootea
By the way what happened to Michael Moore? Wasn’t he predicting that Trump would win and shitting on Dems (I think I remember Trump retweeting Moore’s predictions)? Has he come up with an explanation of why he was wrong or does he just get to move straight ahead to shitting on Biden with no pause for reflection?
jonas
@JoyceH: If that’s true — and we’ll see, I guess — it’s probably that they figured that humoring Trump and going to meet him personally was better than blowing him off and having to deal with batshit militia-types threatening to kidnap and behead them or something.
It also appears that they’re trying to make it very clear that they are not going in expecting to engage in some kind of quid-pro-quo conversation about overturning the election for Trump. Because they could, you know, go to jail for that and Michigan’s AG is a Democrat with NFLTG. I wouldn’t be surprised that when his staffers tell him they’re not going to consider replacing electors, Trump just cancels the meeting and leaves them standing in the hallway or something.
Gin & Tonic
@Martin: Thanks. I guess that should have been obvious.
Gin & Tonic
@Felanius Kootea: Moore? Pause to reflect? Does not compute.
burnspbesq
@C Stars:
The very idea of Trader Joe’s gives me chills. Haven’t been there since March, and my next trip will be the day after I get the second shot. And I’ll pull out a KN95 mask for that trip.
Felanius Kootea
@Redshift: My condolences on your sister’s passing. The pandemic just makes everything worse.
Oklahomo
I feel lucky that the folks and I have always been geographically removed from what’s left of other side of the family. And since we spent our lives with horses at a racetrack almost year round and brood mares foaling out from Jan to April, we were stuck in place. We haven’t been to a huge T-Day or Xmas for decades. Since my stepdad now works for me, we have our own bubble shift and we haven’t eaten out since December 2019. We all have health issues and started masking up at the end of February. We’ve turned down a number of requests from family traveling through to meet up. We’re fortunate that we’re used to being half-assed hermit people, and we like it.
Sure Lurkalot
@Nelle: my envy meter is off the charts. I’m too old to be a desirable immigrant but NZ would be on the top of my list. The weather never seems to get too hot and the people I met there were very fun loving. But obviously, serious enough to band together to make hard sacrifices to rid the country of Covid. OK, maybe a bit to probe to earthquakes.
Betty Cracker
@Steve in the ATL: Maybe it’s just different bacon preferences? The oven method delivers bacon that is OKAY but not great, IMO. I want bacon that is brown and crispy enough that when you pick it up, it doesn’t bend and snaps easily. Some people probably consider that overcooked. I dunno.
Baud
@Felanius Kootea:
He’s always wrong when Comey doesn’t bail him out.
Oklahomo
@JoyceH: How often do you get to go to a covid hot zone amidst people openly hostile to masking and social distancing, too…
Martin
@burnspbesq: Yeah, the regular grocery stores are garbage and we don’t go to them. Trader Joes fills a lot of the gap, Costco some of it, and a lot of independent ethnic grocery stores the rest. We don’t hit them often, but hard to beat latino, middle east, asian, indian markets for the good stuff.
I grew up in NYC neighborhood bodegas, so I find the big chain grocery stores to be astonishingly bland and weird.
mrmoshpotato
@Dan B: Back in March(?), May(?) when the somewhat-lengthy stay-at-home orders were in effect, I never understood why people freaked out about toilet paper and soap, but seemingly not food.
Martin
@Betty Cracker: That’s how the method I referenced turns out. The key is the cold oven. If we have very thick bacon, it might need a couple extra minutes, but you can pretty easily get stiff as a board bacon that isn’t burnt anywhere.
Betty Cracker
@Redshift: So sorry to hear it. That’s got to be hard, especially at a time like this.
Martin
@mrmoshpotato: It wasn’t really that they freaked out – it’s that we do about half of our bathroom business at work, school, and the supply chain for them is entirely different than for consumers. So about half of the nations TP production had no buyers, and the other half had twice the demand. Once word got out there were shortages, everyone chose to stock up, just making the situation worse.
Dan B
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t know, or remember, what the I in LGBTI stands for. Intersex?
Our urologist friend from India says that a surprising number of infants are intersex or uncertain genitalia. I recall the number was 1%. Surgery in India is out of reach for a majority so there are many more Intersex there. They are sent to be with Hijra who were considered sacred but the Brits and other influences made them outcasts. Having gender “assigned” at birth has problems. Puberty doesn’t always follow gender assignment.
