• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We can agree to disagree, but i’m right.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Yes we did.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

I’m going back to the respite thread.

… makes me wish i had hoarded more linguine

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Four legs? good! two legs? we’re not so sure…

Trump is going to draw a dick on that dog with a sharpie, isn’t he?

The revolution will be supervised.

We survived Breitbartpocalypse!

It’s the corruption, stupid.

This is how realignments happen…

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Let there be snark.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Tick tock motherfuckers! Tick fucking tock!

Reality always wins in the end.

This blog is Obama’s Katrina.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Mobile Menu

  • Look Forward & Back
  • Balloon Juice 2021 Pet Calendar
  • Site Feedback
  • All 2020 Fundraising
  • I Voted!
  • Take Action: Things We Can Do
  • Team Claire, and Family
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • BJ PayPal Donations
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • Nature & Respite
  • Information As Power
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • On The Road
  • Garden Chats
  • Nature & Respite
  • Look Forward & Back
You are here: Home / Open Threads / On This Day Seventy Five Years Ago…

On This Day Seventy Five Years Ago…

by Tom Levenson|  May 8, 20207:21 pm| 83 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, War

Facebook0Tweet0Email0

VE day happened.

The formal closing of the European Theater of Operations came on May 8th, 1945, when German representatives, signed unconditional surrender documents for a second time, now in Berlin.

The same surrender had been completed the day before at Eisenhower’s headquarters in Reims–but the point had to be made to stick, as it hadn’t in November 1918.  The capitulation had to come at the heart of the German nation, Berlin, and it had to acknowledge the fact that Hitler and his Germany had been defeated not just by the Western Allies, but by Soviet Russia as well.

On This Day Seventy Five Years Ago...

The cease fire began early in the morning on May 7th, though it would take time to get the word out to all combatant units, including U boats.  It was then that the Supreme Commander, Allied Expeditionary Force sent his famous, elegantly laconic dispatch:

“The mission of this Allied force was fulfilled at 0241, local time, May 7.”

A few hours after Eisenhower’s cable went out, but before the news had spread to every corner of contested ground, Pfc Charley Havlat, a member of a reconnaissance platoon in the 803rd Tank Destroyer Battalion, set out on patrol.  Havlat, the son of two Czech immigrants to the United States, had landed with his battalion at Omaha Beach, and fought across northern Europe, through some of the most bitter and wretched battles of the war:  Aachen, the Huertgen Forest, and the Bulge.

On that last morning of the war, Havlat’s platoon was tasked with patrolling an inconsequential-seeming patch of ground in Czechoslovakia, a few miles over the border from Germany.  As the men advanced down a dirt road, a German unit ambushed them.  Havlat was killed almost immediately.  His platoon kept up the firefight, until their radio operator finally got word that the official cease fire had begun about nine minutes before the clash had begun. (My account comes from this source.)

Private first class Charley Havlat is believed to be the last American killed in the European war.

I do not want to politicize this moment of remembrance, but I will say this: what the Allied armed forces encountered on their last push into Germany was the first direct American (and British) experience of the utter depravity of German murder-industrial complex. Any person who tolerates in the slightest way, or worse, expresses sympathy to those who pay homage to that regime, representations of its symbols, evocations of its ambitions and aims–anyone who says of a confrontation with American Nazis that “there are good people on both sides” or “the protestors have a point”–is beneath contempt.  Any party that permits such a person to lead them is beyond redemption.

And with that, I plan to raise a glass this evening to a mission fulfilled.

Image: John Everett Millais, Victory, O Lord! 1871 (Not a huge Pre-Raphaelite fan usually, but sometimes they nail the sentiment, don’t you think?)

 

Facebook0Tweet0Email0
Previous Post: « Repub Stupidity Open Thread: There Is No Parodying These People
Next Post: Friday Night Open Thread: This Timeline Has Crossed the Weirdness Event Horizon »

Reader Interactions

83Comments

  1. 1.

    Cheryl Rofer

    May 8, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    Thanks, Tom.

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    Tom:  wrong link for your source.  Needs correcting.  Thank dog what you have up is nothing incendiary

    I visited Reims last year, toured the room where the May 7 surrender was signed.  Eisenhower’s war room, with the maps and lists of casualties still up.  Reims is more famous for champagne, but the visit to the  Museum of Surrender will stick with me, always.  Terrific little museum; very informative.  Lots of uniforms from all combatants on display.  Newspaper front pages.   Former schoolhouse.  Address is 12 rue Franklin Roosevelt.

    https://www.reims-tourism.com/musee-de-la-reddition/reims/pcu0000000000585

  3. 3.

