Please stop telling my preferred candidate to drop out when only three states have voted.
Thank you.
*** Update ***
Two minutes after posting this, I learn that Buttigieg is suspending his campaign. He was not my preferred candidate, but this seems very newsworthy.
Pete Buttigieg is heading back to South Bend and will give a speech tonight suspending his campaign, according to an aide.
His campaign just advised that he’ll deliver remarks at 830 p.m EST. pic.twitter.com/dXvvnVlhaP
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) March 1, 2020
Medium Cool with BGinCHI – Noir!
Baud
Four states.
JPL
Pete’s out. Sorry
Anya
New York Times is reporting that Pete Buttigieg is dropping out.
Baud
@JPL: Oh wow. He didn’t sound like he was dropping out yesterday.
Percysowner
Oh, yes! Heck, stop telling me that I should not vote early for Warren because it is throwing my vote away and I should hold it to either boost Bernie or stop him. If the choice is Biden or Bernie, I still think Warren is better and I am voting for her. If You’re Voting Bernie in Washington, Vote Early. If You’re Voting Warren, Consider Waiting.
I’ll vote for our nominee in the General come Hell or High Water, but I’m voting for the best candidate in the Primary. And if Warren drops out before Ohio votes, well, she still has my support.
Ohio Mom
[email protected]: Isn’t John’s preferred candidate Warren? No need to apologize.
Mayor Pete has many years ahead of him. I think he should move to a state more open to voting for him than Indiana, and get some more experience. That worked for Hillary, moving to a Blue State and running for the Senate. And Hoosiers haven’t shown they deserve him.
dmsilev
@Baud: Since Iowans can’t count, Iowa doesn’t count. Sorry, those are the rules.
delk
As a middle aged gay man, I’m a bit saddened, but at the same time I’m so proud of the guy for making it so far.
And, let’s give him a hand for reading the writing on the wall and stepping down.
guachi
He REALLY doesn’t want Sanders to win.
It must be really hard to work so hard, actually win Iowa and then drop out a few weeks later.
Baud
Wonder if Pete will endorse.
@dmsilev: Ok by me.
Anya
@Baud: According to my Bernie Bro TL, the establishment is forcing the men out to help Biden, while encouraging Warren Klobuchar to stay in the race to minimize Bernie’s wins.
guachi
Too bad Bloomberg’s ego is so large he won’t drop out.
oldster
Dear Liz,
Please persist!
I probably won’t get to vote for you in the general (unless you’re the VP — okay by me!), but I sure want to have the chance to vote for you in the primary.
And, Pete, I appreciate your dropping. You were never my guy. But you’ve got a bright future, and maybe after you grow up a bit you can run again. You’re by no means the worst of the bunch.
Baud
@Anya: Almost true. I would guess that after Biden’s win, Pete’s donors moved over to Biden so Pete realized he didn’t have a path forward.
hells littlest angel
Good for Buttigieg. For that, eventually, I may stop calling him Mayo Pete.
PsiFighter37
When is the last time the winner of the Iowa caucuses dropped out less than a month later? I also wonder if Buttigieg endorses Biden on the spot, or if he waits.
Suzanne
This bums me out. We just keep narrowing down to the OWGs.
Peale
@guachi: he won Iowa by basically camping out in the state. Unfortunately, he got no spike from his win. He can’t live everywhere and meet everyone.
frosty
@Anya: That’s some Establishment, that Democratic Establishment.
PsiFighter37
While I understand the sentiment, Cole, I do hope you realize that if Warren fails to accrue meaningful delegates and loses her home state, that it might be the time to call it curtains on her campaign. The only reason I would support her staying in is if she uses her continued presence to kneecap Wilmer.
Baud
Pete probably won’t endorse Warren after she hit him on his donors, but in another world, I could see that as being a smart political move for him.
Jewish Steel
I wonder if Biden didn’t whisper “cabinet position” in Pete’s ear.
peej01
@Peale: It also helped that his major competitors were stuck in DC for the impeachment trial.
I’m a Warren supporter, but because our primary isn’t until April 28th, I”m just hoping she’s still in the race. I’m blue no matter who (hopefully not Bloomberg or Gabbard), but the Bernie Bros on Twitter are arrogant little bastards, aren’t they?
ETA: given a choice between Biden and Sanders, I’ll pick Biden, but I’m not really enthusiastic about either of them.
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37: 1992. That was a special case; Iowa was essentially uncontested because Iowa Senator Tom Harkin was running. His candidacy didn’t go very far after that though and according to Wiki he dropped out in early March.
Immanentize
things are in motion. How very interesting. I heard on the crystal set that Clyburn’s grandson was pro-Pete B. May you live in….
Baud
@frosty:
“I learned it from watching you, dad.”
Starfish
@Anya: I don’t see a lot of Klobuchar voters defecting to Bernie, not that there are that many Klobuchar voters.
debbie
@Peale:
That says more about Iowa than it does about Pete. Iowa may be first, but I don’t think it’s ever provided much momentum.
satby
@Suzanne: really? Because the last few primary threads you all have been whinging about the old white guys and how badly we need newer, more progressive blood; and no one on this blog would even give a token nod to the very successful millennial who was in third place in delegates. He was disappeared.
@hells littlest angel: YEAH, fuck you for that.
Adam L Silverman
@Anya:
Another unfortunate transporter accident brought to you by Emory Erickson.
Immanentize
@delk: I so agree with you. It really is amazing, neh?
Mike in NC
Just saw an ad asking “Why won’t Obama endorse Biden?” from some lame pro-Trump PAC. So brain dead it might have been Fat Bastard’s idea.
PsiFighter37
@Jewish Steel: The only position that would make marginal sense, IMO, might be Veteran’s Affairs. Even so, I think he doesn’t have enough experience yet and would need to be the deputy / somewhere further down the food chain first.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@Anya: Huh? Klobuchar supporter here and I don’t see that any of her support comes from those who would otherwise vote for BS. I certainly wouldn’t. Right now, I’m planning to vote for Biden this Tuesday as I don’t see Amy getting to 15% here and my Daddy always told me not to throw my vote away.
Immanentize
@Anya: Those men are brain damaged by DSB.
PsiFighter37
@Baud: Asshole is an existential threat to a party he does not even belong to. I am glad Biden is starting to make this point more forcefully, which is that Wilmer is not a Democrat.
KD
I think Pete will endorse Warren possibly tomorrow and I think she will embrace Medicare for all who want it. They have similar ideas about the filibuster which is so important, and he was looking at her with a lot of respect in the last debate.
