Has there ever been a more emotionally insecure and manipulative human being on the planet:
At a meeting on Wednesday at the White House, President Trump had something he wanted to discuss with his advisers, many of whom have told him his chances of succeeding at changing the results of the 2020 election are thin as a reed.
He then proceeded to press them on whether Republican legislatures could pick pro-Trump electors in a handful of key states and deliver him the electoral votes he needs to change the math and give him a second term, according to people briefed on the discussion.
It was not a detailed conversation, or really a serious one, the people briefed on it said. Nor was it reflective of any obsessive desire of Mr. Trump’s to remain in the White House.
“He knows it’s over,” one adviser said. But instead of conceding, they said, he is floating one improbable scenario after another for staying in office while he contemplates his uncertain post-presidency future.
There is no grand strategy at play, according to interviews with a half-dozen advisers and people close to the president. Mr. Trump is simply trying to survive from one news cycle to the next, seeing how far he can push his case against his defeat and ensure the continued support of his Republican base.
By dominating the story of his exit from the White House, he hopes to keep his millions of supporters energized and engaged for whatever comes next.
I wouldn’t put up with this shit from someone in my dad guild in the World of Warcraft, but here we are with this imbecile as the President. Instead of shoplifting or getting a DUI for attention, instead he fires the Secretary of Defense. The only thing he hasn’t done is threaten to kill himself, and that’s probably because he knows some of us might encourage it.
And let’s talk about his enablers:
A group that was once seen as censorious became the least strict chaperone at Trump’s bacchanal. Under the president’s influence, White evangelicals went from the group most likely to believe personal morality matters in a politician to the group that is least likely. “We’re not electing a pastor in chief,” explained Jerry Falwell Jr., the former president of Liberty University. Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Dallas, argued that “outward policies” should matter more than “personal piety.” Ralph Reed of the Faith and Freedom Coalition made his case for Trump’s reelection based on conservative deliverables. “There has never been anyone,” Reed said, “who has defended us and who has fought for us, who we have loved more than Donald J. Trump.”
This is politics at its most transactional. Trump was being hired by evangelicals to do a job — to defend their institutions, implement pro-life policies and appoint conservative judges. The character of the president was irrelevant so long as he kept his part of the bargain. Which Trump largely did.
But now we know what a president without character looks like in the midst of a governing crisis. We see a dishonest president, spinning lie after lie about the electoral system. A selfish president, incapable of preferring any duty above his own narrow interests. A reckless president, undermining the transition between administrations and exposing the country to risk. A vain president, unable to responsibly process an electoral loss. A corrupt president, willing to abuse federal power to serve his own ends. A spiteful president, taking revenge against officials who have resisted him. A faithless president, indifferent to constitutional principles and his oath of office.
That this is obvious to Michael Gerson, of all people, really says it all.
Hunter Gathers
The only democracy evangelicals believe in is Herrenvolk democracy.
schrodingers_cat
Michael Gerson has been consistently calling out the Orange Pumpkin on his BS for over 5 years now.
MattF
A malignant narcissist is a malignant narcissist.
Nicole
@Hunter Gathers:
Truth. (I’m presuming the “white” before “evangelicals” is implied in your statement)
terraformer
Back in the BushCo years – which led John to “switch sides” – the number we always heard was “27%.” No matter what BushCo did, no matter how heinous, there was always that 27% who supported it.
I know much has been written about this election, but I remain amazed how that number has grown to about 50%. As someone wrote recently, 50% (70 million voters this election) took a look at the last 4 years and said, “I want more of that.”
I think that’s one of the biggest issues for the US in terms of elections and politics. Every other person you see in public is “one of them.” I don’t know what the answer is, or even if there is one.
So instead, I laugh about (near) fantasies, like agreeing that “the Right” can take Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida – but somehow keep Louisiana blue, if at least for New Orleans – for themselves, and fucking secede. Let them build their wall around it all, and wallow in their apparently preferred worldview where everyone pulls themselves up by their bootstraps, no healthcare, no regulations, and no taxes from other states. It’s a nice fantasy.
Just Chuck
As the saying goes, “If fish could speak, they would have no word for water.”
Same goes for these “evangelicals” and hypocrisy.
Calouste
There’s a bit missing in one of those quotes:
Citizen Alan
The “moral supremacy” of Evangelical Christianity has been destroyed forever. Satanists hold themselves to a higher ethical standard.
Baud
I know Trump doesn’t keep his promises, but he did promise a lot of people he would never come back if he lost.
Doug R
@Nicole:
Occasionally Politico stumbles on a good story, like this one from 2014:
The Real Origins of the Religious Right They’ll tell you it was abortion. Sorry, the historical record’s clear: It was segregation.
Nicole
I was connected on social media for awhile with a few right-wing (I didn’t realize the extent of the right-wing at the time) nutjobs through a mutual interest in horse racing. I blocked one of them from seeing my FB posts years ago, but this week I have taken the opportunity to peek at his page to see how he’s been handling this (most of his posts are public anyway, as he, like Trump, is an attention whore), and he 100% believes Trump will have a second term. It’s bananapants, the justifications he comes up with, but there it is.
His latest reason for hope is that the betting markets lowered the odds of wagering on Trump to win from 25-1 to 10-1. Mind you, that wagering is just general public putting money down on what they think might happen. It has no actual connection to facts on the ground. And in this case, the race played out exactly like we were told it would; Trump started out with an in-person lead, but got whomped once all the votes were in. But this idiot is using betting markets of people throwing money away because Trump won’t concede as a glimmer of hope. It’s weird.
Oh, and he also calls his wife, “This” in posts, as in, “this belongs to me,” so there’s that. You can’t make this stuff up. There are a lot of terrible people in the world.
dmsilev
The story you haven’t heard about that viral image of Kamala Harris and Ruby Bridges
Doug R
@terraformer: It’s NOT 50%.
Biden is already at 50.8% and his percentage will keep increasing.
Reagan’s “landslide” was only 50.7%.
The suppression including the USPS fuckery probably cost us a couple of Senate seats.
But we’ve got a chance to pick up 2 seats in Georgia in January.
Ruckus
It’s been apparent to a lot of republicans. But shitforbrains is their guy. He’s who the party selected, he’s who they like or at least follow because he says the quiet parts out loud and proud. If you don’t look too hard, like distance from the earth to the moon without your glasses, one eye closed and a mind clamped shut like a bank vault at 2 am, he’s got money and that alone makes him a republican. That he’s a raging racist ass is OK in their world, they are not exactly the open inviting party of acceptance to reality. And they have an entire news segment reenforcing all of that daily, run by true believers. The republican party has devolved into a cult. Some say the road to get there was very, very short, just a hop and a skip. This is who they have been for well over 100 yrs, it’s just they are now screaming it from the rooftops of their bunkers and before this they had an understanding of mostly not saying it in public. They are just out and proud to be the same racist, economic thieves they’ve always been, they just elected the perfect schmuck to be their spokesmoron.
Nicole
@Doug R: Yeah, I remember that piece; it’s a really good read. I’m glad you posted the link.
Having known some white evangelicals in my time (like the kind who wouldn’t read Harry Potter books because there was witchcraft in them kind), it’s absolutely true. I haven’t known one who wasn’t, after you scratched the surface, chock full of prejudices.
khead
@Citizen Alan:
Don’t kid yourself. Those folks can do whatever they want and yet still claim they are better than you because you are a baby killer. Ask them. They will tell you.
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
Satanists have actual ethical standards. You may not agree with them but their ideals haven’t changed nor been hidden for ever.
Nicole
@dmsilev: My only objection to that image is that the artist put Kamala Harris in stilettos. For the love of Pete, the woman wears sneakers with pride and can we please also celebrate the shortest person ever elected to the VP office? PETITE PEOPLE REPRESENT! :)
But yeah, otherwise that picture makes me cry a bit.
