Anyone have any experience with Chromebooks? I’m trying to find a decent laptop (with keyboard) for an elderly relative.
I’ve been looking at 15 inch Chromebooks because their PC was making them crazy as every microsoft update would mess up their settings. Chromebook looks like it runs like a PC without all the MS bullshit. So no learning curve.
They are frail and would rather not deal with those hassles, just wants to surf the internet and keep in touch with family and friends.
Would love to know your thoughts if you’ve used one and maybe answer some questions for me.
Otherwise, if you could just skip over this thread, I’d appreciate it.
I miss Alain, who I would have sheepishly bugged with this question…
Thanks!!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I can’t offer too much advice, but I did use one in high school that the school owned for some classes. They were easy to use. My biggest piece of advice would be to buy the relative a cheap wireless mouse. Much easier to use than the mouse pad on the computer itself
Ronno2018
I have a 15″ HD Acer Chromebook that I like, I keep looking for a newer one. It works fine though. I think it is like this one but with a slightly faster CPU — https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Chromebook-Computer-802-11ac-Bluetooth/dp/B07FSFRWS4/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=Acer+Chromebook+15+hd&qid=1591582164&s=electronics&sr=1-7
TinzyPrime
I’m using one right now and bought one for my 80 year old mother, It’s great for the surfing the internet.
MomSense
I got my mom a kindle fire with the largest screen size. They have keyboard accessories if typing on a tablet is too difficult. They’re excellent for the basics like reading, streaming and email,
The Moar You Know
There’s a learning curve just like there is with any computer, but they are simpler.
My favorite “dead dirt simple” setup is an iPad with a keyboard case. Pretty well impossible to mess that up, and pretty darn secure.
Starfish
It can do email and surfing the internet. It chokes if you are doing something processor heavy like a complex video chat. (Zoom with a bunch of family members.)
Ronno2018
@Ronno2018: A higher resolution display is better — 1920 x 1080 pixels – this model has that — https://www.amazon.com/Acer-Chromebook-CB315-1HT-C4RY-802-11ac-Bluetooth/dp/B08488CGYV/ref=psdc_13896615011_t2_B07TD6T9WV
Let the buyer know that holding down the CTRL key and hitting the plus and minus sign zooms in on web pages and zooms out. Very helpful for older eyes.
Chetan Murthy
I have used three chromebooks over the last 5yr.
(1) 1st gen ASUS Chromebook Flip: lovely, cramped keyboard, cramped screen. But really, really light, and cheeeeeep AF
(2) 2nd gen ASUS Chromebook Flip: fixed screen problem, fixed keyboard problem. Still lovely. But $500. Did I mention GREAT SCREEN?
Both of these were a little … flimsy. B/c hey, REALLY LIGHT. REALLY REALLY LIGHT. Eventually I busted both of them.
(3) HP Chromebook x360 14 (typing this on it): $400 (so cheaper than #2). Sturdy. A littler heavier than #2. Bigger keyboard, bigger screen. All lovely. Sturdy. Did I mention sturdy?
ALSO: I’m a hacker. #1, #2 were too weak to support my development work. #3 is PLENNTY FINE for development (I hack on Linux). I used to carry around my big-ass 4-core 32GB Lenovo dev laptop, when I wanted to do development. NO LONGER: I carry this chromebook, and it’s PLENNTY ENOUGH. Sure, a little slower on builds. But hell, I’ll wait a little, if I can avoid carrying that Lenovo brick. So there’s that.
I heartily recommend this HP Chromebook x360 14. Honestly, I don’t think I’m buying another Lenovo laptop: I mean, all-in with 5yr warranty, the thing cost more per year, than this HP puppy here, which I’ve had since January. If it lasts thru Sept, it’s as cheap as the Lenovo; if it lasts thru year-end, much cheaper, and if it lasts for 2yr (which seems likely), it’s a steal.
Obvs. doesn’t do anything Windows. But the Linux environment is excellent, and I’m a -serious- UNIX hacker: been doing this since 1988 professionally, and this puppy is the boom.
ETA: Oh yeah, the resolution on this HP is too much for my old eyes. I think I’ll -never- actually use it at native resolution. So that’s kinda wasted on it. But apparently you can’t get something with worse resolution, for cheaper, so go figger. Also: I watch movies on it all the time (“Kodi” Android app): flawless.
ETA2: did I mention that you can install android apps? I use Readium and Kodi all the time.
ETA3: The HP is also a “Flip”. So flips into tablet mode (like the ASUS #1, #2) and the screen is always touch-sensitive. Love that. Love it. Use it all the time.
BellyCat
They WILL have questions and need help no matter what you get, so get something you’re familiar with.
(Also, +1 for iPad with keyboard case.)
BigHank53
They’re cheap (usually), the drives are all solid-state, Google takes care of OS updates seamlessly, battery life on the newer ones runs around ten hours…as long as there’s no software that your end user needs to have installed, you should be fine. I have one (a Dell that’s no longer made) for web stuff, and it’s fine.
TaMara (HFG)
@Ronno2018:
@TinzyPrime:
This is good to hear. I’m looking at a 15″, but it looks like the newest version doesn’t have an hdmi port, but there are work arounds. I want an option incase vision is an issue and we need to connect to a larger monitor.
Do I need a username?
I have been using a Google Pixelbook as my hotel room entertainment device for two years now, and I love it. The build quality is excellent, and the ergonomics are well thought out. It’s not cheap though.
E
I’ve been using a Chromebook for 3 years now. When it comes to a laptop I will simply never use Microsoft again. Every computer I’ve ever had within weeks of use it starts to slow to a crawl. For years I thought it was just a bad internet connection. Mainly because it happened with every computer I’ve ever had. It was a revelation when I started using a Chromebook. It was like lightning compared to using Windows. You never have to worry about any kind of antivirus software. You never have to worry about updating it. And at least with mine it’ simply never slows down. Three years after using it it’s just as fast as the day I got it. In fact I’m actually thinking about replacing my desktop with a Chromebox. That’s how much I prefer using Chrome to using Windows.
