• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Yes we did.

I did not have this on my fuck 2020 bingo card.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

I can’t take this shit today. I just can’t.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

… down to kool-aid drinkers and next of kin at the trump White House

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Screw the Judean People’s Front. Splitters.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

The revolution will be supervised.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Four legs? good! two legs? we’re not so sure…

Deploy the moving finger of emphasisity!

Usually wrong but never in doubt

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Shocking, but not surprising

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Shock troops for the Unitarian Jihad.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Mobile Menu

  • Look Forward & Back
  • Balloon Juice 2021 Pet Calendar
  • Site Feedback
  • All 2020 Fundraising
  • I Voted!
  • Take Action: Things We Can Do
  • Team Claire, and Family
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • BJ PayPal Donations
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Nature & Respite
  • Information As Power
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • On The Road
  • Garden Chats
  • Nature & Respite
  • Look Forward & Back
You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Goons Out

Goons Out

by Major Major Major Major|  July 29, 202012:26 pm| 252 Comments

This post is in: Civil Rights, Open Threads, Something Good Open Thread

Facebook0Tweet0Email0

Submitted for your approval:

After my discussions with VP Pence and others, the federal government has agreed to withdraw federal officers from Portland. They have acted as an occupying force & brought violence. Starting tomorrow, all Customs and Border Protection & ICE officers will leave downtown Portland.

— Governor Kate Brown (@OregonGovBrown) July 29, 2020

Open thread!

UPDATE: The NYT has more details: Federal Agents Agree to Withdraw From Portland, With Conditions

Under an agreement between Ms. Brown and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the governor’s office said the Oregon State Police will provide security for the exterior of the city’s federal courthouse, while the usual team of federal officers that protects the courthouse year-round will continue to provide security for the interior of the building.

Ms. Brown said the federal tactical teams that had deployed to the city would begin a phased withdrawal on Thursday. But Chad Wolf, the acting secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, said in a statement that though the department has agreed with the Oregon governor on a plan, the department will proceed with the withdrawal of security personnel in Portland only if federal officials are confident that federal properties will no longer be under attack.

“State and local law enforcement will begin securing properties and streets, especially those surrounding federal properties, that have been under nightly attack for the past two months,” Mr. Wolf said. “We anticipate the ability to change our force posture,” he added, once circumstances on the ground “significantly improve” with the deployment of additional state and local law enforcement.

Facebook0Tweet0Email0
Previous Post: « No AF1 Ride for YOU!
Next Post: Attn: Suburban Housewives of America! »

Reader Interactions

252Comments

  1. 1.

    JR

    July 29, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    Great news, if it holds.

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 29, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Good.  Now start kicking the ass of judges who slap “no protest attendance” conditions on people picked up for looking the wrong way at some fascist pig.

  3. 3.

    burnspbesq

    July 29, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Woo-hoo!

  4. 4.

    Amir Khalid

    July 29, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Does this mean the Trump Stormtroopers won’t be going nationwide after all?

  5. 5.

    different-church-lady

    July 29, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    Shouldn’t there be headlines about Pence deposing Trump by now?

  6. 6.

    trollhattan

    July 29, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I assume it merely frees them to go elsewhere.

  7. 7.

    patroclus

    July 29, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    The ceasefire is great news! I have to say that I am very impressed with Portlanders and the way they responded to this situation. The Wall of Moms, the Dads with Leaf Blowers, the Navy Vet, the naked Woman were all creative and convincing that the protesters were mostly peaceful and representative of regular citizens. Yeah, I know that there are still a few anarchists who are provocateurs but the overwhelming majority of the coverage on non Fox/NewsMax/OAN media was all about the creative non-violent protests and Trump decidedly did NOT get what he wanted here; either in campaign footage or in suppressing the protests in his fascist-like authoritarian fashion.

    Kudos to the Oregonians!  Portland isn’t often the lead story on the national news, but they really stepped up bigly when they were this time.

  8. 8.

    WhatsMyNym

    July 29, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    What do you want to bet that one of the goon squad came down with the virus and the rest suddenly wanted to go home.

  9. 9.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 29, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I assume it merely frees them to go elsewhere.

    But where?  They need a big city having ongoing protests, where the police will happily look the other way, and where the city and state governments don’t have the power to immediately turf them out on their ear.  Other major cities have been watching Portland, and whatever got Trump’s Tiny Penis Brigade out of Portland, those cities will be ready to repeat it.

  10. 10.

    Poe Larity

    July 29, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    This just means the drone squadrons have been fully stood up in the PNW.

  11. 11.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    I’m pleased they’re leaving but I still want to cut their budget. They’re gigantic and bloated and unaccountable. We need the money to rebuild the country – it can be put to practical use on investments that actually return some long term value to the public- something that appreciates, an investment in people.

  12. 12.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    July 29, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    This is fantastic news. I want to thank Gov. Brown, Sens Merkley and Wyden, AG Rosenbaum, and so many other Oregon elected officials who forcefully pushed back against the Trump admin’s unlawful police state.

    Next year: Let’s reorganize the DHS and disband ICE and CBP.

  13. 13.

    opiejeanne

    July 29, 2020 at 12:44 pm

    They left Washington yesterday. There was no “phased withdrawal” BS.

  14. 14.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    It’s just face-saving. They went in without thinking about when or how they get out, because it was purely political and not designed for any practical or real purpose other than taxpayer funding of Donald Trump’s campaign ads.

  15. 15.

    patroclus

    July 29, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Kay: I’m not necessarily in favor of cutting budgets, but I do think that the DHS should be eliminated and the agencies should be returned back to their original administrative locations so that there isn’t a massive pool of non-military “troops” that a President can call upon to suppress peaceable assembly.  We only have a DHS because of Bush and Lieberman et. al. – the CBP and the Federal Martials and ICE etc.. all have separate missions and should not all be lumped together under one administrative house.

  16. 16.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: they could probably have a go at it in Brooklyn. NYPD happy to play along, and that’s where our most Portlandesque protestors live.

  17. 17.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 29, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @Amir Khalid: It means it’s possible to push back with effect, and everyone else needs to take notice.

  18. 18.

    Amir Khalid

    July 29, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    Off topic, but Malaysian satellite TV news channel Astro Awani is reporting that a primary school kid has tested positive for coronavirus. I guess we’ll find out tomorrow whether the Min of Edu closes that one school or all of them nationwide.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    @patroclus:

    Agreed on the break up but I would reduce funding. We have a huge police apparatus and no investment in people. It doesn’t appreciate. We should get more long term value out of what we pay for. It’s out of balance.

  20. 20.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    @trollhattan:  They were pushed out of Seattle too. Someone gave that order. But I think this is temporary at best.

    @Villago Delenda Est:  Ugh. The order affected the SPD for Seattle at least. No word yet if it changed but I get the feeling “extremely temporary” won’t be.

  21. 21.

    grumbles

    July 29, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    Oh good, back to the border where they can kill people without the cameras rolling.

    (I’m glad Portland is deporting the jackboots; I’m less glad they still have jobs.)

  22. 22.

    Charluckles

    July 29, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    Surprised (naivety?) at the number of comments to that tweet who seem to be suggesting that Portland is going to burn.  Among other things Trump has really exposed the cowardice at the heart of the Republican Party.

  23. 23.

    Thaddeu

    July 29, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    This is a tactical retreat. The underlying ideology — ruthless use  of power  to  retain  power — has not changed.  Gerrymandering, dismantling voting rights, voters ID,  none of that is going away even if Biden wins

    This will come back with a vengeance in Trump 2.0,

    The Republican party needs to be burned to the ground.  Racist-in-Chief John Roberts needs to be sidelined as head of the petty faction.

    Thirteen on the Court, or this country is toast.

  24. 24.

    opiejeanne

    July 29, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    @Kay: Watching Portland gave Washington state time to get ready for the Federal goons. They were involved in some BS here on Saturday, and the Seattle cops were part of the problem, but the Feds are gone and now we just have to deal with our local goons.

  25. 25.

    Calouste

    July 29, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s not like they had lack of cooperation from the Portland Proud Boys, oops, the Portland Police Bureau, or from the SSPD in Seattle. They still left. I was wondering how long they could keep these guys around with no entertainment except a hotel tv and maybe a minibar.

  26. 26.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 29, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @Amir Khalid: The word is there is only 150 of them, some unit in the Border Patrol, and basically they lost in Portland. The protestors were to well organized and wore them down.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @patroclus:

    African Americans want order and safety too, and they’re paying for it like everyone else. They don’t have to choose between chaos and unresponsive law enforcement and racist law enforcement. No one should or would accept that choice. That’s too low a standard.

    If they had enough funding laying around to devote millions to Donald Trump’s re-elect they have too much funding.

  28. 28.

    Barbara

    July 29, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    Here is my totally cynical take.  If you want to scare suburban whites into voting for you based on law and order messages you aren’t going to do it by showing pictures of basically unmarked law enforcement agents beating up and arresting other white people.  Everyone with a brain knows that campaigns constructed around “law and order” were intended to stoke racial fear and allow whites to justify racism in the voting booth (I don’t hate Black people I just hate lawlessness!).  So my view is that Trump is looking for a place where he can put Black people in his law and order campaign visuals.  I dearly hope white people continue to show up to defeat that effort.

  29. 29.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    I’ll believe it when I see it.  This feels to me like Lucy and the football.   Trump will come up with some reason to blame Brown and the Dems for failing to do the job and the find that he is sorrowfully “forced” to renege on the deal.

  30. 30.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    July 29, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @Thaddeu: This will come back with a vengeance in Trump 2.0,

    That’s actually my concern; some who comes along who is competent, follows Trump’s example but not a true believer so isn’t stupid like Trump and his circle are.

  31. 31.

    Bostondreams

    July 29, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    So are they leaving or not? https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1288499846471614466

    Choose your news: Oregon Gov Brown: “The federal government has agreed to withdraw federal officers from Portland.”

    Acting DHS Secretary Wolf: “The Department will continue to maintain our current, augmented federal law enforcement personnel in Portland”

  32. 32.

    MJS

    July 29, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    Note that it was Pence, not Trump who agreed to it, which will allow Trump to maintain his tough guy facade with his followers, or countermand Pence if the decision gets too much blow back in the wingnutosphere. Plus, Trump got all the footage he needs for the ads he believes (wrongly) are going to help his reelection.

