Since this worry keeps popping up in the comments — and I’m sure elsewhere on social media — sharing is caring:
In an interview with Fox News last week, Trump seemed to suggest he might not accept the outcome of the election if he were to lose.
Can he really thwart the will of the American electorate?
Let’s look at what’s actually possible — and what isn’t. https://t.co/55gAuuxzKQ
— GEN (@GENmag) July 27, 2020
What if it’s a close election?
This is where it starts to get dicey. Trump may be able to use the two-month period between Election Day and Inauguration Day to weaponize constitutional procedures for his political advantage.
— GEN (@GENmag) July 27, 2020
Nut graf: Trump can’t steal the election if Biden gets enough votes to keep the Electoral College honest.
Winning back the Senate wouldn’t hurt:
… What’s the biggest potential problem?
The big one is absentee ballots and the issues with counting them. Throughout 2020, elections have required extended periods to count absentee ballots and produce final results. Because of this, there is already a broad expectation on both sides that there may not be a clear winner of the presidential election on election night or even in the days after that…
This creates a potential scenario where, on election night, Trump is ahead in states that have the 270 or more electoral votes needed to claim victory, while Biden wins in the final tally days or weeks later, once all the votes are counted.
But isn’t the final count the one that matters?
It all depends. The three closest states in the 2016 election—Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan—all have Democratic governors but Republican legislatures. It’s conceivable in a close race that the Democratic governor certifies one result and one set of electors, but the Republican legislature certifies an entirely different result and set of electors. That’s where all these scenarios can start to go haywire.
However, they require one other precondition: a divided Congress in 2021.
Any conflict over the 2020 election results, including competing returns, would be decided by the next Congress, the one elected in November and seated on January 3, 2021. (Yes, the new Congress is sworn in almost three weeks before the president and three days before the presidential election is certified by Congress.) If Capitol Hill continues to be divided, with Democrats controlling the House and Republicans controlling the Senate, these scenarios come into play. It is unlikely to be an issue, however, if Democrats control both chambers…
Bonus paranoia points, regarding the looming pandemic-funding eviction crisis: ‘Persons experiencing homelessness’ can register and vote in all 50 states. The FindLaw website has more detail on what’s involved. Like all other voting-rights organizations, I’m sure they can use any help you may be in a position to provide.
germy
yellowdog
What is a new Congress can’t be sworn in because of the same voting problems/sabotage that affects the presidential vote counts?
germy
In Hong Kong, they’re talking about delaying their September elections because of the virus.
Yutsano
@yellowdog: It’s only going to matter in races that are too close to call. There are almost never enough of those to determine the majority in either chamber.
Baud
Let’s focus on making it not close.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Finding reasons to panic is apparently more fun for many.
Yutsano
@Baud: I watched a clip from CBS news last night and they had Florida, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin as toss-ups. I was wondering where the hell they got polling to support that. Then I remembered it doesn’t matter. They want their horserace. Even if they have to make one up as they go along.
Baud
@Yutsano: Obviously they went for Trump last time, but Pennsylvania as a toss-up this year is a head scratcher.
gene108
The solution is very, very, very simple – though it will hurt the feelings of the big monitor that uses Steve Kornacki to change its displays on election nights – do not announce results until all votes are counted.
It’s really that simple.
Take a week, or two weeks, or whatever but once all votes are counted, then announce a winner.
Steve Kornacki’s monitor will be sad it cannot keep showing election results all night on November 3, but it’s eliminate the scenario mentioned above about early results being contradicted once absentee / mail-in ballots are counted.
Baud
FWIW, unless Trump does make some kind of comeback to make it close, I’m fairly confident we’ll know the result on election night.
opiejeanne
@germy: What the hell? Who is Kurt Schlichter and why should we care?
Baud
@gene108: That won’t work. If everyone knows Biden has the electoral votes, no one is going to stay quiet for the month it takes for California to count all their ballots.*
*Not intended as a criticism of Cal’s process.
germy
gene108
@Yutsano:
I’ve regularly seen reports, with PA being a toss-up. I guess the Pennsyltucky part of central PA really, really hates Democrats more than they care about economic recovery and not dying from COVID19.
The only solution is to increase voting rates in Philly and the ‘burbs, and Pittsburgh. Though I do not know how effectively that can be done this year, when phone and text banking are the only real means of voter outreach, versus door knocking.
opiejeanne
@Baud: Well, that sounds ominous.
Omnes Omnibus
@opiejeanne: Wasn’t he the Gauleiter of Upper Franconia from 1944-45?
germy
@opiejeanne:
Every time I quote someone from the right, someone here will say “who is he and why should I care?”
He’s a RW asshole, but he’s influential on the right. Conservatives listen to him and take him seriously.
Baud
@opiejeanne: Not at all. I think Biden’s win will be solid enough that we’ll know he has the votes even though we’ll still have a lot of mail-in ballots that have not be counted yet.
Baud
@gene108: Have you seen polling to that effect? Anyone can put out a “report.”
Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog
@Yutsano:
“It may be bad for the country, but it’s great for CBS!”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: one point the O’Bros make a lot is that there are lots and lots of non-college whites in northern WI, western MI and central PA who didn’t turn out in 2016, and trump is going after them hard. I don’t want to throw numbers around when I don’t have the
ETA: the Bros were very Bernie-curious, then I think in the summer of ’18, they paid for a deep poll of Wisconsin– state polls are difficult and expensive for reasons I don’t entirely understand, and so fairly rare– and they suddenly got a bit of cautious religion.
Sloane Ranger
@yellowdog: As I understand it from across the pond, the House isn’t really in play. Everyone expects it to retain a Democratic majority at least as big as currently, probably larger, so any issues will be in the Senate.
I assume that each House is independent and the House will be able to swear in its members regardless of what’s going on with the Senate.
If the Constitution says that Trump ceases being President on whenever it is and the actual outcome of the Presidential election is still being challenged, wouldn’t the Speaker of the House (ie, Nancy Pelosi or another Democrat) become President?
Omnes Omnibus
That answers one of the two questions you were asked.
Baud
@germy: It’s a legitimate question. I don’t know who many of the less prominent players on the right are.
opiejeanne
@germy: They take Schlichter seriously? When he’s capable of such nonsense as the thing you quoted?
I read a few comments under that tweet and was startled to see people asking why Trump shouldn’t still be president even if he lost. I fell on the stairs yesterday, mistook two steps for three at the bottom, so maybe I’m just easily shocked today. (Didn’t really hurt anything but my right leg got super exercised in that moment)
SFAW
I’m wondering why the DNC (or Lincoln Project or whoever) is not starting a “Trump and Barr are going to rig/steal the election” drumbeat. Even if those traitors don’t rig/steal, getting the public thinking they might will likely inoculate against the Traitor’s bullshit, to some degree.
Probably better if LP does it, rather than the DNC or a Biden campaign arm.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why would those guys turn out now?
germy
@Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog:
Whatever happened to Moonves? Last I heard, he was starting his own network or production company or something. His faithful wife is still grinning, hosting reality TV, but I haven’t seen any press releases from Mr. Moonves.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Between 40-45 percent of potential voters are non-voters, and they’re not all non-college whites. “Toss-up” status should be based on some sort of polling IMHO.
gene108
@Baud:
The nation does not need to announce results all at once. If CA needs until January 2021 to count all the votes, that’s fine.
Each state, congressional district, etc. announces results, when votes are fully counted for the respective race.
There’s less credibility (if it matters anymore) in Trump stating “fraud”, if early results are in his favor and the result reverses, when mail-in ballots are counted, because we are going to have higher than normal number of mail-in ballots this year.
