Barack Obama is warning Democrats not to be “complacent or smug” about the presidential race. The former president spoke at a fundraiser for Joe Biden that brought in $7.6 million.https://t.co/psmlgjaAtC
— The Associated Press (@AP) June 24, 2020
"I'm going to say this, and I hope Joe doesn't take offense to this, but…you know, Joe's been around for a while. And we tend to that for granted." – @BarackObama just now at the event with @JoeBiden.
— Malcolm P. Johnson (@admiralmpj) June 23, 2020
Updated fundraising total: Obama and Biden's reunion tonight raised more than $11 million, including $7.6m from 175,000 grassroots donors. Trump campaign had tried to dunk on Biden camp, touting the $10m it raised over the weekend around the Tulsa rally. https://t.co/KdezWGfQod
— Jennifer Epstein (@jeneps) June 23, 2020
And I second this, from Donna Edwards for the Washington Post — “It doesn’t matter which woman Joe Biden picks as his running mate”:
Call me crazy, but I have decided to not be invested in former vice president Joe Biden’s selection of a running mate. The stakes are simply too high to declare bright lines based on whom Biden chooses. And, while it is interesting to listen to the arguments for or against various prospects, I’m far more interested in getting Biden elected to end the reign of incompetence, cruelty and racism of the current occupant of the White House.
I would rather focus on strengthening Biden’s governing agenda — health care, reforming the criminal justice system, economic inclusion, the climate crisis. I trust that Biden will choose someone to advise him on a governing agenda that returns competency and accountability to government, and enables the United States to reclaim its seat at the international table. I am confident he will choose someone who is prepared to be president yesterday…
Each of the prospects who have been identified publicly has strengths and weaknesses — wrong geography, problematic record, untested, unknown — including things we do not know that will be revealed only in a thorough background inquiry. Like any good executive, I would expect Biden’s choice to bolster his weak spots and complement his strengths. Remember when the rap on Barack Obama was that he did not have sufficient experience in foreign policy and was not deeply connected in Washington? Well, he chose Biden as his running mate to counter those weaknesses. I expect Biden will do the same — someone younger and ready on day one to be president; someone to rally the masses; someone who’s prepared to step onto the world stage; someone to allay concerns of a skeptical left; someone to whom he could turn as a peer…
WereBear
I do not remember anyone’s sensible concerns about Pence being aired so very damn much…
Baud
An NYT story worth clicking.
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
Baud
Geopolitical smash and grab.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
Baud
Progressives had a good night in NYC, and the GOP is looking to out-young AOC.
Baud
I wonder if there should be a moratorium on statue toppling, which seems to have become a distraction from the main BLM message.
Immanentize
@Baud: Didn’t Trump announce just such a moratorium? You two are aligned!
WereBear
@Baud: They were way out of line targeting Ulysses S. Grant. The more I know about him, the more admirable I find him.
PST
@Baud: 538 shows a 14.6 percent gap for Trump’s approval. It’s been a long time since he was so far down by that measure.
Cheryl Rofer
Russia’s delayed Victory Day parade is just starting. You can see it with English commentary here. Or with Russian commentary here.
Baud
@Immanentize:
He’s leading!
Seriously, I fear that the action is moving from sincere activists to kids that just want to break shit. And it’s definitely occupying the media’s attention more than police brutality.
HinTN
@Baud: While that presents as sensible and rational it also presents as paternalistic and the same old “there there, wait your turn” response received a thousand times before.
Baud
@HinTN:
It’s not paternalistic to worry about loss of focus.
Steeplejack (phone)
Today’s light reading (from Father’s Day).
debbie
@Baud:
If I prayed, I’d be praying that Bibi tosses and turns every night about his future.
Immanentize
@Baud: The loss of focus is that of the media, not of the sincere activists trying to get to real change in their communities.
Also, sadly, the police somewhere will do something outrageous and horrific soon enough to refocus even the wandering eye of the media.
Also, those statues really got to go.
OzarkHillbilly
@Steeplejack (phone): I didn’t even notice my birthday and neither did anyone else. Does that count?
PST
@HinTN:
I don’t know about that. In Madison last night the statue of an abolitionist Union officer who died in battle was torn down. It’s getting random.
debbie
@Baud:
Worse, it gives BLM’S opponents another issue to use against them.
Immanentize
@debbie: Your goals are small if you want a deity to get involved….
Baud
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: I think I noticed it last year, so take one age year for two birthdays? But this one time only, K?
And Happy marking of another trip around our friend, the sun. ?
debbie
@Immanentize:
Confederate generals, certainly. But Grant was who defeated them. That’s not the media; that’s forgetting what the fight is about.
Baud
@Immanentize:
Yes, it’s the media I’m talking about, which I think any serious movement would have an eye on.
Why does Grant have to go?
raven
@Baud: Weren’t we warned yesterday to be prepared to freak out about that poll?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud:
That’s not The Onion? Because if it’s real, it’s wrong!
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
It’s not that they didn’t notice, it’s that they couldn’t (easily) count that high.
Happy Birthday, youngster! (Whenever it was)
Baud
@raven: I missed that.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Happy birthday!