TaMara (HFG)
@Ronno2018: That’s good to know. I’ve been going back and forth between that and the HP.
TaMara (HFG)
@E: Thank you. I think this is the biggest selling point. If all you want to do is check email and surf the internet, this is so important.
Amir Khalid
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
If the relative is lefthanded, definitely get a mouse. Those touchpads are not set up for us southpaws.
luc
I agree with the Acer 15 inch chromebook recommendation. They do not get hot and have a long battery life. I would suggest any of the ones with 4 Gb of RAM and the Celeron processors. I prefer a FHD screen e.g.: https://www.amazon.com/Chromebook-Intel-Celeron-N3350-Touch/dp/B08488CGYV/ref=sr_1_9?crid=20HG8IHS95E38&dchild=1&keywords=acer+15+inch+chromebook&qid=1591582979&sprefix=acer+15inch%2Caps%2C291&sr=8-9
We have two that are very similar.
Wag
Denver Public Schools has given all of their middles and high school students ChromeBooks for the past few years, and my kids have abused them, and the computers keep working. They also did their virtual learning with them this Spring, and all went well, including the twin’s first AP test. ChromeBooks seem simple and solid.
Benw
It’s fine for web surfing. The question I’d ask is what software do your folks use to “keep in touch with family and friends”?
Xavier
A Chromebox and a cheap monitor might work if portability is not needed.
jackmac
Chromebook might be your simplest and cheapest option but some of the Chromebooks are a bit flimsy. An iPad with keyboard case puts you in the Apple universe, the unit is durable and OS is reliable. It would be great for email, browsing and with enough power and memory to do a Zoom conference with family members.
Roger Moore
@TaMara (HFG):
Check to see if you can mirror the screen to a TV using a Chromecast. You probably can, and it works wirelessly, which is a big win.
Xavier
@TaMara (HFG): the no-hassle virus protection that Google provides is really good for us oldsters too.
Another Scott
I’ve got a couple Toshiba CB35-B3340 13.3 Inch Chromebook (Intel Celeron, 4GB, 16GB SSD, Silver) Full HD-Screen that were fine for web browsing and e-mails, but underpowered for much else (as one would expect with a Celeron processor). I’ve never had any issues with ChromeOS not updating properly or acting weirdly – Google seems to do a good job with it.
Here’s some recent reviews of Chromebooks that are actually available now.
This Acer 315 15.6″ sounds pretty good to me for $399. (I usually get 13″ laptops, myself.)
HTH a little. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Roger Moore:
Being able to cast to a tv from a mobile device is amazing. I have Amazon Fire TV and can cast Youtube videos to my TV from my phone
@Amir Khalid: They’re uncomfortable and awkward to use in general to me
TaMara (HFG)
Okay, you guys have been great (as I knew you would). I’m feeling confident in my recommendation right now.
The hardest part of this is I would usually just get it and set it up for them, but it’s not possible now. Although, since Covid-19 tests are now readily available here now, maybe once they get it, I’ll get tested and then feel comfortable going and setting it up for them.
I’ll check back later and see if anyone anything else to add. ?
TaMara (HFG)
@Roger Moore: Doing a bit of googling, it does look like casting to a tv, you can use it like a monitor. That’s very helpful.
tomtofa
TaMara is looking at 15″units. The biggest iPad is 12.9″, and that plus a keyboard is going to cost a lot more than a Chromebook. Saying that as someone who likes my 12.9″ iPad a lot.
Makes me think, though, about getting a Chromebook for my 90yo father-in-law in Budapest. His old laptop is failing at all the video chat programs – has anyone used their Chromebook for video meetings?
Old Dan and Little Ann
I don’t think you can go wrong with a Chromebook.
JCJ
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@TaMara (HFG):
By the way, are you feeling better? How long did it take to feel “normal” again if you’ve reached that point yet?
cs
I’ve used Chromebooks for quite some time. I prefer my full purpose computers but the Chromebooks make for nice couch computers.
My elderly relatives all love the Chromebooks I bought for them. Everything just works, usually. Updates are installed quietly in the background. When you update the OS, you only have to reboot to make it work. Unlike Windows which takes over your computer for part of the process.
I get a tech support call from my family about once a year. Which is a huge reduction from when they were using Windows or Macs.
If you think Android apps would be confusing for your person, you can disable the Google Play store. But it does add a nice dimension. I set up my MiL’s Chromebook with the Kindle and Netflix apps, which made her love her machine even more.
I also have a relatively recent iPad Pro. I’d actually recommend the Chromebook over the iPad for a few reasons. The biggest reason is desktop style multitasking. On the Chromebook, when you open a new tab, it will generally stay loaded. Just like on a Windows or Mac or Linux machine. That’s good for stuff you want to keep running, like chat windows or an autorefreshing news page. The iPad works like iPhones do: pages that haven’t been used for a while get unloaded. When you return to an unloaded tab, the page reloads. If you were doing something on that page, like writing a comment, there’s a chance it won’t be there on the reload. And it’s unpredictable when a page will unload from memory.
And since it’s running the full desktop version of Chrome, you can use extensions. Ad blockers, privacy guards, etc., can all be run on Chromebooks. iPads do have ad-blockers for Safari, but you’ll be missing the other extensions.
The simplicity of the Chromebook is also better for some old folks than iPads. If you choose to disable the Play store, then the only real application on the Chromebook is the web browser. My mom would sometimes get lost on her iPhone, but she always knew where she was on her Chromebook. It’s a helpful thing.
The one thing you have to watch out for on Chromebooks is the OS update window. Each Chromebook gets a period of guaranteed updates for about 6.5 years to 8 years. The countdown starts when the model is first released. Not when you buy it. The length depends on model. After that window is up, there’s no more updates.
The reason I mention this is you’ll frequently see certain models on sale at great prices. But those models may only have a year or two left on updates. Be sure and double check if you’re buying an older model.