The results from in person voting will not be as representative as they have been in the past regarding projecting a winner, so we should avoid news stations from throwing up “projected winner” declarations on election night.
mrmoshpotato
And then we physically throw them out of the People’s House on their Soviet shitpile traitorous Trump trash mobster crime family asses!
rp
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why would they turn out in 2020 but not in 2016, when Trump was a “fresh” face and was running as an outsider? That doesn’t make any sense to me.
opiejeanne
@Baud: Thanks. I do pay attention to the big boys and girls on that side, but I don’t know all of them. I don’t think I’d heard of him before his nonsense request to have it explained to him in small words no bigger than three or four letters, maybe five max.
germy
@opiejeanne:
The only reason I know Schlichter is because I’ve had conservatives quote him at me.
Some of his quotes sound to me like excerpts from “Mein Kampf” but unfortunately he has an audience.
gene108
@Baud:
Fair enough. Poll numbers look like Biden will win PA comfortably.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/pennsylvania/
mrmoshpotato
@gene108:
Hahaha, well done.
Does Kornacki relax the other 365 days of the year?
Ken
@gene108: Maybe it’s just me, but the networks do seem to have gotten worse over the past few elections – at least when it comes to building the election-night sets.
The Holographic Election Nexus Central! The Insta-Poll Mapping Chamber! The Seasoned Analysts Conference Pit!
It starts to sound like Golan and Globus got back together to do cheap knockoffs of Harry Potter movies.
Omnes Omnibus
@gene108: The same site has Biden up 7.5 in Wisconsin.
mrmoshpotato
@Ken:
^^ Filled with hungry snakes?
kindness
I don’t think it’s going to matter that Uncle Joe will win in a landslide. Trump will certainly try to make the election results a fake and try to keep being President. Trump is surrounded by bootlicks whose very jobs depend on Trump continuing to be in power. The epistemic closure of such a Trump bubble will leave no other path.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@gene108:
The stupid fuckers treat it all as if it is a game, and polls and the big red and blue monitors are the scoreboards before the final buzzer.
oatler.
Jim Jordan currently yipping like a chiwawa at the Barr hearing.
germy
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
They’re always very impatient to scoop each other on getting the final results. Often before votes are counted.
schrodingers_cat
Don’t be afraid of these if-then-else scenarios. Vote and get others to vote. He is scared. Stand up to the bully don’t let him bully you.
ETA After this thread there will be one or more respite threads where no discussion of politics or COVID will be allowed
The blog oscillates between
OMG I am scared
La-la-la fingers in the ears, I can’ t hear you mode.
Leto
I know it’s petty but I want the House to pass a rule saying that all members are required to wear their suit top when in their respective committees. This isn’t casual Friday, Gym.
Ken
@oatler.: Chihuahua. My mnemonic is the WKRP in Cincinnati episode where Johnny asks Les Nessman how to pronounce “that Mexican dog”. Les comes back with “chai-who-ah-who-ah”.
(Johnny asks because Les has just finished a report on golfer “Chai Chai Rod-ri-gwez”.)
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
It seems like this is a big distraction from the more important voter suppression and making sure people can vote safely including vote by mail.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@germy:
It’s like a sickness. In the whole pull between “first or accurate”, they take “first” every time.
frosty
@gene108: Several elections ago my precinct captain told me if we can pull York County over 34% D then the Democrats win PA. I looked at the results since 1988, and he’s right. A percent or two more in Pennsyltucky along with Philly and Pittsburgh, and we’ve got it.
rikyrah
January 20, 2021, 12:01 p.m.
Muthaphucka is a tresspasser and needs to be treated as such.
However that’s settled.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Exactly!
Patricia Kayden
raven
They are going to let this go until the dems stop it then scream bloody murder.
germy
@Leto:
Jordan reminds me of every dumb gym teacher I had in high school.
Same belligerent, ignorant vibe.
frosty
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bullshit (to the O’bros). Trump swamped PA with new non-college white voters in 2016. I do not believe there are that many more of them.
Patricia Kayden
Leto
@germy: agreed.
Barr’s voice has the same effect on me as Trumpov’s.
oatler.
@Ken:
Winner of the coveted Silver Sow Award!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@gene108: Wisconsin did that for the primary. People knew not to expect results on election night.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: It is a distraction.
different-church-lady
He just… keeps… writing new ads for Biden.
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: the “Bro’s” spent the better part of three years trashing Hillary on their podcast. It’s part of the reason I stopped listening. The other part was their series, Into the Wilderness, where they basically spent multiple episodes chasing after the mythical non-college white voter who’s just waiting for the right message to swap back to the Dems.
frosty
That gave me a chuckle, thanks. My wife was freaked by a few news articles this morning that echoed the Twitter stuff in this post. I’ve been trying to talk her back down.
opiejeanne
@germy: The reason I asked why I should care is because of the tweet, which I view as ridiculous. I couldn’t imagine anyone taking him seriously, if that was typical of his ability to reason.
I was also giving the smart-ass answer to his tweet, so I apologize for sounding like I don’t take you seriously.
david
Twitter conveniently “bans” DTJr for 12 hours at the exact moment that Barr appears before Congress.
Purely coincidental timing, I’m sure. No distraction intended.
germy
@opiejeanne:
No problem.
As I said, the only reason I know him is because RWNJs have quoted him at me, trying to win arguments.
I made the unfortunate effort to reach out to the other side, and I got him thrown at me.
His only value is as a representative of what right wing “intellectuals” are saying.
gene108
@mrmoshpotato:
I am beginning to think Kornacki is a symbiote use by the monitor to do tasks the monitor cannot do for itself, and the monitor is actually the sentient being in the relationship.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Technically true, since he is incapable of doing what needed to be done to improve his performance.
namekarB
My California County (and surrounding counties) have vote-by-mail as an option but Gov. Newsom has mandated everyone receive a vote-by-mail ballot in this election.
In years prior about 50% voted by mail and 80% of vote-by-mail ballots are received by the elections office prior to election day. Vote-by-mail ballots received are certified as they come in and all vote-by-mail ballots are counted on election day and posted within an hour of polls being closed. So the only outstanding ballots left to be counted are those vote-by-mail ballots that dribble in after the election. Unless it is an extremely close election, the dribbles of ballots coming in after the election have a minimal impact on the outcome of the election.
Thus I marvel at all the paranoia about election results upon the close of the polls and the actual certification of the final results several weeks later. As stated by others, unless the election is very close, the initial election results won’t change the final results (exceptions have on occasion happened).
mrmoshpotato
@gene108: Haha
Leto
Barr now explaining why he’s covering for Trumpov regarding Flynn/Stone. Aaaand I’m done.
indycat32
@different-church-lady: For once, he’s telling the truth. He’s incapable of doing anything more.
Kropacetic
My buddy has the AG testifying to Congress on the TV. The placard says
Honorable!?
Mike J
Every election in Washington leads to accusations of skulduggery as it takes about a week to get the full vote in, and inevitably somebody who was ahead on election night falls behind as more votes are counted.
Our all VBM system is still better than in person voting, but it only works because there is a strong auditing system built in that neutralizes accusations of cheating.
Betty Cracker
@kindness: Probably true, and that same bubble prevents Trump from making course corrections to save his own ass. The sycophant feedback loop tells him he’s the greatest president ever and that people Americans actually trust like Dr. Fauci are trying to undermine him. So he doubles down on the idiocy and attacks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker:
Boat parades! Have they polled the boaters?
Barbara
@Leto: Spoken like a man who was required to wear a uniform when on duty!
Barbara
@different-church-lady: “Vote for me — this is as good as I can possibly get. It’s all downhill from here!”
Bluegirlfromwyo
@germy: Since when does moral obligation have anything to do with it? Effective January 21, Joe Biden can enforce the legal obligation. Does Kurt really think the Secret Service loves Trump that much?
