Florida can block people with felonies from voting until they repay all money ordered as part of their sentence, a federal appeals court said Friday. State does not have to tell them how much they owe, even though it can be impossible to figure out https://t.co/Q2HQnbkV4p
— Sam Levine (@srl) September 11, 2020
Per the Washington Post:
… The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit in Atlanta agreed with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) that the payment of fines and fees by ex-felons is part of their “terms of sentence” and must be satisfied before they can vote.
The decision comes less than a month before the presidential swing state’s Oct. 5 deadline to register to vote for November’s general election.
“This is a deeply disappointing decision,” said Paul Smith, vice president at the Campaign Legal Center, one of the groups that had sued over the rule. “Nobody should ever be denied their constitutional rights because they can’t afford to pay fines and fees.”
The groups that filed suit say they are still deciding whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Earlier this summer, the high court declined to overturn a lower-court decision that also went against felons seeking to register…
The decision in the populous swing state could have implications for the presidential election. In 2016, Donald Trump won Florida by about 1.3 percentage points, or fewer than 120,000 votes, and a recent NBC-Marist poll found that Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden are neck-and-neck in the state, each at 48 percent…
The amendment affected an estimated 1.4 million adults in the state. Thousands began registering to vote beginning Jan. 8, 2019, the first day they were eligible to under the amendment. But six months later, DeSantis signed into law an extra requirement that all fines and fees owed by felons, such as restitution to victims, must be paid in full before they could register…
Of course it’s a poll tax in all but name, and therefore illegal, but that’s par for the Republican course, especially in an election year.
Short term, it would seem the best remedy would be donating to those groups working to pay off the fines and get these folks registered in the next few weeks. Any Florida residents and/or legal experts want to weigh in about this?
This is a bad decision about a worse policy. If you wish, you can help with a charitable donation to help Floridians pay off their fines and fees and regain the ability to vote, at https://t.co/buYwzeZVYS. https://t.co/6JzaR3q1HC
— Jamal Greene (@jamalgreene) September 11, 2020
Matt McIrvin
Isn’t it designed to be impossible for anyone to get re-enfranchised, regardless of whether they can afford it, because nobody knows the amount they owe and therefore they can never prove they’ve paid it off
(To make it really strong, the state could use a strong random number generator to generate the amount of the fee, in some distribution with a long upper tail, declare that the person owes the secret amount stored in the computer and then erase the number without revealing it.)
Sloane Ranger
First to respond! Personal first!
I don’t want to be a wet blanket here but I don’t see how donating towards paying off people’s fines/costs would help if the authorities can’t say what for definite that person owes. Someone might be placed in the position of thinking they’ve paid everything off and then voting, only to be told that the State has discovered a new outstanding amount and that person ending up being charged with election fraud for voting.
germy
I recommend this cartoon from storycorps.
A More Perfect Union
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA87JWa0bEw
JPL
Pryor lied in his opinion. I’m shocked!
debbie
@germy:
StoryCorps is a treasure and the highlight of my Friday mornings.
germy
Meanwhile…
Pending decision on adding Green Party to Wis. ballot upends election preparations
germy
@debbie:
One of our favorites is the one about the elderly woman who takes the brother and sister to bible class. Gives mangoes from her yard that “smell like liquor”
HeleninEire
Giuliani is losing it on MSNBC.
Haroldo
And the Wisconsin State Supreme Court doesn’t want to be left out of all the fun:
https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-supreme-court-temporarily-suspends-mailing-of-absentee-ballots/article_fc835ffc-3ac3-5783-a13e-1288ac341bb0.html#tracking-source=home-trendin
ETA: Just reiterating what Germy said in #6 (and now #11). Bears repeating.
debbie
@germy:
Jeez, I wish I could name just one! I can’t count how many times my throat’s lumped up after listening. I suppose the one I relate to the most was from years ago about a mother and daughter and how hard it was to switch from a mother/daughter to friends.
germy
(And never the twain shall meet?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wisconsin-ballot-green-party/2020/09/11/797aa4d2-f44a-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_wiscvote-655am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans
Quinerly
@HeleninEire: holy shit. I just tuned in.
scav
Imagine the howls if men owing child support were unable to vote until they caught up.
cope
As a 30 year resident of the Mildew State, I can say with absolute authority that this is just another on a list of citizen supported amendments that the fuck head lawyers, realtors and car salesmen who comprise our legislature have subverted.
