Michael Osterholm, a renowned infectious-disease expert, said on Meet the Press that a "herd immunity" theory reportedly invoked by Dr. Scott Atlas "is the most amazing combination of pixie dust and pseudoscience I've ever seen." https://t.co/35YWuXzZ65
— Axios (@axios) October 18, 2020
Where we’re at: Twitter has removed a tweet (saying masks don’t work) from the president’s coronavirus advisor, Scott Atlas, for violating its rules against sharing false and harmful information about the coronavirus.
— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) October 18, 2020
TRUMP ON THE ATTACK: With 15 days until votes are counted and about 55,000 new COVID cases daily, Pres. Trump is attacking Dr. Fauci, calling him a “disaster” and doctors “idiots,” and warning Joe Biden would listen to them if he wins. @jonkarl reports. https://t.co/9kJ1LuQqt2 pic.twitter.com/Y5tUZ0OqW7
— World News Tonight (@ABCWorldNews) October 20, 2020
The White House is deliberately abandoning millions of Americans to COVID infection. This warning from @ScottGottliebMD confirms it. https://t.co/Cg5qrO5U74 pic.twitter.com/6HNzsLJsZn
— Will Saletan (@saletan) October 19, 2020
To achieve herd immunity through natural infection would mean more Americans killed by Covid in a year than were killed in all of the wars of the 20th century. https://t.co/zdqC1HKWbg
— Dr. Tom Frieden (@DrTomFrieden) October 19, 2020
======
The global total of coronavirus cases has passed 40 million, according to a New York Times database. An average of at least 350,000 new cases a day have been reported over the past week, the highest levels of the pandemic. https://t.co/P62nLdKWjR
— The New York Times (@nytimes) October 19, 2020
AFP graphic looking at countries with the highest #coronavirus death tolls and their respective death rates@AFPgraphics pic.twitter.com/gQA0KcXR73
— AFP news agency (@AFP) October 20, 2020
Why have some countries, particularly in East Asia, crushed the curve while US and Europe lose control over the pandemic?@WHO: because they detect and isolate the infected, track down their contacts, place those contacts in quarantine, and break the chain of transmission? pic.twitter.com/tiX89xbRpD
— Dr. Ali Nouri (@AliNouriPhD) October 19, 2020
The 2nd wave is looking worse than the first, as seen by Europe, now accelerating, led by Czechia. After achieving containment for months.@OurWorldInData pic.twitter.com/7uYnYNoWEN
— Eric Topol (@EricTopol) October 19, 2020
Ireland has closed all ‘non-essential’ retailers and imposed a new lockdown that is expected to put 150,000 people out of work https://t.co/EsiwAA0kKU
— Financial Times (@FinancialTimes) October 20, 2020
German government investing €500m (£452m) to improve ventilation systems in public buildings to help stop spread of coronavirus https://t.co/Z1DSKNH4bY
— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) October 19, 2020
"We are really very close to a tsunami": Belgium opts for a tough approach to contain a surge of COVID-19 cases, imposing a night-time curfew and closing bars and restaurants for a month. https://t.co/l35hUE0iBO
— AP Europe (@AP_Europe) October 19, 2020
Poland turning the National Stadium in Warsaw into a massive #COVID19 field hospital https://t.co/DjGHKcJx96 via @medical_xpress
— delthia ricks ? (@DelthiaRicks) October 19, 2020
VIDEO: Ukraine is struggling to treat COVID-19 patients, with some hospitals getting overwhelmed and running out of money to provide drugs to patients. "We are catastrophically short of doctors," the chief physician at one hospital says. Full story: https://t.co/vncUGJjLPy pic.twitter.com/tqhThNsVui
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 19, 2020
Russia confirmed 15,982 new Covid-19 cases Monday, bringing its official number of cases to 1,415,316 and breaking the country's record for new infectionshttps://t.co/1wwxiGnH4x
— The Moscow Times (@MoscowTimes) October 19, 2020
Moscow will not return to a full coronavirus lockdown like it did in spring as long as residents abide by current restrictions, Mayor Sergei Sobyanin said Monday as new cases continued to risehttps://t.co/UMalau0e9Y
— The Moscow Times (@MoscowTimes) October 19, 2020
