Last night I had a last minute tweet-spree that I think is worth sharing (although now that I am editing this I see that Tamara already did I should really read this blog before I write anything). I’m pretty sure I have said this before here, I know I have said it elsewhere and I have definitely had this conversation with friends and my parents, but I want to put it here so it is permanent.
Beyond all the horrible things Trump has said, and more importantly, done, what has really bothered me the most about Trump is the meanness and ugliness just for the sake of it. The man is a shallow, empty, sucking hole of nothingness, completely devoid of joy and laughter and happiness. Again, it’s not just the policies.
I look at him and see just an empty, shallow, joyless man. I don’t recall ever seeing him laugh, or laugh at himself. The only time he sort of smiles is when he is cutting someone down or hurting someone. And then it is a slight smirk while searching the crowd for approval.
He doesn’t appreciate anything outside of how he views it making him look, and even then, he doesn’t actually care how he looks, he cares how people think about he looks. Nothing has value to the man other than that which he perceives immediately makes him better in the eyes of others.
He doesn’t like to read and couldn’t name a book if you asked him, he doesn’t like music (he couldn’t make a playlist like Obama if you gave him a million years), he doesn’t care about art other than it’s monetary value, or poetry, or fine dining. The man eats well done steak with ketchup fer fuck’s sake.
The only way he measured things is by how he perceived it made other people envy or look up to him.
“I’ll hold up a bible because other people like it and it is important to them and I want them to like me.”
He has no appreciation for nature, or ironically, architecture. He could never look at a peaceful meadow without thinking “Let’s raze this and put in a golf course and slap my name all over it.” His buildings are all garish phallic symbols adorned with his name. He has no concept of the use of space or color, everything is gold or the most expensive marble or wood not because it works or flows or has utility, but because it is the most expensive material and that is what rich people do other people will respect him more because look at all the rich things he does. He’s gaudy, and garish, and tacky.
And he absolutely does not care about other people. He has no friends. He has no sense of loyalty, honor, or truth- everything is temporary, and it rests solely on how he perceives something reflects on him at that very moment. As soon as you have nothing to offer him, you are gone. But he will quickly embrace you as soon as you think you have something to offer him, forgetting how he has treated you in the past.
Same with women, who does not view as human beings, but as objects to be used to make him look better. He doesn’t love beautiful women for their beauty or their wit or charm or talents, he loves the idea of other people seeing him with beautiful women. And since he can not recognize actual beauty, that is why all the women around him look the same- bottle blonde with fake breasts, because that is what he thinks EVERYONE else thinks is beauty.
I mean, can you honestly imagine him ever just wanting to go to a friend’s house to sit on the couch and chat, and play with their dog, and have coffee, and talk about things? Or remembering something little his wife had wanted and mentioned, and picking it up while seeing it on his travels, and spiriting it away in his luggage and taking it home and hiding it and wrapping it and just being excited to give it to her? Just the little human things that make life worth living. He feels and appreciates none of it. It’s all a crude dick measuring contest, and the only way to get ahead is to cut other’s down.
It’s why he is such a bad negotiator. He’s incapable of understanding win/win. Someone can only get ahead when someone else loses. It’s why he and the GOP never figured out that the way to save the economy was to handle covid. They couldn’t fathom that one didn’t have to be at the expense of the other.
Everything about him is hollow, vulgar, and contemptible. If he were not doing so many horrible things to people, he would be pitiable.
Contrast that with this guy:
I am under no illusion that the next four years will be a progressive panacea, but just having that sociopath Trump and his enablers and sycophants will make EVERYTHING immeasurably better. Even when Biden does something that I disagree with, at least I can feel safe knowing that some thought was put into it, and it wasn’t just done to spite someone or to make Joe look “good.”
And that’s a fucking start.
NotoriousJRT
Cole, I love your humanity.
Bex
From the Lincoln Project: https://youtu.be/gMzjA6asUDg
Royston Vasey
Wise words, Cole.
I will be sharing this thread with my friends. Just sums up the ex-president so well.
RV in NZ
geg6
AMEN! ??????????
Brachiator
And yet, Trump also presented himself as the superior white man, always boasting about his brains and genes. And he had his Ahab-like obsession with Obama, and his sick need to undo Obama’s accomplishments.
In every way Trump was a pathetic loser, nothing but grift and pretense.
OzarkHillbilly
@geg6: Took the word right out of my mouth.
Amen.
Nobody in particular
“The older I get the more I admire and crave competence, just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology.”
― H.L. Mencken
John, you may be missing a key word last graf, 2nd line.
Gone or out? But I could think of other options.
JoyceH
Biden is ten years older than me. Last night as he trotted up to the podium, I said out loud, “Okay, now you’re just showing off.”
Cheryl Rofer
TIL that @ChampBiden has a Twitter account.
Yarrow
I really love Uncle Joe with his aviators and ice cream. He’s just a real person. He’s got a real family with stuff that happens in families – love, loss, kids, dogs, jokes, tears, hugs. He’s goofy, funny, loyal and kind. He’s exactly what we need right now.
Galahad Threepwood
I agree with all of this, and I am extremely happy that Biden won and got this monster out of the White House, but in the cold light of day after yesterday’s celebrations I can’t help thinking about 47%. That’s the percentage of Americans who voted for Trump this time around. Somewhere north of 70 million people. They all saw the same person we did—God knows Trump did nothing to hide his faults—and they voted for him anyway.
I keep hearing about how kind and decent this country is. There was a Jon Chait piece yesterday talking about how the American people were better than Trump and got rid of him the first chance they got. When I read it I was convinced at first, then I thought, 47% of Americans were fine with this. After 4 years of horror and a concentrated dose of it this year, they were still willing to cast a vote for a sociopath.
I’m not trying to bring anyone down—I’m still elated that Biden, a good and honorable man, will be our next President. But what does it say about us that after 4 years of awful behavior, only a bare majority of voters were willing to say enough? What happens in 2024 if they run someone more competent, or if, God forbid, Trump runs again? I feel like we dodged a bullet this time, but the gun’s still loaded and pointed at us.
trollhattan
?
Baud
I think the question is, is Joe too normal? #ChuckToddPitchBot
Oklahomo
All the photos of his apartment in Trump tower are nothing but golden blandness. Everything is gold and there is nothing to relieve the eye. I’d have to spray paint graffiti on the walls to keep my sanity.
Major Major Major Major
Who’s down for a constitutional amendment that presidents must have a well-cared-for pet in order to be eligible?
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
So does it still look like we’ll hang on to AZ? It’s getting closer. I’d rather Biden win it but if it goes to Trump, the infighting between Trump and Fox because they called it early for Biden and upset his whole election night strategy would be epic.
Omnes Omnibus
@Galahad Threepwood: Humans are imperfect as individuals and as groups. It is something we have to live with.
MattF
Trump’s behavioral repertoire is a hellscape– dishonesty, cruelty, bullshit, racism– and then call in the lawyers. There’s an argument that this is what attracts the core 30% of his followers. The rest are single-issue ‘conservatives’, guns, abortion, Qsomething, FREEDUM. Ugly, but there seem to be a few more of us than there are of them.
donnah
John, this is my favorite thing you’ve ever written. It rings true and it pins down what so many of us hate about Donald Trump: he has no redeeming value or attributes. He’s a terrible person through and through and you nailed it.
Thanks. I’ll be sharing this post.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I think it said it all that Trump was upset during his ingratiation.
According to Herbert Hoover biographer Hoover was so obsessed with his image he only ate steak for dinner. And there is Trump who is nothing but image eating cheese burgers. Trump can’t even be a poser right.
Alison Rose
Completely agree, and I cannot trust a person who doesn’t like animals OR books OR music OR art or fucking anything at all except money and McDonald’s.
Also OT but Alex Trebek passed away :(
Geoboy
Thank you John.