    Immanentize

    May 8, 2020 at 7:36 pm

    there is a small genre of narratives, from Germany and Austria, of young men — fathers, brothers, friends — killed after May 7.

    Yours is not a story of German badness, it is a story of the evils of war. Give the dead a rest

  4. 4.

    Ohio Mom

    May 8, 2020 at 7:37 pm

    The son of two Eastern European immigrants — could have been my father or any of my uncles on either side of my family. All of them fought, all gone now.

  5. 5.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    And RIP Charley Havlat.  Every death was a loss, but that one hurts even more.

    Lot of deaths after the Civil War ended too, weren’t there?  News travels too slowly.

  6. 6.

    Immanentize

    May 8, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    Do we know the names of the most assuredly young men whose Charley’s unit killed?

    As Bill Barr says. “History is written by the winners.”

  7. 7.

    Spanky

    May 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    @Elizabelle: The Battle of New Orleans was fought after the treaty ending the War of 1812 was signed in Ghent.

  8. 8.

    rikyrah

    May 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    Back when we knew that the only good Nazi was a dead Nazi.

  9. 9.

    Mike in NC

    May 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    There’s a memorable scene in the movie “Battleground” where an Army chaplain, his feet wrapped in rags, tells a group of GIs during the Battle of the Bulge to never let anybody tell them they were suckers to fight in a war against fascism.

  10. 10.

    Sloane Ranger

    May 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    Well said, Tom! There are no two sides to this. Wasn’t it Bart Simpson who said something like there have only been 3 “good “wars, the American Civil War, the 2and WW and Star Wars?

    Had a Zoom party this afternoon with red, white and blue bunting, drinks and nibbles. At 3pm raised a glass to those who fought and died for freedom and justice.

  11. 11.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm

    I am re-reading the third book in Atkinson’s trilogy and at this point having been out of work for six months and nearly locked in for two, I can assure you I can give you an informative impromptu 45-minute lecture on the war from D-Day to Berlin. I’ve been practicing on my cat, Salad.

    Some enterprising author really needs to write about the logistics of WW2. Just think of the vast scale of production that had the US Navy camped off the coast of Okinawa being re-supplied by a fleet of dedicated ships carrying everything needed to keep a fleet afloat.

    At the same time, millions of Americans were on the European continent doggedly and determinedly pushing the Nazis out of Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands.

    The amount of material needed to keep the millions of personnel in uniform is staggering and well worth a serious look.

  12. 12.

    Another Scott

    May 8, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    @Spanky: Yeahbut, it’s not as stupid as it sounds.

    https://www.nps.gov/jela/chalmette-battlefield.htm is an interesting place.

    Just downriver from New Orleans in Chalmette is the site of the January 8, 1815, Battle of New Orleans: Chalmette Battlefield. Many people believe that this last great battle of the War of 1812 between the United States and Britain was unnecessary, since the treaty ending the war was signed in late 1814, but the war was not over. The resounding American victory at the Battle of New Orleans soon became a symbol of a new idea: American democracy triumphing over the old European ideas of aristocracy and entitlement. General Andrew Jackson’s hastily assembled army had won the day against a battle-hardened and numerically superior British force. Americans took great pride in the victory and for decades celebrated January 8 as a national holiday, just like the Fourth of July.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  13. 13.

    Tom Levenson

    May 8, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    @Elizabelle: Thanks. Fix’t.

  14. 14.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 7:48 pm

    The WaPost had an excellent story, with photographs.  Trigger warning:  one photo of emaciated concentration camp victims, in Austria.  And, FWIW, FDR had died on April 12, and Ernie Pyle on April 18.
    The devastation of World War II in Europe ended 75 years ago
    Victory over Nazi Germany had been won, but at a staggering cost in human lives
     

    The phone on Gen. Omar Bradley’s bedside table rang at 4:45 a.m. He sat up and turned on the light. He had a pistol by his pillow, and the windows in his quarters near Kassel, Germany, were covered by blackout curtains.

    Outside, under his command, more than 1 million American soldiers were fighting their way across northwestern Europe.

    Bradley’s boss, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, was on the line, calling from his office in Reims, France.

    “Brad,” Eisenhower said. “It’s all over.”

    Nazi Germany had surrendered at 2:41 a.m. The tragedy of World War II in Europe had ended.

    It was May 7, 1945, seventy-five years ago Thursday.

    Bradley rose, went to a map and wrote the notation “D+335” — 335 days since Allied soldiers had come ashore at Normandy on D-Day, historian Rick Atkinson wrote.

     

  15. 15.