Iran recorded 337 coronavirus deaths on Monday, its worst day since the start of the pandemic. Iran emerged early as a global epicenter of the virus and has the worst outbreak in the Middle East with a death toll of more than 30,000. https://t.co/ING5JaoriE
— The Associated Press (@AP) October 19, 2020
Has the coronavirus pandemic peaked in India? https://t.co/25KXsyoZfm
— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) October 19, 2020
Australia evacuates crew from coronavirus infected livestock vessel https://t.co/yhsZYAhBsO pic.twitter.com/CI338sXKaU
— Reuters (@Reuters) October 20, 2020
Coronavirus: Argentina's confirmed cases surpass one million https://t.co/UODc0hNkmG
— BBC News (World) (@BBCWorld) October 20, 2020
Mexico reports 3,699 new coronavirus cases, 171 more deaths https://t.co/u0VzviWNYh pic.twitter.com/x7mR4JuPr4
— Reuters (@Reuters) October 20, 2020
======
Millions more coronavirus rapid tests, but are results being reported? https://t.co/CLhie7MHJ4 via @medical_xpress
— delthia ricks ? (@DelthiaRicks) October 20, 2020
Mouthwashes, oral rinses may inactivate human coronaviruses. Findings from Penn State indicate some of these products might help reduce the viral load, or amount of virus in the mouth after infection and may also reduce the spread of SARSCoV2 https://t.co/0HHKoCPFwX
— delthia ricks ? (@DelthiaRicks) October 20, 2020
NEW @CDCgov :
"CDC strongly recommends approp masks be worn by all passengers & by all personnel operating the conveyance while on public transportation (e.g., airplanes, ships, ferries, trains, subways, buses, taxis, ride-shares) & at transportatn hubs.."https://t.co/zssKT91CyP— Laurie Garrett (@Laurie_Garrett) October 19, 2020
The UK government has signed a contract for the first human challenge studies for the novel coronavirus, in which healthy volunteers are deliberately infected with the virus in a controlled setting, and some receive an experimental vaccine. https://t.co/gmg8ZK9kof
— CNN (@CNN) October 20, 2020
“Meduza” special correspondent Svetlana Reiter volunteered to participate in Russia’s coronavirus vaccine clinical trials. Here’s part two of her diary. https://t.co/9jzrfzvVEF
— Meduza in English (@meduza_en) October 19, 2020
Can an air purifier help protect you from the coronavirus? https://t.co/YDn9IJlt03
— delthia ricks ? (@DelthiaRicks) October 20, 2020
… In a typical home, it may take two to three hours for the air to be exchanged. Using an air purifier can boost that exchange rate up to six exchanges per hour — cleaning the air about every 10 minutes.
That sounds impressive, but before you rush out to buy a purifier for your home, consider your personal circumstances. If you have been staying at home with the same family members and don’t intend to change that, you probably don’t need one. But if someone in your household is an essential worker with a greater chance for exposure or your school-age children are back to in-person learning, you might consider investing in a purifier unit.
The two experts are not advising that you rely on purifiers to entertain company. “Having people into your home for a meal or perhaps staying several days is a big concern as the holidays approach,” Corsi says. “Some may have been exposed; others don’t even know that they are infected.” They emphasize that people should not cease wearing a mask or washing their hands just because they have a purifier. “Don’t let your guard down. A purifier may lower the level of particles in the air, but it doesn’t eliminate the risk,” Corsi says…
======
We tracked down 64 passengers who were allowed back into the U.S. without quarantining from a European cruise ship that had a COVID outbreak. Of those 64, 45 said they tested positive for COVID soon after returning to the United States. https://t.co/mKKRRDQAz3 pic.twitter.com/TYpdiQYy0x
— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) October 18, 2020
Wear a mask pic.twitter.com/mLom3yyNrC
— John G. Murphy (@JGodiasMurphy) October 19, 2020
Hard-earned kudos for California:
California is the size of a country. It turned its #Covid19 outbreak around. Could other states battle back too? A thread. https://t.co/0ij3vCydG2
— Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell) October 19, 2020
OzarkHillbilly
No matter what, we are stuck with this blithering idiotic asshole until January 20. WASF.