Aleta
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Seems unreasonable that you can’t print it (with page numbers) and give them a paper copy w/ your hand corrections that the editor would use to enter your corrections. (Also, seriously what a drag if she’s changing too much without sensitivity to your style, to suit her personal preferences.) My sympathy.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Gin & Tonic: “I’ stands for Intersex I believe, here is more info-
What does it mean to be intersex?
“Nearly one in every 2,000 people is born with variations in reproductive or sexual anatomy, or has a chromosome pattern that doesn’t fit with what is typically considered male or female. Such individuals are “intersex” — the “I” in LGBTI — and can identify as male, female or neither. “
Hildebrand
@SiubhanDuinne: We would love to have you ‘stop by’. I will tell you, though, that while the liturgical flow will seem familiar, our music is Gospel/Contemporary – we definitely celebrate the Black church experience. We are a unique Lutheran church. I love working with this congregation – in fact, our congregation’s President was one of the lawyers acting as Democratic observer for the vote count in Detroit. We take the whole ‘do justice, love kindness, walk humbly’ bit serious.
Hildebrand
@Redshift: I am so sorry.
Ruckus
@Steve in the ATL:
Had I of known then, what I know now…….
CaseyL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Is Ezra replacing anyone worse than him?
Dan B
@Betty Cracker: The oven method we used in the restaurants I worked in produced crispy no- bend bacon. We cooked it until it was brown. The ovens were hot and commercial sized so they didn’t cool down. Cook yours longer and try 400 if you can keep an eye on it. Or start at 400 and turn it down to 350 after 5 minutes. This will produce bacon without the half cooked fat.
Martin
@Dan B: My wife has a childhood friend with Turners Syndrome. In her case it’s not a question of gender assignment, but along with a variety of other visual cues, it caused her to appear under-developed. She has very childlike physical features.
Not the same category of challenges that other LGBTQ people face, but it’s been a challenge for her in a host of ways including employment.
My understanding is that intersex conditions are in aggregate not that uncommon, but they are also very rarely spoken of due to cultural stereotypes.
CaseyL
@Betty Cracker: I get that by putting bacon on no-stick foil on a baking sheet, in the oven at 400 degrees, 10-12 minutes per side. (When I go to turn it over, I check to see how done it is and whether it needs less time on the second side.)
Note that I have an electric oven.
Redshift
@MomSense:
Absolutely. One big thing Dems failed to get across (I’m not particularly criticizing, there was so much disinformation to fight) is that with a functioning federal government the choice isn’t between “let the pandemic rip through” and “shut down the entire economy and all hide in our basements until it goes away,” which was basically how the GOP sold it.
First, a shutdown is only for a few weeks until we get virus levels down to where test and trace can work.
For all the workers and businesses the country can function without and who can’t work at home, pay them to stay closed/at home. (No, deficit spending won’t turn us into Greece or Argentina, fuck off.)
For those who are truly essential, provide them with PPE, subsidize retrofits for safe working conditions, pay for them to not be housed with other people if possible, etc.
(I’m sure there’s more I’m forgetting.)
Then tell everyone that if the federal government is allowed to do its part and states cooperate, and we all work together, we can be back to a somewhat normal life with only sporadic local/regional restrictions to deal with outbreaks, saving tens/hundreds of thousands of lives, until vaccination is ramped up.
And the only reason we don’t have this and didn’t have this six months ago is that Republicans won’t allow it, and won’t allow any plan that isn’t “risk your life for our God The Economy, and make sure companies will never pay a price for endangering your life as they see fit.”
Another Scott
A headline at TheHill now – “Cuomo to get Emmy for use of TV during COVID-19 pandemic”
Donnie’s gonna break his phone tweeting insults. He’s going to have unprecedented butthurt. Poor, poor Donnie.
Yay!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Redshift
@Felanius Kootea: Back in 2016, a friend who moved to Indiana years ago (married a guy from there) was really big on the idea that Bernie could win Indiana, really! I didn’t bother to argue much, she’s entitled to her opinion. I didn’t find out until earlier this year that she’s still a big fan of Michael Moore, and now that whole thing makes so much more sense. (As in, I understand now where she got it from, not that the idea itself makes more sense.)
raven
well everyone told me what I already knew. Now for all you married women out there, does your husband tell you what to do?
satby
wow, fast moving thread. I was at the farmers market to pay my booth rent when I found the market manager crying in her office. I asked what was wrong, and she said her mom was in the hospital with covid and is not doing well, and there’s a DNR on the mom (which I *think* is true of almost all covid codes, rescusitation efforts are an aerosol super hazard for medical staff). I managed to say something appropriate, but inside I was mentally screaming “What did you expect would happen?”. Because of course the manager and office staff mostly wouldn’t wear masks in the office or near each other. In fact she pulled her mask down off her mouth to tell me about her mother. People just don’t fucking get it.
raven
@Geoduck: I don’t really need that shit.