The one recommendation I’d make about your model choices is to pick one with 8GB of memory. You can probably get away with a 4GB model for now, but 8 gigs will make your choice more-or-less future proof. Web pages keep bloating with no end in sight. Since you’re buying it for someone who is only going to use it for the web, you don’t have to worry about the internal storage. Even the 16 gig storage is fine for that.
Also, take a look at the screen type you’ll find in your Chromebook. You’ll want to get an IPS screen. Fortunately, that’s the screen in a majority of Chromebooks. IPS gives you better viewing angles and better color. Which will make the device that much more comfortable for whoever is using it.
Hope this helps.
Chetan Murthy
@TaMara (HFG): You could get it, set it up, seal it in a trashbag, seal that in a trashbag, wait 2wk, then drive it over, remove outer bag, place in mailbox (or whatever). They can get it, remove second trashbag, and be confirmed that it’s safe for them. Obvs. 2wk isn’t needed — just N days (but I’m not looking up that number just now).
MisterForkbeard
I bought a 15″ flipping Chromebook for my kids and their ‘school at home’ time during COVID. The kind of chromebook that looks like a laptop but can be folded over so it functions as a tablet. We spent ~$500 on it but you can get a decent chromebook for $200-300
Generally, it’s been really good and simple to use. If they have a Google account it should be pretty seamless. Facebook works reasonably well on it and can be used for video calls without issue. And Google offers a number of free programs at any given time through the “Special Perks” page for anyone with a chromebook. https://www.google.com/chromebook/perks/
Right now, most of the perks are games (Doom 1, Doom 2, Stardew Valley, others) but also includes some fitness apps and a note taking app.
EDIT: This is the Chromebook we picked up: https://www.amazon.com/Chromebook-Touchscreen-Processor-All-Metal-C434TA-DSM4T/dp/B07Q2RB6BY
MisterForkbeard
@tomtofa: Yeah. You’ll want a better-than-bottom-rung chromebook, but they do just fine for it.
Brachiator
There are a number of new Chromebooks being released by Lenovo that appear to be excellent values.
For example, the Lenovo Chromebook Flex 5 is a 13 inch Chromebook for $409. This is brand new, has the most recent hardware and is guaranteed to receive updates through 2028.
If the size is an acceptable compromise, I would recommend this over any other tablet out there for basic use because of the price and because it has the latest processor and appears to be well made.
There is a new inexpensive 11.6 inch model, but that may be too small.
I have not seen that new 15 inch models have been released yet.
There is also a Lenovo Duet 10 inch tablet for $300, but this seems only to be available at Best But, but is usually shown as sold out. This has been getting good reviews.
Amazon is releasing brand new 8 inch tablets at bargain prices. These are customized Android tablets.
I recommend the sites the Wirecutter and Chromebook Unboxed for good, clear information on Chromebooks.
When you say elderly relative I assume they will not be playing video games, so did not consider more powerful Chromebooks. I focus on value, a good screen and good keyboard.
Shakti
As long as there is ZERO chance they’d use any software outside of the Google Play store on their computer, and they have no privacy concerns whatsoever, I’d use the Chromebook. Dirt cheap, often have solid state drives.
I’d echo the other suggestions about the mouse. [TBH, I’d use a wired one b/c having the blue tooth drop out or the battery die is annoying.] I don’t know your folks computer savvy so you might want to walk them through the set up of the gmail address they use to sign into the computer so they know how to recover the account.
If it’s a 2-in-one you can flip it and stand it up to watch movies
TaMara (HFG)
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Thanks for asking. Normal, of course is relative.
My course when like this: 12 days of miserable symptoms, 1 week of bouncing between feeling like I was getting better and not. And then three weeks of mind-numbing fatigue. This week I felt great. yesterday I moved about 100 lbs of rocks and only felt like anyone would have after that. ?
Ivan X
@tomtofa: True, but you can also buy a 10.2″ iPad for $329 — and on sale right now at Best Buy and Amazon for $249. I can’t really think of much it won’t do that the more expensive iPads will. It’s probably one of Apple’s single best values among all their products.
Juice Box
I love my iPad, but I use(d) an Acer Chromebook at my volunteer job and it definitely seems like a better choice for an elderly relative. They’re more limited, but that’s a good thing for the non-tech inclined. They boot-up and shutdown fast which is nice and the automatic updates work well.
My parents (84 and 90) use iPads and desktops, but they’ve had them for a long time and my mom likes to fiddle around with computers, plus when she gets stuck, she’s got children to consult. I organized my dad’s iPad and hid all of the extra apps in folders so that he only sees the five (Safari, Kindle, Sonos controller, mail, and calculator) that he uses on the front page. That is less confusing for him.
Brachiator
@TaMara (HFG):
I have not noticed HDMI ports on most mid range Chromebooks. But they tend to have USB C ports and you can use a hub and easily connect an external monitor.
TaMara (HFG)
@Brachiator: Thank you. That eases my mind.
PaulWartenberg
I am wary of Solid State HDs because the amount of memory space isn’t great given the cost. My parents have a Solid HD on their notebook and it’s the cheapest, smallest memory one that barely has room for the OS and two different software apps. It’s terrible. They live with it because all they really do is email and play solitaire on it.
I haven’t heard good things about Chromebooks. If you want to do most of your work through Google Apps then it’s not a problem. But anything outside of that and you’ll be running into default conflicts and other headaches. Granted, most people I know are heavy computer users (hi, librarians) so they tend to go with high-powered laptops anywho.
danielx
Note: there is a shit ton of geek knowledge and goodness amongst the local jackal populace.
Burnspbesq
@jackmac:
i’ve found the zoom iOS app to be pretty good.
Anathema Device
@The Moar You Know: I’d second that, even without the case. I showed my husband (69) how to use a Mac, which he does with reasonable incompetences, but he took to the iPad immediately. Seen this happen with other elderly people too.
The latest iPad Pros (ouch, pricey) will take a mouse but mice are less intuitive than the touch screen, so unless you need one, don’t bother with the Pro. The ordinary iPad/iPad Air would be just fine, and compare well with a chromebook for price, I think.