Anne Laurie
Props to Mayor Pete. He’s smart enough to game it out, and IMO this is probably the best time to leave graciously. He’s accrued enough votes to raise his national profile, and to ensure that he’ll be offered a good seat in the upcoming (please, Trickster God) Democratic administration. That gives him a springboard to get out of Indiana, so in two or six or eight years he & his family can move to a more congenial state…
But, as people are saying, it can’t have been easy to get this far and then step back. He deserves credit for that.
peej01
@satby: Pete wasn’t disappeared by the MSM (who seemed to really want him) like Warren was. I didn’t support Mayor Pete because his resume is thin to say the least, and his positions were quite malleable.
Baud
@White & Gold Purgatorian: Don’t worry. When Klo drops out, it’ll also be viewed as an Establishment plot against Bernie.
Immanentize
@Peale: He got a very decent spike in N.H. I was surprised how well he did in that crazy town.
Chyron HR
@PsiFighter37:
Yes, if Warren comes up empty TWO DAYS FROM NOW, she should drop out. Demanding she do it today is premature and, if she’s going to lose big anyway, pointless.
satby
@Baud: TBH, I never thought he’d get this far and I know his fundraising dropped in favor of Biden. But he’s a Democrat through and through, so now that Biden is doing better it is a good time to step away. Now someone ask Klobucher WTF she’s waiting for.
Immanentize
@PsiFighter37: Losing her home state is the most meaningless bullshit in all of electioneering.
johnnybuck
Pete wasn’t my second, third or fourth choice, but he is a Democrat and ran a hell of a race. Sometimes knowing when you’re beat and getting out is the most honorable thing you can do. I expect he has a future in Democratic politics, so good for him.
Baud
@satby: I agree. He was very impressive. I think Klo is waiting for MN on Tuesday.
WaterGirl
Anybody who thinks Buttigieg is Republican-lite or not a team player for the Dems is dead wrong.
He is dropping out to give Biden and Warren a chance – so we don’t have to choose between the billionaire who thinks he can buy the election and the guy who wants to burn it all down.
He’s got his eye on the prize for the Democrats, and for anyone who wants to keep our democracy intact.
Good for Buttigieg. Respect.
Jewish Steel
@PsiFighter37: I think he’s a pretty ambitious dude (just a sense I get). I doubt a deputy position would be of much interest.
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: He could be an assistant or undersecretary of Defense or equivalent for the Army, as well as one of the appointed deputy or assistant directors within the intelligence community. He’s got a small amount of operational experience and he has management experience from being mayor of South Bend. And those assistant and undersecretaries tend to be paired with a good crew of SESes and general officers/flag officers.
debbie
@Immanentize:
If you’re referring to NPR’s interview of Clyburn and his grandson, the loving back and forth between them was lovely to hear.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: Asshole’s gonna Asshole, what can I say?
Regarding Pete though – I can see why he gets out now, especially if he wants a position in a Biden administration. He might also think that Sanders won’t win or is a bad choice and this is his best step forward, considering he’s very unlikely to win.
That said, I have no business telling Warren people to vote for Biden or vice versa. I’m doing my own strategic voting – I like Warren the most, but was considering voting for Biden in CA to get him over the 15% line. I think he’s got that covered now, so voting for Warren is where I’m at.
I do expect her to drop out some time in March though – which makes me a bit sad :(
Steeplejack
@Percysowner:
I’m voting for Warren on Tuesday (in Virginia), and damn the consequences. #BrokenGlass in November, of course.
debbie
@Baud:
“Yep, welcome into our big tent, you snake in the grass.”
Baud
Pete may be gone, but now all of America has learned to spell … B-U-T-T-I-G-I-E-G!
Anne Laurie
If it helps your mood — she got a head start on that last night.
satby
@peej01: no, his positions weren’t mallable, and that you would say that shows you didn’t investigate further than twitter.
Omnes Omnibus
I did expect anyone to drop out before Tuesday. Buttigieg’s backers must have bolted.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard: I agree. Sad. Not looking forward to that day. I wish I could say I saw an avenue for her, but I just don’t.
Immanentize
@Chyron HR:
this right there is puro bullshit. Why should she? Because you want he to? Write a fucking email to her campaign.
She is smarter than you.
JMS
If only Bernie and Biden are left when the show comes to Pa I’m not voting in the primary. I did it in 04 (the doctor was out) and I can do it again.
Mary G
Respect for Pete. Takes a lot to let your pride go, and I agree with AL that he’ll deserve and get a good job in the next administration.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: Ditto. Class move even if self interest is part of it. And why shouldn’t it be?
schrodingers_cat
I applaud this move. Smart and principled. Unlike the Russian stooge that media wants to anoint as our nominee. As a not always Pete B fan he surprised me in a good way twice, winning the Iowa caucuses and now by dropping out to help coalesce the No BS vote.
Warren can stay but her campaign is basically done. I would be surprised if Super Tuesday tilts the race in her favor.
HalfAssedHomesteader
If it comes down to Bernie or Biden… does the Constitution say the candidates have to be alive to win? Well does it?
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@frosty: “I’m not a member of an organized political party, I’m a Democrat.”
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Peale: well he did more than win Iowa. He basically tied for first in NH too. Kinda weird that Pete was the first to drop out when he’s arguably finished tied for first in two of the four primaries when the only person to do better than him is Bernie.
Immanentize
@debbie: I am. I agree. My grandfather was like Clyburn. Disagreed very softly but supported every crazy idea I had. U miss that kind of love….
Baud
hey, y’all, Tulsi’s still in it!
debbie
@Baud:
If that’s so, she isn’t the team player Pete is.
Mai naem mobile
For some odd reason I am pretty sure Pete won’t endorse Amy haha.
Barbara
@Steeplejack: I voted early, for Biden, not simply to be strategic, but partly for that as well.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: She is probably bilking HSS (RSS’s American cousin).
WaterGirl
@JMS: I hope you will stop and consider a few things before you stay home:
– who would choose the better VP?
– who would have coattails in the general election?
– who would make better choices for cabinet positions?
And then vote for the person who comes out on the better end of those questions.
Baud
@debbie: It’s her state, and they’ve been early voting since before Iowa.
Geoboy
@guachi: @guachi: “Too bad Bloomberg’s ego is so large he won’t drop out.” I think y ou’re misspelling bank account.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: Pete and his husband Chasten had breakfast this morning in Plains with Jimmy and Roslyn Carter (who they met previously on a Carter Habitat project here, I think). That may also have been a conversation about the future. And though his fundraising was down, he still got mega millions in the last few weeks. So more I think of what @WaterGirl: said.
But, I am biased. IN primary isn’t until May, and I probably won’t even have choices by then 😄
Immanentize
Ask yourself:. If you are now saying that Warren should drop out, did you also say Biden should drop out? If yes, please eat my shit for six months.
WaterGirl
@debbie: She isn’t. Staying in for MN is for ego, and she is damaging Biden and Warren’s prospects by staying in when she is going nowhere.