(Come to think of it, the shorter candidate won in both positions this year, as I think Biden is an inch shorter than Trump. See? Confronting biases everywhere. There IS hope for the nation! )
Zinsky
Trump isn’t smart, but he is cunning. He is delegitimizing Biden/Harris before they even set foot in the White House. I’m sure David Bossie, Roger Stone and the other GOP slime merchants are formulating new bogus investigations even as we write here today. Republicans turned a bad $60,000 real estate investment made by the Clintons 12 years before Bill became president, into an 8 year, $52 million investigation. Imagine what they can do with Hunter Biden’s laptop and a bunch of transactions Hunter had with Ukrainian and Chinese clients! Count on four years of nothing but Hunter Biden investigations and related nonsensical offshoot narratives….
dmsilev
When it comes time to drag Trump out of the White House, there will be plenty of Secret Service agents who will eagerly volunteer to help.
More than 130 Secret Service officers are said to be infected with coronavirus or quarantining in wake of Trump’s campaign travel
Citizen Alan
@khead: What they “know” is irrelevant. I’m simply saying that when I hear any Evangelical bloviating about morality, I will call them a Fake Christian to their face and inform them that Jesus is going to send them screaming straight to hell to burn forever.
Quinerly
Trump talked to Byron York yesterday. Warning Washington Examiner link. Here’s an excerpt of Trump’s babble and lies:
“We’re going to win Wisconsin,” he began. “Arizona — it’ll be down to 8,000 votes, and if we can do an audit of the millions of votes, we’ll find 8,000 votes easy. If we can do an audit, we’ll be in good shape there.”
“Georgia, we’re going to win,” he continued, “because now, we’re down to about 10,000, 11,000 votes, and we have hand-counting” — a reference to the coming recount. “Hand-counting is the best. To do a spin of the machine doesn’t mean anything. You pick up 10 votes. But when you hand-count — I think we’re going to win Georgia.” He’ll also win North Carolina, Trump joked, “unless they happen to find a lot of votes. I said, ‘When are they going to put in the new votes in North Carolina? When are they going to find a batch from Charlotte?'”
And
“The two big states,” Trump said, before allowing, “They’re all sort of big.” In those two, Trump is pinning his strategy on protesting the exclusion of his campaign’s observers during critical periods of vote-counting. “They wouldn’t let our poll watchers and observers watch or observe,” Trump said. “That’s a big thing. They should throw those votes out that went through during those periods of time when [Trump observers] weren’t there. We went to court, and the judge ordered [the observers] back, but that was after two days, and millions of votes could have gone through. Millions. And we’re down 50,000.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/byron-yorks-daily-memo-newsletter-exclusive-trump-talks-post-election-fight
dmsilev
@Nicole: She is certainly serious about her sneakers, but I believe the illustration used an actual Harris-wearing-heels photo, so I’ll allow it…
dmsilev
@Quinerly: Geez, the Downfall parody has become reality.
Kay
That’s magical, childish thinking though. “Bargains” have two sides. He owns them now and I don’t think they’ve given the slightest bit of thought to what that means longer term. Look what they’ve given him in just the last two weeks. They’re all lying on his behalf constantly, they’ve thrown the whole concept of democratically-elected leaders into question and they’re actively harming the country protecting him. They’ve smeared and attacked their own, targeting election officials in Georgia and a local GOP elected official in PA. They think they’re never going to have to pay the price for this, and, wow, that is a really arrogant assumption. It isn’t free what they’ve gotten. The bill just hasn’t quite come due yet.
Al Z.
We’ve all heard Jonathan Pie, Yes?
https://twitter.com/rexchapman/status/1327000685318172676?s=12&fbclid=IwAR3nHcyJZPbbYLuT6QFtvKHIWL2SB913X0FuXc7QvMUKGDtOVY4plw7-U2Y
raven
@Ruckus: Say what you want about nihilists. . .
Calouste
@Nicole: I’ve always found it curious that people who literally believe that if you say some words things magically happen, have problems with fiction books where things magically happen when characters say some words.
mali muso
@Doug R:
@Nicole:
There is a great blog called the Slacktivist run by a progressive Christian who calls this whole ethos “Satanic baby-killers”. He notes that the white evangelical movement, having utterly failed the critical moral test of the times by opposing civil rights, had to pivot to abortion in order to salve their wounds and convince themselves that they were still the arbiters of morality. Because what is more horrific than baby-killers? If that’s what you are opposing, then you get to feel morally upright and can justify pretty much anything. The corresponding echo today being this summer with the rise of Qanon in tandem with opposing BLM.
negative 1
As a Christian, this shit makes me sad. I know plenty of religious people that worry about personal character of the president. I’m actually not one of them, but then I don’t vote republican. What I will say though is that it has gotten to the point where a movement that is supposed to be dominated by the concept of judgment free love for your fellow man has as its spokespeople purely political actors.
Look at the quotes from the ‘Christians’ in the interview — Falwell inherited a business. Even among the movement he was never a credible pastor. Ralph Reed is entirely a politician. His background is political. He was a lobbyist who happened to find a movement. So of the 3 spokespeople for Christianity only one was even a religious leader (and I’m being kind to Jeffress for sure).
It has come time to enforce the idea that the portion of your sermon, or church activity, that is political should be taxed as such. Don’t want to be taxed? Then stop ‘preaching’ politics. Anyone who is a real Christian should agree with me.
@Nicole: It shouldn’t be — Creflo Dollar would like a word.
Ken
@Ruckus: Plus, there are at least two kinds of Satanists, both with actual principles. There’s the ones who really worship Satan. Then there’s the ones who claim they do, as a way to bring first amendment lawsuits and promote religious freedom. It’s possible the second type outnumbers the first.
gvg
Washington Post has a story up about how Trump and his children are arguing about conceding or not in the context of what’s best for them, ignoring what’s best for the country.
The New York Times has a story up about the electoral college being immoral. Another story called Trump a con man-actual used that word not a euphemism.
About 1/2 of both papers front is Covid stories and most of the rest are Trump.
Kattails
My step father can’t understand why I am so angry (he and Mom are Trump supporters, living in FL, 1500 miles away and I’ve never been so grateful for that distance. The three neighbors with Trump signs STILL HAVE THEM UP. I should go find some American flags and set a dozen of them around my Biden/Harris sign. I feel a blistering letter to the editor coming on.
debbie
@Doug R:
Yeah, but the post office managed to loosen lots of ballots from Trump’s logjam and deliver them at the last minute. Trump got caught out, never expecting them to show up. This is his basis for shrieking “Fraud!” endlessly.
Another Scott
Umm… Really??!!
I don’t think a day has gone by that I have regretted dropping our WaPo subscription in the W years.
Cheers,
Scott.
Nicole
@dmsilev: Fair enough. But I do love the chucks becoming a part of her brand, so to speak. Heels suck and they make your feet hurt and I absolutely love the message a powerful woman in flats sends to little girls (and little boys, for that matter).
dnfree
@Nicole: speaking of how some men refer to their wives, “the wife” drives me around the bend. It’s like an interchangeable part—“the dishwasher”. If it breaks down, you’ll just get a new one. And “wifey”, which one of my nephews uses for his wife.
My husband and I were filling out forms yesterday, and had to put each other as emergency contacts. I use “spouse” as our relationship, and I was interested to see that he did the same.
debbie
@Quinerly:
Gah, he always thinks he’s the smartest in the room.
Chief Oshkosh
And who is allowing him to dominate the news cycle? Well, NYTimes, you and your ilk are. You fucking assholes.
debbie
@gvg:
I listened to a bit of Glenn Beck this morning and got an Idiot Twofer: Bill O’Reilly. They are both convinced the lies from the left about COVID cost Trump the election, along with Pfizer’s deliberately not announcing a vaccine until after the election. They don’t think Biden will leave the WH basement unless he’s being trotted out like Bernie’s Weekend. Even better, they both hinted at being wooed to join whatever Trump’s planning for his network.