For instance, the state lottery was SUPPOSED to be for “enhanced” educational funding. When the stupidity tax was approved, however, the legislature cut the next year’s education budget because it could be made up with the lottery funds. Voila, budget deficit erased, no taxes increased, Republicans win. It’s their M.O. whenever the citizens approve an amendment…turn it to their advantage.
germy
@debbie: They have a youtube channel.
I see them only sporadically on PBS, so we sometimes watch them online.
Sloane Ranger
@Sloane Ranger: OK, I got pipped at the post, but Matt McI’s post wasn’t there when I wrote mine – honest!
Quinerly
@HeleninEire: and now Lev Parnas!
kindness
Republicans across the land sprinkling fairy dust Federalist Society judges through our judicial system is showing results rat fucking the election. What they’ve ruled on in Florida and Wisconsin is electoral cheating except nut job judges OKed it.
When we take over in January, that filibuster is gone. All federal benches will need to increase their sizes to overcome what MoscowMitch years of efforts have produced. That includes the Supreme Court. 13 members sounds good to me. Otherwise any new laws, regulations and programs will be held up and tossed by these very same loons in any future Democratic administration.
SiubhanDuinne
@HeleninEire:
Damn. I had MSNBC on mute; was listening to Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me at the time. Hope I can catch it on YouTube or something.
Kathleen
Good news for Ohio voters. Ohio Democratic Party won temporary injunction against LaRose, who wanted to disallow emailed absentee ballot requests. LaRose is appealing. Of course he is.
https://ohiodems.org/ohio-democratic-party-wins-preliminary-injunction-in-lawsuit-to-allow-emailed-absentee-ballot-applications/
Also:
West of the Cascades
@kindness: amen, amen, amen.
mrmoshpotato
@HeleninEire:
Losing what? His mind? It’s been at least a decade since he had it!
Betty Cracker
@cope: Exactly right. I still think there’s a good chance Biden wins FL despite the rodent copulation, but it sure doesn’t help.
Ohio Mom
Kathleen: I’ll be driving down Montgomery Avenue to the Board of Elections and voting early in-person. I don’t trust anything else in our state.
Everything about the delayed primary was a confusing muddle and all LaRose has done is sown vote-discouraging confusion.
It breaks my heart, really, to see what Ohio has become. It wasn’t so bad when I moved here in 1979.
geg6
@HeleninEire:
OMG, I saw that. Wow. Jonathan Capehart looks like he got hit by a two by four after that. He’s just flabbergasted.
germy
Will this person still be moderating the vice presidential debate?
Thread:
Jeffro
@kindness: Agreed. Filibuster-gone. Federal courts-increased by at least 50%. Hearings into every “not qualified” judge (10 at last count) confirmed by McConnell/GOP, and possibly impeaching them – they never should have been nominated in the first place. Add 2 judges to SCOTUS to make up for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. Increase the size of the House by at least 50% too, while we’re at it. Re-count the Census. Institute Biden’s (Warren) tax plan and restore some sense of progressivity to our tax code. Tax stock transactions. Double the IRS budget and have them look at higher-income earners. Gently increase gas taxes and send the money to fund green energy & road repairs.
And get that amendment going to abolish the Electoral College…we’ll never get there if we don’t get started!
cain
@germy:
Everything is for sale – including debate moderation in this country now.
SFAW
@Sloane Ranger:
Whatever. Were I you, I’d use the “well, it’s five hours earlier where Matt is, so OF COURSE he’ll get in before me” excuse. It just might work.
JPL
@germy: She should withdraw and save what little reputation she has left. It won’t happen though.
JPL
@Jeffro: It’s doubtful that an amendment could pass in the current environment. There will be ads stating that NY and California will decide your election. Your state no longer matters.
They could give DC statehood though.