Nobody in particular
@Brachiator:
He can name any book with his name on it, although written by someone with a larger vocabulary, who can actually write. And the Bible, and it should burst into flames, but it too, is just a book. I recall reading in some reputable source, perhaps Vanity Fair, that he did have a book of Hitler’s speeches. Not Mein Kampf, but his speeches.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m less worried about a Hawley or Cotton because they don’t have Trump’s fuck-you charisma (and yes, it is charisma). I think a lot of Trump’s appeal is Trump-specific.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: As dumb as the suggested requirements that the someone have served a full term in Congress or as a Governor. But, at least, I presume this one is tongue in cheek.
Soprano2
I loved this whole post, it puts words to something I’ve felt but not been able to articulate. Thanks for it. Thanks for this blog, it’s helped keep me sane when I felt I was going crazy.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nominated for the rotating tag.
featheredsprite
@Galahad Threepwood: Nearly half of the US voters are okay with authoritarianism, with the start of fascism, with hatred, and with nihilism. wtf?
Suzanne
John, you are absolutely right. He has shown none of the normal human behaviors for even a moment. He’s like those people we all know socially or in our business lives for whom everything is a fucking contest. Everything. Even ordering dinner is a flex. Those people are miserable and I hate being around them.
Nobody in particular
http://www.majorityrules.org/2020/01/donald-trump-and-hitlers-speeches-my-new-order.html
It was Vanity Fair, and Mein Kampf. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.
debbie
“Just for the sake of it”: Trump in a nutshell.
azlib
Well said, John.We all crave a return to some semblance of normalsy.
Omnes Omnibus
@azlib: No, not normalcy. Recognizable humanity.
Brachiator
@Galahad Threepwood:
I don’t know. What does it say that instead of starting Civil War 2.0, as predicted by some pundits, and seeking revenge and retribution, Biden supporters reacted to the confirmation of the election result with dancing and partying?
We have often been a divided country, and it certainly seems that a larger portion of citizens still cling to resentment and selfishness. But an even larger portion came out and voted for Biden, 74 million people. That’s hope.
taumaturgo
Got it. Trump is evil and with him out of the way the center-right lack of populist message left it to expose what it really stands for. What’s comes next? Will the center-right learn any lessons or just create another boogieman to hide the trashing in this elections? I fervently hope the conservative democrats this time are able to convince Mitch to see how similar they are to each other thereby blazing a path for enlightening legislations and blissful kumbayah. I mightly wish that the current leadership – with a horrible record of political malpractice – will be able to run as far as they can from the socialist-communist label that they have already internalized with zero pushback. Why would they push back and fight? Besides not being in their DNA is simpler to bash the liberals than defend the principles they pretend to care for. Is a twofer solution. Bash the new generation of leaders within the party while playing footsie with the GOP. What is left out of this calculation is when it comes to voting the Republicans seem to be able to discern between a bonafide Republican and a pretender, and the message in this election makes this point very clear; all things considered, they prefer the true Republicans, hate, bigotry, and all.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
It is not charisma. It is knowing how to manipulate and exploit peoples’ worst qualities. And doing so for no more reason than he can.
Feathers
@Brachiator: But the offering no evidence is what endeared him to his followers. If the only evidence needed to prove you are a superior human is your own testimony, woo hoo! It’s all good. It’s important to realize that the way to understand him is as a con man and grifter, not in the normal political science ways. His followers have more in common with cults (and grifter’s marks) than the parties we are used to.
This thread from @xeni talks about Trump and cults in an important and clarifying was: https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1325407951708848129
Omnes Omnibus
@taumaturgo: Tell us why populism is good.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: I agree with you. Trump is a great con man with those skills and charisma. He says the quiet part out loud and his followers love him for it. Tom Cotton or Josh Howley aren’t going to bellow that stuff out loud and Trump voters are going to be bored with them.
I look forward to Trump’s narcissism leading him to blame Republicans who didn’t get him re-elected. Not his “fans” (voters) but elected Republicans who “should have done more.” If Trump’s narcissism and need to blame someone else for his failings can help split the Republicans, I’m here for it.
Yarrow
@Omnes Omnibus: Normal feels revolutionary today.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Major Major Major Major:
Yup, from his stand-up comic pacing– what even some pundits try to sell as “trump is funny, admit it!”— to his self-made billionaire facade, there are a lot of things about trump that I can’t see Cotton or Haley or for that matter the Fredos or Grifter Barbie replicating.
WaterGirl
@Suzanne: Trump is not normal, he’s a sociopath, and there is a key human element missing from him
edit: I doubt that he has ever known love, or even understands what it is, or what it means to love someone. He is a big gaping hole.
Bill Arnold
@Major Major Major Major:
Pretty sure that this is a big part of the power of Trump; it’s the charisma of a con-man, an attribute that suckered many 10s of millions of Americans. If this is true, (successful) efforts to prove that his self-portrayals are false will be very worthwhile. It also means that effort should be spent identifying authoritarian up-and-comers and neutering their public appearances early and continuously. Ugly politics, potentially, but necessary and ethical if focused entirely on authoritarians/fascists.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, of course. Any subjective requirement is illiberal and potentially dangerous.
Baud
@Brachiator: Thank you.
Geoboy
@Suzanne: Regarding the misery inflicted on others by those who judge everything as a fucking contest, let’s not forget that this was one of W’s character traits. He just was more adept at hiding it.
Jacel
John, I see that your Twitter version of this piece was responded to by Mary L. Trump, who verified the truth of what you expressed about her uncle.
Suzanne
@azlib: Do I ever.
Everything about public life for the last four years has been a shitshow. I am still disheartened by the fact that so many people lived through the last four years and thought it was so great that we should do all that again. But, for this weekend, I’m gonna just feel good.
Ohio Mom
Galahad Threepwood:
I agree there are too many Trump supporters but it is not 47% of all American adults.
I don’t know the numbers offhand, but not everyone who could register to vote is in fact registered, and not every registered voter voted.
The actual number of Trump voters is probably close to the figure of 27% of Americans that people use as a shorthand for irredeemable deplorables.
Life on this planet throws up one bell curve after another, which means that the tail ends are going to populated. In this case, by either Trumpers or people beyond Berniebots.
Major Major Major Major
@debbie:
Your charisma stat doesn’t go down just because you’re chaotic evil.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator:
Civic nationalism can be a challenge sometimes, but it definitely beats the alternative, and it’s going to be very refreshing to have a fan running the government.
Yarrow
@debbie: If we don’t recognize it as charisma, we’ll miss the next authoritarian-in-the-making.
@Major Major Major Major: Yep.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: I am not sure I agree. I spent the last four years seeing Trump as an aberration. I think we have two enemies, the first is Trump’s overt fascists and the second is the less overt fascists who make up a shit load of the GOP. We beat one last week – the aberration. We have an ongoing fight against the other.*
*Don’t get me wrong; we had to beat Trump to have a chance at beating the other and beating him should be celebrated.
West of the Rockies
As this is a normal things post, may I ask for a bit of advice? I have one daughter who is 19. Only child of older academic parents. She is whip smart and creative, as psychologically sound as a teen whose senior year was hit by the Paradise Camp Fire and whose freshman year got stepped on by a pandemic can be.
She is majoring in psychology and minoring in Queer studies. She lives with her mom and has (some weekends with me, tons of chauffeuring, movies, a few trips, etc) mostly since we split up in ’14. I adore and support my daughter, and my ex and I are amicable. My daughter and her mom have had issues. My ex has been very frosty about our daughter coming out. (My daughter told me I have basically been Burt Hummel–a Glee reference to a very supportive father to his gay son.) She has a long distance relationship with a (this is challenging to word eloquently) young woman who is pondering transitioning partially to Male. She and I did go through the normal “Dad, you are so lame and embarrassing” thing when she was about 13-15.