Ruckus
@Martin:
I really, really wanted to emigrate to NZ 15-20 years ago, but I had no way to meet the requirements at my age. It is a beautiful country, with extremely nice people. And I don’t see many other countries I want to live in that are either affordable or that the entry requirements are doable.
MoCA Ace
@Hildebrand: Waves Hand! That’s our congregation.
Although any grouping of people who are not in my extended family in our area of rural northern Wisconsin fits that description.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Aleta: She’s in the UK, so electronic edits are by far the easiest. Her changes aren’t unreasonable. It’s just fiddly work.
She does want me to take out a sexy bit which I’m sad about, but she knows the YA market better than I do. And she has to think of where the publisher is going to market it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Another Scott: LOL. Love it. You cheer me up by telling us that.
Felanius Kootea
@raven: Okay, you made me laugh out loud. My husband did play a role in convincing me that going to our friend’s house for Thanksgiving in the middle of a pandemic wasn’t a great idea. Of course, deep down, I knew we shouldn’t go, but I was temporarily taken with the idea of just being around friends and having a little bit of respite from a frankly horrible year.
Good luck!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ruckus: a long time ago and second-hand news, but IIRC some people at Eschaton looked into New Zealand when Bush got a second term, and you needed to prove either a rare employable skill or financial independence, which IIRC worked out to between $5 and 6M.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: I’ve been married to one woman for over 40 years, and there was only one time I really had to say I wasn’t doing something that she wanted to do. I didn’t tell her she couldn’t, but I made really really clear that she was on her own. We’re still together, but, boy, this is a gun that doesn’t have many bullets. Good luck, man.
Humdog
@raven: I think it would work on me if my husband says “I know you have a good and tender heart and I fear it would break you if, heaven forbid, someone gets sick from your party”
WaterGirl
@raven: You can choose not to go. Tell her that if you got it and gave it to her that you could never forgive yourself, so you are not going.
She can make her own choice.
edit: She’s not HOSTING the party, is she?
Immanentize
Fuck — Rudy, who was sweating and wiping his face and sneezing and waving around his dirty hanky — Has tested positice for Covid. As Hoarse tweeted, This is why I support the virus.
Felanius Kootea
@satby: My colleagues who are MDs are convinced that for some, the fact that the virus is invisible makes it easy to dismiss. There are people who understand an enemy you can see but just can’t get it into their heads that an invisible foe we never heard about before 2019 can be lethal.
Maybe someone should come up with a way to make COVID sufferers’ exhalations bright red for the entire period where they are contagious.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Aleta: One thing she wanted me to check was the timing of an event. I had the character saying “tonight” and she asked if that shouldn’t be “tomorrow.” I had to check that, so I got out the notebook I kept for this book. When I write a first draft, I note plans and accomplishments for each day, and also how I’m feeling about the draft. As always I found myself anxious and moaning about how terrible the draft was and how I wasn’t going to be able to do it this time. Also the first draft came in at 47K words and the finished book is 72 K. So it was comforting to see how things came through despite my early, genuine fear.
Ruckus
@clay:
I believe that Joe has always been rather liberal, but I feel like since he served under President Obama, he’s become even more so. It’s like he was always awake, but now he’s on full alert. And that is grand.
raven
@WaterGirl: I already did. She’s framing for her sister it as not wanting Bohdi to have to do 8 hours (round trip) in the car as a rationale to her family. My problem is I worry about something happening on the road (I know, she’s full growd
No, it’s her sister who is a professor and her kids. They have been all over the precautions they are taking and I just said “I’m not going and you can tell them whatever you want.
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think this is less the case now. Or at least, “rare skill” is very different.
My wife and I are in our 30s, two young kids. She’s a software developer and I’m a former developer, now director. BS for me, a MS for the wife. If I give them a net worth of 1 million, supposedly we’ve cleared every hurdle and then some to get in, at least according to their site.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Immanentize: I am preemptively angry that that useless old crook will probably get the same drug trump did, while, if numbers hold, over a thousand people will die because their not connected to the useless old crook still in the White House
Checked the numbers because it’s too serious a subject for hyperbole: 1,962 people died of Covid yeasterday, per the NYT.
