This is the a post for anyone who wants to talk about this year’s Florida Amendments.
The intention is to provide a jumping off point for discussion, and a place for BJ folks to share their views, not to suggest to anyone how they should vote.
Anonymous at Work asked for this one for Florida, and graciously agreed to share his views to get us started. There are 6 this year, so there’s quite a bit of ground to cover.
Anonymous at Work
Disclaimer: I’m a transplanted Florida resident of now 6 years (I chanted “One of us! One of us!” when I got my driver’s license changed). I am a non-practicing attorney with a background in regulatory law and an interest in politics but not so much in local/state politics. Around election time, I pay some attention and do some extra reading on ballot initiatives and the like. While observing professional dystopian governance and ratf*cking in Washington State, I started emailing friends and family before elections, if they wanted my opinion. That said, I have a day job, and am not up on a few details this year.
For those unaware, ballot propositions in Florida require 60% to pass and can either be popular, referred or put on the ballot by a Constitutional Revision Panel, which recommends changes to the state Constitution every 20 years. A good idea except that it gave us such chestnuts in 2018 as “Allowing offshore oil drilling or we’ll ban indoor vaping.” The group in 2018 was entirely Republican. Restoring voting rights to ex-felons was due to voter initiative and a major shocker.
This year we have six Amendments, four from voters and two from the Legislature. In a decidedly non-Floridian manner, they are labeled Amendment 1, Amendment 2, Amendment 3, etc, and none directly involve alligators. I have a pretty clear idea about 3 of them but one of the voter initiatives and the 2 Legislature Amendments have me nervous that I’m missing something.
For my sources, I primarily used the following:
…..
Amendment 1: Immigrants that aren’t citizens can’t do citizen-things like vote
Citizen Requirement for Voting Initiative
Legislative Summary: Amends Section 2 of Article VI of the Florida Constitution to state that only citizens of the US that are 18 years old or older are qualified electors in Florida
Pros: Reaffirms that non-citizens can’t do things limited to citizens, primarily vote.
Cons: This doesn’t change anything but it is entirely symbolic of xenophobia and/or racism.
League of Women Voters: No.
My rec on #1: No, spitting optional. This Amendment has absolutely no effect and the League of Women Voters came out against it for that reason. The only reason to make this difference is to reaffirm xenophobia and racism.
…..
Amendment 2: $15 Minimum Wage by 2026
$15 Minimum Wage Initiative
Legislative Summary: Raises minimum wage to $10.00 per hour effective September 30th, 2021. Each September 30th thereafter, the minimum wage shall increase by $1.00 per hour until the minimum wage reaches $15.00 per hour on September 30th, 2026. From that point forward, future minimum wage increases shall revert to being adjusted annual for inflation starting September 30th, 2027.
Pros: While it’s not close to a living wage for much of Miami, it’s a sight better than the current $8.46 currently. It also ties future automatic increases to “inflation” to prevent stagnation, although Florida has a set formula that increases the wage (but at a significantly slower pace).
Cons: Anyone else hear alarm bells go off with “inflation” and with the term generally “minimum wage”? Me too. What counts as “inflation” is left undefined and could be short-circuited by the Legislature, especially since Florida is under one-party rule and gerrymandered heavily. Florida exempts tipped employees but their gross tips still have to add up to current minimum wage. Same with full-time HS or College students and for 90 days after new employment for those under 20 (i.e. training wage). The pace, as mentioned is glacial and wouldn’t result in a livable wage at any time. Finally, I do worry that a future (all-Republican) state Supreme Court could interpret the Amendment as “locking in” a minimum wage to $15.00 per hour plus whatever “inflation rate” the Republican Legislature deems appropriate.
League of Women Voters: Yes.
My rec on #2: YES. Half a loaf is a good start. Also, seems sure to pass given the disparity in funding ($4.7 million by supporters vs. $400k by opponents), and the fact that Chamber of Commerce has been silent on this one.
…..
Amendment 3: Jungle (Boogie) Primaries
Top-Two Open Primaries for State Offices Initiative
Legislative Summary: Allows all registered voters to vote in primaries for state legislature, governor, and cabinet regardless of political party affiliation. All candidates for an office, including party nominated candaidates, appear on the same primary ballot. Two highest vote getters advance to general election. If only two candidates qualify, no primary is held and winner is determined in general election. Candidate’s party affiliation may appear on ballot as provided by law. Effective January 1, 2024.