    TomatoQueen

    May 8, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    Last night was rebroadcast of a little bit of Smithsonian or other perpetrator fluff called Elizabeth at War or Elizabeth the Warrior Girl or Lizzie What a Badass. In late winter and early spring 1945, our Princess Elizabeth took a Truck-Fixing for Princesses course and the world has not been the same since. Sweetly absurd, but then 75 years later our girl still comforts and sustains her people. Bless her and all who sail in her.

  16. 16.

    Duane

    May 8, 2020 at 7:52 pm

    @rikyrah: Never seemed necessary to outlaw the Nazi party before, but here we are.

  17. 17.

    Immanentize

    May 8, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @Spanky: We fired our guns and the British kept a comin’.

  18. 18.

    dmsilev

    May 8, 2020 at 7:53 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: As an undergrad, one term I took a polisci class on defense issues and for the term paper I ended up writing about one aspect of logistics in the Normandy campaign: how the US Army brought the full ports (Cherbourg in particular) back into service because the temporary ‘Mulberry’ installations couldn’t keep up. It was a massive job (the retreating Germans did a very thorough job sabotaging as much infrastructure as they could).
    On a smaller and more personal note, my grandfather was a tiny cog in that logistical machine; he drove a supply truck back and forth all through France and eventually into Germany.

  19. 19.

    debbie

    May 8, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    Spent the last 20 minutes trying to find a link to a feature on BBC Newshour this morning with a woman reading from her relative’s papers about VE Day. Great descriptions of her joy that the war and the bombing were over. Even the interviewer was a bit sniffly at the end.

  20. 20.

    Mohagan

    May 8, 2020 at 7:54 pm

    Great post.  Thank you, Tom.

  21. 21.

    NotMax

    May 8, 2020 at 7:55 pm

    Demands a contemporaneous photo.

    (Also a good excuse to watch A Royal Night Out, available on Prime.)

  22. 22.

    Ohio Mom

    May 8, 2020 at 7:57 pm

    I don’t think this post is about dead soldiers. It’s about the pivot from when the fighting stopped (as symbolically marked by Charley’s death) to when the horrors of the concentration and death camps were beginning to be fully exposed and documented.

    Its about taking the moment to remember what the Nazis did and who they were, and to be disgusted that this lesson is lost on some “very good people.”

  23. 23.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 8, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Slow down! I haven’t gotten there yet!

    Rick Atkinson was a former journalist with the Post. And editor as well I believe.

  24. 24.

    Gin & Tonic

    May 8, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    Maybe raise a glass also to honor those people in Eastern Europe for whom this was just the exchange of one tyranny for another. Stalin for Hitler wasn’t such a bargain.

  25. 25.

    zhena gogolia

    May 8, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Leon Ames.

  26. 26.

    rikyrah

    May 8, 2020 at 7:59 pm

     

     

    Not only is the video 😂😂😂
    The replies at the video almost gave me a stomach cramp from laughing too hard 😂😂🤣🤣
    https://youtu.be/AgAoZZHkNnY

  27. 27.

    Lamont Cranston

    May 8, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    Not a huge Pre-Raphaelite fan usually

    John William Waterhouse is the best painter of pretty women who ever lived.

  28. 28.

    Immanentize

    May 8, 2020 at 8:01 pm

    1. @Ohio Mom: That is a very generous read.  I accept your gloss.
  29. 29.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 8, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    @dmsilev:

    I think the way in which Atkinson works in the numbers regarding logistics is excellent and his descripions of what the Nazis did the Cherbourg and Antwerp really brought to life the damage.

    My maternal grandfather left Jersey in 1942 and came home in 1946. He was a Lt. Col in the Ghost Army.

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Good point.

    @rikyrah:

    Who made the motorcycle for the monkey? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    May 8, 2020 at 8:04 pm

    Most of us are familiar with the story about how — when the landings on Omaha Beach appeared to be faltering — Ike whipped out a notebook and composed a memorandum placing any and all blame for the failure to establish a beachhead squarely on himself. Today you can see it in the National Archives. Few weasel politicians alive today would do the same.

  31. 31.

    NotMax

    May 8, 2020 at 8:07 pm

    A snippet of history.

    According to Martin Gilbert’s book “Winston S. Churchill: Road to Victory, 1941–1945” (RosettaBooks, 2015), Gen. Alfred Jodl signed this Act of Military Surrender on behalf of the Nazi regime; Gen. Walter Bedell Smith represented S.H.A.E.F.; and Maj. Gen. Ivan Susloparov signed on behalf of the Soviet Union.

    At the time, Susloparov had not received approval from his superiors, but he ratified the agreement anyway. However, the Soviet authorities in Moscow did not accept the surrender document. Stalin responded angrily to the news of the surrender, asking (in reference to Susloparov): “Who the hell is this famous Russian general? He will be punished harshly,” according to journalist and historian Michael Dobbs’ book “Six Months in 1945: FDR, Stalin, Churchill, and Truman—From World War to Cold War” (Alfred A. Knopf, 2012).