  33. 33.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @opiejeanne:  Durkin needs to go all Camden here. Decertify their union, disband the department, and only allow hirebacks after a thorough screening. Then model the police academy after Washington State Patrol training. Because I have notice there are almost no incidents (that I have heard of) of WSP using brutal tactics on drivers or arrestees. Not to say it hasn’t happened, but it’s rare.

  34. 34.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @patroclus:

    Please please stop repeating this nonsense:

    I know that there are still a few anarchists who are provocateurs.

    There are protestors who are actively tagging walls with graffiti and an ongoing effort by a small group to dis-assemble the fences/walls.  This is not violence.

    There has been confirmation in the last week in numerous locations (see Richmond and umbrella man in Minn) that the provocateurs are right wing actors.

    Sorry, but the prevalence of this talking point being repeated by folks on the left as a given, makes me nuts.  There is no left-wing violence happening in Portland.

  35. 35.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @Barbara:Here is my totally cynical take.  If you want to scare suburban whites into voting for you based on law and order messages you aren’t going to do it by showing pictures of basically unmarked law enforcement agents beating up and arresting other white people.  Everyone with a brain knows that campaigns constructed around “law and order” were intended to stoke racial fear and allow whites to justify racism in the voting booth (I don’t hate Black people I just hate lawlessness!).  So my view is that Trump is looking for a place where he can put Black people in his law and order campaign visuals.  I dearly hope white people continue to show up to defeat that effort.

    So, picking the whitest major city in the country was probably a strategic error on their part.  Is that what you are saying?

    Next time they will pick Philly or Baltimore or someplace like that?

  36. 36.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    Moving up from below:

    Oregon State Police will guard the federal building not Portland PD. Interesting development which may help defuse the situation. Yes, OSP jerks went into a Corvallis restaurant and refused to wear masks.

  37. 37.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    @Bostondreams: 🤷🏻‍♂️

  38. 38.

    Calouste

    July 29, 2020 at 1:01 pm

    @Kay: And a lot of that police is just hanging around doing nothing really. Remember the video from a few weeks back of a Black lawyer getting harassed by six (6!) cops loitering in a parking garage?

  39. 39.

    Jeffery

    July 29, 2020 at 1:01 pm

    Donald/Billy cave. Unpopular. Sad.

  40. 40.

    opiejeanne

    July 29, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @Kent: He said this morning that if Portland doesn’t get the rioters under control he will go in there and clean it out.

    Obviously Trump isn’t going to go to Portland, he’s just threatening to what? To bomb the three blocks where the activity was? Send troops with tanks? I figure it’s the drugs talking.

  41. 41.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee: it’s hardly authoritarian propaganda to note that some people are throwing paint balloons, shining lasers in eyes, etc. patroclus said nothing about violence.

  42. 42.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    July 29, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @Thaddeu: Thirteen on the Court, or this country is toast.

    Fifteen.

    After 15, it just gets unwieldly. Less than 15, and the GOP will just add more when they’re in charge again.

  43. 43.

    BruceFromOhio

    July 29, 2020 at 1:03 pm

    No plan, no benefit, no ‘mission accomplished,’ just slinking away with tail tucked. What a fucking waste from start to finish.

  44. 44.

    Keith P.

    July 29, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    Aren’t they just being redeployed to Detroit, Milwaukee, and Cleveland?

  45. 45.

    JohnMCinNc

    July 29, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    The Hill is reporting Goon Squads are being sent to Milwaukee, Detroit and Cleveland. All of them are urban areas of battleground states, but I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-administration-to-send-federal-agents-to-cleveland-detroit-and-milwaukee/ar-BB17kxWb?ocid=msedgntp

  46. 46.

    oatler.

    July 29, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    I read a local Oregon news site whose comment section included a person who openly advocated assassinating Brown. There’s Portland, and then there’s the rest of the state. Let those goobers secede or merge with Idaho. They can kiss their welfare payments goodbye.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:06 pm

    @Calouste:

    I did see that but in their defense frankly 90% of the job is downtime. I think that’s the nature of the thing.

    The black lawyer gets two things- he gets to not be harassed by police because he’s black and he ALSO gets to call the police if his car is stolen and they will respond and be respectful and attentive. He doesn’t have to choose. No one else has to choose. Black people don’t either. This petty storming off and refusing to do the job isn’t acceptable, even if their feelings are hurt.

  48. 48.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:07 pm

    @Bostondreams: it looks like he’s saying they will keep the humans in/near Portland, in case things don’t work out after they withdraw. So he’s pulling back, but probably expecting destructive behavior to continue, so he can say “I told you so, we aren’t the provocateurs”

  49. 49.

    Barbara

    July 29, 2020 at 1:07 pm

    @Kent: Chicago, I believe, is where they are likely headed, assuming that they really are leaving Portland.  I mean, Portland was a pretty stupid choice.

  50. 50.

    Lacuna Synechdoche

    July 29, 2020 at 1:08 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee: There has been confirmation in the last week in numerous locations (see Richmond and umbrella man in Minn) that the provocateurs are right wing actors.

    Sorry, but the prevalence of this talking point being repeated by folks on the left as a given, makes me nuts.

    Seconded!

  51. 51.

    Montanareddog

    July 29, 2020 at 1:10 pm

    1. Don’t think it matters if this is a “tactical” retreat or not, if Dem surrogates (Vote Vets, Project Lincoln, etc.) can hammer the hell out of the Admin’s “failure”.
  52. 52.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 1:11 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Those activities are what is happening, and have been labeled as “violence” by administration officials including the Chad.

    “Anarchist provocateurs” vs. “violent extremists”.  Different phrases, same message.

  53. 53.

    patroclus

    July 29, 2020 at 1:11 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee: It’s not a “talking point.”  It’s reality.  Here in Chicago, our protests were overwhelmingly non-violent, but in the first 2-3 days/nights, there were still looters and provocateurs who were not exclusively non-violent.  MLK and John Lewis both routinely had to fight against a few allies back in the 50’s and 60’s who were not always non-violent.  As did Gandhi.  As did/do Nathan Law and the Hong Kong protesters.  Denying reality is something the Trump people do – we should acknowledge that our side is not perfect and we must combat those who would hinder our cause by behaving badly sometimes.

    My view on Portland is based on Portlanders themselves on this very blog reporting the fact that there are some anarchists in Portland that routinely try to take over otherwise non-violent protests.

  54. 54.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @Calouste:And a lot of that police is just hanging around doing nothing really.

    Crime has been dropping for thirty years but I rarely find anyone aware of the actual stats so police budgets increase. Money is spent one declining or trivial flashy problems. Sadly similar to increasing military budgets focused on the wrong problems.

  55. 55.

    BruceFromOhio

    July 29, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @Keith P. @JohnMCinNc: From that article:

    The DOJ is sending more than 25 federal investigators from the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to Cleveland to assist state and local law enforcement focused on gang activity, gun violence and drug trafficking. The city’s police department will also receive $10 million to fund the hiring of additional officers.

    This doesn’t sound like the same thing as Portland. A casual contact in the local FBI office has mentioned ruefully that “COVID hasn’t affected the drug trade AT ALL,” and that undercover fentanyl busts continue apace. Yet another example of big bucks for more cops, no mention of economic relief for small business, the unemployed, families, human beings. Fuckers.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @Montanareddog:

    I think we have a lot of trouble accepting that they’re blundering idiots, even when the blunder is obvious. Portland is a quagmire for them. They aren’t going to “win” because setting it up as a battle was stupid. They had to find a way to get out and this is the way.

  57. 57.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @Lacuna Synechdoche: Some of them obviously are right-wing agitators.  But a whole lot of them are not.  I was living in Seattle during the whole WTO protests what?  2-decades ago now?  And I’ve been living in the Portland area long enough to know that there are plenty of young lefty anarchist types who like breaking glass and setting things on fire as well.    And they love to show up for any protest and do their thing.  It’s a sport.

  58. 58.

    Ruckus

    July 29, 2020 at 1:16 pm

    @Kay: 
    The bloat, and the contempt, is obvious, the control is lacking, intended or not, it feels like they consider themselves a part of a dictatorship rather than a democracy.

  59. 59.

    patrick II

    July 29, 2020 at 1:16 pm

    @Kay:

    I would certainly cut the budget for camo outfits without identifying tags. Also, tear gas, Darth Vader Masks, and car rental.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:18 pm

    @BruceFromOhio:

    It isn’t the same thing but there’s a lot of confusion, including from the media. I listened to a public radio report about the Cleveland  action and the DOJ lawyer they interviewed went out of his way to distinguish it from Portland. My sense was he really didn’t want it tied to the Portland situation, legitimately, because it’s different. The two things have two different names, although I don’t remember either of them.

  61. 61.

    BruceFromOhio

    July 29, 2020 at 1:18 pm

    @patrick II: But GSA rate for per diems, that’s gonna stay.

  62. 62.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:18 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee: idk, depending on the laser they can do real damage, and IANAL but it reads like assault.

    Now, Barr is defining refusing a lawful order to disperse as violence, which troubles me a lot more.

  63. 63.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    @Barbara:@Kent: Chicago, I believe, is where they are likely headed, assuming that they really are leaving Portland.  I mean, Portland was a pretty stupid choice.

    Yes.  This is by no means over.

    And yes, Portland was a very stupid choice because (1) it is very white, (2) it has a deep and well-organized protest culture, and (3) it is unfriendly turf.  No way OR flips red and this wasn’t impressing any left coast wing voters.  From a tactical standpoint it would have made more sense to pull this shit in a state like WI that is racially divided and has large numbers of rural white swing voters who are going to cheer seeing some skulls cracked in Milwaukee.

    We will see how Chicago works out for them.  They risk another George Floyd type incident but this time some 60 year old black grandmother/school teacher/Sunday school teacher type getting beat to death.  That’s a hell of a risk.

  64. 64.

    Frank Wilhoit

    July 29, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    Governor Brown does not know how to negotiate.

    “…all Customs and Border Protection & ICE officers will leave…”  Inasmuch as we do not know anything about the organizational affiliation of the paras, this does not imply that any of them will actually leave.  They can continue breaking heads while Pence (and Trump, and Barr, and Wolf, and whoever) shrug and say, we don’t know who these guys are, they’re not ours, while ocntinuing to give them their orders.  This is straight out of Putin’s Ukraine playbook; Ukraine has been completely occupied and controlled by insignia-less Russian troops for years now.

  65. 65.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    @Kent: Not trying to both-sides it, but there are definitely people on both sides who are just showing up to brawl. I know a couple.

  66. 66.