Burnspbesq
@Anathema Device:
I love my Pro, but it’s overkill for most users.
numfar
I’ve got a Pixelbook and absolutely love it. The keyboard has a nice touch and the performance is very good.
Perfect for browsing the interwebz, reading jackal comments, and email.
Ann Marie
A friend of mine is 78, has serious memory issues, and is being targeted by scammers. Her daughter, who is very computer savvy, replaced my friend’s current computer with a Chromebook. The daughter thinks it is safer. I’m a Mac at home, PC at work person and have no familiarity myself with Chromebooks.
debbie
I have a 15-inch Chromebook (Acer). I got it for working from home (before I knew I’d probably be doing that forever) because I didn’t want the company anywhere near my precious MacBook Pro (8 years and still going strong). I work through Citrix on a VDI and things seem fine. I usually get a few bouts of “Connection Interrupted,” but I think it’s the crap VDI rather than the Chromebook. My eyes are pretty bad, but I’ve had no issues with the 15-inch screen.
One thing’s going to drive your relative nuts: There’s no Caps Lock key.
Steeplejack
I have a small (10") Chromebook (Asus C100P) that I got a couple of years ago. I like it a lot, although it’s not my main machine. I did use it as my primary device on my last housesitting trip to Las Vegas. Based on that, I would second Goku’s advice to supplement it with a wireless mouse. Easier to use than the touchpad or (in my opinion) poking at the touch screen.
One possibly counterintuitive thing to consider is whether you really want or need a 15" Chromebook. That’s really big. Maybe I’ve gotten conditioned to my small one, but I have found that the screen resolution is so good that it’s very readable. And of course you can zoom text and pages as needed, or even set the defaults to be larger in the browser. Something to consider, anyway.
Speaking of size, I have been thinking about getting a new Chromebook, and so far I have not had much luck finding “small” ones (< 13"). I could see going up an inch or two, but I really like the portability (and low cost) of the smaller size. Anybody got a suggestion?
Steeplejack
Omnes Omnibus alert! Scaramouche just now starting on TCM.
Steeplejack
@debbie:
There are several odd key combinations you have to remember on Chromebooks. You can get caps lock by pressing Alt+Search (the magnifying glass). Then press the shift key to turn it off.
Apologies if you already knew this. No intent to geeksplain.
debbie
@Steeplejack:
That’s one I didn’t know. Thanks!
Jinchi
My son has a chromebook for school, and as a PC user, I get a bit frustrated with it when I try to help him with tech problems. It’s got pretty limited in capability, and appears to be designed to be driven entirely by cloud based software. It really depends on what your relative will be using it for and what their personal level is. If it’s just web based, surfing, email etc., it might be fine and it’s pretty cheap.
Steeplejack
@The Moar You Know:
Which iPad case did you get? I have an older friend who is struggling with this now. She bought a keyboard/case but complains that it is “too tight” and hard to put on and take off. I suggested a stand and a separate keyboard instead, but she nixed that idea. Not sure exactly why. I thought the “on/off” thing was related to going between “computer mode” and “holding/browsing mode.”
Kent
Teacher here:
I have a cart in my classroom with 36 chromebooks on it that we used daily pre-quarantine. Both of my kids have school-issued chromebooks (from a different school district) and one of them has her own higher-end Samsung chromebook. So my life is Chromebooks even though I use an ACER Windows laptop as my main computer. Too much of my legacy materials are in windows format documents and I do a lot of .pdf management. Plus for grading you need a numbers keypad and I’m not aware of any chromebooks that have numbers keypads.
Just do it. They are so ridiculously cheap you can’t go wrong.
Steeplejack
@Chetan Murthy:
Thanks for the info on the HP X360. I see there is a model with an 11.6" screen. That might be one for me to consider in my search for a smaller Chromebook.
Ken_L
I’ve had a Chromebox for a few years on the veranda, connected to a full size keyboard and monitor. It works fine except for an infuriating habit of dropping the Bluetooth connections every few hours, requiring a reboot. Fortunately the reboot only takes a minute but it is annoying, so I tend to use a little Intel USB Windows stick plugged into the monitor instead. Apparently the Chrome OS is notorious for chronic Bluetooth issues.
Martin
@Steeplejack: I’m quite fond of Apple’s Smart Keyboard Cover. This 100wpm typist does around 70wpm on it. So it’s pretty good. On the upside, I have spilled an iced tea on the keyboard with no consequence and hauled it through the rain to meetings lots of time.
Durable, thin and light, no batteries to deal with. Very easy and practical. It’s not a full case, it covers the back, attached with magnets and folds over to cover the front. Leave space for a Pencil to attach. As with Apple, they found just the right amount of magnetic force that it never comes off when I don’t want it to and comes off without a problem when I do.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Martin:
Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll check it out.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack:
Are you going to watch movies or videos?
If so, you may want an IPS screen. Many 11.6 Chromebooks do not have an IPS screen. Something to watch out for.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack:
Lenovo has been releasing some very good moderately priced Chromebooks. Earlier I mentioned the Lenovo Chromebook Flex 5, on Amazon I think, for $409. It’s got a 13 inch screen, an i3 processor and 4GB RAM.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Brachiator:
Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. I stream stuff on my 10″ Chromebook and find the quality okay. It’s fine for watching stuff (mostly cable TV) while I’m working on the “real” computer. Any new Chromebook would undoubtedly be an improvement.
M. Bouffant
@Brachiator: I’d stay away from Lenovo. Bought an Ideacentre 340 last June, had to replace the hard drive by March.
The Moto ‘phone that Lenovo makes lasted me about a yr.
And what’s w/ Windows? Didn’t used to reset everything w/ every update.
Brachiator
@M. Bouffant:
I have a refurbished Lenovo Windows PC which has lasted for years. It’s a backup work horse. Maybe I got lucky.