A laugh fest all around.
Nicole
@mali muso:
That makes a ton of sense. Everything comes back to a desperate need to believe, “I’m a good person!”
(We’d be in such better shape if we stopped thinking of it as good or bad people, and instead thought of it as good or bad actions and at the end of the day, you’ve got more of one in your book than you do of the other and which do you want?)
Puddinhead
@Quinerly: He sounds like Charles Manson testifying in court. Just bonkers.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Doug R: Yep, Trump’s support is the same in the end as Bush’s was, Distributed Jesus Land. That’s what makes the succession talk silly, outside some broke ass rural state like South Dakota any state that would try to succeed would have instant civil war between the cities and the rural counties. So Trump could be president of the upper midwest, call it Baja Canada.
geg6
@Nicole:
Don’t be so sure that Trump is really taller than Biden. He lies about his weight and height all the time, according to people I’ve seen on tv who know him well. And there is pretty much no doubt that he wears lifts.
hells littlest angel
I imagine Jerry Junior really does see Trump as a virtuous man, perhaps even to the point of prudery. Trump wouldn’t even consent to let Falwell watch Trump have sex with Falwell’s wife. (There’s no way to use a pronoun anywhere in that last sentence.)
Nicole
@dnfree: Yeah, I agree with you. I like the rise of gender-neutral terms because there are so many inherent biases in so many of the words we use.
There’s no diminutive for “husband.” No one says, “husby.” Which says a lot about how we view the two roles.
Oh, and “the little woman.” AUGH.
Geo Wilcox
Evangenitals is what I call them. My parents were involved with that cult Sabrina the Teenaged Justice is in deep with. Back in the early 70’s the Cali branch was little more than a wife swapping club if the stuff I saw going on in my bedroom is any indication… I can count on both hands how many times I went to my room only to find people who were supposed to be praying messing around if not actually doing the dirty. AND it was different ones each time. I don’t think my parents ever knew and I sure as shit was not going to tell them only to be in big trouble for lying about such godly people. Ugh.
Frankensteinbeck
Bullshit. Trump is whining and flailing. It’s what he does and what he has always done. Who can look back on the last four years and think Trump has anything remotely resembling a coherent strategy? He’s floating every idea to cheat that he can, and they’re getting shot down. I’m sure he has mentioned a military coup. This was always going to happen. He does not have and never had any moral restraints. The system just won’t give him what he wants. He does not have the physical ability to cheat on the scale he desires.
His supporters are already drifting away. Most Republicans are just depressed and resigned. He’ll lose another big chunk when the electors vote, and more when Biden moves into the office. There won’t be enough left after that to bother with.
They love Trump’s personal morality. They just can’t say it in public. Well, hypocrisy, cover stories for bigotry, and do-what-I-say-not-what-I-do are the literal founding principles of Evangelical politics. However, the transactional side is also important. They wouldn’t have sacrificed their public dignity of pretending they won’t accept someone so crass if Trump couldn’t deliver the goods.
On January 20th, Trump can no longer deliver the goods.
@MattF:
Everything I’ve been saying about how Trump will check out. Not that I was the lone voice on that subject.
@Kay:
No, he doesn’t. They can walk away and lie about whether they supported him, or why they supported him, or just ignore the subject. They’ve done it before. Rebranding is a Republican base specialty. Where are the Teabaggers? They’re MAGAs now, and they’ll be something else in six months.
Seriously, Kay. He does not own them. He has no power over White Evangelicals whatsoever. Once he loses the presidency, there is nothing he can do to them and no reason they need him. You see the stain of dishonor as permanent, but to anyone whose opinion they care about it wipes away in an instant.
@mali muso:
Something else I have said many times. Evangelicals don’t give a rat’s fart about abortion itself, but boy they love the moral high ground they can claim and the abuser’s self-righteous sadistic thrill as they use it to push anti-women, anti-minority, and anti-sex policies.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Zinsky: Do go look at the Libertarian vote this last election, it was easily 1-2% in many states. All Trump did was reinforce the “a pox on both your houses” with disaffected Republicans.
And let us note the example of John Cole, Libertarian is the halfway step towards Democrat.
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: He is definitely fatter than Biden.
geg6
And I may be out of here for a few days. I can’t take all the gloomy Guses around here. We won a big election and may take the Senate in a few months with some hard work and good attitudes. There is much too little good attitude on BJ lately for me. I’ve spent the last four years despairing and I refuse to preemptively sink into further despair simply because too many people around here can’t ever see anything optimistic or good. Tired of it now.
Kay
@Chief Oshkosh:
But Biden voters don’t want Biden to “dominate the news cycle”. The normies. They want peace. They want this reality show to end. Normal people hate campaign cycles. The thing is supposed to end.
I don’t know how this ends for Donald Trump and the Republican Party but their absolute confidence that it all accrues to their benefit seems to me to be a very big bet. They didn’t get the kind of Party-wide drubbing we hoped they’d get but taking that as license to double down on the crazy instead of thinking “whew-dodged that bullet”? Wow. I wouldn’t do it.
Nicole
@geg6:
And see, that’s an example of height bias right there. Is it that important to you that Biden be taller?
I’m not using it as an attack on you; we all grew up in this society and in this society height (for men) and weight (for everyone, but mostly for women) are the two physical prejudices that we still find it socially acceptable to use against people. I’m just pointing out it’s a bias.
Does Trump lie about his height and weight? Who knows, but he does it because of our societal bias against being “short” and “fat,” and that’s on all of us.
Amir Khalid
@Nicole:
Biden is six foot two, and has never made a big deal of his height. Trump claims to be six foot three. Biden doesn’t wear lifts. Trump does.
Nicole
@schrodingers_cat:
(puts head down on desk)
schrodingers_cat
@geg6: I agree with you. BJ has become an echo chamber of doom.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Someone over at KOS was pointing out a big part of Trump’s fucktard appeal is he is a fixture on Rush’s AM radio show and Rush now has terminal cancer. I’ve heard enough of Rush to know he can make a fun show, but without that, what does Trump have, a hour long rant from Trump every day week after week about how the world is so unfair to him. No one is going to stay hooked to that. Trump is more like Sideshow Bob to Rush’s Bart Simpson.
Ian
@Ken: I’ve always understood it as three types, those who worship satan to piss off christians, those who worship satan to promote the lawsuit/amendment stuff like you mention, and then the ones you actually have to look out for. The <1% of so called satanists who actually believe in satan.
mali muso
Twitter thread from The Hoarse Whisperer on the predictable stages of narcissistic Dump is cycling through. A few excerpts as I am not savvy on the Twitter embedding…
Nicole
@Amir Khalid:
Ah, another example of height bias. ;) See? IT’S EVERYWHERE!
And it’s an example of patriarchy. There is literally no reason for society to deem a man “better” if he’s taller, other than wanting to give the appearance of physical dominance. But we use height as an attack on men all the time. We denigrate them for being short, or shorter, than a rival. Which, much like women’s age, is something they have literally no control over. And when they try to exert some control, we mock them for wearing lifts or lying, just as we do women for getting Botox or a boob job.
The problem lies not within our (political) stars, but within ourselves, is what I’m saying.
geg6
@Nicole:
Yeah, except Chuck Taylors are the worst possible shoes to get this kind of publicity. Almost as terrible for your feet as heels are, based on the fact that they have absolutely no arch or ankle support. I wouldn’t wear them if you paid me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing her particularly. But those shoes suck.
schrodingers_cat
@Nicole: He thinks that the garbage bag with the long red tie ensemble makes him look slim.
Benw
Since white evangelicals have abandoned Jesus for a new god, I think we have to start calling them Evangelical Trumpians
Tazj
@khead: Yes, they will believe they are better than you because of abortion. They believe that being both a Christian, or a moral person and a Democrat are antithetical,
I honestly thought that somehow Trump losing wouldn’t be that disappointing to conservative Christians, after all I thought he was just a means to an end and that end was a conservative majority on the Supreme Court. I’ve read some conservatives who are ok with the result. They would have been fine with him being re-elected, they liked his policies and got the court they wanted but were tired of being apologists for him. I thought many conservative Christians would feel the same way.