    ET

    July 29, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    I guess someone finally convinced the cheeto that this wasn’t helping him.  It is easier to convince people that all this was ANTIFA when they were brown and young but not so easy to convince them when its white moms.

  67. 67.

    Wapiti

    July 29, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    @Kay: How about we cut their budget 10% a year, ramping up to 20% a year over the next 10 years, then holding it there until the money Trump shifted from the rest of the government for his wall is paid off?

  68. 68.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 1:24 pm

    OT: to the surprise of no one here Kavanaugh is a fucking coward.

  69. 69.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:26 pm

    @Kent:

    The Chicago and Cleveland (and Kansas City) plans are different. They’re DOJ led. They won’t be visible and they won’t be ICE and Border Patrol and they won’t be under the command of Chad the Lobbyist.

    They may still be bad! But they’re not the same thing.

  70. 70.

    patroclus

    July 29, 2020 at 1:28 pm

    @Kent: Yeah, but Chicago is WAY different than Portland.  First, we already have a substantial federal presence that is here on a permanent basis.  There isn’t a single federal courthouse, there is a Federal Plaza, with any number of federal agencies housed in a multi-block complex.  Second, the geography is different – the Loop can be effectively closed off by raising the bridges on the Chicago River thus vastly limiting access on any given night.  The police got a LOT of training and experience with the NATO protests a few years back and, if they want to, they can limit protests each and every night in and around federal buildings.  Third, the locals, the state and the Feds usually work together in concert with one another – there wouldn’t likely be an identifiable Federal Goon presence that was/is distinguishable from the regular police presence.  Fourth, there are real problems here with gun violence, gang violence etc.. that are a LOT more important than suppressing peaceful protests and virtually everyone knows this.  It would be hard for Federal Goons to suddenly convince everyone to ignore all of that and target protests instead.

  71. 71.

    robmassing

    July 29, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    The word is there is only 150 of them, some unit in the Border Patrol, and basically they lost in Portland. The protestors were to well organized and wore them down.

    Perhaps the leaf-blowers were the last nail in the coffin. When it’s the locals vs. an occupying force, home field advantage is a BFD.

  72. 72.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 29, 2020 at 1:35 pm

    I’m bummed because I missed the chance to be gleeful about Gohmert having COVID while huddling with other Rs, including Barr. So I’m being gleeful here.

    Also good for Portland. Two reasons to be gleeful!

  73. 73.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Not trying to both-sides it, but there are definitely people on both sides who are just showing up to brawl. I know a couple.

    Here in the Pacific Northwest it is very much a white privilege thing, just like the white privilege of the armed militia nazi types who protested at the MI capital.  There are lots of young white mostly male protesters on both the right and left who like to brawl and break shit.  They would probably get their asses shot if they were black men brawling in the streets.

  74. 74.

    Barbara

    July 29, 2020 at 1:37 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: This is a very well-documented phenomenon that attends every kind of well-publicized unrest, whether it’s football hooliganism or the 1992 LA riots.  Around 1990, in DC, a non-Hispanic female police officer shot and killed a Hispanic immigrant who was threatening her with a knife.  This was a tipping point for certain tensions that had been escalating with the large and growing Spanish speaking community in DC. Three days of looting followed, except most of the arrests that were made were of young males of all races, mostly English speaking, and a large contingent living in the suburbs.  That is, people mostly disconnected from the underlying discontent of living as a Spanish speaking immigrant in a city with law enforcement that resisted hiring any Spanish resources to better communicate with you.  The guy who was shot spoke Spanish.  The officer did not.  Being able to bust up some stuff without consequence apparently appeals to many people who see protests as a chance to release some of their excess energy.

  75. 75.

    Barbara

    July 29, 2020 at 1:42 pm

    @Kent: And African American protesters are no doubt very well aware of that fact.

  76. 76.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 1:42 pm

    @patroclus:

    I don’t deny what’s happening, and the protesters here have policed the idiots pretty actively.

    There is also a history of (white) protest kids in the NW breaking stuff.

    However, most of the comments I’ve seen here conceding that point are based on historical precedent.  From what I’ve seen and heard locally, this protest is different, with disciplined leadership being very focused on BLM.

    I didn’t mean to pick on you, but I too have seen this talking point passed on by locals here, and I don’t think in this instance it is correct.

    To me that phrasing hints at there being valid reasons for the ridiculously disproportionate response of the police to the protestors.  And that’s not what you (or others here) are saying, so it sticks out for me when I hear it.

    I’ll get off my “messaging police” soapbox now.

  77. 77.

    randal m sexton

    July 29, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    So maybe the Fed Goons will be running like rabbits, leaving only the local Goons. You know what they say “Hare today, Goon Tomorrow” (I am so pleased with this comment I will be posting it everywhere ).

  78. 78.

    piratedan

    July 29, 2020 at 1:44 pm

    guessing what this means is that the GOP has lost the media narrative on this issue.  If they had the sympathy of the MSM on this and had their framing adopted (and hadn’t established themselves as bad faith actors) , they would still be doing this because of the red meat factor in how this plays with their base.

    Without that blessing of having their media narrative adopted, then this is a loser for them.  They couldn’t manufacture their own Reichstag Fire moment… THIS TIME.  I fully expect them to cast about and try something else.  I’m sure that their friends in the GRU will offer additional opportunities.

    For all I know, this could have been a massive distraction for them to use to mask their true aim, which was to seize the narrative on the pandemic numbers because that reporting has been brutal in illustrating the lack of the GOP response (and their complete indifference to individuals) so the idea is if there are no numbers to be reporting, then it fades from the daily discourse and offers additional opportunities for them to obfuscate what is going on.

  79. 79.

    Marcopolo

    July 29, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:  Haven’t read past here in the comments but DHS just said they will be sending folks shadow paramilitary forces to Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit over the next few days.  Maybe they think the optics will be better in places with larger melanin enhanced populations.

    The Justice Department plans to send nearly 100 federal agents and officers to Detroit, Cleveland, Ohio, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in an expansion of Operation Legend, a federal crime initiative that began earlier this month.
    The department will send 42 agents to Detroit and more than 25 each to Cleveland and Milwaukee – cities that officials said have seen rising violent crime rates. The federal officers, drawn from the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration and other agencies, will help local and state officials in criminal investigations, the Justice Department said Thursday.
    The announcement comes as state and local officials, drawing from the unrest in Portland, Oregon, are increasingly skeptical and apprehensive of a surge of federal law enforcement resources to their cities. Several big-city mayors have decried the aggressive use of federal forces in Portland and have expressed reservations about the deployments of agents to their cities.

  80. 80.

    Gravenstone

    July 29, 2020 at 1:45 pm

    @Kay: Here’s a nice write up I read earlier over at TPM. Sounds like the things going on in Cleveland (and other cities) is a renaming/rebranding of an expanded enforcement effort started last year.

  81. 81.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:49 pm

    The feds disappear into what now counts as a "small" tear gas cloud in Portland. Protesters heckle them, laughing that "you are running from people with household supplies" "this is my military grade umbrella", etc. pic.twitter.com/9TRdibALGu— Robert Evans (The Only Robert Evans) (@IwriteOK) July 29, 2020

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @patroclus:

    I’m not necessarily in favor of cutting budgets, but I do think that the DHS should be eliminated and the agencies should be returned back to their original administrative locations

    I can agree for most of the groups within DHS.  For ICE and CBP, I think we need to eliminate them completely and start over from scratch.  I’m not sure about USCIS.  But our whole immigration system needs to be completely rethought.

  83. 83.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 29, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Marcopolo:

    Completely different thing.  The agents in that article are actual FBI/ATF, other real law enforcement guys who will be doing real law enforcement stuff.  Nothing to do with the ICE goon squad that drags in protestors on fake arrests and then releases them.  Trump wishes he had a private army of jack-booted thugs he could send to brutally enforce Law and Order and show how tough he is, so he announces everything as if that’s what was happening.

  84. 84.

    Gravenstone

    July 29, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Marcopolo: See my post directly below yours. This “Operation Legend” is a functional renaming of an ongoing enforcement operation started last year. This is not an expansion of the Little Green Men seen in Portland.

  85. 85.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    July 29, 2020 at 1:51 pm

    Open thread, so…

    I’m out of the hospital and recovering from my triple bypass. Apparently I’ve become a bit of a rockstar on the cardiac ward; I had my surgery on Thursday morning and I went directly from ICU to the street on Monday morning, with a lot of the nurses there telling me they’d never seen anyone  bounce back as quickly as I have. I guess I’m a good healer.

    Still feeling a lot of pain, though; my ribs are really letting me know that they’re very very unhappy with the abuse they took during my operation.

    Anyway, I know some folks asked me to post back in when I was through on the other side, and apparently that’s basically now, so… here I am, still vertical. It’s a good thing.

    All my best, folks!

  86. 86.

    trollhattan

    July 29, 2020 at 1:52 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee:

    We’re still having protests in Sacramento and vandalism intermittently occurs concurrently, but with the hallmarks of being opportunistic piggybacking. From some of the targets I infer out-of-towners rather than locals.

  87. 87.

    Kay

    July 29, 2020 at 1:52 pm

    @Gravenstone:

    That was my sense too- rebranded. I was annoyed Barr and Trump have rebranded it but I don’t blame DOJ for that since the DOJ lawyer on the radio repeated over and over that they have done this for years.

    It was amusing how insistent he was that his work is not that of Border Patrol and ICE :)

    Never a good sign for your reputation when people are “we are NOT them!”

  88. 88.

    trollhattan

    July 29, 2020 at 1:53 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Welcome back! Hope we didn’t screw up the joint too badly while you were out. It’ll buff right out.

  89. 89.

    patrick II

    July 29, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @BruceFromOhio:

    If they are staying at one of Trump’s places, certainly.

  90. 90.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    I got up too early this morning, and can’t remember where I read it, but it seems that Chad has also said DHS won’t comply with the Supreme Court ruling on DACA, and is just going to ignore it.

    I get the feeling when that blows back at Trump, we may see a Chad under the bus.

  91. 91.

    Bill Arnold

    July 29, 2020 at 1:54 pm

    @Thaddeu:

    Thirteen on the Court, or this country is toast.

    D.J. Trump is(/has been) laying the political groundwork for “revisiting” Marbury v. Madison..
    Trump Is Now Openly Defying the Supreme Court (MARK JOSEPH STERN, JULY 28, 2020)
    The Republicans are playing with matches and naphtha with these sorts of moves, and with other moves torturing the US Constitution.
    [Narrator: The fire wins, and it burns everyone, including Republicans.]