    Stalin demanded changes to the original treaty and insisted that a second ceremony be held in Berlin, with the Soviet Union represented by its foremost commander, Marshal Georgy Zhukov. This second surrender ceremony took place on the night of May 8, 1945 in the Karlshorst district, Berlin. The event was chaired by Zhukov, with Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel representing German forces and Air Chief Marshal Arthur Tedder standing in for S.H.A.E.F. News of the surrender was announced in Moscow on May 9. Source

  32. 32.

    trollhattan

    May 8, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    Thanks for this.

    We did a German HS student exchange last year [thank goodness it was not this year] and when my kid was there, their visits included Dachau. It would seem the Germans are more committed to not repeating the egregious mistakes of the 20th century than some nations.

  33. 33.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 8, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    “Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops,” the 66-word, hand-written message began. “My decision to attack at this time and place was based on the best information available. The troops, the air, and the navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone.”

  34. 34.

    Emma from FL

    May 8, 2020 at 8:15 pm

    @TomatoQueen: Legend has it she can still strip a Jeep and put it back together again.

    Her Mum, though. Hitler called her the Most Dangerous Woman in Europe. When Buckingham Palace took a bomb hit, she reportedly said: “Thank God. Now we can look the East End in the face.” She propped up her man and her country.

  35. 35.

    joel hanes

    May 8, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    I hate Illinois Nazis.

    And Queens, NY Nazis

  36. 36.

    joel hanes

    May 8, 2020 at 8:18 pm

    @HumboldtBlue:

    Trump is incapable of understanding that kind of leadership, nor does he see any reason to emulate it.

  37. 37.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    May 8, 2020 at 8:21 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: There are several good books on logistics in War 2. This one https://history.army.mil/html/books/070/70-29/CMH_Pub_70-29.pdf is from the US Army WW2 history (one of the Green Books).  You can find other logistical studies from that source as well.

  38. 38.

    Sloane Ranger

    May 8, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Emma from FL:

    Legend has it she can still strip a Jeep and put it back together.

    She probably can’t do this today with the advent of computerised engines but, when I was growing up, there were newspaper stories a couple of times a year of unfortunate motorists breaking down near a Royal residence only to be saved by a passing female driver in a headscarf who would open their bonnet, fiddle around inside and get their engine working again. Said motorist would realise, at some point, that this obliging individual was the Queen.

    I thought her speech was great, short and to the point, linking what we went through during the war to now and saying we’ll get through it. And, these days, she alone of world leaders has the credibility to say it.

    Also, loved the rendition of “We’ll Meet Again ” at the end being sung by a mixture of professional singers and key workers of all kinds.

  39. 39.

    TS (the original)

    May 8, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    @Immanentize:

    I prefer the Churchill quote which Barr probably plagiarized

    History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it.

  40. 40.

    randy khan

    May 8, 2020 at 8:35 pm

    On our last trip in the Before Times (which actually was within the During Times, but we didn’t know yet), my wife, brother-in-law, and I went to Churchill’s War Rooms in London.  They have left the place more or less as it was on VE Day, which is possible because apparently everyone just walked away when the Germans surrendered.  And when I say they left it as it was, I mean the original maps are still on the walls, with the original pins (and pinholes, since the pins were moved around), and the furniture, decoration, and even rugs are still where they were 75 years ago.  They’ve put in plexiglass barriers to keep you from trampling things, but that’s about it.

  41. 41.

    Calouste

    May 8, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @TomatoQueen: They should have called it “Elizabeth: Warrior Princess”.

  42. 42.

    MagdaInBlack

    May 8, 2020 at 8:36 pm

    @rikyrah:

    😄😂😄😂

    Thank you ! 😂

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    May 8, 2020 at 8:40 pm

    @Duane:

    I believe that that Germany has outlawed the Nazi party and all it stood for.

    There is always a need to remind humans that being human does not make one reasonable, respectful or less hateful to or of other humans. If you are in any doubt, just look to our president, elected by less than half our voters, because they had been taught to hate a far, far more qualified woman.

    There is always a need to teach humans to be better humans. We don’t need shitforbrains to know that. We have our two political parties, one of whom is the party of hate and theft. True democracy? It’s been rare in my lifetime.

  44. 44.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    @Calouste:   Except now “warrior” means “exposed to virus, for the economy’s sake.”  Thanks, Trump.

    Save our Elizabeth!

  45. 45.

    Tom Levenson

    May 8, 2020 at 8:47 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: Richard Overy wrote about logistics quite effectively in his Why the Allies Won the War.”

  46. 46.