Amir Khalid
@germy:
The succinct answer to Kurt Schlichter: them’s the rules. Obama had to vacate the White House because his term was up. If Trump loses, he too must vacate the White House when his term is up.
I don’t know why anyone would take Schlichter’s petulant quibble seriously.
JR
@Baud: PA looks like we’re running 1% behind Biden’s national, although it’s hard to say based on the scarcity of state-level polling.
In any event, if Biden holds an ~8 point lead against Trump, which he has done since mid-June, it will be moot. Let’s get those mail in votes locked in where we can!
Bluegirlfromwyo
@kindness: Now that Confederate participation trophies have come down, I think we have a 50-50 chance that Trump becomes the new Lost Cause. They’ll call it the War of Elite Aggression.
germy
@Bluegirlfromwyo:
Bubble dwellers believe all kinds of stuff.
cain
@kindness:
Don’t forget the militias and law enforcement who are filled with right wingers.
It’s going to be a shit show like no other.
WereBear
Because for them, it is. It’s not their rights being trampled on, their kids at risk, their parents sent home to die.
JCJ
@rp: They might not have turned out in 2016 because they did not believe Trump to be as racist as he truly is, but now that they realize he is a true fascist they will turn out
Amir Khalid
@different-church-lady:
It’s an honest self-assessment. I’d give him a cookie for that. A stale cookie.
cain
@schrodingers_cat:
Pretty much the normal operating mode. You should have seen this place back in 2007..
Baud
@JR:
2016 Pennsylvania results.
Percentage
Trump 48.18%
Clinton 47.46%
Hard to believe Biden can’t win the state back.
schrodingers_cat
@cain: Been commenting since 2009-10. Only an occasional lurker in 2007.
JR
@Baud: I think he will, but I want 2008 (+10).
Kay
@kindness:
Trump owns the GOP though, and he much prefers reality tv to real life. I think he just goes full time grifter, along with all his adult children. It will be WILDLY profitable and more fun. He’ll be a kingmaker too- every GOP politician will still have to kiss his ass. All the perks, none of the downside.
Kelly
Barr’s long standing weight loss plan is to lie his ass off.
patroclus
So far, Barr is besting the Judiciary Committee’s Dems handily, in my view. I wish they were better prepared because this is not what I expected.
The Lodger
@oatler.: Chiwawa? Is it legal to bring one of them into a convenience store in Pennsylvania?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Leto:
I still listen, but I had to speed through yesterday’s show cause they brought on Medhi Hassan as a guest host. He may the least insane and obnoxious person on the Intercept masthead, but that’s a low bar.
I FF’d to the interview with Ari Berman about vote-by-mail, and that’s one of the reasons I’m glad they’re out there, single boosting people like Berman and Heather McGee
Eunicecycle
@oatler.: And the Copper Cob!
oatler.
Gohmert’s going off script. Not that there ever was one. “Bolsheviks”?
Calouste
People are overthinking how the shitgibbon will try to steal the election. The shitgibbon will bribe, extort, or threaten enough electors to vote for him contrary to the result in their state. If needed, the Roberts court will declare the state laws that force the electors to vote for the winner of the popular vote in their state unconstitutional. Far easier than messing with the actual vote.
Baud
@Calouste:
So, um, the Supreme Court unanimously upheld those state laws just a few weeks ago.
randy khan
@yellowdog:
So if a new Congress can’t be sworn in, you can’t count the electoral votes (because that requires a joint session of Congress) and under current law the President Pro Tempore of the Senate takes the oath of office.
Fun twist: If the Senate election results aren’t certified by January 3, you’re left with the Senators who weren’t up for election, and the Dems have a clear majority of that group. Traditionally, the President Pro Tempore is the senior Senator in the majority party, and if tradition were followed, that would be Pat Leahy, but they can choose anyone in the caucus, and with the knowledge that the person would become President, they might choose based on who would be best suited to take over or might be a contested election within the party caucus. (Now, in practice, a good number of the Senate elections almost certainly would be certified, so it’s possible that either the Dems or the Republicans would have the majority.)
cain
I would call that peak Balloon-juice. It was after all the ultimate horse race elections. I mean the entire world was riveted if I recalled, but our little piece of the internet had a lot of push and pull, panicking, unity pony farting rainbows, good times :)
UncleEbeneezer
Since I know we have some LA County residents here (Pasadena/Glendale etc.):
Help Reimagine LA County Today!!:
Good morning everyone, The LA County Board of Supervisors will be voting on the Reimagine LA County initiative:
“If passed by voters in November, the Reimagine L.A. County initiative would shift 10 percent of unrestricted county general funds away from the law enforcement system and toward various programs serving low-income communities, such as:
• youth development programs
• job training and jobs to low-income residents focusing on jobs that support the implementation of the “Alternatives to Incarceration” workgroup recommendations, especially construction jobs for the expansion of affordable and supportive housing, and a decentralized system of care
Please take a couple minutes out of your morning to support this by making public comment. YouthJusticeCoalition has provided an easy guide for how to do so (attached), it’s very simple. Just fill in your info, copy/paste their script and add a little of your own voice. I wrote: “I reimagine an LA County where we prioritize equality, justice, affordable housing, access to education, mental health, more social workers and less potentially deadly interactions with armed police.”
Thank you–
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tvHdfTdtjDiUgPFbScVZdV6sZeDTkK1tKsMVEakJCwg/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR3ZMnPG-1cHvyzIsBWTq5ZyCr3kPK2wbTHfXdnpKe1R7LBHLxmmrUrcx94
bluehill
@frosty:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is the argument that Elissa Slotkin, MI rep, makes. She says the vote will be closer than currently reflected in the polls. Could be hindsight bias or better insight into her district.
Leto
@Barbara: It’s either all on, or all off; THERE’S NO IN BETWEEN! :P
Baud
@bluehill:
Or just lying because she knows how distracted a lot of our voters get when they think the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
randy khan
@germy:
I haven’t commented on this on LGM yet, but this is not right. The closer the vote totals are, the more likely he is to win, but what happened in 2016 and, for that matter, 2000, was that very small numbers of ballots in a small number of states went the wrong way. In 2016, it was 60,000 votes, which is a drop in the bucket, and as Nate Silver said, that was like hitting an inside straight.
A Ghost to Most
@schrodingers_cat:
Quoted for repetition. I hope they find their spines, and lose their certainty.
CCL
Haven’t read the comments – so don’t know if others have posted about this, but when I see Gym Jordan, all I can think of is a cornered little monkey who tries to show dominance by screaming with flying spittle, flinging poo, and jumping up and down.
Kay
@patroclus:
I can’t watch it. The corruption of the DOJ makes me despair. I’m so incredibly disappointed that they weren’t more resilient. They just weren’t up to the challenge.
They’re all thinking they can “return to normalcy” if Trump is not reelected but “normal” is gone. They can’t go back there. Barr blew it up behind him.
randy khan
@gene108:
I think some of this just 2016 hangover, as the polls are pretty consistent in showing Biden with a 5-10 point lead. Places like the Cook Political Report combine current polling with previous results to come up with their ratings, which results in lag when the old result and the polling are inconsistent.
Baud
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mehdi was on as a replacement for Chris Hayes Friday night (I think it was Friday), and I was like did MSNBC surrender this time slot to Bernie/the Intercept?
Fun fact I just learned: Georgia dipshit Doug Collins also serves as an AF Reserve chaplain. Uuuggghhhh…..
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay:
I bought into all the former-federal-prosecutors on MSNBC who spoke so reverently and romantically of the culture of the Department of Justice a year (or more?) ago. A lot of them (Rosenberg, Vance) seem kind of heart-broken now. They should use their platforms, such as they are, to call for the new Dem Senate to hold public hearings on what’s happened there.
frosty
@Kay: Can he be a kingmaker from inside Supermax? Blazing a new post-Presidential trail, I guess.
randy khan
@different-church-lady:
Inadvertently speaking the truth, although not in the way he thinks.