But. She is about to transfer to UofO in Eugene or possibly Loyola in Chicago. She has suddenly been somewhat distant. I know she has to basically break the gravitational field of her parents, maybe me in particular because I’m the one she goes to for help and emotional support.
Here’s my question: is it normal for a soon-to-be nest-leaving kid to pull away like this? Is she trying to break some final uncomfortable bonds as she launches out on her own (with my continuing emotional and financial support)?
I want to make this transition to out-of-state life as easy as I can for her, but this does smart a bit. Anyone have any thoughts? Thank you in advance.
MattF
@taumaturgo: So… you’re going to vote Republican from now on because…
WaterGirl
Can I ask a question of the folks who set up zoom? How does one tell zoom to use a different email address for notifications than the one it uses? Zoom notices like “your attendees are waiting for you” are going to the wrong email address for a friend/client whose son set up her zoom.
Woodrow/asim
It says the same thing that allowing Jim Crow to exist for nearly a century, says about America. Or detaining Japanese folx during WWII.
I can go on, of course.
America is a struggle, man. It sounds like you’re just getting to know that. A lot of us had to learn it, the hard way, as well.
That’s why Dr. King preached love. He knew it’s easy to look out there, and see all the hate, and to allow it to harden your heart, like the Pharaoh. That is, in fact, where 90% of the GOP Leadership is, now.
We — the good guys, the Big Tent Party — cannot afford that luxury. We have to be both wary and open, able to hold strong boundaries yet not be too rigid to accept real attempts to do right — either tactical or deep within someone.
Without that, you don’t get your Robert Byrds and LBJs supporting the kind of legislation we need. Without that love and grace, you are forced to corrupt your morals and sell your soul to cling to power. Without keeping your heart open to people, you risk becoming exactly what you once stood against.
Don’t let them do that, please. Don’t let your fear of those 47% stop you from not only doing what’s right, but freezing from a loss of hope.
Thanks. :)
Major Major Major Major
@West of the Rockies:
My only experience is as the kid, but yes.
RandomMonster
Smiling and laughter are acts of vulnerability. Trump’s only motivation is dominance.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
I agree. Like Pence, they’re just garden-variety politicos.
Bill Arnold
@taumaturgo:
This is all very actively in play and will continue to be for years at least, so no. Why should we believe that you are not a ProFa troll?
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: I have no words of wisdom for you, except to say that Burt Hummel would have started a conversation with Kurt so they could talk about what was going on. And yes, Burt was awesome.
Chief Oshkosh
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, not exactly. About 69 million voters are willing to let everyone die of our 21st plague. They need to be told in no uncertain terms that it’s time to quit being spoiled shitheads, to grow up and, as Philly’s mayor said, put their big-boy pants on. If they cannot do this, if they cannot at least get out of the way of those trying to, literally, save lives, then they will have to be taught. Their deadly-to-others attitude is not “something we have to live with.” Their right to be dumbfucks does not supercede other’s right to just staying alive.
On a practical level, if for instance a national mask-wearing program is created and they don’t want to participate, then their first lesson will be a fine, the second lesson jail time. But really, these people are shithead weenies. They’ll piss and moan, but most of ’em will do what they’re told, or what they’re shamed into doing. If nothing else, mask mandates will allow businesses to enforce them, and then the weenies will fall in line, by and large.
Yarrow
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t think we disagree. I’ve struggled for a long time with the phrase “this isn’t normal” when used to describe Trump and his actions. In the course of history he would be “normal” for a leader. It has bothered me that people have described his presidency as “not normal,” when to me the more important issue is that his actions were wrong. Morally and ethically wrong.
But for me, today, Joe Biden is just a normal kind of guy and that – again to me – feels revolutionary. Like something completely crazy and new. My brain hasn’t quite adjusted.
WaterGirl
@Woodrow/asim: Great comment.
Dread
I don’t trust someone who doesn’t own a pet by choice (ignoring situations of cost, housing, or health reasons.)
Having a pet, even a goldfish, means you can make an emotional connection with something and can care for something other than yourself. Even if it’s just sprinkling some flakes into an aquarium and changing a filter every couple of weeks. Or setting out some food for a stray cat.
I can’t imagine Trump ever doing that for anything. Hell, the way his kids turned out are exactly what I would expect from a home that was devoid of affection, kindness, compassion, and empathy.
Brachiator
OT. I see that Peggy Noonan is one of the pundits on Meet the Press today. This is one of many things I hate about these shows. No matter how wrongheaded or disreputable some of these people are, they keep getting invited back, to be more wrongheaded and disreputable.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chief Oshkosh: Yes, that is part of living with it. We can’t just say some percentage of us suck so we can’t have nice things. That isn’t what I meant. Our plans have to take into account that some percentage of suck and that we need to get around that fact.
Woodrow/asim
@West of the Rockies: Seconding @Major Major Major Major: as someone who was once a teen-turning-adult who happened to be trying to minor in Child Psych — yeah, that sounds about right.
To be honest — I don’t know if my relationship with my own Mother really survived my College years — it wasn’t until close to her own passing we really reconciled a lot of what started when I left. A kid who, from what I’m reading from you, is working hard had the kinds of studies that demand a lot of self-analysis is likely going to re-work their engagements and life around that.
You don’t minor in Queer Studies unless you’re deeply invested in that mode of being, and the culture(s) that shape it. You might be really well off by asking her to explain it to you, like you were 5 — I think my own mother struggled to “get” what I was about, and that’s where things started to splinter for us. Dont’ push this, of course — yet I’ve seen that sometimes, allowing your kid to tech you really helps re-connect bonds. :)
Also: If someone is working through gender, I recommend the all-purpose “They”. It’s not really any of our beeswax what gender they are, and “they” allows you to just note that this person is Doing the Work, without layering on potential gender assumptions, esp. in public discussions.
Ruckus
I have a theory of humanity.
It ranges from totally domineering to totally submissive. And that’s a big spread.
In the middle is a large range of humanity which runs from will lead but not domineer to will follow but not submit.
We all fall somewhere along this line, and we all have other issues, such as I say below trump has a side of fucking rich moron.
trump falls into totally domineering with a side of fucking rich moron, imbecile, idiot, take your favorite pick. And he’s pissed because only those on the very submissive or the lower end of totally domineering think his shit doesn’t stink. And he’s racist because that helps him have a large group(s) of people to domineer, as are those in the lower end of totally domineering. Now those who know say he’s not rich, which is true. He’s not at all, he’s thrown away all his money, that moron part comes into play here. (That he’s also thrown away large sums of other people’s money should not be forgotten.)
Most of the racists are that because they fall into that lower end of totally domineering and need someone to domineer. A group that doesn’t look like them is perfect. Also we have a rather shitty history of being a racist nation, because that’s our history. Yes that doesn’t make sense but to do that you’d have to have had a break in the racism exhibited in our country that allowed the victims of the racism to take a place in that history. And a lot of the racists have stifled any possibility of that because of the racism and where they fall on the domineering line. And anyone’s place on that line is not because of any valuable contribution to society or lack there of, it’s only due to their personalities.
Immanentize
@Yarrow: I was just in the car listening to an interview with Dr. Arthur Kleinman (new 40th book — The Soul of Care) and he reminded me of Weber’s discussion of charism — that it is not something a person posesses but is an energy between the speaker and audience created by both toward a common end. That sounds like Trump and his followers. I am so hoping it was the charism that did this to us, because I don’t really see any other demagogues in the wings who could do the same magic.
Tehanu
Terrific post, John. Thanks.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
But his speeches are never anything more than his personal grievances. There’s no charm, like Obama, JFK, even Reagan. There’s no grand visions or appealing to our better selves, like Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt. There’s nothing at all in him, other than me, me, me whining.