I was wrong, at least about those in my family. They were still angry after the election. It makes me sad and scared. What else do they want? This is what happens when Christian churches and their pastors place outlawing abortions above everything and everyone else.
Kent
What moral supremacy? Evangelical Christianity was created in the 1845 when the Southern Baptists split with the north in support of slavery. They spent the first 20 years of their existence inventing religious justifications for slavery and the next 100 inventing religious justifications for white supremacy and segregation. When that ran it’s course they turned to the issue of abortion (which they previously supported) as a way to continue the racism in disguise.
They have always been the essence of evil from the start.
Elizabelle
@Doug R: Bookmarked that 2014 Politico article to read later. Thank you.
White supremacy, indeed.
Nancy
@dnfree: Why do brides wear white? So they match the rest of the appliances!
Elizabelle
@geg6: Thank you for saying that.
This place reeks lately with all the doom, and to what effect?
Get a grip, people. Courage.
zhena gogolia
@geg6:
Oh, please don’t go.
I think people are just scared. I’m hoping this fades as we get closer to Inauguration.
West of the Rockies
@Al Z.:
Oh, that was too delightful!
Steve in the ATL
@terraformer: every city in every red state is blue. Most people in Atlanta and other cities don’t want to rejoin the 19th century.
We’d have to use a post-WWII West Berlin model to make this work. Any of those folks still alive? I’m willing to sacrifice my lake house in Trump country to make this work. You’re welcome.
zhena gogolia
@Benw:
Great idea! I’m tired of Jesus being slandered like this.
Seanly
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
You managed to insult both Sideshow Bob and Bart Simpson..
Oh and regarding the Politico article from 2014 re: evangelicals real reasons for backing Republicans, Politico was about 30 years late. I don’t have links handy but plenty of folks explored the segregation angle in the 90’s if not 80’s. Another angle was the extreme anti-tax movement spearheaded in the shadows by L Ron Hubbard and the Scientologists.
different-church-lady
Just to let you know I’ve formally stopped freaking out about Trump finding a way to steal the presidency back and moved on to formally freaking out about another wave of COVID lockdowns.
Nicole
@geg6: I TOTALLY agree with you about the lack of support in those shoes. But I’ll take it as a visual over heels for kids learning what powerful women dress like.
Man, I miss my teenage feet. They could wear anything (as long as it was flat) with no pain. No more. ;)
OH! funny little Pennsylvania thing- I just finished reading the book my 10-year-old was assigned for school: Wringer, by Jerry Spinelli, about a small-town boy who doesn’t want to become a neck wringer in his town’s annual pigeon shoot. Having grown up in PA, I am very familiar with the concept of the pigeon shoot. I mentioned it to my OKC spouse, and he said he’d never heard of such a thing and decided we Keystoners were nuts. I… did not disagree with him.
jc
Don’t jump, Donnie! Don’t. Jump.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Tazj: Abortion is just the excuse of the moment. Not that long ago it was whether the earth is flat or Jesus worked on a Dinosaur Ranch. The whole point of Evangelicalism is to be assholier than thou.
Steve in the ATL
@different-church-lady: I’ve pied all your comments that are not in all caps. Can you amend this and re-post, please?
different-church-lady
There has been, but there’s never been one so good at the manipulation part that 72 million people would voluntarily put him in charge of it.
Lumpy
Besides opposing abortion, white evangelicals also oppose Sex Ed in our schools, and easy access to contraceptives, even though both are shown to reduce unwanted pregnancies and the subsequent abortions. There’s an anti-sex aspect to all of this, which makes their hypocrisy even more stark.
different-church-lady
@Steve in the ATL: NO.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Seanly: I am a cruel man, but do consider the metaphor; Bart is the lovable and eternally youthful provocateur and Side Show Bob is the self absorbed elitist who Bart has trolled into a perpetual rage. The main point is Trump isn’t the main character in the Right Wing pyscho drama, it only appears that way to us on the left because we can’t be bothered.
Hungry Joe
In my entire getting-longish life I’ve never met anyone as twisted and dysfunctional as Donald Trump. And he has been President of the United States for four years. I’ve been hammered so numb by his relentless blather and soul-crushing evil that sometimes I lose track of how profoundly weird this is.
Kent
It’s really more insidious than that. I lived in the Baptist heartland of Waco for 13 years. Abortion is used as a faux issue to justify continued racism. Yes, there are plenty of rubes who have been brainwashed into believing that abortion is the single seminal moral issue of our time. But that’s not what it is really about.
Abortion gives cover for lots of racist folks to support the racist party that has retrograde social policies. I knew a ton of Republican men in TX who I know for a fact were not particularly religious and who would pay for an abortion in a heartbeat for their girlfriend/daughter. They have basically learned and been coached to say that they support the most retrograde GOP candidates, NOT because they are racist or do racist dog whistles. But because they are pro-life. It’s kind of a moral argument ender. You can argue economic and social policy in this country. But you are supposed to defer to people’s religious beliefs, no matter how insecure. We just don’t question when someone says they are voting for Trump because he is pro-life.
Abortion is simply racism in disguise. The same southern Baptists like Falwell who were one moment defending segregation suddenly in the 70s flipped to abortion without changing a single other thing
Gun rights is another issue that essentially serves the same purpose. It is another excuse people use to vote for the racist party. Sure they love their guns. But people tend not to question the sincerity of 2nd Amendment “beliefs” so they just accept that as the main reason to vote for racists. Because they will defend your gun rights. It’s all part of the same larger racist ideology.
different-church-lady
@geg6: In all seriousness, the is a HUGE PILE of very bad things to deal with in our immediate future, and there’s no ignoring it. But for the first time in months I have a bit of hopefulness, because Biden’s victory means we have a chance to deal with it all. I’m still fretful and worried, but no longer outright despondent. And that little bit feels like a huge turnaround.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: You and geg are right about no support in the Chuck Taylors.
I wondered if Kamala uses inserts to make them more comfortable.
And — just say no to those stilettos. The sartorial equivalent of cigarette smoking for making women look elegant. The first leads to cancer and wrinkles. The second to terrible feet, and hobbled movement.
Stiletto heels remind me of the fake-ass Trump women, and models and actresses who are all about style (and then kick their shoes off and complain during interviews).
Nancy Pelosi wears them. Maybe to be taller?
Steve in the ATL
@dnfree:
Did he put “chattel”? It’s ok–this is a safe space.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@different-church-lady: I would think both Woodrow Wilson and Richard Nixon would both sneer at Trump since they both won a second term while governing as divisive, insecure douches.
Ksmiami
@khead: that’s why I’m hoping Covid reduces their numbers.
gene108
I really wish some media person would do a compare and contrast, with how Democratic voters and office holders reacted to the results of the 2000 and 2016 Presidential elections, and show how current Republicans are a bunch of whiny ass titty babies, who should eat a bag of unsalted rat dicks for their bullshit theories about voter fraud.
In the living memory of most modern journalists are two elections that were much closer. The Democrats, despite winning the popular vote, lost the EC because of a controversial SCOTUS ruling, in 2000, and all sorts of election fuckery in 2016.
Fuck them. Fuck their feelings.
geg6
@Nicole:
Personally, I couldn’t possibly care less about someone’s height. It’s not a bias I, personally, have. I’ve dated several men in my time that were shorter than me. Doesn’t bother me, but it does them. I only brought it up to show that he lies about absolutely everything. The man is probably average height but he has to lie that he is taller than average because he has to be the best (tallest!) at everything.
Frankensteinbeck
@Tazj:
The end was brutalizing the Other, and Trump delivered fantastically. With his re-election, they saw permanently grinding the Other beneath their heel, finally within reach. They are pissed, yes.
