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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Militant Vegan Militia

Militant Vegan Militia

by Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix|  June 2, 20208:36 am| 127 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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The Post has a good story about one white kid who was arrested for his role in the rioting in Pittsburgh:

Police identified Brian Jordan Bartels, 20, of Allison Park, Pa., as having “kicked off” the escalation in Pittsburgh, one of several examples of peaceful assemblies against police violence creating opportunities for pandemonium. […]

In footage that spread widely online, a man identified as Bartels, who faces charges of vandalism and rioting, wore a bandanna emblazoned with the symbol of the Animal Liberation Front, a leaderless international resistance movement that pushes for animal rights. In the footage, he raised his middle fingers to black protesters who begged him to stop. At Bartels’s home in a Pittsburgh suburb, officers found spray paint and firearms, according to an arrest warrant reviewed by The Washington Post.

[…] [A] friend, a 17-year-old who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she feared online harassment, said Bartels was militant about veganism but otherwise espouses views that do not fall neatly along ideological lines. Another teenager who moved in the city’s pop-punk scene with Bartels said Bartels loathed establishment forces, no matter their partisan makeup. But neither understood why Bartels would have smashed a police vehicle in broad daylight, as police accuse him of doing.

The story talks about a pattern seen in other cities (including my home town of Rochester) of white people with different agendas (right-wing, left-wing, whatever) using protests as an excuse to start chucking rocks and tagging.

Speaking of white, entitled idiots who want to leverage protests for their own ends, it was good to see that both the Post (expected) and the Times* (unexpected) front pages were clear that Trump had peaceful protesters tear gassed so he could have a photo op. Also, there was little discussion of his threat to call out the Army, but here’s my question on that: how, exactly, would that work? Do they just roll into states and cities that Trump thinks have a problem, no matter what the governor or mayors say? The answer is, simply, that it wouldn’t work, and Trump has no intention of calling out the Army — it was just something to say on the TeeVee, just like the bible was something to hold in a picture. (More on that from Jennifer Rubin.)

* The Times lead front-page headline “Trump threatens force; Police and Protesters are Injured” is still much worse than the Post’s “Protests intensify across US” because the story is the protesters, not Trump, who pretty much absented himself for a couple of days until his manhood was questioned, then lashed out. And, I’m guessing that far few police were injured than protesters. So it’s still a smelly Baquet of shit, as usual.

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Reader Interactions

127Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    June 2, 2020 at 8:39 am

    I have low expectations of the media, so I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the general reporting I’ve seen. Non-right-wing media, of course, and small sample size.

    it was just something to say on the TeeVee, just like the bible was something to hold in a picture.

    They’re producing content for right-wing media.

  2. 2.

    Wapiti

    June 2, 2020 at 8:44 am

    Extending General Shinseki’s estimates for Iraq (3-500,000 soldiers for 38 million population), they’d need up to 4 million military on that job.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2020 at 8:47 am

    militant about veganism

    “Give me mung beans or give me death!”

    //

  4. 4.

    Crashman06

    June 2, 2020 at 8:50 am

    The answer is, simply, that it wouldn’t work, and Trump has no intention of calling out the Army — it was just something to say on the TeeVee, just like the bible was something to hold in a picture. (More on that from Jennifer Rubin.)

    I really hope you’re right on this. It’s all I’ve been thinking about since last night.

  5. 5.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    June 2, 2020 at 8:52 am

    @Crashman06: Read that Rubin piece – the Insurrection Act requires that states invite the Army in to quell insurrection.  Maybe a super Trumper will do that (and even they might think twice), but most won’t.

  6. 6.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 8:53 am

    One senior aide was exuberantly telling friends the photograph of him holding a Bible in front of the church that had been attacked by vandals was an “iconic” moment for the president.
    But a senior White House official told Axios that when they saw the tear gas clearing the crowd for Trump to walk to the church with his entourage: “I’ve never been more ashamed. I’m really honestly disgusted. I’m sick to my stomach. And they’re all celebrating it. They’re very very proud of themselves.”

    So, so sick of these cowards. Quit or stop complaining. I love the “they”. Like he or she is some outraged observer.
    Trump laughs at them and he should. They’re worse than the active participants.
    These people aren’t downtrodden poultry plant workers. They can all get other powerful jobs. They stay because they have no integrity.

  7. 7.

    Chief Oshkosh

    June 2, 2020 at 8:56 am

    The privilege of these assholes. They’re always white, they’re usually (but not always) from middle-class or “better” backgrounds, they’ve had everything handed to them, and they’re “rebelling” because…? In reality, it’s because they are basically fuck-ups. I’ve got to deal with these destructive WATBs in my job. Most are such mopes that they never quite get it together enough to do much of anything. Sadly, situations like the righteous protests don’t require much effort to fuck with. Just show up and hit something (or someone).

  8. 8.

    Capri

    June 2, 2020 at 8:56 am

    Last night a bunch of inflammatory tweets were sent to my neighbors – saying that Antifata was coming for them. One said that white houses were being targeted and that home owners should get out their weapons to protect themselves.  Both were debunked immediately by the folks I know, but I fear not everyone will be so savvy.

    I does seem that everyone is wising up to the fact that it is right wing agitators that are trying to escalate peaceful protests.

  9. 9.

    Cheryl Rofer

    June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am

    Here’s a rundown of what Trump can and can’t do legally. I don’t exclude the possibility that he will ignore that.

  10. 10.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @Kay

    They’re very very proud of themselves.

    “People didn’t seem to grasp the point. Next time, let’s get hold of some napalm!”

    // // // //

  11. 11.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 9:01 am

    If we manage to get rid of Trump there will be another GOP President at some point. We won’t know if that person hires some of the Trump low lifes. Like all businesses it’s probably a club and they all hire from the same pool. We could get stuck with some of the Trump assholes on the public payroll again. I don’t want to pay any of them, ever again. They should start using their names when they weakly and cowardly whine to reporters. We need to know their names to protect against ever having any of them on the public payroll again.