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: What do they intend to call this new game?
NotMax
Watching Frost/Nixon on Netflix. Hadn’t seen it before. Solid production, jibes fairly closely with memories of the time. Frank Langella’s portrayal of Tricky Dick is masterful.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Calvinball.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
If it’s your birthday, Happy Day! ?
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: I’m not sure how you could have taken note of it. As best I can recall I’ve never said when it was.
debbie
Did anyone watch American Experience’s program on Toni Morrison? What a treasure!
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
The BJ hive has spoken. Your birthday is today.
OzarkHillbilly
@debbie: It’s not, and if it was I’d still say it’s not.
spudgun
@debbie: I thought he was going to be indicted…what happened to that? Why is his miserable carcass still PM??
Baud
According to Kristen Weller this morning, the presidential race is “competitive” because the Dems are competitive in Arizona.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: I think that means we should start every morning with “Happy Birthday OH!”
Immanentize
@debbie: Personally, I think that Pelosi removing the portrait of the former speaker from the 1880s who only fought for the Confederacy as a teenager was probably an overreaction. Soldiers are not so easily blamed for the sins of their leaders, I think. But, so what if I think that? Is Pelosi ruining everything by not accepting my distinctions?
I read a great tweet by Ida Bae saying that enthusiasms and even excesses at times like this are likely to happen.
Why do people obsess about the mistakes? It really seems that focussing on misjudgments of people in the streets is just a way of separating oneself from the harder justice issues. It’s like the long history of saying, I’m all for:
— Ending police violence but do they have to throw water bottles?
— Removing racist statues but Grant only owned slaves for a short time
— Equality, but do they have to provoke the police by crossing that bridge?
— Women’s rights, but do they have to be so strident about it?
Message to all people fighting for justice —
Do it right!
Don’t make a mistake!
Go slow! (Mississippi Goddam)
I am watching you!
NotMax
@OzarkHilbilly
Okay then, Happy Blechday!
;)
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Figured as much.
Baud
@Immanentize:
We’ve seen movements get side tracked in the past, either due to internal or external forces. We don’t want to see it happen again. We want trouble spots to be nipped in the bud. No one is above comment and criticism.
Immanentize
@Baud: Grant didn’t have to go, but some people know he owned slaves and that pissed them off enough to pull down his statue. I don’t agree with those who did that — they probably didn’t know history as well as we educated white folks. But I really don’t care that much either. Why do you?
We would do this so much better if we were in charge of the protests. Amirite?
Baud
@Immanentize:
Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: well if that’s the case, please add two years to your actual age as a penalty for secret keeping. ?
JPL
If Biden wins by a landslide, should he celebrate with the Dixie Chicks singing the song?
OH This is for you link
Baud
Geminid
Game on in the Virginia 5th Congressional district! U.Va. Medical Center doctor Cameron Webb easily defeated three other good candidates for the Democratic nomination. He’ll face bible thumping Bob Good in November, assuming the state board of elections excuses Good’s late paperwork. Good knocked out incumbent Rep. Denver Riggleman in a “drive through” convention held in a mega-church parking lot, and Riggleman is crying fraud and refuses to endorse Good. Like 2018 Democratic winners Sharice Davids (KS) and Colin Allred (TX), Webb was an Obama White House Fellow.
WereBear
@NotMax: Frank Langella; you got no complaints :)
He impresses me every time I see him.
Baud
Jeffro
The Ds might do themselves some good on the statue issue by expressing concerns that
1) Someone could get hurt when these things get yanked down
2) “While we understand the history of most of these monuments and agree that monuments to the Confederacy should eventually come down, some of our history is a mixed bag – ie Jefferson, Washington – and there really ought to be a community process for potential removals”
3) Remind protestors publicly that we share their goals but don’t want to give the wingers any extra ammo
Just spitballin’
Steeplejack (phone)
@OzarkHillbilly:
Definitely dad territory.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Immanentize: Maybe you should go back and review the objectives and activities of COINTELPRO.
Sloane Ranger
@Baud: I understand that his treatment of Native Americans was bad. One Native American writer justified his statue’s removal on that basis alone.
Don’t know enough about his specific actions to comment.
Baud
@Sloane Ranger:
Almost no one living before 1960 can stand up to modern liberal values.
WereBear
@Sloane Ranger: We have such a checkered history they might ALL have to go.
But why not be pro-active? Where are the Sojourner Truth and Harriet Tubman statues? While nothing is instant, I think swapping stuff out is more positive than just tearing down.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: then again, we have to keep in mind that when there is no ammo for the wingers, they will invent their own:
Tucker Carlson: here’s the REAL reason mobs are tearing down statues…
That’s right, they want to enslave YOU, Real America
Sheer insanity.
Steeplejack (phone)
@rikyrah:
Good morning. ?
Immanentize
@Baud: @Baud:
Including you. You can critique protesters’ individual acts carefully curated from thousands of positive acts. And I can criticize such critiques as being classic — even predictable and historic — anti-protest nit-picking which is used, if not designed, to denigrate all the protests by associating the whole movement with a disagreeable act by a few.
