As we all know, Trump is trying to steal the election by (among other things) buggering the postal service. Rep. Ted Lieu understands the scale of the emergency, and he says everyone who’s voting by mail needs to mail in their ballots by October 22:
The House cannot adequately fund USPS without the consent of @POTUS. Only other option is veto override with Senate. Does that seem remotely plausible? NO.
Here is the truth and I need you to spread it: the voters need to take control. Voters need to #VoteByOct22 if using USPS. https://t.co/lsLERIWV1a
— Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) August 13, 2020
Other people say Democrats should vote in person if they can and vote early to 1) reduce the chance of having to stand in line for hours and risk their health, and 2) foil Trump’s obvious scheme, which is to hope for an election day lead and cry foul if it evaporates when mail-in votes are counted.
The thing is, every state has its quirks. Some accept ballots postmarked prior to election day even if received after, while other states require that the ballot is received by a designated hour on election day.
In my county here in Florida, you can vote in person even if you requested a mail-in ballot, but you’re supposed to bring the mail-in ballot with you to the polls. I don’t know what happens if you show up without it. Provisional ballot maybe?
Some states/counties provide secure 24/7 drop-boxes to collect mail-in ballots. Others don’t but will accept them at the supervisor of elections office. So maybe the best approach is to review your county’s supervisor of elections site to familiarize yourself with the rules in your location.
It’s also a good idea to periodically check your registration status, particularly if you live in a state that has a Republican governor and/or secretary of state. Brian Kemp was only the most recent Republican to blatantly steal an election by purging eligible voters from the rolls.
In 2000, then-Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his corrupt Secretary of State Katherine Harris set Jeb’s brother George up to steal the 2000 election with massive, flawed voter purges.
That’s why I’ve periodically checked my voter registration status for the last two decades. (I’ve never been purged, maybe because I’m a white lady with a name that screams, “I’m a white lady.” Florida’s Republican governors tend to be demographically selective in their purges.)
So, here’s my voting plan: when my husband and I receive the mail-in ballots we requested, we’ll fill them out immediately and drop them off at the 24/7 lock box our county provides. It’s a longish drive to another town, but what the hell — it’s a scenic drive.
This plan ensures we won’t have to depend on the USPS to return our ballots on time. It also means our votes will be banked, even if we die in a plane crash before November 3. (The plane would have to crash into our sofa — we hated flying even before the pandemic.)
In our county, the supervisor of elections has to mail ballots to voters no later than 33 days before election day. When you return it, there’s an online portal where you can confirm your ballot was received and tabulated, so we’ll be doing that. If we don’t receive our ballots by mid-October, we’ll visit the supervisor of elections office in person to investigate the delay.
If the mail-in ballots never show up, we’ll go to the polls in person on election day and demand the right to exercise our franchise. I’ll hand-cuff myself to the auditorium doors if necessary, though I don’t think my husband would go that far.
As you can see, my voting plan needs work, but here’s my point: now is the time to think about possible contingencies. What’s your voting plan?
PsiFighter37
Voting in person. I will not vote by mail / absentee in NY again until they figure out what went wrong in the primary this summer.
RedDirtGirl
Voting early and gonna be a poll worker. At 55, I’m lower risk than a lot of the retirees that usually do it.
prufrock
Mine is similar to yours Betty, with the exception that the County Supervisor of Elections has its office a mile from my job, and the drive is nowhere near as scenic.
Jinchi
I plan to vote as soon as I get my ballot. California has an online system to check when your ballot is received and accepted as valid.
Getting to the polls early on the day of the election, in a pandemic year, when polling places are being shutted seems like a high risk option to me. Milwaukee closed all but five polling places during the primary (they usually have 180) and I know a few people who were unable to vote because of that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Repost: The O’Bros have the state-by-state breakdown. I haven’t checked all fifty, but I think they have them all.
narya
Voting early; Rikyrah pointed out that there’s more of it this year (longer hours, for a longer period), and I want to take the burden off of mailing as much as possible. Not that this state is an issue, but still.
Jinchi
@PsiFighter37: What went wrong in the New York primary?
Betty
Here in Dominica, we still have no mail service to the US. I have received confirmation that I will be getting my ballot via email. Several of us are trying to find a way to have our paper ballots returned. Fed Ex is an option. The US Embassy has said they cannot act as an intermediary. We’ll see.
frosty
We’re voting in person to try to bury Trump on Election Day for PA. Our voting place is a former school gym – high ceilings and huge floor space, so I’m not too worried about indoor air.
Until the lawsuit is settled, PA won’t have any drop boxes. We can drop our mail-in ballots at the BoE at the County Courthouse, which isn’t far. I suppose I should go ahead and get these in case our polling place gets closed due to a shortage of volunteers, and research how to cancel it and vote in person.
Jinchi
@Betty: There are email ballots?
edit: I think I misread: you’re getting confirmation by email.
holyrood
I live overseas now and my husband and I are really worried about getting our ballots here and back again on time and counted. We’ve requested ballots, made sure we’re still registered so fingers crossed and watching with anxiety from across the pond.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Here’s Scalzi talking about his voting plans: early, in-person. We asked for mail-in ballots for the first time. I’m now wavering and wondering if we can/should just vote early, the way we have in the past.
polyorchnid octopunch
As a Canadian, I can only say that the insanity of your electoral system really makes the United States not look like a functioning democracy.
As in, “The United States is not a functioning democracy.”
Cameron
I usually mail my vote in, but there’s a drop box at the Supervisor of Elections’ office that’s a very brief bus ride away. Will fill ballot out and drop off ASAP after receiving it.
Barbara
I will be voting early, either in person at the county courthouse or very early in the AM at my usual polling location. It’s not even two blocks away. The county has weeks of early in-person voting, including on Saturdays. Virginia only moved to no-excuses absentee voting, but even before then, a very significant percentage around here just voted early/absentee in person.
cope
We have been getting our ballots here (Florida) by mail for a couple of cycles now. I always take them in person to the local poll where there is a box just for these ballots and drop them off. I will do this doing early voting. I do not anticipate any problems once I get our ballots.
Gin & Tonic
I wrote downstairs, we have early in-person voting this year. You have to go to the Board of Canvassers’ office, which is super-convenient for me, any day between Oct 14 and Nov 2. We use optical-scan paper ballots (fill in the bubble), so you fill it out and insert it in the machine and watch it be counted. Hard to imagine a better solution.