SFAW
@Jeffro:
Sounds like a good start. I’d like to see the Attorney General (and the House) start investigations into any treasonous or terrorist actions by the various (where “various” == “all of them, except maybe Charlie Baker”) Republican elected officials, as well, as former Trump maladministration officials.
Leto
@Jeffro: Ok, but what is day 2 of the Biden/Harris administration going to look like? :P
SFAW
@Leto:
We won’t be able to tell, because the tremendous shrieking by the Rethugs will drown everything else out for a few days.
mrmoshpotato
@SFAW: LOOK AT THIS DEFICIT! HOLY SHIT!
Leto
@mrmoshpotato: First 50 who say that get a dick punch.
SFAW
@Leto:
What about the remaining 49,999,950-plus?
SFAW
@mrmoshpotato:
Yeah. Will that be the Obama Deficit, the Clinton Deficit, or the Biden Deficit? Also: if the Biden Deficit, I think that shrieking will start on November 15th (or whenever the final vote count is reached, plus one hour).
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: “Okay, Mr./Ms. Red State Senator/Rep. Which Federal programs and spending in your state are you offering to cut?”
mrmoshpotato
@Captain C:
Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SNAP, and anything else that helps “the poors” and “the olds.”
Jeffro
@JPL: The other side is welcome to run all the ads they want, and we will too. I’m under no illusions about how long this is going to take…I just want people to get the discussion started
Jeffro
@Leto: ???
The Republicans are going to poop rectangular solid building materials when they see Biden & Co hit the ground sprinting in January.
i hope the Dems take turns giving weekly national addresses that point out how they’re rapidly making things better for the American people in a host of ways.
Kathleen
@Ohio Mom: I’m voting by mail for the first time because I’m also afraid in person voting will be chaos. The SOS received my application per web site so I’m just waiting for my ballot. I will drop it off at BOE drop box in Norwood. My mail service is still very good.
Leto
@SFAW: It’ll be like the draft. Numbers x-z, your firsts are ready.
@Jeffro: FDR fireside chats but updated. Biden YouTube chats. Hope he has his ‘Vette and a dog ready for that.
Yutsano
@Jeffro:
Doubling would get the IRS only to a budget level sufficient to 2015. You want actual tax enforcement? Give to the agency that nets four dollars for every dollar spent on it. And then watch the high earners start squealing.
MattF
Giuliani/Capehart is here.
oatler.
Toots Hibbert RIP
Omnes Omnibus
@oatler.: RIP
WaterGirl
@MattF: oh my god, Capehart is just letting Giuliani spew his crap uninterrupted. Making faces is not good enough.
From what you guys were saying, I though Giuliani got taken to the woodshed, but it appears to be the other way around. I had to stop watching after a couple of minutes because it was so distressing to see that.
Did I misunderstand where you guys were at on this?
Elmo
Open thread, so Imma put this here for the signal boost. This couple barely escaped with their lives from the fire in Oregon, but they did save their cat. Everything else is gone.
https://gf.me/u/yx7ikd
Cameron
We should double the size of the House. The minimum size of the Bundestag is 598, and Germany has – what? – 1/3 of our population or something like that?
Captain C
@mrmoshpotato: “Okay, Senator/Rep. So we have you on the record as wanting to cut your own constituents’ Social Security and Medicare. Thank you for the campaign ad, sir/madam.”
Van Buren
@Leto: You are a much kinder soul than I.
Chacal Charles Calthrop
@mrmoshpotato: but it’s true. Just as soon as Democrats get elected (FSM willing), the deficit immediately becomes top priority.
cain
It looks like they are saying that the crazy is on display uninterrupted.
WaterGirl
@cain: Interesting. I didn’t see wild-eyed crazy, I just saw lie after lie and spin spin spin
Depressing.
Amir Khalid
It’s been a frantic first half of the first half of Liverpool’s Premier League season opener against promoted visitors Leeds United. Liverpool lead 2-1, both sides have had a goal disallowed for offside.
ETA: Even more frantic: Leeds have equalised again. 2-2.
ETA: Liverpool lead yet again with a Mo Salah goal. 3-2.