OzarkHillbilly
@Steeplejack (phone): OK, I’m just trying to figure out what defines a Dad thing so I can think back to see if I have done any lately.
Immanentize
@Comrade Scrutinizer: I’m not tracking. Are you saying that Grant was pulled down by government stooges? Or are you saying what I am suggesting — that the government and media are amplifying the Grant topple as a way to divide actual in-the-street protesters from their less engaged allies?
Baud
@Immanentize:
I’m not above criticism. I just ask that you not offer lame criticisms like the one you just did. I did the exact opposite of associating or denigrating the movement with these few disagreeable acts. My worry is that the movement’s message gets sidetracked by these few disagreeable acts, especially if the number of disagreeable acts multiply because no one says anything about them.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jeffro: As usual, he’s wrong. We just want to make him our bitch.
WereBear
@Jeffro: Mr WereBear found out what Roosevelt statue was being lobbied for removal and said, “I think Teddy would be in favor.”
Zzyzx
I’d much rather have people who just want to smash stuff be destroying statues that few people care about than going back to looting. It’s an easier defense to talk up most of the horrors inflicted by the honoree than to get all abstract about how the systemic nature of capitalistic racism means that it’s fine for these white Black Bloc members to smash up that Old Navy so other white peoples can grab clothes.
Baud
@Zzyzx:
Well, yes, if we’re forced to choose, I agree.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
Are we going to re-litigate the People’s Front of Judea *again*?
johnnybuck
@raven: It’s a 538 A+ pollster, and we were warned not to freak out if the poll was closer than others.
Baud
@WereBear:
That’s the museum one, right? Yeah, the problem with that one wasn’t Teddy.
Raven
@WereBear: I’m sure the Buddha laughed when the taliban took 105’s to his statue.
Raven
@johnnybuck: thanking you
Immanentize
@Jeffro:
Reminds me of these Chuck D lyrics:
Steeplejack
@OzarkHillbilly:
Overengineering outdoor stuff counts. You’re in that zone, aren’t you?
Mousebumples
Saw this last night on Twitter, so I thought I’d share. I miss having a President with goodness and humanity in the White House.
https://twitter.com/StanleyKrute/status/1275429939597021184?s=19 (unrolled below)
Zzyzx
@Baud: just because I live in Seattle where they always get hijacked, I see that as just one of the stages that show that the protest has probably reached the point where it’s getting too insular and recursive. But that’s just a phase too.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: Splitter
rikyrah
The thought that any restaurant in America would pull this bullshyt on someone actually willing to come inside and eat????
NotMax
@WereBear
Saw him live on stage in Dracula. He oozed charisma and personality; it washed over the audience like an endless series of waves. Pretty dang studly to boot.
rikyrah
@Mousebumples:
Read this last night ??
This is who Biden is
Immanentize
@Raven: Yes, I remember the warning. Expectation setting?
rikyrah
@WereBear:
Grant won the Civil War.
That one fact…
Nothing else matters to me as a Black woman.
So, yeah leave his statues alone
OzarkHillbilly
via the Seattle Times:
Speaking as someone blessed* with considerable hearing loss, I am wondering how removing my mask will help me hear better.
*I say blessed because not being able hear other people speak makes it easier to ignore them.
JPL
@Mousebumples: Thank you for sharing that story.
rikyrah
@Baud:
This Florida?
Baud
@rikyrah: Yes.
OzarkHillbilly
@Steeplejack: Nah, over engineering would be something like using a solid 10×14 beam when a couple 2x6s nailed together would do the job. I never do more or use more than needed to accomplish the task at hand. I’m cheap and lazy.
narya
Kitchen update: The contractor and the electrician (who’s also the contractor’s son) showed up yesterday to discuss the electric; the electrician didn’t see anything that caused alarm, and I may have him add/map circuits around the rest of the place as well if that isn’t a huge extra amount of effort/cost. We all agreed that we got lucky on the floor and it’s in great shape–doesn’t even have a lot of nail holes or anything. And I can finally get rid of the old alarm system box in the closet, I bet. So, nothing was actually “done,” in that nothing changed, but progress occurred. I think the electric may possibly even occur this week, but we’ll see. They have many years of practice weaving together enough jobs to keep everyone working without stacking up so much that delays occur.
narya
@Mousebumples: This is lovely; thank you. I’ve had my issues with Biden (esp. the Thomas hearing), and still would have preferred someone else, but his decency really makes up for a lot.
Booger
@Geminid: This makes me giddy happy.
The Thin Black Duke
If people are going to invalidate the amazing things the BLM movement has done because a few of the “wrong” statues are coming down, those people are unreliable as allies anyway.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Mitch has been bitching about things like the Grant, Washington and Jackson statues, but had he and his troglodyte caucus acted with empathy and alacrity, things wouldn’t have escalated to this point.
Sadly, they did.
Also, perhaps Rome should stop lionizing and canonizing colonizing clerics. Want to do nice things that recognize Latino culture? Canonize people who selflessly contributed without cruelty.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: Agreed, but raw action is the price you pay to move an entire society in a new direction. I don’t think anyone has ever solved this problem.