Miss Bianca
@Nicole: What, “Hubby” has gone by the wayside? News to me!
Quinerly
@Puddinhead: yep. I’m not worried.
Nicole
@Miss Bianca: OH MY GOD, YOU’RE RIGHT!
“Hubby.” How could I have forgotten? Mea culpa.
Probably because I refer to mine as “the old ball and chain.”
(KIDDING I DON’T REALLY)
Matt McIrvin
@Calouste: They see it as the competition. They’ve got a worldview, though they’ll never admit it, in which God and Satan are magic-making beings of roughly equal power, who will do the bidding of people who cast the right spells. And anything that doesn’t follow the rules of the God team is the Satan team.
TaMara (HFG)
@geg6: Come sit 6 feet from me. ?
mali muso
@Kent:
Totally agree. And I say that coming from a childhood brought up within that movement and with half of my family born and bred Southerners. It’s all about the white supremacist ideology. But they need a cover story that can help them justify it, ergo, the other side supports infanticide.
geg6
@Elizabelle:
I think it’s her age. Heels are what all proper women, especially professional women wear, according to a certain age group. My mom did the same until she retired at 70, even though she hated them. If my mom was alive today, she would be a couple years older than Nancy. And she also worked in a male dominated profession (at the time), a newspaper newsroom.
Sloane Ranger
@gene108: A few days ago CNN, (Erin Burnett on Outfront, I think but could be wrong), ran a compare and contrast showing gracious concession speeches by the losers of all previous elections from Bush I onwards. This was after some Trumpist had been on claiming that Hilary Clinton had never conceded to Trump. When they were corrected, they said well yes, she might have mouthed some words but she’s been making nasty comments about him ever since so she never really conceded.
debbie
@geg6:
If you see pictures of him back in the 1980s when he was married to Marla Maples, he wasn’t a whole lot taller than she was. I think he wears double- or triple-height lifts, based on the way he’s leaning.
kindness
What the Republican leadership is doing isn’t subtle. They know Trump lost but they really do think if they can keep things in the courts long enough they’ll still be tied up come the dates states have to pick their Electorial College electors and they really think that Republican dominated state legislatures will vote in Trump electors over the votes of the majority of their citizens. Yea…that is a conceptual possibility as far as the Constitution goes but not really a reality. I can see the Wisconsin Cavemen doing it because they really think they are safe doing it but I can’t see it happening across the country. And really, if any state legislation did do that, don’t you think there would be folks not with just torches and pitchforks coming for them but actual real guns? The notion that they even think they might be able to do such nonsense really brings home the fact that these people aren’t interested in representative Democracy. They want their Furher and they want him now.
patrick II
Yesterday on Fresh Air, the interviewee told Terri Gross that one of the things Trump was considering after leaving the presidency was a theme park — Trump World. I have been trying to imagine the rides. Snatch the baby from the mother’s arms. Perhaps a hollerin’ contest at people wearing masks. Kick the golf ball closer to the hole. Whatever, I’m sure it would be loads of fun.
different-church-lady
@Frankensteinbeck:
I believe it would be more accurate to say they love his amorality.
And I think we can now estimate the number who are ashamed by that to be about 4 to 5 percent: the percentage who won’t admit it to pollsters.
Nicole
@geg6: Absolutely, and Trump buys into every bit of toxic masculinity, including height being a contest (and, for that matter, as you said, his intense need to win at everything is classic toxic masculinity). I just found it interesting how fast people were to bring up that Trump lies and that maybe Biden is taller.
I have a friend, who is fat, who posted on FB how cut up he was by Anderson Cooper referring to Trump as an “obese turtle on his back” because there was no reason to add in “obese” and it was interesting how many of this guy’s friends leaped in to defend what Cooper said. When it would have been so easy to say, “Yeah, that was cruel and unnecessary of him.” Which it was; “turtle on his back, flailing in the sun” is just as funny. More so, actually.
NotMax
@Nicole
Hubby has been a part of the language for ages.
Just Chuck
@Frankensteinbeck:
He has even less chance of that than a recount suddenly putting him over the top. Even if he found one or two sympathetic high-ranking generals in his inner circle, the ones under him wouldn’t even consider such blatantly illegal orders. Any coup that did take place would be one that removed him.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kent:
There is a direct racist element to the abortion and gun rights issues as well. Evangelicals believe, and are not all that shy about saying out loud, that blacks are irresponsible breeders and… well, it gets too ugly for me to be comfortable repeating, but you see where abortion comes in. Similarly, for the 2nd amendment voters ‘defend against tyranny’ and ‘home defense’ both have ‘from blacks’ attached.
different-church-lady
@Nicole: I’m not sure how you’d be able to tell a turtle was obese anyway.
Sure Lurkalot
@debbie:
Pretty sure Bill-O and Glennbeckistan like to get paid.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@debbie: Pictures of his feet have shown that his heels are not really in the shoes, but resting about even with the top edge.
That explains his odd forward-leaning stance.
rikyrah
STOP IT!
you know it.
I KNOW IT.
HE WAS ABSOLUTELY PHUCKING SERIOUS.
Elizabelle
@geg6: Heels, yes. I used to wear them, as well.
But stilettos? That was not always the case. It’s sliding backwards.
Kent
There were massive street protests during Bush’s inauguration. And the Woman’s March was days after Trump’s inauguration. People did not take those lying down. And conservatives were properly “scandalized” by the disrespect.
But I don’t recall many Democratic office holders questioning the legitimacy of either of those two presidents. I’m sure some did, but not a majority.
I don’t give a shit of the MAGA faithful want to protest and shit. That’s their right. But actual office holders have an obligation to defend the legitimacy of our elections. If elections are illegitimate then they are illegitimate too and have no business holding their positions either.
Just Chuck
@Ian:
I’ve never heard of a Satanist bombing an abortion clinic or shooting up a synagogue.
NotMax
@patrick II
Whack-a-Dem?
:)
HalfAssedHomesteader
I truly, truly hope there is some kind of intervention so that Barron doesn’t perpetuate the cycle in the Trump family. Perhaps entering adolescence during this time will give him the needed boost to separate himself from them. Maybe he’ll rebel and spend time with aunt Mary.
TheWesson
@different-church-lady: You can tell a turtle is obese if it is unable to retract its head and legs into its shell.
Steve in the ATL
@Nicole: as I understand it (FWthat’sW), Cooper said “obese” not to denigrate fat people but to mock trump for being obese and lying, frequently and obviously, about his weight.
It’s one of many problems with republican hypocrisy: we don’t care that you’re [x], we care that you are [x] and attack and actively work to harm people who are [x].
See, for example, republicans who are gay, female, poor, middle class, and/or non-white.
Kent
Oh, of course. That’s my point. Sometimes they just say the quiet parts out loud. But both abortion and guns mostly just serve as proxy issues for race now that the majority of Republicans (at least pre-Trump) knew that overt racism is something you try not to show too much of in polite society. So you find other issues as proxies. And if they are “moral” issues, all the better because we don’t question people’s “moral” stands.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Nicole: Never heard of a pigeon shoot.
I’ve been living in PA 19 years and I’ll probably never really absorb all the local culture.
I’ve never eaten scrapple for instance. And have no plans to.
Baud
@Kent:
Hilary certainly accepted the result with dignity and respect for the country. But no way the media will make that comparison.
Nicole
@Elizabelle:
@geg6:
I think so, too, habits are hard to break. While I think one of the great gifts Millennials gave to women was deciding nylons were stupid, I fully admit, even from my feminist soapbox, that I think legs look nice in them, even as I admit they are the most uncomfortable torture ever invented next to stiletto heels and the thought of all the times I ran to a restaurant bathroom with my emergency bottle of clear nail polish to stop a run still gives me twitches. It’s hard to escape how we grow up.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Nancy Pelosi still wears nylons with those heels, too.