Mai naem mobile
Will drop off early ballots to the County elections board and then track to make sure it got accepted and counted which is something you can do here.
Jinchi
@polyorchnid octopunch: It functions like an old car with a rickety engine: you’ll probably make it to your destination, but it wouldn’t be surprising to be stranded on the highway.
How is the system different in Canada?
Skepticat
@Betty: Do you qualify as a resident living overseas? I do here in the Bahamas, and I vote my absentee ballot online through a Maine state program. It’s a fabulous, secure, efficient system for which I’m more grateful now than ever.
Jinchi
@Gin & Tonic: It does seem like the obvious counter to Trump’s sabotage efforts is to offer early voting and drop off boxes. But that won’t work in places run by Republicans (like Florida), since they’re part of the sabotage effort.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Vote-by-mail in Colorado is easy and efficient. We’ll get our ballots in plenty of time, even allowing for Hair Furor’s plans to slow USPS delivery down to a crawl. We have a drop box that’s about 5 minutes from our house. We drop them in the drop box.
I have total faith in the state to do this right because they’ve had loads of experience with no issues.
rikyrah
Keith P.
I’m voting in person so I’m more confident that my vote will count. I’m in Texas suburbia, so my polling place has maybe 5 people waiting and maybe 10 voting machines. I’ve never waited more than 5 minutes in 15+ years.
I just checked my registration, and it’s been continuous since I was 18. I registered with my driver’s license, and I guess it’s auto-renewed ever since, because I don’t do anything re: registration/renewal, yet I get a new registration notice every year.
Betty Cracker
@polyorchnid octopunch: I cannot disagree. We’ve got a lot of work to do, and while I am committed to doing my part, I wish I were more confident in the ultimate outcome. Gotta try though. No choice.
ciotog
Illinois has early voting starting September 24th. I will be waiting at the county courthouse when they open the doors on September 24. Just need to research the judges first.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Jinchi: Voting systems are identical across the country. Voting systems are not run by an elected official; they are run by either Elections Canada or the provincial equivalent. We don’t use machines of any kind; we use paper ballots and boxes and count them by hand the way God and the Mills intended; if a particular candidate and/or party can’t get enough scrutineers together to monitor the count that’s on them, but there are generally plenty. We keep the ballots for years so as to be able to verify counts as needed.
If someone were to attempt to fuck with the system in the way that Trump is now there would be hell to pay; we very much appreciate the transparent verifiable nature of our system Thank You Very Much. None of this “Georgia governor election is being run by one of the people running for the job” bullshit that’s apparently endemic in the US “system”.
chopper
washington is full-time VBM, but i’m using the dropbox.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Betty Cracker: Aye, that’s very true. The thing is… if it’s obvious that the numbers are being fucked with, or the process (such as it is) is being fucked with, you guys need to go to the next step, which is to emulate people in places like Beirut, Belarus, and Portland, and show up to register the pissedoffedness with the people fucking with your democracy.
Sure Lurkalot
My plan is the same as Betty’s…assuming I get my ballot in the mail, I will walk the 1/2 mile to the nearest dropbox as is usual since Colorado instituted mail in voting in 2013. You can still vote in person as well, early or on Election Day. Our current SOS is a Dem, but the previous Repub one was not opposed to voting rights.
As for the mail, I have not experienced a slowdown here. I mailed some masks to my in-laws who live 50 miles away in the mountains and they received them the next day. Maybe too anecdotal as it is “local”.
polyorchnid octopunch
@polyorchnid octopunch: To clarify: when on the day after the Banana Republicans try to pull a Brooks Brothers Riot 2.0, the people need to show up and put the fear of meeting God into Those People.
StringOnAStick
My state has been all mail-in ballots for at least 7 years and it has worked efficiently and quickly. I always ride my bike over to the county court house and out them in the official drop box within 24 hours of our receiving them. Then I get an email to tell me mine has been received and other telling me it’s been accepted for counting, and my husband gets the same notices. If any of this doesn’t happen then I will be at the county clerk ‘s door immediately. CO doesn’t actually start counting them until election day. All the major state offices are held by D’s, including the one in charge of the voting system who has a story out today calling Trump a liar about the integrity of vote by mail.
Lapassionara
Here in St. Louis County, all persons over the age of 65 have been sent an absentee ballot application for all 2020 elections, and we don’t have to have the ballot notarized. However, I am reluctant to use USPS to return it, so I am going to call the county board of elections to ask if we can drop it off to them in person.
There are actually laws on the books that make interfering with mail delivery a crime. I wish the house would subpoena the PG and do more than just shrug about his actions.
raven
We’ve got nothing to do so we may just cruise early voting and go when there are few people.
arrieve
@PsiFighter37: Me too. I never got my absentee ballot for the primary election in June; NY was just not prepared to handle the volume because usually absentee voting requires an excuse. So I’m planning to vote in person in November. If NYC continues to keep the virus mostly at bay, I’ll feel pretty safe voting on election day. I’ll look into early voting but I’ve never done that and don’t know where the locations are. Either way, I will crawl over the metaphorical broken glass.
p.a.
@Jinchi: They’re already closing down drop off box locations: Ohio SofS as an example (I think per Kay)
Betty
@Jinchi: Yrs, they can email you a ballot that you print out. In Pennsylvania, it has to be returned as hard copy.
SiubhanDuinne
I’ll vote in person on the earliest possible date.
Jinchi
Sounds like another good reason to vote early if possible. If only to free up space for the people who can’t.
artem1s
Early voting starts October 9 in Ohio. I plan on voting in person as soon as possible.
I think mail in ballots are going to be far more of a problem for rural areas or suburbs honestly. The Cleveland BOE office routinely handles a lot of mail in ballots and they actually count and report whatever they have on hand the day of. For the most part the Main post office seems to be functioning pretty well still. Again, I think its’ the suburbs and smaller post offices that are going to have issues. Honestly, the GOP is shooting themselves in the foot again with this. They are simultaneously pissing off those voters who still rely on the post office the most and those who would normally vote by mail and be hard line GOP voters. Folks who still get SS payment in the mail and pay all their bills by check and send actual cards and letters to their kids and grandkids. Those people’s votes aren’t getting counted on election day either. As per usual the Kuschner brain trust hasn’t really thought this strategy thru. They only know how to win by destroying something in the process. In this case they are discarding another loyal voting block in their zeal to tear something apart, just because they can.