Immanentize
In Boston, we have a very complicated statue problem. It’s a statue of Abraham Lincoln. The great emancipator! It is the emancipation statue in Lincoln Park which is a copy of one in DC.
The original was gifted to the US through money collected from former slaves.
But, it shows Lincoln standing over a kneeling black man still with shackles.. Or is the former slaves at Lincoln’s feet just beginning to stand up? Many people don’t like it and want it gone. It shares the same problematic quality as the TR statue in New York.
Mousebumples
@rikyrah:
@JPL:
Happy to share. I’m not Jewish (lapsed Catholic), but it just made my heart feel full. ?
I see enough stuff in the comments here that I wouldn’t see otherwise, so glad to help pay it forward a bit.
Geminid
@Raven: I doubt if Grant would get too strung out over a dozen or so people in San Francisco pulling his statue down, either. Although he might be a little wistful; in his memoirs, he said that but for his promotion as the Union’s sole Lieutenant General he might have had a nice post war career in California, maybe as president of a railroad. He was stationed on the west coast after the war with Mexico, and really liked it out there.
Chief Oshkosh
@HinTN: I guess it IS “paternalistic” to tell people to not randomly break shit. It’s a target rich environment. If shit must be broken, try to avoid the actual good stuff.
Baud
OzarkHillbilly
@Mousebumples: Thanx for this.
Steeplejack
I am getting a haircut at 11:00 after 13 weeks and five days. I am unreasonably excited about this.
Jack Canuck
@OzarkHillbilly: Just a guess, but my assumption was that’s in relation to people who use lip-reading to help with communication.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mousebumples:
That’s great. I shared it on twitter.
Immanentize
@The Thin Black Duke: Agreed. Seconded.
Gin & Tonic
@narya: I took advantage of a kitchen remodel about 8-9 years ago to add a couple of circuits and a bunch of outlets. Actually, current code requires an outlet every 6 feet, I think. Anyway, makes kitchen life more convenient.
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: Got mine cut last week, first time since early Feb. I can report that it felt very good.
Immanentize
@Steeplejack: Good luck and keep that mask on. The Immp wants a haircut and won’t let his father do it. We’ll see.
NotMax
@narya
When it comes to kitchen electrics, there is no such thing as too many outlets. And not just at counter height. If not already there, and the space is available, having one or two strategically placed at baseboard level can be amazingly handy.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Is a puzzlement.
Haroldo
@OzarkHillbilly:
Let me place a reservation for next year’s festivities, then. Happy Birthday.
NotMax
@Gin & Tonic
Last time I had a haircut was 1989. We’ve since reached a state of detente. I don’t bother it and it doesn’t bother me.
;)
Sloane Ranger
@WereBear: Don’t disagree. The same goes here in the UK. The problem is that people are just so complicated and can’t be reduced to goodies and baddies. Even the slave trader whose statue came down in Bristol, can’t even remember his name now, used his I’ll gotten gains to help the poor and needy. That was why his statue was put up in the first place, not because he was a slave trader.
I think the issue in the US with Confederate traitors is fairly clear cut and I would be happy to see statues of anyone who made money directly from slave trading and slave owning come down but after that? We really need to look at each person individually, consult widely and then make a decision, accepting that not everyone will be happy with that decision.
Personally, I’d be happy to see Maggie Thatcher and Oliver Cromwell come down but whatever.
Baud
@Sloane Ranger:
Also, each statue. Like the ones of Teddy and Lincoln mentioned in this thread. Even if those people are acceptable generally, the particular statues at issue may not be.
ETA: Also too, I wish there were more statues of Reagan to tear down.
OzarkHillbilly
@Jack Canuck: But they aren’t reading their own lips. Either the article is really badly worded or the regulation is. That was my point.
OzarkHillbilly
That is correct.
SFAW
@Jack Canuck:
Except if you are the one who’s deaf, you’re the one (possibly) reading other persons’ lips, not vice versa.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I’ll settle for tearing his name off an airport, an aircraft carrier, probably hundreds of streets and parks, buildings, etc etc.
NotMax
Guess it couldn’t hurt to repeat this from late night yesterday in case anyone is looking for something innoxious with which to pass some time.
Felt like vegging out with something preposterous and heavily tinged with humor this afternoon while puttering around the cottage. Little Evil on Netflix filled the bill. Grabs silly firmly by the arm and runs with it through the darkness.
Gin & Tonic
@NotMax: Mine grows so rapidly that if I hadn’t cut it since 1989 it would reach halfway to you by now.
SFAW
Re: statues: apparently there’s a new Rethug talking point that the always-temperate “Democrat activist” Shaun King has said statues of Jesus should be torn down. Or just the ones depicting him looking like a white European. Or something.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: There is a big ugly statue of Reagan at Washington National. I have a length of thick cable….
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m a little more on edge than usual because THE WYSMAN comes out on Saturday. Amazon is screwing around with whether they have the paperback or not, but at least they’re selling through third party vendors. Sometimes it seems like every single step is harder than it needs to be
I remind you that until Saturday, you can get the ebook of WIND READER, the first book in the series, for .99 on Amazon.