Amir Khalid
@Nicole:
Chuck Taylors absolutely need to be worn with arch-support insoles.
Just Chuck
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: So basically, Trump Pumps aka Fuck Everyone Else Pumps.
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Remember Tom Ford? He was a fashion designer for some pretty good labels who then went into directing (“A Single Man”). He was interviewed on Fresh Air, and at the end, Terry Gross snuck in a couple of fashion questions, one of them being about women’s shoes. He said he couldn’t believe how cruel they had become and how cruel shoe designers (mostly men) were to their female customers.
Kent
Well, of course. So did every other president and presidential candidate in the 250 year history of the United State. Hillary was a normal dignified candidate like Romney, McCain, Kerry, Gore, etc. Trump is the abomination.
Nicole
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I think the pigeon shoots have mostly gone by the wayside; I remember there was always a protest at the one closest to me. This book came out in 1997.
Where I was, there was the clay pigeon shoot and then the live one (needless to say, that was the one that drew the protests). I had friends who competed in the clay one; I can’t remember if they did the live one, too.
While I do not think your life will be any the poorer for never trying scrapple, I do think you can make a pretty good guess on where in PA someone is from by what they prefer as a condiment on their scrapple. I grew up with horseradish and apple butter as the only proffered toppings in the house.
Kent
I don’t know about pigeon shooting, but in TX, dove hunting is huge. Absolutely huge. And the doves they shoot are basically pigeons.
Baud
@Kent:
Right, but Hillary had legitimate reasons to complain given Russia and Trump, although I suppose many of the details weren’t known until later.
debbie
@Nicole:
AND having to wear pantyhose in the summer! ? Hanes made summer-weight pantyhose which were much thinner (and more easily destroyed), but they were still too stifling.
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
I think that was the must-pretend-Republicans-are-respectable way of saying that Trump knows none of these plans will work. He’s going through the motions because he is pathologically unable to admit he lost. It’s the same thing he would be doing if he thought he had a chance, but with more golf and firing traitors.
Ken
It’s remarkable how some people can say “my wife” in a way that sends the same message.
I forget the writer, but someone pointed out once that English is very short of pronouns. The relationships in “my body”, “my shoes”, “my parents”, “my wife”, and “my country” are all distinct but we’ve only got the one possessive.
rikyrah
@Kay:
they have shown themselves to be completely phony. and, that is going to stick. they have no moral highground, of any kind.
NotMax
@Ceci n est pas mon nym
Scrapple be yummy. A glowing gemstone in the breakfast diadem.
Nicole
@Amir Khalid: Yeah. I do think they’re cute shoes, but I can’t do without some support. I run in a neutral sneaker (4mm lift, instead of the usual 8 to 12), but there’s plenty of support.
Steve in the ATL
@Nicole: I’ve shot a lot of clay pigeons in my time. Not sure how to wring their necks….
Nicole
@NotMax: But what do you eat your scrapple with?
HalfAssedHomesteader
@MattF: Hmm, are there any psychopharms that can induce depression — as a matter of national security?
Baud
@Ken:
That’s not limited to English by any means.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: You think Wilt or Hondo were wearing arch-support insoles here?
scav
If Nancy P can be trusted to herd the house, she can be trusted to choose her own footwear, but maybe that’s just me being insufficiently strict with total brand management.
Steve in the ATL
@Nicole: he eats with pineapple. Just pie filter him now and never look back!
Nicole
@Steve in the ATL: It’s a heavy book, for sure, but I liked it. And probably why toxic masculinity is on my mind today, as it’s a very strong theme in the book (props to his school for assigning it just as the kids are starting to hit adolescence). That said, my kid is an animal lover, through and through, so he’s not digging it yet (just wait until the pigeon shows up at the protagonist’s window, though… ;) ).
NotMax
@Nicole
Eggs, over easy.
Gin & Tonic
@Nicole: Isn’t a fork customary?
Nicole
@Steve in the ATL: PINEAPPLE? Blasphemy!
A Philly-suburbs coworker and I once almost came to blows over ketchup on scrapple.
Nicole
@NotMax: Oh… unusual… but I think my grandfather, the most loyal of scrapple-lovers in our household, would have given it a try.
Nicole
@Gin & Tonic: If the scrapple has been toasted up to the right level of crispy, it is possible to spread that horseradish and apple butter on top and eat it like a large, greasy Triscuit.
Scrapple was a must-pass test for my now-husband, the first time he visited the family. He did well; I was proud of him.
Gin & Tonic
@Nicole: Obligatory.
Tazj
@Frankensteinbeck: Yes, I do think you are right. They see themselves as oppressed and Donald Trump is their champion.
And just to clarify, when I said I was sad and scared that was mainly a reference to the relationships in my family, and not to the country as a whole. It’s hard for me to accept they still wanted that hateful person in charge when I expected quiet resignation from them.
Jeffro
Whew – a network with Beck, O’Reilly, AND trumpov? Who could possibly overcome a lineup like that? (eyeroll)
Amir Khalid
@Gin & Tonic:
I hope they were.
mad citizen
@Doug R: The one number I learned here one day that I’ve remembered is that Hillary had ~66 million votes; Trump ~63 million; but 109 million eligible voters did not vote at all.
If Biden is up on Hillary around 12 million, and trump up 9 million (not sure about 3rd parties this time; then are the eligible nonvoters down to around 88 million or so in 2020? Still more than the winner, which is sad.
joel hanes
@Elizabelle:
Nancy Pelosi wears them. Maybe to be taller?
I think the world of Pelosi, but in many things she faithfully observes the customs of a former world. Heels were still *required* when she was already a mature woman striding the halls of power.
artem1s
@Doug R:
One of the reasons we can’t get reproductive rights codified into law is the way forced birthers have disseminated false information about Roe and other efforts to secure reproductive rights as a eugenics and genocide conspiracy. That first wave feminists were all eugenics freaks. You wouldn’t believe how many conservative black men I’ve had tell me that Planned Parenthood is part of a secret plan by white feminists to commit genocide of AA with forced sterilization and abortions. Another example of projection by RWNJ who feared women gaining physical autonomy would lead to mixed race marriages and mixed race children. The same people who are in favor of criminalizing abortion will often tell you they believe anyone accepting welfare should be forcibly sterilized. It all goes back to racism and misogyny in one way or another. White men should get to own women and blacks because they can’t take care of or make decisions for themselves.
Nicole
@Gin & Tonic:
You get ALL the heart emojis for that one. :)
In fact, I’m currently cutting together a video of my son’s school’s pinewood derby (done virtually this year) and I was looking for some cool, really-I’m-not-old EDM to put underneath the fast-forward of the science teacher constructing the cars, but I think I’m going to use this instead. Seriously. Thank you.
NotMax
@Nicole
Autumnal cocktail: Apple Butter Old-Fashioned.
Josie
@mali muso:
This actually sounds pretty good to me. I hope the Hoarse Whisperer is correct. Having him concentrate on his vaunted take-down of Fox News and his ill-fated run in 2024 gives us some room to move in and get our stuff done.
Kent
@artem1s: Southern Baptists were officially pro-choice in the early 1970s. These are the texts of their 1971 and 1974 resolutions on abortion:
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@mad citizen: The numbers that keep echoing in my head are that something like 160 million people voted in this election, but 101 million of them were early! If that is a harbinger of the future then it’s not about Election Day any more.
Nicole
@NotMax: Oh my God, this is why I have spent so many years on this blog. Music! Cocktail recipes!
That looks amazing. And the hubby ball-and-chain better half’s pandemic hobby is trying out new cocktails so I bet he’ll make this one if I ask him. I’m going to need it after Saturday; the kid’s annual school festival is being done online and I’m one of the ringleaders. It’s been a tech learning curve for sure and I’m going to want a drink when it’s all over.
jc
@Kay: But the conservative christian community has gotten used to getting tax-free status, getting a free ride for their faith, getting away with pushing bogus “Intelligent Design” theories, getting a pass on their bigotry, playing politics with their faith, blurring the line between church and state, etc.