No respect for Klobuchar on this.
guachi
@WaterGirl: He does get lots of respect from me, too. It can’t have been easy to drop out BEFORE Super Tuesday. But this shows, to me, he’s party first. My main complaint with Buttigieg is I didn’t see him as President, not that I don’t see him as doing SOMETHING useful politically.
Humdog
@debbie: I think Amy will stay in in hopes to keep Bernie from winning MN. She is a team player but her team is Democrat.
Baud
@Humdog: Right. MN went big for Bernie in 2016.
Jeffro
This is awesome news – all coming together nicely now, knock on wood. Twice.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
I did not know that.
Chyron HR
@guachi:
Maybe they can give him the DNC chair spot after this is all over.
Then in 4 years we can all complain that they need to throw him out because he’s fucking everything up.
Anne Laurie
@satby: I don’t blame you for being angry — we probably should’ve paid more positive attention to Pete earlier.
On the other hand, clearly Pete’s not going *away* right now, either. Depending on who he endorses, or which candidates make him an offer, things are very fluid right now!
Let’s see where things stand by the end of this week, okay?
(Heck, let’s see what he says at his 8:30pm press conference!)
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@peej01: Yeah I’ve never seen a candidate do that well in the first two primaries and be treated by the media as such an afterthought. It was weird.
Starfish
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: He relied on big donors that were going to switch to Biden, and that is what they did.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@delk: I have been very impressed with Pete’s skill (or perhaps native talent?) for political communication. He boils his statements down to the bare minimum of words. So many people have been asking why Elizabeth, with all her accomplishments, just has not caught on with voters so far and I think much of it has to do with her apparent inability to respond with less than about 500 words. Face it, most voters don’t want that much information. As George Wallace reportedly said, you have to put the hay down where the goats can reach it. Pete has the knack for that and he also doesn’t hesitate to go after his opponents. Sure, she went after Bloomberg hard, but she should have been targeting Bernie from day 1. Anyway, I hope Pete finds a path to future office because he has a lot of talent and we sure need younger folks on the national stage. Given where he lives, a cabinet office might be his best path.
Suzanne
I wasn’t supporting Mayor Pete this time, but I remember finding him very impressive the first time he crossed my radar at the DNC Future Forum when he was running for chair. I still find him impressive and I would have felt good about casting a vote for him in the general. I hope he has a long career in politics in front of him.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: I’ll also toss the reverse out there. If you were calling for Biden to drop out now are resisting calls for Warren to drop out….
I’ve been saying throughout that it is too soon to be dancing on anyone’s grave.
Baud
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: His early wins never translated into a significant bump in national polling, I think.
Immanentize
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Unlike Warren?
MP
@WaterGirl: Actually, the rumor is the Biden campaign would like her to stay in because it denies Bernie delegates. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know, but I could see the math making sense if you assumed some liberal/very liberal Minnesotans would back Kloubuchar over Sanders because she is their senator.
Baud
@Immanentize: She was erased too, but Pete did better in the first two contests.
FelonyGovt
Pete is a very bright young man and I think he has a great political future ahead of him. And he’s been an inspiration to many. Sadly, it does seem to be coming down to the old white men.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I never did, but I have trouble spelling my own name and it only has 4 letters.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree however math percentages is all. And we are idiots anyway when it comes to campaign strategy. So leave it to the campaigns, eh?
RinaX
I haven’t seen a lot of calls for Warren to drop, though I actively avoid pundits on both TV and Twitter. The only person I actively want gone is Bloomberg, so the wrong B dropped out, imo. He was never my choice, but Pete earned the right to compete on Tuesday. I’m genuinely angry that he is out before Bloomberg.
johnnybuck
@Chyron HR: It’s a Balloon Juice tradition.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Like I said, it is too early to be dancing on anyone’s grave.
WaterGirl
@MP: Yeah, see my comment at #83 after Baud mentioned that Bernie won big in MN in 2016. That makes me feel better about Amy staying in.
Baud
@RinaX: Super Tuesday is the first time Bloomberg will be on the ballot. I want him gone too, but it’s not realistic. Now, if he bombs on Tuesday and continues to stay in, then I’m not sure what happens next.
Mary G
debbie
@WaterGirl:
Even if she stays in, there’s a possibility she wouldn’t win her state. Her ego ought to be talking to her about that.
satby
@Starfish: he had lots of small donors too.
And let’s not forget Vermont Trump has a dark money PAC pumping his war chest.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: The most I can muster is a sad humph.
Skepticat
Took me by surprise, but I think it shows class, intelligence, and pragmatism. We haven’t heard the last of him, and I’m pleased by that. I’m a Warren supporter and thus disappointed she isn’t doing better (for which I generally blame the media—or lack thereof), but it’s blue no matter who. My degree of enthusiasm won’t show up in my vote.
oldgold
Good for Pete. This was the time to pull the plug.
Wednesday is when Amy and Liz will do the same.
jk
Buddha! Buddha! Buddha! Buddha!
Say it ain’t so Pete. While, I always thought Warren and Klobuchar were far better qualified than Mayor Pete, he’s clearly head and shoulders above Biden in terms of gravitas and intellect.
Immanentize
@Baud: He did. And he got tons of media love. Then the narrative turned to diversity (duh) and PB did not have the stroke on that demographic. In spite of Clyburn’s grandson’s best effort in SC. Yet he still managed fourth behind Steyer’s 2.5 million focussed effort. Amazing
A Ghost To Most
@JMS: If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice
/sonotarushfan
Please vote in the general.
Mary G
Skepticat
I second that emotion.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Immanentize: She got the same treatment.
gene108
@Baud:
Interesting strategy being deployed by Bernie, in the tweet.
He is the enemy of the party, whose nomination he seeks, and vows to destroy most of the party, if he wins.
I wonder how this will play out with the mysterious entity known as the Democratic Establishment?
TaMara (HFG)
@Steeplejack: This
Baud
@Mary G: A scholar and a gentleman.
ETA: Although more likely than not, those sources are random people on twitter.
White & Gold Purgatorian
@Baud:
And it will be.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus:
Baud!2020!?
PST
Like so many here, I didn’t view Pete as my choice, but I liked him well enough to be annoyed at cheap shots against him. It was fine, for example, for Klobuchar to contrast her experience, but when she repeatedly went for that “rather watch cartoons” BS that clearly misrepresented what he said she looked petty and malicious. She has been my favorite on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays (I admit to jumping around a lot) but this made me think less of her. Likewise, in the pundit universe, I quite like Joy Reid, but she always seemed to have knives out for Pete when talking to or about him. It might be unfair, but this always makes me remember elements of her LGBTQ history that I had otherwise consigned to the past.