Baud
@Leto:
What did he talk about?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Leto:
I wouldn’t be surprised if Hayes has been lobbying for a more Intercepty guest list for some time.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t watch much anymore, but I have a bad feeling he’s going to be just awful next year when the Dems control everything.
ETA: But at least we have Joy Reid now.
Calouste
@Baud: Then apparently they’ve worked out that that is not needed.
randy khan
@germy:
Such a stupid question. But the answer is that the moral obligation is to uphold the rule of law. Although, as others have pointed out, the specific obligation that matters is the legal obligation.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@oatler.:
Bolsheviks? Seriously?
Swear to the goddess, I’d love to create a Bolshevik Party just to agitate that stupid fuck into a coronary.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They can’t just be heartbroken. They have to stand up. They spent so much time protecting “the institution” and denying it was being corrupted from within that they lost everything that gives the institution value. They didn’t want to face it. Reputations are earned and they have to be re-earned over and over. They can’t just ride on it. I know they want to “believe”. They can’t.
Leto
@Baud: I’ll be honest and just say I can’t remember. I watched it for like 2 mins and moved along. He’s a consistent “the Dems are the problem” person so there’s a built in noise filter with him already.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought that about the rest of the government too. That our institutions were stronger, that we had career people who were executing the law faithfully… I guess we were all wrong. I also don’t know where we go from here because even if we write new laws strengthening everything, Trumpov/McConnell have packed the courts with all their appointees who will simply tear it all down. Idk.
germy
@randy khan:
From the Just Askin’ school of conservative debate.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Leto: yeah, I’ve been a rather cynical elitist for a long time, and to find out I’ve been overestimating my fellow Americans all this time has been consistently depressing
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“The Institution” is only as good as the people in it. If you take a pitcher of lemonade and replace half of it with motor oil it’s no longer lemonade. You can insist it is, because, why, that pitcher has always had delicious lemonade in it! But it’s not.
Why is it corrupt now when it wasn’t before? Because the corrupt people trounced the not-corrupt people. The non-corrupt people decided to choke down some motor oil pretending it’s lemonade.
Baud
@Kay:
It’s Trump
SteaksLemonade!Calouste
@Calouste: I haven’t looked at all the faithless elector laws, but in Washington state a faithless elector gets a $1000 fine, so that is pretty much toothless. Wikipedia states that “the laws in half of these jurisdictions have no enforcement mechanism”.
evodevo
@Kay: Two thumbs up. they ALL thought they could “reform/protect from within”. Rational competent people have NO idea how delicate the balance really is, and how actually batshit crazy and determined the other side is. Middle-of-the-road is dead.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Twice now, TWICE, the DOJ has brought LIES provided by members of the Trump Administration to a federal judge. WHY are they signing and filing this bullshit? If nothing else they should be concerned for their own personal credibility. There’s no duty to sign off on lies! The duty runs the other way.
In BOTH cases the lies were concocted by Homeland Security. I’m detecting a pattern! Might want to check the facts in those pleadings! Or, they could continue to play along and lose all the accrued credibility of that institution. That’s the consequence.
Kay
@evodevo:
I always knew it was fragile. It amazes me that they didn’t know it too. It’s an agreement, our system. It only works by consent. If the other party is Donald Trump there is no agreement. He doesn’t even know what the civil compact was, let alone abide by it.
zhena gogolia
OT, I hope we get a whole blog post on this
cmorenc
@Kay:
OTOH, if the election proves to be a substantial broad debacle for the GOP, especially to the extent this extends beyond just the Presidential race, a substantial portion of GOP politicians will try to claim they hardly ever knew this interloper Trump guy. True, the example of the 1964 GOP debacle when Goldwater was the GOP nominee might tempt folks to conclude that similarly, the GOP will quickly rise Phoenix-like from the ashes in time for the 2024 election – but Goldwater was the embodiment of a consistent glibertarian conservative ideological vision for the greater good, whereas Trump represents no consistent vision beyond IGMFY and smash-and-grab everything we don’t already have, and spitefully hate anyone who seems stands in their way.
Does the GOP have anyone ready to step up with a Reagan-like genial face sugar-coating the monstrously selfish instincts inside? Ted Cruz would like to be that guy, but he’s hated by too many fellow Republicans and lacks Trump’s huckster salesmanship skills. Tom Cotton would like to be that guy, but he’s rather charisma-challenged himself and has a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease.
Leto
@zhena gogolia: Someone has gone nose blind. I’m waiting for the post when he has to interact with society again with that weapons grade B.O. present.
Edmund Dantes
Good to know we have Hoyer out here pre-caving on the $600 unemployment benefit.
Kay
@cmorenc:
I think the GOP congress want him to lose. It’s no fun being owned by the Trumps. It sucks. They’ll be happier than we will if he loses.
But they think that means they’re free of him, and it doesn’t.
Leto
@cmorenc:
I mean, that’s been the Republican motto for my entire life, so don’t see why it won’t stand going forward. It’s worked wonders for them…
Mike in DC
@Edmund Dantes: He’s my congressman and he just won his primary. I am going to volunteer for his challenger next time and if need be, hell, I’ll run against him a few years down the road. He needs to retire already.
Kay
@cmorenc:
They have a new problem too. A not-small part of their base have adopted a fucking insane religion that has as its main tenet that all of the religions enemies should be executed.
8 of their House candidates. Believers. “Q” makes “birthers” look rational.
Leto
@Kay: It puts them back in the minority status where they can be the shit flinging howler monkeys they are. All the TV time, none of the legislative responsibilities. They can be as obstructionist as they want, grift off their dumb constituents, and all the talking heads will ask why the Dems are the problem. Literally no downside for them.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
I always assume either malice, sloth or mediocrity to be the driving forces in any long-standing organ connected with the practice and/or enforcement of law.
I’m never disappointed. They always meet my expectations at an institutional level.
I always chuckle at those who proclaim sadness or disappointment, as if better conduct was expected.
Kay
@Leto:
Trump would LOVE one of those giant-head screaming Fox shows. In heaven. He could hire every one of his otherwise unemployable kids, too, and have a whole product line. That’s just the show. He could also do live events. We could be looking at the first billionaire grifter.
zhena gogolia
@Leto:
It will be epic.
Kay
This is the standard now- if Barr thinks it’s “fair”. I hope those Portland protesters have good lawyers. They are not going to get impartial treatment by this justice department. Between Barr and Homeland Security convicting and sentencing them as a group they will not get the benefits of generally recognized due process in the United States.
This is a different, worse country that Barr runs. A new one.
Ruckus
@opiejeanne:
I’m good at 4 letter word explanations.
I imagine by now we all are.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I still think a trump TV media operation was the real goal in 2016. trump didn’t want to partner with the Murdochs, he wanted to replace them, and finally with Russian financing, become the global macher he always pretended to be. I think he’s still keeping that option open for his post presidency
Maybe that’s the real reason he hates Comey. He killed the dream.
Just One More Canuck
@Kelly: that’s a couple of hundred pounds right there
Jess
538 has Biden very slightly over Trump in TEXAS! Wouldn’t that be fun if he expands his lead!
taumaturgo
Ruckus
@Ken:
Isn’t that how you pronounce that guy’s name?
Brachiator
@cmorenc:
The GOP base loves Trump. They will always love Trump. Trump is now the ideal of any lazy plutocrat who believes that he can translate his or her wealth and name into political power.
Even as Trump’s feckless approach to the pandemic weakens his support, the GOP sticks to him even closer, demanding overt gestures of loyalty from everyone.