OzarkHillbilly
“No matter how inadequate those measures may be.”
YY_Sima Qian
Yesterday, China reported 0 new domestic confirmed cases and 0 new domestic asymptomatic cases.
Yesterday, China reported 19 new imported confirmed cases and 24 imported asymptomatic cases and 3 imported suspect cases:
* Shanghai Municipality – 5 confirmed cases, 1 Chinese national each returning from Ethiopia, the Maldives (via Sri Lank) and Spain, 1 Egyptian national coming from Egypt (via Vienna), and a US national coming from the States; 3 suspect cases, no information released
* Guangzhou in Guangdong Province – 5 confirmed cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from Pakistan and Kyrgyzstan, and 1 from Nigeria; 6 asymptomatic cases, 2 Chinese nationals returning from Nepal, and 1 each from the UAE, Egypt, Oman and Turkey
* Qingyuan in Guangdong Province – 4 asymptomatic cases, 3 Chinese nationals returning from the UAE and 1 from Ethiopia
* Chengdu at Sichuan Province – 3 confirmed cases (1 previously asymptomatic), 2 Chinese nationals returning from Cambodia and 1 from Nepal; 7 asymptomatic cases, 3 Chinese nationals returning from Qatar, 2 from the Netherlands and 1 each from Egypt and Malaysia
* Tianjin Municipality – 2 confirmed cases, a Chinese national returning from Spain and an Ukrainian national coming from the Ukraine (via Warsaw); 2 asymptomatic cases, both Chinese nationals returning from Spain
* Chongqing Municipality – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Nepal
* Beijing Municipality – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Jordan (via Turkey and Denmark)
* Nanjing in Jiangsu Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Italy; 4 asymptomatic cases, no information released
* Xiamen in Fujian Province – 1 confirmed case, a Chinese national returning from Russia; 1 asymptomatic case, a Chinese national returning from the US
Today, Hong Kong reported 5 new cases, 1 from local transmission, source of transmission unidentified.
Splitting Image
A saner press would be reporting that Trump is endorsing Joe Biden here.
A saner voting public would not need to be told this.
OzarkHillbilly
@Splitting Image:
David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch
Trump now recommends leaches and blood letting to solve Covid.
Mary G
Very proud of my state. The good numbers come from the governor and the state health officer (the second one; the first one, a woman, resigned after the usual bullying and threatening from MAGAts) learning from mistakes.
They closed all the beaches except most of Orange County, so all the Memorial Day & June protests flocked here, plus people from as far away as Arizona, because beaches are kind of the churches of SoCal. It was our super spreader event, people caught Covid, went back home and gave it to their communities.
The governor saw that and consulted with the counties, and everyone agreed to open beaches with masks and distancing. There’s lots of sun and wind on the beach, so it makes sense to keep them open. Most trails are open except the ones that are so popular they are packed.
Bars were closed and still are for inside seating. Periodt. I don’t understand other cities and states saying bars can be open, but only until 9 or 10 pm. The virus isn’t some night owl.
They set up rules with two objective measurements:
Daily New Cases (per 100k)** (7-day average w/ 7-day lag)
and
Positive Tests (7-day average w/ 7-day lag)
Tier 1 WIDESPREAD
>7 new daily cases (per 100k) >8% positive tests
Tier 2 SUBSTANTIAL
4 – 7 new daily cases (per 100k) 5 – 8% positive tests
Tier 3 MODERATE
1 – 3.9 new daily cases (per 100k) 2 – 4.9% positive tests
Tier 4 MINIMAL
<1 new daily cases (per 100k) <2% positive tests
CDPH will assess indicators weekly. The first weekly assessment will be released on September 8, 2020.
A county will remain in a tier for a minimum of three weeks before being able to advance to a later tier.
A county can only move forward one tier at a time, even if metrics qualify for a more advanced tier.
If a county's case rate and test positivity measure fall into two different tiers, the county will be assigned to the more restrictive tier.
All these have to consist of PCR tests only; the less reliable rapid tests like the WH used are given, but the results aren't counted for the above.