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 29, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    It’s not up to Pence or others. She negotiated with a guy with no power to negotiate. This is what that person who actually has that power and authority said while she was negotiating with Pence:

    Trump on Portland: "We're not leaving until they secure their city … if they don't secure their city soon, we have no choice — we're gonna have to go in and clean it out." pic.twitter.com/y9xg1fhnnO

    — Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 29, 2020

    And here’s what he said after Governor Brown made her announcement:

    …do not stop the Crime and Violence from the Anarchists and Agitators immediately, the Federal Government will go in and do the job that local law enforcement was supposed to do!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 29, 2020

  93. 93.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:57 pm

    @Barbara: yep. Especially right now when people are bereft of other options for blowing off steam.

  94. 94.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: this squares with what Wolf said, which also squares with a loose interpretation of the Governor’s comments: the feds are standing down, but sticking around town and ready to re-engage if the situation does not improve.

    ETA:

    Federal Agents Agree to Withdraw From Portland, With Conditions

    Under an agreement between Ms. Brown and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the governor’s office said the Oregon State Police will provide security for the exterior of the city’s federal courthouse, while the usual team of federal officers that protects the courthouse year-round will continue to provide security for the interior of the building.

    Ms. Brown said the federal tactical teams that had deployed to the city would begin a phased withdrawal on Thursday. But Chad Wolf, the acting secretary of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, said in a statement that though the department has agreed with the Oregon governor on a plan, the department will proceed with the withdrawal of security personnel in Portland only if federal officials are confident that federal properties will no longer be under attack.

     

     

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/29/us/protests-portland-federal-withdrawal.html#click=https://t.co/knGsABLp4d

  95. 95.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 1:59 pm

    Awwww…..Dump and the rest of the fascist shitstains didn’t get the riotous footage they wanted.

    Well, other than footage of the fascist shitstains they sent in beating up and tear gassing/pepper spraying peaceful protesters.

    More fascist trash to be brought up on charges by President Biden’s AG.

  96. 96.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 2:01 pm

    @opiejeanne:

    Obviously Trump isn’t going to go to Portland, he’s just threatening to what?

    He isn’t making a specific threat so he can’t be held accountable when he fails to follow through.  What he’s really hoping is that once his people stop drawing attention to the situation, Portland will drop out of the news (even if the protests continue) and he can avoid revisiting his threat to go back.

  97. 97.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:01 pm

    Some folks try to engage with the feds, who are more talkative tonight than usual. Note the fully automatic AR-pattern rifles, complete with suppressors. pic.twitter.com/Nwg3gIu1gX— Robert Evans (The Only Robert Evans) (@IwriteOK) July 29, 2020

  98. 98.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 2:03 pm

    @trollhattan:

    It does seem like alot of the out of town agitators that are getting identified are right wingers, and they’re a bit more focused on escalating vandalism than the more recent “hey let’s go fight with antifa” approach of the last few years.

  99. 99.

    Sister Golden Bear

    July 29, 2020 at 2:04 pm

    @Kent:

    I’ve been living in the Portland area long enough to know that there are plenty of young lefty anarchist types who like breaking glass and setting things on fire as well.

    Same here in the Bay Area as well. They’ve been doing so for decades, and they really piss off the organizers of non-violent protests.

    Which is one reason why right-wing agent provocateurs are able to fake “leftist violence.”

    ETA: And yes, they’re pretty all young white dudes. The ones I knew way back when came from pretty privileged backgrounds.

  100. 100.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 29, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Why, thank you, although I might not count, living as I do in Park Slope and not Bushwick…

  101. 101.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 2:06 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:  Yay! I’m glad you’re starting to recover well. When do you start cardiac lab?

  102. 102.

    Hoodie

    July 29, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @Kay: Nancy needs to dramatically cut ICE and CBP funding seeing as they obviously are using forces in Portland that are not needed at the border or for immigration and customs enforcement.  Not sure why ICE needs a riot squad in the first place, since what they do tends to be limited to harassing individuals.  If the border was under attack of a scale that necessitated a militarized response, we do have the National Guard.  They’ve got tanks and helicopters, too.

  103. 103.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @Kent:

    And I’ve been living in the Portland area long enough to know that there are plenty of young lefty anarchist types who like breaking glass and setting things on fire as well.

    My gut feeling is that the lefty anarchists and the Proud Boys are more or less interchangeable.  They’re both a bunch of young white men who want to engage in street brawls.  They’ve chosen political ideologies as their excuse for brawling, but they might as well have chosen sports teams for all the difference it makes in their behavior.

  104. 104.

    Bill Arnold

    July 29, 2020 at 2:08 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee:

    There are protestors who are actively tagging walls with graffiti and an ongoing effort by a small group to dis-assemble the fences/walls. This is not violence.

    Force against physical property, and even threats of force against physical property, are violence in the US Code. This is why the DHS and Barr and all are so freely using the words “violent” and “violence”. It is also being used in full knowledge that most Americans do not know this, i.e. with intent to mislead 10s of millions of Americans.
    18 U.S. Code § 16. Crime of violence defined

    The term “crime of violence” means—
    (a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or

    Also: The Federal “Crime of Violence” Definition: Overview and Judicial Developments (Hillel R. Smith, June 8, 2018)

    (IANAL, so you can’t shoot me. :-)

  105. 105.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 29, 2020 at 2:09 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Now, Barr is defining refusing a lawful order to disperse as violence, which troubles me a lot more.

    Totally. That bothers me too. If refusing to disperse is “violence”, then you can justify literally anything against protesters or anybody else who’s unfortunate enough to be present and in the way

  106. 106.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 2:10 pm

    Well then!

    When a stock climbs 2,441% in one week. pic.twitter.com/iD3ErlrWHk— Tim O'Brien (@TimOBrien) July 29, 2020

  107. 107.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 29, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    Force against physical property, and even threats of force against physical property, are violence in the US Code. This is why the DHS and Barr and all are so freely using the words “violent” and “violence”. It is also being used in full knowledge that most Americans do not know this, i.e. with intent to mislead 10s of millions of Americans.

    But why are Barr et all doing this? Wouldn’t it be more advantageous for them to let the public know that these activities are defined as violent in the US Code?

    If most of the public don’t know that, then they would be more likely to sympathize with the view that the Feds are overreacting over mere graffiti

  108. 108.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 29, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This is what that person who actually has that power and authority

    Everything Trump says is a lie until proven otherwise.  He doesn’t run his government.  Yes, he can and does override people, but that’s a showy 1% of circumstances where 99% of the time he’s yelling something on Twitter or in a press conference which then turns out to exist solely in his imagination.  Whatever is actually happening on the ground in Portland, Trump’s tweets will claim that his mighty fist is all that stands between America and the Brown Hordes.  Because of that, his tweets cannot be taken as evidence.

  109. 109.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:14 pm

    A fed looks down at us. Moments earlier, the crowd chanted for him to jump. pic.twitter.com/4jlKXi0yGd— Robert Evans (The Only Robert Evans) (@IwriteOK) July 29, 2020

    Because the protests happen inthe afternoon/evening/night, the MSM ignored Portland, ( not ready for prime time) for over a month. By the time that the Bunker Baby seized on Portland and “Lawn Orerz! !!!!!” and the MSM started paying attention, coverage of the protests had already been shaped by local Journalists/Activists who are much more Portland Friendly and uninvested in “bothsiderism”.

  110. 110.

    🐾BillinGlendaleCA

    July 29, 2020 at 2:14 pm

    @Lacuna Synechdoche: 15 also allows the Court to set up panels like the appeal courts do to decide cases.  It would allow the Supremes to handle a larger caseload.

  111. 111.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 2:15 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Woo hoo!  Good to hear.

  112. 112.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 2:17 pm

    @Roger Moore:My gut feeling is that the lefty anarchists and the Proud Boys are more or less interchangeable.  They’re both a bunch of young white men who want to engage in street brawls.  They’ve chosen political ideologies as their excuse for brawling, but they might as well have chosen sports teams for all the difference it makes in their behavior.

    This. My view into young white men brawling is from my brother. He’s not a brawler but he worked construction all his life and always had some young guys that as he put it “like to mix it up”. When his crew was working far from home the brawlers on his crew would always find the local small town brawlers. As long as they took it out to the parking lot the bar owners and local police left them to it.

  113. 113.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 2:18 pm

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    It would allow the Supremes to handle a larger caseload. 

    And Ms. Ross could take some well-deserved time off.

  114. 114.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 29, 2020 at 2:18 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    So then why did she negotiate with Pence in the first place? She must’ve known he had no real authority over it. Seriously, she has the Oregon State National Guard under her control. She should’ve just arrested the DHS goons and dropped them off over the Oregon state line

  115. 115.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 29, 2020 at 2:18 pm

    @Kay: I follow a bunch of police abolitionists, and they’ve basically decided that choice is inevitable: the nature of law enforcement is such that it’s worse-than-useless law enforcement or nothing, and since that’s the deal, they choose nothing.

  116. 116.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:18 pm

    PLAYBOOK PM: After we reported that @replouiegohmert was positive, we got an email from a Gohmert aide. pic.twitter.com/x31CSOdkLf— Jake Sherman (@JakeSherman) July 29, 2020

  117. 117.

    JPL

    July 29, 2020 at 2:20 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Wow!   That is good news indeed.

  118. 118.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 29, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Glad to hear it!

  119. 119.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 2:21 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    IIRC the injunction put on the Portland Police says they can’t use tear gas unless threatened with violence, and every night they declare an unlawful gathering, read “failure to disperse” messages over a bullhorn, and then gas the crowd.  They turned over the gassing activities to the Feds while they were here.

    I wonder how much of Barr’s comments is to provide cover for this approach by the police (here and elsewhere) to continue without DHS present.

  120. 120.

    Croaker

    July 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm

    @WhatsMyNym:  <<<<<<<<<<< 100% this covid

  121. 121.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    does the State Line extend 14 nm out to sea?

  122. 122.

    Ken

    July 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm

    @randal m sexton: “Hare today, Goon Tomorrow”

    Wasn’t that one of the wartime cartoons, where Bugs and Daffy team up to tweak Mussolini’s nose?

  123. 123.

    satby

    July 29, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: So glad to see you back and know you’re recovering well! Happy news in an already good news thread!

  124. 124.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Great News!!!!!!!!!!