Steeplejack
@Martin:
Fast typist here too. Do you get annoyed with having to reach up to poke the iPad’s screen vs. grabbing a mouse? As I said above, on my last trip to Las Vegas I left my notebook at home and just took my Chromebook. It has an okay keyboard, but the heel of my hand kept brushing the touchpad and throwing things off. So I bought a cheap keyboard and, what the hell, a mouse, and I found that much better for extended daily use. But for short sessions the Chromebook’s keyboard and touchpad are fine.
Chetan Murthy
@Steeplejack: It might depend on the size of the keyboard. This HP x360 14 has a big-enough keyboard that it’s actually quite comfortable to type, and I don’t brush the touchpad accidentally. Indeed, I brush the touchpad accidentally -much- more on my full-sized Lenovo laptop (with a trackpoint, that I use religiously when it’s available). I’ve become pretty used to this keyboard and the touchpad, and I am, again, a religious Trackpoint devotee — when I worked for a company that issued me a fancy-schmantzy Mac laptop, within a week I had turned it back in, requesting a Lenovo laptop with a Trackpoint. And here I am, using this touchpad.
Steeplejack
@Brachiator:
LOL. I’m typing right now on an ancient ThinkPad X130e (vintage 2012) that I am in the process of replacing with a ThinkPad T480. (Love the new one already but need to get Office and a few other things set up on it.)
@Brachiator:
Like you, I have had good luck with Lenovo, and I am very interested in their new Chromebooks.
Steeplejack
@Chetan Murthy:
Good point about the keyboard size. And I, too, love the TrackPoint. The keyboard on my new T480 is one of the main reasons I got it. (Although I use a gloriously clicky Das Keyboard at home.)
Ivan X
@Steeplejack: As of (very) recent versions of iPadOS, you can use a mouse with your iPad, though it does require app support that not all third party developers have readied yet. The Apple-provided apps work pretty well. Any Bluetooth mouse will do; wired mice (or wireless mice with USB receivers) can also be used via an adapter.
Chetan Murthy
@Steeplejack: Yeah, the Trackpoint is still what my fingers are genetically-engineered for. But for such a light machine, and so damn -cheap-, gotta say, I’m willing to trade the ol’ fingers in on the new model. I’ve been using Stinkpads continuously for 25yr, and literally only in the last 5mos have I seriously contemplated not getting a new one in 2021 when this current one’s warranty expires. Even a Macbook Pro Retina Edition didn’t convince me; this light-but-study HP x360 Flip, is doin’ the job.
P.S. I’m a -big- fan of the touchscreen, too. Just typed the above into the dialog-box pop-up, then touched the screen to pull down the box enough to see the “X”, touched it to close the box, came down here to the edit box at the bottom of the page (by scrolling down using the touch screen), adjusted the edit box contents by touching, and then finished typing this P.S. Touchscreens are great!
Ivan X
@PaulWartenberg: SSD’s do cost about 4x as much as HD’s for the space you get, but are like 10x faster and more reliable, and I cannot encourage them enough.
With that said, I’ve certainly seen, on the PC side of things, cheap machines that include very small SSD’s — 32 GB or 64 GB — and these should certainly be avoided. I’d consider 128GB to be a scraping minimum for everyday, primarily browser-based computing (because you want to leave a certain amount of free space to keep it performing well). 256 is more reasonable, and 512 is comfortable. 1 TB and up are if you anticipate high media storage (e.g. very large photo libraries, movie downloads, etc.)
I wouldn’t be wary of SSD’s as a whole though. Apart from price, they’re better than hard drives in every way I can think of. And though you could get an internal 1 TB HD for the price of a 256 GB SSD, many people still end up using only 100-200 GB on their computers, based on what I see with my clients, making an SSD a dramatically better choice for them, because it makes their computer much, much more responsive. (This is especially true with Macs.)
Steeplejack
@Ivan X:
Thanks for the information. I’ve been thinking of getting one of the 10" iPads that are on sale now, and that’s good to know about potential mouse support.
Ivan X
@Steeplejack: Glad to help. Apple has a very no-hassle 14 day return policy that all of their vendors honor, so I suppose you could try it out with minimal risk.
Martin
@Steeplejack: It depends on what I’m doing. Doing a lot of coding, I don’t often leave the keyboard, so I don’t normally deal with that, though there are definitely things on the iPad I like better because I can run completely or almost completely from keyboard.
And I’ve been trackpad only for a long-ass time, so I suspect I’d like the new Magic Keyboard quite a lot with the trackpad. It’s a bit thick and heavy, which takes away some of my interest, but I think the trackpad would turn it into pretty close to a laptop replacement with a few changes to my development environment.
Martin
@Ivan X: Yeah, SSDs are great. They are WAY more reliable than HDs, and you can get a really good 1TB SSD for $150.
What’s more, the way SSDs work in terms of accessing information is significantly different than for HDs, so some OSes and some software is being rewritten to optimize for SSDs over HDs making the performance gap even larger. So anyone considering a Mac – don’t get one of the handful of models with an HD – it’ll run terribly. They really should stop selling them.
NotMax
Not much of a fan of Chromebooks, so gonna stay on the outside in so far as that goes. Having said that, shall mention a few things to keep in mind.
1) Number and placement of ports. The former because, simply, it more provides flexibility when it comes to peripherals and suchlike. The latter because, depending on where it is mostly going to sit, one side or the other may be less convenient or attractive for cords to be laid out or seen.
2) As others have stated above, add a wired mouse.
3) If within budget, opt for a 3:2 aspect ratio display over a 16:9 display.
4) Take the extra time to peruse and drill down into reviews of models you’re interested in for comments positive, negative or meh about the keyboard. Comments about an uncomfortable or squishy or oddly designed (form over function) keyboard ought to be considered a dealbreaker.
Ivan X
@Martin: I just read this glowing review of the Logitech Combo Touch, another keyboard-trackpad combo that uses the Smart Connector, for a lot less money. Interestingly, it appears it’s available for the models Apple doesn’t provide the Magic Keyboard for.