Baud
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I plan to be cremated.
gene108
@delk:
As much as people are like “oh no, only old white guys left”, this election did make history, with Pete doing so well, and we still have two* women contending for President, which is the most, this far into a primary.
* Two’s not a lot, but progress is sometimes slow, but then will take off.
Edit: Democrats should be proud of the big tent they’ve built. Even though ignored, because of our fear of Trump’s re-election, this primary did break barriers and have a diverse field enter the race.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@satby: He’s obviously got a lot of cash, he had two spots on the local news here in LA. I also saw my first EW commercial last night.
satby
@Immanentize: Frank Bruni talked about this three days ago:
Worth reading even though it’s now moot.
Anya
@Baud: I am not Pete anti like the majority of the Juicers. I think he would’ve made a very successful DNC chair. He would’ve raised ton of cash and he’d be, and I hate to say it, a better spokesperson than Perez. My dad thinks he would’ve been the Ron Brown of the LGBT community. I am not motivated to google Brown but I understand he was the first AA to hold that position. Besides, Buttigieg is gifted and clearly has a bright future ahead of him. I am glad he made this decision. It’s clear he cares about the party and the state of our nation. Hopefully, he builds relationships with the base of the party.
WaterGirl
@debbie: Yeah, my thought is that with all the banked early votes, if she dropped out now she would have been able to say “just think how well I would have done if I had stayed in the race”.
But Baud said Bernie did really well there in 2016, and anything that stops Bernie is a good thing. IMO
Immanentize
@debbie: I do love you, but please explain why that matters at all? Sanders won Mass. In 2016. Did mass go for Trump?
JMG
He ran a good race, and had the good sense to know when he’d finished. That’s more than many candidates in any election can say.
Anne Laurie
For Warren, Biden, Bernie & Bloomberg, this is their last shot, because they’re OLD. Klobuchar doesn’t have that handicap, but she’s not got enough of a national base that she’s liable to get a second bite at this apple.
Pete can sit out the next eight years, if he wants to, and *still* be a young vibrant Presidential candidate. Not that I think he will, of course. But he’s obviously decided it’s better to take a break right now, at this ‘peak’, than to be remembered for “wasting everyone’s donations & energy” if he hangs on too long.
WaterGirl
@oldgold: Maybe so on Elizabeth, maybe not.
Yutsano
Aww nuts. He wasn’t my guy mostly because of the inexperience. But he definitely has a future somewhere in the Democratic world. And he should just try for something in Indiana. Hell he might even actually win!
WaterGirl
@jk: Pretty sure you think my dog is head and shoulders above Biden, but that doesn’t make it so.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Burn, baby, burn…
Brachiator
I was in the restroom at the movies when I heard that Mayor Pete had dropped out. Interesting.
A family member earlier had sent me an email saying that he was deciding between the 3 B’s as a Super Tuesday candidate. Another suggested that it might be time to pile on for Biden.
I’m still pondering my ballot.
WaterGirl
@Mary G: That was my first thought as well. Not just my first thought, but my gut, also.
Baud
@Anya: He probably could get the DNC chair next time, but he understandably may be looking for an even more high profile governmental position if the Dems win in November
eclare
@Mary G: That echoes his comments in the last debate regarding Sanders.
chopper
four states or not, there’s only been two primaries. and the first one was white as hell, and small.
Baud
@WaterGirl: Baud!/WaterGirl’s dog! 2020!
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
Gorka!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1_Rx_wpcG4
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Cocker Spaniels are really good dogs.
ant
Pete was my first choice.
The problem Pete had was too many people just didn’t think a Gay guy could win in November. Particularly blacks in the south. They’re understandably a cynical lot.
Warren has the same problem, because she’s female.
I like her a lot too.
Biden sounds like he is too old to me. Like age has effected his ability to speak and communicate clearly. Also, he’s been on the wrong side of a lot policy decisions over the years in my opinion. It doesn’t appear to me that he thinks they were mistakes either.
I prefer Bernie over Biden. They’re both too old for the job I think.
Anya
@White & Gold Purgatorian: Not because her support overlaps with Sanders, but according to Bernie Bros, the evil establishment wants her to stay to deny Bernie a win in Minnesota.
Apparently, we’re a country full of conspiracy theorists. Everything is a conspiracy.
Baud
Once again, guys, only Hillary Clinton was too old and decrepit to be president. It’s not an issue for anyone else.
Baud
@Anya: That’s not a conspiracy. That’s just smart politics.
satby
@Anya: as I have repeatedly stated and linked to, he had black support both in South Bend and elsewhere. But the memes started by Bernie supporters early and propagated relentlessly had an effect.
And Biden did seem to have a huge head start on that area. My ex-Black Panther mentor (now a 73 year old lady herself) was all in for Biden. Didn’t like either Harris or Booker, which surprised me.
debbie
@Immanentize:
I’m saying I think if she stays in, she’s doing it for herself, not to thwart BS. I’ve never gotten the feeling she would put her party’s interest above her own.
Baud
@satby: I didn’t know you were in the Black Panthers. That’s incredible.
jl
A lot of the recommendations/demands I’ve seen that this or that candidate drop out to do this or that for the primary race or for this or that candidate make a big assumption. The big assumption is that all these wise acres know who each candidate’s supporters will move to afterward. I don’t think anyone knows that very well.
For example I’ve read that there is a substantial movement between Sanders and Biden support among older working class people. And that notion is consistent with movements in the polls I’ve seen.
Seems nuts to political junkies and partisans. But if you’re a busy person who doesn’t follow things closely until a few days before you vote, you might just want to support the two candidates who have a reputation of a long history of supporting the working person.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: NikkiinGlendaleCA agrees.
germy
@Baud: I think it was her mentor who was in the Black Panthers. Maybe I’m misinterpreting.
zhena gogolia
@delk:
Yes, I really like him. He has a bright future (if we have any future at all, that is).
West of the Rockies
@Baud:
Tulsi: in it to win it!//
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@ant:
You know he has a life long stuttering issue that he’s mostly overcome?
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: She was in the SLA. satby is Patti Hearst. Oh fuck. I just doxxed her.
Ladyraxterinok
@dmsilev:
As I recall, political discussions on PBS continually denigrated Harkin because he was ‘too pro-union,’
I watched him because I moved from IA back to OK in 89 and really, really missed having him as a senator
Barbara
@WaterGirl: MN was a caucus state in 2016. Not clear it will be a repeat.
Anya
@Adam L Silverman: ha!
Anne Laurie
@Baud: Translation from the Bernie: “My internal polling sucks, my cultists are getting bored & distracted, and now the fekkin’ Democrats are insisting I should pitch in or go home. FML!!!”
jl
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m more concerned about Biden’s long rambling stories, and vague amorphous sales pitches based on his reputation than him stuttering. And, making up stuff, or at least telling tales that make it easy to accuse him of making up stuff.
satby
@Baud: 😃😅😂 No doofus, she was. I was her assistant at the community organizing non-profit I worked at in the 90s. She had mellowed a lot by then.