  125. 125.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:24 pm

    From Day One, I have pressed the Trump administration to withdraw its occupying army from my hometown. I will watchdog today’s announcement to ensure that it happens, and is not the administration’s usual penchant for fiction. https://t.co/UYTHux6lM5— Ron Wyden (@RonWyden) July 29, 2020

  126. 126.

    scav

    July 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm

    Are they really going to try to Mission Accomplished this after their Surge-ing in the US tour? Jesus, it’s a thinly disguised rerun this administration is putting on for summer fare.

  127. 127.

    Baud

    July 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    the nature of law enforcement is such that it’s worse-than-useless law enforcement or nothing

    Other developed countries don’t seem to have the same problems. It can’t be the “nature of law enforcement” that’s the issue.

  128. 128.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 29, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    But why are Barr et all doing this? Wouldn’t it be more advantageous for them to let the public know that these activities are defined as violent in the US Code?

    No, it’s “motte and bailey”, to use a recently overused phrase. The point is to create the impression that the demonstrators are attacking people or planning to do so, without actually saying this. The statements are designed to be technically true while connoting something false, and explaining why they’re technically true would give away the game prematurely.

  129. 129.

    PJ

    July 29, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @Roger Moore: Like the Blues and Greens in Constantinople of yore.

  130. 130.

    RedDirtGirl

    July 29, 2020 at 2:26 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: That is such good news! Thanks for letting us know!

  131. 131.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    July 29, 2020 at 2:27 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Great. Take it easy. Are you able to lever yourself up from lying to sitting?

  132. 132.

    Bill Arnold

    July 29, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @Frank Wilhoit:
    Yeah, this is still a negotiation in progress.
    True Believer Chad Wolf (may we all be able to watch him squirm under oath at his trial) is disagreeing. Probably worth tracking his feed for a few days ( https://twitter.com/DHS_Wolf ):

    The state of Oregon is finally agreeing to cooperate with our federal forces–exactly what we asked for since the nightly violence broke out two months ago.

    We’re glad Oregon is now correcting their months long error.
    — Acting Secretary Chad Wolf (@DHS_Wolf) July 29, 2020

    We will maintain our current, augmented federal law enforcement personnel in Portland until we are assured that the Hatfield Federal Courthouse and other federal properties will no longer be attacked and that the seat of justice in Portland will remain secure.
    — Acting Secretary Chad Wolf (@DHS_Wolf) July 29, 2020

  133. 133.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    So then why did she negotiate with Pence in the first place? She must’ve known he had no real authority over it. Seriously, she has the Oregon State National Guard under her control. She should’ve just arrested the DHS goons and dropped them off over the Oregon state line

    Ummm.  No.  The Oregon National Guard is not Brown’s private army and they are probably majority Trump supporters.  It is mostly populated with rural folks from red parts of the state.  And they have no more authority to arrest Federal officers than DHS officers have to arrest protesters.

  134. 134.

    Ksmiami

    July 29, 2020 at 2:29 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: that’s why we need trials, hangings etc. we must make an example of these people so no one dare try it in the future. burn the GOP to the ground- they’ve earned it

  135. 135.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:30 pm

    These aren't the Feds, for a reminder. This is city police. It's not just some Trump jackboot tactic; this is what law enforcement in this country *is*. https://t.co/W11akL0xkQ— Heather Alexandra (@transgamerthink) July 28, 2020

  136. 136.

    JAFD

    July 29, 2020 at 2:33 pm

    Defunding police, explained (quite well, IMHO) in cartoon

    http://mudcompany.thecomicseries.com/comics/148/

  137. 137.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    @Marcopolo: Okay, here we go. Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee: all blue cities in swing states that went for Trump last time and have some chance of going blue this time. If what they want to do is swing the November election by force, those cities are on the list.

  138. 138.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm

     

     

    @Kay:  I am reminded of something Steinbeck once wrote:

    “Americans are always fighting our way in, then trying to buy our way out.”

  139. 139.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:34 pm

    @Baud:

    it’s the combination of “Cop Culture”, and the “nature of law enforcement”. Some other Western Democracies have similar issues, mostly where the TV’s are filled with Copaganda and the protection of property is prioritized as high or higher, than persons.

  140. 140.

    Spanky

    July 29, 2020 at 2:36 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Awesome news! Now nurse those ribs, ‘kay?

  141. 141.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 2:36 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: What VDE is referencing:

    Portland protesters released from jail on condition they no longer attend protests

    Federal authorities are using a new tactic in their battle against protesters in Portland, Oregon: arrest them on offenses as minor as “failing to obey” an order to get off a sidewalk on federal property — and then tell them they can’t protest anymore as a condition for release from jail.

    Legal experts describe the move as a blatant violation of the constitutional right to free assembly, but at least 12 protesters arrested in recent weeks have been specifically barred from attending protests or demonstrations as they await trials on federal misdemeanor charges.

    “Defendant may not attend any other protests, rallies, assemblies or public gathering in the state of Oregon,” states one “Order Setting Conditions of Release” for an accused protester, alongside other conditions such as appearing for court dates. The orders are signed by federal magistrate judges.

    For other defendants, the restricted area is limited to Portland, where clashes between protesters and federal troops have grown increasingly violent in recent weeks. In at least two cases, there are no geographic restrictions; one release document instructs, “Do not participate in any protests, demonstrations, rallies, assemblies while this case is pending.”

    Protesters who have agreed to stay away from further demonstrations say they felt forced to accept those terms to get out of jail.

  142. 142.

    Bill Arnold

    July 29, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    @piratedan:

    guessing what this means is that the GOP has lost the media narrative on this issue. If they had the sympathy of the MSM on this and had their framing adopted (and hadn’t established themselves as bad faith actors) , they would still be doing this because of the red meat factor in how this plays with their base.

    Media people, both video and those in print with a byline, do observe feedback. E.g. many of them get very few responses to their tweets, many of them with close to no semantic content, and probably read many of them; media people are high-leverage if one is looking to influence narratives. Also management listens to comments, e.g. boycott threats.

  143. 143.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    Gee, I wonder why the announcement that the "tampon" dumped into on an off-duty LAPD officer's drink was actually a common cloth and the revelation that the investigation was unable to prove malice was slipped out at 8:24 p.m. on a Tuesday? pic.twitter.com/rhjKnlXeEN— James Queally (@JamesQueallyLAT) July 29, 2020

  144. 144.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    For you Angelenos.

    Hey, neighbors: probably a terrific idea to stop giving money to these dangerous loons. There are plenty of coffee houses in Hollywood who aren't serving COVID-19 lattes. https://t.co/PADJd6wUB3— David Avallone (@DAvallone) July 29, 2020

  145. 145.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    @Thaddeu:

    15, not 13.

    Otherwise, I agree.

  146. 146.

    Baud

    July 29, 2020 at 2:39 pm

    Somewhat OT. This LGM post on military recruitment is an interesting take on the CW.

  147. 147.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 2:40 pm

    @Barbara:

    This is a very well-documented phenomenon that attends every kind of well-publicized unrest, whether it’s football hooliganism or the 1992 LA riots.

    I think you’re wrong about the Rodney King riots.  There were obviously some really bad incidents that were random people taking advantage of the disorder to brawl in the streets- the attacks at Florence and Normandie were the most famous example- but that was not the biggest event.  The single biggest part of the riot was an anti-Korean pogrom that devastated Koreatown.  It wasn’t obviously related to the King verdict, but it was an obvious and coordinated attack, not random violence by people who just wanted an excuse to fight.

  148. 148.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 2:42 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    We could just call them Blues and Greens and send them to the races.

  149. 149.

    trollhattan

    July 29, 2020 at 2:45 pm

    @Leto:

    So, in summary:

    • Exercise rights to free speech and assembly.
    • Be arrested for the act of exercising those rights.
    • Surrender those rights as the price of being released from unlawful arrest and detention.

    Do I have that right? My government mid-term is coming up.

  150. 150.

    japa21

    July 29, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    Question, actually a couple.

    Are the Federal buildings in Portland owned by the US Government or rented?

    Have the “protestors”, “anarchists” etc gone into the buildings and damaged anything?

    If they buildings are rented, then the buildings themselves are not federal property. If the “rioters” have not gone into the buildings, then federal property is not being damaged or destrpyed.

    Not that it really matters, but I am curious.

  151. 151.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    @Baud:Somewhat OT. This LGM post on military recruitment is an interesting take on the CW.

    A yes the belief that Army recruits the poor and stupid. My cousin, retired Command Sergeant Major has a Masters degree. All of his college education was paid for by the Army while he served.

  152. 152.

    Baud

    July 29, 2020 at 2:47 pm

    @japa21:

    Rented space is still federal property during the period of tenancy.

  153. 153.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 2:47 pm

    @RedDirtGirl: Class traitor! //

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Welcome back! Sounds like you’re doing great, all things considered!

  154. 154.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    As @tuckwoodstock highlights, the occupying feds in Portland appear to be engaged in targeting protesters and press alike with headshots with their riot munitions pic.twitter.com/kOp3AJ26qQ— Tim Dickinson (@7im) July 28, 2020

  155. 155.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    July 29, 2020 at 2:49 pm

    @Leto:

    The orders are signed by federal magistrate judges.

    Federal judges fucking signed these orders. They should know better than anybody else how this violates the right to peacefully assemble

  156. 156.

    SFBayAreaGal

    July 29, 2020 at 2:50 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: I loved the tweet that said how to fail your business in one tweet.

  157. 157.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    @Baud: I have some issues with this but overall in agreement. I’ve said this for years, but if you want a better military you have to have better recruits. It’s not enough to have better civilian leadership, but you have to have better people in the organization. Not sure how to square that with most liberals/progressives.

  158. 158.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    they’ve basically decided that choice is inevitable: the nature of law enforcement is such that it’s worse-than-useless law enforcement or nothing, and since that’s the deal, they choose nothing.

    I think they’re wrong, though I totally understand where they’re coming from.  The underlying problem is that we have unjust laws designed to enforce an unjust social system.  When you demand police enforce laws designed to keep minorities down, you will wind up with corrupt, racist police forces no matter how clean they start out.  We can’t fix the problem with our police until we reform our laws.

  159. 159.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    @trollhattan: You’ve just passed your Trumpov-istan citizenship test!

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Dollars to donuts it’s Trumpov/Republican judge. They’re more than happy to strip people’s rights.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    July 29, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    @Leto:

    I’m get uncomfortable with the idea that there are some jobs that liberals don’t do.  Cop, prosecutor, soldier, business, etc.  Any job that needs to be done should be done by our people.

  161. 161.