The GOP will never back away from Trump. He has been too good for them. And he won’t let them forget it.
Kay
Repulsive, the level of corruption. Dirty, dirty, dirty. One of the Never Trumper’s calls Barr “the interior minister” and it’s perfect. He’s just so slippery.
Kent
@Jess: Having lived in TX for over a decade I’ll believe it when I see it. Been disappointed far too many times down there.
Ruckus
@different-church-lady:
He’s not real bright, but he makes up for it by constantly getting dumber.
Matt McIrvin
@germy: There was some commenter on LGM a while back who was speculating that Trump was coddling the Secret Service so that he could somehow use them to support his coup if he loses.
But, aside from the fact that there are precisely zero indications that he’s doing that or that they like him, it doesn’t matter! Even if the Secret Service became Trump’s personal cult and kept him physically in the White House, it wouldn’t make him President after a loss. And that’s the most they could really do. He’d need much more support for a coup, including the support of the military.
WhatsMyNym
@Calouste:
WA updated their law already…
Ruckus
@gene108:
Aw, the real explanation.
Jess
@Kent: Yeah, I’m not holding my breath either. But still. When has the Dem candidate ever been ahead in recent decades?
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
As it happens, the High Court in Malaysia sentenced a 67-year-old man today to 12 years jail. So I’m not sympathetic to Barr’s argument.
PST
@opiejeanne:
Pretty good pitcher, as I recall, even if he is now insane.
Haydnseek
Kent
He’d also need the support of the Federal bureaucracy. They would have to do drastic steps like what happened in Turkey with the arrest and jailing of hundreds of thousands of bureaucrats and administrators with “suspect loyalty”
What happens on January 21 when Bill Barr finds that his DOJ computer accounts are locked out, his DOJ cell phone is bricked so no one can reach him, and his key-cards don’t work? Multiply that across the entire government. An actual coup attempt would be all the excuse needed to lock up every damn Trumper for actual treason and throw away the fucking key.
I’m not particularly worried about any sort of actual coup after an election loss. What I’m deathly worried about is actual election fuckery at the state level. Florida 2000 was just a practice round.
Matt McIrvin
@namekarB:
All this assumes that the US Postal Service is functioning normally, but it’s not, and the administration could easily make the situation far worse in the run-up to the general election. Cut funding and staff to the bone, order the remaining workers to avoid overtime, de-prioritize ballot mailings, so that the ballots take several weeks or months to come in. They might be able to delay some of them until after the Electoral College meets.
Kay
Nadler is terrible at this and if it’s important – if the hearing is important- that should be recognized and acted upon- he does a bad job. Protecting his ego should not take precedence over letting someone with some skill do the job. He is simply not up to it. Put someone else in there or admit it’s not that important it be done well.
Bruce K
@PST: He was an irredeemable asshole sixteen years ago and he’s an irredeemable asshole today.
Geeno
@Ken: WKRP – The station with more music and Les Nessman
Dorothy A. Winsor
I can’t watch the Barr testimony. I want him gone. I don’t need to hear or see him every again in order to know that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: IIRC the last time Barr backed out of a hearing, a scandalously long time ago, it was because Nadler wanted to have a staff attorney handle the questioning, so maybe he does recognize some limitations, but these people spend most of their adult lives in the quests for these chairs and gavels
Word on twitter is Hank Johnson took a couple of two-by-fours to Barr. I’ll be interested to see how Demmings does. I’m counting on somebody like Rupar to post video, cause I just can’t with the back-and-forth side shows.
Matt McIrvin
The final chance to fuck with the election will be the Congressional certification of the Electoral College vote in early January. I was wondering if, assuming the Republicans retain the Senate, they could obstruct that somehow, but they really can’t–rejecting electoral votes takes a majority of both houses, and if it doesn’t get that the electoral votes are assumed to stand.
The most extreme move would be to send armed paramilitaries into the Capitol to force the vote, the Hitler option. I suspect Trump would have a hard time maintaining sufficient perceived legitimacy to hold the country after that unless he’s built a significant case to begin with.
Kropacetic
That’s Curt Schilling.
Immanentize
@PST: NOPE. You are thinking of Curt Schilling of the bloody sock fame. Kurt Schlicter is just a second tier RW pundit. Don’t let your wing nuts get confused….
ETA. well done Kropacetic. Red Sox Nation represent!
Yutsano
@Kay:
Kay, you know better. He’s not a billionaire. He’s so far underwater he’s lucky he has two nickels to rub together. He has to grift because he can’t declare bankruptcy and walk away from these creditors. Because they won’t just go for his assets if you know what I mean and I think you do.
Kropacetic
Of course our society is so fucked up I believe both can be true.
germy
Remember that dude early in the protests (it feels like a million years ago) who smashed windows with a hammer and then walked away when questioned by real BLM protesters?
Yutsano
@Immanentize: The fake bloody sock you mean. Man has been a mooch his entire life I swear.
CaseyL
@Matt McIrvin: His most devoted followers are trotting out the theory that the campaign seeking to unseat him is a “coup.” Not even the election itself: just the Presidential Campaign! Like, he shouldn’t even have to run, he should have the WH handed over to him in perpetuity.
Be interesting to see if that notion gets more traction as the election gets closer.
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: Bullshit.
Immanentize
@Yutsano: Ask Rhode Island and the 75 mil they gifted him for his fail company. Mooch is right, but no mini with that guy.
Kropacetic
@CaseyL: A Trumpist friend of mine is trying to bribe me to vote for Trump. He thinks MA is close enough that it can be swung. Trump is gonna win in a landslide or so he thinks.
ETA: And my Trumpist sister is going on about how the state is trying to suppress her vote. The nearest I got to an explanation is that there are more D voters here and that constitutes suppression.
Leto
@Immanentize: that fail video game company of his. Might as well have taken that money out to the parking lot and just set it on fire.
Wakeshift
@Kropacetic:
Trumpist… friend…
I don’t understand this.
Kropacetic
@Wakeshift: We’ve been friends a long time. I can’t help thast he went crazy.
Wakeshift
@Leto:
As a Rhode Islander, and knowing that we’d never see the money again, I advocated for issuing a copy of the game to every resident here. Wanted to see something in return.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Dammit. I was rooting for this guy…
Kropacetic
Not a good time to be a teetotaller.
trollhattan
Regardless of what happens in January, Trump’s army of assholes aren’t going away.
The Sac County Sheriff is a diehard Trumper so this Casarez guy must be pretty bad.
trollhattan
@Kropacetic:
1. Accept bribe (presuming it’s big and juicy).
2. Vote Biden. Tell briber what you did.
3. In response to the protests and demands for a refund, point out that you did exactly what Donny does in every business transaction.
4. Treasure the rage.
.
Tony Jay
@opiejeanne:
If my memory serves me correctly he was the last Chancellor of Weimar Germany before Adolf Hitler who made the mistake of trying to treat the Nazis like any other legitimate political party and ended up paying for his lack of imagination on the Night of the Long Knives.
Didn’t know he’d survived the purge to become a wingnut word-sprayer, but given his politics its hardly surprising.
germy
@Kropacetic: His mistake was drinking it.
He was supposed to inject it.
Kropacetic
Don’t forget. Random individuals. especially on the left, are held to a higher standard of behavior than Republican politicians. You don’t want the media trying to hold Biden accountable for my actions, do you?
mrmoshpotato
@CaseyL:
I believe those people are called fascists.
Kay
@Yutsano:
I agree he’s not a billionaire! But the grift would be so good he could make a billion.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@germy: Or boof it.
Kay
Wouldn’t that be good? It would be. “Restore Honor” to the AG. Plus, I just like him.
eric
@Kay: respectfully, i disagree. the reason they will fight so hard is that Trump will no longer have the DOJ at his disposal to hold off state prosecutors. I think Trump knows that this election is existential for him, and likely his spawn. No win, no freedom (from lawsuits, from indictments, from the Man). The grift will be for his defense fund.