@Omnes Omnibus: oh my god I love you guys!
Kent
Is he really interested in military affairs? I get the impression that the military was more of a stepping stone and that he is more of a technocrat. He would be my pick for Secretary of Commerce, which oddly, is one of the more technologically-oriented departments in the Federal Government with NOAA, the Census, the Patent Office, NIST, Small Business Administration, etc.
chopper
@Baud:
man if only that guy had for the gop the sort of invective he reserves for the democratic party, maybe more dems would actually vote for him.
MattF
OT. Roger Stone, unhinged.
Immanentize
@Baud: unless you also have lady parts.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
I’ve watched 2 of the debates, and Joe’s not alone in doing that.
low-tech cyclist
I’m not a Pete fan, so I’m glad he dropped out. His positions have changed dramatically enough on some major issues just in the past year or so, that who knows what positions he’d hold a year from now?
But this move will surely score him some points with the Dem establishment types, who might be more inclined to support him in a future run. Even if he has to wait until 2028, he’d be only 46 then, which is still pretty young for a President.
Maybe he can hold a more significant office than mayor of South Bend between now and then.
Immanentize
@debbie: It may be that she believes she will have enough delegates at the end of the day to have a real effect on the party direction? I know her, but I am not her, so who knows. But why embrace attribution bias if you don’t need to?
Baud
@chopper:
I’ve noticed that Bernie never gets tagged with the “look forward, not back” criticism that gets levied against Biden, even though Bernie (unlike Warren) has never addressed the issue to my knowledge.
zhena gogolia
@chopper:
Yep.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: TANYA!
Kent
Not nuts at all. I expect that a lot of mainstream Democrats just want to see Trump defeated and know that none of the candidate’s lists of platforms and positions are ever going to pass through Congress unscathed. And are of the opinion that ANY Democratic administration is going to be far superior to ANY Republican administration.
While I personally have a lot of doubts about Bernie that I don’t have about any of the other candidates except Bloomberg. I will take any of them over Trump, or any other GOP candidate the party would put forward.
There are a lot of smart ideological people who know that the job of the next president is going to be 98% foreign affairs and executive branch management and only about 2% shepherding big legislation through Congress.
jl
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: “I’ve watched 2 of the debates, and Joe’s not alone in doing that.”
True. But neither of us is running for president right now. Not sure your comment is relevant.
Cacti
Things you will never hear Wilmer say:
“I’m an existential threat to the Donald Trump Administration.”
Anya
@Baud: I highly doubt some secret cabal met with Klobuchar and Warren and told them to stay in the race until the end of the Minnesota and Massachusetts primaries then sent a third set of emissaries to Pete Buttigieg and gave him an offer he can’t refuse.
Buttigieg seems to genuinely not be happy about Bernie’s politics or his attacks on the Dem Party so he might’ve made the decision by himself without anyone else telling him to drop off.
Betty Cracker
@jl: True. Here’s a Morning Consult poll of Buttigieg supporters’ 2nd choices.
21% say Sanders
19% say Biden
19% say Warren
17% say Bloomberg
It was taken right before the SC primary, so that could change things. Maybe Pete will endorse someone quickly, which could swing a few votes too. But assuming they all go to Biden might be a mistake.
Ken
Strange, I had a variation of this conversation at lunch. Except it was about baseball.
We were discussing how the commentators always have so many stats to share (“He’s 7 for 23 against left-handed batters on Tuesdays”). The stats aren’t all that interesting, and they sure don’t have anything to do with who wins, but they help fill up the time between pitches.
Likewise, the variety of early nominating contests gives everyone lots of stuff to argue about while we wait for the next one. You can even pick and choose which ones “really count”.
Anne Laurie
I can understand that. Both Harris & Booker are, I suspect, ‘good little Establishment kids’ by her standards. Biden’s an old white dude, but she may trust his previous conduct more than she does the younger candidates’ visions of the future.
(Not saying I agree, but I understand how she might be gaming this out.)
zhena gogolia
@MattF:
Wow.
germy
satby
Ok, this is funny:
As he formally suspended his campaign following a poor showing in South Carolina, Pete Buttigieg rued that his dreams of becoming President are rapidly slipping away.
“Sadly I may only have ten to twelve more shots at this thing at a conservative estimate.”
He lamented how quickly life can pass you by when you aspire to hold the biggest office in the land.
“I’ll probably be a Mayor again, sit in the Senate for a few terms, raise a bunch of kids and go through multiple marriages, and next thing you know I’ll only be a decade younger than the current frontrunners with just 3 or 4 chances left.”
Buttigieg said this run was a great educational experience, however, and that he hoped to learn even more from the other candidates in the race now that he was no longer competing with them.
“I guess I better get on that while they’re still with us.”
WaterGirl
@Baud: He just scratched 3 times to say “tell Baud I’m in!”
Anya
@MattF: wow. I wonder if this is the first time in his life he felt he had no control.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: They most certainly are.
jl
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: To be serious about it, Biden has sharpened and focused his talk lately, so I am more confident now that he can fix his rambling and vague sales pitch.
I think Biden started out with a very weak and misguided campaign theme. It’s a good sign that he can adjust.
PST
@satby:
A big surprise to me early in the campaign was when a couple of black friends really jumped on Booker and Harris (on different occasions) for criticism of Biden. And they both liked Harris, they just didn’t like anyone badmouthing Biden. I had not realized.
Sab
@satby: Thank you for your comments about Buttigieg over the course of this primary. Very clarifying for me.
Mary G
It gave me a happy little jolt to see Pete and Chasten referred to as “the Buttigiegs.” Tom Steyer, Amy Klobuchar, Liz Warren, Joe Biden, and Mike Bloomberg were all there. Bernie was not.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Obligatory.
WaterGirl
@debbie:
It’s possible that we’re both wrong, but I’m with you on that. I think the ugliness that came out from her with Pete revealed a lot about her character.
WaterGirl
@germy: I’ve got a million dollars that says Baud knows that. :-)
Anya
Ouch! Poor Chasten.
Chris Johnson
@MattF: Wow. That is a man who is trapped and guilty as fuck. They’ve got him dead to rights. He is frantic.
hells littlest angel
@satby: He seems like a nice man, but he had no policies beyond “we can’t do that” and on the inside he seems more of an old white man than lots of men who are old and white on the outside.
WaterGirl
@low-tech cyclist:
I’m pretty sure that’s not the case.
