Josh Marshall posted this last night and I think he’s right:
As I said, we seem to be entirely on our own, with a half-decapitated national government depending on limited executive leadership, a rebounding and critical role for national public health agencies with a lot of the lead taken by states, localities and the private sector.
We all feared a serious event managed by our incompetent, corrupt President, and here we are. I don’t know about you, but I don’t bother listening to his addresses to the nation. It’s easy enough to read a news story afterwards and find out what stupid, or at best half-smart, thing he’s doing. There’s no time that I miss Obama more than times like these, times when his steady, calm and competent leadership would be such a change from what we have now.
That all said, I don’t feel hopeless or even negative about the fact that we’re alone. Better to recognize it and act. Most of what needs to be done now — containment — doesn’t require much federal intervention. We had our first confirmed case in Rochester yesterday, and our St Patrick’s Day parade was just cancelled. Our health department and new Democratic County Executive are on top of it. Our world-class teaching hospital, and excellent community hospitals, are all preparing. We will do the best we can, and what Trump says or doesn’t say won’t have god damned thing to do with our survival.
JanieM
I’m with you on most of it, but this:
is unfortunately not true. Clickbait and his enablers can have plenty to do with our survival by hindering it in all sorts of intentional and unintentional ways.
That said, I’m betting on us in the long run, not them.
hells littlest angel
I’m fine being on my own, considering the alternative. Someone park a fire engine on the White House lawn for Trump to play with.
Couch Thing
Crazy. You mean to say that the party with a platform built around destroying the government and making it inefficient and useless somehow has destroyed our government and made it inefficent and useless? And, a useless, inefficient government is a bad thing? Especially during a major crises?
dmsilev
This reminds me a lot of 2008. Remember the financial crisis and how George Bush was largely checked out of dealing with it? And remember how Obama, in the middle of the campaign, came across as the level-headed guy who should be in charge?
Now look at Joe Biden, assembling his own team of public health experts and will be giving a speech on the subject later today.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
In contrast, Biden is convening a panel of actual experts who he will actually listen to. There’s a limit to what he can do as a private citizen but it’s not zero. The contrast in leadership is pretty stark.
Barbara
Yes, agreed, except that the federal response has basically impeded the testing and reporting of cases that allow state and local jurisdictions to target their efforts to make them potentially less disruptive and more efficient and cost-effective. Now, they have to assume that the situation is at the worse end of the spectrum because they are completely aware that they don’t and cannot know the real truth. All so Donny Dumbfuck can pretend that we have fewer cases than Italy or wherever else he has decided to cast around for a comparison that makes him look better. When I see his response, I can totally understand how he managed to go bankrupt six times.
lee
I’m the same way. I think it will probably be worse because of the incompetence at the federal level, but I think my local systems will be able to handle it fairly well.
It is the areas like Alabama and Mississippi are going to get absolutely fucked by this.
germy
swiftfox
Last presidential address watched by choice: Carter in the Cardigan
Joey Maloney
@lee: They’re well-used to being fucked by government incompetence and corruption. The only difference is for a change it won’t be their own state government.
Punchy
And as been repeated so many times, in utter disbelief: 10s of millions of Americans hear, watch, and follow this President, and think he’s doing a great job. Think he’s being a great leader with this pandemic, a great role model, a protector of Americans. They note his behavior, decision-making, and judgement….and believe it’s exceptional, without reproach.
Impossible to understand how this can be, but yet it is.
Baud
I have a feeling the chant of “Four More Years” will be less enthusiastic than in past reelection campaigns.
Might I suggest, “It can’t possibly be worse, can it?” as an alternative.
Booger
For better or worse, to a certain extent we are ALWAYS on our own…thinking back to 2005, when we faced a year-long series of natural disasters (hurricanes, mostly) which showed how little government (and NGOs like the ARC) can really do when TSHTF.
Even with a decent government in place there is only so much it can do in a crisis. The bottom line is that we–each and everyone of us–needs to prepare in such a way as to minimize the aid we individually require when our particular disaster arises.
The derecho in 2012(?) was a good example. Intense, localized impact that was unpredictable. A lot of human misery that might have been ameliorated by some cans of food and a few jugs of water.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
So at this moment I still have three outside activities: a German class (mostly 20-somethings but a couple folks my age), tutoring underserved kids, and a singing group (adults of all ages but a disproportionate number over 70).
Otherwise I’m home full time now.
All are still going on but I think the responsible thing is to pull out of all of them. I really especially hate to abandon the kids but I don’t think I can risk the exposure in either direction.
donnah
My mom’s 84, has a lot of health issues, and as a widow, has a social structure that revolves around a circle of friends from church and the children’s hospital where she volunteers. The hospital just dismissed all of their volunteers over age 60. She grumbled about that and repeated what she’s been hearing, that it’s just another flu and people are overreacting.
Last night I sat with her and explained that this is a genuine threat, not a hoax. I told her that with her medical history, she’s a prime target for the virus and that she needs to stay home for a while and curtail her travel. I told her I would do her shopping if she needs anything and help if she needs me.
She’s on Facebook, which connects her to family members who live far away and she’s still mentally sharp, so I told her to ignore the crap info and focus on what we know as truth. I don’t know if she’ll actually curb some of her activities, but I’ll do my best to see that she does. It would help if we didn’t have a president who lies and tells us it’s no big deal.
Ruckus
It is a reality of the modern day world that we are all in this together. Conservatives hate that, they want to survive and have the rest of us leave them to building a world from 1950’s TV, with slavery thrown in as an added bonus.
Their choice and seemingly Vlad’s as well has done more to get them down the road to that end, not by design but by total fucking incompetence, total fucking lack of a functioning brain and an unlimited supply of stupid.
We need the federal government because a lot of the things that need to be done, the resources, possibly the military, they are all controlled by a complete fucking idiot who they can’t mold into anything resembling a useful idiot. And besides they don’t want anything more, they want less. So yes we need a functioning federal government. We need all to be able to pay for the things, like S. Korea is doing. We don’t have that at all, and it has and will continue to cost us dearly.
Marcopolo
As a grad of U Rochester let me say Go Strong Memorial & the Med School.
Here in StL the authorities finally got around to cancelling all the St Pat festivities late yesterday. Leadership is coming from the County & City governments. In contrast, at the state level we have this:
Missouri Senate shuts down amid coronavirus concerns; House staying in session
We’ve had limited guidance from the R Governor but that is just as likely because we don’t have a lot of identified cases here…yet. I bet if we started doing massive testing we’d find them, though.
Everyone stay safe, wash your hands, keep your distance in interactions with others, cover your coughs, don’t touch your face, and for god’s sake stay away from large groups. We’ll get through this but it looks like it will be Italy ugly atm.
Barbara
@donnah: Lies and tells us it’s no big deal and then cancels travel from Europe for 30 days.
Booger
@swiftfox: …with a candlestick?
Marcopolo
I was stupid & just looked at the markets. One more day like this and all the gains the stock market has made over the course of the Trump presidency will be wiped out.
On the positive side, there goes that argument for his re-election.
I guess the coming recession will nuke the strong economy/job market argument as well.
Butch
I heard exactly one sentence of his “speech” and decided a rerun of Spring Baking Championship would be a better use of my time.
oldster
I usually cannot stand to listen to his speeches — it is physically painful and rage-inducing.
I caught the opening of his speech last night on the car radio, and listened to the whole thing.
It was weird — he was so drugged-up and listless that much of what makes him unbearable was not there. He was not smug, mocking, or arrogant. He wasn’t even petulant. He was just vacant, hollowed-out, and low energy. He was pathetic, which in fact he always is, but this time a slight glimpse of his own inferiority seemed to be creeping in on him.
This morning, I’m sure that he is back to screaming. Jared and Stephen told him that a ban on Europe would bring the stock market roaring back, and instead his speech tanked the market big-time. So it’s their fault, not his.
He is still one of the worst human beings that I have ever observed, in almost 70 years of observing human wretchedness. But last night was importantly different.
A Ghost to Most
The Roycohnican Party has finally reached it’s zenith. The only option left is to nuke it from space, just to be sure.
Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA)
A coworker was just on the phone, bitching that they’re making too big a deal about this. I want to slap her.
oldster
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
My local gospel choir — again, disproportionately oldsters — has decided to suspend rehearsals and concerts for the foreseeable. It’s a damned shame, as it is the best night of the week each week. But it’s clearly the right decision to make.
Spanky
@Marcopolo:
Dow Jones record high in February was 29568. Closing value on Inauguration Day 2017 was 19827. A few minutes ago it was 21779.
All of Trump’s “beautiful” stock market. Wiped. Out.
Gotta stock up on cat food. I have no idea what the cats are going to eat.
smintheus
Actually, it does matter what Trump says/does. At a minimum, we need to have a usable test for the virus and his government is actively preventing us from using the ones that exist. Without a test, and absent total lockdown nationwide, there is no way to control the spread. It can be slowed by local authorities, it can be met with medical treatment until it grows too large, but it cannot be stopped as things stand with the perverse national government we have.
Trump should be removed from office immediately. Calling the virus a hoax and not a threat and claiming it was contained are a plain mark of derangement.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I’ll avoid all the obvious jokes and just quietly hum “The Circle of Life” to myself here in my corner.
Baud
@Spanky: I missed all the gains because I got out because I didn’t trust Trump. For a little time there, I was wondering whether I made the right decision. I will never distrust my distrust in Republicans again.
randy khan
I just said to someone in my office that one reason for the market reaction this morning may well be the realization that the NBA and NCAA have a better handle on this than the Administration. And the wingers on my social media feed are posting things like an interview with a COVID-19 survivor who says it wasn’t bad, so they’re not going to help.
A Ghost to Most
I often follow Rubin’s column comment thread on WaPo. I’ve never seen it as busy as it is today. People are PISSED.
germy
UncleEbeneezer
@Couch Thing: The “Let them die” party, remember.
Marcopolo
@Mingobat (f/k/a Karen in GA): I dunno, maybe ask her if she has any grandparents she likes. If she says yes, tell her the mortality rate for folks over 80 is 15%. Obviously not a good argument with people who hate the olds.
Omnes Omnibus
You.
Betty Cracker
To reiterate from the thread downstairs because it’s more topical here: I wonder to what extent the heroic actions of reality-based state and municipal governments will be undermined by the feckless response of their red state counterparts. Sorta like how gun control doesn’t work so well in big cities because lax laws in neighboring yahoo states undermine them.
Florida, which has a very large elderly population, much of it concentrated in 55+ communities, is doing jack and shit about controlling the spread so far. Individual companies, organizations and cities have taken some action — my kiddo’s college went all online as of yesterday.
But festivals and events are still being held, people are going out to eat and visit the theme parks, etc.
A Ghost to Most
@Spanky: You. Just be glad they don’t have opposable thumbs.
germy
7-Eleven owner charged after bootleg sanitizer burns kids
jc
Trump had his top experts Stephen Miller and Jared Kushner write the address to the nation, and then they wonder why their half-baked, zero-compassion measures fall flat. Their usual approach of bluffing and propagandizing the situation is not playing well this time. The crisis of leadership on top of the health crisis is cause for real worry.
Elizabelle
Good morning.
I am seething that Trump banned travel from Europe unilaterally. He did not so much as give our allies’ ambassadors a head’s up this might be coming.
And his administration goes along with it.
Our economies are so intertwined. It is not Trump’s prerogative to damage European economies so swiftly and arbitrarily.
But he permits travel from the UK (hi mad cow land) and non-Schengen countries (is that the case? — Hello Croatia).
Trump does as much damage as he can to our American institutions, on purpose and sometimes as collateral damage. That needs to stop at the water’s edge.
SFAW
@A Ghost to Most:
Or nadir/Nader. But now that you’ve written that, the Rethug Partei says “Hold muh beer.” As has been said here many times: There is no such thing as Peak Wingnut.
Excellent idea in theory, almost impossible to implement without significant collateral damage. And I’m not one who subscribes to the “if you want to make an omelet, you need to break a few eggs” theory of politics.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
“What else have you got to lose?”
Baud
@Chyron HR: We’re all his African American now.
jc
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Biden can and should speak and act like a president, something that is apparently beyond Trump’s ability.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Punchy: I live in a blue state and I work with a lot of these true believers. The amount of time I spend practically standing on my tongue in order not to get into screaming matches with them is painful…
The Thin Black Duke
Reality always wins in the end.
Ella in New Mexico
I’m incredibly pleased with the way Governors and state Public Health organizations are simply ignoring the Administration’s bullshit and seeking out the most current scientific and infectious disease prevention info in making their decisions, regardless of Party.
Just goes to show that when they’re in a damn foxhole, people shunt politics or religion and focus on living. it’s why we’ll be ok, even if it’s a bumpy ride for the upcoming months
Eyes on the prize.
TaMara (HFG)
Happily we seem to have a strong Governor and state reps who are on top of this. We have drive-through testing (though only one location for the ENTIRE state at the moment), we are updated whenever needed and procedures are in place.
It’s not surprising that strong leadership helps to keep things relatively normal and confidence is high we’ll get through this.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke: It does have a liberal bias.
MattF
And, just as a sidenote, Bitcoin is plummeting. Not a safe haven for value, I guess.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Betty Cracker: Well it looks like the events are having the expected consequences:
Health officials said this is a travel-related case and he traveled from New York to attend Bike Week in Daytona. A 56-year-old man in Miami-Dade County has also tested positive. He is isolated, this is also a travel-related case. Health officials said a 70-year-old man in Broward County has tested positive for coronavirus. The man attended the Emergency Medical Services Conference in Tampa.
Gotta love that last one…
Is Loki in charge of this timeline??
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/03/12/new-york-man-traveling-to-daytonas-bike-week-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-health-officials-say/
germy
Damn.
ziggy
We are not on our own, we have state and local authorities, and hopefully they will all step up and take action. The governors of Washington and Oregon have banned gatherings of 250 or more (in WA, last time I checked, the three major counties). Gatherings or 50 or less discouraged, businesses must show they are taking steps to keep customers safe. Seattle School district and many others are shut down, with more sure to follow. Most major local companies on “work from home” status.
Here’s a mark of what is to come–Tom Douglas, a major local chef, has closed down ALL his restaurants for 8-12 weeks. And I’m pretty sure he can financially weather it. But I don’t see how 90% of other eateries survive if this is extended, unless perhaps they transition to deliveries? Thinking of all the other in-person services that are not subsistance–short list off the top of my head–gyms, event locations, musicians, maids, theaters–all employing people who live paycheck to paycheck. Even my dentist called with an opening for tooth-cleaning (due to cancellation)–that never happens!
Eolirin
There’s not just the public health crisis, there’s the economic one that’s going to be following it.
While the states can maybe do what’s needed to mitigate the health crisis, for a little while at least – a little longer than that if someone can convince Trump he needs to declare a national emergency over this – they’re not positioned to be able to mitigate the economic one. They can’t run deficits.
Without federal spending we can’t address either of these issues for long. They feed into and reinforce each other. And the only way this is dealt with quickly enough that it doesn’t drag out for far too many months is if everyone gets sick close together so that we get the benefits of herd immunity, but that will mean a truly massive number of deaths. We’ll be constantly dealing with reinfection otherwise.
Hopefully Pelosi can get some things pushed through the Senate. McConnell is more evil than stupid so we may be able to limp along until January 20th.
But this is going to be bad, even in the best case. We have to be prepared for that. And still do everything we can individually, knowing that it isn’t going to stave off disaster.
I know a lot of people here are older, please do what you can to stay safe. Any of your voices would be missed.
And if there’s any way we can set up some way to keep track of how our community is doing and if there’s things we can do to help each other that would be really good. We’ve got a platform we can use to coordinate response to need, medically, financially, or otherwise, and we should use it. We can at least have each other’s backs.
WereBear
@TaMara (HFG): Our NY Governor Cuomo has been doing daily press briefings and it does help to see competence in action. He’s got an operation going for free hand sanitizer to stop price gouging and other scams, for instance.
germy
MattF
@germy: Blame someone, not me.
Chyron HR
@germy:
I thought that the “it’s totally harmless” talking point superseded the “it’s a deadly Chinese bioweapon” talking point.
germy
@WereBear: Where will the sanitizer be available? I visited our local grocer last night. No hand sanitizer. No disinfectant wipes. No rubbing alcohol.
Plenty of cat food, fortunately. And toilet paper.
FlyingToaster (Tablet)
FWIW, the Massachusetts Science Olympiad Div B (Middle School) is cancelled.
The Massachusetts Suzuki Festival is cancelled.
Those were this weekend’s plans at Chez Toaster.
I think we’ll stay home and bake a pie for π day.
germy
Marcopolo
@MattF: Gold, cigarettes, and seeds. :) I wonder, though, with fewer folks smoking do cigarettes still hold their value?
Also too, hey, today is the kickoff day for the 2020 Census. Guess that’s another thing the Prez forgot to mention last night, you know, how all this might affect the Census.
The 2020 census kicks off across the United States today. It’s expected to be the largest in US history
bemused
I just read a Bloomberg piece that new study from Lancet says patients with coronavirus keep the pathogen in their respiratory tract for as long as 37 days suggesting they could remain infectious for many weeks. Doctors in China detected the virus’s RNA from survivor samples for a median of 20 days after they were infected.
I told my husband to tell this to his co-workers who are republicans or don’t watch any news and think coronavirus is no big deal that this virus kills people up to 10 times more than usual flu as per Dr. Anthony Fauci. I doubt most of them will pay attention though because scientists and professionals don’t impress them.
germy
@Chyron HR: “It’s completely harmless but we’ll make them pay for manufacturing it and shipping it over here.” Or something.
SFAW
@germy:
It means he’s:
A) Nuts
B) An asshole
C) Evil
D) All of the above
I’m going with (D)
ETA: Forgot to include “Moron”
WereBear
@germy: Right now I understand it’s being send to New Rochelle (they are probably bathing in it) and NYC; all the places with confirmed outbreaks.
Our local supermarkets have wipes stationed near the carts. Shelves fully stocked.
At work I alerted our supplies manager and she got her order for tissues and hand sanitizer in before the panic.
It’s another lizard brain issue, like the toilet paper. Soap and water is actually more lifesaving. And not touching your face. But there’s no panic fun in that one, I guess.
Elizabelle
@SFAW:
(E) a conspiracy freak who thinks he is way smarter than he is.
Sad that people are taken in by prestige educations in people who actually remain somewhat unschooled.
germy
@SFAW:
SFAW
@germy:
Good Christ, what a moronic asshole. [Plus, what Elizabelle said.]
WereBear
@germy:
Personally, I feel better watching his daily press conferences. Just seeing competence on the job…
Barbara
@SFAW: Well, if people are rational, it means anyone who identifies as having Asian heritage should not vote Republican for the rest of their natural lives. I mean, what a fucking idiot he must be.
Elizabelle
@The Thin Black Duke:
That is the second pithy comment from you that I will nominate for a rotating tag line. (The other one being to the effect that you don’t have to show up at every argument to which you are invited… do you recall the exact wording of that one??)
SFAW
@Barbara:
As the
shysterspettifoggerslawyers here might say: “Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.” [Yes, I saw the “if.” Just work with me on this one, OK?]Dorothy A. Winsor
Someone on twitter says the stock market has gone to a farm upstate.
Immanentize
I have made it clear I am no Sanders fan. In part because his reckless personal behavior after his heart attack demonstrated that he (and those around him) care more for power than for the good of the candidate (or the country?). I know, he believes he is the one person who is the hood thing. Trump believed that too. As DeGaulle said, “the cemeteries are filled with indispensible men.”
I am not sure that the Sunday debate should go on with both Biden and Sanders in the same space. I frankly do not trust Sanders or his team to be honest about Covid symptoms.
Jinchi
Trump has proven repeatedly that he will actively abandon anyone in their hour of need. Whether it was American doctors fighting Ebola in Africa, Puerto Ricans devastated by a 500 year hurricane, or our Syrian Kurdish allies, he shows absolute indifference to their plight. He shrugs off the murder of ‘not even a citizen’ Khashoggi, and wanted to strand 2000 American passengers at sea just to avoid his ‘numbers going up unfairly’.
Betty Cracker
WaPo:
Trump seemed short of breath during the speech last night. Hmmm. If he and Pence both go down, does that mean Pelsoi is in charge?
SFAW
@Immanentize:
You’ve just outed yourself as a member of the Democrat Establishment.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Theoretically. Although if Pence goes down before Trump, I would half-expect him to nominate Ivanka as VP, and Mitch approves her on a voice vote. Fortunately, Speaker Pelosi also has a say.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: Thoughts and Prayers.
Jinchi
@Immanentize: Barring any chance evidence that either of these men is sick, I think the debate should go forward, if only so that Americans can see the contrast between the president we have and the ones who could replace him. I think people are getting desperate to see that there are capable people who could manage the country in a crisis.
Redshift
@SFAW: It worked for them to scapegoat foreigners for their base’s economic problems, it was a cinch they’re go with the same playbook. Especially when the alternative was (again) being blamed themselves.
SFAW
@JPL:
Me too. I pray that they are spared the suffering of a long, debilitating illness.
Marcopolo
@Immanentize: I think the debate should go forward and both candidates should use it 1) to excoriate Trump for his response to COVID-19; 2) to share what actions folks can take to flatten the curve. And I would love to see both Sanders & Biden just refuse to answer–by steering their response to the current situation–any question that is asked about anything else. If a moderator complains they should just say they are talking about an issue that affects everyone, now, and tens of thousands of lives are in the balance.
Barbara
@Betty Cracker: The mind goes there even when it tries not to. My brain has been wandering around to deus ex machina solutions for a long while now.
Gin & Tonic
@SFAW: Given the obvious differences in health between the two men, I’d expect Trump to go first. (No, I do not believe his “doctors”, why do you ask?)
germy
@WereBear: Thank you.
jc
@A Ghost to Most: The “Roycohnican Party” — that made me laugh, then it made me cry.
SFAW
@Gin & Tonic: But his “doctor” wrote that he would be the most healthiestest “President” EVAH! I think it was Dr. John Barron, but not sure about that.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Me, too.
Shalimar
Dow currently 5th worst day ever. 2nd worst if you exclude a certain two weeks from 1929.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: We may be about to witness Darwin’s “survival of the fittest” in action.
Kirk Spencer
So I ran the numbers for my locale, greater Houston. Rounded because approximations, and have started using it as a club. I’m sharing so you can use it too.
Barring a vaccine, about 2/3 of the population will get the virus by the end of the year. Of those that do, 15% will need oxygen and 5% will need ventilation in a hospital. At least 10% and up to 80% of those needing ventilation will die depending on assets available. But that’s just proportions.
Greater Houston has about 8 million people. By Christmas if we’re careful, by the 4th of July if we’re not, 5 and a quarter million will spend a week of misery with fever and a cough, and most will be a little short of breath. They’re the lucky ones. Another million people will go to the hospital. About 3/4 of them will “just” need oxygen while about 250000 will need ventilation. If this happens by July then most of those 250000 people will die. If we do proper preparation it takes till Christmas and “only” about 25000 of them will die.
Business as usual is digging a quarter of a million graves in Houston.
WereBear
Don’t get me excited.
Elizabelle
Breaking from the NY Times:
A Brazilian delegation member who visited Mar a Loco has tested positive for coronavirus “local reports said” (ie. NY Times cannot confirm the actual infection).
You will recall that Trumpster hosted Bolsonaro very recently.
Mr. Mack
@Kirk Spencer: Sweet Jesus Kirk. I assume this is what you do for a living? Not doubting you, just curious.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle:
I have the wording for the one that I frequently repost:
Also, John has already gone through the existing list, so he won’t be doing that for awhile.
But I decided a little while ago when I read the Duke’s comment that “Reality always wins in the end is so absolutely perfect that I’m gonna sneak it in there later today and confess my sins to Cole when things settle down. Whenever that will be.
Elizabelle
Princess Cruises has suspended global operations for 60 days.
The PGA will no longer allow spectators at the tournaments.
germy
@WaterGirl: reality always wins in the end, except for Reality Winner.
WaterGirl
@Kirk Spencer:
I think your math may be wrong there by a factor of 10?
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: Thank you!
Tazj
McConnell is refusing a vote on the Democrat’s bill to help people with sick leave and testing and many other things during this crisis. I want him chased around by reporters everywhere he goes and made to explain how he could abandon Americans like this. The Republicans have to be pressured. If the press can camp out in the woods looking for Hillary, and chase Liz Warren through the airports and badger Monica Lewinsky they should go after him. I don’t want him hurt at all just hounded as he should be for this dereliction of duty.
Why are there not enough tests? There are still no good explanations from the administration.
Meanwhile I’m very worried about my husband who’s a physician and already works too much. I wonder if the hospitals are prepared.
mrmoshpotato
@germy: I……ummmmm……is this motherfucker (Tom Cotton) convinced Dr. Evil created and unleashed this virus upon the world?
What. The. Fuck?
Ella in New Mexico
@Immanentize:
You’re saying here that not only if Sanders (or one of his staffers) somehow come down with the virus, he’d be well enough to hide it AND go on with the debate so he could give it to Biden on stage?
Jesus, that’s just ridiculous and delusional. Stop it.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Tech support please. I’m feeling like a real idiot. I want to watch full back episodes of Rachel Maddow. I go to the show web page. I click on “Full Episodes”. I expect to see somewhere on that page a menu offering me some, you know, full episodes.
I don’t see any. Only various collections of short clips.
What am I missing?
Pete Mack
There are two reasons he brags on the China travel ban. Yes, there is a bit of nativism. But the main reason is that Joe Biden and Chuck Shumer both (and others!) said the travel ban was racist when it came out. It was a stupid thing to say–at the very least leave it to surrogates if you really believe that! But at the time of the ban it was quite clear that doctors and hospitals in China were overwhelmed. A quarantine was absolutely the right thing to do, and it was pretty obvious at the time.
Biden needs to get out ahead on this (he is already well behind) and apologize. It is the right thing to do, politically and morally.
mrmoshpotato
@Tazj:
Let’s spruce this up a bit.
McConnell is refusing a vote on the Democrat’s bill to help people with sick leave and testing and many other things during this crisis. I want him chased around with torches and pitchforks wherever he goes. Turtle soup anyone?
The Thin Black Duke
@Elizabelle: Thank you. And I think I said: “Remember folks, you don’t have to go to every argument you’re invited to, especially when the other guy has already made up his mind.”
mrmoshpotato
@Ella in New Mexico: What? That’s not at all what Imma was suggesting. We’re talking about being honest with describing the symptoms, not lying about actually having the symptoms.
Jeez.
Jinchi
Pretty close actually, we started seeing signs of economic collapse in March, well into the 2008 presidential campaign, although the actual collapse of the market happened in September. And Larry Kudlow was telling us all to Buy! Buy! Buy! and promising Dow 30,000!
KrackenJack
@Marcopolo: Agreed. If Bernie doesn’t go along, Biden should just ignore him and stick with the plan. He should be dong the things that a real president would do.
Kelly
Last night 2 new cases were announced in a nursing home in Lebanon, Oregon 30 miles south of here. No connection to any other cases so it’s loose in the community near us. Had to have been transmitted by staff or visitors.
Tazj
@mrmoshpotato: Yes, that’s much better.
mrmoshpotato
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Hey McFly, you bojo, it looks like the Full Episodes link is misleading.
Bojo. :)
ETA – I get clips too – both in Duckduckgo and Firefox. I also loaded the desktop site instead of the mobile.
ETA2 – I gotta add this now.
mrmoshpotato
@Tazj: ?
pluky
@Betty Cracker: YES!!!!! ?
Jinchi
I’ve seen projections like that before, but it doesn’t seem to match what we’ve seen in China, where they have around 80,000 confirmed cases and the rate has fallen over the last few weeks. Even if that number is off by a factor of 10, it would imply less than a million infected, in a country with over 1.3 billion.
Eolirin
@mrmoshpotato: That is not what I got out of Imma’s post. But I didn’t get a sense of intentionality to get Biden sick either. More like a casual disregard for Sanders’s health and the potential for it to be important to cancel the debate if he was showing signs of being symptomatic.
A “You’re running a fever? Eh, it’s probably no big deal, you can’t skip out on this, it’s your last chance to turn things around” kind of thing.
ziggy
@Kelly: Nursing homes seem to be particularly hard hit. There have been at least 5 different ones in Seattle area infected. No great solutions. Banning visitors would seem logical from a disease prevention standpoint, but terribly cruel from a social isolation point. But it may come to that if this continues.
Eolirin
@Jinchi: China instituted serious lock downs and ground their economy to a halt to prevent spread. And now they’re getting new cases from people outside the country coming back in.
Until this thing burns itself out globally China will have to restrict travel to prevent another outbreak from happening even once they get their domestic situation under control. That may not be feasible or sustainable. And it definitely won’t be for most other countries.
This isn’t over yet. It won’t be for a while.
Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
Cotton, for weeks now, has been repeating and amplifying the Conspiracy Theory that the virus is an escapee from a Chinese Bioweapons lab, where it was being engineered to kill Muslims, Gays, etc.
He’s just doubling down on the CT because it gets him lots of Wingnut and Russian retweets on Social Media.
Kirk Spencer
@WaterGirl: Please check my math. .05 of .7 of 8,000,000 is .035 of 8 million is 280,000.
60 to 70 percent will get the virus. I use 2/3 and rounded to get lots of trailing zeroes.
5 percent of the infected will need ventilation.
Deaths are almost entirely from that group. Worst case of total medical system exhaustion sees basically all of them die. It probably won’t but it’s possible. If “only” 4 percent of infected (80% of ventillated) die then it’s under 250000 by a little bit.
Feathers
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Many of these show websites want you to log in somewhere and prove you are paying for cable TV before they will let you see the full episodes. Having cut the cord, my recollection is that NBC/Universal has a global login which will let you have a certain number of episodes without a cable subscription. What enrages me is that they do this for over the air shows as well.
SlingTV has a promo going and is free through March 15th. They have MSNBC. Beyond the free promo their cheapest rate is $30/month.
Immanentize
@Ella in New Mexico: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be or sound delusional. I was trying to describe minimization. It’s happening everywhere.
I dashed that off after finishing a meeting with a Public Defender who visits clients in jails, goes to court, etc. At the end of the meeting, we talked about schools shutting down, kids being home for weeks, etc. I told him I might be going to see my Mom this weekend in Upstate NY. No cases yet reported in her area, minor responses in the town so far, and I don’t want to be in a position where her facility gets closed to visitors (and potentially not see her again?). So I asked him what he was doing. And he said, “Oh, I’ll probably just hang out at home, I feel like I’m getting a cold.”
WTF?! He should know better! He is at high risk of getting it from his contacts, and he didn’t even consider the thought that he might be infected.
That’s what I’m talking about. Minimizing. Ignoring. Maybe Biden is exactly like my colleague. Maybe Biden is a big, “No big deal” guy (all the past Big F deal to the contrary). I have no clue. But I have pretty solid evidence that Bernie and his closest advisors are huge minimizers. See him in the batting cage! Neither one of them should risk anything at this point. What is the big deal about debate number eleventh ninety that makes its risk a necessity? We spend hours complaining that Trump is killing people, but this one debate is worth the risk? What are they modelling?
If they must debate right now! Debate from separate places/studios. We have the technology for goodness sake. It might actually be way less shouty.
Immanentize
@Eolirin: That is what I was trying to say, but clearly inartfully. Thank you. I think leaders should, to the extent possible, be modelling social distancing, not televising close quarter spit fests. Regardless of the actual risks. It is a good thing to do.
I suspect the moderators and televisors might decide it is not such a great plan right now. We will see.
WaterGirl
@Kirk Spencer:
I think you were assuming “July” and I was assuming “Christmas”. If it’s Christmas, then it’s 25k, which is 1/10th of the quarter of a million.
I wasn’t questioning your overall math – I have no way to judge at this point whether your assumptions are correct. But I’m guessing that you do this sort of thing for a living?
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: There are workers all over my street working on some underground gasoline “upgrade” or something. They’ll be here messing up all of our yards for about a month.
The guy knocked on my door and was standing way too close to me this morning, so I asked him to step back, mentioning coronavirus. He said “I don’t have it.”
My reply:
I’m sure the guy thinks I’m a crank, but I am not going to let ignorance slide on this one. Not on this one where lives are at stake.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: They did decide to eliminate the audience (yahoo! on that, for oh so many reasons) and they are not going to allow press other than the moderators.
Still, I imagine there will be a million people there setting up the stage, setting up lights, etc.
Kirk Spencer
@Eolirin: supplementing your reply, the projection assumes no vaccine and a year of continued infection. Lest anyone think that’s too much, please remember the Spanish flu had a three year run. (Ok, each year had these 3-4 month peaks, but that’s because it was influenza.)
Kirk Spencer
@WaterGirl: yes I was assuming July. Worst case, we do business as usual, and it all goes ugly.
I do numbers related games on hobby. I frequently get disaster prep as a secondary role at places I work. But it’s not my job. It’s just adding the numbers the experts keep putting out, and applying them locally. That’s always step 1 so you know what you’re trying to avoid and when it’s not worth the price and effort.
Ella in New Mexico
@mrmoshpotato: accepted, esp after how Imm responded, but it didn’t come across that way to me.
@Immanentize: I understand, no worries.And FWIW I’ve already heard some of what Bernie has commented and he’s not minimizing anything so far.
I work in the healthcare field, soon to take a position as a family NP but I’m still picking up shifts in ICU when they’re short. We’re all trying to be calm, smart and prepared.
And I hear you about the difference between not panicking vs. minimizing. A few of my former nursing peers on Facebook who should know better are stuck in “the media just trying to panic us it’s not that bad” mode. (yes, they’re “conservatives”). They’re conflating smart, scientifically sound infectious disease actions with “unnecessary politics” and it’s been really frustrating having to correct their misinformation. One even posted a protest petition against our Democratic governor because she closed the State High School Basketball Championships to live audiences. Per NMDOH we have at least 6 confirmed or likely COVID cases right now of people in and around Albuquerque where it’s taking place. The parents are livid cuz God knows they’ve spent their whole lives waiting for Kobe 2.0 to shine as a senior and Goddamn it just won’t be the same on video feed! I reminded her of the recent times in which we literally had to conserve bags of IV fluids and ran out of basic, normally cheap blood pressure support medications for months because the factories in Puerto Rico shut down after Hurricane Maria. And how we regularly don’t have enough ventilators during harder flu seasons as it is, much less when EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL IN AMERICA WON’T EITHER.
Sorry if I jumped on you too harshly.
Chris Johnson
@germy: It’s fever swamp shit. I have a friend who is in some ways nice but is damn gullible and is one of the 4chan style alt-righters. Tom Cotton’s repeating stuff from those fever swamps about how it is actually a virus weapon China was developing, that escaped containment.
I’m not sure how much difference it would make at this stage, but never attribute to Dr. Evil what actually belongs to ‘idiot humans insisting on eating bats and civet cats as delicacies’.
Ruckus
@germy:
At least we know why trump chose dense. In an IQ scale of 1000 is average, both of them are in the group where if it wasn’t for autonomic functions they both would have keeled over long ago. BTW that is an IQ under this format of no more than double digits for either and dense is 10 points under trump.