  12. 12.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 2, 2020 at 9:02 am

    @Kay: 
    Preach it, Kay. They’re arguably worse than Stephen Miller or Bill Barr. Fucking craven poltroons.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    June 2, 2020 at 9:03 am

    @Kay: 

    It’s why I’m a yellow dog Dem. Our pool is better than their pool. The person at the top is almost irrelevant in comparison.

  14. 14.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 9:03 am

    @NotMax:

    They’re bragging that Trump waddled to a church, surrounded by his family members because he was too chickenshit to go out without using them as human shields. This is apparently an act of extraordinary bravery among conservative men.

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2020 at 9:05 am

    I heard a white kids not behaving badly story from the protests in Tampa last night. Groups of protesters were organizing in such a way that the white kids served as buffers between the larger crowd and the cops in expectation that the cops were less likely to bust white kids’ heads. Since my own white kid was among them, the plan made me a tad nervous, but thankfully, that particular protest ended peacefully.

  16. 16.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 9:05 am

    @NotMax:

    Why was the AG in shirt sleeves when directing the gassing and beating of citizens? Does he think that makes him look tough? Which sleazy operative came up with that?

  17. 17.

    Crashman06

    June 2, 2020 at 9:05 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: I did. I don’t know. I read elsewhere there might be some ways he can send them in without an invite. The chairman of the joint chiefs was out there during the photo op last night, in fatigues, so honestly, I don’t have a lot of confidence in the military leadership. If he orders them in somewhere, I think they follow the orders.

  18. 18.

    Woodrow/asim

    June 2, 2020 at 9:09 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    the Insurrection Act requires that states invite the Army in to quell insurrection.

    I just read the Act, via the Wikipedia Article on same. IANAL, yet I don’t agree the only way to invoke is via a State Request. Others have said POTUS has wide latitude in invoking it, and my reading says they are right.

    (EDIT: See also the article Cheryl posted, above)

    But. It also requires POTUS to order protestors to disperse, prior to calling in troops.

    That’s clearly a sticking point for someone like Trump. For a guy who can’t actually fire anyone, him putting out the equivalent of an EO that has actual ramifications is not the same as the kind of photo op horrorshow he put on, yesterday.

    Not saying he won’t be persuaded. Just saying I suspect that’s been why he’s avoiding using it, and will keep resisting it (note he didn’t even say he’d use it, yesterday.)

  19. 19.

    Baud

    June 2, 2020 at 9:10 am

    @Betty Cracker: Props to Senorita Cracker.

  20. 20.

    randy khan

    June 2, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @Kay:

    Quit or stop complaining.

    Exactly.

  21. 21.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:15 am

    What worries me about November is that Trump’s relationship to the presidency is like of an abusive man to an ex — he’ll destroy it before he sees it with someone else.

    — jelani cobb (@jelani9) June 2, 2020

  22. 22.

    MattF

    June 2, 2020 at 9:19 am

    We’re seeing a display of the full range of Trump’s personal and political pathologies, I’m not going to try to list them. I’ll note, though– it’s not merely a peculiar coincidence that so many of them are triggered by people with colored skins.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2020 at 9:22 am

    @Kay: The protesters spotted him! :)

    “Fuck Bill Barr” as even more federal officers file into Lafayette #DCprotest #blacklivesmatter pic.twitter.com/sK2qphNry1

    — Robyn Swirling (@RSwirling) June 1, 2020

  24. 24.

    O. Felix Culpa

    June 2, 2020 at 9:23 am

    @Kay:

    Which sleazy operative came up with that?

    Putin?

  25. 25.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:23 am

    For a moment it seemed like a section of a boisterous protest in Marion Square on Sunday had come to a halt. A crowd gathered around a single protester in a black T-shirt and bright red do-rag who knelt before a line of Charleston police.

    “I am not your enemy,” Givionne “Gee” Jordan Jr. told the officers. “All of you are my family.”

    Emotion caught his voice. Other protesters crouched over him, their hands on his shoulders as he spoke. “I love each and every one of you. I want to understand all of you. I want to. I would love to see the best side of everyone here.”

    Moments later, several officers pulled him to his feet and placed him in handcuffs.

    In a video of the episode, which has more than 7 million views on social media, protesters scream at police as they haul Jordan away.

    https://www.postandcourier.com/news/he-told-charleston-police-i-am-not-your-enemy-then-he-was-handcuffed/article_e7de4b0a-a43f-11ea-a019-1f9e6a20ea55.html

  26. 26.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @germy:

    If you substitute “US” for “presidency” in Cobb’s tweet, that’s probably more accurate. Because he sees the US as “mine,” and he’s the figurative husband/daddy/master.

  27. 27.

    Exregis

    June 2, 2020 at 9:27 am

    The Pulitzer Prize committee for photojournalism is going to have such a tough time this year with the very many excellent photos of cops attacking people. A good (?) quarter of cops IMO are racists or bullies or sociopaths or jonesing for violence or some combination of the above and the remaining 75% of so-called good cops are hardly good when they support the bad cops instead of the the people they pledge to protect.

  28. 28.

    Jinchi

    June 2, 2020 at 9:28 am

    @Kay: They’re bragging that Trump waddled to a church

    With everything going on, a small part of me is still annoyed that Trump seems incapable of simply holding a book without looking like he’s been handed an alien artifact. This is not difficult. every grade schooler has figured it out.

  29. 29.

    terraformer

    June 2, 2020 at 9:29 am

    @Crashman06: 

    Indeed, so has my lovely wife. We’ve both been edging closer to fleeing. I know that sounds a bit crazy, but this all reads like the proverbial frog boiling. And we know the history of those in Germany who didn’t act (or react to) when the Nazis rose to power.