    PJ

    May 8, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Yeah, a big chunk of Europe had to wait 40 years for their freedom.  The USA and Britain could have done more to prevent Stalin from adding Central and Eastern Europe countries to his sphere of influence, for sure.  The Americans could have liberated all of Bohemia and Moravia, instead of stopping at Plzen,  for one, which would have made a difference in postwar Czechoslovakia.  But there was  still a war to win against Japan – I doubt anyone seriously thought in May that that would be over in August – and I doubt there was much will to starting a war with the Soviets (outside of Patton) after such a long and bloody war.   Would diplomatic insistence or economic pressure have caused Stalin to back down when his troops occupied all of Eastern Europe?  I wonder.

    One way to look at the 20th Century is as the long and bloody unwinding of European empires.  What started in 1914 ended, in a way, in 1989-1992, but, in a way, we are still grappling with it.  Who would have predicted in 1992 that the Republican Party would be actively working with a former KGB agent to cripple American democracy in 2020?  That, on the 75th Anniversary of VE Day, the Attorney General would order charges dismissed against a US general who admitted to lying to the FBI in furtherance of Russian espionage?

  47. 47.

    kindness

    May 8, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    My Dad & my Uncle both fought in WWII.  They were Republicans.  There is no way they would have stood for people waving Nazi flags at a Republican/conservative event.  Them’s would’ve been fightin’ words.  They died last century though and never imagined how their party would change.

  48. 48.

    raven

    May 8, 2020 at 8:57 pm

    Meanwhile, on the other side of the world:

    This was my old man’s ship in the battle that saw some 200,000 people killed.

     

     

    Crosby arrived at Okinawa on 18 April and for antisubmarine patrol and radar picket duty, narrowly escaping damage from a kamikaze on 13 May. She stood out for San Francisco 18 May and arrived 19 June. Overage and badly battered from her long and strenuous service, it was considered unfeasible to repair her. Crosby was decommissioned 28 September 1945 and sold 23 May 1946, to Boston Metals Co., Baltimore Maryland

  49. 49.

    Craig

    May 8, 2020 at 9:13 pm

    Thanks Tom

  50. 50.

    Mohagan

    May 8, 2020 at 9:17 pm

    @Elizabelle: isn’t the address lovely for a WWII museum. There are a lot of FDR streets in Europe.

  51. 51.

    Mike in NC

    May 8, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @PJ: It’s quite likely that Josef Stalin himself would be shocked by Trump’s malignant narcissism.

  52. 52.

    rikyrah

    May 8, 2020 at 9:24 pm

    If only…

    This is how a Chinese school is making sure their students don’t spread COVID.What are U.S. states that are re-opening doing to make sure students don’t spread the virus? pic.twitter.com/s2DuSPp00s— Joshua Potash (@JoshuaPotash) May 8, 2020

  53. 53.

    Uncle Cosmo

    May 8, 2020 at 9:27 pm

    @Tom Levenson: Actual title: Why the Allies Won. I have a copy on my WW2 shelf. /pedant

    Anyone innocent of logistical considerations who dives into a “history” of World War 2.0 that is largely silent on the subject might learn what happened in what sequence but will never understand why.

    To take just one example: Why was Hitler so obsessed with Antwerp that he lobbed more V-2s at it than at London & made the goal of his longshot winter counterattack taking the city? Because, boys&girls, it was the only port capable of supplying the Allied armies – if it could be neutralized, all supplies would have to be driven from France, hundreds of miles from the front. If the Wehrmacht could have wrecked Antwerp it might have added as much as 6 months to the war in the West – & left nearly all of Germany in the Soviets’ hands by the surrender.

    (ETA: I also have on my shelf a revised edition of Total War: Causes and Courses of the Second World War, by Calvocoressi, Wint and Pritchard. IMO simply the best one-volume  (though massive) treatment of the subject . In the foreword to the revised edition, the primary author notes that the first edition more than likely confused most of its readers because nothing seemed to make sense, and explains there was a reason: At the time of its first publication, the Ultra codebreaking operations at Bletchley Park were still covered by the Official Secrets Act, & to mention them was bluntly to risk prison. And much of what in fact happened was critically dependent on what the Allies knew that the Germans didn’t know they knew, courtesy of the codebreakers. Now, he continues, all can be told.)

  54. 54.

    raven

    May 8, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    @Uncle Cosmo: The logistical tail always wags the dog.

  55. 55.

    Sloane Ranger

    May 8, 2020 at 9:29 pm

    @PJ: According to Max Hastings, British journalist and writer of WWII history books, Churchill wanted British and American forces to continue driving east after the German surrender but was told No Way by the Americans.