SFAW
@Kay:
No, I don’t. But drawing-and-quartering has been outlawed, so I’ll take what I can get.
Kay
Guffaw. Purely political. They’re the Donald J. Trump police force. He can take them with him when he goes too- I don’t want to pay them anymore. Put them on the Trump Family payroll, where they belong.
James E Powell
@schrodingers_cat:
While it’s true that this community has a diversity of views and the responses to events are often more emotional than rational, based on my wanderings around the left side of the internet (dramatically increased over the usual because of COVID isolation), this is one of the sanest places to talk about politics.
jl
Article on election wasn’t as reassuring as I’d hoped. I liked the article I saw that went through a very complicated scenario that ended with a president Pat Leahy. But I can’t find it now, and that is probably for the best.
Thanks to Belarus tyrant for the pro-tip on vodka cure. If it turns out that ghastly thing I caught in March was not covid-19, I’ll keep it mind. I don’t know how I can find out now what I caught, except by coming down with covid-19 in the future, which is not an optimal serology testing procedure. I think too late for serology test to be reliable for me, and I read most of those tests are not very reliable anyway.
mrmoshpotato
So many questions.
joel hanes
“Catch-22,” the old woman repeated, rocking her head up and down. “Catch-22. Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can’t stop them from doing.”
“What the hell are you talking about?” Yossarian shouted at her in bewildered, furious protest. “How did you know it was Catch-22? Who the hell told you it was Catch-22?”
“The soldiers with the hard white hats and clubs. The girls were crying. ‘Did we do anything wrong?’ they said. The men said no and pushed them away out the door with the ends of their clubs. ‘Then why are you chasing us out?’ the girls said. ‘Catch-22,’ the men said. ‘What right do you have?’ the girls said. ‘Catch-22,’ the men said. All they kept saying was ‘Catch-22, Catch-22.’ What does it mean, Catch-22? What is Catch-22?”
“Didn’t they show it to you?” Yossarian demanded, stamping about in anger and distress. “Didn’t you even make them read it?”
“They don’t have to show us Catch-22,” the old woman answered. “The law says they don’t have to.”
“What law says they don’t have to?”
“Catch-22.”
Kay
The “protester threat” will go the way of the “caravan threat” as election day comes and then goes.
This is the second time these public employees have worked for GOP reelections. Same play as 2018. Last time it failed. Let’s make sure it fails this time, too.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Jesus Fucking Christ – the US Attorney for the Western District of Kentucky just went full-on “black-on-black crime negates Black Lives Matter”.
https://www.wdrb.com/news/feds-charge-14-suspects-in-alleged-louisville-gang-related-drug-conspiracy-3-on-the-loose/article_34b33b5c-d0f5-11ea-a824-c3f2ee11860c.html
catclub
@Tony Jay: so what was the name of the wackaloon pitcher?
that was who I thought KS was.
Kay
This corrupt hack runs our justice system. The justice system will reflect that poor quality. It can’t NOT reflect it. LOW quality.
jl
@mrmoshpotato: At least that guy makes more sense than the Trumpsters in my family. He can at least formulate a coherent plan.
I’d make sure he paid in cash that got checked for being counterfeit at the local bank beforehand.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Excellent outcome if Jones doesn’t get reelected.
Frances Perkins
@Tony Jay
Wasn’t that Kurt Schleicher?
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: A couple nights ago, I cured my long streak of not puking by using vodka!
Overserved myself a bit.
Librarian
Kurt Schlichter, Kurt Schleicher, Kurt Schilling- what’s the difference?
Barbara
@Kay: WTF? If he couldn’t do the time he shouldn’t have done the crime. I mean, there are so many examples of outrageously, disproportionately, unfair outcomes in federal sentencing that 7-9 years when you are 67 barely ranks a shrug of the shoulders.
jl
@James E Powell: First line of defense against horrid election messes is a big turnout and big majority against Trump and GOP. Good news is that so far, Trump seems to be working that plan to the max.
Our horrible no good system for electing the president needs to be fixed, though. That was my main take away from the linked story.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Matt McIrvin: You know, states with Vote-By-Mail don’t solely rely on the USPS, right?
Kent
Until I read the quote I thought you were talking about his army of DHS storm troopers and not his civilian MAGA filth.
As for the former. A Biden administration should put their asses to work tearing down his pathetic wall. And if they object, fire them for insubordination.
Anotherlurker
@catclub: Kurt Schilling
Doh! I see Librarian beat me to it.
Ken
I’m hoping Biden keeps Barr as AG. I’m also hoping that every time Biden wants to do anything, they drag Barr out of the oubliette, hose him down,
beatcoach him for a couple hours until he gets his lines right, and drag him before Congress to say “anything the president wants to do is OK, please stop hurting me, anything the president wants to do is OK….”mrmoshpotato
@Kay: Why didn’t Obummer test for a virus that didn’t exist when he was President?!
Check! Mate! LIBTARD! SAD!
James E Powell
@jl:
This should be the only thing we are talking about and I mean mostly at the ward & precinct levels.
germy
@Kent:
I saw some video yesterday of the wind doing that.
mrmoshpotato
Meidas Touch – Trump Kills Texas
planetjanet
@Kropacetic:
Trump is at 28% in Massachusetts right now. That is some level of delusion.
PPCLI
@germy: As most of us guessed, a white supremacist. There was also a tidbit in the Minn. Star-Ledger article on this that I hadn’t heard before: Umbrella Man spray-painted “Free shit for everyone zone”* before breaking the windows.
If the newpapers would have reported the spray-painted message too, it would have been even more evident that this was some right-wing nut.
*[the Star-Ledger replaces “shit” with “[expletive]”, but clearly that is the only banned expletive that would make sense.]
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Ken:
While I appreciate your willingness to think outside the box in order to give me pleasing mental images, it appears that your plan is near impossible – Barr would suddenly value an excess of checks and balances along with robust oversight, nay, even an errantly overabundant oversight.
Kay
The AG told a blatant lie and a local reporter called him on it. I ask you- if you’re one of the people Trump’s federal police force have picked up, can you trust that you’ll be treated according to the rules?
Of course not. They’re liars.
It matters when you hire people like this. It lowers the quality across the board.
Ken
Another approach would be to say “We’re running the government like a business. So everyone get ready for your mandatory courses.” Five hundred hours per year of conduct guidelines, diversity awareness, law and regulations training, and ethics courses should reduce excess headcount.
Or, given some of the bodies I’ve seen on the videos, a six-week boot camp with lots of running should have the same effect.
janesays
@gene108: OK, well that’s obviously not going to happen, so Plan B is?
Ken
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: That’s what the “coaching” is for. By which I mean “enhanced coaching”.
Matt McIrvin
@?BillinGlendaleCA: True, they don’t, but once the ballots are in the system, they’re in the system.
opiejeanne
@Kropacetic: What was the bribe you were offered?
mrmoshpotato
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Exactly! The same way Putin’s Bitch McConnell would’ve had to study the Constitution for 4 years before voting on any judicial nominees or cabinet positions under a President Hillary Clinton.
Ya know, just to be sure he wasn’t violating the Constitution.
Kropacetic
@opiejeanne: 20 bucks and sushi. I wouldn’t do it for any price but that’s kind of cheap.
Bluegirlfromwyo
@Kay: What happened to I alone can fix it? These low quality hires can’t even hold each other accountable, certainly can’t expect decency for anyone they don’t like (as you’ve pointed out from day 1).
Kropacetic
Problem is he isn’t allowed to do anything alone. He has to run a whole organization. A shame he doesn’t have the opportunity to show off his super powers.