I first came across Donald Trump in 1978, and he hasn’t changed one bit in all those years. He hasn’t grown (other than widthwise), he hasn’t developed a set of principles or a philosophy. All he has ever had is the ability to lie unabashedly. That isn’t charisma. The followers he has are there because it’s always easier to let someone else express the anger, hate, and resentment they’ve also felt.
Jinchi
What always shocks me with Trump is that I have to struggle to remember that he has a young teenage son living with him. I think I’ve seen them in exactly two pictures together, both at public events. Never with any indication that the two have ever spoken to one another.
Immanentize
@debbie: The grievance, and the power to say it, is the ideology.
ETA Hence — “fuck your feelings” being the battle cry of his troops.
Hoodie
I could care less about Trump’s twisted psyche, but I think this is a key to his support. Trump embodies zero sum thinking, and a lot of people tend to think in zero sum terms when they perceive they’re in an era when there seem to be no viable solutions to problems, i.e., when you feel you’re adrift in the lifeboat and it’s time to start sizing up your shipmates for dinner. Trump was essentially giving people license to think that way without guilt, that’s how you end up separating kids from their parents at the border or letting a pandemic go uncontained. Those become just “things that must be done” to prevent extinction of what life you think you have.
Because of this, the pandemic actually may have helped Trump and the outpouring of support for him was not as attenuated as expected by his godawful performance in dealing with the pandemic. It reinforced a lot of his followers fatalism, or even nihilism. Sociopath that he is, Trump may have even realized this. For example, he may have deliberately pushed the superspreader rallies and theories about herd immunity precisely because it would take his followers even deeper into the pit of despair and increase their ardor in supporting him.
zhena gogolia
@Woodrow/asim:
Excellent comment.
O. Felix Culpa
@Woodrow/asim: That’s beautiful and true. Thank you.
debbie
@West of the Rockies:
Yes, it’s normal. I’ve seen it in my friends’ kids and my nieces and nephews. I remember when I and my friends went through it too. It’s a phase. Let her know you’ll always be there for her and she’ll circle back when she needs to.
Oklahomo
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t know about populism but the pie filter is great.
Chief Oshkosh
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah. Got it. I agree.
scav
@Dread: Well, it’s good to know I’m inherently untrustworthy and unable to take care of anything let alone form human bonds merely because I’ve no interest in having an animal around the house. Don’t worry though — I knew I already had no chance of a political career because I’m an agnostic.
taumaturgo
@MattF: I won’t but Trump saw 18% of black men and 8% of black women voters increase for him. I can understand how adopting the center-right narrative of socialism bad, Trump bad, and voters who don’t understand bad, will drive true Republicans and a lot of minority voters to stick to a brand while conservative democrats are not even aware that they don’t have a brand, just trite tropes such as “yes we can” “when they go low we go high” and my favorite, “there are no blue states or red states, only the United States of America.” For heaven’s sake, the party is in urgent need of a leadership purge.
Immanentize
@Hoodie: interesting. Thanks.
Omnes Omnibus
@Oklahomo: No, thank you. I am aware of the pie filter.
West of the Rockies
@Woodrow/asim
Thank you (and MajorX4). My daughter goes with female pronouns but her SO uses “they”.
I will–as WG suggested above–try to talk to her about things. I can put up with some eye rolling and low-grade condescension.
I know it wasn’t until I was about 23 that I realized that my father wasn’t the most ludicrous man on the planet.
ThresherK
@Alison Rose: What is, grateful, yet sad?
Immanentize
@Woodrow/asim: I agree, but love is not the complete answer. Dr. King was willing to love, but also fully understood the danger of the moderate white, and the real violence arrayed against him and his by the less moderate.
prostratedragon
John, you’re so right about Trump. That utter lack of love in any sense is the problem, and if a person has that problem they don’t need any other.
As for bananas, well, actually they’re best about a day later when still firm, but they have the little bit of juice that they make.
Omnes Omnibus
@taumaturgo: Eighteen percent and 8% increase? Or total percentages? And any chance of a citation to support that? My understanding is that final numbers aren’t in yet so it is kind of a dipshit move to draw conclusions from the numbers.
Cermet
America was built on racism; yes, that included slavery. By the way, slavery wasn’t fully ended in 1865 – it continued in very much its exact form till WWII; all through the south black teens and black young men were ruthlessly arrested for failure to prove they had a job! Arrest fee’s (the cops loved those), court and temp jail costs were added to the bill. Then these young black men served a year in a real gulag – forced labor by coal and steel companies. Failure to work at these companies allowed overseer’s to torture them in many forms. Unmarked gaves liter these old mines/steel plants through out the south. This was what formed the backbone of part of this laughable democracy. Blacks didn’t fair too much better in the north. To this day we still use prison labor with little pay and terrible conditions. That’s today’s laughable demococy.
Meanwhile, white men make a fortune selling legal weed as black men still sit in jail for the exact fucking thing but they are called drug dealers. Fuck this crazy judicial system and our fucking democracy is rather selective.
How many of you know this real amerikan democracy history?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You know, the trite tropes that won two branches of government, saved the economy, restored our international standing, passed the biggest incremental (yeah, I said it) increase in health care coverage in a generation….
(but my tweets, my slogans….)
Immanentize
@Brachiator: Is she complaining about people dancing in the streets of DC?
Splitting Image
For me it was the ice cream. Everyone at his table gets a scoop of ice cream for dessert and he and he alone gets two scoops. Just so you know it sucks to be you, peon.
Joe Biden eating an ice cream cone comes across as just a guy who enjoys an ice cream cone now and again.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Some people never cared for Martha and the Vandellas. No accounting for taste.
MisterForkbeard
See Taumaturgo.
See Taumatrugo scream about “center-right” democrats.
See Taumaturgo already blame Democrats for everything not being a perfect progressive paradise
Don’t be Taumaturgo
EDIT: Don’t be MisterForkbeard and feed the trolls, either. Sorry!
Yarrow
@Jinchi:
We don’t really have evidence that Barron lives with Trump. There are rumors that Melania and Barron live somewhere else with her parents.
Ruckus
@Woodrow/asim:
My sister went through this with mom and maybe a bit with dad. It was tough for her because she was always her own person, even more so than me, even long before the concept that she was not where she was “supposed to fit in.” I think the orientation adjustment was tough for the 3 of them, although in far different degrees, and I’m not sure mom every really made it. For me, I only wanted what made people happy, as long as they weren’t telling others what they needed to be or who they needed to be with.
My life has been a series of trying to find my way in life and every time I tried and got happy, the situation, or me, or the other person fucked it up. And yet I’m happy because I gave the things I wanted a shot, however that has worked out. Move ahead because that’s the only direction there is, look back to see what did or didn’t work. IOW learn as you go along, because that’s what life is.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: exit polls are of course not finalized yet but all indicators, pre and post election, are that Trump enjoyed increased AA support. Partly because he had nowhere to go but up, I’m sure, and there’s a randomness to these things as well.
You wanna talk demographic shifts we should wrap our heads around, let’s figure out what happened with Tejanos and Vietnamese-Americans. (Anecdata is that there was a big anti-China vote for the latter)
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize: I think the definition of “love” as Dr. King meant it — and I suspect Woodrow/asim means too — is contained in the second half of your comment: not a squishy sentimental love, but a kind of tough love that stands firmly against oppression and injustice, knowing the potential consequences of taking that stance in an unjust and violent society.
JoyceH
Man, SOMETHING has to be done! Yesterday there were 134K new cases and new diagnoses tend to be lower on the weekends. Those are all people who were infected a week or two ago, and they’ve spent the time from infection to diagnosis wandering around infecting others. We could easily see 200K or even a quarter million cases a day before Thanksgiving. Easily.
And frankly, I’m starting to blame the deniers. Yes, they’ve been lied to, but by now, they have to accept the evidence of their own eyes. And maybe their governor is a Trumper who refuses to issue a mask mandate – but masks aren’t PROHIBITED either. They could start masking up without a mandate. And yes, Trump shouldn’t have been allowed to hold those insane superspreader rallies, but nobody forced them to attend them.