Betty
Jinchi
We’ve actually gotten pretty good at that over the last few years.
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty:
This astonishes and dismays me.
rikyrah
I have ordered a mail ballot. All I need is for it to come. I will hand deliver it to my election authority.
StringOnAStick
@polyorchnid octopunch: I ‘m completely down with doing exactly that.
I expect to see Q, which pretty obviously a Russian op, start stirring up the gun fondling crazies about election security plus we already had Parscale saying they’ve been building an army of “poll watchers”. I hope we are doing the same on the DL and not yet announcing that for the benefit of surprise.
Betty
@SiubhanDuinne: I think it would be viewed as vote harvesting.
rikyrah
For our Mail Ballot voters:
Please find out:
Does your ballot have to be POSTMARKED BY ELECTION DAY.
Or DUE INTO THE ELECTION AUTHORITY BY ELECTION DAY.
Does your Election Authority REQUIRE THAT THE BALLOT BE DELIVERED BY THE POST OFFICE.
Or, do they have DROP OFF BOXES.
IF they require that it be delivered by the Post Office –
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU JUST DROP OFF YOUR BALLOT AT THE POST OFFICE. YOU NEED TO GO INSIDE, AND WATCH THE POSTAL STAFF PUT A TIME STAMP ON YOUR BALLOT ENVELOPE.
sheila in nc
In NC, early voting starts on October 15. It’s so weird: if you want to vote on Election Day, you have to register no later than Sept 25; but if you are unregistered on October 15, you can go to any early voting site in your county of residence and do “one-stop early voting” which is to register AND vote on the same day.
Leto
USPS says Pennsylvania mail ballots may not be delivered on time, and state warns of ‘overwhelming’ risk to voters
This is the fuckery we here in PA are facing. Avalune and I have already decided that if we know our mail-in ballots won’t make it in time, we’ll head to our assigned polling station and vote in person. No fucking way will our votes not be counted.
BCHS Class of 1980
@cope: Likewise for us here in Hillsborough County FL. Our county has traditionally played it as straight with elections as the state will permit. One quirk in FL law: apparently you are not allowed to drop off a ballot for a family member. The worker allowed that anyway in the primary but I’m gonna research that more for the general.
Josie
I had planned to vote by mail. I have changed my mind and will early vote in person. Luckily, Texas Gov. Abbott extended the early vote an extra week, to begin on October 13, one of the few decent things he has done.
Another Scott
Excellent post.
I think that Donnie’s efforts are going to come for naught in the vast majority of cases, because people are paying attention and planning ahead. But it’s infuriating that it’s happening at all and may succeed in stifling the vote in even a few places.
I trust our election officials here in NoVA and in the county and the state. We’re probably going to request absentee ballots over the web and track them electronically. We’ve done in-person early absentee voting in the past (“Yes, I swear I will be out of the county for 11 or more hours on election day…”), it took longer than it should have. With the voting reforms of last summer, it should be easier, but voting at home is much, much less stressful.
October 13, 2020 is the deadline for registering in VA. The last day to request an absentee ballot is 11 days before the election (Thursday October 22?).
The LWV.org site – https://www.vote411.org/ – is an excellent site for just about any kind of voting information for any state (and Americans overseas).
Like the Internet, we must route around damage to our right to vote and get to the destination.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
Something is breaking at DHS — GAO rules top two officials do not legally have their jobs (Chad Wolf and Ken Cuccinelli). Per MSNBC/Pete Williams.
EDIT: Because “acting” status. Sorry, I was sort of listening with one ear and phone-typing simultaneously, so even more incoherent than usual.
charluckles
Have to agree with the other comments. Vote-by-mail with a ballot dropped in an official dropbox is the way to go.
It should be a national plan. You get your ballot with plenty of time to research the candidates and issues. Do you want an extra half hour to read about amendment D? Sure no problem.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
That means anything DHS has done under them will be challenged in court.
Ohio Mom
Yup, the Ohio SoS says only one drop box per county, I believe at the Board of Elections— he has an excuse for this, I’m sure.
The drop box/ Board of Elections in my county is on a bus line but not easy to get to, especially for the areas that are predominently Black. If you are in a rural part of the county and without a car, too bad if you want to vote early in-person or via drop box.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat)
@Betty:
I and my three sons are registered in California. Two get email ballots. My second son and I get paper ballots. I’m worried about getting the ballots on time and have considered contacting the Registrar.
As for returning the ballots, the US Embassy here in Tokyo said in their latest email that we can send the ballots to the Embassy and they will forward them to the US. I plan to take advantage of that as are several other Americans I know. The last time I tried to send something through the post office, the Japanese PO told me they could not guarantee at all when it would arrive in the US. A lot of stuff gets hung up in Customs.
John S.
I have the same plan here in Broward county Florida as you Betty.
indycat32
I’m considering my voting options, not that it really matters. I live in Indiana and the only time my vote mattered was in 2008.
germy
I’ll be voting in person, early.
The only problem is I still haven’t decided whether I want Biden or Trump.
/
Baud
As always, voting early and often.
Kristine
I’m going to vote by mail. I will probably drop off the ballot at the BoE office if possible.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@indycat32: think of it as creating a close margin that will make your Senators and Governors more nervous about Buttigieg
Tenar Arha
I requested a Mail in ballot via returning the prepaid postcard for the MA primary on Sep 1st, mailing it from my town’s main post office just last weekend. I did it this way partly just to test how long it takes for me to get my ballot. If it doesn’t arrive before the early voting period at the end of August, I’ll do early voting instead. Basically, if I’m forced to do early voting for the September primaries then I’ll just plan on doing early voting for the November 3rd general election.
WereBear
NY here. We are going to investigate voting early and monitor any changes, so that if all else fails we’ll show up at our usual polling place. We can practically see it from here, we can pick a low-traffic time.
NY got overwhelmed at the first attempt at mail-in during the primary. Now, we don’t want to worry about it, though we might use it for a village election in September.