  56. 56.

    rikyrah

    May 8, 2020 at 9:30 pm

    Iowa now has had more confirmed COVID cases than South Korea.— Steven Dennis (@StevenTDennis) May 8, 2020

  57. 57.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 9:38 pm

    @Mohagan:   Yes.  And we should have more FDR streets here

    ETA:  And a lot of John F. Kennedy streets, etc. in Europe, too.

  58. 58.

    Uncle Cosmo

    May 8, 2020 at 9:39 pm

    @raven: Napoleon I (or maybe Frederick the Great) said, An army marches on its stomach.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    May 8, 2020 at 9:43 pm

    @Sloane Ranger: PBS has been rebroadcasting The Roosevelts around here.  I’ve seen bits and pieces of the episode where FDR is ill and dying.  It really does make one wonder how/if the war in Europe might have ended differently if he had died and Truman was President before the meeting in Yalta, etc., etc.

    (Great essay as always, Tom.  Thanks.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    J R in WV

    May 8, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    Thanks for this! I read it out loud to wife, and had trouble finishing for the tears choking me up.

    My Uncle J was a medic and ambulance driver with the Free French in North Africa and wherever they fought after that part of the war was over, and finally came home with jaundice and a Croix de Guerre. His brother, my uncle G was a CPO on a cruiser in the South Pacific.

    My mom’s big brother, my uncle B was a gunner in a heavy bomber in the South Pacific, and could barely speak of his war experience. I have learned more from my cousin who heard about it while his dad had PTSD flash-backs and nightmares at 3 am.

    To think, we relished crushing the Nazis in Germany, and now we worry that they are taking over America, via Trump and his fascist minions.

    We need to hang more Nazis as soon as possible! I don’t normally believe in capital punishment, but I will make an exception in the case of Nazis, all of them.

    Thanks for this moving history!

  61. 61.

    Lapassionara

    May 8, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    Thanks, Tom.

  62. 62.

    tokyokie

    May 8, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    What I don’t understand about contemporary Nazis, Illinois ones and otherwise, is don’t they have any recollection on how things worked out for them in the end? The Third Reich lasted but a few of the 1,000 years it boasted in its mythology and German-speaking countries were reduced to rubble. Is that what these dimwitted losers want? But as I heard Larry King say once to a white supremacist on his radio show back in the day: “You’re not discriminated against because you’re white. You’re discriminated against because you’re stupid.”

     

    Anyway, earlier today I read an account by the radio operator who sent out the first notice of the German surrender. Eisenhower had three radiomen standing by to relay news to various locations, but he deliberately chose the youngest, who was only 20, to send the first notice because “He wanted him to talk about it for the rest of his life.” The guy’s 95 now, and still doing so.

  63. 63.

    Elizabelle

    May 8, 2020 at 9:59 pm

    @J R in WV:   So glad you and Mrs. JR enjoyed the article.  It was especially good, wasn’t it?

    There’s a story about DDE embedded within, about the toll of D-Day.  It’s got audio with still photo of Eisenhower addressing his troops but … the closed captioning has howlers in it.  I don’t think anyone ever checked it closely.  Freezers of men, etc.

    Anyway, I had never heard of Hermann Richter before.  A mini Mengele.  Some famous artist has the name now.

    And yes, we need to swat the fascists today down so hard they don’t  try this again for several generations.  Seriously.  Some of these people need prison and execution for treason would be just.  They’ve installed an illegitimate POTUS who is killing thousands of Americans through negligence and indifference during a pandemic.  Destroying our government infrastructure that was built up over time to serve the public good.

    They must bear a cost.  Germany is better for what it did in the Third Reich’s aftermath.  We need to be severe too, even though our situation is nowhere near that … but it’s a good lesson on dealing with discredited and malevolent ideology.

  64. 64.

    HumboldtBlue

    May 8, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:

    Yeah, I have the Green Book bookmarked and completely spaced on that. Thanks for the links.

     

    @Tom Levenson:

    Thank you, sir, I dropped your name to a former HSU President during an exit interview as we talked about the need for better science education and I told her I was learning from this guy who posts on a blog I read. She mentioned she wanted to write books on how to better teach science. She was also very unpopular, so take that for what you will.

     

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Thank you.

  65. 65.

    Matt McIrvin

    May 8, 2020 at 10:16 pm

    @tokyokie: Once, when I was still willing to do such things, I got into an argument on another social media platform with a “white nationalist” who got very upset when I evoked the memory of World War II. He insisted liberals were stupid for equating his type with Hitler. I think he was upset because Hitler lost. He thought he was much, much smarter. This time for sure!

    He sure liked to “joke” about how the stormtroopers were coming to exterminate me though. Always that kidding-not-kidding about mass murder

    I wonder where the American mass graves are, that they’ll find a few years from now?