Quick Note: “As provided by law” is necessarily vague. The change is to the state Constitution and not the underlying statutes that govern the conduct of elections. Florida had nine officially recognized political parties able to hold their own closed primaries (exception for primaries with only one party of two candidates; those were open).
Pros: Jungle primaries are a big deal some places, like Washington State. I am generally supportive of them as giving better options in a general election rather than moving the fight to the (lower-turnout, fanatic-dominated) primaries. For a formerly closed-primary state, it offers some voting power at the state level to the minority party, especially for a highly packed-and-crack state like Florida.
Cons: Minority representation would be a problem, which is the leading argument by the League of Women Voters. Both political parties are against it, for valid reasons that it would weaken their ability to identify preferred candidates and manage internal business. Despite claims otherwise, it wouldn’t eliminate ratf*cking by third party general ballot candidates (Privet, Comrade Stein!) but allow for self-designated candidates to dilute, divide and deceive voters during the primary.
League of Women Voters: No.
My rec on #3: A very soft “No”? This Amendment has good arguments for and against it. The organizations lining up against it are a who’s-who of organizations, both for good and evil. The supporters are two single-issue advocacy groups and a CEO of an investment firm whose statement reads like bad High Broderism with many paeans to centricism and “both sides” and the holiness of “registered independents”.
My personal voting preference is for ranked choice, like in Maine. Voting reform, if done badly, is a major step backwards.
This is the one voter initiative where I wonder, “Did I miss anything?”
…..
Amendment 4: Double-secret probation for voter initiatives
Voter Approval of Constitutional Amendments
Legislative Summary: Requires all proposed amendments or revisions to the state constitution to be approved by voters in two elections, instead of one, in order to take effect. The proposal applies the current thresholds of passage to each of the two elections.
Quick Note: Florida’s threshold is 60%, so already a super-majority.
Pros: Direct democracy has a decidedly mixed history both in state and in the nation (*waves at California*) and there are some true stinkers being submitted and taken up (See Amendment 1 above) for, let’s be generous and say, “whimsical” causes. Florida already has a super-majority requirement about which I am uncertain.
Cons: If you are going to have a ballot initiative process at any level with any entry method AND require a super-majority, you can pick between “run twice” and “super-majority” but not both without being hypocritical. Additionally, this won’t stop “whimsical” ratf*cking initiatives that are both deceptive to common voters and backed by the Legislature. This Amendment is solely to prevent another Felony Restoration amendment from ever passing, again.
League of Women Voters: No.
My rec on #4: The hardest of “No”s possible. Additional steps towards supporters, such as raspberries, rude gestures, pressed hams, and unwrapped hams are optional, while flaming bags of (hopefully) pet poo might be illegal in your community. The unexpected restoration of voting rights to felons, before the Republican Legislature hijacked it into a poll tax, left Republicans terrified. This is the reaction.
…..
Amendment 5: Bigger window for homestead exemption (Save Our Homes) transfer
Limitations on Homestead Property Tax Assessments; increased portability period to transfer accrued benefits
Legislative Summary: Proposing Amendment to the state Constitution, effective January 1, 2021, to increase, from 2 years to 3 years, the period of time during which accured Save-Our-Homes benefits may be transferred from a prior homestead to a new homestead.
Pros: Legislative Amendment passed unanimously by both chambers. Current system appears to go from sale to next January 1st as “one year” and the next January 1st as “two years” for purposes of keeping a homestead exemption. Timing could matter, as could setbacks if a person is either building a new home or between houses for another reason.
Cons: Costs money that isn’t otherwise replaced. Additionally, this Amendment has hyper-technical changes to the State Constitution to override a hyper-technical provision, rather than take the direct route and repeal the hyper-technical provision to the State Constitution and legislate (and, you know, take responsibility for your actions).
League of Women Voters: No.
My rec on #5: Help? I distrust *this* aspect of direct democracy the most. I can kinda sorta maybe follow the arguments here but my preference is for legislation/regulation to handle these aspects of governance. Putting them in the State Constitution, with a 60% super-majority requirement to change, eligible once every two years, is a bad idea.
BUT, no spending on either side and it passed unanimously. What am I missing?
…..