Immanentize
@raven: Ha! If I had ever told my wife what to do, she would have told me where to go. And I also learned not to even say that she “should.”
Immanentize
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It is a shame in any way it is dealt out.
But if the other tw0 fake-it lawyers test positive, I will not be upset.
Ruckus
@Ohio Mom:
I’ve always been a worker bee type, but as I am getting up there in years and down in desire and energy I’m finding retirement and not doing more than light workouts to be a damn fine idea. And yes, I’m on lunch break at work right now…
WaterGirl
@raven: We’re all different. I am the only one in my family who is not going to the 10-person, 5-households, 3-states Thanksgiving.
One from Chicago proper (no issues with COVID there unless you count the 25% chance that someone from Chicago has COVID) arriving by train, two from CA, flying in, two from Kalamazoo (surgery 3 weeks ago and surgery again in 2 weeks) college student (no issues there!) one from the Chicago suburbs.
People are gonna do what they are gonna do, no matter how fucking stupid it is. I can’t even begin to understand it.
raven
@Immanentize: I know, right???
raven
@WaterGirl: I guess this just helps me to not crumble and go even if I will worry about her. I don’t give a shit about “the holidays” anyway so that’s no loss.
Immanentize
Also, more good news for law heads:
Immanentize
@raven: You are right, bruh. Holy Toledo!
raven
@Immanentize: Did you mean to just link back to this thread?
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
I imagine you didn’t tell her it’s because shitforbrains is a MFA idiot…… she
Immanentize
@raven: fixed
Steve in the ATL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: so your middle initial stands for “Anaïs”?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Redshift:
Our national motto “In God We Trust” has another, more correct version – “Fuck You, You’re On Your Own”.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl:
Holy hell! Where’s everyone gathering for this act of irresponsibility – Champaign?
Aleta
A question about the news that “More than 900 staff members across the Midwest Mayo Clinic system have been diagnosed with Covid-19 over the last 14 days… ‘Our staff are being infected mostly due to community spread (93% of staff infections), and this impacts our ability to care for patients,’ Kelley Luckstein wrote to CNN in a Wednesday email.”
Since Mayo staff are people who’ve been instructed in risks and protection, and practice safety at work every day, what kind of community exposure is infecting them? Seems like unavoidable exposure would be households with kids who’re exposed at school or with adults who’re exposed at work and can’t distance or don’t wear masks at home. And maybe some staff aren’t practicing what’s required at work or take risks that seem minimal. But are there some who practiced everything they do at work, and avoid gyms, etc.? Infected by what—take out food or containers? Outdoor conversations at a distance with no masks, or grocery shopping with masks? Seems like the ‘data’ on these infections of informed people would be useful.
Fair Economist
@Ruckus:
The last 20 years has made almost everybody not in the Republican nuthouse more liberal.
With Biden there’s the additional issue that as Senator of the State most dependent on incorporations and financial companies he had to follow the line on a lot of things like bankruptcy deform that I suspect he always had more trouble with.
mrmoshpotato
@Uncle Cosmo: LOL
That’s some very interesting reasoning.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: I enjoy the holidays, but I wouldn’t risk the flu for them, much less be part of a spread that could kill one of the probable (over 80 YO) guests. I’m afraid to find out what some of my goofier cousins have planned for my aunts. Maybe they’ll surprise me.
Fair Economist
@Aleta:
Not just with Mayo Clinic. Supposedly CA has made a couple of decisions based on how the cases are spreading but they’ve rarely told us what they know. It really matters if cases are mostly spreading at in-home gatherings, and it also matters how “mostly” that is.
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Well if I went I’d be the oldest at 71. I guess my bride figures there is no way the weather would be good enough to do anything there at Xmas so this is her only chance to see them. As usual, I end up the asshole. And if I get the shit from them and die, well, that’ll learn em.
sdhays
I only got around to listening to the Biden/Harris presser from yesterday today, and while I expect this was discussed yesterday in the thread, I think it’s a significant positive: the official Biden/Harris position on the COVID vaccine is now that it should be universally free. I don’t know exactly when this shift happened, but it doesn’t seem to have gotten the notice it deserves. For a long time, the wording has been “affordable”, but free is necessary to really remove as many barriers as possible for the wide-spread adoption required to actually get the country back to normal.