    I had all our passport materials ready prior to the mid-terms, where it seemed like if the Dems didn’t get the House, we were lost. Now we feel that way again. (And of course, I haven’t moved on the passports – mine is current, by my wife and son’s are not – my fault completely. And now of course, the State Department his put all passport processing on hold, save for medical emergencies!)

    First they came for…

  30. 30.

    Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)

    June 2, 2020 at 9:31 am

    Re the NY Times, this headline sucked an awful lot.

    ETA: Clearly I have no idea how to embed a tweet.

    https://twitter.com/juliancastro/status/1267646288952205312?s=21

  31. 31.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:31 am

    The look of horror on the Australian news anchors’ faces when their reporter is attacked:

    Here’s how this scene was viewed live in Australia. One of America’s closest and most dependable allies. Rendered speechless. Just watch. pic.twitter.com/IjOzgs3WYo

    — Brett McGurk (@brett_mcgurk) June 2, 2020

  32. 32.

    MattF

    June 2, 2020 at 9:32 am

    @Jinchi: I had the same thought.

  33. 33.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:34 am

    General Milley, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, walking the streets of Washington DC right now. Briefly spoke to say he is observing the situation. pic.twitter.com/fHcYOTYMzN
    — Shabtai (@velvetart) June 2, 2020

  34. 34.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:34 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    Read that Rubin piece – the Insurrection Act requires that states invite the Army in to quell insurrection.  Maybe a super Trumper will do that (and even they might think twice), but most won’t.

    As others have already pointed out, it’s not as if he feels bound by any law. And it’s not as if any Rethug member of Congress will stand against him (outside of Romney, maybe).

    And anyway, if he really feels the need to give himself “cover” re: being asked by a governor, he’ll merely dictate a letter with the appropriate language — or Barr or Miller will do the dictation — and tell Kemp or DeSantis to sign it. And if they refuse to sign it, he’ll either threaten them, or he’ll have Miller/Barr forge Kemp’s/DeSantis’s signature.

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    June 2, 2020 at 9:37 am

    smelly Baquet.

    That sounds like a Quentin Tarantino character name, doesn’t it?  I am going to use it.

  36. 36.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @germy:

    Oh, but “the generals will refuse to obey illegal orders” (or whatever).

  37. 37.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:38 am

    Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer on Monday announced the firing of the city’s police chief after learning that two officers involved in the fatal shooting of a black business owner had not activated their body cameras. Fischer said both officers have been put on administrative leave.

    “This type of institutional failure will not be tolerated. Accordingly, I have relieved Steve Conrad of his duties as chief of Louisville Metro Police Department,” Fischer said in a news conference.

    The family of the victim identified him as David McAtee, who owned a barbecue near the shooting scene, CBS affiliate WLKY-TV reported. The mayor called McAtee a wonderful citizen, and said many knew him as “the BBQ man.”

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/louisville-police-chief-steve-conrad-fired-protest-shooting-death-david-mcatee/

  38. 38.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 2, 2020 at 9:39 am

    The vegetarian (they do drink milk and eat milk products) militia in charge of India right now has lynched people (mostly Muslim but not always) on mere suspicion of eating or transporting beef.

  39. 39.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:42 am

    BTW, the Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff is not a combatant commander. General Milley’s job is to provide advise to the president, not command troops. Thus, his battle fatigues outfit today is all the more strange. https://t.co/iqwAisUJAb
    — Michael McFaul (@McFaul) June 2, 2020

    Our Founders worried that the Presidents would use standing armies to oppress the citizens, as the British had done, and turn us unto a garrison state.They designed our laws to make it hard to use military force at home.— Rep. Elissa Slotkin (@RepSlotkin) June 2, 2020

  40. 40.

    Suzy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:43 am

    @Betty Cracker: What I find so hopeful is to see lots of white young people who have joined the protests this time. As for the civil rights movement, people outside the black community are getting engaged. Racism is a plague and americians have to unite to confront it.

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:45 am

    @germy:

    Thus, his battle fatigues outfit today is all the more strange.

    Has McFaul not been paying attention for the last four years? Everything is authoritarian cosplay, even if not everything authoritarian has yet been implemented.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 9:45 am

    @Jinchi:

    Why did the women take handbags? Is this an outing? They’re absolutely bizarre people. You just get no sense that there’s any workplace environment at all in there. They put the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff into his uniform? Like a costume?

    It isn’t just that they have no self respect and willingly debase themselves with these stunts daily, it’s that they debase the whole country.

  43. 43.

    artem1s

    June 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

    oh that bible.  That was Falwell’s doing sure as shit – televangicals hold their bibles like that to shield them from the forces of Satan.  they’ll have him thinking he’s bulletproof next.  The evangelical right has declared war on America.  BTW where the fuck was Dence yesterday?  Is he hiding in a bunker somewhere like Cheney after 9/11?  The end times are a coming and the mega preachers were out last Sunday praying to their Orange Plague God. By Sunday meeting that waddle is gonna be Moses leading the Israelites across the Red Sea – lead by the righteous tear gas army of the Lord – just watch.

    It’s time for cleaning up the nation’s police departments, getting god out of the military, and a major overhaul of charitable giving laws too.

  44. 44.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

    Allison Park is in the north, first or second tier suburbs of Pittsburgh.  These people just make me furious.  Co-opting someone’s peaceful protest so you can engage in destruction is detestable, but knowing that you are unlikely to bear the brunt of the backlash because you are white and wearing a mask makes you extra special loathsome.  Take pictures, unmask these people.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 9:49 am

    Andrew Beatty
    @AndrewBeatty
    · 5h
    #BREAKING @AFP (Sydney) Australia probing US police assault on its journalists: foreign minister

    Well, this is humiliating. Another great day “at work” for the Trump Administration. The country would be better off if they stopped showing up for work- all of them. They work for an hour, bad things happen.