They've found a consistent supply of tests somewhere, so we are always just right around the number that the CDC says we should be using. We just passed 1 million PCR tests in the OC alone. We've been stuck on Tier 2 for a long time, because getting new cases per 100,000 people down below 3.9 is a bitch. We are currently at 4.6. Our daily percent of positive tests is 3.5, so we're already eligible for tier 3 on that side.
These are minimums, some cities have passed more restrictive numbers and passed municipal fines for not wearing a mask indoors. People accept sterner measures from people they can yell at in person. City council meetings have been loud.
There's been a pretty good majority of society here who have accepted the rules and will confront people indoors who aren't wearing masks so the store clerks don't get the shit. Almost nobody wears a mask outside if it isn't crowded.
Small counties with sparse populations who hate government have had low numbers unless they have meat packing plants, so they just are left alone to do what they want as long as they don't spike.
It doesn't hurt that Trump is very unpopular here, and that our mild weather allows us the option to do a lot outside. The schools are starting to reopen, but very carefully. The teen has been attending his Zoom classes, but not doing the homework and the school called his mom wanting to have him come in to be in a class of at most ten students in person two days a week. She isn't comfortable with that, and they said OK, try to get him to do the work. He got a job washing dishes for the restaurant on the pier which has always been mostly outside, and he is making $14/hour and loves having his own money, with checking and savings accounts, and an ATM card. She's told him she'll make him quit if he doesn't do his work, and she talked to his boss who is on the same page, so we're hopeful.
Splitting Image
@OzarkHillbilly:
I confess that I was a little worried about Biden’s ability to run an effective campaign back in primary season, but he’s got this.
I still hate the way Twitter has become so central to political discourse, but if that’s where Trump wants to have his fights, that’s where you go and beat him. Biden’s tweet game this year has been A+.
OzarkHillbilly
I think the reasoning is that as the night wears on and people have “just one more”, they become ever less socially inhibited and therefor more likely to ignore social distancing, etc.
ETA: for you @Mary G:
OzarkHillbilly
@Splitting Image: Joe is good at this campaigning stuff.
ETA: and he seems to have definitely caught his 2nd wind.
WereBear
@Splitting Image: As long as we have a corporate press seen as the arbiter of public discourse, it won’t be sane.
Turns out, making people accept low wages and high prices is so profitable.
NotMax
Le sigh.
Amir Khalid
Malaysia’s daily Covid-19 numbers. DG of Health Dr Noor Hisham Abdullah reports 862 new cases today for a cumulative reported total of 22,225 cases. He also reports three new deaths for a total of 193 deaths — 0.87% of the cumulative reported total, 1.33% of resolved cases. And there is a new cluster in Sabah, the Kertang cluster in Kota Belud, Sabah.
860 of the new cases are from local infection. Sabah alone has 78% of this number, 673 cases: 260 in existing clusters, 243 close-contact screenings, two in the Kertang cluster, and 68 in other Covid-19 screenings. Selangor has 132 cases: 84 in existing clusters, 32 close-contact screenings, two persons back from high-risk zones in Sabah, and 12 in other Covid-19 screenings. Kedah has 17 cases: 15 in existing clusters, one close-contact screening, and one person with severe acute respiratory illness. Perak has nine cases: eight in existing clusters, and one in other Covid-19 screening. Penang has eight cases, all in existing clusters.
Labuan has six cases; two in existing clusters, two persons back from high-risk zones in Sabah, one close-contact screening, and one in other Covid-19 screening. Negeri Sembilan has six cases: two in existing clusters, two close-contact screenings, and two in other Covid-19 screenings. KL has six cases: four in existing clusters, one close-contact screening, and one in other Covid-19 screening. Putrajaya has one case in an existing cluster. Johore also has one case in an existing cluster. And Kelantan has one case, a close-contact screening.
Two new cases are imported: one arrival from Egypt reported in KL, and one arrival from Indonesia reported in Sarawak.
634 more patients recovered and were discharged, for a total of 14,351 patients recovered — 64.57% of the cumulative reported total. 7,681 active and contagious cases are currently in hospital; 95 are in ICU, of whom 29 are on respirators.