I was also struck by how often “tribal councils” were name-checked alongside state and local governments. It seems a pretty big deal to talk about tribal councils on an equal footing with other levels of government in the country rather than some separate group shoved in the closet of the Dept. of the Interior. Of course, nominating Deb Haaland to be Interior Sec. suggests major reform in the works for the Federal government’s relationship with native governments. Really exciting stuff.
Ken
Two weeks would be better, if I understand correctly.
Another Scott
@Fair Economist: +1
Everyone (me included!!) rails against Donnie, but Moscow Mitch made it all possible. We can’t let him make things worse by not considering the power he has as Majority Leader. Unless he’s in the minority, we can’t weaken the judiciary and Democratic side of the Senate further.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@mrmoshpotato: Aurora.
Steve in the ATL
@Fair Economist: maybe like Kirsten Gillibrand, whom everyone complained about when she was appointed to the Senate, but who turned about to be a solid liberal when she was able to represent the entire state of New York versus a more conservative slice of upstate NY.
karen marie
@Raven: Is everyone bringing their own food and utensils? If you’re all touching everything, no.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Please glance at #116 above. I done made a silly boo-boo regarding time.
Sure Lurkalot
My spouse and I had some words this summer and fall about visiting his brother and wife who live in the mountains–about an hour and half drive. I was okay with going up for a hike but not going in their house or spending the night. At one point I thought he was going to go anyway but he didn’t.
Now they’re hosting TG. It would only be 6 people including us but 4 households and a predicted high in the mid 30’s means 99% indoor time. But we’re on the same page now and have thanked them for the invite, but no, Zoom or Skype will have to do this year. Same of Xmas too.
Immanentize
@NotMax: I figured out your backwards time concept at 1:00 this afternoon. No worries. I didnt miss a thing!
Ken
At some point we have to consider the idea that it’s not just that the White House is a plague pit, but that someone there is a modern-day Typhoid Mary’s Uncle who is still shedding live virus weeks after his hospitalization.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Saying I drag out of mothballs now and again:
Nobody likes to be should on.
;)
NotMax
@Immanentize
Yeah, don’t know where my head was at. Hope it had a good time while there and observed proper precautions.
Immanentize
@Sure Lurkalot: I sent one of my students the link to Rachel Maddow’s talk from last night. She was getting heavy guilt pressure from her mom to fly to Colorado from Dallas to have a family Thanksgiving gathering/dinner. I think it helped win the argument.
I swear people are demanding attendance MORE this year because of Covid.
Suzanne
This is going to make me sound super-bougie, but whatever: the small thing I miss most right now is brunch on Saturdays. I’m not a big drinker, so I would only have a drink maybe half the time. But I love fancy breakfast food. It’s so great. And I love not cooking or messing up the kitchen.
The other thing that is the BIG thing I miss is pottery. I miss the art studio. I miss it so much.
Immanentize
@Suzanne: Total first world problem. But I get it.
Immanentize
@NotMax: Never heard that before — but lots of people are going to hear it from me!
Dan B
The two GOP congress critters from Michigan who are traveling to DC to meet Trump can’t meet with Trump’s attorneys or enter the White House because they’ve been exposed to Covid. This is according to Axios.
Covid Karma?
Omnes Omnibus
@sdhays: The vaccine should be free and tribal council should be on equal footing with city and county governments. So good for Joe on both counts.
raven
@karen marie: Here’s the problem. We are on our way to the restaurant down the street where we have eaten outside with our socially distant friends since this started. Her position is that what she is doing with her family is the same
and yes, they have all the food planned correctly
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Nah, we are still supposed to hate her because of Franken.
VeniceRiley
@Just One More Canuck: Oh sorry just saw your question. England.
jayjaybear
@Ken: And can we hope it was Ken Vogel?
MoCA Ace
The kind with a 40% positivity rate! Community spread is off-the-charts here. My son works at a Mayo hospital in LaCrosse and he said they are full and cancelling anything that isn’t car wrecks or Covid. My boss is as careful as anyone I know and he developed symptoms the other day… waiting for results. It’s a God dam train wreck here.
Brachiator
@Aleta:
This is a very good question. And the answer for now seems to be “We don’t know.”
This seems unlikely based on what we currently know.
But here is an interesting anecdote from a news story about the pandemic in Pasadena, California.