It’s going to get bad, ugly bad, and real quick. If you have Thanksgiving plans, especially plans that involve airplanes, cancel them. If you have friends who refuse to acknowledge the seriousness of the situation, cut them loose. Concentrate on the survival of yourself and those who are willing to help themselves.
Morzer
Four years of a presidency – and I can’t remember a single moment in which the *president said anything wise, good or honorable. I can’t remember him expressing compassion, decency or respect for another human being. How many lives has the Abomination harmed, ruined, made miserable? Four miserable, sordid, ugly years. Well, that time is nearly over and we have a chance to rebuild, clean up, let some fresh air into the creaking building where we live. Let’s do our best and go forward to a better future for everyone.
Thank you for this post, John. Watching your transformation over the last two decades has been quite a journey, what with the naked mopping and the mustard and all, but you’ve become the wise, kind, lovable fellow we all knew you were deep down and it’s very good to see.
Bill Arnold
@Cermet:
You couldn’t fucking resist; no messaging discipline.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Tomato is attempting to make a point with data, but they are unclear about their numbers and where they came from.
Ruckus
@Hoodie:
Agree.
trollhattan
@Suzanne:
Fascinates/horrifies me so many of his supporters–you know the ones–find him so relatable. “He’s one of us” is deeply ironic because beyond the fact that he agrees with them that they should worship him, he has zero regard for them, their lives or their needs. Unless they’re fucking rich, those folks he’ll listen to.
Catherine D.
If you haven’t seen them yet, the side-by-side Der Spiegel covers.
Splitting Image
@taumaturgo:
Bill Kristol said the same thing this morning but said it more intelligently.
Immanentize
@West of the Rockies: I’m not sure this will be helpful, but yes I think the pull away is natural. My son (19) did it, but he’s coming back too but he’s better — more his own creation.
My mother (just turned 90 last month) told me about 5 years ago that she and my Dad had raised their three boys (I’m the baby) to be independent adults. But when that succeeded and we became what they wanted, it hurt.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cermet:
is this a draft of a talk you’re planning to give to a group of “well, I wish he would tweet less” suburban trump voters?
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus: People who don’t like Martha and the Vandellas have no taste.
trollhattan
@Catherine D.:
It’s pretty great, because they completely understand both ends of the American political spectrum. I’ll bet a euro that every European followed the campaign and election. Every one. How many European leaders could the typical American name, much less describe how they got to office?
jonas
@Brachiator: Not only was he actually pathetic, he somehow would get people over and over again to flat-out lie for him without batting an eye. Which aide was it who told a journalist that Trump was the most deeply and widely-read person they had ever met? He *could* have written for the New Yorker, but just didn’t feel like it.
Bill Arnold
@Omnes Omnibus:
Or how (if indeed real; exit polls were at least as broken as regular polls this election, probably) they apply to Republicans downballot, or how they apply if Trump isn’t on the ballot. (e.g. runoff elections.) Or etc. Some of the early analyses I’ve seen have made laughable assumptions/assertions about validity and about causality.
trollhattan
@Morzer:
I remember during 2016 how devoid the Trump campaign was of testimonials from friends and random people he had positive interactions and relationships with–common and presumably required campaign tropes. The only “testimonials” were from his kids, exalting “just how super-great dad is.”
Everything else was airing of grievances, 24/7.
JoyceH
It’s worse than that. There’s also deliberate cruelty involved. There was a story that illustrates that from 2016.
Remember when Obama told his daughters that if he won the election they’d get a dog? Yeah, but did you remember that Trump told Barron the same thing?
He did. He promised Barron a dog. And this wasn’t just some generic promise – a supporter offered them a puppy. This was a SPECIFIC DOG. Barron had a PICTURE of the dog! He was really excited that he was going to get a dog.
And then Trump pulled the rug out from under him. Nah. Scratch the dog idea. Dogs are too much work. As if HE would have to have anything to do with the dog, with a White House staff full of people who would love to look after it!
I can’t think of any explanation for that other than a deliberate delight in cruelty.
(Oh, and I too have heard those rumors that Melania and Barron actually live in the Maryland suburbs with her parents and she ‘commutes’ to her job in the White House. If that’s true – I hope the grandparents have a dog!)
Scuffletuffle
Atothefuckingmen, now where are my cigarettes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@trollhattan: The Hoarse Whisperer was collecting some of the responses he was getting from abroad. Church bells in Paris, fireworks in the UK, champagne and tears in Switzerland, and this one
Jinchi
Yes and I don’t think it’s a sign of problems on your part.
Personally, I got along great with my parents (and still do) and had no real problems that any other young adult did. But at 19, I had to get as far away from home as possible just to feel like a legitimate adult. I can’t imagine what it’s like for those who were locked down by corona at the end of their senior year in high school and still had no end in sight as they started college. If she’s like most 19 year olds, she’s simultaneously an adult, but highly dependent on her parents for financial support. That’s grating.
Hopefully the end of Trump is a sign of a happy future. Just let her know that you support her and try not to take it too hard if you get radio silence for a while. 19 is the age where the whole “unconditional love” mantra is actually tested.
laura
@West of the Rockies: I’m not a professional therapist and so I can’t offer an opinion about differentiating and separation. I’m experienced in being a loved and wanted child who had a dad I adored and treated me and my brothers as the proudest achievements that he and mom could ever aspire to – even with or flaws and fuckups and setbacks. Please know that you daughter will go forth into a new world and build a community of all manner of people. But you and you alone will remain the most reliable and irreplaceable role of parent. You will always be a measuring stick. Take heart.
Immanentize
@O. Felix Culpa: I am for that!!!
ETA It’s like forgiveness requires someone to repent first.
MagdaInBlack
@scav: If we wish to look for personal insults, we can find them all day, every day, everywhere. I personally don’t waste my energy on it. Most people don’t intend, and so why worry about it.
MisterForkbeard
@Omnes Omnibus: Those numbers are from early exit polls of in-person voting.
In other words, completely undependable and skewed enormously towards Trump by virtue of being in-person only.
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: can’t speak to the exact numbers they’re using, just saying that it’s not pure dipshittery to draw some conclusions from the many available numbers. eg https://twitter.com/jmilescoleman/status/1325267759769546753?s=21
Catherine D.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I saw some of those responses, and I cried happy tears.
Morzer
@West of the Rockies: I think what your daughter is doing is absolutely normal and rather healthy. When she pulls away, it’s partly a stage in the development of her own identity, partly a (subconscious) preparation for what will be her new normal as she builds a life away from you in a new place and with a new group of people. Don’t let it get you down or take it as a personal rejection.
Hob
What gets me about the pets thing isn’t just that Trump doesn’t like pets and would be terrible at having pets. There’s a clip where he’s talking about this and his attempt at an explanation is basically just: “Can you imagine what it’d look like, me walking a dog in the White House lawn? (makes vague face)… No, no.” As if 1. we all know why that’d be bad, I mean no one actually likes dogs, right? (he’s clearly leaving room for a knowing laugh from the audience, which doesn’t really come, there’s just a weak and delayed laugh like “Trump said something that he thinks is funny, so I guess I agree”)… and 2. what matters is whether he, Trump, would look inappropriate in some way.
Immanentize
@MisterForkbeard: This. They have been very successfully deployed though, haven’t they?
Hoodie
@trollhattan: We got immediate texts from friends in Paris. I think Europeans are really worried about us, it’s both gratifying and sad they think of us that way, and the implication that everything will be ok with Biden in the White House. Chappelle had something about that in his monologue on SNL, which was a bit uneven but did have some excellent moments. The homage to Lenny Bruce was interesting.