    FelonyGovt

    July 29, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    Trump’s latest racist dogwhistle is getting into human hearing range

  162. 162.

    FelonyGovt

    July 29, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Great news! Thanks for posting.

  163. 163.

    Kent

    July 29, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    @japa21:

    Question, actually a couple.

    Are the Federal buildings in Portland owned by the US Government or rented?

    Have the “protestors”, “anarchists” etc gone into the buildings and damaged anything?

    If they buildings are rented, then the buildings themselves are not federal property. If the “rioters” have not gone into the buildings, then federal property is not being damaged or destrpyed.

    Not that it really matters, but I am curious.

    They are owned by the GSA like most Federal buildings.  And no, it doesn’t matter when it comes to Federal jurisdiction.

  164. 164.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

    Mmmm, good point, and SHOCKING that Barr would be playing word games.

    I think people get that property “violence” is a crime, but as you point out don’t see it the same as personal violence.  And there’s less sympathy from the public for treating it as violence after the DHS and police responses.

  165. 165.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 2:58 pm

    The

    weird how it’s just kinda normal now that protesters get hit by cars, shot at, killed, by white supremacists. it’s not even huge news when it happens.— p.e. moskowitz (@_pem_pem) July 27, 2020

  166. 166.

    Amir Khalid

    July 29, 2020 at 3:00 pm

    @FelonyGovt:

    That’s not a working link.

  167. 167.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    @JAFD:

    Defunding police, explained (quite well, IMHO) in cartoon

    The problem is that there’s a complete disconnect between what’s shown in that cartoon and what an ordinary person would understand from the slogan “defund the police”.  That doesn’t mean the idea is bad, but it needs better marketing.

  168. 168.

    japa21

    July 29, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    @Baud:

     

    @Kent:  Thank you both.

  169. 169.

    randal m sexton

    July 29, 2020 at 3:01 pm

    @Ken: I know it was some kind of joke I heard once, I was just happy to apply it to this case.   I went to the Oakland demonstration on Saturday, and am pretty gratified to think that that maybe the push back worked this time.  I’m maybe a high risk individual, so going to these things seems kinda dodgy.

  170. 170.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 3:02 pm

    @Baud: Agreed. It’s the same thing leveled at Kamala: she can’t be trusted because she was an AG/DA/in “the system”. You have to have a confluence of both internal/external pressure on the system to make effective change. Yes the military is highly resistant to change and for the most part It can ward off that pressure to change because most of that impetus is from the outside. The internal structures will hold for a long time. You have to have pressure from both sides.

  171. 171.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:03 pm

    Hahaha – take a couple minutes

    With a #stumundel commentary #skyfox #pursuit #policepursuit #pursuitgods @Stu_Mundel @ChaseAlert @socal_pursuits @LACoScanner @Venice311 @PDRScanner @RivCoScanner @sgvscanner pic.twitter.com/Sv6IAXcEal— DJTru (@DJTru) July 29, 2020

  172. 172.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 3:04 pm

    “You take an aggressive approach to Black Lives Matrer protests. But not to right wing extremists threatening to lynch a governor, if it’s for the president’s benefit. Did I get it right, Mr. Barr?” – @RepJayapal https://t.co/7lbcm0GdoG— Akela Lacy (@akela_lacy) July 28, 2020

  173. 173.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:04 pm

    @Kent:  It sounds a lot like the way some folks around here treat church, or protesting PP clinics. It is a socializing/networking thing first and foremost.

  174. 174.

    FelonyGovt

    July 29, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Sorry, I guess I don’t get how to embed tweets. Here’s what it said:

    I am happy to inform all of the people living their Suburban Lifestyle Dream that you will no longer be bothered or financially hurt by having low income housing built in your neighborhood…

  175. 175.

    Baud

    July 29, 2020 at 3:06 pm

    @Leto:

    Yes the military is highly resistant to change and for the most part It can ward off that pressure to change because most of that impetus is from the outside.

    People understandably hated “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” but by lifting the complete ban on gays in the military, it helped open up “inside” pressure for change that complemented the outside pressure.

    It’s also why our side has pushed diversity and inclusion in so many areas.  To change the make-up of the people on the inside.

  176. 176.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    @Ksmiami: Stop with the hangings. No one is getting hanged. If any are guilty of treason by the Constitution they can be executed, imprisoned, or fined. We’re having enough death in this country. Let’s limit the death here.

  177. 177.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:08 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    The problem is that there’s a complete disconnect between what’s shown in that cartoon and what an ordinary person would understand from the slogan “defund the police”.  That doesn’t mean the idea is bad, but it needs better marketing. 

    It would help if the slogan wasn’t shit.

    What’s wrong with “Demilitarize the police”?  It’s understandable and doesn’t make it sound like a bunch of morons want to abolish police departments.

  178. 178.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:10 pm

    @Yutsano: What’s your preferred method for executing people sentenced to death for treason?

  179. 179.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 3:10 pm

    First it was Portland. Now it’s New Yorkers that are being abducted by unidentified officers and thrown in unmarked vans.Congress must pass legislation to end this authoritarian overreach. pic.twitter.com/Yn34K7h3OF— Julián Castro (@JulianCastro) July 29, 2020

  180. 180.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 3:12 pm

    @Roger Moore: @mrmoshpotato:

    Defund/abolish the police is a garbage slogan, always has been, if you have to explain that every single person who hears it doesn’t understand it, if you need a cartoon to make sense of it… the problem is not everybody else.

    Preaching to the choir, I know. Letting people who literally want to get rid of the police make up the slogan was perhaps an error.

  181. 181.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:12 pm

    @Kent:

    Is it possible they BADLY misinterpreted the Malheur standoff or something? Like, they thought the wingnut militia would show up and they’d have a war in the streets? I have heard east Oregon is basically just the rougher parts of  Appalachia with more rain. (Those folks were from Washington, fwiw)

    Which would still be a bumbling misread of the sitch, but I am trying to figure the thought process.

  182. 182.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 29, 2020 at 3:12 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: …life in prison

  183. 183.

    CaseyL

    July 29, 2020 at 3:15 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:   Go, you!  Very happy to hear the surgery went well – and, yes, being out of the hospital and on your feet that fast is pretty darn amazing.

  184. 184.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 3:15 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:What’s wrong with “Demilitarize the police”?

    I’m of the opinion that our military is better than our police. My cop/military sample size is small and they are all relatives so not statistically impressive.

  185. 185.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:15 pm

    @robmassing:

    Remember when everybody mailed dildos to the wingnuts up in Malheur?

     

    These are the same fucking people that got themselves penned up in an arboretum, just on our payroll.

  186. 186.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    @Subsole:I have heard east Oregon is basically just the rougher parts of  Appalachia with more rain.

    High desert so Appalachia with less rain.

  187. 187.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    ‘Light diffracting through hummingbird wings’ pic.twitter.com/nKoHK4ixf8— maya (@bellsofatlantis) July 24, 2020

  188. 188.

    Roger Moore

    July 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: 
    If you want to sell it suburban whites, you need to focus on how it’s going to make policing better by saying something like, “Let the police focus on real crime”. It gets the idea that the police are being asked to do all kinds of stuff that would be handled better by social workers or mental health professionals. By sneaking in the “real” in front of crime, it also opens the door to redefining petty stuff as civil rather than criminal offenses.

  189. 189.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm

    @patrick II: Are there any Trump/Kushner properties in those towns?

  190. 190.

    Richard Guhl

    July 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm

    @Bill Arnold: I suspect that polling of suburban women got worse for Trump after the news coverage of what’s happened in Portland.

  191. 191.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Speaking strictly for myself, I would favor prison terms.  We don’t have be who we think they would be.

    If you want executions, they will always be over my objections.

  192. 192.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:23 pm

    @Roger Moore: Agreed.  And yeah, police have to deal with a ridiculous amount of things that aren’t crime from mental health issues to well…..people have called the Chicago police over their kids not doing their homework – seriously.

  193. 193.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 3:24 pm

    @Baud: and apparently the dipshits really are going forward with moving a ton of military assets out of Germany. Trumpov didn’t discuss bounties with Putin, but I guess he was making sure he got all of the things Putin wanted moved. Lacking words for this atm.

  194. 194.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 29, 2020 at 3:25 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    NYPD to BORTAC goons, as they’re locking up and beating everybody in Federal desert camo:

    “Fuck off, fucking fuckface. Somebody gonna treat Noo Yawkahs like shit, it’s gonna be us.

    Quit bleedin’ on my fist, that’s fuckin’ disgusting.”

  195. 195.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:27 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Read again what Yutsano wrote.

    Stop with the hangings. No one is getting hanged. If any are guilty of treason by the Constitution they can be executed, imprisoned, or fined.

    Get why I asked my question?

  196. 196.

    lofgren

    July 29, 2020 at 3:27 pm

    @Kelly: I’ve known people like this most of my life. The thing to remember is that they really are passionate about their views, it’s just that their desire to brawl informs the style of their expression.

    Like, because you are just as happy brawling over sports teams, you had better be ready to brawl over politics, and if you’re not out there trying to find a brawl in order to constantly prove your manliness then you are a pussy who is not committed enough to the cause/sports team.

  197. 197.

    lofgren

    July 29, 2020 at 3:30 pm

    @Roger Moore: I dunno man. I’m pretty sure that a lot of conservatives would hear that slogan and take away “Let law enforcement deal with the real crime Blacks.”

  198. 198.

    Ken

    July 29, 2020 at 3:32 pm

    @randal m sexton: Actually I was kidding, “Hare Today Goon Tomorrow” is not a Bugs Bunny cartoon. But it should be.

  199. 199.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 3:34 pm

    @Subsole:

    There are parts of Eastern Oregon where the entire population could have shown up in Portland and no one would notice.

    I think it was the place getting the most attention on Fox News that week.  Seriously….

  200. 200.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 3:34 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:  There is no method of execution that does not involve pain for the recipient. Since execution is not mandatory and there is no upper limit on the fine, life imprisonment without parole and seizure of all assets works just fine for me.

  201. 201.

    mrmoshpotato

    July 29, 2020 at 3:35 pm

    @Leto: This might help.

  202. 202.

    hotshoe

    July 29, 2020 at 3:37 pm

    Oh thank god!

    I was trying to figure out, this morning, how I could make the loooong two-day drive to Portland to stand with the Moms for the next week. Now I’m relieved that I don’t feel morally obliged.

    And if the fed troops had planned to invade another west coast city (Dumpster’s threat: Oakland) then this Portland withdrawal might derail such a plan.