Baud
@Kent:
Not to discount the connection between abortion opposition and race, but the right wingers took over the Southern Baptists after that, in the late 1970s. It’s not as if the same people were in charge and just changed their minds.
Professor Bigfoot
They call themselves “evangelicals” because their ideology lives in and is passed down through their churches; but their Christianity extends only as far as defending the God-ordained natural order of society: God over man, man over woman, white over black and brown, etc. etc.
That is, they’re simply neo-Confederates, unwilling to acknowledge the core of their “faith.”
geg6
@Nicole:
Hell, you can tell where someone is from in PA if they even know what it is, let alone eat scrapple. It is definitely NOT a thing beyond the Allegheny Mountains. I never even heard of it until I was an adult and I was born and raised and have always lived in PA.
Frank Wilhoit
@debbie: The very severe curvature of Trump’s upper spine takes at least an inch and a half off what his height would otherwise be. This is also how you can tell the difference between him and his stunt double, who is shockingly like in the face but whose back is straight.
Dmbeaster
@schrodingers_cat: The doom seems to flow from exhaustion about the ugly and bruising nature of political fights with Republicans. Its a normal response based on a preference for more civility with the opposition. Its a weakness of Democrats in general, but I can understand why people despair about the psychic bloodshed necessary to fight Republicans.
A footnote to this is that the most biting ads against Trump were from Republicans at the Lincoln Project.
If you care about our shared principals, you must think in terms of attacking Republicans. It works. Despairing about that is giving up. They attack us non-stop – the lack of a counterattack (or our own attacks) is read as weakness, or even worse, as an indirect admission of the truth of Republican attacks.
My profession makes it easy to be comfortable with this, and I understand the discomfort with this (having had to counsel countless clients on how to withstand cross-examination). But Democrats do better with an attacking attitude and message.
bluefoot
@rikyrah: I read a great line yesterday, “White people will believe anything, except the truth.” I admit I laughed out loud. People tell themselves all manner of lies so they don’t have to look at reality.
wrt to Trump, of course he wants to stay President – he’s a narcissist and wants and needs the attention of the entire fucking planet to feed that gaping hole where his soul should be. Plus as President he can do whatever he wants and maximize how many people he can hurt. There’s no downside for him to being President because he truly does not care about anything outside himself. A normal person would at least try to pretend to do the job, but he’s not burdened with any sort of conscience; he’s pure id.
NotMax
@Professor Bigfoot
Prefer my evans less gelical and more practical.
;)
Kent
The Southern Baptists were never remotely liberal in any way. What happened is that the more educated, modern, and sophisticated but still very right wing Baptists were replaced by more fundamentalist and biblical literalist types. So it was kind of racist country club Baptist leaders being replaced by mouth-breathing fundamentalist racist types who were better at stirring up shit with the rubes.
William F. Buckley being swapped out for Sean Hannity or Tucker Carlson if you will.
Jeffro
In 2020, we call this…”progress” =)
Hang in there!
Baud
@Kent:
So a precursor to what’s happening to the GOP.
Jeffro
@patrick II: the menu would be pretty simple…
Kay
@jc:
They’re basically saying they exchanged moral authority for real authority- state power. That’s fine but I disagree with their belief that they get to keep both. They made a bargain, all right. They exchanged something for something else. Their notion that they keep all the Trump goodies without also getting Trumpism is delusional. Ask Melania or the Trump kids how that works out. Right now they’re hunkered down in Bunker White House tending to a crazy person. They pay dearly in the bargain they made, and the Christian Right will too.
Why do so many conservatives think they get something for nothing? Is it poor parenting?
mad citizen
@geg6: Height: Wiki lists Biden at 6 feet; Obama 6’1” and trump at 6’3”. But as all things trump it that seems off. In googling pictures of Obama and trump Jan 20 2016 they seem pretty much the same height, maybe trump a tad taller but if you account for trump’s hair, maybe not. Then we know about trump’s lifts.
Found a pic of Obama and Biden side by side and Biden seems about 2 inches shorter than Obama, so perhaps Biden is around 5’11’ to 6’0”.
Jeffro
I think scrapple is the state food of Delaware (not kidding)
It really should be Thrasher’s fries or a ‘Bobbie’ from Capriotti’s, but I think it’s scrapple.
Kent
@Baud: Yep. In my mind, their only demographic hope long-term is to make MAJOR inroads with Hispanic Americans. The longer they cultivate the racist crazies, the longer we postpone that pivot. They are a minority party held in place by gerrymandering and anti-democratic institutions from the electoral college to campaign finance law.
Jeffro
@Gin & Tonic: win
jc
@hells littlest angel: I’d like to learn more about how Trump leveraged? bribed? Falwell Jr. — Donnie would agree to not make the dirty photos public in exchange for Jerry Jrs. support, which was highly beneficial to Donnie’s presidential aspirations.
Jager
@schrodingers_cat: I sold suits when I was a college boy, I could give you a half-hour on how our tailors stood on their heads to make a fat guy look slim. Trump’s suits have every slimming trick possible and none of them work.
Jeffro
perfect for Twitter, basically
catclub
@Doug R: True, but it is no longer 27% either. It looks a lot like 45%
my guess is slightly less, because even with the record turnout, it was still
less than 80% of potential voters, and crazy 45% is slightly MORE likely to vote. (there are fewer of them not voting)
Aleta
He’s stalling. Since he thinks in imaginary headlines in his name, he needs to avoid the banner TRUMP GIVES UP. (He’s already circumvented Trump Loses Election.) Maybe he’s (working his allegiance and blackmail channels) waiting to be bailed out — a show offer from a Japanese broadcaster or the New King of the Limbaugh Empire, etc. A dominating headline that blasts his success. Another Noble Prize at the same time would be good.
The main thing is, his only skill is “hold on until someone bails me out.” Who wants him? And who is going after him for his debts.
Kay
I’m not religious but I am amused at the extent to which these people have devalued “honesty” as a value.
They seem to really believe that it doesn’t matter at all if people LIE all the time! I think it does! Putting aside the Ten Commandants which are supposed to give them at least some pause about LYING all the time, “credibility” is not some endless line of credit they can borrow from forever. Have they noticed that 80% of people don’t believe their lies about the election? What’s the long term plan here? Just tell bigger and bigger lies until that reaches 1%? It’s all withdrawals. There are no deposits.
Nicole
@geg6: That’s a good point about scrapple being very geographically specific. I always thought of scrapple as a Pennsylvania Dutch food, as the PA Dutch seem to be opposed to wasting anything and so OF COURSE they would find use for the parts of a pig one doesn’t usually eat. And all that flavorless pudding. ;)
(I have lots of PA Dutch ancestors. Ask me about getting rid of a wart by rubbing a potato on it on Good Friday and burying the potato! My dad swore to the end of his life that it worked.)
Jager
@Lumpy: A New Orleans guy I know told me when he was a kid the easiest place to get laid was a Southern Baptist picnic.
Uncle Cosmo
Um, the words you seem to be searching for are secession and secede.
(This is far from the first time you’ve mangled the English language. How old were you when you started learning it? How many years of it did you take in school?)
David Evans
@Ken: It could be the demon Screwtape talking in C. S. Lewis’s The Screwtape Letters: “We teach them not to notice the different senses of the possessive pronoun – the finely graded differences that run from “my boots” through “my dog,” “my servant,” “my wife,” “my father,” “my master,” and “my country,” to “my God.”” I think the same idea is stated in Larry Niven’s story “Grammar Lesson” but I can’t find my copy or a link for that.
catclub
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: and my guess is that maybe 70 M are too young to vote. So that leaves another 80M who were old enough to vote and did not. (160 +70 + 80 = 310M?? still 20 M short of 330M)
so maybe 160M + 80M too young + 90M not voting ??