Amendment 6: We Love Puppies, Key Lime Pies and Veterans (and their spouses and their spouses’ homestead exemptions)
Ad Valorem Tax Discount for Spouses of Certain Deceased Veterans Who Had Permanent, Combat-Related Disabilities
Legislative Summary: Provides that the homestead property tax discount for certain veterans with permanent combat-related disabilities carries over to such veteran’s surviving spouse who holds legal or beneficial title to, and who permanently resides on, the homestead property, until he or she remarries or sells or otherwise disposes of the property. The discount may be transferred to a new homestead property of the surviving spouse under certain conditions. The Amendment takes effect January 1, 2021.
Pros: See Amendment 5 above.
Cons: See Amendment 5 above, but do a few lines of meth of the alligator stripper’s tail (use your imagination).
League of Women Voters: No.
My rec on #6: WTF Florida? This is the same as #5 but smells worse. Much more hyper-technical for a part of the state Constitution, and I am always critical of anything that resembles “We love hugs, puppies, rainbows, and offshore limited liability holding companies” in ballot initiatives. Again, people with deeper knowledge of Florida, what am I missing?
Discuss!
Warren Terra
Open (“Jungle”) Primaries are an incredibly bad idea. There is too much possibility for a freak result in which too many candidates of one party split the vote on their side and so their party doesn’t get a general election candidate, despite having a strong majority of the voters. I don’t *think* that’s come to pass yet in the states that do this, but it’s come close, and it will happen.
Mary G
As a Californian who’s had to live with the massive bad effects of Prop 13 for decades now, I recommend a hard no on Amendment 5. Once you start adding loopholes in, people will use them, and demand more. Probably unanimous because your Dems are afraid that their opponents will kill them on “raising taxes” and/or are owned by lobbyists.
Anonymous At Work
@Warren Terra: Sadly, Georgia might be the first example we’ve seen of that (“Son of Lieberman” running as a “Democrat” should be saved for opening monologue material at the Oscars).
BCHS Class of 1980
In Hillsborough. I voted No on all except the minimum wage. I hate open primaries. They can pick theirs, we’ll pick ours and then the battle is joined. “Independents” can pick a ? side as far as I’m concerned. As far as the tax provisions are concerned, the League of Women Voters has a very high-minded justification involving not having specific tax provisions in a state constitution. My justification was that both amendments were proposed by GOP senators and ? those guys with rusty farm implements.
cope
After online research and conversations with my Bernie delegate daughter (whom I am proud to say drove her Biden/Harris festooned car in a dems parade in Kissimmee on Saturday), it’s a “no” on all but #2, the minimum wage issue for me and my wife.
That said, I never lived where voting on amendments to the state constitution was “a thing” before moving to Florida and I find it disconcerting and a condemnation of our state government that laws have to be snuck in the backdoor this way.
The Moar You Know
I’d like to see us get rid of the jungle primary in CA. Things are swimmingly good with Dem one party rule in the state now, but it’s going to come back and bite us in the ass at some point and I’d prefer not to be locked out of the general election when that happens.
John S.
@BCHS Class of 1980: I’m in Broward. Voting the same way. NO on everything except minimum wage.
Ken
I see now why they took the debates away from the League of Women Voters. From their recommendations, they are obviously a dangerously liberal, maybe even communist, group.
klokanek
These are mainly my votes, already received and counted in Bay County. Nothing to add to what you said about amendments 1, 2, and 4.
Amendment 3: NO. I agree that jungle primaries are the worst. Since the parties pay for primaries, it makes sense that voters in those parties get to choose who makes it to the generals.
Amendment #5: No. It seems to me that 2 years to transfer a homestead property tax reduction is plenty of time. Adding a year reduces local taxes that fund really important and cash-strapped social functions (like education).
Amendment #6: Yes. I confess I was influenced by a friend who’s a vet, but her argument made sense to me: This is a relatively small group of people, and it seems reasonable to support the (mostly) women survivors after their spouses die.
Yutsano
@The Moar You Know: We have jungle primaries in Washington too and I’m still not a fan. It hasn’t been too bad as we’re not quite in one party rule yet. The nomination of Loren Culp* might be one good argument for keeping them? But still not a fan.
*Quick primer: the jungle primary had four or five candidates for governor in Washington. The presumed favourite was Tim Eyman, who had held no political office to speak of but has been bringing up anti-tax initiatives for years now. Instead the Republicans got Culp, who is the sheriff of a tiny town called Republic in Eastern Washington. The biggest thing you need to know is Republic passed a “sanctuary city” law to protect ammosexuals from any state or federal gun restrictions. He pretty much has no chance other than getting the rabid Republicans over here slightly excited.
catclub
@Mary G: I think a simple: “Repeal prop 13” should pass in California.