In the meantime, here’s the trailer for THE WYSMAN.
Now I have to clear out of my unit so someone can come in and work on it. We’re going to drive to a different park and walk. Maybe I’ll burn off some anxiety.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize:
Reagan did a lot of damage. I loathe the man.
O. Felix Culpa
We’re having a struggle over statues in New Mexico, some of which celebrate particularly bloody conquistadors. That movement has tapped into and resurfaced age old divisions and resentments between Native Americans, the descendants of the Hispanic colonizers, and more recently arrived Anglos (whites). As this morning’s discussion suggests, the removal of some statues seems pretty clear cut; in the case of other statues it’s (potentially) more complicated.
But in the larger picture, I find it concerning when people get more worked up over broken statuary than over centuries of broken people. I get that the optics of tearing down statues might deflect the message for some, but as the Thin Black Duke says, those folks were unreliable allies anyway. Remember that the oppressor never gives up power voluntarily and the message to those who mobilize for justice is always some variant of “you’re doing it wrong.” My hope is that this resurgent movement for racial justice in our country has real staying and changing power, regardless of a few optical “excesses.”
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@rikyrah: I honestly can not understand what the hell the restaurant manager was thinking…how are people this racist AND stupid in 2020??
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I sometimes have an (internal) “theological” debate re: whether Nixon or Reagan is more responsible for the current Rethuglican Partei. I think the correct answer is “Yes.”
Although Newtie is also in contention.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Sloane Ranger:
What idiot put up a Cromwell statue?
The Thin Black Duke
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Trump would not have been possible if not for Reagan. Sometimes even a few of his critics underestimate what a catastrophe that monster was to this country.
WereBear
@NotMax: So studly he’s still got it.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Found the answer to my own question – Parliament, in a narrow vote with vehement opposition on the other side.
hueyplong
Emotional line-drawing on statue removal could be perceived as a godsend by FoxNews.
Once they’re leading with it every day, we’ll know that our work on statue removal is done and it’s back to the things that got us to 51-38 or 50-41 or wherever we are right now.
Like people dying due to a pandemic and police riots, and criminals getting off because they’re part of the Trump/Barr RICO ring. Not hayseeds making their last stand because BLM/ACORN/NewBlackPanthers/soshulists are coming for the Jesus statues I’ve never seen.
Immanentize
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I think King Charles II erected the first statue of Oliver Cromwell in London.
Barbara
@SFAW: I’m pretty sure King isn’t calling for the removal of any statues on private property, but fwiw, I think statues of Jesus have no place on public property and should be removed.
NotMax
@Gin & Tonic
Sort of a slower motion Peanut Butter Solution?
:)
artem1s
@Baud:
WTF, the continued attempt to turn baseball into football goes on. The beauty of baseball is being ruined by the ADHD gambling addicted fantasy league idiots who can’t abide the slow unwind of a well pitched game that leaves control of the ball in the defense’ hands.
Start your own damn Extreme Baseball league if you want. Let the players use metal bats. Add an offensive tackle to the center field who gets to bum rush the pitcher between pitches and block the fielders when a fly ball comes their way. Award 3 points to any player who reaches third base and 7 for a home run (BTW, there is a LOT scores in baseball are much higher than football if you score the games the same way). Allow the infielders to tackle base runners – make injuries your game plan to keep the opposition from winning the game.
Leave our game alone FFS.
Immanentize
@O. Felix Culpa: I’ve been trying to follow the New Mexico statue debates. It is complicated — especially as two groups generally perceived as oppressed battle over their historic imagery. But, the fact that someone cut off the foot of the statue of Onate gives me no end of pleasure. It even, as Marie Kondo would say, sparks joy.
SFAW
@Barbara:
Disclaimer: I haven’t delved enough into it to know what’s what, but I thought I read about King talking about the whole white-Jesus thing. If that’s what he was actually saying, then I think he needs a clue-injection. Re: Jesus on public property: I agree with you.
WereBear
The number of fine Presidents who were also failed businesspeople (Harry S Truman comes to mind) means we should SUPERRETHINK that whole model.
Heidi Mom
@rikyrah: I humbly offer two more reasons: 1) Before the war, while Grant’s fortunes were at a low ebb, his father-in-law, a Missouri slave owner who fancied himself an old-school Southern gentleman, gave a slave to Grant’s wife, Julia. It may be technically correct to say that Grant then owned the slave, given marital property laws at the time. When Julia’s father died, Grant immediately freed the man, then hired him as a farm hand at a decent wage. 2) As President, Grant tried hard to “win” Reconstruction, sending in federal troops when the rights (and lives) of freed slaves were threatened.
Jinchi
They also communicate by expression themselves. Think putting mittens on someone who relies on sign language. It doesn’t matter if the other person is deaf.
Omnes Omnibus
Could you explain to me why the Forward and Heig statues in Madison had to go?
Eunicecycle
@Jinchi: I saw an interpreter today with a mask that had a clear covering over her lips! At first I thought WTF? then went Ohhhhh.
Marcopolo
@Baud: This 1000%. I read this yesterday and it really does crystalize/explain a lot of what has happened with the left over the last century or so.