BCHS Class of 1980
@BCHS Class of 1980: A reply to myself: I am not sure but I think FL counts mail-in votes received before election day as part of that first dump they issue just after the polls close in Pensacola. I don’t see how they could have called the Gov and Sen races so quickly without that. My point is that FL is probably the earliest swing state to report results so if Biden can show a small but not razor-thin margin here, it would take a lot of wind out of the GOP’s sails. Biden doesn’t need Floriduh but Trump does.
germy
https://thebulwark.com/how-to-steal-an-election/
I’m cautiously optimistic we can overcome.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud: Yeah, IANAL but it seems to me that any of their orders would be moot (am I using that term correctly?).
Miss Bianca
CO has universal mail-in ballots, plus early voting. I plan to mark my ballot as soon as I receive it and drop it off in the county drop box. Or maybe hand it to the county clerk in person, depending on how I feel about walking into the courthouse building at that time.
Betty Cracker
@John S.: Broward, good God and good luck. Have they straightened that SoE office out yet? Nightmare fuel for years!
PenAndKey
I was originally planning to vote by mail here in Wisconsin, but because of the news this week I’m going to be voting when my town’s polling place opens early on 9/17. I’m also going to be renewing my efforts to figure out how to get a Provincial Nomination and convince my wife that moving up your way is a good idea no matter how November turns out. At this point my entire life from my teen years on have been spent lurching from one dysfunctional political catastrophe to the next and I sincerely don’t want my kids to have to do the same.
japa21
Early voting in person. Poll worker on election day.
A couple things. If you request a mail-in ballot and decide to vote in person instead try to remember to take your ballot with you. You can either turn it in or destroy it and vote the normal way. If you do not take it with you, at least in Illinois, you can do a provisional ballot. They will then verify that they never received your mail-in and count your vote.
In Cook County, mail-ins can be dropped off at an of the early voting sites or at your normal precinct on election day. They have not had drop off boxes in the past. Which brings me to an observation.
We had all new equipment for the March primary, so they did a special survey of all the judges weho worked and then a Zoom focus group for those that were interested. You have to declare that you are either a Republican or Democratic judge so they get evenly balanced. My general experience is that those that work the polls are honest people who want to make sure the election is run smoothly and if it weren’t for the name tags indicating party affiliation you wouldn’t know who was which party.
On the call, I was able, I think, to ID a couple GOP judges. Most questions were about process, PPE (yes we will have masks, gloves, face shields, sanitizer, etc), and other normal itmes.
Drop boxes were discussed and one person (probably Dem) was hoping there would be more that just at the EV sites. She suggested libraries, as an example. Two questions surprised me. One person was very concerned about signatures not matching and that people shouldn’t accept a signature that isn’t identical to the one on record. And another was worried about protesters and rioters upsetting the process. I think the last two came from GOP judges. Just a guess.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
Close, but better to say “invalid.”
pat
Haven’t read any comments yet, but I will be voting as I did for the primary:
Take ballot to Town Hall, about a mile away.
Fill out ballot at desk set up for that purpose.
Write my name in the presence of a person behind the plexiglass at the counter.
That person signs as a witness, seals ballot envelope, done.
eta: That assumes, of course, that the post office delivers my ballot. Heh.
eta 2: delivers my ballot to me in the first place.
danielx
Thought about absentee ballot, have decided to vote early in-person instead. Better to be sure – although if I had to crawl through fire and broken glass to vote against the shitgibbon on Election Day, I’d do that also.
@SiubhanDuinne:
What is this “legally” concept of which you speak?
Olivia
I will be voting early and taking my ballot to the assigned dropoff for early voting.
Betty Cracker
@PenAndKey: My husband, our toddler and I were living in Tampa when GWB got reelected in ’04, and we seriously considered trying to move to New Zealand. Sometimes I wish we had followed through on that.
But then my mom wouldn’t have been physically present to see her favorite grandchild become a teen, I wouldn’t have been able to hang out with my beloved sister, my husband wouldn’t have been there to be a comfort to his father in my FIL’s remaining years and then a comfort to his mother when she lost her husband and subsequently a son.
It’s a lot to weigh, or at least it was for us. I do wish my now-young adult kiddo didn’t have to try to finish her education and start her career in a disease-ridden idiocracy. I think Trump will lose, but between 30% and 40% of our countrymen are goddamned malevolent idiots, so I expect another demagogue by and by.
Another Scott
Relatedly, …
(I hope a FPer can post the graphic.)
(via NotLarrySabato)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: Christ, and that’s the Bulward, the refugees from the wreckage of the Weekly Standard
Aziz, light!
1. Remain in Oregon.
2. Drop ballot in usual nearby drop box.
Ruckus
There is a polling place on my way to work, and here in CA one can drop off a mail in ballot at any ballot box drop off location. The polling locations are open for some time before election day, that’s considered last day, not the only day. Your ballet has to be postmarked by a certain date, can’t remember what that is. States with decent government want you to vote, make it as easy as possible. As @PsiFighter37: stated, it doesn’t always work as intended but they have tried to make it as easy as possible.
One point for CA folks. You can register online on the state site but it actually updates the county site so doesn’t seem to respond to checking like it should. If you are checking your registration, use the county site. I checked the state sight and it said I lived in a city that I’d never lived near. So it tells you to reregister, which I did but finally had to check the county sight to insure that I get my ballot. I should have been OK, I voted in the primary from this address. But one never knows.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@polyorchnid octopunch: We are not. The Republican party broke everything that made it function, in order to stay in power.
We are all hoping there is enough left in the hands of state governments to get them out of power and begin rebuilding democracy, but it is not a guaranteed thing at all.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
We don’t have early voting. I think I’m going to risk in-person on Election Day, because our region hasn’t been raging with the virus, and our polling station is rarely crowded. I used an absentee ballot for the primary, but it came late and I had just enough time to drop it off. I don’t want to risk that for the general.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I plan on voting absentee, but will rely on the mail as less as possible. I’ll drop off my ballot application in the county board of elections drop box and then return the ballot to the same drop box. I’m taking as little chances as possible
Don K
The town clerk in my town in MI has said they will get absentees into the mail 6-8 weeks before election day, which should be adequate time even with serious USPS ratfucking. My husband and I signed up for general-election absentees at the same time as we requested primary absentees, and we will fill them out right away (straight Dem, easy!), and I will put them in the drop box inside the entrance to town hall, which is about a mile from our house.