  66. 66.

    p.a.

    May 8, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    My uncle (by marriage) fired the last official shot of the European theater.  Same action maybe.

    http://www.cutbankpioneerpress.com/news/article_e7354e12-a4bd-56b2-b3cf-3accb1b6965a.html

    The cease-fire order had become effective at a minute past midnight on May 7. The only outfit still fighting at the time, the 387th had made the farthest eastern advance in Czechoslovakia.

    About 9:30 p.m., word came from a forward position that Technical Sergeant Steve Lumbert had been wounded. Dispatched to bring him back, Mozzetta led a squad that advanced while Lumbert was being evacuated to the rear, and the general location of the German sniper was pointed out to Mozzetta. He aimed in that direction and fired.

    “I don’t know whether he hit him,” says Popejoy, a machine gunner for the same unit. “But the sniping quit.”

    Some 55 years later as the Last Shot Memorial was dedicated at Fort Benning, Ga., the Army’s “home of infantry,” Popejoy was there, too.

    So were Kent Babb of Farmerville, La.; Jim Falkner of Salt Lake City, Utah; and Delfin Martin of Old Bridge, N.J., members of Company B, who were given the honor of unveiling the monument during the Oct. 12 ceremony. Health problems prohibited Mozzetta and his wife, Rosie, from attending the dedication.

  67. 67.

    Captain C

    May 8, 2020 at 10:20 pm

    1. @Mike in NC: Even money that even so, Stalin would have used it to manipulate Trump, and quite easily.
  68. 68.

    frosty

    May 8, 2020 at 10:29 pm

    @HumboldtBlue: “re-supplied by a fleet of dedicated ships carrying everything needed to keep a fleet afloat.”

    Look up Ulithi. A huge staging base for the amphibious island attacks.

  69. 69.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 8, 2020 at 10:30 pm

    @raven: Amateurs talk tactics.  Professionals talk logistics.

  70. 70.

    frosty

    May 8, 2020 at 10:31 pm

    I’ve been following WW2today.com for years. They went thru the war on 70th anniversaries and started again for 75th. Lots of history I didn’t know. Check it out.

  71. 71.

    Dagaetch

    May 8, 2020 at 10:38 pm

    I know it’s technically not KIA, but my grandfather was killed in a traffic accident in November 1945, outside Brussels. He was going to complete the paperwork for his unit to come home. War sucks, full stop. People go off to war. Some of them die. And it doesn’t really matter whether they die at the beginning or the end, from a bullet or from a car wreck, my grandmother got the same telegraph as every other wife or mother.

  72. 72.

    frosty

    May 8, 2020 at 10:45 pm

    @randy khan: I visited the War Room in 2014. The pinholes on the map where they tracked the Atlantic convoys! Same map!!

  73. 73.

    Scott Alloway

    May 8, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    @Sloane Ranger: We’ll meet again. Makes me tear up at 70. My father softly sang that after my mother’s memorial service, standing near me. Both were Navy at Moffit in San Francisco at the end of the war.

  74. 74.

    allium

    May 8, 2020 at 11:25 pm

    @Calouste: There’s a parody RPG called Diana: Warrior Princess whose premise is that in the far future, people will have as muddled a view of current* times as episodes of Xena: Warrior Princess did of ancient history. It’s centered on Princess Diana and her sidekick Fergie as they motorcycle around the land of England, dodging the plots of Queen Elizabeth and her sorceress Thatcher, and attempting (with the occasional help of the barbarian hero “Red Ken” and American gunslinger Wild Bill Gates) to defeat the evil war god Landmines once and for all.

    * (written in 2003)

  75. 75.

    J R in WV

    May 8, 2020 at 11:29 pm

    Tom,

    Thanks so much for this post. As a kid I didn’t really understand war. Now I do, as I passed pretty close to one back in 1970-73. Tragic in every way, even for the winners. My father flunked his entry exam when he volunteered, and went back home to work in the family business for his dad. All my uncles went away to war, as I mentioned above.

    Nazis (which includes the Imperial Japanese high command!) were defeated in 1945, a lifetime ago. And now here they are again. Dammit!

    You all stay safe, take care. We are having visitors suddenly to look at damage from the dammed tree, so I hope the odds are with us as we have to fix what is broken. Ceiling in guest bedroom is soggy wet sheet rock… can’t be left as is.

  76. 76.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    May 9, 2020 at 1:19 am

    Why does Aaron have a giant bagel strapped to his waist? I thought only matzoh was allowed in the desert, plus that looks like a Noah’s “bagel” and everyone knows those are the least authentic, most waterlogged excuses for bagels ever.

  77. 77.