It’s a long, thought-provoking read.
CarolDuhart2
I’m not too worried about the statues. Statues can be replaced, after all, and since nobody seems to make aesthetic judgments about them, I assume none of them have much artistic value, which is harder to replace. Yes, it can be overkill, but when things quiet down a bit, there can be new ones for the good folks whose statues have been torn down-maybe even better ones.
For the rest, maybe they can be replaced by trees and shrubs. No more checkered history or disreputable honorees, and everyone likes trees. And they are more beautiful, unlike so many of the statues they replaced
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: We watched Frost/Nixon on Netflix this weekend and thought it was pretty good.
@Jeffro: It might make sense for individual elected Democrats to respond that way when asked about specific incidents. But IMO, the party should be very careful about doing/saying anything that could be interpreted as co-opting the protests or assuming the protesters are on “our side.” AFAIK, they have been thus far, and that’s wise.
hueyplong
@Heidi Mom: With Andrew Johnson before him and the Compromise of 1877 after him, Grant can fairly be called the only president who took a stab at winning Reconstruction.
Mousebumples
@narya:
I understand the concerns. (though I had read something in the last week or two – don’t have a link handy – that indicated Biden realized afterwards that he needed female voices in the room and worked to get newly elected Carol Mosesly Braun and Feinstein (I think?) onto the next term’s Judiciary Committee for that reason)
I intentionally didn’t pick out a favorite (Wisconsin primary is late anyway) so it may be easier for me to support him without reservations.
narya
@NotMax: @Gin & Tonic:
Current code requires more outlets than the previous kitchen incarnation had, so I have to get more, by default. No real baseboard showing, though that’s an excellent suggestion; it’s a small kitchen, and the only place I can think to add one would be next to the stove (which is just far enough away from the door so the door can swing in). There are a couple of tweaks that i’m excited to incorporate: (1) a pull-out with the trash & recycling bins, so they will no longer take up floor space or prevent the door from opening all the way; (2) not replacing the cabinets next to the window, which will (a) let in more light and (b) enable me to put up shelves with hooks on the bottom, to hang some pans that I use a lot; and (3) under-cabinet lighting, so I can see what I’m doing. I believe that these will make a disproportionate amount of difference in terms of functionality, as will additional sockets and overall better wiring
Another Scott
@OzarkHillbilly: ASL? Mouth cues?
Dunno.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Thin Black Duke: I don’t think that BLM was involved in the the Madison statue topplings.
artem1s
@The Thin Black Duke:
I’m a lot more troubled by the (white) folks that are thinking they get to choose when to validate a legitimate movement by turning it into a (violent) ‘revolution’. I’ve been nothing but impressed by BLM leaders and the majority of the protesters. Their efforts to ID those who are instigating violence needs to continue. I hope they continue to out those who are only interested in mayhem if only to demonstrate to elected officials that they are working towards real, lasting change. Tearing down statues is all fine and good but in the end is only symbolic if there is no change connected to the removal. Those who worshiped those statues and used them to intimidate won’t stop just because Mars Lee isn’t standing up there tacitly approving of them. BLM knows and understands this, but I’m not sure those hopped up on their ‘revolution’ adrenaline do.
Immanentize
@Heidi Mom: And/or:
Outright “ownership” and “profiting from the labor” of slaves is different, but….
I am a big Grant fan. But I like my history straight.
PS. By Grant’s own letter of manumission of his slave, William Jones, in 1859, Grant says he bought him from his father in law.
O. Felix Culpa
@Immanentize: Hehe. Same here.
That said, feelings are running high right now and it’s perilous (and perhaps presumptuous) for an Anglo to weigh in on the debates. I think it’s important for the more directly involved parties to have their say and be heard. Then continue bending the arc towards justice.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t know anything about it — why do you think people thought they had to go?
OzarkHillbilly
I think they meant backsplash, with is the vertical part at the back of the countertop.
Eunicecycle
@narya: we did a kitchen remodel where my favorite thing was under cabinet lighting. It really helps aging eyes, so you’ll be glad in the future!
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: I am not the one who said that the statues had to go. My guess is that the people involved were not closely aligned with BLM and were more in tune with Black Bloc. Those particular statues did not have any association with oppression (except, I guess) with Heig who was associated with oppression in that he was an anti-slavery activist who became a Union officer and was killed at Chickamauga). But, again, I am not the one who said that they had to go. Since you did, I was asking you to explain.
Steeplejack
@OzarkHillbilly:
I think NotMax meant down low; he specifically said, “And not just at counter height.”
OzarkHillbilly
@narya: And if you are looking for recommendations I will pass along my wife’s whole hearted gushing approval of the pull out shelves I put in our base cabinets. It gets a little embarrassing every time she brings it up to folks but It is nice not having to get down on one’s knees to dig around in the back of the cabinet.
OzarkHillbilly
@Steeplejack: Well, it’s illegal to have an outlet at baseboard height. Last I knew minimum ht was 14″ above the floor. I do know all the outlets at the countertop have to be GFI’d.