People typically don’t wear masks at home and tend to be more relaxed and casual in social settings with friends. In the US, I wonder whether people really limit the number of different households with which they associate, or even think about it.
Shorter: I think human beings are very social, and I think that it is not easy for a lot of people to translate health authority guidance into practical advice.
This makes it harder to avoid the virus even when we try to be good.
Immanentize
@Ken: Seems to be a walk back? Now reporting is Rudy’s son tested positive — others are being screened?
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: I think that was a parody account.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Late to the thread, but something like Rachel’s message has already been much in my thinking. There will be some level of vaccination, bending the curve, etc, at which I might begin feeling like it might be OK to poke my nose out of the cave.
But that is tempered by the fact that my wife is much more scared than I am. If I expose myself, I expose her too, without her permission. So Rachel is right that thinking of my own level of risk acceptance is not enough. The question is what level of risk do I accept exposing my wife to?
CaseyL
I am all in favor of Covid-19 establishing close, lifelong friendships with everyone currently part of the Trump Administration and also with everyone currently part of his legal team.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: It was so close to the truth — who knew?
WhatsMyNym
@Fair Economist: Small indoor gatherings are a problem here. We went through tourist season with few (actually none that I saw reported) issues among the visitors staying here.
Seanly
I like Rachel & her politics, but her presentation style drives me nuts. When my brother & I played w/ Star Wars toys, we’d have the ships crash by holding them up & going “vrrreee” as we plummeted to the ground, then we’d do it another 5 or 6 times to get across the great height from which the crash occurred. That’s how Rachel’s show feels to me – you teased me 3 times already about this, now you’ve explained the same thing twice, get on with it!
That said, I hope she & her partner end up okay.
mrmoshpotato
@Dan B: MI Fascist party assholes have been exposed to COVID-19, or is it the White House being a plague ship that’s the problem?
Or both?
Brachiator
@Suzanne:
You don’t miss pots and pans, but miss pottery. Oh, the irony! And the crockery!
No, makes total sense. It’s not just major things, but the loss of countless small rituals and habits and little treats that make us weary as we deal with this pandemic.
Dan B
@raven: Bathroom fan on full non-stop! Bathrooms, even with a mask, are gas chamber / petri dish ccombo’s.
Everyone’s glasses fog up outside in chilly weather. That’s the aerosols that are full of Covid-19. You cannot see them in a heated room but they are there. The reason outside works is the warm aerosols rise up and get highly diluted. Indoors they rise, hit the ceiling and sink back to face level. A small bathroom can take an hour or more for proper ventilation unless the fan is on. That fan should be on for at least fifteen minutes after each use. This is hard to enforce because people get distracted.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Brachiator: I miss cafe’s. I miss hanging out in them for hours, surfing the internet, drinking coffee that somebody else made, maybe getting a sandwich or a pastry, listening to other people’s conversations, everything about the experience.
Yet when lockdown began, I stopped doing all that. And while I say I “miss” it, it’s not really on my mind. It’s more like a fond memory of a thing I expect I’ll do again someday, maybe in a year, maybe two. But no big deal if it doesn’t happen till then.
It’s weird. I used to go stir crazy when I was in the house more than a couple hours and I’d need to go out and do the cafe thing. No more. Happy to spend entire days where the only time I go out is to walk the dog, and I’m happy if he wants to keep those short and to the point.
cckids
If you want to be truly appalled and flabbergasted, drive by one of the Native casinos here in WA. Parking lots full as can be.
Aleta
@Immanentize: good news, thanks!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Steve in the ATL: It’s Ann, which is close enough.
Another Scott
@Immanentize: nycsouthpaw indicates it was a fake tweet.
Given the way he was sweating (very similar to the way Donnie was sweating before it was announced that he was positive), the fact that his son has tested positive, the close crowding at Rudy’s press conference, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a real announcement in a day or so…
Cheers,
Scott.
Dan B
@mrmoshpotato: The MI GOP critters have been exposed. I believe at least one was already on the plane.
Of course the White House is a plague ship as well.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
Definitely don’t go, and she shouldn’t go either. If you want me to tell her, I will.
Dan B
@cckids: The casinos are on sovereign territory so Inslee can’t regulate them. This seems like trouble. Maybe cigarette smoke cuts down on transmission, but I kid myself.