In MI, one can register on election day at the clerk’s office, if necessary. Online registration is available, but there’s a deadline sometime in October for that.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Leto: Also in PA. The state emailed me and told me I was put on the permanent list for mailed ballots when I requested one for the primary. And I already requested a general election ballot before they told me that. So I’m committed to a mail-in ballot.
If I receive a ballot before election day, I’m dropping it off as soon as I can drop it off. In a drop-off box.
If there is no drop-off box, I’ll deal with in-person voting on election day.
Because I have requested a mail-in ballot, I will probably have to do a provisional in person. And we know there will be millions of voters in my shoes, and we know they’re going to be trying to sue states to get them to throw out those provisionals. But what else can I do?
Edit: Actually I’m not sure if I’m committed. If I don’t use the mail-in ballot, perhaps I can vote in person with no issues. There are some things it’s been hard to find out in PA. I only found out at the last minute in the last election that there would be a drop-off box at my local polling place.
FelonyGovt
California here. My family plans to have a “filling out the ballot” session at the kitchen table as soon as we receive our vote-by-mail ballots. Then we will drive them to the library, or whatever designated drop facility is closest and drop them off.
Being a member of my local Dem club helps because I learn in advance about the propositions, which judges on the ballot are Democrats, etc.
japa21
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: If you bring in your ballot with you, you probably won’t need to do a provisional.
Gin & Tonic
Speaking of elections, I have to admit I didn’t expect this much protest activity still going on nearly a week after.
geg6
The primary was the first time you could vote by mail here in PA. We requested ballots and to keep getting mail-in ballots for the general. There was a drop box at the county courthouse, but we mailed them out, checked to make sure they were recorded (county has a website to check) and there was no problem.
Since then, Trump has apparently decided to target our state. Mail has slowed to a crawl in the last few weeks. And his campaign or the GOP (not sure who is plaintiff and too lazy to look it up) has sued to disallow such drop boxes and that case is pending, I believe. Also, I know there was some legal action in the last couple of days at the State Supreme Court about allowing counting ballots received by mail until three days after the election. The law says they have to have been received by election day, but obviously that is questionable this year. I don’t know if anything has happened with that yet.
So John and I have decided that our first plan is to use the drop box, if it’s available. Backup is to mail in the ballots at the post office in the county seat, as long as we get them early enough to trust they will be sorted and sent across the street to the courthouse in time. Third option is to go to the usual polling place in person and vote there. We are really trying to avoid any more exposure than we get already due to shopping and my going back to the office (even if it ends up only being a few days a week…college students aren’t always the best about disease mitigation).
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Thanks. Works for me, and doesn’t sound jargony.
RoonieRoo
In Texas, voting early datewise and timewise. I’m hoping by getting there as early as possible in the morning we further lower the risk of in person voting.
Pittsburgh Mike
I’ve ordered a mail-in ballot (Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, PA), and will either take it to a drop box (they open 4 days before the election), or if it really looks like all the usual polling places will be open, I’ll just vote in person.
But I’m leaning heavily towards the drop box. If too many poll workers skip showing up, I’d rather not wait in a 2 hour line. In my county, they start counting mail-in ballots at 7:00 AM on election day, and expect, worst case, to finish the mail-in ballot count by the day after the election.
Pittsburgh Mike
@FelonyGovt: Be careful — in my county, the person dropping off a ballot has to be the person who voted the ballot.
sanjeevs
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pkyv4k/internal-usps-documents-outline-plans-to-hobble-mail-sorting
Pittsburgh Mike
@Betty Cracker: Yes, how are 38% (minimum) of our population still enamored of Trump? I will never get it.
Amir Khalid
@SiubhanDuinne:
Remember which party is in charge of the State Department.
dopey-o
St Louis County has several drop-off locations, including some libraries. Check their website, if you did not receive a postcard listing locations and hours.
Word of warning, bring your photo ID. I witnessed several people who were required to leave their place in line. St Louis County is very blue, but things happen on the best of days.
scav
@chopper: youpee x2 for WA and dropboxes — I can immediately think of the locations of two we pass by regularly. My Chicago lifeline would be haunting the school auditorium down the street with all the other ghosts early and often.
Leto
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yeah, I’m not sure if there will be a drop off box here. We both requested mail-in ballots, and that’s how we voted in the primary. If we can’t be assured that our ballots will get there in time, we’ll take them with us to the polling location.
Yutsano
@Another Scott: I’m partial to this graphic as well.
munira
@Jinchi: I live i Washington state again but for quite a few years I lived in Quebec and I received my Washington state ballot by email. It was great. It’s an option only for over-seas voters, however.
PenAndKey
This has been my wife’s issue as well. Her mother is an absentee sociopath we don’t have much to do with and her father has severe dementia, but she loves my parents, my brother and my remaining grandparents that all live in the area. We talked about moving in 2016 but weren’t in a position to do it then. We have a 10 year old son now and just had a daughter four months ago. She doesn’t want to leave the family, and while I get that sentiment I don’t consider it enough anymore. Neither do my parents, and they’re 100% on board with having to fly to visit us if that’s what it takes.
I dreamed of going to school in Canada when I graduated HS in 2003 but I was a 1st generation college student and clueless about how to do so, so that didn’t happen. I squeaked through the recession, married my wife, and we together clawed our way into middle class during the Obama years. Then 2016 happened and things are bad enough, systemically, that Bush Jr now seems downright pedestrian. The stresses of it likely played no small part in the fact I went bald and developed anxiety-triggered high blood pressure by my late 20s. No matter how awesome the Biden/Harris (and hopefully Harris/?) years may be it’s now time to look out for my kids. If I can snag an Invitation to Apply we are gone. We’ll vote from abroad and I’ll do my part to help, but I don’t want my kids here anymore. Things may get better and they may want to move back but that’s a choice they’ll have to make when they’re adults. For now, their safety and future is my responsibility.
If anyone had told sixteen year old me how things were going to play out over the next 18 years I would have put a lot more effort into figuring out how to study abroad.