  46. 46.

    germy

    June 2, 2020 at 9:50 am

    Woman Who Never Blinked at Hate Crimes on Mosques and Synagogues Now Deeply Offended About a Target

  47. 47.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:52 am

    @Kay:

    it’s that they debase the whole country.

    That’s all they know. At the risk of stretching an analogy way-too-far: just as with the 2016 campaign, the only way for the Rethugs to win was to debase Hillary. [Whose approval rating/positives were pretty damn high before Traitor Turtle started in with Benghaziii!!!] They may think that debasing the country is a winning tactic/strategy. Not sure how that would work in practice, however.

  48. 48.

    Chip Daniels

    June 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

    News item:

    27% unlikely to be vaccinated against the coronavirus; Republicans, conservatives especially
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/27-vaccinated-coronavirus-republicans-conservatives-poll/story?id=70962377

    There’s that number again.

  49. 49.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 9:53 am

    @SFAW: But what would the military actually do that the National Guard can’t?  Are they going to start dropping bombs on protesters?  Or maybe open up fire with rocket launchers?  He has no fucking clue what the military actually does.  And his idiot secretary of defense seems to be as stupid as Trump.  I mean, seriously, control the battle site or whatever he said — in Los Angeles or Chicago or New York City?  Yo, dude, how well did that work in Baghdad?  This is what is so demoralizing.  Yes, they are evil, but they are so fucking stupid and have been failing upward their whole lives.

  50. 50.

    Haroldo

    June 2, 2020 at 9:55 am

    @Kay:

    And yet,  minutes after Trump got back to the White House, he was buttering up and leaning on his willing Aussie lap dog, Prime Minister Scott Morrison, “inviting” him to the September G7 meeting:

    Minutes after Donald Trump returned from an impromptu stroll through a park cleared by tear gas to pose in front of a church brandishing a bible, the US President rang Scott Morrison.
    It was a 15-minute call in which Trump extended an invitation to attend the G7 summit in the United States in September.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-02/donald-trump-scott-morrison-australia-g7-invitation-accepted/12312466

  51. 51.

    MattF

    June 2, 2020 at 9:55 am

    @artem1s: A ‘get thee behind me’ gesture. Did Barr obey?

  52. 52.

    Fair Economist

    June 2, 2020 at 9:57 am

    […] [A] friend, a 17-year-old who spoke on the condition of anonymity because she feared online harassment, said Bartels was militant about veganism but otherwise espouses views that do not fall neatly along ideological lines.

    Based on my experience with my hyper-gullible son, he’s probably very vulnerable to crazy conspiracy theories and follows a bunch of them, often contradictory. Some of the agents behind the crazy conspiracy theories are particularly bad actors like the Russians and white supremacists, so one of the assorted conspiracy factions he follows was probably pushing for violence and he just followed along.

  53. 53.

    MattF

    June 2, 2020 at 10:00 am

    @Fair Economist: It’s also possible that Bartels is mentally ill. Various pathologies start to show up at that age.

  54. 54.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:04 am

    @Barbara:

    But what would the military actually do that the National Guard can’t?

    Fire on protesters using live ammo, maybe? [Although I guess the NG can also do that.] But it’s immaterial what one can do vs the other — the Coward-in-Chief wants to show the protesters who’s Boss, and if a few heads bodies eggs get broken along the way, well that’s just how it goes.

  55. 55.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2020 at 10:06 am

    @artem1s:

    The evangelical right has declared war on America.  BTW where the fuck was Dence yesterday?

    I’m reminded of how trump excluded Sean Spicer from a meeting with the pope even though, or maybe because, Spicer is a Catholic who was really looking forward to it. Out of spite or fear of being upstaged by a true believer, it wouldn’t surprise me if trump deliberately left Pence out of it

    @Kay:

    They put the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff into his uniform? Like a costume?

    How could Milley not know what was going on? He went out after that and talked about how the military was going to respect the rights of speech and assembly… Scary that he was so willing to play along.

  56. 56.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 2, 2020 at 10:07 am

    @germy: I am going to speculate as to what Milley or any other high ranking military leaders will do if Trump goes full metal dictator, but I will say that basing any speculation on what Milley was wearing is in cuckoo banana pants territory.  That uniform is what 99% of soldiers wear 99% of the time.

  57. 57.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:12 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That uniform is what 99% of soldiers wear 99% of the time.

    They wear “battle fatigues” (per the tweet) in non-combat situations? When his/their primary role(s) is as an administrator, not a field commander?

    ETA: Also, did you leave out “not,” as in “NOT going to speculate”?

  58. 58.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:14 am

    @Barbara: Call in Snake Plissken! If you are going to do apocalypse cosplay, you might as well do it all the way!

  59. 59.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:15 am

    @germy: @SFAW: His UOD (Uniform of the Day) is one of two things: full class A’s (the fancy dress uniform) or fatigues. It’s all the more strange that a civilian doesn’t understand basic military regulations/uniform standards.

    @SFAW: You know what I saw my senior officers (O-6 through O-8) wear 99% of the time? A flight uniform (the fancy fighter jock pajama set). You know when they wore their blues (class A’s in Army speak)? At dog and pony show time, or when they were had high level meetings/etc. For me, a military guy, it would’ve looked strange as fuck if he were out there in his full dress uniform.

  60. 60.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:17 am

    @Leto: I want one of the Steve Carell Space Force uniforms to wear around.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 10:17 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He went out after that and talked about how the military was going to respect the rights of speech and assembly

    The public isn’t supposed to have to rely on some Trumpster’s assurance of what they “will” respect or not respect. The RULE was the curfew started at 7. THAT’S the due process. It’s very nice that he is graciously allowing assembly but he violated the rule. They have a right to notice and a predictable process. That’s the guarantee. That’s what due process is. What is is NOT is hoping and wishing one person shows mercy. They’re not subject to his fucking whims or notions. I don’t know him. I’m not supposed to have to know him.

    He can’t violate their civil rights and then go out and blather about how he may or may not “respect” them in the future. They rely on the RULE, not him.