Brachiator
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
I know what you mean. I’m in Southern California, and there are three eateries I still go to that have outdoor dining. The owners are meticulous in observing health department guidance. The outdoor tables are well spaced, but even so I tend to try to have at least two tables between myself and other people.
There is another place I walk by where the tables are too close together and people sit even closer. I would not eat there if you gave me a free coupon.
I work at home and used to go to the movies, sometimes by myself, on weekends, to relax and unwind. It is weird to have to accept that all the movie theaters near me have shut down.
karen marie
@Immanentize: Got a link to anything more than a tweet? I’m getting bupkis with the google.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
But it’s getting worse. All of us are stopping doing some things we were doing a little while ago.
Humdog
@satby: late reply but I’d like to thank you for being kind to the manager of your crafts mart. We are so angry and exasperated with MAGAts and anti maskers cavalierly endangering other citizens. But your kindness also means even more to them because they surely don’t see lots of kindness from their compatriots. On the rare occasions any more that I have contact with my family, I take their amazement when I show I understand whatever pain or issue they bring up to mean they simply do not get or give much empathy in their regular lives. She won’t thank you for your kindness, but I will and I bet she remembers it.
Dan B
@zhena gogolia: I’ve been in the heartbreak of watching people sicken and die while nothing could be done. AIDS was 100% fatal. Covid is not but it’s awful to watch people take risks because they are lonely or going stir crazy. It tears at my heart.
I’ve had memories of people for 20 years. That’s all that’s left.. It’s enough to trigger the heartache.
Why people? Why?
burnspbesq
@Immanentize:
‘Rudy’s son the WH staffer—who was such an asshole that his teammates forced the coach to kick him off the golf team at Duke—has also tested positive.
Ben Cisco
No gathering for me this year – Duo call is as close as we’ll get. Doing anything else is simply irresponsible and stupid and life-threatening. Not. Gonna. Happen.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@raven: Nope.
All of the people he tried to recruit for his army said “are you out of your mind?” or “you ain’t got nearly enough money” something along those lines.
bluefoot
@CaseyL: For certain values of the word “lifelong.”
bluefoot
@Dan B: I’m having a problem now with my bathroom fan. I recently moved into a new apartment, and it quickly became clear that my unit shares the same vent as the bathroom in the unit above me. (I can smell their bath products, and my bathroom gets humid when they showering.) It’s three young people who demonstrably do not practice social distancing,and at least one is working or attending classes in person. I am seriously considering breaking my lease and moving. This can’t be safe.
In the meanwhile, I have my bathroom window cracked open at all times, even though we are entering the New England winter.
zhena gogolia
@Dan B:
I vividly remember AIDS too.
Dan B
@bluefoot: Sheesh! This seems like a public health issue.
Is your public health department any good? It would be worth a call. It might give you some cover in breaking the lease.
bluefoot
@Dan B: I looked up the regulations for rental units here, and it only specifies that the bathrooms need to vent and there is a minimum airflow required. But doesn’t say anything about sharing a vent or duct. A friend of mine who lives in another part of town says he occasionally gets smoke through his bathroom vent from one of his neighbors who smokes. So I guess it’s not uncommon here? The health department is a good idea, though. My landlord has been completely non-responsive.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
l had a marketable skill but you had to be employed there for a year and be younger than a certain age, or have $5mil. I have no idea what $5mil is and I was exactly that certain age. Which made me SOL.
Dan B
@zhena gogolia: It feels as though people no longer feel what it is like to lose someone. AIDS felled so many in their prime, especially gregarious, interesting, and handsome guys. They could suddenly vanish from sight because of the shame or the sudden onset that would render them incommunicado. I lost a friend this way – found out he’d died from an acquaintance. I’d known him since grade school 3,000 mikes away from Seattle. He was one of my few friends who loved backpacking. I look at pictures of our hikes. That’s all that’s left besides the memories.
Why don’t people feel how terrible the risks are?
Loneliness and regret can last months or forever. One ends in time and the other never ends.
Dan B
@bluefoot: I had a walk in closet in a nice old building. I had a Guinea Pig. Friends gave me the dozen they no longer wanted. The vent was in the walk in closet (with the Piggies). I got in trouble.
Ah youth!
WaterGirl
@Dan B: I’m sure this is especially hard for you and others who had such losses with AIDS, and on top of that had watch the government do nothing for such a long time. And now you have to watch the government do something similar. So wrong.
satby
@Humdog: (blushing ☺) thanks
bluefoot
@Dan B: I am with you on this. Enough people have got COVID that I would think pretty much everyone knows someone who has died or been seriously ill. But I guess the harm hasn’t been evenly distributed. Like the earlier days of AIDS, back when people thought it was “homosexuals, hemophiliacs and Haitians” so they could ignore the huge amount of human suffering and loss going on around them.