Kent
It is fucking insane that we are still taking about a 60-year old literacy campaign in a small Caribbean country like it has any relevance of any sort today. What about say the 1959 anti-malarial campaign in Nigeria. Should we spend a lot of time talking about that too?
Bernie spent the last 50 years doing lefty purity-posturing. None of which lead to anything productive. He is the political equivalent of the Che Guevara posters I would see scattered around college dorm rooms in the early 1980s that were always mixed in with the Grateful Dead posters and roach clips.
hells littlest angel
@Ken: My all-time favorite sportscaster color commentary: “If this team wants to be successful, they have to focus on winning.”
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker:
That’s a surprisingly even distribution. I find that super interesting.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
No you don’t. You’re not Bernie Sanders.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: I heart that whole album. Also,. Patti Smith:
Hey Joe
“Now here she is with a gun in her hand.”
WaterGirl
@germy:
I want to marry that comment.
Anya
@satby: I don’t watch Joy at all but I see her tweets. I don’t get the sense where her support is but if I were her I’d go easy on the criticism of Buttigieg considering her history.
Re: Harris, I think she lost a lot of support when she attacked Biden. It’s weird but a lot of older AA were not happy with that.
germy
@WaterGirl:
Then you can afford Warren’s tax increase!
Baud
@Kent: True. But in case I wasn’t clear, the “look forward, not back” idea refers to punishing Trump and his officials criminally for their crimes. Warren was strong on that (Kamala too), Biden not so much. But Bernie hasn’t been asked to take a position AFAIK.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Parasite is an apt descriptor for the Leap Year Democrat who lives off his host, the Democratic Party. While I am glad Parasite won the Oscar I don’t want the Parasite to win the Dem nomination.
WaterGirl
@satby: That was SO good.
germy
@WaterGirl: It’s a funny account. Lots of New York humor.
Baud
I have not seen Parasite, so no spoilers please.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: There are a number of people who have taken a strong dislike to candidates who exist only in their minds….
WaterGirl
@MattF: I have no context for that. Who was Stone meeting with?
Major Major Major Major
Anya
@Betty Cracker: How are any of Buttigieg supporters also Bernie supporters? This primary is wild. Pete Buttigieg has been making it clear that he is not a Bernie fan. He’s also attacked Bernie’s signature policies.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I haven’t seen it either. Parasite kills the host and no one lives happily ever after.
THE END.
jl
Off topic, but have to get his off my chest. I’m tired of doom and gloom about the coronavirus and bad mouthing and cynicism about voluntary seeming insignificant voluntary efforts like hand washing or contacting doctor at first sign of symptoms that indicate coronavirus.
Only reductions in transmission can prevent a hugely costly epidemic or local outbreaks. And as the prevalence of an infectious disease goes down, the value of measures that reduce transmission go up almost exponentially in preventing or delaying an outbreak.
If you believe in the butterfly effect, that one cough you do into your elbow as opposed to spewing out in front of you may save all humanity. Not all heroes wear capes, etc. etc.
So, sorry for bringing his up, but I got really pissed as some friends being cynical and all doom and gloom about the coronavirus situation.
And I heard the news rebroadcasting Trump’s comments that coronavirus wasn’t any different than common cold or seasonal flu. Hard to state how irresponsible those statement are. If Trump said 1 plus 1 equal three, would news outlets feel obligated to mention that Trump disagrees every time some arithmetic was required to report the news?
I guess since the Trumpsters have doubled down on it being no big deal or a hoax, I guess the corporate news feel that balance is needed there too. But it really pissed me off to hear Trump’s dangerous crap rebroadcast several times this morning. Why?
OK, rant over.
Edit: OK not quite over… individual modification of behavior played a big role in controlling the recent big Ebola epidemic, so what I say is not wishful thinkgin.
Kent
Is that national? Because if it is the say 2% of Democrats who were his supporters in South Carolina it is pretty irrelevant.
It honestly doesn’t surprise me, although listing 2nd choices when your 1st choice is still viable is a bit different than taking stock and making a choice when he is gone. But I suspect most Buttigieg supporters were behind him more for the tone and message and thinking he might actually be able to win, rather than the specific laundry list of proposals or his exact spot on the ideological spectrum.
debbie
@Immanentize:
It’s more than that. I have always had a visceral dislike of mean girls. Just leave me to my seething, please. 😉
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Damn twitter!
Major Major Major Major
I see what you did there…
MattF
@WaterGirl: Looks like a video of a deposition. I’ll see if there’s more information.
germy
@MattF: This is Roger facing off with his nemesis Klayman?
Sab
@Omnes Omnibus: But they aren’t very tall.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: That Tynan guy is pretty smart.
Cacti
It’s the mass executions that people are still talking about, comrade. Or rather, that Commissar Bernie is avoiding.
Zelma
I talked to my very progressive son who lives in VA about the primary. I think he may end up voting for Biden. He’s not happy about it, but he wants to win in November and he dislikes Bernie intensely. I don’t think Bernie is very popular among Democratic Congressional staffers. He has the reputation of being a horrible boss in addition to everything else, like attacking the Democratic Party whose nomination he is seeking.
My state doesn’t vote until June and we usually don’t matter. But maybe this year it will be different. I’m about to start looking for the Biden campaign here in NJ, if there is one. if not, maybe I’ll start one.<g>
Kent
Sorry, I missed the context. I thought it was in reference to decades old policy arguments. I’m honestly in favor of prosecuting every damn one of the bunch like it is the Nuremburg trials, and then pursue them for the next 40 years when they flee to Argentina or Turkey or wherever. But I’m also willing to go along with whatever happens to win the most votes between now and November and then saying “Fuck-it, gloves are off” come January 21.
But yes, in the sense that Sanders seems to skate along on pretty much every damn tough question, it’s time to start asking them.
DB11
@Betty Cracker: Wow — that’s a shockingly even split amongst 4 very different candidates.
Nelle
On a very nonpolitical note, I hope Buttigieg and his husband get the baby that they want and that they have a couple of years raising the little one, without the distraction of running the country.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I was not referring to the audience(live or televised), I was referring to the candidates.
TS (the original)
Will never understand why old white guys want the job. I’m younger than all of them & enjoying retirement time. The joy of time with a grandchild has no equal.
Presumably Biden came in because he thought Bernie was going to win (typical man, never gave the women a chance) and then the Billionaire came in because he didn’t like either Sanders or Biden.
If they’d all stayed at home, would have been a great primary.
MattF
@WaterGirl: Deposition in a Florida civil suit, it says here:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/28/roger-stone-florida-testimony-117859
Jeffro
Buttigieg, thinking:
1) Biden’s SoS in 2021
2) Harris’ Veep in 2024 and 2028
3) Run again w/ long resume’ in 2032, when he’s what, 50? 50! After all that he’ll still only be 50 😮
Jeffro
@Zelma: I think the VA primary results on Super Tuesday are going to surprise the pundits. Think SC redux
germy
@MattF: I’ve seen other clips. It got pretty nasty. Roger had to be held back by his lawyer.