ETA Correction: It is illegal to install an outlet at baseboard ht yadda yadda yadda. It’s OK if they are grandfathered. Which if I recall correctly any kitchen rehab would end any grandfathering.
Of course, this all assumes that Narya lives in a place that enforces code, which I don’t live in one, and can lead to all kinds of unpleasant discoveries, like the lack of properly vented plumbing, or a septic tank that dumps directly on the ground.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Yup, in addition (as I said). There are times (for example, while vacuuming, or using/charging a laptop on a kitchen table) when having a cord snaking across the counter and stretched out hanging in midair can be a detriment.
opiejeanne
@OzarkHillbilly: I said the same thing when I read that deaf or hard of hearing are exempt from wearing a mask. That article about the exceptions to masking in Washington State doesn’t specify just what those medical conditions are that would be excepted.
mrmoshpotato
Not sure if this was posted already but the Internet made it happen.
NotMax
@OzarkHillbilly
Didn’t mean inset in the baseboard, rather the bottom of the outlet plate just about flush with the top of the baseboard. Commonly see that here, anyway, even in new construction.
mrmoshpotato
@WereBear: Yeah. I mean, WTF, you morons?
opiejeanne
@Jack Canuck: Again, how does this help if it’s the lip-read who removes their mask? I think they got it backwards.
OzarkHillbilly
@NotMax: The national code, which is what most jurisdictions follow, said 14″. Some locations change parts of the code to suit their local…. Tastes? But most just go with the whole book as it’s easier. I always assumed it was a matter of mopping, but it could be a floodwater thing as in a sewer backing up. I am certainly not fully cognizant of all the electrical codes, knowing just enough to get myself in more trouble than I can get out of.
Gin & Tonic
@OzarkHillbilly: Every time I’ve had work done by a contractor, one of the first questions is “do you want me to pull a permit?” Like it’s optional. Which, maybe it is in my town.
I always say “yes.” Because if the stove explodes or the walls catch fire, the insurance company will likely be interested in that sort of thing.
Aleta
@Immanentize: More (by Philip Leigh):
https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/did-ulysses-grant-own-and-rent-slaves/by
Barbara
@CarolDuhart2: Virtually none of these statues has artistic merit. Many were stamped out by the same factories, with the same molds of horse and rider, with the head customized to represent the image of whoever it was that was supposed to be depicted. Not all, of course, but I assume that only a very small percentage of these statues will find permanent display anywhere else after they have been taken down. They are not necessary to tell the story of the Civil War, although in some cases they might help to tell the story of its aftermath, which is really what their placement was about — the rise of Jim Crow white supremacy in the South.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: It’s either required by law or it’s not. I tell people that not getting a permit is granting permission for substandard construction. The permit doesn’t *usually* cost that much and yes, insurance companies and banks want everything up to code. In addition to the safety factor is the resale value. Houses 2 miles away from me in Franklin Co always sell for more than they do here in Washington Co, simply because people can be more sure that they were built right.
** cost of permit varies by location. I couldn’t believe how much they cost in some areas of California.
WaterGirl
@rikyrah: I started crying at the part where the 9-year-old describes the cop who recognized him (i think it was a cop) and then the newscaster was so sweet saying the kid was welcome to dinner at his house any time. Then the mom says they will definitely take him up on that offer, and at the end the newscaster reiterates that the dinner invite is for real. Good people, all around.
jeffreyw
@Eunicecycle:
https://whats4dinnersolutions.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/20190317_212847-1600×1200.jpg
satby
@SFAW: two deaf people conversing may also mouth the words or use other facial expressions to communicate. Like @Jinchi: also says.
Shown here in this sweet video.
SFAW
According to TPM, the Court of Appeals has ordered Judge Sullivan to dismiss the Flynn case
ETA: I tried reading the decision, but then remembered that I’m not an attorney, and punted.
narya
I did not have him pull permits (because Chicago can take a loooooooong time for that), because they’re not moving plumbing or gas, and everyone is licensed and he’s insured and comes with great recommendations from someone I know/trust. I live in an old (>100 years) condo building, but it has been very well managed over time, and some current owners have been here >25 years. I have found that the previous owners of my unit were pretty good–they didn’t paint the (amazing!!) woodwork, they didn’t pull out the built-ins, picture rails, etc., and they didn’t walk out with the dining room door that has a gorgeous stained glass window. I will have outlets in the backsplash, but I could also add one to the wall next to the stove (technically above the baseboard, as folks noted).
Geminid
@WereBear: Grant was a good administrator and knew how to delegate responsibility to the right people. He also got a good basic civil engineering education at West Point. He probably would have done fine out on the west coast.
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
We need a new open thread, stat!
SFAW
@SiubhanDuinne:
We need a new open thread, stat!
Lordmistermix hear our prayer!WaterGirl
@rikyrah: The worst part was watching that little nazi pretending to be on the mom’s side – oh, do you live close so you can take your little boy home to change so he’ll meet our dress code – knowing the whole time that there was no problem at all, just so he could humiliate the woman and her son.
Fucking nazi I hope he can’t find a job anywhere. What a fucking pig, shown to be exactly what he is.