I’ve lost so many people I love through my lifetime, and it makes me unspeakably angry to see people unwilling to even wear a mask. I want to shake them all and ask them, “Do you want to die? Do you want to kill people you care about?”
(I did recently read “Dying of Whiteness” and still can’t believe for some people the answer is “Yes” even in the face of all the facts.)
ETA: I lost a high school friend a couple of months ago to COVID. We had mostly lost touch, but then she called me after my mom died earlier this year and it was such a gift to talk to someone who had know my family for so long, who really understood that loss. And then a few months later, she got COVID.
glc
@Ohio Mom: Vox and Wikipedia are two places I don’t “visit” very often, in an old-fashioned sense, but I land there frequently when looking for reliable information on one thing or another.
Like you, I wonder how they are doing, and, more particularly, how they will do going forward
In good news, there are now at least two sane people writing columns for the NYT (another place I don’t “visit” though I do land there as well, occasionally for useful information, more often for examples of egregiously lazy reporting and/or beat sweeteners).
I wish Ezra well.
Aleta
@Ben Cisco: Happy birthday yesterday! ? ?
Amir Khalid
@Immanentize:
Where did you read that? I just googled him and there’s no news story to that effect.
WaterGirl
@Amir Khalid: That ended up being a spoof twitter account. You are correct – it’s only Rudy’s son who has COVID.
Brachiator
@bluefoot:
Very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. I have had some people I know come down with Covid-19, but all have recovered. I dread losing friends and family as this thing continues.
And I feel sad whenever a Balloon Juicer notes that someone close to them has come down with the virus.
Take care. Be safe.
Ohio Mom
Blue foot @258:
I’d consider hiring a handyman to close up the vent. Take down the fan (this will require a small bit of electrical work), put up drywall and paint. You may have to do the wall switchplate too.
Or do it yourself, I’m sure there are DIY YouTubes to follow.
You don’t need it, you have a window. And Don’t let the landlord know!
I’m guessing this will be cheaper and less of a hassle than moving. When you consider all the miserable things tenants do to apartments, this is nothing. After you move out, thr landlord might never notice.
ETA: on second thought, maybe you need to find the circuit breaker box before disconnecting the fan? Maybe this won’t be so easy..
rikyrah
@hueyplong:
Nope ?
rikyrah
@Raven:
Nope ?
See them in 2021
Ruckus
@cckids:
I would think that gamblers are willing to take risks a lot easier than non gamblers. Isn’t that the point of gambling, taking risk? Of course it’s risk of losing money, not risk of losing your life…..
susanna
@Humdog: I hope you find a way to resume the walks, perhaps in a safer locale, a different time of day, for now, so you wouldn’t likely have the fears of any around. It sounds like your dog likes those walks as well. Maybe call a vet or animal control to find out when, where would be good for walking. Be safe, stay aware. I’m a daily nature walker as well. and consider it a necessary requirement for my mental balancing.
susanna
@raven: Hardly, it’s considered to be his opinion with no expectations attached. My usual is to weigh it, consider his option seriously, or not, and explain to him why I’m choosing to do it anyway. If it would compromise him in any serious way, I’d figure out a compromise.
J R in WV
My next door neighbor is an old time mountain music performer, has won blue ribbons at festival contests over the years. He also works on and rebuilds wooden string instruments, from Banjos and Guitars to antique violins. He corresponds with Davin Bromburg, who also works on such instruments.
Before the Trump Plague he and his wife would have evening pot luck dinner parties with a dozen musicians playing together. One of these musicians was a fiddler, also a RN studying to be Nurse Practitioner, very soon now, right next to being a doctor.
She is barely recovering from Covid, slowly, slowly. You all probably know playing the fiddle is one of the most difficult instruments in terms of physical requirements. We are all hoping that she recovers well enough to participate in these neighborhood gatherings, once the Trump Plague is over. I fear she will not come to the potluck dinners if she can’t play with the crowd. Which would be a shame!
Humdog
@susanna: thanks for your response. I hate sharing something and feeling as if I just whispered into the wind. I need to come up with something or my beagle mix will start destroying things as she does when she doesn’t get enough exercise