Betty Cracker
I’m no on everything but #2. I also have a warning for Florida voter-by-mail people: the 100% humidity sealed my official return envelope shut, so now I’m debating whether to try to steam it open and use it so I can drop it off at the county drop box or take it to the polls on the first day of early voting and vote in person instead (in my county, that is an option). It has to be in that envelope, or it doesn’t count if you vote by mail, whether using the drop box or the post office.
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
I’ve never voted by mail before, so I have no idea if this is something that happens a lot or is a special hurdle cooked up by Republican operatives. Fucksake.
Faithful Lurker
@Yutsano: I’m in Jefferson County, far western WA. It’s pretty solid blue but there are an astounding amount of Culp signs and support here. The Culp supporters were parking their huge trucks in front of the Jeff. Co. Democratic headquarters in order to block any traffic into their office. (I keep typing his name as Cult. Wonder why?) So I’m a little worried about waking up and finding Culp our gov. He makes Trump look good. I find jungle primaries a very bad idea.
WhatsMyNym
Jungle Primaries are terrible, unless you like one party rule. Results of this years WA primaries have only Democratic candidates running for WA-10, and Lt. Governor. I didn’t bother checking the state legislation.
Wayne
#3: Since this could result in having (2) of the same party on the final vote, NO, we would always have republicans here.
#5: This does not seem like a big deal to me. An extra year to transfer for portablility (which I have reaped the benefits but think it was bad from the get go) seems OK. It helps the person selling late in a year by giving them extra time. Why not just give you 2 years from date of sale of residence? I don’t understand the con of it costing money.
Florida Frog
Concur on all counts and voted accordingly (already counted according to the SOE’s office). I was jungle primary-curious but the League of Women Voters Argument persuaded me to vote no. Big no on Amendments five and six. The increase in the minimum wage is disappointing but let’s start there and build on it.
WhatsMyNym
@Faithful Lurker: I live there too!
Most of the parking is behind and it’s private property, so they can call police if they try to block that.
Eta: I’ve seen very few GOP related signs compared to 2016.
Anonymous At Work
@Yutsano: I remember Tim Eyman. I hate Tim Eyman. He’s everything wrong with ballot initiatives. The only possible problem I would have with him not being in a general election is lose of time and attention spent on his decades of outside-funded ratf*cking, and maybe that he would be too busy running for office to ratf*cking the state government.
He’s what got me interested in this topic.
artem1s
No on all. None of these are constitutional issues. They are legislative issues. I really hate this type of bypassing of the state legislature to get daily stuff done. Do they override those municipalities that have already settled these issues? Sounds like FL (and most of the other 50 states) needs to look at their constitutional qualifications for running for state office. This is why term limits are a bad idea too. No one learns how to do their jobs and has enough time to get anything done even if you are qualified to do the job in the first place.
Also, we need a new voting rights act restored immediately. No state should be fucking with their voting laws without a full review by a federal level body. We have 49 too many sets of rules on voting already in this country. What is true for VT or OH or FL should be true for the other 50 states. Time for all states and territories to align with one minimum federal standard.
Wyatt Salamanca
Per MSNBC Trumpy leaving WR today at 6:30, Fuck him.
Mary G
It’s going great:
John Revolta
I saw a quote from this Culp clown where he said “The trouble with Democracy is it leads to Socialism…..ask Mao or Stalin, they loved Democracy”. What exactly is he proposing instead? “Elect me so I can do away with elections?”
catclub
Especially it seems to take advantage of the not very competent Florida democratic party.
catclub
Grim reaper may end up doing the harvesting.
Faithful Lurker
@WhatsMyNym: I live in Chimacum and the Culp signs are everywhere. Are you in PT? I saw that the Dems called the police and they (the police) said they couldn’t do anything. Don’t know the ins and outs of it. There have been some funny hand made signs, one said-Dump and Putin, 2020, on SR20.
Faithful Lurker
@John Revolta: Yes. He is a believer in that group that thinks that only county sheriffs have any legal authority. Are they the 3 per centers? The Bundy family are part of that persuasion.