The three deaths reported today, all in Sabah, are a 78-year-old man with hypertension, dyslipidæmia, and heart disease; a 59-year-old woman with hypertension, diabetes, and chronic kidney disease; and a 90-year-old woman with hypertension and heart disease.
Dr Noor Hisham says the field hospitals set up in Kedah and Sabah by his ministry and the Armed Forces are already up and running.
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
The good news is, Trump finally understands that it’s a bad idea to mess with Dr Fauci, who has the non-MAGA public on his side.
Mary G
@OzarkHillbilly: But you can’t wear a mask while you’re drinking, and bars are usually loud, with people shouting over music, which is just ideal for the virus. I’m unfamiliar with bars, being sober for 30 years, so I am open to being wrong.
Jay
@Mary G:
Not wrong
YY_Sima Qian
Guangzhou Municipal Health Commission just reported the epidemiological investigation into the asymptomatic case among the staff at a quarantine hotel. Apparently the worker failed to wear proper PPE (did not wear gloves and shoes covers, Tyvek suit not zipped all the way, and only wore a mask properly), and had extended interaction with one of the guests at the quarantine hotel that later turned out to be a confirmed case.
It seems rather a low probability event. On the other hand, the case is still asymptomatic, and was only found via regular screening of all staff at quarantine facilities. Perhaps he received a relatively small viral innoculum. There are hundreds of quarantine hotels across China, with tens of thousands of staff, not all of whom wear their PPEs (or take then off) properly all the time, this is the first instance I an aware of a staff getting infected. So, it is a low probability event, after all.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@OzarkHillbilly: Probably afterwards too. I am sure he will just transition into a 2024 run and fly around around, doing more super spreader rallies and telling his fans to even more dumber things.
Sloane Ranger
Yesterday in the UK we had 18,804 new cases, up by about 2000 from the day before. The overall total of cases for the UK now stands at 741,212. The new cases are distributed as follows,
England – 16,365 (up by @1500)
Northern Ireland – 820 (down @125)
Scotland – 993 (up by @700)
Wales – 626 (down by @300).
The massive increase in Scotland is probably attributable to the delay in processing tests Robert Sneddon talked about yesterday, so the proper comparison would be with Saturday’s figure, which was 1167. So, slightly over 150 less and trending down.
Deaths – 80 deaths yesterday. 13 more than the day before but still in double figures. Deaths distributed by nations: 72 in England, 6 in Northern Ireland, and 1 each for Scotland and Wales. The most recent figures I can find for deaths with COVID on the death certificate are for w/e 2nd October where it was 343 and trending upwards.
Testing – 306,893 PCR tests processed out of a capacity of 330,370.
Hospitalisations – 988 people were admitted to hospitals in the UK on Thursday, 15th October making a total of 5608 actually in hospital, of which 592 were on ventilators on Friday, 16th. All figures trending upwards.
General – The North West has now broken the 2000 cases per 100,000 of population barrier. The deadline for Manchester to accept entering Tier 3 has now passed. Boris is due to hold a press conference at 5pm today. I would assume he will impose Tier 3 at this point, if not before. Also, Health Secretary, Matt Hancock was seen in a chauffeur driven car without a face mask, contrary to the government’s own guidelines and Wales’ 2 week lockdown will start on Friday.
Obdurodon
I remember musing about CPC (cetylpyridinium chloride, mouthwash ingredient) way back when this pandemic first started. I quickly found articles *then* about its potency against both flu and other coronaviruses. It’s in the family of quaternary ammonium compounds, which act as detergents to strip the virus of its envelope and make it vulnerable to breakdown. DQC (dequalinium chloride) is another member of the same family (quaternary ammonium compounds), and is available in lozenge form. I occasionally use one when I’m feeling particularly exposed, as I likely will if I go to vote today because that will mean being in enclosed spaces for longer than I’d like. Unfortunately they’re not available domestically in the US; I had to order mine (brand name Dequadin) from Canada.