I used the Magic Keyboard briefly, and it does make the iPad into something like a laptop, with, as you say, the concomitant thickness and weight. I’m such a macOS guy that if it’s gonna weigh three pounds either way, I’d rather just use my MacBook Pro and call it a day, but if one likes iPadOS, it’s a very solid add-on (so to speak)
And, yeah, Mojave and Catalina’s APFS file system is just unusable on HD’s and even Fusion drives. The fact that all the stock iMacs still come with one or the other makes me wonder if anyone at the company understands just how poor the performance is with them. I have to imagine that product line is late for an imminent revamp, but in the meantime, you really need to build-to-order those machines with an SSD. (For those of my clients who need it, I’ve bought them external SSD’s like a Samsung T5 and use that instead of the internal HD.)
Raven Onthill
A Chromebook is a browser in a box. Mostly, they just work. Do keep in mind that if more storage is needed someone has to pay rent to Google.
If impaired vision is a problem, a Chromebox + a large monitor is probably a good choice. (Reviews here: https://www.androidcentral.com/best-chromebox.)
NotMax
@Martin
Yup, SSDs are the bee’s pajamas.
Will add that lower-end models of laptops or Chromebooks might include eMMC drives rather than SSD. Suggest shunning those.
Chetan Murthy
@Raven Onthill: Many Chromebooks have microSD card slots. I bought a 128G microSD card and shoved it in. That seems to be enough storage for quite a while. By the time I get a new Chromebook in a few years, the “cheap price point microSD card” will be 2-4x bigger, and I’ll get that. Not as fast as an SSD, but then, I only use it for media.
GrannyMC
I’m wary of recommending tablet devices (iPads, Fire, etc) for the elderly unless they want something bigger than a smart phone to carry around outside the house. Tablets have to be held, and this is a recipe for dropping them, as well as tired or sore arms and hands. A laptop or Chromebook can be put on a table, desk, or lap* where it is less likely to become an expensive repair, and you can more easily use a mouse with it. Yes, you can get desk stands and keyboard and mice for tablets, but at that point you might as well get a Chromebook, given the price of a decent tablet + a keyboard and mouse set that won’t break in six months. Also, you can get a bigger display.
(*If it is going to be used on an actual lap, I strongly recommend getting a laptop lap desk to put it on, preferably one with a fan. Everything runs hot these days, and the elderly are more susceptible to burns.)
Chetan Murthy
@NotMax: This is very true. OTOH, to get a Chromebook with a real SSD (not eMMC) you have to pay a lot more $$. Not sure at what point it’s not worth it, esp. given that these eMMCs seem fast enough for most uses. I mean, I do lots of builds in the Linux container on my Chromebook, and it doesn’t seem like storage speed is the holdup.
GrannyMC
@Brachiator: The assumption that us bluehairs won’t play games is more than a little outdated. Our reflexes might be a bit slow for Overwatch, but there are tons of casual games on Google Play that are suitable for us old farts. Very few of these require a high-end CPU or GPU, so your comment on power still stands.
Brachiator
@GrannyMC:
I was doing some shorthand, but you are right. I have been looking for a laptop for a couple of retired friends, and reading reviews. And my biggest thing is to ask what a person will be doing with a device, and to avoid assumptions. And I try not to offer advice based on how I use a device.
If I could take a moment to rant.
I actually sent an email to a reviewer recently saying that I thought that a review of a Chromebook that assumed that a person would only be using it to check emails and do light web browsing was just wrong. Also, the reviewer never really mentioned the keyboard, assuming that everyone wanted to use touchscreen, and also rejected some Chromebook models because they were not powerful enough to run Linux.
I don’t know many regular folk who care about Linux, and who have never and will never do anything remotely having to do with Linux. Otherwise, they are already computer savvy and don’t need advice.
But I know a number of folks who have wanted a device that they could use for Zoom or other types of video conferencing, because of recent events. And they want to watch videos and to stream movies. Maybe they will read books or listen to audio books. And I see tons of people of all ages doing at least light gaming on a smartphone or tablet, so I probably should have said something about that.
Anyway, I appreciate the correction.
ETA: I was also thinking about a keyboard device vs a tablet, and issues of heat, etc. I don’t recommend a tablet to some people because, even if they can get a separate keyboard and a stand for the tablet, they do not want to go through the extra hassle, especially if they are going to take the device to another room. A laptop may be more practical.
Ruckus
@Martin:
Just replaced my no longer young iMac with one with SSD. it is noticeably faster. Of course it also has a much later/faster processor a much nicer graphics card with 4x the memory of the old one. But there really isn’t anything wrong with the hard drives on macs, other than they run a bit hotter, and a bit slower. And my old computer had a 2T drive with 128g memory interface. Anyone want a used 27in iMac that works perfectly fine unless you have to have the latest thing? I’ve owned Unix boxes, early Apple, PCs out the wazoo – both MS and Lynx and once again Apples. I think we are about as far advanced as is reasonably for a while, all the macs are now 64 bit, I imagine so are all PCs these days. The next step is faster chips, memory and 128 bit computing. And that’s a pretty big step.
Martin
@Ruckus: GPUs are going through some discrete technology steps, but that’s really only interesting to a certain class of gamer.
Minecraft with and without ray tracing.
VR and AR are also technology steps that really change the game up a lot as well.
But for normal folks, once you hit displays with pixel densities beyond what people can see, and reliable high speed bandwidth, you can hang out in that space for a long time.
I will say, having biometrics on my laptop is a real QOL and security improvement, though.
Martin
@Ivan X: I’ve found that there are some things that work MUCH better on the iPad than on the Mac. Zoom, for instance. So for me, I rarely aren’t using both simultaneously – Zooming a meeting on the iPad while working on the laptop is more or less my daily routine. And when not Zooming, I have can have MSNBC or whatever on the iPad which is a lot harder than on the Mac. And I can use the iPad as a 2nd screen, which I occasionally do as well.