    Buys us all some breathing room, at least.

  203. 203.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    @Kelly:

    Gotcha. Thanks for the correction.

    I thought there was a lot of logging up there, though? Or am I mixing up my regions?

  204. 204.

    J R in WV

    July 29, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    I’m out of the hospital and recovering from my triple bypass.

    Thanks for checking in. I’ve never had cardiac problems (so far!) but friends and co-workers who have had cardiac surgeries tell me that the pain of the surgery fades faster than you would think, and that the benefits of improved oxygen blood levels come on even faster than that.

    One guy who worked in Philadelphia for the Region III office of EPA said he felt 20 years younger 4 days after his cardiac work, but Joe’s didn’t involve ribs being forcefully separated. I’m sure that’s terribly painful. Wife broke 2 ribs last fall, was kinda miserable for several weeks.

    Best of luck Polyorchnid, sounds like the work is all downhill now!! Keep us posted, please.

    I have it on good authority that browsing Balloon Juice is good for your whole body AND your spirit, so keep up the good work!

  205. 205.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 29, 2020 at 3:47 pm

    @hotshoe:  Let’s not refer to these thugs as troops.

  206. 206.

    geg6

    July 29, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    @Baud:

    As a campus VA School Certifying Official, I work with young veterans every day, helping them get their VA educational benefits and making sure they are flowing as they should.  I can tell you that very few of them are Trumpsters.  These kids (I’m 61, everyone under that is a kid) are diverse, both racially and by gender, and I have yet to see one, other than one who was an MP in the military and is a cop now, who supports Trump.  They are very, very, very, very different from the Vietnam vets around here who are all, to a man, Trumpsters of the first degree.  First, like I said, there are a lot of women, Hispanics and Black vets.  Second, their very generous GI Bill benefits allow them to seek higher education with no debt.  Every single VV vet I know is a man and none of them have more than a high school diploma, if that.

  207. 207.

    Kelly

    July 29, 2020 at 3:48 pm

    @Subsole:I thought there was a lot of logging up there, though? Or am I mixing up my regions?

    Eastern Oregon and Washington is mostly high desert sagebrush steppe in the rain shadow of the Cascades. Here and there small mountain ranges stick up high enough to catch enough rain for pine forests which support some logging. Not as much logging anymore since the trees grow slower than we cut them.

  208. 208.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    July 29, 2020 at 3:50 pm

    @LeftCoastYankee:  At least one of the people setting fires in Nashville during the protests here—the man arrested for throwing the Molotov cocktails into the Old Courthouse* here—was identified as a RWNJ white supremacist, complete with III% tattoos. So I’m inclined to suspect this of most examples of significant damage.

    *Office buildings nearly always have sprinkler systems. If these aren’t required by law, they’re required by insurance. Which is why I’m so dubious about that burned police precinct building in Minneapolis. What happened to the sprinklers?

  209. 209.

    Leto

    July 29, 2020 at 3:50 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:  I’d gladly wear that. If they want to wear “Fuck your feelings” t-shirts, well here’s the counter.

  210. 210.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:53 pm

    @Leto:

    I…wut?

    We’re evacuating fucking GERMANY?

    Like, “Here’s the keys to Ramstein AFB, have fun?”

    Assuming this isn’t one of tjose idiotic decrees that the military slow walks until it is no longer operative, that is catastrophically stupid on ALL sides.

    I mean, Russia wouldn’t actually be THAT fucking stupid, would they? If they roll on Central Europe, that is war. Period. With or without us.

  211. 211.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 3:58 pm

    @Kelly:

    Yeah. One guy had family in the logging business and he said climate change  was wrecking their shit. Lots of blight, lots of bugs killing off the trees.

    And, as you said, rampant clearcutting.

  212. 212.

    Subsole

    July 29, 2020 at 4:06 pm

    Dead thread??

     

     

     

     

     

    “Gooooooons  – out

    for

    summer!

    Gooooooooons – out

    for

    ever!”

  213. 213.

    Ken

    July 29, 2020 at 4:07 pm

    @Subsole: And, as you said, rampant clearcutting.

    Wait, are we talking about eastern Oregon, or Easter Island?

  214. 214.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 4:10 pm

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio:

    I don’t doubt it with the reports of the boogaloo chuckleheads trying to get involved pretty openly.

    I think the “funniest” vandalism here was a window broken caused by a policeman slapping the phone out of a protestor’s (maybe a journo?) hand and it smashing a window nearby.

    The broken window of course precipitated the need for ample tear gas.

    At any rate, I’m highly skeptical that teargassing protestors is the best way to stop vandalism.

  215. 215.

    Wapiti

    July 29, 2020 at 4:10 pm

    @Subsole: I have heard east Oregon is basically just the rougher parts of  Appalachia with more rain.

    Eastern Oregon is very arid; practically high desert. Eastern Washington, too, maybe to a lesser degree. The Cascades Mountains drop most of the moisture coming off the ocean.

  216. 216.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 29, 2020 at 4:11 pm

    @trollhattan:

    That’s your vaunted Federal judiciary after a few decades of Federalist society picks.

    There are many Federal courthouses that need to burn with their Federal judges inside. I’d happily stand there with spears of marshmallows, graham crackers and decent chocolate (not Hershey, that shit is gross).

  217. 217.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    July 29, 2020 at 4:17 pm

    @Yutsano: Not sure what you mean by cardiac lab?

  218. 218.

    Sebastian

    July 29, 2020 at 4:19 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Law Enforcement, by nature of their responsibilities must be policed outside a legal system in which their future cooperation is a vantage point, see reluctance of DAs to prosecute lest they face passive resistance in future cases.

    Like we have in the military the military police, we need a police force for LE. In parallel a court system akin the court martial system, which could be initially staffed by retired (high ranking) military, JAG, and police officers.

    This court has to be able to do what the armed forced court martial can: stripping rank/demotion, incarceration, expulsion with loss of pension, and such.

    These guys want to play soldiers with none of the responsibilities. Unless we get every municipality to follow the Camden model this problem will not go away, LE has zero accountability right now and that has to change.

    The obvious challenge is accountability of this force and institution, constitutional legality, and how to prevent it being undermined by rightwingers. The only way I see this working (and the whole thing might be a colossally moronic idea) would be a healthy exchange and cross-accountability with the current military judicial system. We need a healthy institution to supervise and guide a newer one so we do not have a repeat of DHS.

  219. 219.

    J R in WV

    July 29, 2020 at 4:21 pm

    deleted

  220. 220.

    LeftCoastYankee

    July 29, 2020 at 4:21 pm

    @Subsole:

    The logging is on the Western side of the Cascades (there are some forests in Northeast Oregon and Northeast Washington (around Spokane), but the logging there wasn’t as intensive as in the West.

    The logging was mostly in the small towns in Western WA and OR.  Those towns got clobbered economically when the industry collapsed.  They would probably fit the Rainy Appalachia quip your friend had.

    The Malheur occupation worked because more people showed up with guns than were involved in LE for probably 100 miles.  Eastern Oregon is probably more comparable to Wyoming or Montana.

    But yeah, they probably hate Portland too.

  221. 221.

    J R in WV

    July 29, 2020 at 4:24 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Not sure what you mean by cardiac lab?

    I think he meant cardiac rehab, which a spell checker could transform into cardiac lab pretty easily.

  222. 222.

    Hoppie

    July 29, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    @patroclus: I was disappointed that Obama did not at least rename the “Department of Fascist Nomenclature”.  I would guess he decided it wasn’t worth the political capital.

  223. 223.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    July 29, 2020 at 4:27 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I was on my feet on Friday, about 30 hours after the operation. Did it myself (I know about the whole clench and roll because of other people I’ve known who’ve had this surgery); when I appeared out of my bay the nurses were all like “whoa whoa whoa what do you think you’re doing?”

    I dunno about the US, but as I understand it they do want people up out of bed pretty quick after cardiac surgery because it helps with the recovery around lungs and breathing. By Saturday I was going for little walks to go sit outside the main entrance to the hospital after I managed to convince them that my balance was good. That took a while, but I got there. Part of it involved me going “look check this out” while dancing a little jig.

    I credit some of it to the fact that as a musician I play a gig to a gig and a half a week, so I’m actually in decent shape despite its roundness because three sets of blues, funk, or rock is a pretty high energy output activity. I think I credit the rest of it to my attitude of “meh it’s only pain”.

    But yeah, I got told that I blew quite a few people away with how fast I was on the move.

  224. 224.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    July 29, 2020 at 4:28 pm

    @Spanky: Tell me about it. They are really letting me know that they’re unhappy with how things have gone today ;)

  225. 225.

    Jinchi

    July 29, 2020 at 4:31 pm

    @Frank Wilhoit: while Pence (and Trump, and Barr, and Wolf, and whoever) shrug and say, we don’t know who these guys are, they’re not ours…

    If the feds denied these guys, then they’d be treated the same as a right wing militia. They’d have no authority to fire weapons within the city, no right to seize protesters off the streets and even dressing in generically marked “POLICE” gear would subject them to charges of impersonating law enforcement.

    They’d lose all legal protection and would not be able to continue with the same playbook. The only reason they get away with it now is under color of law.

  226. 226.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 4:38 pm

    I've gotten to know Portland police well in a decade plus of public defense work & journalism. The level of contempt they have for authority and oversight is intense & without irony (1)— Rene Denfeld (@ReneDenfeld) July 26, 2020

  227. 227.

    lowtechcyclist

    July 29, 2020 at 4:41 pm

    @Kay:

    I’m pleased they’re leaving but I still want to cut their budget. They’re gigantic and bloated and unaccountable.

    This.  Clearly there had to be A LOT of superfluous CBP and ICE agents who didn’t need to be doing real work somewhere else. (ICE as a whole is superfluous as far as I’m concerned.  CBP has actual work to do, but apparently they’ve got a lot more agents than necessary work.)

    Pelosi could and should hold up the Homeland Security appropriations bill for FY21 unless/until the Dems get everything they want out of the COVID bill – aid to unemployed continued at the current level, aid to cash-strapped states, USPS rescue.  The whole nine yards.

  228. 228.

    Mary Ellen Sandahl

    July 29, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    Just started reading post, and I’m sure someone’s already screeched this in at least one of the 225-plus posts above, but I can’t contain myself:
    That’s Governor Brown to you, New York Times, you sexist entitled rag!!!

  229. 229.

    The Pale Scot

    July 29, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    @Kent:

    I was living in Seattle during the whole WTO protests what? 2-decades ago now?