Ruckus
@JoyceH:
I live in CA, a state that has a lot of cases but is not close to the accelerating second wave. We have in LA county an indoors mask requirement. I live in a seniors complex and I’d say about half of the people wear masks when out. I’ve been yelled for wearing a mask while I’m out walking. My middle finger is getting a bit of a workout.
There is a percentage of assholes in every corner of the world. America does not have a lock on the asshole contingent, although we seem to have more than our fair share. The conservative side of politics in many parts of the world has been using the assholes (and yes being a big part of the assholes) to win power. It will take education and time to fix any of this mess, but we need to do it or the future will be bleak. Or bleaker.
Omnes Omnibus
@Major Major Major Major: Saying 18% and 8% without any context was pure dipshittery.
Morzer
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/amp/2020/11/2020-election-smile-democrats-trump-lost-you-won.html
Bart
RIP Alex Trebek.
taumaturgo
@Splitting Image: I had to edit it for brevity and comprehension for my own understanding and that of others. /s
Major Major Major Major
@Omnes Omnibus: was responding to “My understanding is that final numbers aren’t in yet so it is kind of a dipshit move to draw conclusions from the numbers.” but it’s not really important.
MisterForkbeard
@Omnes Omnibus: I didnt get to edit my previous comment in time, but the numbers aren’t really dependable.
That said, Trump DID go up a bit. This is kind of understandable – he signed a couple of Dem Bills that help black folks and took credit for them, didn’t actively say the n-word, and his macho personality probably appealed to some people. And like Major says, he had nowhere to go but up.
Let’s wait for better numbers, but I dont see much in the way of useful analysis coming out of this.
Cckids
@Major Major Major Major: By that rule, you’d eliminate Obama. They didn’t get Bo till after inauguration.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
.@Major Major Major Major: ou wanna talk demographic shifts we should wrap our heads around, let’s figure out what happened with Tejanos and Vietnamese-Americans
I tend to go with two observations from Clinton world: “It’s the economy, stupid”; and “strong and wrong” holds a lot of appeal for a lot of people.
scav
@MagdaInBlack: I’m actually not personally insulted — especially by some random entity on the interwebs — it’s more that the rationale for the distinction is on the basic logical lines of I wouldn’t trust anyone that hasn’t married a person of the opposite gender. It’s just how I chose to respond — I mistakenly thought bringing up the atheism would reinforce the arbitrary bias of the bright line they were espousing.
taumaturgo
@MisterForkbeard: Sorry, but the majority of middle America disagrees with you and the current conservative leadership. Middle America has consistently supported the communist-socialist $15 minimum wage, M4A, money out of politics, free college, and canceling of student debts, they support a wealth tax, they support laws to take money out of politics. By not highlighting any of these issues, the Biden team turned a layup into overtime and a disaster for the down ballots.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: the “better off now than four years ago” figures definitely explain some of the growth. Like everything else it’s complicated and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions though.
Cermet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Apparently, you consider these people as such? I wanted white people to know the real meaning of elections; this country is based on racism and most white’s don’t have the faintest idea what most blacks have endured. Before acting like all is well again, realize blacks (who have, on average, 1/8 of the wealth of whites and for the reasons I pointed out) haven’t been and still aren’t treated anywhere near what our ideals would indicate.
waspuppet
To be Scrupulously Fair, if you’re going to destroy a steak by cooking it well done, WTF — go ahead and put ketchup on it. Put peanut butter on it if you want. The damage is already done.
O. Felix Culpa
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Also, as has been discussed before, the Hispanic “community” is not uniform. Cubans in Miami have little in common with Mexican immigrants and their descendants in Arizona, for example. And some traditional Hispanics in New Mexico (by which I mean descendants of the conquistadors, who have been here since the 16th century) despise the recently arrived immigrants from Central America and Mexico. There’s no “Hispanic” solidarity there or shared identity at all. In other words, it’s varied and complicated.
Tim Posh-looking in a mask
@Morzer: how long do we get to ride this high? Because highs crash. Then it’s back to business. There are many long national, indeed international, nightmares still happening with no end in sight (cough cough)….is it understood that Joe has not just a win, but the gawd-almighty mandate? If so, all he has to do is stand tall, and force the Senate’s hand on Covid relief, climate action, all the nice things. Mitch and them swore to make Obama a 1-term pres. They failed. Then they got their rubber stamp/useful idiot. Well, he’s out. So they can work with Joe for all good things or recede further into irrelevance and lose huge in 2022. Right? Forgive my ham-handed stab at analysis.
Kent
Latest data dump went in Biden’s favor and his AZ lead crept back up. But I don’t think anyone knows for certain. It will be close.
SiubhanDuinne
@Dread:
I could very easily be wrong about this, but to the best of my knowledge none of the younger Trumps has a pet. Certainly none of them has ever mentioned a beloved dog or cat (or goldfish) nor posted a goofy photo of same to their social media accounts the way most people with pets do.
IIRC, shortly after the new administration was sworn in in January 2017, Trump mocked his vice-president unmercifully because the Pence family owned several pets, including a rabbit. Apart from their horrible upbringing, their father’s attitude likely discouraged DJTJr, Eric, Jarvanka, and Tiffany from bringing a nice animal into their lives. I mean, nobody wants their daddy to point and laugh at them.
PJ
@Omnes Omnibus: New York doesn’t start counting absentee ballots until tomorrow. There are still millions of ballots to be counted around the country.
Ruckus
@Hob:
He is a massive narcissist. Every waking moment of his life is about him. He’s president of a major country, with 5% of the worlds population, not an insignificant position, and none of his world is about anything but how great it is that he’s president. Not one word about what or how he’s doing, only that he’s the guy. And it always would be a guy, because women are so beneath him as the world’s greatest human being. His entire life has been getting here to be the world’s greatest human being. The inside of his head has only one word in it, ME.
And it’s usually stated as MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMME….
Geoduck
I think he has some vague.. awareness.. of music. He even tried to “dance” to YMCA at rallies towards the end there. I don’t know how much direct effort he puts into choosing the music for those travesties, but I imagine he just picks stuff that is Famous and Popular (and Fairly Old), because it helps make him more Famous and Popular too. And getting back to the dick-measuring, there’s the fact that he kept playing certain tunes after being repeatedly requested/ordered to stop by their creators: “I can do whatever I want and no one can stop me.”
As for smiling, the one time I’ve seen him come close to displaying a human one is at his wedding, yukking it up with, yes, the Clintons. Bitter irony there.
patrick Il
Kropacetic
This, until a little while after the inauguration, is basically the same time period where all I heard from people on my Facebook feed in 2016 was “Give Trump chance.” It felt wrong. Why would I want to give someone who spent the prior year promising to do all these things I found absolutely deplorable a chance to do those things? Were they hoping I’d magically decide I’d be OK with banning Muslims entering the country?
Biden, however, has shown evidence of of learning from past mistakes and is working toward a better of policies than he had before. This is the guy that “give him a chance” was made for.
Sure Lurkalot
@Ohio Mom: According to Google, there are 209 million people over the voting age of 18….71 million is a little over 1/3. Not all of them are rally going cultists, but it is disconcerting they could vote for the man Mr. Cole has described to a tee.
One of the Many Jens
@West of the Rockies:
My general advice in these situations is to ask them/say something. If it’s particularly sensitive, sometimes I’ll write it as a letter, to prevent my own emotions from hijacking my questions, and to give the recipient some space to react without having to juggle their response and me at the same time. There seems to be a lot from your post that you could use for that. In such cases, I will often start off with the reality that I don’t know the best way to ask the question/say the thing, but that because I love them, saying something now feels more important than waiting to find the “best way,” which may never come. (Depending on the issue, I find it can be better to make sure things are framed by feeling/seeming/etc, vs trying to frame something as a fact.)
Anyway – I don’t know what the right answer might be for you and your daughter, but the above is how I deal with situations where I don’t quite know what to do or how to help. Good luck, and best wishes to you both.