Most developers work with 2 screens (code + documentation or testing, etc.) so I do it with iPad + laptop.
NotMax
@Martin
While a luxury more than a necessity (I’m hardly what could be called a power user and retired, so no business use), it’s amazing how much more enjoyable and adaptable the computer experience is since I added a second monitor for the PC.
Steeplejack (phone)
@NotMax:
So how do you allocate your screen real estate?
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Not 100% of the time but close enough – two 27″ monitors, one for having Firefox open for browsing, the other for everything/anything else.
And they’re not sitting at the same height, so attain some eye exercise and change of focus as a small bonus.
Steeplejack (phone)
@NotMax:
Okay, thanks. Maybe someday I’ll give it a try.
Elma
@Ronno2018: Thank you for that very useful tip! It is right up there with Shift/Delete for clearing away the spam.
xjmuellerlurks
I’ve used Chromebooks almost exclusively for the past three years. Before that I had one, but also used PCs and Macs for work. If all you use is a browser, there’s nothing better. They are reasonably priced – under 400 for a very good one. I used cheaper ($200) “reconditioned” HP brand chrombooks before I recently bought my current one, which is a Asus c434 with bells and whistles (I spent way too much, but it should last for several years). A 14″ should be fine for a senior wearing glasses – I am one and that’s what I use. Certainly don’t go smaller. They weigh anywhere from 3 to 5 pounds. The chromebook is very simple – open it and it turns on. No long boot cycles, no long update cycles, very little fear of viruses and malware. It’s all browser based. It is drop dead simple to use. Open the CB, click on the browser and you’re off to the races. Battery life is very good (6-9 hours) and has remained so over the lives of my devices. A full charge takes only a couple of hours at most.
Typing on a Chromebook can be a challenge to new users. Not caps lock key and no delete key. There are keyboard tricks for these, but no specific keys. Cut and paste, bolding, etc can be had by using the PC key combos of CTRL+C, V, B etc. Make a cheat sheet on a post-it note, put it next to the touch-pad, and you’re good to go. The touch pad may be a slight challenge if the person hasn’t used one before, but it’s not hard to learn.
You need a google account to log into the device – free and comes with a gmail box. There are MS Office compatible apps if needed – I use the word and excel clones regularly. They’re basic, but get the job done. I’m not a writer or an accountant, so my needs aren’t great. You can buy apps from the Google store if there’s something in particular you need – you won’t have robust apps and can’t load things like TurboTax (I still use my daughter’s PC for that – I don’t like my tax info on-line). If you use the browser based versions, there’d no problem. Your calendar and contacts are available on both the chromebook and your android phone, if that’s what you use. You get 20GB (?) of Google Drive cloud storage – which is where I keep music files. Most cheap CBs come with only 4GB of RAM and 32 GB of drive space, which is small by current standards. More is always better in this regard. Pictures or music would have to go to the cloud or an external device if you have a lot of them. Most CBs have SD card ports and USB slots. Sme have HDMI ports which allow connections to a TV, I am not a gamer, but android compatible games are available. I am able to use zoom, but it doesn’t have the background changing feature in my version.
I’ve had problems printing from my devices, but finally figured it out – I use IP printing, not the “cloud printing” thing. I think the high winds in the upper atmosphere were blowing my cloud print requests astray.
John in Park Hill
@cs:
This is the best reply I see on this thread. I have used Chromebooks heavily for the last 5 years and currently wrangle several-hundred for one of Denver’s schools.
My 85yo dad keeps calling for help (from 1500 miles away) with the Windows laptop I got him two years ago. I’m about three more calls or one year from throwing it out and getting him a Chromebook.
Almost everything he does is on the web, so there’s no need for the bloat and overhead that comes with Windows machines. I will have to get him used to Google Docs instead of Word, but that will likely be the only major change he will have to make.
Everything that cs said is good advice. Just also remember that Chromebooks are fantastic computers as long as they have a decent internet connection. If that goes down or there’s travel to somewhere without, they’re near useless.
lee
Sorry I’m late to the thread. I just want to add this bit of information.
One thing to keep in mind with a Chromebook is that they have an expiration date on them.
After that Google will no longer update you with the latest software or virus protection.
So when you purchase check to make sure you are getting one that won’t expire is short order.
Dan
Late to the party, but Acer, 15″. I bought a used one on Amazon for $149 last year and it’s perfect. I have an 11″ Acer that I bought in 2013 that still works perfectly, but I wanted the bigger screen.
Wyatt Derp
FWIW, went on Consumer Reports for you.
Top Chromebooks:
Google Pixelbook
Asus Chromebook Flip
HP Chromebook (Model 15 is about 50% cost vs. these other models)
Samsung Galaxy Chromebook
TaMara (HFG)
@GrannyMC: I ? you just a bit. Thanks for the perspective.
TaMara (HFG)
@xjmuellerlurks: This is a great response. If you’re around, could you explain more about the printing? This seems to be important for this person, so I’d like to be clear on it.
TaMara (HFG)
Alright, what I’ve learned from all of you is I need to stop by the store and put my hands on the keyboard to make sure it’s not too awkward and find out about printing.
Otherwise, it sounds exactly what is needed in this situation and a large monitor can be added if needed.
Y’all rock. ???
Ruckus
@Martin:
Have to say that I pretty much do agree with you, which is why I up graded.
I’m a geezer, which is the target market TaMara was shopping for. Except I have decades of computing experience that starts from before there were anything resembling home computing, from writing programs in Fortran to programing numerical control machines to machine 3D parts using a slide rule and trig for every move. So I’m not the normal geezer audience. Career before last I traveled with a laptop. A lot of traveling. I like a bigger screen, it’s easier for old, worn out eyes. I like simplicity, because I’ve had to do a lot of thinking/planning in the past just to get through most days.