SFAW
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
That’s what “attitude adjustment” sessions are for — to help him see the error in his thinking.
oatler.
@joel hanes:
“Get off the airfield, Yossarian, this is an M &M Enterprises operation!”
mrmoshpotato
@Ken: Enhanced Coaching with John Yoo, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft
rp
@Kropacetic: Just take it and vote for Biden.
Barbara
@PPCLI: I assume that the police released that information because the rumor mill was implicating one of their own. How cynical I have become, to think that otherwise they would have been happy to let people think umbrella guy was in sympathy with BLM.
Harm isn’t really harm unless it’s happening to one of your own.
Elizabelle
EVENT ALERT FOR RICHMOND VA TONIGHT:
Since we have several central Virginian Juicers: George Floyd’s family members will be at the RE Lee Monument tonight to project a hologram of George upon it. Richmond, of all cities, is premiering this hologram show, which will then tour other cities (NC, Georgia and on) along the 1961 Freedom Riders’ route.
Yes, chance of T storms, but it’s Virginia in summer.
I saw them setting up last night at the Jeff. Davis monument; saw the camera crew interviewing folks and equipment being put together. Curious what it was, and now we know. 60% chance of isolated T storms throughout, but you know how changeable RVA weather can be.
planetjanet
@Elizabelle: Excellent!
mrmoshpotato
@Kropacetic: LOL a double sawbuck and sushi? Wow.
I wouldn’t vote for Dump for $20,000, but that errr…”bribe”…
ETA – would $21 have constituted felony electoral fraud, but 20 bucks is just a misdemeanor? LOL
janesays
To the best of my knowledge, the reason why people trust network projections on state winners in presidential elections is because the networks have pretty close to 100% accuracy in correctly projecting the state winners in presidential elections.
As far as I can tell, the only instance in the last 40 years where more than one network called a state for a particular candidate that wound up ultimately not being the winner of that state (at least according to a conservative majority SCOTUS, anyway) was Florida in 2000. Several networks did at some point in the evening project Gore as the winner there before they retracted the projection and left it grayed out for the next several weeks.
I believe every other projection for every other state in that election and in every other election since 1980 has been right. I can’t recall any other instance of multiple networks calling a state for one candidate and then having to go back and change the call to that candidate’s opponent later in the evening. That probably goes back much further than 1980, but that’s all before my time.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropacetic: Conspiracy to commit election fraud.
germy
There go two miscreants
@Kropacetic: “…that’s kind of cheap.”
Downright insulting actually!
Kropacetic
@There go two miscreants: Maybe he’s low-balling me because I don’t actually like Biden.
trollhattan
@Kent:
Yeah, I’m assuming Biden can and will rein in Trump’s official Schutzstaffel but the armed nazi and klan factions will go bonkers, having lost Their Precious. NRA’s funding issues may magically disappear as well.
Mallard Filmore
@CaseyL:
baby snatching
treason
150,000 dead
What’s not to love?
opiejeanne
@Kropacetic: Oh gawd, and it’s probably gas station sushi at that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the tweeters I follow have been pretty blasé about today’s hearings, and I have too, since nothing seems to sink in with the lumpenmittel, but damn me if Pramila Jayapal didn’t live up to all the hyperbolic twitter verbs. She eviscerated, destroyed and ethered Roy Cohn Jr. She even reclaimed her time
ETA: Watching it again: Watch Barr’s jaw. He wasn’t ready for this.
Kropacetic
@opiejeanne: No, we got a good spot.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whoa, you’re not kidding! She nailed his ass.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Joe Neguse also rattles him.
namekarB
If your fears come to pass and the USPS fails to deliver mail-in-ballots timely then yes there is a distinct possibility of Republicans being under counted initially since (in my county) Republican mail-in-voters outnumber Democratic mail-in-voters each of which is outnumbered by No-Party-Preference mail-in-voters
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Neguse is excellent. I know him from the impeachment.
mrmoshpotato
@opiejeanne: Is gas station sushi worse than the rolls you can get at the supermarket?
Patricia Kayden
Mike in NC
@Kropacetic: Stay away from week-old sushi. Might be from Mar-A-Lago.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Wow.
[Takes up smoking, enjoys celebratory cigarette.]
That was very much on point, very well delivered.
“Uh, that’s not a federal building.”
No shit, Sherlock.
trollhattan
@mrmoshpotato:
Technically there’s nobody left alive to render a comparison.
Patricia Kayden
Jim, Foolish Literalist
more Jayapal:
karen marie
Who is this “we”?
karen marie
@kindness: I’m just hoping that once Trump is no longer president that Twitter bans him, because you know that he’s never going to shut up.
Kropacetic
They’re probably from the same distributor.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
MSNBC has cut back to the hearings, and Barr looks tired and rattled. I don’t know if it will change anything, but it’s interesting
oatler.
I don’t know who the woman is grilling Barr (CSPAN isn’t identifying anyone) but she’s handing his ass to him.
trollhattan
@Kropacetic:
All y’all must live in deprived regions. Several supermarkets here have in-house sushi chefs. Of course there’s a LOT of competition and that’s before considering all the poki joints that sprang forth the last few years.
Kropacetic
@trollhattan: My local supermarket used to have an in-house chef. They probably didn’t do enough business. To be fair, we have 3 great sushi places within five miles and about 4 more OK ones.
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: As long as there’s no organ failure, it’s only enhanced coaching.
OGLiberal
@Yutsano: RCP Averages….
PA: Biden +7.4
WI: Biden +6.4
FL: Biden +7.8
Ain’t taking any of these for granted at all but while you could consider these traditional swing/”battleground” states, the current polling doesn’t indicate “toss-up”. Swing/”Battleground” is used to describe states that are often close or a deciding factor in an election. “Toss-up”, “lean”, “solid” are used to describe the current state of the polls. So, yeah, not toss-ups at the current moment.
Ken
@karen marie: Ah, but if he twits the wrong stuff, he can be arrested for violating national security. Unlike now, where I can only assume someone circulated a memo saying “just assume when he twits classified information that he’s declassifying it – we’ve given up trying to teach him the difference, or the required procedures”.
piratedan
I’m sure that there’s a great way for us to bring down the deficit if we simply allow people to thwack William Barr with a stick. 10.00 a pop and we could simply classify this as interaction with a public servant. It would be a lot more therapeutic than watching him lie his ass off while on the public payroll with this constant theme of laws “are what we say they are, unless you’re in charge”.
trollhattan
@Kropacetic:
The other piece of the puzzle is access to good-quality fish, which IIUC can be really tricky. Otherwise they have to crank out goopy rolls doused in sauce, which gets tiresome fast.
bemused
I’ve only heard bits of Barr hearing while in the car today. I could tell when it was a Republican up to bat when they were relating stories about protestors, etc that I have never heard of. No doubt that they are all bullshit that comes out of the wingnut pipeline.
Kropacetic
Now that’s wrong. The laws are still whatever Republicans say they are even if Dems are in charge.
Kropacetic
@trollhattan: I would say this market has good fish. Yuppieville Massachusetts wouldn’t have it any other way. Good prices too. That’s the only place I’ll go for fish, though I’ve considered trekking a couple towns over to the Vietnamese supermarket. Their prices are mind-blowingly good. But the prices are so good it makes me question the quality of the fish, even though it looks OK. How do they do it?
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Obviously, he didn’t drink enough vodka.
zhena gogolia
Barr is an evil, disgusting pig.
Captain C
@trollhattan: Addenda:
1a) Don’t accept less than 9 figures, cash, in advance. If 9 figures is not enough to thoroughly bankrupt said friend, demand enough to do so. ETA: Put cash in an untouchable offshore account.