    The absolute lunacy of these Trump clowns nattering on about law and order when they gassed those people prior to the order taking effect is just the most perfect explanation for WHY these protests are happening. They don’t follow the rules!

  62. 62.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 2, 2020 at 10:19 am

    @SFAW: Yes, I left out a “not” in the first sentence.  And, yes, that’s what soldiers wear most of the time.

  63. 63.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @Leto:

    It’s all the more strange that a civilian doesn’t understand basic military regulations/uniform standards.

    Why would a civilian — one who has not been in the service — understand basic military regulations/uniform standards?

  64. 64.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Here’s why they violated the curfew rule. Because they wanted to get Trump and his employees on the evening news. They couldn’t wait until 7.

    The general knows that yet he happily went along with violating the rule and gassing those people. For Dear Leader. Why on EARTH would I trust this person? He has ZERO credibility.

  65. 65.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @Immanentize: OMG, Avalune and I were laughing so hard at that show! I can tell that they had some military people helping with that, which made it that much more funny.

  66. 66.

    Van Buren

    June 2, 2020 at 10:20 am

    @germy: That is infuriating and depressing.

  67. 67.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:21 am

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    And, yes, that’s what soldiers wear most of the time.

    OK, thanks to you (and Leto) for educating me.

  68. 68.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:23 am

    @Leto: I really enjoyed it.  Did you notice their camo is little moons all over on that blue field?  Such good detail.

  69. 69.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:23 am

    @SFAW:

    Everything is authoritarian cosplay, even if not everything authoritarian has yet been implemented.

    Idk, civilian, you seem to have an uninformed answer. I see it’s not limited to top 10,000 blogs.

  70. 70.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:24 am

    @Leto:

    For me, a military guy, it would’ve looked strange as fuck if he were out there in his full dress uniform.

    Given your (and Omnes’s) explanation(s), I understand. I had assumed that when you got to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, you would usually wear suit-like attire, not fatigues.

  71. 71.

    polyorchnid octopunch

    June 2, 2020 at 10:25 am

    I discovered a year or so ago that white supremacist vegans are actually a thing… and I mean really a thing. I came across it because they were ganging on an Innu throat singer named Tanya Tagaq for wearing seal fur.

    Serious assholes.

  72. 72.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Immanentize: Yeah, saw that; the fact that it’s basically all black, ala Dark Side of the Moon, is hilarious. The First Lady’s redesigns… hahahaha! The 18th century European formal dress, with cape!, was just /chef’skiss!

  73. 73.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Kay: This point about it not yet being curfew is being missed by the media.  Otherwise, I think they are doing a good job on “gassing peaceful protesters for foto op.”

  74. 74.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Leto:

    Yeah, fine, whatever. How many Ave Marias and Pater Nosters would you like me to do?

  75. 75.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:27 am

    @Leto: and plumes!

  76. 76.

    Nicole

    June 2, 2020 at 10:27 am

    In the midst of the intense anxiety and fear and depression the past weeks have put me into, I’m glad for a bit of amusement by today’s kerfuffle on Twitter- actor Lea Michelle tweeted out support for BLM, and several actors who worked with her were quick to point out that, in person, she didn’t practice what she’s preaching:

    https://toofab.com/2020/06/01/lea-michele-backlash-glee-co-stars-black-lives-matter/

    Good on them for calling out bad behavior.

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    June 2, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @Kay: Exactly! Thank you for putting that into words. It’s just mind-boggling, watching as the one of the most corrupt oafs who ever trod the earth styles himself the “President of Law and Order” and his stooges lie about respecting our rights as they take them away.

  78. 78.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @SFAW: two rosaries and three Acts of Contrition, please.

  79. 79.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:30 am

    @SFAW: I’m sure when he’s around the *president, or other cabinet members, he’s probably in full dress. But I’ll take the flip side of this too: if something were to go sideways while he was down there, he’d rather be in a functional uniform that can actually move, than the stiff ass formal straight jacket most of us hate to wear.

    As far as why he was down there, at all… idk, maybe he was down there reminding himself who he actually serves. There’s no better way to understand something than actually being there, in person/on the ground, using the good ole Mark 1 (your own eyeballs) to see wtf is going on. I’m not saying “the generals will save us!!!”, but I’m trying to hold out some glimmer of hope.

  80. 80.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 10:33 am

    @SFAW: Considering 1) I’m an atheist and 2) I don’t know Latin, Watch this drummer And you’re good to go :P

  81. 81.

    Roger Moore

    June 2, 2020 at 10:33 am

    @Barbara:

    But what would the military actually do that the National Guard can’t?

    Trump has made it clear he sees the solution as more violence, and the governors are wimping out.  He wants to send in the army because they will be taking his orders rather than the state governors’.

  82. 82.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 10:34 am

    @polyorchnid octopunch: My daughter is a vegan and not an extremist of any kind, but the concept of clean living or inner purity appeals to the proponents of a wide variety of “isms.”

  83. 83.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @Leto:

    Given your earlier explanation, I agree with your first paragraph; it makes a lot of sense.

    I remain skeptical of “the generals will save us” because the past three-plus years have shown that they (apparently) won’t. [Disclaimer: this is based only on what I see in public reports. Whether there has been behind-the-scenes reining in of Trump’s authoritarian impulses/desires, by the generals, I have no idea.]

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @Kay: Milley’s answer to a question about what he said to the NG, “What’s your message tonight to your men?”

    Juliette Kayyem @ juliettekayyem
    The 20th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen Milley, looks and sounds like a man who has just been used for a photo op and is trying to make us forget with this benign language of peaceful assembly. Embarrassing. He failed. He knows it.

    Gen Michael Hayden @GenMhayden · 40m
    I was appalled to see him in his battle dress. Milley (he’s a general?!?) should not have walked over to the church with Trump.