Tenar Arha
@Tenar Arha:
Massachusetts Addendum: I confirmed w the Town Clerk that my mail-in-ballot went out to me on the 11th & also that there is a drop box at the Town Hall. So, it looks like the sabotage at the ballot request stage isn’t complete, because it basically took only a day or two for my request to get from the Post Office to Town Hall. And one way or another I can definitely make sure my ballot gets in before the election.
geg6
@BCHS Class of 1980:
PA starts counting mail in ballots at 7am election day. They should be some of the first results here, too, I’m thinking. Or hoping. This is our first time at this and we’ll see how it goes.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Pittsburgh Mike:
That sucks. At least in Ohio a near relative can drop off ballots
Yutsano
@PenAndKey: There are many many things I wish I knew when I was younger. Like the fact that my grandfather is actually an Irish citizen because he was adopted by an Irishman. Or that my other grandfather could have easily been a dual citizen of Canada. That could have opened up worlds for me.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@geg6:
Same in Ohio. Absentee ballots are the ones first counted on election day. Though I don’t know how true that’s going to remain with this election
sdhays
@holyrood: When I was working for a few weeks in Malaysia in 2017, I sent my Virginia ballot through the embassy. Ballots sent that way get brought to the US as part of the standard diplomatic pouches, and then enter the USPS as normal.
Of course, now the USPS is a problem, but it still might be worthwhile bypassing the international mail blackbox.
frosty
@geg6: In PA, my understanding is that you can turn in your ballots in person at the Board of Elections, which in my county is the courthouse. So you might be able to bypass the USPS if you’re going there anyway.
geg6
@frosty:
Yes, we will consider that, too. However, the county seat post office is literally across the street from the courthouse and I have a friend who is postmaster there. He will let me know if there is any concern about getting my ballot across the street.
a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio
Vote.org’s page on early voting by state:
https://www.vote.org/early-voting-calendar/
Ksmiami
@Jinchi: double masking, double gloves, hat, glasses/goggles voting in person in Dallas because fuck this shit…oh and double fuck to hell all GOP Senators and enablers too…
geg6
Latest on the PA drop box lawsuit:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-judge-campaign-evidence-voting-fraud
Wow. Kinda surprised by this.
Gretchen
I’m going to use a mail ballot and put it in the county lockbox so it can’t get lost in the mail. I don’t want to use voting machines until they are sure they’re not being hacked, and Kansas isn’t committed to that right now.
satby
@japa21: Don’t assume that the GOP judges are GOP voters. I was an independent for the almost 10 years in the 80s-early 90s that I was a judge, and they assigned me to be a GOP judge because we had no volunteers for that in my precinct.
allium
@japa21:
It would be terrible if said worthy suffered a stroke, a hand injury, or some other malady that de-suffragized them. A real shame.
germy
New Jersey to send mail-in ballots to every voter
germy
@allium:
We used to sign in on the paper books. Then my state switched over to the electronic sign in with a stylus. I tried my best, but my signature is altered slightly using an electronic pen, or whatever they’re called.
Delk
Voting early in person. Chicago makes it a snap. For the primary it took me all of 45 minutes and that included a half mile walk to the polling station and a half mile walk home.
evodevo
@Sure Lurkalot: Yeah, at this time in the covid economy, the speed of mail depends a lot on whether a plane is involved in the process…the drastic falloff in plane traffic plays hell with the mail, since most of our Priority/first class stuff goes out of state by passenger plane….In normal times, the USPS leases space on 15,000 of the approximately 25,000 scheduled passenger flights each day…so the covid falloff has been a real problem…
Croaker
@Leto: Called this AM. They are processing the earlier July requests now. We requested ours mid July.
Once all processing is complete they certify and then will mail the ballots out by mid-Sept. The lawsuit is ongoing so drop box locations outside of the County seat have yet to be confirmed.
However you hand deliver your ballots in person (Mon – Fri 8-4). The Voter Services representative I spoke with indicated there are discussion on-going to extend office hours etc.
Office Location:
Montgomery County Voter Services
One Montgomery Plaza
Suite 602
425 Swede St.
Norristown, PA 19401
Chris Sherbak
@RedDirtGirl: Bless you!
Brachiator
I’m in California. If there is early voting and the polling place is nearby, I will probably vote in person. But I guess that there is little that Trump or the GOP could do to mess with the vote here.
Otherwise I will be busy with work. But if there is a small thing I could do to help protect the vote elsewhere, I might like to try to help.
japa21
@satby: Oh, I know that. One person in the primary asked me (I don’t know why me) what we needed, a GOP or Dem. One way it matters is because someone form each party has to accompany everything the the main collection center.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@geg6:
So am I. I guess not every Trump appointee is a total hack
PaulWartenberg
I work in Bartow FL which is the Polk County seat and I drove by the Elections office to make sure that YES they have a mail-in ballot deposit box outside their front door.
I have seen reports from other Florida counties that they have similar deposit boxes at their county elections offices. So you can do an absentee/mail-in and drop it off directly to avoid the nightmare the postal service will be.
PaulWartenberg
I also did Early Voting for the Florida August primaries and there was no line or people waiting. I heartily encourage early voting in large-population counties – especially Broward and Dade Counties, damn they need it – to help reduce the long lines that are bound to happen on Election Day itself.
FelonyGovt
@Pittsburgh Mike: Yes, all 3 of us plan to go together to make the drop off so we’re all present.
A Ghost to Most
Voting plan? Fill out the ballot that arrives plenty early, fill out said ballot, and drop in drop box close to election day, just like always. CO has this down.
jl
Thank goodness. Other Dem Congressional leadership need to make this a top priority and make loud clear and repeated statements on this. Blurt it out in every media interview. Call it what it is, a criminal attack on our democracy and our human rights. Bunch a people deserve a trip to the Hague for trial, in addition to other measures.
RedDirtGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: They must figure you won’t be voting for trump.
La Nonna
We vote by mail from Italy, our little rural NYS county has done a super job getting us our ballots, however, we return them via DHL courier, worth the 40 eu and tracking # to make sure our ballot arrives in time. The Italian chaotic postal system must be what DeJoy aspires to, it’s really bad.
Uncle Cosmo
As of now I intend to vote in person as early as possible at a not-busy time of day. One of my state legislators e-mailed that all early-voting locations in Baltimore City will be open for business & one is a 5-minute drive (or 10-12 minute walk) from home.