MattF
@germy: Apparently.
Immanentize
@debbie: I respect seething. And try to steer clear when I observe it in action.
Apologies. [Backs away slowly]
🙏
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
His dad did sell cars.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: he’s okay.
Jinchi
Interesting. I would have thought BIden. But I think he clearly left the field in hopes of stalling Bernie’s campaign. He was polling well enough in California to push both Biden and Warren from just under the 15% limit for delegates, to just over. Although a lot of the California vote is already cast.
zhena gogolia
@jl:
I’m with you. I’ve never washed my hands so often or so long in my whole fucking life! I’m running out of soap! I’d better pace myself.
Kent
@Cacti: OK, fine. But still. Even that stuff is pretty insignificant. Pretty much anything to do with Cuba, pro or con, is ridiculously over-emphasized by both sides. For example, According to Wikipedia:
By contrast, in Guatemala, a similar sized country that was a US ally, supported by every US president except Carter, and recipient of US aid during the same time period as Cuba, we find:
I can’t stand Sanders personally. But I just want to stop hearing about Cuba like it has any relevance to anything. That he can’t seem to wash his hands of that stuff shows to me how bad and flawed of a politician he actually is. Are we going to get all over Biden for his votes to send military aid to Guatemala in the 1970s and early 80s?
TS (the original)
@Anya:
Maybe it relates to President Obama chose Biden
different-church-lady
Wasn’t it just a couple of weeks ago that Pete was going to be the nominee?
Immanentize
@Kent: Oh, now you want us to have perspective.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent:
He’ll just repeat his stump speech cause that’s all he’s got.
satby
@Anya: it’s from a satire site.
Baud
“You know who’s great at washing his hands? Joseph Stalin!”
satby
@hells littlest angel: another Twitter pundit. Gracias.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeffro:
I think there’s an OTC medicine for that.
The Lodger
@HalfAssedHomesteader: Ask Senator Mel Carnahan (D- and I do mean D-MO).
Lacuna Synecdoche
With (in non-committal alphabetical order) Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders all over the age of 75, I think it’s imperative for Warren and Klobuchar – the two youngest credible candidates left – to stay in the race until the convention, in case age and/or health problems catch up to those old guys on the campaign trail.
And can I just add, as a 55 year old Gen-X’er, I think it’s fucking crass, vulgar, and greedy for pre-boomers and boomers to keep hanging on to power instead of stepping aside to let younger generations lead.
I’m so sick of fucking boomers and war babies shitting up the country. It’s time to let younger pols come in and find new ways to fuck it all up.
Okay, well, that ended up somewhere other than I intended.
Puddinhead
@Baud:
they also viewed the large number of candidates as an establishment plot against Bernie. That is how serial conspiracy theorists work. Heads, it’s a conspiracy. Tails, it’s REALLY a conspiracy.
Anya
@satby: *sigh of relief
Baud
@Lacuna Synecdoche: Given that one of those geezers is being propped up by young people, what can you do?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
60 minutes is trying to give Gallagher a tongue bath tonight. Ugh.
Subsole
@Anya: We’re a country full of people who don’t want to think.
Conspiracy mongers mong excuses to not think.
And, y’know, testosterone cream made of soy at a 600% markup.
satby
@zhena gogolia: I know where you can get soap 😂😂😂
PJ
@different-church-lady: Didn’t you hear? After the first three contests, Sanders has this thing practically locked up. Why hasn’t Biden dropped out yet?
FelonyGovt
@Lacuna Synecdoche: Yeah, the field is way too old. But I’m getting really tired of the nasty and sweeping generalizations about boomers.
Kathleen
Looks like Biden & Pete talking about consolidation of support (this link links to MSNBC story)
https://twitter.com/brownsugar7878/status/1234281212988051463
Betty Cracker
That’s the truth right there.
Ohio Mom
Lacuna @250: Biden, Bernie and Bloomberg aren’t boomers, they’re too old. Warren is a boomer though.
germy
@satby: I hate to overgeneralize, but when it comes to entrepreneurship, it seems Democrats create and sell products that are helpful and useful, while Republicans create and sell products that are useless and/or often harmful (to people and the environment)
Subsole
I’d put Pete in charge of Bill Barr’s little committe to decide which rights are actually inalienable.
But I’m petty like that.
different-church-lady
So once again we’re going to have Bernie’s people kneecapping the “establishment” democrat going into the general, eh?
Kent
What Sanders is Stalin now?
The bulk of the foreign policy establishment and the wise old men of both parties came down in favor of all the anti-communist efforts and US support for horrible military regimes throughout Latin America in the 1960s to 1980s. Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Chile, etc. etc. It’s very long list of very horrible governments. By contrast, a few lefties like Sanders spend most of those decades on the other side.
They were pretty much all wrong on both sides, and the only country worth supporting during that time was probably Costa Rica. Biden and the rest of the foreign policy establishment in the 1970s and 1980s should answer for the regimes they did support. And Sanders should answer for his support of Castro. But it is all mostly old history on both sides.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@different-church-lady: Yes, it’s a leap year.
Subsole
@satby:
Curious. What was it about Kamala she didn’t like?
Baud
@Kent:
I thought this was viral. Sorry for the uncited reference.
Kent
Luckily you don’t have to worry about that here because Warren is the only boomer in the field. Biden, Sanders and Bloomberg are all TOO OLD to be boomers.
germy
@Kent: It’s a quote from last night’s SNL sketch:
“You know who’s great at washing his hands? Joseph Stalin!”
jl
@Subsole: A lot of overlap between Warren and Sanders supporters, but also a lot of non overlap. Considerable part of Warren support much more moderate than Sanders. Sanders fanatics are getting mad that Warren is not dropping out because they think that will mean a big net increase in Sanders support. But, I don’t think anyone really knows.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: Amy the Klo(born 1960) would like a word with you.
Betty Cracker
@different-church-lady: Maybe for the novelty of it, we’ll have “establishment” Democrats knee-capping Sanders going into the general this go-round. This thing isn’t even close to over, IMO.
Baud
Is Pete’s speech still at 8:30?
Immanentize
@Baud: Kent is not aware of all internet traditions.
zhena gogolia
@satby:
I’ll keep that in mind!
Subsole
@MattF:
Life can be one hell of an education, can’t it Roger?
Dan B
Many LGBT people are mourning Pete’s dropping out. He was not my first or second choice and he did not seem to recognize how easy it was to label him as racist. There was a great bit of actual journalism, you know “research”, in Medium on Pete’s many initiatives to empower black people in South Bend. But misinformation gets around faster than the truth. I believe it would be wise for him to make some moves to address racism, particularly by listening to leaders like Stacey Abrams. There are projects to deal with the new redlining and gerrymandering.