  85. 85.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 10:36 am

    @Roger Moore: Right.  Start shooting.  So we can have Kent State multiplied by 100.  Bloodthirsty asshole so long as the blood is on someone else’s hands and far, far away from his germ free corpulence.

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Leto: That is so good!  I may use that as my song for class tonight.  That or Hero by Michael Kiwanuka

    Amazing song, fabulous guitar work, super powerful video for this moment.

  87. 87.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He looked embarrassed in the photo that was everywhere, honestly.

    Those people are the worst to me though- it’s like they want to kowtow to Trump AND be respected.

    They can’t demand that from us. It’s not fair. Debase yourself, whatever, but don’t then come around looking for absolution. You made your bed. Live your shitty values, at least. This “I want it both ways” nonsense has to stop.

  88. 88.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    June 2, 2020 at 10:43 am

    @Kay: like you can’t be a little bit pregnant, you can’t be a little bit trumpist

    exceptions that prove the rule (so far): Chris Christie and Nikki Haley. They are, to borrow from the Lady Olenna, vicious but not stupid. I suspect Christie in particular knows that Jar-Vanka’s vindictiveness preserved his future career by pushing him out early

  89. 89.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 10:43 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It’s a kind of priviege. It’s the same as Ivanka and Jared demanding to be respected as good people while doing all these horrible things. No. You don’t get that. Be cartoon evil people, go crazy, but the trade off for that is you are not loved and respected. That’s the accountability.

  90. 90.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:44 am

    @Leto:

    Considering 1) I’m an atheist and 2) I don’t know Latin,

    Me, too, but I married into an Irish-Catholic family, and my mom was a (lapsed) Catholic. But to help with your “education”:

    Ave Maria: a prayer typically invoked by football quarterbacks. Not sure of its exact translation, but maybe it’s something “Jesus! Catch the damn darn ball!” ?

    Pater Noster: mumble mumble St Peter misspelled mumble something about a nose mumble

  91. 91.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:46 am

    @Immanentize:

    three Acts of Contrition, please.

    Does commenting here count as one? Or do I have to — gulp — go to Red State?

  92. 92.

    Roger Moore

    June 2, 2020 at 10:47 am

    @SFAW:

    They wear “battle fatigues” (per the tweet) in non-combat situations?

    Not to pile on but the name should be a clue.  Fatigues are called that because they’re a work uniform, i.e. what you’d wear when doing something fatiguing.  One form of military work is combat, but they wear the same style of uniform for any kind of physically taxing- or simply messy and dirty- work.

  93. 93.

    Kay

    June 2, 2020 at 10:48 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The only one I find interesting is Mitt Romney because it’s so rare to brush up against the Trump sleaze and come out better for it. You can count them on one hand. Nancy Pelosi is one. So is Joe Biden. And Obama, of course. But Mittens is a Republican and he didn’t just oppose Trump, he prospered doing so. That’s unusual.

  94. 94.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2020 at 10:48 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: It doesn’t, though. There are clauses allowing the federal government to act without state consent, if the situation is such that federal laws cannot be enforced or if the state is denying civil rights. Of course these cases don’t apply here, but Trump could probably find a way to construe them to apply if he felt like it.

  95. 95.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:49 am

    @SFAW: Commenting about Restate counts as one.

  96. 96.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 10:50 am

    @Matt McIrvin: You are forgetting the civil rights of property owners.  That is whose civil rights Trump will claim to protect when he sends in the tanks.

  97. 97.

    Emma from FL

    June 2, 2020 at 10:50 am

    @Kay: Thank you for saying much better than I ever could. I was taught from childhood that absolution from sin comes AFTER soul searching, taking your punishment, and making reparations as much as one could. None of this get out of jail free card.

  98. 98.

    NotMax

    June 2, 2020 at 10:52 am

    @SFAW

    Make a cross on your abdomen
    When in Rome do like a Roman

    :) (Should be no need to identify the reference here.)

  99. 99.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @NotMax:

    Funny you should bring him up. The local PBS station was doing their fund-raising thing last night, and it was interspersed with clips of his concert/performance in Copenhagen in 1967. We watched “Who’s Next?,” “Poisoning Pigeons in the Park,” and “My Hometown” (which I had never heard before) before I decided I wanted no more commercials.

  100. 100.

    Roger Moore

    June 2, 2020 at 10:57 am

    @Barbara:

    I actually think Trump is too chickenshit to give the order to shoot people.  At his core, he’s a bully, and he’s used to get what he wants through bluster and intimidation without actually needing to resort to force.  He’s hoping either that the simple threat of escalating violence will intimidate the protesters into giving up, or that his exhortations to engage in more violence will get someone else to issue an actual order without him needing to do so directly.

  101. 101.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 10:57 am

    @Immanentize:

    Commenting about Restate counts as one.

    That still would (theoretically) require me to go there, wouldn’t it?

  102. 102.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @Immanentize: Gunning down unarmed citizens under the authority used to desegregate the schools in Little Rock would certainly be on-brand for the modern Republican party.

  103. 103.

    Amir Khalid

    June 2, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @SFAW:

    I know an eensy bit of Latin. (Well, the odd word here and there.)  Ave Maria means Hail Mary, and Pater Noster means Our Father. I have no idea what the former is, as my sole source of knowledge about Catholicism is The Exorcist; but I’m guessing that the latter is the one also referred to as The Lord’s Prayer. (Our Father, who art in Heaven, etc.)

  104. 104.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 11:02 am

    @Roger Moore:

    My original attempt-at-a-point was that Milley’s current job is as an administrator, not a combat commander, so I didn’t understand why he would be wearing combat fatigues in a non-wartime/combat situation. Leto and Omnes explained why that “point” was ignorant.

  105. 105.

    Matt McIrvin

    June 2, 2020 at 11:04 am

    @Amir Khalid: There used to be a hideously dangerous type of elevator called a “paternoster” that was just open cars slowly circulating without stopping on an endless chain–so called because it resembled a huge rosary. Also maybe because prayer was advisable if you rode one.