    IMHO those asses should have been beat up, zipped tied and left on the street for cops to pick up. The videos of privileged suburban white dickheads smashing windows and ignoring AA folks entreating to stop fucking up BLM protests enraged me. I have no sympathy for them. Club them all down like baby seals. During the WTO protests the trade union guys who protesting should have surrounded the place the anarchists were using as a base, gone in and tuned them up. Privileged twits need to learn somethun’ about reality

  230. 230.

    The Pale Scot

    July 29, 2020 at 5:01 pm

    @randal m sexton:

    Come out you black and tans,come out and fight me like a man
    Show your wives how you won medals down in Flanders
    Tell them how the I.R.A. made you run like hell away
    From the green and lovely lakes of Killesshandra.

    Come tell us how you slew them poor arabs two by two
    Like the Zulu they had spears and bow and arrows
    How bravely you faced one with your sixteen pounder gun

    Till you frightened them poor natives to their marrow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN1fdZdJCS4

  231. 231.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 29, 2020 at 5:01 pm

    @Mary Ellen Sandahl: Actually, that is something not to get worked up about.  The Times, I believe, only uses a person’s title the first time it refers to someone in an article.  After that,  it is Mr or Ms.

  232. 232.

    J R in WV

    July 29, 2020 at 5:04 pm

    @Jinchi:

    They’d lose all legal protection and would not be able to continue with the same playbook. The only reason they get away with it now is under color of law.

     

    So… that would be a good thing, right? Go directly to Jail, Do Not pass GO, do not Collect $200. Hire a very expensive lawyer, go broke, plead guilty, go to jail… Sounds good to me!

  233. 233.

    The Pale Scot

    July 29, 2020 at 5:06 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:

    Good job mate

  234. 234.

    J R in WV

    July 29, 2020 at 5:08 pm

    @Mary Ellen Sandahl:

    July 29, 2020 at 4:50 pm

    Just started reading post, and I’m sure someone’s already screeched this in at least one of the 225-plus posts above, but I can’t contain myself:
    That’s Governor Brown to you, New York Times, you sexist entitled rag!!!

    Nope, you are the first commenter to post a comment. But I did think it loudly to myself. Bet they wouldn’t do that to a male Republican office holder!!!

    Maybe they would, style may be use a title first use, Mr. Mrs. or Ms after first use.

    As in “Mr. Trump  continues to act like a deranged loon!” deep in the article, after first specifying that Mr Trump is President of the United States in the lede.

  235. 235.

    evodevo

    July 29, 2020 at 5:08 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Yes.  In the small town 15 miles from me, the newspaper prints ALL the news, including details of police calls.  At least once a week there’s someone calling the cops because Jr. bad-mouthed dad, or wouldn’t put down the I-phone and listen to mom or whatever, or ran off to friend’s house and wouldn’t come back.  it’s amazing how much poor parenting there is that could use a good, free counseling service lol

  236. 236.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 5:11 pm

    As faith in institutions collapses + popular rebellion grows, both Trump + Biden have attacked anarchists – likening them to terrorism + chaos. But what is anarchism, a movement nearly destroyed by fascism + Stalinism + given new life in struggles against neoliberalism? A thread. pic.twitter.com/ecRugLJtwo— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) July 29, 2020

    thread with history —just in my own experience anarchists are also among the kindest & gentlest people I know, working hard to actually get resources to people in myriad creative, mutable ways. librarians, gardeners, educators, cooks—the best kinds of fighters https://t.co/MI7sEtrjjd— Conrad Tao (@conradtao) July 29, 2020

    The roots of American “Law Enforcement” are in Slave Catchers and the roots of Criminal Laws protecting “property” are in slavery.

  237. 237.

    Jay

    July 29, 2020 at 5:17 pm

    The recent 'Blue Leaks' for example, show that while far-Right + white power violence is growing exponentially, the FBI and DHS are obsessed with Black Lives Matter, anarchists, and antifa – to the point of even believing far-Right conspiracy theories. https://t.co/Z0lfWRFfbh— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) July 29, 2020

  238. 238.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    July 29, 2020 at 5:19 pm

    @J R in WV: Yeah, the ribs are feeling might tender today. I’m working it. It makes breathing hard; the docs told me that a lot of the pain should have faded by the beginning of September (and yes this is a consequence of the open-heart part of the surgery) and that I should really be firing on all cylinders by winter solstice.

  239. 239.

    planetjanet

    July 29, 2020 at 5:19 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch:  Welcome back! Such good news.

  240. 240.

    Omnes Omnibus

    July 29, 2020 at 5:22 pm

    @J R in WV: The first three words of the article are “Gov. Kate Brown.”

  241. 241.

    Chyron HR

    July 29, 2020 at 6:05 pm

    @Jay:

    Do you know that “neoliberalism” is a red flag that you’re a fucking moron?

  242. 242.

    Mary Ellen Sandahl

    July 29, 2020 at 6:54 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I draw in my horns; I did not know that was the NYT official style.
    In my sort-of defense, I don’t subscribe to the Times (too expensive), and only saw the exerpt in the post, which is some way down-column from the beginning of the actual article.

    Also, it does happen that proper expressions of respect to the titles of female leaders – elected and otherwise – often does not drop naturally from the lips of some people. Even the lips of the president of these United States. So one’s nerves get a little raw after a while. Anyway, thanks for the heads-up, Omnes.

  243. 243.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    July 29, 2020 at 6:59 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: Awesome news, especially now!

    🍾🥂🎉🎈👍🏻

  244. 244.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    July 29, 2020 at 7:49 pm

    • @Major Major Major Major:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @Yutsano:

    How about Edward Everett Hale’s approach? (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/15868/15868-h/15868-h.htm )

  245. 245.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio

    July 29, 2020 at 7:50 pm

    @Jay: Oooooooooo.

  246. 246.

    Chris Johnson

    July 29, 2020 at 8:07 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: This. This, all day. Prison, not vengeance, not hangings, not the whole Mussolini deal. We don’t have to have our civilization so wrecked that we visit an eye for an eye on these people who are no better than serial killers.

  247. 247.

    Chris Johnson

    July 29, 2020 at 8:11 pm

    @a thousand flouncing lurkers was fidelio: Reichstags ain’t gonna burn themselves.

    More relevantly, Trump and Putin ain’t necessarily as competent as the Nazis. There’s a whole lot of ‘getting the entire populace on board’ that they deem unnecessary and that is a bad, bad mistake on their part.

    In fairness it’s an impossible task. This is America.

  248. 248.

    Aziz, light!

    July 29, 2020 at 8:29 pm

    I know it’s pointless to pursue this here with those of you who are all dewy eyed about the battle for Portland. The reason there’s a fence in front of the Mark Hatfield Federal Courthouse, and federal law enforcement behind it, is to prevent the anarchists from trashing or burning the building’s interior. Do you all not want a federal courthouse protected? I’m not happy that trump sent in his hot to trot ICE and CBP guys, but the core group of LEO’s are Federal Protective Service with a thankless task to perform, and they aren’t going anywhere. I know four of them personally because they’re stationed in my building two doors down (the Portland federal building) and I’ve worked with them for 7 years as a member of the building emergency team (evac drills, active shooter training, etc.). The FPS people I know are highly trained, responsible, by the book professionals. They are not goons. If trump had any brains, he would take the fence down and withdraw all LEO protection so that the radicals in the street could destroy both buildings. This would make great law and order TV.

    Seriously, do you want to see these federal properties wrecked? And what the fuck do these buildings (and many other vandalized structures in downtown Portland) have to do with Black Lives Matter?

  249. 249.

    Yutsano

    July 29, 2020 at 8:40 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: I meant cardiac rehab. I had something else in my brain at the time for some weird reason.

  250. 250.

    WaterGirl

    July 29, 2020 at 9:23 pm

    @polyorchnid octopunch: I am way late to this thread, but I am so very happy to read that you are doing so well!!!

    Thank you for letting us know.  And don’t get cocky :-) and try to do much too soon or you might end up slowing your amazing recovery.  Take care.

  251. 251.

    The Pale Scot

    July 29, 2020 at 10:52 pm

    @Yutsano:

    Stop with the hangings. No one is getting hanged.

    How about a little flogging? Just a bit? A smidgen?

  252. 252.

    hotshoe

    July 30, 2020 at 12:32 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Sorry, you’re right, have a screw loose in my head today.

    Yeah, the goons are not military, and calling them “troops” casts aspersions on the actual troops who, so far, have managed to avoid shooting at US citizens on US civil soil.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Guest Posts: Priorities

Kakistocracy
I believe In My Fellow Americans
Defeat Them
Turning Bystanders Into Activists
UFOs and Officers
First Up, COVID
Idiots and Maniacs
Our National Illness
Libraries
You Have One Job

Do Something!

Call Your Senators & Representatives
Directory of US Senators
Directory of US Representatives
Letter to Elected Officials – Albatrossity
Letter to Elected Officials – Martin

I Got the Shot!

🎈Ways to Support Our Site

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal
Shop Amazon via this link to support Balloon Juice ⬇  

Recent Comments

  • 🐾BillinGlendaleCA on On The Road – 🐾BillinGlendaleCA – Lake Hollywood (Jan 27, 2021 @ 12:10pm)
  • Jim, Foolish Literalist on GME YOLO (Jan 27, 2021 @ 12:09pm)
  • J R in WV on Wednesday Morning Open Thread: Credit Where Due (Jan 27, 2021 @ 12:09pm)
  • Brachiator on Tax It Back (Jan 27, 2021 @ 12:08pm)
  • Served on GME YOLO (Jan 27, 2021 @ 12:07pm)

Team Claire, and Family

Help for David’s Niece Claire
Claire Updates
Claire update for the holidays 12/23

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year

Featuring

John Cole
Silverman on Security
COVID-19 Coronavirus
Medium Cool with BGinCHI
Information Is Power

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Submit Photos to On the Road
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Meetups: Proof of Life
2021 Pets of Balloon Juice Calendar

Culture: Books, Film, TV, Music, Games, Podcasts

Noir: Favorites in Film, Books, TV
Book Recommendations & Indy Recs
Mystery Recommendations
Medium Cool: What If (Books & Films)
Netflix Favorites
Amazon Prime Favorites
Netflix Suggestions in July
Fun Music Thread
Longmire & Netflix Suggestions
Medium Cool: Places!
Medium Cool: Games!
Medium Cool: Watch or Read Again

Twitter

John Cole’s Twitter

[custom-twitter-feeds]

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2021 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!