Whatever computing product you get, it has to be simple. I’ve done complex, I like to do a lot less of that – and I’d bet that a lot of folks who haven’t done that complex stuff don’t want to learn it. If they are starting out computing a Chromebook seems like the obvious answer. How about neck issues? Is the computer comfortable to be used in their normal seating and seating position? Because if it isn’t it won’t be used, unless it really, really, really solves a problem. Can they charge it where and when they use it? IOW does it plug in unobtrusively? I got a much longer cable for my phone for that reason, which also charges my keyboard and trackpad. Which raises another issue, mouse or trackpad or computer alone? I sit on a couch so for me a mouse is not really useable, so trackpad. In today’s world wireless mouse or trackpad – absolutely. It opens up the possibilities of use that you may not think of, especially if you aren’t a geezer yourself. Have no idea if it’s a great place to buy from but google is a great place to shop for Chromebook. A good overview and an actual shopping experience of what’s available.
JaySinWA
Printing from Chromebooks can be dirt simple or next to impossible depending on the printer.
Of course Google is making things confusing by dropping support for Google Cloud Print on January 1, 2021 and moving to native printer support, so some older printers may not be supported (but might still function) at the end of the year.
See https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7225252?hl=en for most of your USB or wireless options. It has a link at the bottom to a list of supported printers, but it doesn’t look complete, and hopefully will be filled out with more native support printers.
If your printer supports CUPS Linux/Unix IP protocol, it will either be found by ChromeOS or it may work with a ChromeOS manual printer configuration setting. The printer settings options can be a little confusing, but it generally walks you through it as long as you choose the right path (printer with native support Vrs manual configuration)
My old Brother laser printer doesn’t have “cloud ready” or true CUPS Linux support, so I need a print server running on some device to print to it for wireless printing from a Chromebook, the printer has a hardwired LAN connection and the wireless router makes it available to wireless devices that support it, but Chromebook does not. I have never tried usb printing to it (too many devices and I don’t want to rely on one as a server for all of them). I use Papercut for now on a Windows based server (they have other platform support)
A couple of years ago I set up my sister’s HP with an HP provided wireless workaround that works for Chromebooks since it didn’t have a built in cloud interface. It seemed to work fine, but I had to dig a bit to find the right configuration.
In the end you may just have to try it with the specific printer.
xjmuellerlurks
@TaMara (HFG): In the old days, you plugged directly into a printer. Then, with networks, you could print to a network printer. Then, for home users, you could put a printer on your wi-fi network and print to it. Nowadays, for home wi-fi networks, you can usually just plug a printer in and attach it to (log it into) your wi-fi network. Then your PC, iPad or Mac will find it. This is what i’m referring to as wi-fi or cloud printing (perhaps not entirely accurate but works for this explanation). This hasn’t worked so well with my Chromebooks. So, when I set up my printing on the CB, I chose the printer model then I specified the IP printing rather than wi-fi or cloud printing. You enter the IP address of the printer on the Chromebook printer setup screen and the CB knows where to print. You can get the IP address of the printer by running a status page – almost all printers have a this basic report that can be printed directly from the printer control panel. It shows the status of the device – IP address MAC address, number of imprints, and other printer minutiae. Techs use this for basic troubleshooting. A typical home network IP address will be something like 192,168.1.xxx. All of your attached network devices will have a different .xxx number. Check your phone or computer (somewhere in setup) for your IP network address to see what I mean. BTW, IP means “internet protocol” if you didn’t know already.
Good luck with this. You got some good advice about costs and features. I think this is a wise choice for someone who would do better with a simple computer.
Another Scott
@GrannyMC: Excellent comment.
I’ve had several generations of tablets (going back to iPad v1), and they just don’t work for me. It’s a larger phone interface, with all of its limitations. Cut and paste is especially annoying.
Yes, they’re great for watching a movie in bed, or reading a book, and maybe responding to emails. But doing anything that involves cut-and-paste, or doing multiple things at once, they’re really bad IMnsHO. Sales people checking inventories at stores, and other similar specialized cases, yeah they’re great. As a laptop replacement, not so much.
The best thing about the Chromebook is the OS. You don’t have Windows, and that’s a great thing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Steeplejack
@John in Park Hill:
You can get Word on a Chromebook. I have used it hardly at all (as part of my Office 365 subscription), but it’s available.
Embra
@TaMara (HFG): Way upstream you mentioned the complication of setup and support in the time of Covid-19. You may already know of it, but I wanted to be sure that you were aware of the Chrome Remote Desktop extension in the Chrome Webstore. I’m not sure how comprehensive it would be in a Chromebook, but seems like it would cover settings and such. Maybe helpful in working out the printing thing.
JaySinWA
@JaySinWA:
@xjmuellerlurks:
If you are configuring a printer by IP address you need to make that address static, either through your router, or router and printer settings, depending on your router capabilities. Otherwise you may lose connection to the printer when the router is rebooted.
The router may allow you to pin a specific device to an IP address or not allocate some DHCP addresses to allow the printer to configure a static IP address and not use DHCP.
tam1MI
I have a Samsung Chromebook and my mom has the same model. I use mine for light stuff and as a travel computer. My mom uses hers to check emails, do some light web browsing (mostly checking Facebook), and games. She loves her Chromebook!
If your relative knows how to navigate an Android cell phone, using a Chromebook should be a snap, it’s basically the same thing except with a keyboard.
xjmuellerlurks
@JaySinWA: I know, but with standard leases being seven days, that’s fairly unlikely for the average home user. I’ve had devices off my network for more than seven days that retain the old DHCP IP lease when reconnected. Perhaps it depends on the router. I didnt want to make my comment more complicated than it was. Explaining how to assign a static ip on an unknown router seemed unnecessary in this case. But this is something to be aware of.
para
@Ronno2018:
(ctrl)(=) also zooms in.
TaMara (HFG)
@xjmuellerlurks: The IP explanation is perfect – I actually had to set up another device that way, so this is not above my (low) computer knowledge level, so thanks!
AJ
@Steeplejack: Inspired by seeing this thread this morning, I picked up a Pixelbook Go 13″ today. The cheapest model.
Going to try some Zoom calls on it tmrw and see if it works ok.
Good luck in your search!