  106. 106.

    Immanentize

    June 2, 2020 at 11:06 am

    @SFAW: Nah, just make something up.  You will probably be correct, if not accurate.

  107. 107.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    Ave Maria means Hail Mary, and Pater Noster means Our Father.

    Yes, I know. It was my little attempt at ein Spass. [You may already know this, but in real — a/k/a American — football, there’s something known as a “Hail Mary” pass. It’s typically thrown with the game (or half) about to end, and the likelihood of success is such that the QB (figuratively) says a “Hail Mary” when launching the football.]

    PS: I threw in the “real”/”American” part just as a mild ribbing, because of your love for non-‘Murican football.

  108. 108.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 11:09 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Michael Hayden, GWB’s last CIA director, defender of torture, and creator of a domestic telephone database (while he was director of the NSA) can shut the fuck up, forever.

     

    @SFAW: hahaha; regarding the generals, I don’t believe they’ll save us. The military is too “yes, sir”, plus Trumpov won’t listen to anyone except the deranged squirrel on his head.

  109. 109.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 11:12 am

    @Amir Khalid: I listen to a Roman history podcast called Emperors of Rome.  There is more than one and this one happens to be Australian.  They start every episode with a chipper “Ave!”  “Hail Mary” is how the Angel Gabriel is supposed to have greeted Mary before the immaculate conception.  That greeting became the basis for a prayer to Mary herself (“thou art blessed among women . . .”)  And I have never been a good Catholic, but found long ago that one of the traits associated with being a bad one was a curiosity to actually learn the underlying details in order to know whether one should try harder . . .

  110. 110.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 11:13 am

    @Leto:

    plus Trumpov won’t listen to anyone except the deranged squirrel on his head.

    Did he borrow it from Rand Paul?

    Oh, wait, that’s a weasel/ferret; my bad.

  111. 111.

    Bill Arnold

    June 2, 2020 at 11:17 am

    Perhaps more than opportunistic, in some places. This tweet captures what some people have noticed:

    Image text:
    WELL HOWDY!
    I’m just a mysterious pile o’ bricks
    I’ve been seen at many of
    the recent BLM protests
    sitting around areas of
    no construction or
    carefully removed from
    things like streets or
    sidewalks and placed in
    neat, easy-to-grab piles!

    pic.twitter.com/w5Uppd7xQT
    — Fahrenheit 161 (@BluJeanDebs) June 2, 2020

  112. 112.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 11:17 am

    @Barbara:

    “Hail Mary” is how the Angel Gabriel is supposed to have greeted Mary before the immaculate conception.

    Not to be confused with the “Immaculate Reception,” of course

  113. 113.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2020 at 11:26 am

    @Kay:

    They should start using their names when they weakly and cowardly whine to reporters. We need to know their names to protect against ever having any of them on the public payroll again.

    They should all be prosecuted for being accomplices in all the crimes Trump is committing every day. After all , they were there assisting, advising, consenting, every day, right?

    A felony conviction might help keep them out of future administration jerbs, even a right wing nut job, should one get elected again. Just being named in a news article, not so much.

  114. 114.

    Leto

    June 2, 2020 at 11:26 am

    I know this is probably dead thread, Biden thread is where it’s at now, but I wanted to post this. It’s from Chief Master Sgt Wright, top enlisted person for the AF. He’s been an amazing leader throughout his career, and he’s continuing in the footsteps of some of the best Chief’s the AF has ever had (some of the best progress the AF has made has been under POC Chiefs). The “generals” might not save us, but this Chief sure as fuck is trying:

    CMSAF Kaleth O. Wright

    18 hrs ·

    Who am I?

    I am a Black man who happens to be the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force.

    I am George Floyd…I am Philando Castile, I am Michael Brown, I am Alton Sterling, I am Tamir Rice.

    Just like most of the Black Airmen and so many others in our ranks…I am outraged at watching another Black man die on television before our very eyes. What happens all too often in this country to Black men who are subjected to police brutality that ends in death…could happen to me. As shocking as that may sound to some of you…I hope you realize that racism/discrimination/exclusion does not care much about position, titles or stature….so yes, it could happen to you, or one of your friends, or your Airmen, or your NCOIC, your Flight Chief, your Squadron Commander or even your Wing Commander. This, my friends, is my greatest fear, not that I will be killed by a white police officer (believe me my heart starts racing like most other Black men in America when I see those blue lights behind me)…but that I will wake up to a report that one of our Black Airmen has died at the hands of a white police officer.

    As I struggle with the Air Force’s own demons that include the racial disparities in military justice and discipline among our youngest Black male Airmen and the clear lack of diversity in our senior officer ranks…I can only look in the mirror for the solution. I, the CMSAF must do better in ensuring every Airmen in our ranks has a fair chance at becoming the best version of themselves. While this is a complicated issue…I, along with every other leader across the force, am responsible for making sure it becomes a reality.

    What have I been doing?

    Not enough…I have done my share of community service work, been in involved in mentor programs, voted in local, state and national elections, but I’ve come to the conclusion that whatever I have done in the past is just not enough. So, I spent the last week, “plotting, planning, strategizing, organizing and mobilizing” just as Killer Mike, the popular Atlanta rapper and activist encouraged us to do. Twenty-five of my closest friends (White, Black, Asian, enlisted, officer and civilian) and I have an ongoing dialogue where we began by acknowledging our right to be angry about what is happening.