I would drop off a VBM ballot at that location were it not for the fact that MD does not even start counting mailed ballots till 8 AM on the next day after Election Day & I am fucking well not going to contribute to Chicken Brittle’s bogus attempt to claim victory that night & block the counting of mailed ballots.
I intend to query the State Board of Elections re when a VBM ballot turned in at the early-voting site will be counted. If it turns out to be at the same time as other votes registered there (i.e., Election Day evening) I will probably do that – quicker in & out for someone in Thuh Varss’s geriatric and comorbid bullseye. Will let the MD Jackaltariat know.
Another Scott
ObOpenThread. Questions about which Chromebook to get come up here occasionally. Here’s a new review of one toward the high-end of the family – https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/08/14/acer-chromebook-spin-713-review/ ($629).
Cheers,
Scott.
trollhattan
Ours is one of the first five Cali counties to have adopted the state’s new system allowing mailing out all ballots to voters, with several voting options. I will drop mine off October 24 when the early drop-off sites open. Am hoping we don’t have the usual blizzard of propositions, given it’s almost impossible to circulate petitions and the leg hasn’t been busy creating a bunch. The only dart-throwing ones are the judges and the school and utility boards.
Haroldo
@Tenar Arha:
I requested a Mail in ballot via returning the prepaid postcard for the MA primary on Sep 1st, mailing it from my town’s main post office just last weekend. I did it this way partly just to test how long it takes for me to get my ballot. If it doesn’t arrive before the early voting period at the end of August, I’ll do early voting instead. Basically, if I’m forced to do early voting for the September primaries then I’ll just plan on doing early voting for the November 3rd general election.
I’m performing a similar experiment, though relying on the USPS do to everything. If there are problems with the September primary, it’s early voting for this boy.
Biff Baxter
I’ll be voting early
evodevo
@germy: Yeah, they did the finger thing here in Ky and my sig looked like I was drunk AND on meth AND 90 years old. Really a stupid move…
Leto
@Croaker: Thanks for this! Like you said, we should get our ballots by mid-Sept and we’ll have them back in the mail either same day or next. But we’ll also monitor wtf is going on with the Postal Service between now and then.
@geg6: Good; make’em put up or shut the fuck up. If you have evidence that this is “wide spread”, present it. Otherwise you’re doing what you always do which is fearmonger and spread disinformation.
Jess
I’m voting early, in person. I’m in central Mass and have never had to wait more than a couple of minutes to vote. Since I can vote easily in person, and we’ve mostly gotten the pandemic under control here, I don’t want to add to the burden of dealing with mail-in ballots. My mom and sister, both high risk for COVID complications, will vote by mail.
swbarnes2
The issue that I can see with dropping off mail ballots is that there is a stage where your ballot is sealed with your name on it. I can see Republicans finding excuses to challenge certain people’s ballots to keep them sealed and not counted. If you vote in in person, Republicans have no way to challenge the poll worker’s decision to let you vote, and your ballot is anonymously mixed in with others.
cope
@BCHS Class of 1980: I’m pretty sure I have been able to drop my wife’s ballots without a hitch as she is disabled but I will make double dog sure for this election.
Jinchi
My first name looks the same regardless, but my last name looks completely different when written on paper versus via electronic stylus. I always double check my driver’s licence to be sure of the “official” version.
way2blue
The Lincoln Project has a useful webpage < lincolnproject.us/vote > that pulls together voting information for every state, with an emphasis on the ‘swing’ states (i.e., Voter Registration Deadlines; Who Can Get an Absentee Ballot; Absentee Ballots Application Deadlines; Completed Absentee Ballot Deadlines). I plan to ask them to add which states have ballot tracking for mail-in ballots (California does) and links to locations for early drop-off of ballots. Let’s see if I have any luck…
Betty Cracker
@PenAndKey: Totally understandable, and best of luck to you and yours, whatever you decide. How awful that we’re having these kind of conversations! I’m almost glad my mom didn’t live to see it, though she’d damn well have some colorful words to describe it.
Marcopolo
Good morning folks. Late to the thread but Betty thank you so much for doing a post on this topic. Maybe we could do a weekly post about making a plan to vote at the same time and same day for the next 9 weeks. Making a plan to vote is one of the guaranteed ways to increase the number of voters casting their votes in an election.
I live in St Louis County. Absentee balloting starts six weeks prior to the election on Sept. 22. That’s when you can request your absentee ballot (though some folks due to age or disabilities are set up to automatically get absentee ballots) in MO. It is also the first day you can go to the Board of Elections to cast an in-person absentee. We do not have regular “early voting” in MO so if you do in-person absentee you need to provide a reason for voting this way. In the past that has included being out of your voting jurisdiction on election day, your work status preventing you from voting on election day, etc… This year they have added in having a medical condition that makes you high risk for Covid-19.
Due to all the uncertainties around voting this year (I will list them at the end), My mom & I will be driving to the Board of Elections September 28 between 9-10 am to cast in-person absentee ballots. We do not believe there will be a crowd to vote that many weeks prior to the election which satisfies our concerns about Covid-19. To get in the building we will need to be wearing masks and make it through a temperature check inside the door–you also have to walk through a metal detector. That’s my plan. Over the course of the next 4 weeks I will also be asking my friends & neighbors what their plans are & make suggestions if they don’t know. This is an existential election for the direction of our country so we need every vote.
Here are the uncertainties I am trying to avoid by voting in-person absentee (man I just wish there was early voting):
Regular absentee voting with a deadline of Oct 21 for requesting a ballot: 1) in MO you need an excuse to do this; or, for this particular election if your excuse is Covid-19 you then must have your ballot notarized–I am avoiding the hurdle of finding a notary; 2) your signature on your absentee ballot must match the signature in your voter file or it gets tossed–I am avoiding this hurdle (I have a really crappy signature); 3) absentee ballots have additional features that must be filled out properly (all of them) or they get tossed (I am avoiding this issue; 4) my mom never got her absentee ballot in the mail for an election in June (avoided); 5) once properly filled out ballots need to be delivered to the BoE by 7 p.m. on Election Day, not just postmarked on election day (avoided).
Concerns about voting on Election Day: 1) The biggest one for us is long lines & slow voting meaning more Covid-19 exposure than we would like; 2) but also possible election day issues: bad weather; computer glitches a) election machine issues (like not having the right cards for operation which happens at location in StL County every big election); b) internet hacking (all of the voter list info is now done at the polling location using iPads connected to servers at the BoE, if that connection fails or the servers go down they can’t verify your ID & you can’t vote.