3a) Point out that a) there’s no written contract and he can’t prove anything, b) even verbally, you never specified which election (make sure you don’t), c) as you already have all of Trumpist friends’ money you can outlawyer the fuck out of him
OGLiberal
@Baud: In my neck of Northeast PA there are areas that Obama won by double digits in 2008 and 2012 that Clinton either barely won or barely lost in 2016. Have to think the and old white guy with roots in the area can improve upon that just a bit, if not by a lot. He does that and he wins PA – it’s not like there was a huge vote difference between Trump and Clinton in 2018. Sure, the rural areas here are filled idiots flying Trump flags along with Confederate flags (because, you know, PA was such an important member of the Confederacy) but the cities/towns in the Wyoming Valley are historically and still are pretty blue – e.g, both Wolf and Casey won Lackawanna County handily in 2018.
Captain C
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: “Show him the instruments again.”
“I’m sorry! I’m sorry! The President can do whatever he likes!”
Sister Golden Bear
@Kropacetic: “If you can’t eat their food, drink their booze, screw their women, take their money and then vote against them, you have no business being up here.” — long-time CA pol, Jesse “Big Daddy” Unruh
Rand Careaga
@Kay:
Well, Joseph James DeAngelo, the “Golden State Killer,” is facing life in prison—or, should he be sentenced to death, at least that long—but of course, he’s Stone’s senior by not quite seven years. Will Barr attempt to arrange for his release? Is it fair for a 74 year-old man to be sent to prison for so long?
glory b
@Baud: I’m late to the party, but once again, I’ll point out that in the last 5 statewide elections, Trump and Toomey were the ONLY REPUBLICANS TO WIN. We elected a majority Dem Supreme Court, Superior Court, Governor, Attorney General, Auditor General, etc.
As I said previously, I smell a rat. Why would Pennsyltuckians vote for Trump and Toomey, then vote for Dems for the courts and other offices?
Our Supreme Court ungerrymandered (at least to some extent) our Congressional districts, so Dems have a better chance there too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Calvinball
FTR, I don’t imagine at this point anything released about the Russia investigation will move anything but the discourse on Fox. trump would attempt to indict Biden, I don’t think Barr (and Kellyanne and the other White House lawyers) would push that far. Though John Brennan may need to start a go fund me to fight off some corrupt government prosecution.
OGLiberal
@oatler.: My favorite book of all time. Too bad the guy who played Milo in the movie is a wing nut lunatic.
Ken
Middle school band starts playing “King of the Road”.
Captain C
@Ken: Band director: “CIA? KGB? Pfft! Amateurs!”
frosty
@joel hanes: The bolded phrase was my favorite definition. Not just that they can do anything you can’t stop them from doing, which is pretty basic. No, they have the right to do anything you can’t stop them from doing.
That’s some catch that Catch-22. I need to read this book again.
Chris Johnson
There is a HUGE amount of energy going into keeping all this propped up. That energy is coming out of Russia. Putin’s overextended, looking at domestic trouble as his approach there is not really any better for governance than it is here.
In order to keep people legitimately fascist when they’re Americans, the QAnon right wing thought-minders have to keep their people REALLY terrified, positively hysterical and under an ungodly amount of stress. Plus they’re also required to be the shock troops of ‘refuse to wear masks, fight modern medicine, don’t believe in any modern liberal science or governance’. They have to PRACTICE that stuff in order to spread it. It doesn’t work if they’re all so pilled that they’re manipulating people openly that way: it seems like that’s what is happening but people are so fucking dumb at times and all this keeps them panicky and suspicious. It’s well orchestrated.
We are seeing not the threat of a war, but the peak of a war. This is the time when we prevail through sheer numbers and American stubbornness and throw the rascals out, or better still hold them accountable and see justice done. They weren’t able to replace all the courts, or destroy everything about the country. It’s just too big.
It’s funny: when wingnuts take over a building or form a mob and we don’t go and mow them down with deadly force, that’s because it’s RIGHT to just go by civilized methods and take ’em to court and grind ’em down based on what they’ve done that is against the law. When Trump’s idiots respond to an unruly center of a larger protest by attacking people with deadly force, they are not just wrong on the law, they are also inspiring more and more people to join the other side once it gets personal. And it’s too late to stop now: the more cities Trump attacks, the more ‘walls of Moms’, ‘walls of Dads’, ‘walls of vets’ they’ll create, and those people will not be voting for Trump, even if some of ’em might have done just that if left alone to be dumb and silly on their own.
Once you’ve been radicalized in this way there is no ‘Well maybe it’d be good for the stock market’ or anything like that.
scav
@germy: Since when has Trump had morals, Kurt ol’ boy?
Kent
@Kropacetic: The best of all worlds would be a black woman AG citing Barr memos as precedent for expansive presidential powers for why the president has absolute authority to crack down on polluters, rich GOP tax cheats, and fraudulent real estate investors.
Kay
Look at that. Exactly what they did to Cohen. Criticize Donald Trump and back to jail you go!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this may be the best AG speculation/wishcast I’ve heard.
debbie
Couldn’t get here earlier, but NPR’s On Point ran an hour on this:
Audio here. (July 28, 2020)
PST
@Tony Jay:
No, you’re thinking of Curt Schilling.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t know- the legal brilliance of Team Trump will be hard to top:
Bow down to Donald Trump’s special police or you lose your First Amendment rights.
zhena gogolia
@frosty:
That quotation made me want to read it again too.
PST
@OGLiberal:
Maybe it made him better at delivering lines like this:
James E Powell
@OGLiberal:
I see those numbers and I wonder, what the hell happened to my beloved home state of Ohio?
Ken
@James E Powell: Rampant bribery and corruption designed to put the Republicans in power?
trnc
@germy:
Like so many things, repubs accuse liberals of false flag operations while routinely engaging in them.
trnc
@PST:
And scene.
Tony Jay
You know, when I jokingly suggested that the Kurt Schlichter mentioned above was the same person as the 138 year old (dead) former Chancellor of Weimar Germany Kurt Von Schleicher, I truly did not suspect that any confusion would ensue.
But then again, where extremist, dictator-fluffing conservative hacks are concerned, there’s always that lingering doubt, so it’s not really that surprising.
Ruckus
@Baud:
Trumpade.
Sour, bitter, disgusting, and actually poisonous.
Jinchi
Pretty sure it doesn’t become declassified just because he broadcasts it on twitter. The president can say anything he likes, but anyone else in government can be sent to jail or fired for repeating it.
Kristine
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That’s how I feel about all of them. I’m not interested in listening to their lies and bs justifications. I just want them gone.
Ruckus
@scav:
Surly you jest.
shitfobrains has morals. OK, they are actually immorals, but he still has them.
frosty
@schrodingers_cat: You nailed it!
One fundraising thread, followed by a respite thread.
patrick II
@Rand Careaga:
Bill Bar is 70. So, yes.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: That same fucker just dismissed Roger Stone’s crimes as “esoteric made-up crimes”, not “meat-and-potatoes crimes”. Graffiti tag a courthouse and boy howdy, his boys will be on you with the cattle prods.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
More like Schleicher wanted to be dictator himself but couldn’t get the support. The plan Hitler followed was Schleicher’s plan. Don’t buy into the Big Lie that Hitler was some random mad man who took advantage of the naive German conservatives of 30’s.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Kay: Anyway bother to ask Barr what does that make the Founding Fathers?
ballerat
@Kay: You are assuming it wasn’t corrupt before this.
The rapidity of the collapse with so little resistance suggests that it was.
Tony Jay
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Oh, I’m not, but what Schleicher thought he could do with the Nazi Party (use it, split it, exploit it) relied on it being a political party with factions and agendas, rather than what it was, a cult built around the ego of a paranoid little bastard with big little dreams.
It never repeats, but it does rhyme.