Considering that all of this information was available in March at least, it’s a bit sad that results have only been hitting the media in the past week. Better late than never, I guess. Still, why *not* use CPC mouthwash? Povidone or peroxide work similarly, but IMO both taste nastier. Like vitamin D supplements, a viricidal mouthwash is probably something many people should have been using anyway. Worst thing that happens is you “only” improve your general oral health. Anything that advertises a “99% kill rate” is probably CPC, but check the back label to be sure.
Robert Sneddon
@Obdurodon:
SARS-COV-2 infects people through the respiratory tract so if this stuff you’re promoting is so good all you need to do is swallow it, irrigate your nasal passages with it and aspirate it into your lungs for it to be an effective treatment against COVID-19. Riiiight.
There’s a shitload of chemicals that will destroy any viruses in-vitro, there’s a bunch of drugs that work really well against coronaviruses in cell cultures and mice and other lab animals but they don’t do bupkis in human beings or they’re more dangerous than the disease (bleach, anyone?).
We’ve already had vitamin D plus zinc touted as a cureall, we still get hydroxychloroquine boosters and essential oils and Himalayan salt and even weirder guaranteed treatments (drinking cow urine, anyone?) promoted on the internets, please don’t invent new snake-oil nostrums to fill in the gaps.
Oh, and before you say “It’s just what I read, I’m just putting it out there for discussion”, don’t. Instead stay at home, wash your hands, maintain social distancing and if you absolutely must be around other people wear a properly-fitted good-quality mask and hope.
DCA
But…,but… Dr. Atlas LOOKS like the stern-but-kindly, infinitely knowing, head of medicine at the large hospital where [fill in medical TV series here] is set.
StringOnAStick
@Robert Sneddon: Dental offices have been requiring a 2 minute rinse with a CPC product since they reopened, at least the science based offices have. Dentists trend R, so if you go to your dentist and they don’t require it, that’s a strong hint about their politics, which is insane because one thing is science, and the other is RW BS.
Low D levels are fairly common, and too low has health impacts, including risk of MI. At one point mine for down to 12, at which point I had chronic vertigo and getting lower than that is a very define MI risk; low D levels are implicated in greater susceptibility to viral infection (my ENT, GP, and gyno all confirmed this when I asked). Note that I am outside in a very sunny state much more than the average person and most D is obtained from food, not from sun exposure. Vitamin D is more than just a vitamin, it is a prohormone, meaning it is a “scaffolding” for production of certain hormones. Without adequate D, you can’t utilize calcium properly, and the electrical system of the heart depends on calcium channels for muscle contraction/action. That’s just one of many, many things important about D. When I presented to my gyno as having “soul crushing exhaustion” , her immediate response was “we need to check your D level”; my cousin the internist confirms that he checks D in every patient complaining of persistent tiredness, because that test is not considered to be part of your annual physical because insurance companies are not yet willing to make it be so and it’s $40.
Some of the other things in your list are definitely part of the pseudoscience BS that floats around when people are scared; D levels are critical to general health and should not be tossed out in the same bathwater as the cow urine BS.
Robert Sneddon
@StringOnAStick: The problem with touting, say, vitamin D as a good thing isn’t that it’s bad for you, it’s the claims of absolute efficacy of super-doses of vitamin D supplements to prevent SARS-COV-2 virus infections that I find both exasperating and dangerously inaccurate. “I’m taking 50,000 IU of vitamin D every day! This virus will just bounce off me! I don’t need to socially distance, I’m immune and so’s my little dog! Let’s go watch some college football!” Uh no.
We’ve been though this before, decades of claims that megadoses of vitamin C could cure cancer, baldness, socialism and everything else in the medical calendar. Eminent Nobel-Prize-winning scientists (Linus Pauling cough cough) said it worked, who are we mere mortals to disagree? Vit C by the gram is still a thing in the woo-woo brigade, aided and abetted by Big Supplement and I’m seeing the same sort of fails-to-meet-expectations-when-tested results for vitamin D w.r.t. COVID-19 despite the endless internet bullshittery and goalpost-shifting (of course you need to take it with zinc, and have your chakras aligned and a dusting of Himalayan salt will increase its efficacy and and and…)
We all want a teevee medical drama cure from nowhere for this pandemic disease, done and dusted in 45 minutes excluding commercials. Sadly for respiratory viruses there’s no magic bullet cure, no equivalent of antibiotics (since viruses aren’t alive, basically). Stay healthy, socially distance, wear a good-fitting mask, don’t be stupid and it’s likely you’ll not catch this disease. That’s all we got, really until vaccines are available.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Robert Sneddon: Friend of mine has Covid and she’s been taking vitimine C and D on her doctors advice it seems to have helped her, but hardly a cure all.