    We eventually moved beyond the rage and began to think about what’s next? What could or should we be doing as a group and as individuals to stop this from happening in our communities across these United States? We don’t have all the answers, but we do have some of the most brilliant minds, many, who have first hand experience with this topic and we will continue working towards a solution. While we can’t change the world, we can change the communities we live in and more importantly, those where our Airmen strive to be seen, heard, and treated as human beings. I have also not done enough as your most senior enlisted leader…while we have made progress in many of the areas that impact our Airmen and families; I believe that we have not made much progress in this area of racial injustice and diversity among our ranks. This is why I’m working with General Goldfein, first and foremost to have a full and thorough independent review of our military justice system. We will look to uncover where the problem lies and how we can fix it. We are also working to improve the diversity of our force, especially within the senior ranks. I hope this message triggers responses and ideas from each of you on things we can do better.

    What should you be doing?

    Like me, acknowledge your right to be upset about what’s happening to our nation. But you must then find a way to move beyond the rage and do what you think is right for the country, for your community, for your sons, daughters, friends and colleagues…for every Black man in this country who could end up like George Floyd. Part of my group’s solution involves helping to bridge the communication and understanding gap between law enforcement and young Black men. You decide what works best for you, where you can have the most meaningful impact and most importantly, what you can stay committed to…we didn’t get here overnight so don’t expect things to change tomorrow…we are in this for the long haul. Vote, protest peacefully, reach out to your local and state officials, to your Air Force leadership and become active in your communities…we need all hands on deck. If you don’t do anything else, I encourage everyone to fight, not just for freedom, justice and equality, but to fight for understanding. You might think you know what it’s like to grow up, exist, survive and even thrive in this country as a Black person…but let me tell you, regardless of how many Black friends you have, or how Black your neighborhood was, or if your spouse or in-laws are Black…you don’t know.

    You don’t know the anxiety, the despair, the heartache, the fear, the rage and the disappointment that comes with living in this country, OUR country every single day. So, take the time to talk to someone – your brand new Airmen, your NCOIC or your Flight Commander – about their experiences so that you have a better understanding of who they are, where they come from and what drives them. Frankly, you owe this to every Airmen, but I’m asking you specifically to pay attention to the Black Airmen in your ranks during this trying time. Don’t misunderstand me, they don’t need, nor do they want any special treatment…but they deserve to be treated fairly and equally, both by our United States Air Force and these United States of America…this begins with you, and I am asking, no fighting, for your understanding.

    Like you, I don’t have all of the answers, but I am committed to seeing a better future for this nation. A future where Black men must no longer suffer needlessly at the hands of White police officers, and where Black Airmen have the same chance to succeed as their White counterparts. Trust me, I understand this is a difficult topic to talk about…

    Difficult…not impossible…

    Difficult…but necessary.

    Who am I…

    I am Kaleth. I am a Black Man who happens to be the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force and I am committed to making this better.

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    June 2, 2020 at 11:28 am

    @Kay: Romney’s republican constituents are more supportive of his independence than would be the case in other states. Mormons are the backbone of the Utah Republican party, and i think they retain an outsider’s perspective on Trump’s  divisiveness. They fled the rest of the US in the mid 19th century after their leader and many other Mormons were lynched. And alhough it took them well into the 20th century to reject racist doctrine that made people of color second class, they are now big into world wide missionary work. I think that makes them question Trump’s  nativist bigotry.                                                           And I bet they notice how  enthusiastically political preachers like Falwell and Graham boost trump after giving Romney such tepid, nominal support in 2012.

  116. 116.

    JPL

    June 2, 2020 at 11:29 am

    @SFAW: Nothing should be confused with Immaculate Conception.

  117. 117.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 11:35 am

    @Leto:

    Thanks for posting that.

  118. 118.

    Barbara

    June 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

    @SFAW: Heard it on the radio because the game was actually blacked out for local tv reception.  It’s hard to believe that was even a thing. A local tv station played a clip of the video footage as part of its station break for at least the next three months.

  119. 119.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2020 at 11:39 am

    @Barbara:

    the concept of clean living or inner purity appeals to the proponents of a wide variety of “isms.”

    That’s mostly why I’m a member of the Democratic party, the clean living and inner purity! I don’t feel the need for veganism, tho. Evolution made me an omnivore.

  120. 120.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2020 at 11:44 am

    @Roger Moore:

    One form of military work is combat, but they wear the same style of uniform for any kind of physically taxing- or simply messy and dirty- work.

    Generals do physicaly taxing, or messy, or dirty work?  I thot that’s why people strive to become a general, so someone else will have to clean the latrine, etc. etc.

  121. 121.

    catclub

    June 2, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    @Capri: saying that Antifata was coming for them.

     

    I can imagine folks  willing to join AntiFava.  Never liked garbanzos.

  122. 122.

    pacem appellant

    June 2, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    NYT delenda est.

    (At this point, I should change my nym to Cato the Elder or Marcus Porcius Cato)

  123. 123.

    geg6

    June 2, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @Barbara:

    I would consider Allison Park to be upper middle class.  Saw him on tv with his parents when he turned himself in.  Fucking punk.

  124. 124.

    schrodingers_cat

    June 2, 2020 at 1:13 pm

    @SFAW: He wore the fatigues to send a message and he was a willing participant in the wannabe dictator’s photo-op.

    BTW Mattis is still silent, so much for his nobility,

  125. 125.

    J R in WV

    June 2, 2020 at 2:07 pm

    @Barbara:

    They start every episode with a chipper “Ave!” “Hail Mary” is how the Angel Gabriel is supposed to have greeted Mary before the immaculate conception.

    Ave Maria, because of course Gabriel spoke Latin, right? Right?

    Wait, wait… I thought it was all in Old English, like King James spoke…??? now I are cornfused~!~

  126. 126.

    ballerat

    June 2, 2020 at 2:24 pm

    @Kay: All little Eichmanns with an even greater moral vacuum and an even less credible excuse. This is the look of banality of evil in the US.

  127. 127.

    SFAW

    June 2, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    @Barbara:

    Heard it on the radio because the game was actually blacked out for local tv reception.

    When my New York Jets won the Most Important Super Bowl Ever, my father booked us a hotel room in Hartford to watch the game, because we were within the 75-mile blackout zone, but Hartford was not.

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