Sebastian
@SFAW:
The good gish gallop: you do so many reforms so quickly that the outrage machine can’t keep up
Bill Arnold
@Yutsano:
Yes. With 10 percent of the budget going after the serious billionaire suspected delinquents.
Elizabelle
Book Passage author chat today.
Bill Petrocelli
in conversation with Joel Richard Paul
Today, September 12th at 7:00pm eastern/4:00pm pacific
Book Passage bookstore is virtually hosting Bill Petrocelli. https://bookpassage.extendedsession.com
Free program, but you need to register. Will give you access to their incredible program archives, and they seem to host top drawer authors on a lot of topics.
Elizabelle
@Elmo:
Elmo! Lovely to see you. Hope your pets and family are fine.
Maybe put this link in the next thread too, re fires out West? WaterGirl puts one up most days.
Kent
Seems like the only way to deal with this sort of endless fuckery in FL and elsewhere is to ram a new comprehensive voting rights bill through Congress that makes every bit of this stuff illegal at the national level. Which will 100% require abandoning the filibuster if the Dems win the White House and Senate.
That needs to be job one for the next Congress (while also addressing the pandemic).
Kent
And just have a simple proportional ratio of Congressmen to Senators. Your state gets ONE Senator for every 4 or 5 Congressmen. Small states like Wyoming would still get their ONE Senator even if they don’t have 5 Congressmen. Which would still give them outsize influence. But large states would get 4, 5, 6, etc. Senators with elections staggered ever 2 years so no more than 2 or 3 come up for election at any one time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Requires a Constitutional Amendment. Small population states will never vote to ratify it. Never.
Jess
Can we apply this ruling to people who don’t pay their taxes?
mrmoshpotato
@Chacal Charles Calthrop: Oh. I know. I know.
And if there was a *gasp of gasps* budget surplus, it’s “Let’s go bomb the shit out of some country with brown people. Shut up libtards! George W Bush is a wartime president! Why do you hate the troops?!”
Elmo
@Elizabelle: Blooming, thank you! We’ve done a good bit of extra fostering this year, and it’s been very good for my wife. Hope you’re also well?
Kent
@Omnes Omnibus: Of course not. I’m just tossing out what a fair and equitable legislature would actually look like.
RedDirtGirl
@HeleninEire: As per usual. Howdy stranger!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Why would a bicameral legislature be necessary? The original purpose was to have one house represent the people and the other to represent the states (which were considered equal). You get rid of that, you get rid of the need for a second house.
RaflW
@germy: More g-d damned ratfuckery in Wisconsin. Newest poll has Biden up by 5, but of course that’s within the margin of manipulation by a political party that hates voters
also @germy: The idea of a Green using a GOP law firm sure does have a stench to it. If there are legit Greens out there, they might want to take this moment to figure out who the fuck this Hawkins dude is beholden to.
Geminid
@RaflW: In Virginia, the Kanye West campaign has the law firm of State Senator Jill Vogel (R-Culpeper) suing to get West on the Virginia ballot. Vogel specializes in election law, and campaign finance law.
John S.
@WaterGirl: I saw the same thing you did. Giuliani steamrolled Capehart and only someone who is plugged into politics would even know that he was full of shit.
The media needs to learn how to deal with bullies.
Elizabelle
@Elmo: Yes. Very well. Thinking on doing some dog fostering very soon, myself. Carry on!
scott (the other one)
@Jeffro:
I’m totally on board with all your other ideas. But we need to add 4 not SCOTUS judges, because the illegitimacy of the Bush v Gore ruling means Roberts and Alito are also illegitimate justices.
cope
@Amir Khalid: Fun game, good result but now I have to decide whether or not to pay for NBC Peacock to watch games as few of them will be on regular cable any more. I know it’s only $5 per month but, come on…
PaulWartenberg
it should be illegal to have the state withhold what the actual fines should be. they could keep perpetuating fines on parolees by saying “no that $5000 you paid wasn’t enough, you need to pay $5000 more” and keep saying that for years on end.
this is a violation of due process as much as a violation of excessive fines.
We need universal voter registration and automatic re-installment of that franchise once prison time is completed.
Chris Johnson
Hell yeah. I like your thinking and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :)