About 45 minutes or so ago, depending on when I hit post, Chris Matthews has retired from MSNBC.
— Hardball (@hardball) March 3, 2020
It was so abrupt and sudden and, apparently, unexpected that when they came back from commercial, Chris Kornacki was sitting in front of the camera, looking like he was going to cry, and clearly at a loss for words. He took the show immediately back to another commercial so they could figure out what to do for the rest of the hour.
A lot of people are going to start to opine that Matthews was forced out because of his confusing Jamie Harrison who is running to unseat Senator Graham in South Carolina for Senator Scott, who is the junior senator from South Carolina. Or that his comparing Senator Sanders’ victory in the Nevada caucus to Hitler’s invasion and subsequent occupation of France by going around the gap in the Maginot Line. But the reality is that Laura Bassett’s courage was the coup de grâce.
At the end of last week, Bassett wrote an article and got it published that specifically recounted how Matthews had sexually harassed her on multiple occasions when she was booked on Hardball as a commenter. The safe play for Bassett was to continue to not publicly discuss it, even as many people knew that something had happened according to her recounting events in her article based on an earlier article about a not named cable news host who had harassed her.
In 2017, I wrote about a cable news host being gross and inappropriate with me. I was afraid to name him at the time. I'm not anymore; it was Chris Matthews! And his sexist exchange with Warren this week inspired me to revisit those moments and name him https://t.co/oBWXXJDPhR
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) February 28, 2020
Here is Bassett’s response to his resignation:
Guessing this is not a retirement. https://t.co/pbwDM2UtUG
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) March 3, 2020
No, I have more to say than that. Since calling out Chris Matthews, this week has been really rough. The harassment has been invasive, cruel and personal. And it’s all worth it if he will never have the platform to demean and objectify us again. https://t.co/YS1FxW25zt
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) March 3, 2020
And here response to his on air apology that was not specifically addressed to her:
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) March 3, 2020
Open thread.
schrodingers_cat
When is Biden’s Texas rally? Beto is going to be there too. Its like the reunion of the D candidates of 2020.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
Opening the way for Baud!/Matthews 2020?
A Ghost To Most
Initial guess is Toad gets Tweety’s slot, and Wallace gets two hours.
PsiFighter37
Good. Sounds like he was forced out for being a terrible person, although his political advice has been garbage for years and was stuck in the Reagan-Tip O’Neill partnership.
Baud
Baud!/Matthews 2020!: Never ok. I’m sorry!
Shalimar
Oh good. From the way Kornacki was just talking when i tuned in, I thought Matthews was dead. Retirement is much better.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@schrodingers_cat:
Where’s Bernie? //
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost To Most: My understanding is they want to expand Wallace to two hours and just get rid of hardball completely, as well as MTP Daily. Todd has, apparently, thrown a fit over that.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Not in Selma.
West of the Rockies
An inartful, old-school, sexist, but progressive voice is muffled. Wish it had been Limbaugh or Levin or Hannity or Coulter or Savage or Malkin or Carlson or–the list goes on–instead, but c’est la vie.
lamh36
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@A Ghost To Most: I thought I had read they were already gonna sideline the toad to increase NW’s slot. I guess I’m not the only one who switches it off when she hands off to the goatee of misplaced self-satisfaction
dmsilev
Long overdue.
And even if he wasn’t a serial sexual harasser, his views on politics were stuck on some weird idealized version of 1985 and it’s not like that offers much useful insight on today.
hells littlest angel
America: Bye, Felicia.
Chris Matthews: What? Who’s Felicia? I don’t understand. What the heck are you talking about with this Felicia stuff? When I worked for Tip O’Neill people didn’t say things like that.
Roger Moore
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
He did say the D candidates, not the non-Democrats running for the Democratic nomination.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT (already) but.. /sigh/ Chris Hayes just said some horseshit about “the centrist democrats whose top goal is to stop Bernie Sanders”
No, my sweet summer in Parkslope child, our top goal is to beat Donald trump, our second to make McConnell minority leader
?BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: The politics practiced by Tip and Ronnie are as dead as they are.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: Oh, we’re excluding Leap Year Democrats(LYD)?
Elizabelle
It is tragedy to hold on way too long.
Learn it the hard way, hardball.
Morzer
@Adam L Silverman: I’d be tempted to tell Tuck Chodd that both sides do it when it comes to his impending cancellation.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought our second goal was to send Mitch back to Kentucky.
Martin
My guess is that the Scott and Nevada were the result of a distracted and upset Matthews knowing the Basset piece was coming out. There’s no way that got published without he and MSNBC being notified ahead of time.
West of the Rockies
@hells littlest angel:
Some people really don’t see how vile and corrosive the conservatives of America have become. Maybe they see it but can’t quite believe it? Matthews did seem sometimes clueless.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: 8:30 eastern.
hilts
Hallefuckinglujah!!!
Chris Matthews being swept into the trash receptacle of history is a fantastic way to start the week.
Time to start popping some champagne corks!
Happy Motherfucking Schadenfreude Bitches!!
Musical Tribute to Chris Matthews being shitcanned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_37WNrX3Hw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12R4FzIhdoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMVjToYOjbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWyYn0E4Ys
dmsilev
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The reality of politics in the Reagan/O’Neil era are also somewhat different than how Matthews chose to remember it.
Chyron HR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Don’t those foolish centrist Democrats know you don’t need to beat your opponent in the primary, just show up at the convention with a third of the delegates and order the rest of the party to kneel before
ZodBernie?janesays
@A Ghost To Most:
Griffin has apparently been talking to Shepard Smith as well. His non-compete expires soon and he wants back on the air.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
an old soldier who never served and never got over his boomer guilt about it
I’m blanking on the name of the razor-wielding NYT book reviewer who said Matthews’ magnum dopus on Kennedy and Nixon was like B+ paper by a college sophomore. He seethed about it for a week.
BBA
Looking forward to criminal charges.
Morzer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Moscow, surely.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@hilts: Two songs with George Harrison, I like it.
Martin
@schrodingers_cat: Rally happening right now.
Texas is gettable. I know Adam probably strenuously disagrees with me on this, but Trump is only +3 in head to heads with Bloomberg, Biden, and Bernie.
If there’s a shift of turnout to women, younger voters, Texas could at least fall in the ‘too early to call’ category. Trump won it by 800K votes, which sounds like a lot, but Clinton won IL and MA by over 1M, NY by 1.7M, and CA by 4.2M. For the GOP’s anchor, and the 2nd largest state, that’s a gettable margin.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@janesays: Shep would be good addition.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh man, Hayes and his show are stinking it up hard tonight
PsiFighter37
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: FWIW, these so-called ‘moderates’ in the Democratic primary have been running on a far more liberal platform than Obama did in 2008. Maybe some credit where credit is due – now, if Biden gets in and takes some liberal-oriented executive action, it will be viewed as ‘moderate’.
Good shifting on the Overton Window, IMO – and maybe the only that Wilmer deserves any credit for.
SiubhanDuinne
Digby says it was a “dignified, classy sign-off.”
Really? I sure don’t see it that way. As Adam points out in the OT, Tweety just made the announcement and then up and left. Leaving the last-minute substitute host and presumably banks of directors and producers and crew to figure out a show on the fly. That’s fucking irresponsible and unprofessional.
I’ve never liked Matthews, and I’m sure my personal bias is speaking here, but I thought his departure — although for once he didn’t yell and spit everywhere — was a big drama queen “fuck you” to the colleagues he claimed to love so much.
Good riddance, Tweety. Go write a bunch of books I don’t plan to read.
Martin
@janesays: If Shep gets back on air before someone like Maxwell, I’m going to be pissed.
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: Did you see my comment response to you in the Israeli election thread?
Martin
@?BillinGlendaleCA: No he wouldn’t. A latina host would be a good addition.
Us white guys gotta learn when to hang it up. Hang it up Shep. You did fine, you got enough to retire, there are enough white guys on TV as it is.
lamh36
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Like I said…MSNBC decided to go all on softening coverage of Bernie.
Chris Hayes essentially has either Bernie or Micheal Moore on like once a freakn’ week…smh
guachi
@Martin: If TX isn’t gettable at the statewide level, at least we might be able to squeeze another Congressional seat or two or maybe make the ones that flipped blue in 2018 easier to keep. IIRC, only two flipped and a few were really close.
Every little bit helps.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Texas has closed more voting precincts/sites since 2016 than every other state combined. The vast majority in districts that are overwhelmingly African American, LatinX, and/or include colleges and universities.
danielx
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
how so?
Adam L Silverman
@guachi: The action in Texas is in flipping at least one chamber in the state legislature, expanding the number of Democrats elected to municipal positions, and picking up a few more House seats. The bonus would be MJ Hegar defeating Senator Cornyn, but that’s a heavy lift.
lamh36
Uh…what?
Lis Smith responding to CNN reporte on Buttgieg flyin to Dallas to endourse Biden…
But….uh
Ugh…lord Biden please don’t add Liz azz to the stafff…ya dont’ need her
ETA: and then she doubled down?
<blockquote>@Lis_Smith
If you are mad about this tweet- @petebuttigieg didn’t go to endorse at the big Dallas rally as CNN reported.
We set up an OTR separately and CNN got it wrong. At some point, media outlets should acknowledge when they get it wrong. </blockquote>
this chick is cray cray!
Martin
@SiubhanDuinne: I would like to say, I’ve never seen Warren or Klobouchar behave in a way that I thought was bitchy but what Matthews did was bitchy.
Grow the fuck up, Chris. Your stunt didn’t hurt the management, it hurt the staff.
Kathleen
@hilts: I wish AMessNBC would go down in flames with him.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
Adam, I saw your comment. I didn’t respond because I didn’t think there was much to add.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: She is the worst. I felt unclean after reading the NY Magazine profile on her – a profile in privilege and in failing upwards in Democratic campaign.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I know, but Trump didn’t do great in 2016, and TX cities have been bluing up which aren’t suffering from the usual electoral bullshit.
I don’t think we have a great chance, but if you wanted to blow through some Bloomberg cash, forcing the GOP to fight for TX and its downtickets would be worth doing.
gene108
@PsiFighter37:
I wouldn’t give Bernie that much credit. The Democrats started drifting left during the Obama administration for various reasons.
He got candidate Clinton to raise her minimum wage offer from $12/hr to $15/hr.
I think Occupy Wall Street did more to get Democrats attention they needed to be aware they needed to move left.
different-church-lady
With all the news flying about today I wandered over to DKos to see how “The Great Plot Against The Only Viable Nominee” was playing there, and I’m greeted with this:
Kos comments, “And … Biden beat Bernie? Wow.”
lamh36
“Outside of the South”….so uh…Black voters right…
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: that whole panel was dizzying. Bernie surrogate’s insistent that only Bernie can do it was never challenged. I felt like everyone was walking on eggshells while Chris was being his Bernie supporter self. I can see Lovette’s frustration. Although, I think he’s Bernie curious these days. Either that or the Crooked Media gang doesn’t want to offend Bernie’s crazies. They critique every democrat, including Obama, but they never say anything about Bernie. He’s gonna be our Trump, isn’t he?
different-church-lady
@lamh36: That quote is from 2016, right?
West of the Cascades
@Adam L Silverman: I have to assume lawsuits are underway? This seems a clear Equal Protection violation, not to mention the Voting Rights Act. The Guardian had an eye-opening article on this today but didn’t mention legal challenges. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/02/texas-polling-sites-closures-voting
Jeffro
Weinstein: convicted
Stone: convicted, sentenced
Tweety: resigning
We’re on a roll, America!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gene108:
Did she? My recollection is that she stuck to 12 at the national level and supported local movements toward fifteen? I know he got her to waffle on TPP.
I think the shock of trump moved people left on some issues– like health care, they didn’t know what they’d got till it was (almost ) gone– and immigration (if not all the way to the Bernie left) and not enough on others, i.e. the judiciary, which from what I can see is still barely discussed. How are there not big No More Kavanaugh signs or such like at all D rallies?
Mary G
He should have been fired when the remark about bringing a Bill Cosby pill to use on Hillary was revealed. Better late than never, though. Flouncing off in a huff is typical.
different-church-lady
@Jeffro: Eyes on the prize.
janesays
@Martin: I’m sorry… Maxwell? I honestly have no idea who that is.
SiubhanDuinne
@Martin:
Exactly so.
PsiFighter37
@Martin: I don’t think Biden wins Texas, but I do think that we pick a few House seats in Texas (TX has something like 6 or 7 Republican incumbents retiring, and Will Hurd’s seat will definitely ours for the taking).
JMG
You know, I retired five years ago. I know I was lucky that I was financially able to do so, but it’s the greatest. I don’t get why the same talking heads I saw in 1982 hang on until they’re blown out with dynamite. I was in journalism (sports division) and I know I wouldn’t be able to do the gig on a daily basis without repeating myself ad nauseum. Like Chris, and Gloria Borger, and David Gergen and the rest of them. Why do they keep doing it?
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: No worries. Just wanted to make sure you saw it since the thread appears to be dead.
jl
“Compliments on a woman’s appearance some men, including me, might have once incorrectly thought were okay were never okay. Certainly not today. For making such comments in the past, I’m sorry.”
That was Matthews’ apology? I wonder what Mathews’ idea of a ‘complement’ Is. For some reason I doubt it is ‘nice hairdo’ or ‘you’re looking rested and ready to go today’, or anything even close.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: I’m listening not watching, but Hayes framed it as an “Establishment vs Bernie” discussion from the start, Reiner is trying to be unifying, the once- Bernie-curious O’Bros have a policy of promoting unity, and that Bernie-bot is just awful. Nasty comment about Biden’s mental acuity, interrupting and shouting, un-challenged on her highly dubious claims about Bernie changing the turn out models, etc.
Is there really no one in the Bernie campaign who sees how the cult-like, obnoxious behavior of their surrogates plays with people who aren’t true believers?
Mary G
@lamh36
@PsiFighter37:
Lis Smith was the worst thing about Pete’s campaign and the fact that he was successful beyond his wildest dreams means she’ll be around forever is freaking depressing.
Adam L Silverman
@West of the Cascades: One would hope.
janesays
@lamh36: She’s not disputing the claim that Buttigieg is endorsing Biden, she’s disputing the claim that he will be at Biden’s rally tonight. Buttigieg just gave his endorsement a little more than an hour ago at small gathering somewhere in Texas. But it wasn’t a big rally.
PsiFighter37
@Mary G: Pete didn’t win – so it’s another loss for her, in my book. If she reppears, I wouldn’t be shocked: privileged white girl who probably cruised through Dartmouth with barely a passing average continues to fail upwards thanks to being born into a politically-connected family.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mary G:
good lord, I’d actually forgotten that part– I hope people are tweeting that at all the “Oh, my friend Chris…” tweets from people I like and respect
mad citizen
Goodbye Tweety, go have a beer with Bill O Reilly. I tried to paste a picture of a smashed Tweety figure, but alas that didn’t work so I just will say: thanks to the Jackalteriat for teaching me such a great nickname for this POS.
trnc
I’m glad that Matthews is the hell outta there.
Watching Anderson Cooper interview both Sanders and Biden, and JFC, these guys are not only not getting any younger – their age seems to be accelerating. Biden seriously looks like he’s aged 15 years since 2016.
lamh36
@janesays: This is what she’s nitpicking on. THAT’S what she’s stickling on? Still makes her seem cray cray to me.
I sure hope Biden folks ain’t planning on adding her crazy azz to the team
The bigger news is that Beto is endorsing…NOT Pete. Beto’s the BIG get in Texas…smh
Lapassionara
I will not miss Chris Matthews. He talked over his guests; he was hyper most of the time; and he said weird and inappropriate comments when it was his turn to talk.
i do not know why he did not leave years ago.
Mary G
@lamh36
@PsiFighter37:
Lis Smith was the worst thing about Pete’s campaign and the fact that he was successful beyond his wildest dreams means she’ll be around forever is freaking depressing.
Kent
He was actually Tip O’Neal’s chief of staff so not surprising.
gene108
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Cut our losses and move on?
Republicans have been focusing on the judiciary since Nixon, when they saw what the Warren court did to this country. The religious right, especially, zeroed in on the courts and when Reagan merged them into the Republican Party, Republican voters were also taught to look at the courts.
I think it took Moscow Mitch’s abuse of the Senate rules to get Democrats to begin waking up.
Amir Khalid
It’s a pity they can’t all be Walter Cronkite, who kept his integrity and the public’s respect throughout his career and even in retirement.
JanieM
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Born in 1945, not a boomer.
/boomer pedant
A Ghost To Most
@Adam L Silverman: Nicolle deserves 2 hours; Toad deserves none for the collection of fascist-adjacent tools he digs up.
Martin
@janesays: Zerlina Maxwell
She’s over at SiriusXM. Is a guest on MSNBC quite a lot. She’s very good.
Roger Moore
@gene108:
I think Republican intransigence has been the biggest thing. Since WWII, the basic policy approach of moderate Democrats has been to compromise with the people on their right and drag the liberal Democrats along with the claim that half a loaf is better than none. It made some sense from a political standpoint; a policy that won with bipartisan support was unlikely to be thrown out after the next election, even if it wasn’t everything the Democrats wanted. The Obama era proved this approach is no longer viable, since there are no longer any moderate Republicans to produce bipartisan compromises. That leaves nobody for the moderate Democrats to negotiate with except liberal Democrats, which has resulted in them swinging to the left.
chris
Rachel might be interesting, she called out NBC management on her show a while ago.
zhena gogolia
@jl:
Here’s a good compilation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNlKd_EmEYU
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: She thinks Trump is going to make a “mincemeat” out of Biden. This is the problem with cult-like movements. Bernie doesn’t know how to take criticism. Biden is used to being challenged and criticized. He’d probably laugh in Trump’s face and mock him and yell “malarky” every time Trump says something silly. Also, why attack Biden on mental acuity when Trump is out there. He’s going to face a guy who talks nonsense all the time and who can’t even remember his children’s names. But sure, let’s eat our own.
janesays
@JanieM: Just barely… had he been born 15 days later, he would have been a Boomer.
Steeplejack
Okay, let’s all take a few minutes to breathe into a paper bag and calm down. Matthews’s departure was not a sudden surprise and a “fuck you” to all his colleagues. He was clearly reading from a teleprompter, and they did a standard fade to black at the end of his announcement. So it was planned and known to that extent.
I didn’t see him storm off the set, as some have said, but maybe that’s because I don’t have the special MSNBC Platinum Club feed. Would love for someone to post the video of that, if it exists.
Yes, Steve Kornacki was visibly shaken. They probably told him to stand by in readiness and that Matthews would be making an announcement but didn’t tell him the details. The “deal,” whatever it was, possibly could have been finalized only at the last minute. Kornacki was still shaken and almost in tears when he closed the show. Clearly Matthews is something of a mentor or role model to him.
And making the announcement at the top of the show was the appropriate spot. Matthews was absent from the Nevada caucus coverage over the weekend, and I think he was not on Hardball a couple of days last week (if it wasn’t preëmpted by primary coverage). With the media storm building around him, it would have been ridiculous for him to come back and do a “regular” show without addressing it but then do his announcement at the end.
Yes, it’s a messy, unexpected situation, but let’s try to stick to the facts as we know them (and as they become available).
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t want to be the white guy who presumes to speak for black people, but I am just fucking gobsmacked at the way this old asshole and his asshole supporters are erasing the largest turn-out of African-American voters yet, and we’re all just like, yeah, that’s how he rolls
janesays
@Martin: Oh, yeah, she’s great. I’ve never heard her called just by her last name, that’s why I was confused.
Martin
@JanieM: That’s okay. Most people who are labelled as millennials aren’t millennials.
Speaking of boomers, if the transmission projections are correct for Covid, and the mortality rates in the US match elsewhere, Trump is likely to lose about 3 percentage points over 2016, assuming those cross tabs also hold up.
So there’s our first direct causative relationship between Covid and the election, morbid as it may be. Maybe we should be thankful for Nate rather than me doing that work.
lamh36
@PsiFighter37:
@Mary G:
Like I said, the bigger news is Beto endorsing Biden. HE’S the big get in Texas…not pete.
That’s why Lis is being petty about it.
But Symone Sanders co-signing (or in this case seeming to co-sign by directing folks to Smiths first tweet) it is what worries me since I think that could me they plan to incorporate Lis into the team…bleh
JanieM
@janesays: Brilliant google-fu, I wish I had thought of that.
Anya
Am I the only one who was a tad underwhelmed by Buttigieg’s Biden endorsement? The Biden team is so bad at stagecraft. Why was it so lowkey? And then Biden proceeded to get lost in his grief. I just felt so sad for him.
Kent
In Bernie math they only count 3/5ths so he’s still fine. It was even in the Constitution.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya:
attack Biden’s mental state while hiding Bernie’s medical records, something else he’s getting away with. With trump, Rick Wilson talks about Fear Of Mean Tweets, FOMT. I think we’re seeing the same thing with bernie’s raging twitter trolls
lamh36
SMH…I mean…
Kent
Like I said, in Bernie math they only count 3/5ths if they are south of the Mason-Dixon line. It’s in the Constitution.
TS (the original)
@JMG:
As did I – cannot imagine a better life.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Declaration of national emergency followed by martial law to enforce mandatory quarantines and no travel/no public congregating orders and the indefinite postponement of the election until after the epidemic is brought under control at some indeterminate future time.
Adam L Silverman
@Anya: Actually Biden’s remarks were wonderful. What you saw as being lost in his grief was him explaining, in his emotional and empathetic way, that he sees a lot of Beau Biden in Buttigieg.
Morzer
@lamh36: Jill Stein must be wondering what she has to do to get a sweet Bernie Bucks gig.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sanders has always erased black people from his “working class” narrative. He’s like the MSM. Working-class just means white people. I wish someone who’s a high profile sets him straight.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
This is the worst Hayes show I have ever seen. It’s like a mirror image of the Bill Maher show where he lets some ideological right-winger shout down all the other guests. This woman is unhinged.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: Smart people running that campaign, as always. Jeff ‘Comic Book Guy’ Weaver still can’t buy a clue with all of Wilmer’s cash.
lamh36
@Steeplejack: bah…ur no fun…LOL.
But yeah ya right!
Kent
@Anya:@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sanders has always erased black people from his “working class” narrative. He’s like the MSM. Working-class just means white people. I wish someone who’s a high profile sets him straight.
And “female” jobs like retail clerks and home health aids aren’t “working class” either.
peej01
@Lapassionara: Exactly. I could never understand why he had guests on because he would never let them finish a thought or a sentence. He was unwatchable.
Biff Baxter
And now Kamala will endorse.
Baud
@Biff Baxter: Wow. Sweet!
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know – I think Congress would sue over that. We can do vote by mail nationally. Enough states do it now for anyone, and every state has it for some voters.
Once the election goes back on, voters are going to be pissed about politicizing it and they’ll blame the GOP for defending that. Yes, it keeps them in office a bit longer, but that’s a hell of reckoning coming. And there’s no way USSC sides with Trump even in its current makeup.
I mean, if NYC only had to delay their election by 2 weeks due to 9/11, there’s no excuse to honor a move like that. If the nation can’t pull off a vote by mail plan in 8 months, then we deserve to die from a virus and turn into a dictatorship.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
It still amazes me that people can simultaneously talk about the importance of winning over white working class voters and deny the importance of race in politics.
laura
@Anya: his ideal of working class is white joe six pack, hard hat, NRA lifetime member. Misogynoir is strong in Bernie and his many bros IMHO.
Martin
@Biff Baxter: I think she might wait rather than cut off Warren’s hopes further. We’ll know Warren’s fate in about 48 hours.
hueyplong
I really don’t care how Matthews left, just glad he did.
Good riddance.
Hope to be typing the same about Trump.
Baud
The Reddit Bros have really gotten into Dick Van Dyke.
James E Powell
@gene108:
The #1 factor in the Democratic Party “moving left” is that almost all the right-wing Democrats quit or lost to Republicans and are no longer around to drag the rest of us down.
lamh36
One shouldn’t speculate but…
I was sayig to someone this past weekend…if/when Harris does endorse, it’ll likely be after Cali votes and we see where Liz lands.
I suspect Kamala is just the type of Dem who supports other women Dems…so she wouldn’t want to step on Liz before Liz is ready or not.
Still, ya never know.
Or maybe … the Congresswoman for California’s 43rd congressional district would like a workd
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Congress doesn’t have standing. And a national emergency declaration provides any president with exceedingly broad powers. And the Roberts’ Court has been exceedingly reluctant to push back on those declarations when made by a Republican president.
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
Aren’t you always the one who says don’t borrow problems from the future?
Kent
I think a lot of older Dems are still just in denial about the cultural shifts that have taken place in this country. They have vague vestigial memories of gauzy sepia-toned FDR and Woody Guthrie days when white working class men came out in mass for Democrats. And they just can’t believe that with a little more persuasion they can’t get those folks back.
Sanders does it every damn day when he pushes his narrative that it is all about economics and the 1%. Black folks know better. The 1% isn’t always the one holding them back. More often than not its the asshole foreman in a 4×4 pickup truck with the MAGA sticker on the back who promoted his buddies to your job instead.
West of the Rockies
@janesays:
A distinction without much difference.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud:
You mean they like him because he endorsed Bernie? He’s one BernieBro even I can’t carry a grudge against. It pleases me that he’s still with us.
topclimber
@Adam L Silverman: Might be a few states reluctant to call out the National Guard though.
Roger Moore
@Kent:
I think you’re missing my point. People acknowledge that working class whites constitute a separate voting block from working class blacks or working class Hispanics, but they try to ignore race as a dominant factor in politics. If everything is really about economics rather than race, why is there such a difference in voting patterns between working class whites and working class minorities?
James E Powell
@gene108:
This is only anecdotal, but Kavanaugh is the one thing that every white female with college I know brings up as a complaint about Trump. For a few, it is the only thing they ever mention.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes. I’ve seen a couple of front page posts there about him.
lamh36
@lamh36:
Oops forgot to add the tweet.
Like I said to someone in the past, if Meena Harris goes quiet on her twitter acount…you can bet that Kamala is about to endorse. She’s the MOST active on SM an consistently posts on the Harris family
JMG
Here in Mass. one of the Congressional districts had a special election on 9/11/2001 the day itself. Turnout was like 33 percent higher than usual. Crises make people want to have their voices heard.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: Sure they do. They’re all on the ballot. Their election is also being delayed.
And because state elections are also on the ballot, I’m guessing every state will still have a vote on that day, further undermining the case for delaying national elections.
So yes, he may have those powers, but it’d be a politically disastrous move for him and for the GOP.
Brachiator
@lamh36:
Very interesting point. If this is the case, it is both thoughtful and politically astute.
MisterForkbeard
@laura: “Misogynoir” sounds like an excellent sci-fi villain or a really un-compelling movie genre.
Mike in NC
Fuck Tweety
patrick II
One of Jon Daly’s best moments was when he interviewed Mathews on his “Life’s a Campaign: What Politics Has Taught Me About Friendship, Rivalry, Reputation, and Success” book tour. Mathews’ basic theme was that you should learn to lie to your friends and competitors like politicians do. Daly eviscerated him as Mathews sat there confused on why Daly was being so mean to him and how anyone could think that the endorsement of lying is a bad idea.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
via Cole’s twitter feed (cause he hates us and doesn’t post here):
Ring any bells? And of course, the story Bernie was mad about was about…. Russia helping his campaign.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Somewhere, Tip and The Gipper are crying.
Suzanne
Some talking head on CNN just said something like “We’ll see if Biden can carry the ball across the finish line,” and I don’t think I can survive this mixed-metaphor stupidity until November. AAAAAAHHHHHHH.
delk
@Baud: my husband started his career as an actuary in 87. Biden’s brother was working at the same firm and they were all in for Joe’s first presidential run. My husband’s first big work experience was doing an actuarial work up on Dick Van Dyke.
Baud
@Suzanne:
I just hope Biden doesn’t spike the baseball if he does well tomorrow.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: I’ll see them Rob Petrie and raise them Rob’s boss
He could always bust me up with a “Shut up, Mel!”
But I hope it doesn’t make things awkward when they get together with Mel Brooks for ice cream and Jeopardy
hueyplong
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: “Somewhere, Tip and The Gipper are crying.”
I think I know where that somewhere is.
lamh36
@Brachiator:
TBQH, I think Kamala is more considerate than others have been of her. So yeah, I don’t see her endorsing BEFORE the Cali votes are counted.
But if Biden manages to beat Liz and lose to Bernie, OR, Liz beats Biden but behind Bernie, and Liz doesn’t drop out…then I can see Kamala endorsing Joe.
Course I also suspect that SOME, not all, but SOME, of the Warren folks will likely treat it as her trying to push Liz out and ignoring that consideration.
I have no insde info though, but I def could see Harris waiting for the final tally.
We’ll see after tomorrow of course
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I wish Betty White had endorsed Warren.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Most of the baseball and football metaphors sail right over my head. So mix away.
Kent
No, I agree with your point entirely. It’s about race. I just didn’t come out and say it like I meant.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I would like to see Biden take the wicket over the goal line.
Peale
@Suzanne: when he wins, he’ll totally spike the dunk.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: spike a wicket? that’s not cricket
Mary G
This speech by a young Latina Texas state rep got me more fired up for Biden:
“Donald Trump! You’re fired!!” makes a nice call and response campaign cheer.
E.
@zhena gogolia: holy shit. I only made it through two. How did he stay on the air?????
Suzanne
@Kent:
The terrible truth is that, of course, it’s both. The MAGAts and racists are the useful idiots for the MOTUs.
Kent
Elections are entirely state affairs. There is nothing in the Constitution about the Federal government superseding state election laws. This isn’t a “Commerce Clause” or 14th Amendment equal protection issue.
How does the Supreme Court stop all the blue states from going ahead and having their elections?
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Suzanne: “we’ll see if Biden can hit a home run over the goal posts.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Rachel Maddow posited that Amy’s endorsement is her “fuck me? fuck you!” response to Bernie campaigning in St Paul on the eve of Super Tuesday. If so, I like her even more.
sdhays
@Baud: What if it’s sticky?
hilts
Wow, on the same day Chris Matthews gets kicked to the curb Hank and Steve make their debut on Better Call Saul. Sweet!
kindness
What’s the over/under for Matthews going on Fox?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
AK: “Time for America to join hands instead of pointing fingers”
crossed out in red, “even if little birdies land on them”
Gravenstone
I know we all realize that Trump is a blithering idiot, but he’s apparently calling for the ‘impeachment’ of both Klobuchar and Buttigieg! Their apparent crime? The ‘quid pro quo’ of endorsing Biden. The boy done lost the last vestiges of his syphilis riddled mind…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@kindness: Better bet is RT.
Suzanne
I’m in my hotel room, away from Mr. Suzanne and the Spawns and SuzMom and the doggos and the kittehs , watching Amy K. I wasn’t going to vote get her, but she sure is reminding me why I like her. I really, really, REALLY want to vote for a woman for president again soon.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Tune in tonight as we examine if Biden can slam dunk a 3-point shot and dance in the end zone, after stealing all the signals for the Astros using a keyhole spy satellite.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud:Well he was the man of the match in South Carolina.
schrodingers_cat
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: He can hit sixers!
Bobby Thomson
@Martin: Yes, she is. She would be a fantastic addition.
lamh36
schrodingers_cat
Kamala Harris is endorsing Biden in Oakland tomorrow.
James E Powell
@kindness:
I feel like there’s got to be a non-compete.
Bobby Thomson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: A special kind of petty that I know and respect. Some of my favorite moments in the debates were her calling people out on their bullshit. She would have made a great journalist.
sdhays
@Kent: This was my thought. There would need to be quite a build up to make such a move even half-credible, and the states themselves would be involved and having agency to make their own preparations as well. If everything is a such a shit-show that an emergency declaration seems even vaguely plausible, Dump’s polling is going to be in the toilet, and it’s going to be like September 2008 – just get this fucker and his shitty toadies OUT!
Anya
@Gravenstone: he’s deliberately trying to misuse the word “impeachment” to make it meaningless.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Oooooof!
Kattails
Have only skimmed the comments, but just checked my email to find that Emily’s List has endorsed Warren for president. Feels a bit late, but perhaps being driven by events, as they’ve only made one other presidential endorsement, and that was for Hillary. I’ll take it.
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: Well, that makes up my mind. I was leaning Biden, but now I’m sure.
Martin
@E.: Gotta make sure the white working class have a voice on the left. Put a female POC in his slot.
Another Scott
(via nycsouthpaw)
Eyes on the prizes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Anya
I’ve listened to so many Bernie speeches and they are all the same. I’ve never heard him mention electing Dem senate, house or state legislators. Every single candidate mentions that but not Bernie. I am always confused by that.
eddie blake
@Anya:
because he’s not a democrat
SATSQ
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat:
Wow. I was hoping for it. Kind of expecting it, but still…. Wow
sdhays
@Kattails: Warren made a catastrophic mistake waiting so long before challenging Bernie directly. I really like Warren, but if you’re going to make the case that he’s an incompetent do-nothing, you need to start earlier than a few days before Super Tuesday.
I would love to see her on a debate stage with Dump, but I don’t think it’s going to happen now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: yet again, how does “Look out the window, Mitch” not get thrown back at him in every interview?
@Kattails:
waiting until she was the only woman* left in the primary?
*only woman who is not batshit crazy
hitchhiker
@Amir Khalid:
Cronkite retired at 65, maybe because it mandatory at his network then.
Matthews is 10 yrs older than that right now. LONG past time. My rule is that at every stage of a career, you should be finding and mentoring people capable of replacing you, and then getting out of the way so they can — not squatting on a job for decades as if there’s some magic in your ass alone, that it can fill that chair.
Martin
@zhena gogolia: Janelle is having none of that. The others are more practiced at laughing off that kind of treatment, Janelle is more practiced at calling it out, but she wasn’t in the right setting to do it.
Mary G
Suzanne
Oh, Beto. You’re still so hot.
hitchhiker
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
I missed the ceremony when Michael Moore was put in charge of deciding who is representative of the party and who isn’t.
Did he get a crown and a sash?
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m a bit overwhelmed by this:
A Guide to Emergency Powers and Their Use (Brennan Center for Justice, 2019)
What parts of it would be used to declare an indefinite postponement of elections?
How would it override the Constitutional requirements?
Article II Section 1 is a little fuzzier about Presidential elections, but it is clear that the president’s term ends in 4 years, i.e. Jan 2021 and after that, without an election there would be no POTUS, by my reading. (Perhaps there is an amendment that I’m missing?)
Gravenstone
@Anya: I think it’s his normal projection of everything bad said about him onto whoever is pissing him off in the moment. You can clearly see how it eats at him, being impeached.
Anya
@Adam L Silverman: I didn’t mean it to sound like a criticism. I really felt sad for him. His grief for his son is very evident.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as ever, I may be seeing what I want to see, but I thought Biden looked and sounded pretty good tonight
different-church-lady
Gee, Bernie, maybe spending four year shitting all over the organization everyone who could have given you support belongs to might not have been the brightest move!
Martin
@sdhays: Yeah, she’s had some missteps. I still voted for her, maybe she’ll pull off a good turnout tomorrow and get back in this. First ad of hers I’ve seen just tonight. Never seen a Biden ad. A few Bernie ones. One Pete one. No Amy ones. A zillion Bloomberg ones – and they’re good ads too.
But with everyone endorsing Biden, the party is coalescing on their choice. I respect that.
Nicole
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Okay, that asterisk made me laugh. Thank you; I needed that tonight.
Anya
Is Beto O’Rourke the establishment because he’s just endorsing Joe Biden?
Jeffro
Looks like the Democratic Justice League has woken up and realized the need to band together against the forces of evil before it’s too late. I’ll take it. Just let everyone else do the talking, Joe, ok? ;)
November’s a long way away, but wow…this could have some impact down the road here in the Fro household too. Fingers crossed, knock on wood, and let’s go get ’em, Dems!
Suzanne
@Anya: To be fair, Beto is a superdelegate. That’s fairly establishment. Even though he wore a dress. And looked hot.
different-church-lady
@Suzanne: You know who else wore a dress? Ghandi.
Adam L Silverman
@topclimber: I’ve already gamed this out as a thought exercise for my boss and for a retired general officer I consult for. And that was exactly the point I made. And that I’m not sure the Joint Chiefs would go along with using the Active and Reserve components for something like this either.
Suzanne
@hitchhiker: The worst part of that statement is the racism. The second-worst part is that it’s dumb. Literally none of the states are good representations of the country as a whole. But somehow I don’t think he was talking about good ‘ol regional differences.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He doesn’t need a dem congress or Dem governors, his young worriers will make McConnell backdown.
This is what he envisions his revolution.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Kent: Trying make red states not vote due to “emergencies” could backfire in hilarious ways for Trump (If it doesn’t immediately plunge us into a civil war).
If red states don’t nominate electors because of the crisis by December 14th (which is presided by Pence), there is a chance that nobody will get the majority of all electoral votes, which means that the election of the next president goes to…. The house…
Amusing, but civil war would be the more probable outcome
[Edit: I think that the republican party deciding not holding elections is a stupid and dangerous idea, and buck Trump on this, is by far the most probable outcome]
Kent
The general election ballots all have a bazillion different races and ballot measures on them, all the way down to local judges and mayors. Is SCOTUS going to cancel every damn one of them? Or just say that the top line on the ballot doesn’t count, even though they were printed a month ago.
I don’t see how they do it, short of something like a nuclear holocaust.
danielx
@Adam L Silverman:
you know too much…
MisterForkbeard
@Anya: My Bernie friends tell me that they’re all “establishment lapdogs” who are “giving the middle finger to young people and anyone who want real (not fake) change”.
I’m real tempted to ask them why only Bernie-friendly politicians are allowed to have opinions.
Morzer
@Suzanne: Beto’s the Frock ‘n’ Roll Democrat.
Anya
@Suzanne: Is he still in congress? He can’t be a pledged delegate if he’s not in the house, right?
sdhays
@Martin: If I didn’t consider Bernie to be such a non-option and his supporters so obnoxious and untrustworthy, I might still consider voting for Warren, but at this point, I don’t want a dramatic convention. I want Bernie defeated by the voters before the convention.
different-church-lady
@Morzer: OK, fine, you win this one.
Another Scott
@different-church-lady:
But did he wear a bunny suit??!
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: That one mixed American football, Canadian football, or even Rugby football with track and field.
zhena gogolia
@E.:
Yeah, I never watched him but those bits with Erin Burnett and Brennan are so bad.
Kent
Except that the House gets one vote per state, not one vote per representative. So the GOP would still win and it is the last thing you should wish for. It’s called a Contingent Election: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election
BroD
@peej01: “He was unwatchable” which is why I never did.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: The President’s powers, any president’s powers, during a declared state of national emergency are the type of thing that would send AG Barr to the hospital with an erection that lasted longer than 4 hours!
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/
Read the whole thing.
Martin
@Bill Arnold: Oh, right, there is a procedure for this.
Barring that, it seems to me the interpretation is that on inauguration day the Presidency and Vice Presidency would be vacant and the rules of succession would kick in and the Speaker of the House would become president.
And it does seem that if the blue states had their elections and the red states didn’t, then only the blue states would send electors, and the Democrat would be chosen per the procedure.
Adam L Silverman
@Suzanne: Official travel? Or have your family preemptively quarantined you?
Anya
@MisterForkbeard: I had two Bernie or Bust friends who didn’t vote 2016 and they are both Warren bros now. One of them is so sorry about his earlier stand that I think he either volunteered or donated for so many 2018 campaigns. Thankfully their lack of vote didn’t make a difference because they’re both from New York but still they regret their stupidity and I love them for it.
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: He’ll be dragged from the White House if he tries it.
Ken
(Deleted – Martin at 217 got there first.)
(By the way, how do we delete comments? I tried deleting all text but the comment was still there.)
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: Read this:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/
Adam L Silverman
@danielx: I have already activated my exfil plan!
Another Scott
@Martin:
History.House.Gov reminds us of other skulduggery:
(Emphasis added.)
Yay?
:-/
It’s much, much, much, better to win by a convincing margin so that we don’t have to worry about such things again. Of course.
[eta:] Oh, on the topic of having the election – of course we’re going to have the election.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
@Adam L Silverman: I just did read the whole thing. Scary stuff about shutting down the internet and deploying troops inside the US. But they didn’t do any analysis of canceling state elections. I’d like to see some serious legal minds mull that one over before I start wringing my hands over that one. Would they cancel all elections everywhere in the US for every state, local, and federal office, as well as all the school bond elections, school boards, and that sort of thing? Or would they just demand that election officials in every jurisdiction take the president line off the ballot and let the rest proceed as normal. Which would obviously undercut the entire rationale in the first place.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott:
Say, three million votes, perhaps?
Kent
Those were all the illegal aliens voting in CA so they don’t count.
You have to win by 3 million votes in real states like Texas.
WaterGirl
@Ken: You cannot delete your own comments.
You could, however, delete everything that was in the comment and replace it with “please delete me”. Any one of us who stumbled upon that would surely Trash your comment for you.
Another Scott
@different-church-lady: More. Much, much more.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
My latest hobbyhorse: We need to talk more about the stupidity of Bernie Sanders and his campaign.
Kent
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m starting to smell the flop sweat coming from the Sanders campaign. It is amazing how fast this race has evolved in the past 48 hours.
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: How do we know it’s not vaccines that are causing the Corona virus? Huh? Answer that!
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
@Kent: Oof. missed that particular twist of the election of the president.
The election procedure of the US constitution started out as a horrible kluge from the beginning (It was designed that way so the the founders could go back to their original colonies and not get mobbed in the streets), and we are REALLY paying for it in the modern times.
Finally, if it comes down to that, especially since conservative states realize that it would lock them into power (unitary executive baby!) beyond any reasonable estimate of demographic change. Plus changing rules to depress non-christian nationalist power, while punishing non-politically-compliant states, the last cobweb-like barriers for not establishing a white christian authoritarian ethno-state would dissolve, and I really don’t want to be in that future.
Martin
@Another Scott: My point is that the winner of the election is who the House of Representatives say it is. They certify the election and they investigate any shenanigans.
What’s more, I’m 100% confident that Trump would be impeached again by the House within 72 hours of cancelling the election, and GOP senators would be really challenged to defend that given that a few of them would be accused of avoiding their own re-election by defending that.
This idea is electoral suicide unless the plan was to never have another election, and there aren’t enough secret service to maintain that plan for long.
Bobby Thomson
@Baud: Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
different-church-lady
Loomis is not handling this day well.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: There was a recent DHS sponsored war game/table top exercise about hostile foreign actor interference in the 2020 election. They instructed the Red Team/Opposing Forces that they couldn’t actually hack the election. So the guys roleplaying the bad guys, who were from a white hat hacking firm in Boston, hacked everything else in the US. Created so much chaos within the game that the person playing the president in the scenario had to declare martial law and cancelled the election.
Here’s the link to the after action report.
Operation-Blackout-Wrap-Up-Report-November-2019.pdf
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: Just take down Instagram alone and there will be panic in the streets.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What does it say about our country that these people are making winning arguments and a large segment of our fellow citizens are trusting them with their lives?
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: Same with GrubHub.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Dear Next Person To Interview Bernie
Please ask him why he thinks Donald trump is promoting pro-Bernie conspiracy theories?
different-church-lady
@Adam L Silverman: “Granpa Colby, is it true there was once a time when people could eat without using a smart phone?”
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Dear Next Person to Interview the President: Please ask him to define coup.
KTHANXBYE!
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
BERNIE: “Because they are staging a coup against me!”
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: Yes, but they had to use combs to eat their salads.
Another Scott
CalculatedRisk: A Few Comments on Covid-19 Non-Medical Policies:
A good read, and sensible recommendations as always. Plus, there’s some bonus history about the 1918 flu and the plague of 1900 – 1904 in San Francisco.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
Except that as I and others have pointed out upstream, if the election goes to the House then it is not a House vote that determines the winner. It is the winner of a special “Contingent Election” in which each state delegation in the House gets just one vote. I haven’t done the math, but I suspect there are more red states with GOP majorities in the House than blue states.
Bobby Thomson
@different-church-lady: 30 years.
different-church-lady
@Another Scott: Look, it’s March. Shouldn’t we have moved on to COVID-20 by now?
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Don’t be silly. Chris Hayes is not going to ask Bernie that.
Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]
I think there have been many (unstable) dictators that have come to power with those exact conditions. Some culturally-connected fail-son comes to power due to a couple of factors that seem to attract each other. First, rampaging narcissism, second, significant initial riches, third, elite acceptance and tolerance, finally, the subconscious knowledge that they have profoundly fucked up and if he EVER gets off the tiger it will devour them. Many countries have fallen from people like this (Louis the 16th for starters).
Bobby Thomson
@different-church-lady: understatement.
A few weeks ago he was writing posts like “What are you guys going to do when Bernie gets the nomination?” He and others put an awful lot of stock in some polls showing a close race in SC (which were probably not accurate to begin with) and then refused to see the bricks falling into place.
Today he’s lashing out at everyone and saying their behavior is going to make him vote for Sanders, as though he hasn’t been shilling for him for six years.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
I hate that The Atlantic piece (I mean, it’s good, but scary), but read, again.
I’m still a little fuzzy on the suspend the Constitution parts (e.g. cancel constitutionally mandated elections) work in practice if it’s an obvious power grab, considering that many people in government have sworn to uphold the Constitution. But it’s a plausible path towards civil war.
Another Scott
@Kent: You can bet that if it goes to the House, then there are going to be all kinds of protests about various state results, and something like the 1877 fiasco would be possible.
The House was 182D/103R, the Democrat Tilden was one vote shy in the Electoral College, but Hayes “won”. Hayes “won” because of the backroom deals to end Reconstruction in exchange for the Presidency.
Don’t assume that the results would follow the nominal baseline count (even the one vote per state stuff). If it gets to the House, all bets are off – because so much is at stake and so many players want to sway the result.
(I’m reminded that Gore was doomed in Florida once the results were close enough, because the GOP Florida legislature ultimately had the power to decide who won and they weren’t going to give that power up.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Martin
Ah, per Brian Williams, Obama made the call after SC results that Biden was the candidate. I’m guessing his endorsement was the stick.
So, not DNC. Just Obama pulling a Dr Manhattan-esque move.
Martin
@Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]: No I take that. But it’s not the 16th century. Adam is describing a situation where Trump ahead of the election cancels it in some way. The entire US population will know of this fact within about 3 hours. Every member of Congress will be asked their position on this within 2 hours. Every governor. Every Secretary of State. Every Attorney General. It will be called a coup by some CNN host and some Fox guest within 6 hours.
I’m not saying Trump wouldn’t try it, but we’re threading the world’s smallest needle incredibly quickly to actually get it to succeed.
James E Powell
@Martin:
Obama made a call? And he told Brian Williams and no one else?
Another Scott
@Martin:
I guess Liz hasn’t gotten the call yet. ;-) She’s live in LA.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
@Martin: Wait…are you discounting the magical powers of Tom Perez to strategically plot a path forward for the Democratic Party?
I’m not sure how I feel about that.
Kent
@Another Scott: If Liz stays in the race does that help Sanders or Biden more? I’m not actually sure.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this first paragraph is pretty much what I suspected:
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
That PDF description of that exercise was fun, but didn’t have anything exotic. (Probably a good thing.) I kept wanting some augmented plays.
COVID-19 is an enormous wildcard. If case numbers continue to double every 7 days, the country (and world) will be entering a full widespread pandemic in June, with associated economic collapse. (GHG emissions way way down, yay in the fullness of time.!)
An effective antiviral regime, massively produced and distributed (production facilities and supply lines willing) to deal with the worst cases would be one way out of this, with a vaccine being produced and distributed at the tail end (2021 early/mid year perhaps, shortcuts taken.)
different-church-lady
@Bobby Thomson: “I’m going to vote for someone becuse you suck” is some kinda big brain stuff on that there fella, yessirree.
L85NJGT
@Martin:
I’m fully expecting the Baud!2020 campaign suspension (and Baud’s Biden endorsement), will end with Baud dropping to his\her knees, raising her\his fists to the sky, and yelling Ooooh-BAh-MA!!!!!
dww44
@Bobby Thomson:Yep, I weighed into the comments about a week or so ago (something I almost never do over there for fear of getting lambasted and piled on) which is exactly what happened when I posited that Bernie as the Dem nominee would get defeated in the general at a level like McGovern in 72. While I was not trying to make an apples to apples comparison, the first person to hit me with both barrels was Loomis. Much to the effect that i was stupid and didn’t know anything. Others weighed in in support of his diatribe at me and I left the place and haven’t returned since. Life is too short to be sneered at and denigrated. Come to think of it, that’s sorta like a Bernie bro, no?
Raven Onthill
My exasperated response to Bernie stans who want Warren to drop out before super Tuesday.
Another Scott
@Raven Onthill: +1
Thanks very much!
Cheers,
Scott.
Lyrebird
@Raven Onthill:
1. What you wrote is gorgeous and so true!
2. I have been thinking about a similar question to yours:
I do think that if Biden becomes the nominee, if he can give Sen. Warren even half of the props he has given to Buttigieg, he will go a long way to heal what he helped harm back when he treated her so patronizingly in the past. (re: consumer protection) I hope Warren gets a bunch more delegates tomorrow so she can get some well-deserved credit!!! ..and get her voice and her work in the platform.
Jak
The last straw for Mathews may have been his exclusion from MSNBC coverage of Super Tuesday coverage.
Dupe1970
@Martin: Still not sure of that. Lived here all my life and there is still resistance to Dems. But if we actually do get Texas’ electoral votes that almost assuredly means we retake the Texas House which is much more important.