Gravenstone
@Kattails: One of the mouth breathers out near where I live has a Trump installation similar to your proposal. Trump flag, ringed with smaller American flags (way to honor the flag, jackass), ringed with solar flood lights, so it is visible at night. Pathetic.
hueyplong
@Gravenstone: Some of us would be interested to know when the clown takes down the Trump shrine.
Uncle Cosmo
That’s pithy & appropriate in many instances (Falwell fils comes to mind).
I think of them as evilangelicals or fundanazis, to distinguish them from the (very) few evangelicals I know who by all appearances are decent, upright (if possibly philosophically misguided) folks.
Kay
The “our democratic process” is nice but over-inclusive. The fact is the Republican Party and the Trump Administration do not believe this which is why they are bringing lawsuits to throw out votes and overturn an election.
That they won’t succeed doesn’t change that. All that means is we beat them back. We may not be able to next time.
Josie
@Uncle Cosmo:
He/she may not have used the correct word, but his point is a good one. Southern states are not the only ones who harbor racists/evangelicals. The division in many other states is between rural and urban areas. No state (not even a blue one) has enough of a lock on moral voters so that they can look down their noses at other states. Secession is not a solution for either side. We have to figure out a way to live together.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kay:
Let’s say that on Jan 21st evangelicals stop mentioning Trump’s name ever again. What happens?
Some people who didn’t like them already now know they’re not arguing in good faith. We were already enemies, so they don’t care. All Republicans immediately accept the non-topic. The media only push the point in the occasional Cletus Safari explaining that really, evangelicals had to do it because they’re so sincere about murdered babies. The politically detached find this a plausible explanation. Trump probably yells some stuff, but the evangelicals are who would have been listening anyway, so they don’t care.
The only way they pay for embracing Trump is if they’ve pissed off a whole lot of liberals who are more active voters from now on. That is possible. But otherwise, they can shuck him and go back to their holier-than-thou act and never have to look back.
EDIT – Okay, no, there is one thing. They accelerate the process that was already going on where their children abandon their disgusting, bigoted religion. But I don’t think that’s what you were talking about.
catclub
They are basically saying “That guy who said: ‘My Kingdom is not of this world?’ He was a loser. We want power here and now.”
debbie
@Kay:
We need a scoreboard on the main page. Where are we now, 0–12?
Doc Sardonic
@Nicole: Glad that worked out….If it was me the deal would have been broken. There is not enough alcohol, hot sauce, ketchup or any other condiment that could be added to the equation to get me to eat that shit, and I have been known to eat chitlins.
PJ
@Jeffro: Peach pie is apparently the official state food of Delaware. (Casapulla’s is better than Capriotti’s, BTW).
mali muso
That’s actually a thing. We call ourselves Exvangelicals and it’s a quickly growing number. The hard part of course is that this religion/social system thrives on in-group and herd mentality, so it’s very hard to break away even once you mentally make the shift. For a lot of exvie’s it means complete abandonment of their family and social circle. It can be very difficult to start the process of rebuilding community after that. Worth it, though!
Kent
@debbie: They did win one trivial lawsuit about PA extending the deadline for ballots to be “cured” by fixing signatures and such. The SOS had extended it from 11/8 to 11/11 or some such. They rolled that back. A trivial number of ballots were affected.
Omnes Omnibus
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Right, MI, MN, and WI voted for whom? Or do you define Upper Midwest differently?
SteverinoCT
@Nicole:
The image generally making the rounds is a crop. The full image has Harris in boots ahead and in Chucks behind.
As for Chucks themselves, I remember the Chucks II, which didn’t make it, but now there are the Chuck 70s, with the same classic look but more cushioning and arch support. Sez the ads.
Just One More Canuck
@geg6: It’s mostly just one gloomy Gus, constantly looking to be comforted
Omnes Omnibus
@Nicole: Hubby.
WaterGirl
@Kay: So many lawsuits… is this the one where they set aside all the mail-in ballots that arrived after midnight on Nov 3? And that lawsuit didn’t work? So all those ballots WILL count?
Death Panel Truck
@dmsilev: He’s expecting Army Detachment Steiner to come to his rescue.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: Why not? This place has become grueling to read. Frankensteinbeck has the patience of a saint. Some of the rest of us who don’t doom everywhere are not so gifted. I basically quit even trying to talk role off the ledge a while ago. I know that everyone reacts differently to adversity and fear many people find solace in venting about their fears. Fine. I am not supposed criticize their coping mechanism. Fine. Offering reassurances doesn’t because people don’t really want that. Fine. What the fuck benefit do we get from being around and doom scrolling? It doesn’t help us. Venting fears doesn’t help us. We aren’t really afraid; we are determined and and angry. If some people need this space, then other may need to be around less.
dnfree
@Nicole: It might seem silly, but I see DH, apparently meaning “Dear Husband”, in advice columns and online posts and that seems a little smarmy to me. Is it sincere or sarcastic?
cwmoss
@Steve in the ATL: the comment you were replying to should get partial credit for COVID.
The Lodger
@Nancy: So avocado and harvest gold are reserved for the bridesmaids?
The Lodger
@Steve in the ATL: Who gets the airports though? I don’t want people without airports to be pelted with cargo.
catclub
it is nicer than ‘the oaf on the sofa’. and quicker.
JAFD
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Scrapple is actually pretty good
https://whyy.us3.list-manage.com/track/click?u=e0969e98750704bb7ebe29d5c&id=7ced36209f&e=4f6d08a233
for cooking directions
Meself, I like it with apple butter.
JAFD
I’m 6’1″ (will get that double-checked at next doctors’ appointment). Having shaken hands with President-Elect Biden, back in ’88, I would put his height at about 5’10”
My parents moved, upon retirement, to resort area. One attraction there, about three decades ago, was ‘Great American Outlet Mall’, and once visited there with Father. Had then a ‘cowboy boot outlet’, so went in on lark, asked if they had anything in my (really odd) size. They actually did. Tried it on, fit pretty well, walked around, felt weird being 3″ taller, looking down at Father. Might have gotten them if they hadn’t been a combination of maroon, pink and lavender leathers…
trnc
I do not believe, nor have I ever believed, that Reed, Falwell, etc are anything but lowlife grifters.
ballerat
@terraformer: Michelle Obama famously said that being President doesn’t change who you are, it reveals who you are.
This is as true of the occupant of the Presidency as it is now true of white evangelicals. Trump being President revealed who they are.
In fact for this election this has been true of the American people.
Nearly half of Americans have been revealed to be at their core either foolish, nasty, cruel and racist people, or so transactional or indifferent they are indistinguishable from such people.
ballerat
@mali muso: So now they’ve failed TWO critical moral tests of the times. And on the same subject.
Confirmed: They are who they’ve shown themselves to be.
ballerat
@Nicole: Hubby.
But I agree with you, the English language needs neutral gender terms. Which is why I’m OK with da yoots using “their” as a gender neutral pronoun, even when used for the singular.
The kids have decided if the language doesn’t provide “proper” neutral gender terms, then fuckem. The kids are indeed all right.
ballerat
@Kay: They’ve shown the entire world their ass, and everyone now knows their ass smells like rancid white racist god-bothering hypocrite ass. They’re the only ones on the planet who don’t know.
ballerat
@Kent: Thanks for this. Been wanting to point out where the biggest chunk of white evangelicals came from, as it explains who they are and what we are dealing with.
Bigots. Always have been. Always will be. Our task is to find ways to expose them. Like unmasking the lizard people in human skins. When we see them as they are they lose their influence.
No One You Know
@Ian: Are you talking about Wiccans? Satanism was a vast joke by Anton LaVey. For all the reasons one starts a new religion.
Wiccan have never bombed or shot anyone for their faith either, so far as I know.
Toxic
@Nicole: Nobody says hubbie? Wow, what color is the sky in your world?