Jeffro
@Geminid:
@Booger:
Me, the Mrs, and Fro-ette all voted for one of the other Ds yesterday. This morning, we could care less that she lost: we’re all in for Webb and rooting for R injuries.
It’s great living in a blue state; the prospect of having a blue Rep (finally) just makes my morning!
WaterGirl
@SFAW: How can they even DO that?
SiubhanDuinne
@SFAW:
New thread upstairs.
Geminid
@Jeffro: I voted for Hufstetler myself. But one of the advantages of a primary is that we get to see who has the right stuff. It looks like Webb has it. In 2018 we came within 7 points with a candidate that I, at least, thought was mediocre, chosen by caucuses. This seat is winnable, and I don’t think 5th district Democrats have ever been this motivated.
low-tech cyclist
As much as I respect Donna Edwards (and did my bit to help her kick Al Wynn to the curb), she’s dead wrong on this – for precisely the reason she gives: “while it is interesting to listen to the arguments for or against various prospects, I’m far more interested in getting Biden elected to end the reign of incompetence, cruelty and racism of the current occupant of the White House.”
The essential argument concerning the various prospects is about their effect on turnout – mainly, their effect on turnout of groups that lean strongly Democratic, but aren’t reliable voters. Getting blacks, young people, Hispanics and other minorities to the polls in higher-than-usual numbers would have reversed the outcome in 2016, and would increase the likelihood of a Biden win in November. Rachel Bitecofer’s been talking about this for months, and she’s dead right.
Another Scott
@Marcopolo: Thanks for the pointer. My gut tells me that it’s more complicated than two flavors of liberalism, but my gut is often wrong.
And simple models are necessary for understanding (see Krugman’s IS-LM graphs) even when real life is much more complex.
Cheers,
Scott.
stinger
I hate it when Dad and Other Dad fight.
Tenar Arha
@Immanentize: Yeah, according to this Serwer thread the original in DC was dedicated by Douglass, & even at the time considered paternalistic, and there were other design options (but IIRC more expensive).
debbie
@The Thin Black Duke:
The problem is letting them become a distraction.
debbie
@Baud:
I cannot imagine how anyone would construe anything Abraham Lincoln did to be detrimental to racial injustice. This instance is ridiculous, frankly.
There is no reason not to leave TR up if the Native American and African American statues can be removed. TR led the way in conservation and he deserves to be memorialized for that, esp. in front of the Museum of Natural History.
J R in WV
@Baud:
I saw that, some time back, but couldn’t believe it was real !!! Por Que??? what possible reason>??
Just random poking at the rule book now? Hire a designated runner from the Olympic track team? So strange, maybe Zika on the committee?
Geminid
@debbie: TR also stood up for African American civil servants, as did his successor, Taft. What Woodrow Wilson did to to these civil servants was just shameful.
J R in WV
@Mousebumples:
What a fabulous story, brings tears to my eyes. I hope Joe Biden pulls it off for us. What a guy!!
ETA… thanks so much for sharing this with us!!!
J R in WV
@OzarkHillbilly:
Some people learn lip reading… would be my guess. I Hate loopholes anyone can use to thwart a needed rule!
Richard Guhl
Can we please call a halt to the whining about Democrats getting smug or complacent about the election. I, for one, want to pull my hair out when I hear that nonsense.
For one, none of us have any control over what other people may be thinking or even how they act. There’s really something weird about believing we can hector people into behaving the way we want. In the long run, it’s self-defeating. Ask any woman accused of nagging.
For another, it’s insulting to all those who have ever volunteered for a campaign. I know from personal experience that those of us who worked on behalf of the Clinton campaign in the Lehigh Valley in Pennsylvania worked our tails off, making phone calls, knocking on doors, connecting with unions and student groups. We were not smug or complacent. In the end, our efforts came up short. Misogyny, Russian interference, James Comey, MSM Clinton rules and its unwillingness to take Trump seriously had far greater impact. But it wasn’t for lack of trying on our part.
Instead of wringing our hands, just do what you can. Volunteer, throw cash at the campaign, put up a yard sign. The least productive thing we can do is go woe is us with ZOMG, the sky is falling and we’re going to blow it.
J R in WV
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
I don’t suppose he was thinking “How can I get fired today?” Because that’s what happened… what a dumbass! Pick on the little black kid, let the white kid wearing the same stuff walk right in? Shithead racist!
ETA: As if he was managing a deep south lunch counter in 1957!
Origuy
ASL includes mouth movements as part of the language. If you can’t see the mouth, part of the meaning is lost.
PJ
@Immanentize: Who are the “many people” who don’t like it? The statue of Lincoln in DC, in Lincoln Square, was the first public statue of Lincoln in the US and was financed by donations from ex-slaves. When I lived in the neighborhood, this was common knowledge (I think it’s on a plaque at the monument). It seems like the people who want to tear it down do not care what it meant to the people who paid to erect it.
WaterGirl
@Richard Guhl: Is this too long to be a rotating tag?
AxelFoley
@Sloane Ranger:
Yeah, off the backs of black Africans. He helped poor, white people off the pain of black folks. That nullifies any good he may have done for his fellow white people.