    Sm*t Cl*de

    May 9, 2020 at 4:46 am

    @Lamont Cranston:

    John William Waterhouse is the best painter of pretty women one pretty woman who ever lived.

    JWW had an ‘ideal’ and he stuck with her.

  78. 78.

    Elroy's Lunch

    May 9, 2020 at 9:02 am

    I posted a text to friends last night with a photo of “Germany Surrenders” on the front page of May 7, 1945 issue of The Baltimore News-Post as reminder of the end of WWII. My wife’s mother’s boyfriend/fiancé (she demurred, preferring to wait until the war was over) was killed towards the end of the Battle of the Bulge.

    Isadore S. Jachman

    We take Tom’s words to heart.

  79. 79.

    Barry

    May 9, 2020 at 10:15 am

    @Gin & Tonic: “Maybe raise a glass also to honor those people in Eastern Europe for whom this was just the exchange of one tyranny for another. Stalin for Hitler wasn’t such a bargain.”

     

    Who here wouldn’t know which to take, given that unpleasant choice?

  80. 80.

    Barry

    May 9, 2020 at 10:16 am

    @Mike in NC: “Most of us are familiar with the story about how — when the landings on Omaha Beach appeared to be faltering — Ike whipped out a notebook and composed a memorandum placing any and all blame for the failure to establish a beachhead squarely on himself.”

     

    He had already written it and had it in his wallet.

  81. 81.

    Barry

    May 9, 2020 at 10:18 am

    @Emma from FL: “Legend has it she can still strip a Jeep and put it back together again.”

     

    BTW, that’s not hard.  I  drove and worked on a Jeep in the early 1980’s, and they are great shade-tree mechanic machines.

  82. 82.

    leeleeFL

    May 9, 2020 at 11:48 am

    @TomatoQueen: I have always felt so!  The Royals set a great example for stiff-upper-lipping and doing your bit.  And I have watched the Queen do much the same thing at other moments.  She missed the mark on some occasions, and was called on it by PMs or Aides.  When that happened, she often adjusted her sail to keep the Ship of State afloat.  Not a bad legacy, methinks!

  83. 83.

    leeleeFL

    May 9, 2020 at 11:55 am

    @Barry: Knowing that bit of History changed my viewpoint on the man.  Still did not like some stuff he did while President, but I had to admire the character and honor it took to be ready to fess up to such a collossal mess up.  I have tried to be braver in some situations I have encountered because of it.

    Also too, in answer to another Post:  Outlawing Nazis was a moral obligation,  not unlike executing or imprisoning the Southern Traitors of the Civil War.  We did neither, to bind up wounds.  We need to start ripping off Band-Aids to save Civilization.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Biden-Harris Inauguration

Biden-Harris Inauguration Website

Official events – watch at top link

Kakistocracy
I believe In My Fellow Americans
Defeat Them
Turning Bystanders Into Activists
First Up, COVID

Do Something!

Call Your Senators & Representatives
Directory of US Senators
Directory of US Representatives
Letter to Elected Officials – Albatrossity
Letter to Elected Officials – Martin

I Got the Shot!

🎈Ways to Support Our Site

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal
Shop Amazon via this link to support Balloon Juice ⬇  

Recent Comments

  • OzarkHillbilly on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Wednesday/Thursday, Jan. 20-21 (Jan 21, 2021 @ 5:57am)
  • sab on Here Comes The Sun (Jan 21, 2021 @ 5:54am)
  • NotMax on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Wednesday/Thursday, Jan. 20-21 (Jan 21, 2021 @ 5:44am)
  • sab on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Wednesday/Thursday, Jan. 20-21 (Jan 21, 2021 @ 5:42am)
  • OzarkHillbilly on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: Wednesday/Thursday, Jan. 20-21 (Jan 21, 2021 @ 5:39am)

Team Claire, and Family

Help for David’s Niece Claire
Claire Updates
Claire update for the holidays 12/23

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year

Featuring

John Cole
Silverman on Security
COVID-19 Coronavirus
Medium Cool with BGinCHI
Information Is Power

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Submit Photos to On the Road
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Meetups: Proof of Life
2021 Pets of Balloon Juice Calendar

Culture: Books, Film, TV, Music, Games, Podcasts

Noir: Favorites in Film, Books, TV
Book Recommendations & Indy Recs
Mystery Recommendations
Medium Cool: What If (Books & Films)
Netflix Favorites
Amazon Prime Favorites
Netflix Suggestions in July
Fun Music Thread
Longmire & Netflix Suggestions
Medium Cool: Places!
Medium Cool: Games!
Medium Cool: Watch or Read Again

Twitter

John Cole’s Twitter

[custom-twitter-feeds]

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2021 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!