That’s my 2 cents. I suppose if I lived in a state with mail in voting & drop boxes I might also be worried about tampering with the drop boxes this year which could either be trying to steal ballots/boxes or just outright destruction like pouring gas into a drop box & dropping a match in or just pouring some substance in that makes counting the ballots inside impossible. I wish I didn’t have to worry about shit like this but that’s where we are right now.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
I recently bought the Spin 713 and think it is a very good device. I’m not traveling, but I have used it while sitting out in my patio, and battery life has been great. The speakers are mediocre. Some folks might not like them at all.
I also like that it comes with 128GB of storage. Usually, these devices come with 64GB max.
Currently, this Chromebook and a few other brands and models seem to often go on sale at $100 off. This is when I bought it and recommend that others wait for a sale.
I think the idea of a premium Chromebook at a higher price is nutty.
Ruckus
@Lapassionara:
Doesn’t take both the house and the senate to do anything about a corrupt executive department member?
Because if it does nothing will change till after January 3.
jc
This is bullshit. Voting is now no longer enough, we must vote early. Winning is now no longer enough, we must win massively. But of course, if he wins by one (stolen) EC vote, he’ll proclaim the biggest mandate in history.
We must drive a wooden stake through his “heart” or he’ll rise again.
dnfree
We plan to vote early to avoid crowds and possible inclement weather in northern Illinois. That way we should know our vote gets counted. But there are only two early voting places in our whole large county, and the nearest one is over 10 miles from us.
Mart
I had asked for an absentee ballot, changed plans waited in line to vote as did not get absenteenabsentee (MO is a PITA). Checking in man said I had an absentee. I said changed plans. He said give to me to tear up. I said left at home. Said need it to vote. I had to get to the airport, so no vote for me. Vote by mail is so fraudulent. Not. Also thanks to me, Trump is president.
sherparick
For more information on voting during the 2020 Crisis,
Shakti
I have my primary ballot filled out. I’m torn as to whether to continue requesting a ballot by mail or go in person on election day. Your plan is basically how I’ve voted in my Florida county for the last several times. I haven’t figured out my contingency plan if the post office doesn’t deliver my ballot to me in time. ://
I prefer mail ballots because 1) I can do research beforehand and 2)no anxiety which poll worker I get looking at my driver’s license. Now because I’m in close contact with my parents who have preexisting health conditions, I’m worried about COVID.
Betty Cracker
@jc: Yep, I’m angry as fuck too, and you’re right, we have to curb-stomp Trump, but not just him — so many of his goddamn enablers that the party elders dredge up the post-2012 “autopsy” they conducted after Romney lost (the document that basically boiled down to “stop being racist, sexist bigoted assholes”) and give that another look instead of going full-metal fascist.
That’s the only way we’ll have a snowflake’s chance in hell of salvaging our democracy. We can’t merely retake the White House, we MUST retake the Senate and increase seats in the House.
We’ve got to kick the ever-loving shit out of that party in November so the plutocrats who fund the whole rotten thing get the message that backing white supremacy, sexism, xenophobia, etc., is a political loser. The have no morals, but they understand losing.
I don’t even know if it’s possible, but damn it, we have to try.
Dave
Stupid question.. can UPS or FedEx deliver a mail ballot. It might make sense to distribute board of election addressed mailers as a “non partisan ” activity since I don’t see how we can overcome this blocking maneuver in time.
holyrood
@sdhays: thanks! we’ll look into it
J R in WV
@munira:
When did Quebec become “over-seas” — somehow I missed that tectonic event!!
;-) Just kidding, I know what you meant…
Marcopolo
@Dave: It all depends on your state’s election laws regarding harvesting ballots. The USPS is considered a trusted carrier and is exempt from ballot harvesting regulation, but FedEx & UPS are not. Call your BoE to find out if it is okay. But also still send your ballot with plenty of time. The other thing FedEx & UPS don’t do is postmark your ballot.
Marcopolo
@Mart: Well, the irony of your comment is this is exactly why it is so important to make your plan for voting well ahead of the election. My neighbor, who I’d been nagging to do this, did not and found himself in the hospital for heart issues the day before the election. He did not cast a vote, though so far he seems to be on a smooth recovery path.
J R in WV
Here in quite rural WV, we have always voted in person at the local precinct, which for many years now has been the gym at the local (previously a high school) K-8th grade school. It is sometimes a little crowded, but the gym has room for people to wait inside if the weather sucks outside. The one time we had to wait we checked in with the staff, and then waited seated on the bottom bleacher seat, sliding over as people were sent to voting stations. It was pretty congenial, people visiting, etc. Since we’re “foreigners” from another county almost 90 miles away, not so much for us as we didn’t go to school with all our neighbors.
This summer we voted early at the county seat for the primary, since I needed to do some tax stuff in order to renew an auto registration.
It was easy, new machines that generate a human-readable paper ballot, which gets fed into a new ballot box which does counting as the ballots are loaded into the ballot box. There was no one in front of us, another couple showed up as we were finishing up. Masks were mandatory, and there were gallons of hand sanitizer all around.
We intend to vote in person during the early voting period for this November’s general election, which according to the web page of the Secretary of State (a Republican ass!) will run:
There is a community center on this end of the county, a second one on the other end of the county, and of course at the Court House in the county seat.
We are not going to make any use of the Post Office, since “president” Trump has confessed he is attempting to destroy the USPS before the election. I’m not sure how this isn’t confessing to an election fraud crime even before it is committed, but “president” Trump appears to think no law applies to him or any of his administration hires, so whatever. I would hope indictments will be handed up on November 4th, regarding election fraud, felonious interference with the mail, etc, all things Trump has admitted to on TV, which I would assume would be pretty good evidence.
cain
I’m going to use the ballot box method – I can’t trust the USPS from here on in. Expecting people to mail in their ballots exactly on Oct 22 seems unrealistic. But there will be wide spread disruption across all citites on voting – these people are out to get us and take away our votes.
They are going to steal this election and it’s going keep happening – and they will take over the house in 2 years if the presidential election is stolen. Because it works. Once they are lodged into the federal govt I think the only way to get them out is through some serious civil disobedience.