O. Felix Culpa
@Hoodie: I have had friends from all around the world reach out to express congratulations. I think they’re as relieved as we are.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Wow.
trollhattan
@Sure Lurkalot:
Don’t forget to subtract the 100 million on parole….
MisterForkbeard
@taumaturgo: Honestly, when you call Biden a “conservative” all your cred goes out the window.
You should think about why that is in between your next 14 rants about why you’re the persecuted ones, Democrats hate you and things would just be better if everyone did everything say. And I forgot the one about how we’re the real villains.
JoyceH
The perfect illustration of that, IMO, was when he went to El Paso after that shooting spree, trying to go through the motions of the ‘consoler in chief’ business. He met with survivors and relatives of the dead, and later talked with the media. His big takeaway, and as far as I can recall, the ONLY thing he talked about, was how thrilled the people he met with had been to meet him. Geeeeez…
PJ
@taumaturgo: There’s no point in parsing all your foolishness, but here’s a start:
ETA: You could know all of this if you paid attention to Biden’s campaign or just went to his website. He has proposals for all of these issues.
Kropacetic
@MisterForkbeard: I’m just gonna say that the D party is the place for legitimate (not movement*) conservatives and that’s a good thing.
*Movement Conservatives are truly backward-looking radicals, they are not conservative
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne:
If serving in the military is for losers–“What’s in it for them?”–then having a moocher animal in the house must likewise be for losers. Unless it’s being raised as food.
One wonders whether pets went mysteriously missing in the Queens Trump neighborhood back in the ’50s. It would be irresponsible not to speculate.
Patricia Kayden
Brachiator
@Immanentize:
I just saw the program listing. I could not actually watch the show.
MisterForkbeard
@PJ: But don’t you understand? Biden didn’t run on those things ENOUGH and didn’t give AOC a big role at the convention so therefore actually hates all those ideas.
I just can’t with these people. 5 days after the election and they’re already declaring internal war with the man who has the most progressive policies the presidency has ever seen.
Criticism is one thing, hateful sabotage is another. He’s like Spanberger flipping the fuck out during the House conference – there’s a germ of truth there but way out of line in what he says about it.
mrmoshpotato
“I have tremendous, bigly brain!”
“FUCK YOU, BURNT STEAK BOY!”
Citizen Alan
@taumaturgo:
You’re an idiot. And also pie’d.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: @Omnes Omnibus:
I’ll nominate very specific targeting of certain groups with Facebook and other social media as a player for all the results that seem bizarre.
Remember all the data they had access to and shouldn’t? These are the guys who have targeted specific smaller races over several elections in order to take over statehouses, etc.
Butter Emails
@taumaturgo:
gwangung
Now THAT’S a line too far!
Butter Emails
@WaterGirl:
I suspect your correct that it was Facebook and other specific media targeting and a failure on our part to counter that misinformation in a timely manner.
satby
@West of the Rockies: Not just normal but a necessary development on the way to adulthood. Fun fact, even high school exchange students do it as their school year ends and they start to prepare to go home. So, I’ve been through that phase 30 (!!!) times between my bio, foster, and exchange sons and daughters. Keep on being you, the supportive and understanding dad. You staying you provides an anchor during their unsettled times. She knows you love her and are there for her, trust in that.
Sure Lurkalot
@taumaturgo: I read and heard this for a coupleof decades now…how many of the issues you have brought up poll in the 70% range which would transcend political affiliation. At this point, I have to wonder how the questions are asked and in what context, because the socialism boogeyman appeared to work pretty well this cycle. Maybe better than the true lurch toward fascism.
SiubhanDuinne
@trollhattan:
Ha! Never even thought of that — the “pets as moochers” angle!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
satby
Oh, I’m totally blaming them. I’ve watched the management of the farmer’s market BEG the deniers to wear masks because the refuseniks are cutting market traffic and income in half, and they won’t and nobody is the boss of them. One was complaining about being sick for the last two days and would never consider staying home, or getting tested. A lot of them are that way, and I have no concern for them any longer. I even expect a lot of them to lie about it if they did get tested and were positive. Sociopaths all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Major Major Major Major: I agree, I think many of us(Democrats) really didn’t understand how much of a factor Trump celebrity was a factor in 2016(and 2020). In 2016, I thought it was probably worth 1-2% of the vote.
Steve in the ATL
@West of the Rockies:
Hell, that’s the most fundamental element of being a parent!
Brachiator
@Tim Posh-looking in a mask:
But at least we had the weekend to party, and to recover from any hangovers. I am still bemused at how joyously people celebrated. The sheer happiness expressed all over the place made me smile, and was certainly an antidote to all the predictions of sullen resistance and rebellion.
Your take is as valid as anyone else’s.
Wild card: we don’t know if Trump will settle down and try to be productive during the last months of his administration. Okay, we don’t know how much of an ass he will be or how long he will continue to try to disrupt and deny.
I suspect that McConnell will continue to be obstructionist. In my ideal world, Biden will extend an offer of conciliation, but then clearly make note that the GOP will not behave, and then move on and do what he needs to do.
Steve in the ATL
@Immanentize:
OMG why do you hate the Beatles?!
Woodrow/asim
@Patricia Kayden: Mz. Hannah-Jones’ work refutes part of Cermet — and why that is, is crucial to this moment in America.
When I do research, for example, into Historical White Voting Suppression, it’s with an eye towards contributing to the building of bridges. It’s in the spirit that I’m still learning things — I didn’t know that Dr. King was rhetorically brutal towards White folx who didn’t take of active anti-racism work, until I did the reading, because we — and that includes my own family who knew Dr. King, indirectly — didn’t talk about these things, as the 70s moved into the 80s.
Hell, my own research journey didn’t start until Coates started posting about American Civil War research he was publically doing, the work that would lead to his Reparations works, years later. That spurred me to actually take up learning my own background from a political POV, as opposed to the ancestral approach usually favored.
Yes, White folx need to do The Work, as well. Yet I think it’s good to present these thingss in the spirit, at start, of Black folx sharing what we’ve learned, and reminding folx we shouldn’t have to be doing this shit alone. Researching the Black past can be traumatic, and Not Always Fun. Yet neither is it great to finger-wag from jump.
It’s 1000% true White folx have a responsibility, here. If y’all don’t talk to other White folx, and promote the people who are trying to break these modern-day chains, who are digging up the old hidden bones of our history, then all this work is for vain.
Yet that should be a shared work. If Black folx are the solution, then let us work together, in synergy, to build that better tomorrow.
And that is a decision that White folx, in America, do need to make — and reinforce with yourselves, and others, every day. :)
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus:
“A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.”
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: Same with my mom and her three daughters.
Apparently she wanted us to be independent everywhere but with her. :-)
Woodrow/asim
@Immanentize: As others have noted, that’s why I put the words in around boundaries.
Not everything has to be said with an anvil, I should think. :)
Bill Arnold
@WaterGirl:
Twitter has recently become better, in part because of proper leadership[1]. Facebook, OTOH, was effectively a for-profit RW propaganda platform in the 2020 US election. They need to be held accountable for it, to be mild.
[1] Is Twitter Going Full Resistance? Here’s the Woman Driving the Change. – Vijaya Gadde flies under the radar in a world that worships tech CEOs. But she’s quickly moving Twitter toward a tougher line on speech—and infuriating conservatives along the way. (NANCY SCOLA, 10/28/2020)
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard: It’s possible that his credibility may have flown out the window long ago.
Brachiator
@West of the Rockies:
BTW: a quick note on an old post.
Yes.
And it kinda sounds like your kid knows how much you love her (or them, as appropriate).
Best wishes to both of you.
Haroldo
@West of the Rockies:
I left the orbit of my parents at 19 as well. Our daughter, not so much. So, as with pretty much all things, it depends.
Eugene is not at all a bad place to go to university. Big enough for culcha, small enough to get you arms around it, the ocean and mountains an easy car ride away.
gwangung
If you’re wondering about Trump and Vietnamese Americans, perhaps this monolog from Qui Nguyen’s Vietgone might help. The character is a Vietnamese refugee (supposedly his father, but probably taken from other Vietnamese immigrants):
West of the Rockies
Thanks to all who offered advice to me on parenting! It’s been very helpful.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the ATL: “And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.”
Tim Posh-looking in a mask
@Brachiator: it would be Joe style to reach across the aisle. Once. He has an edge now, and Trump, even Mitch can recognize that obese flailing turtle now. Already irrelevant. Senate has only one third of power now. We can force that hand. Right?
Nutmeg again
@West of the Rockies: in reply to the question in your earlier post, I think the answer is yes. If your kid has been going to school near a parent’s home, then doubly so. (Mine chose her school partly b/c it was a few hours from home–far enough to feel a real separation.)
He father and I had a hellish divorce in the middle of her college years. She spent her junior year in Germany, and then went back there for good after graduation. She’s nearly 30 now. We have a very close relationship, as close as you can be, from an ocean apart. She wants nothing to do with her father.
The geographic separation is sometimes painful (like now–fucking pandemic … ) but curiously it has made her grow up well, and maybe faster than if she was hanging around parental units? And, it draws a very clear boundary. Of course I’m pretty careful with that anyway, but having her so far away does shape things in a particular way. Oh–she’s my only kid, just to be clear.
I always tell myself, that I raised her to be her own person and have a real life. Sometimes that works, and sometimes, well, I wish I was a drinker!
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne:
Ivanka’s family has a dog. It is … very white. I remember people laughing about that at the time. Kind of looks like a white fox, if it was a dog. Blue eyes. Name of “Winter.” (Which has come.)
Nylon.com: Twitter Has Feelings about Ivanka Trump’s New White Dog
Steve in the ATL
@Elizabelle: there’s a big difference between having a dog because you cherish animal companionship and having a dog to help your Instagram brand
Another Scott
@Elizabelle: I’ve never seen a coffee table dog before.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
@Steve in the ATL: Yeah. That dog is the canine answer to the late Karl Lagerfeld’s cherished and much spoiled Choupette. More a designer accessory than any dog you ever find at the pound. (In fairness, Lagerfeld apparently adored his cat.)
Moar for you and Siubhan: this was funny: Jezebel, 2019: Yeah, I’m Canceling Ivanka Trump’s Dog
Elizabelle
@Another Scott: Winter is it!
ETA: to move from dogs to the blog topic: the Bidens are authentic, and have lived in the real world. It shows.
topclimber
@Cermet: I know a fair amount about this history, but thank you for adding details I did not know. We need to stay pissed about it. And pissed enough to end the pipeline from prison to cheap contract labor. Biden renewing the Obama ban on private federal prisons that Trump neutered will be a start.
In fits and starts, we make progress on racial justice. Sometimes, we even connect the dots between black exploitation and union-bashing that affects workers of all colors. Our adversaries are skilled at finding new ways to disenfranchise and exploit the children of slavery. But they are not omnipotent.
NoraLenderbee
I don’t trust someone who doesn’t like Martha and the Vandellas. It shows they are unable to make an emotional connection with something or care for something other than themselves. Their homes are obviously devoid of affection, kindness, compassion, and empathy.
I don’t trust someone who doesn’t like chocolate ice cream …..
Miss Bianca
@taumaturgo: Oh, fuck off, you wizened umbilical stump.
SWMBO
@West of the Rockies: Yes.
My daughter and others I have observed, get more difficult as they try to break free. Boys are encouraged to be independent from an early age and have coaches and others to mentor them into an independent adulthood. It’s expected for them. A lot of girls don’t get this encouragement. This is true for their friends as well who are also trying to break free. It’s a challenge for parents who are close to become the person that gets ripped loose from their formerly close position.
Give her time and space. She can go knowing you will be there for her. And suddenly, a few years later, she will show up and it will be like the distance is gone. Patience is called for. I am not saying it will be easy. It is doable and worth it.
Ian
@taumaturgo:
I want to make sure I understand you when you say
That’s us right? and..
I’m not sure I agree with you assertion that we created the last boogieman or that we got trashed in this election. We certainly could and should have done better, but 2 outta 3 in congress and presidency is not too bad.
I think you are being snarky here, and think they should run on that label. Not really sure that calling ourselves progressives/ socialists/ communists/ whateverists is as important as accomplishing some of these goals, but the only person I’ve seen freaking out about the socialist label on the left is Spanberger. YMMV, but I think the Dem senators are going to try to pass what they can, which when Mitch McConnell, our bestest of besties, controls the Senate and what comes to the floor, is going to be pretty slim. So get your sad face out, conservative democratic legislation might be the shit sandwich of the day .
We haven’t moved on from the nebulous “center right thing” that I assume you were using to talk about all democratic/ progressives you don’t agree with, but the only ones I see doing intra-party bashing at the moment are this new generation of leaders.
Ruckus
@Nutmeg again:
We all make mistakes and have successes finishing growing up, just like being a kid, or an adult. We are human. Expecting more or even far worse, less, of your own kids is a real problem. Also expecting them to be you is wrong. They are and should be considered as individuals. You can be mad at them, glad for them, wonder as to their accomplishments, delight in their positive responses, hope for better in their negative ones but you always have to remember that they are human and they are not you. Their desires are not your’s to play with or against. You want the best for them but the reality is that they may never see that. You teach them good and reality and humanity and you help them when they need it if you can, but mostly you let them go and live their lives. My parents did most of that but mom could never actually let go and believe that her kids could live the lives they wanted, even after decades of us proving that to be the case. I had a step daughter for a while and I did everything I could to follow the above and I’m comfortable that I did far more good than not. But no, it is not easy. Rewarding yes, easy, no.
topclimber
@Ian: Can we all stop rising to T’s bait and talk about what the actual leaders of the leftier branch of our coalition say? Didn’t AOC have in-depth interviews this weekend?
At the risk of triggering the too-many folks here who equate her with Bernie, I would like a BJ analysis of where she is coming from.
gwangung
@topclimber: They are not the enemy. AOC and her group are part of the coalition that defeated Trump. And Biden needed every single vote the coalition brought.
And that means he cannot shrug off ANY part of that coalition.
A problem….but one I’ll gladly take.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
delusional, narcissistic and high high high on her own supply? Pretty much
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
Tomato will never be able to make a point with numerical data as long as they don’t understand the data well enough to describe it in their comments. Which they do not at this point, at all.
Describe the data, I mean, in case that wasn’t clear.
J R in WV
@West of the Rockies:
I’m a childless old guy,, but when I was 19, I wanted to leave home.
Then I got a draft notice, and enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the Army or Marines in 1970. So I was flat gone.
I was really glad to get back home after that experience, even though I continued to separate from my folks by moving away 90 by about a 90 minute drive, which seemed far enough to us at that time. My folks were loving and supportive, but were also Republicans, which I am so not. Long-haired hippy speaking here. Wife was a labor organizer as well, which was so foreign to my folks.
Anyways, I’m agreeing with everyone who thinks your offspring is normal and won’t separate by a huge distance or a long time. Chill out dad, in other words. And Best wishes for the youngster and you!
Sally
@Immanentize: Ha! I always say to my friends: We bring our kids up to be strong minded and independent, then get upset when they are!
Benno
@West of the Rockies: wanted to second Debbie and morzer. My daughter was also raised by academics, also identifies as queer, also started a long distance relationship with a person bearing a non-normative queer identity …also in Chicago….did I write this in a fugue state last night? She started pulling away a couple of years ago. It hurts after having been so close for her entire life, but after years of your support she knows you’re there if she needs you. Your relationship will change, but it won’t go away.