Anonymous At Work
@artem1s: I am hesitant on minimum wage (tentative yes) for the reason you cite. A lot of this belongs in legislation but the problem turns out that legislators vote on a lot of issues but voting on a legislator is a up/down thing (vote for #1 voter-getter or vote against #1 vote-getter), so issues with broad support that isn’t voters’ #1 voting issue get buried.
And I hate term limits. Lobbyists are hte only continuity in governance; laws are voted on by short-timing, part-timing used car salesmen but written by professional lobbyists. No transparency as a result.
J R in WV
It seems to me that all of these things may be accomplished by a simple law passed by the legislature. Why not do that?
Also, iDJT appears to be bound and determined to resume infecting employees and supporters. No Democratic person should go near this Corona-spreader Trump. A modern-day Typhoid Mary indeed. What a clown, obviously strongly affected by the steroids he was treated with.
These Navy doctors are also clowns to allow this without stating in public that is is deranged for an ill person to check out of the hospital against medical advice. Sad!
John Revolta
@Faithful Lurker: Hoo boy
Faithful Lurker
@John Revolta: Yeah, that’s what I think. It’s going to be a shock for all of Washington State, especially the Seattle folks, if he’s elected. Jungle primaries are not a good idea. True nut jobs have a chance of winning a place on the final ballot.
BCHS Class of 1980
For all its manifold sins, amendments are the only way to pass anything remotely progressive in this benighted state. To paraphrase, it is what it is because we are who we are.
Wayne
@catclub: Exactly.
prufrock
@BCHS Class of 1980: As a lifelong Florida resident who is pushing fifty, I have had lots of opportunities to observe the thinking (or lack thereof) of my fellow citizens. A plurality of them will not hesitate to vote for a progressive amendment, then vote for a politician (usually a Republican, especially over the past twenty-five years) who makes the ballot initiative they just voted for necessary.
And they won’t process what they just did, even if you explain it to them using sock puppets.
Chester
Broward also here. It’s NO on all but the minimum wage one (and that one is disappointing and should not be an amendment. )
PaulWartenberg
I already blogged this.
Link here to my take, thank ye.
Betty Cracker
@prufrock:
The gospel truth.
Anonymous At Work
@Betty Cracker:
WaterGirl
@PaulWartenberg: Looks like you reached different conclusions on some of these than what I am seeing in the comments.
PaulWartenberg
@WaterGirl:
I’m guessing the big difference is on Open (or Jungle) Primaries. My argument in favor is due to me being a No-Party Affiliate, which has me looking outside-in whenever primaries are being held. Thing is, the NPA faction is a sizable and unrepresented voting bloc in Florida (3.5 million of us when I last checked) and our voices deserve a say in the choices we’re getting in the general election.
I understand the fear of having too many candidates from one party overloading one seat challenge, but one problem with closed primaries is that voter turnout for primaries are terrible (barely 25 percent in most places) even when there’s a challenger on hand. As a result, bad candidates – usually hand-picked by the local elites, usually bought out by the PACs funding the campaigns – keep getting “chosen” and no real choices by the voters are made.
I would ask, is Proportional voting a more reliable method of running primaries? Should we be working towards that?
Geminid
@Faithful Lurker: Culp might have gotten a plurality in a republican primary if they had one. One way to avoid nutjobs appearing in general elections is to have primary runoffs. And a runoff might have selected a more liberal candidate than Auchingloss in the Massachusetts district vacated by Joe Kennedy. But Georgia has primary runoffs, and that did not keep Marjory Taylor Greene off the general election ballot in northwest Georgia. I’d want to see how jungle primaries work for a few more years in CA and WA before I back that for my own state. Same with ranked choice voting, which I am already prejudiced against on account of Ralph Nader’s and Jill Stein’s advocacy of it.
Winston
I received my Florida vote by mail ballot today. Filled it out and put it back in the mailbox to go out tomorrow. The ballot was mailed on Oct. 1, so four days to get across town including a Sunday. A flyer from Polk Democratics said no,yes,no,no,no,yes,no,no,no, so that’s how I voted on the amendments. I called them about the judges and whether to keep or discard, but they had no recs, so I voted “off with their heads” (all of them). So glad to get this out of the way.
Nelson
“No” on Amendment 1. I think it may be a trojan horse so that future legislative attempts to enact voter suppression laws cannot be ruled unconstitutional. (i.e., “It’s OK to exclude so and so from voting because those still allowed to vote meet the constitutional edict that ‘only’ citizens are allowed to vote as opposed to ‘every’ citizen.”)