Robert Sneddon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: The plural of anecdote is not data. Glad your acquaintance is getting better but it’s not a real indicator that vitamin supplements are doing the heavy lifting in their case. Get back to me when double-blind placebo tests of a million cases result in something statistically significant and then I’ll sit up.
People don’t want to hear what does not affirm their deeply-held beliefs or even contradict them so they rail against organisations like the WHO which don’t immediately pronounce vitamin supplements and hydroxychloroquine and (insert woo-woo of the week) as the CURE! for this disease. Why doesn’t this work like in the movies, where a brave contrarian goes up against the expensively-suited Entrenched Interests, dodging hitmen and surviving explosions to singlehandedly develop a cure from his/her own blood in the last thirty minutes before the credit roll? Has Hollywood been LYING to us all these years?
charon
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
He will not keep that up for long, his senile dementia is progressing, you see how crazier and crazier he is getting.
charon
@Robert Sneddon:
Actually there is a lot of data out there correlating low vitamin D with susceptibility and worse outcomes with COVID.
Obdurodon
@Robert Sneddon: Sheesh, strawman much? You seem to have concluded that I’m saying “take these pills and you don’t have to wear a mask” or something equally ridiculous. My record indicates otherwise, so put your manufactured outrage back in the can.
What you might be missing is that the respiratory tract goes *through the throat*. Things that kill germs and are swallowed can have an effect there. It might be far from the most effective thing you can do, but beating this pandemic is all about many layers of defense. Also, just because CPC is currently only used orally, that doesn’t preclude other uses. Benzalkonium chloride is another QAC, already used as a preservative in all sorts of products *including nasal inhalants*. Unlike drinking bleach (for example) exploring possible safe and effective uses of QACs is scientifically reasonable.
Obdurodon
To be clear, because I know someone might jump all over it, I know you don’t (directly) swallow mouthwash. However, whatever’s in mouthwash gets swallowed with saliva. Also, people do breathe through their mouth sometimes, especially during exercise. I’d be surprised if anyone who does exercise doesn’t realize that.
Also, when I’ve been to a dentist and an oral surgeon during this pandemic, they had me rinse with a peroxide solution rather than CPC. Blech. Hate that taste. And no, they didn’t do that before the pandemic, so it’s a specific rather than general precaution. The point remains that there *is* science behind additives to oral rinses as a protective measure against COVID-19. I know we all hate some of the pseudoscience and miracle cures, but none of us should be so eager to be The Great Debunker that we attack science as well. It’s important to make distinctions based on evidence plus knowledge of how things like chemicals and human bodies work. Jerking one’s knee in either direction is Not Helpful.
Robert Sneddon
@Obdurodon: SARS-COV-2, like most other respiratory viruses ends up in the lungs where it replicates in cells. The resultant viral particles are expectorated and breathed out, passing through the mouth and nasal passages in an instant. Drugs and chemical treatments restricted to those areas of the body are going to do very little to nothing at all to prevent inhalation of the original viral load into the lungs or prevent any outgoing infectious materials to any great extent.
Rhinoviruses like the “common cold” usually establish themselves in the nose (hence “rhino”). If lung infections like bronchitis occur they are usually opportunistic rather than a consequence of the original infection, hence topical treatments like mouthwashes and nasal irrigants can help a little although the woo-woo brigade has established a beachhead even there with neti pots et al. SARS-COV-2 is not a rhinovirus though. Sneezing is one of the things missing from the major symptoms list for COVID-19. Saying that the loss of sense of smell and taste is on that list but usually some time after other symptoms have made themselves obvious.
D Gardner
@Mary G: Congratulations to you – I’m at nearly 14 years, and I know the struggle. I also appreciate your many thoughtful remarks on this site.