I’m also very proud of Pete for his decision to support Biden. I hope it works and that “one term” Biden picks Harris as either VP or AG.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
I believe Baud was quoting the SNL cold open.
satby
@Subsole: her tenure as AG in CA. And she’s pretty well informed on criminal justice issues, she was brought to DC by past police chief Chuck Ramsey to start up a community policing program.
zhena gogolia
@Dan B:
Has he endorsed Biden?
satby
@Baud: still scheduled,but I can’t watch. 😞
Kent
@germy: Yeah, OK, just watched it with my daughter. She orders you all to support Biden so that we can get 4 more years of John Mulaney doing Biden. She’s a huge Mulaney fan.
Jeffro
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: ouch! 😉
Baud
@satby: 😞
@Kent: One of the best reasons I’ve read.
Baud
Chastan is speaking.
Betsy
@Baud: Containing about 3.8% of the U.S. population. Really.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Sorry, I think Woody Harrelson is the best Biden.
Kent
@Baud: Mulaney’s “Horse Loose in the Hospital” is the best comedy skit about Trump that I have yet seen. Pure genius with a deft touch.
Baud
@Kent: Agree. Very good.
Baud
Pete’s up.
Betsy
@Baud: Containing about 3.8% of the U.S. population. Really.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
OT: Has anyone seen commenter raven recently?
Baud
@Betsy: That’s a lot of population growth in 10 minutes.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Up where?
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): He left us.
satby
@Baud: 😭
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Concession speech.
Cacti
So you say. But Bernie was trending upward in SC polling prior to his 60 Minutes debacle.
jl
Sorry to go off topic again, but man, am I sick of the cynicism and inability of people to do any responsible due diligence in their reporting. Just saw on Josh Marshall’s twitter that he is swallowing whole a science reporter rant about supposed CDC bungling on the coronavirus test kit and accusations of political influence from Trumpsters.
Turns out that the Chinese test kits have a history of too many false positives. And apparently the false positives were bad enough to produce misleading conclusions even when the prior probability of a person being infected was high. For example, the Chinese doc to sounded the alert may have died because a series of test for being infected with the coronavirus came back negative, which affected his treatment:
Are Coronavirus Tests Accurate?
” Dr. Wenliang developed a cough and fever after unknowingly treating an infected patient. He was hospitalized, testing negative for coronavirus several times before eventually receiving a positive result. ”
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=228250
If the Chinese test could produce that many false positives, it wouldn’t do much good for community surveillance in a very low prevalence situation.
I also see a lot of alarm spread by people who don’t understand what the basic reproductive number (or ratio, or rate) is.
So, anyway, people should wash their damn hands, cough into their elbows, not touch their faces, and contact their doc at the first sign of troubling coronavirus symptoms. And be confidenct such actions if taken by a lot of people can be very effective at preventing an epidemic in the US. And take stuff you read about it in popular press, or by geneticists trying to do infectious disease control on twitter, with a huge grain of salt.
OK, I’m out for a while, so won’t bother people with this for the rest of this thread.
Edit: The google search ‘Chinese test coronavirus false positives’ and getting a page or relevant results took less than 30 seconds.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud:
Did Stephanapolous (or whoever) ask him how he figures African-American voters in South Carolina are part of “the corporate wing of the Democratic Party”?
Cacti
Optics:
Bernie says to a bunch of San Jose tech bros, that black voters in South Carolina are “the corporate wing of the Democratic Party”.
Kent
If he crashes and burns in sensible states like….ahem….Florida. ahem. Then cool. Florida Man takes out Sanders? Heh!
I mean, yes, whatever takes a chip out of Sanders I’m all for. The fact that he doesn’t have slick answers for this old shit at this late stage in the process just tells us how bad of a candidate he actually is. I mean I could write a better response in 30 seconds. It is unbelievably incompetent of him and his staff that they can’t do the same. It’s weird and almost like how Trump can’t bring himself to ever say a negative thing about Russia.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Socialist grandpa does have delusions of grandeur.
HinTN
@Immanentize: A fucking men!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: the choices of the “normies”– and I think primary voters and especially caucus-goers are probably more engaged than most election day voters– have never made sense to us loons who choose to marinate in this stuff
Kent
Doncha know? They only count 3/5ths in Sanders math because they are in red states below the Mason Dixon line.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
Well, he ain’t wrong.
Ohio Mom
Goku: I forgot what exactly Raven was fed up about but he said he was fed up and leaving. And so he did.
I sometimes wonder if his exit wasn’t percipitated by his retirement. Really, no one can be surprised that the threads here can be irritating and infuriating on occasion. All of a sudden, he’s fed up?
But his whole life was taking a radical new turn and maybe he did not see spending time on these threads as part of his new life.
Elizabelle
It’s a gracious speech, and unifying. Well done, Pete.
zhena gogolia
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
He departed. I hope he’ll come back some day.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Agreed. Looking forward to see what’s ahead for him.
chris
Time out for a smile at this existential threat… to a hotdog.
Baud
Nice speech. No endorsement.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Oh, too bad. I want this thing to be over soon. And with no BS.
Bill Arnold
@jl:
Individual behavior will make an enormous difference, both good, and unfortunately also bad. The US is in a bad way because of (among other reasons) no paid sick leave and high deductibles/no insurance and a national habit of non-compliance. The incompetence of the DJT administration is also hurting. But individuals can help both themselves and others, and because it is a virus/replicator, potentially as you say they can help vast numbers of others.
On a personal level, I’m training away face touching by applying a drop of new Skin liquid bandage or Nexcare skin crack liquid on a hand nail (index finger, thumb). Both these products are persistently smelly and the smell is a quick reminder of a behavior fail.
zhena gogolia
@jl:
What would you suggest as a good source of news?
Baud
@zhena gogolia: maybe he’ll do it later tonight or tomorrow.
Starfish
@Baud: Bob Dole was labeled as too old at 73 in his 1996 run against Clinton. Bob Dole is still alive today.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Ohio Mom: Raven left because Cole banned a commenter he liked.
ETA: Also the lack of football coverage.
trollhattan
Mayor Pete’s a good person who zero Americans knew of a year ago and yet, look at what he accomplished.
He’ll be back if he wishes to.
WaterGirl
@MattF: Thank you! Just a happy go lucky guy, Stone is.
Jeffro
The contrast between the Democratic Justice League and the trumpublican Suicide Squad for the next eight months is going to be amazing. I like our chances!
Hey America, take a good close look at the folks you’ll either put in or put out of power (and for heaven’s sake turn off your cable news).
Baud
@Starfish:
Excellent lack of pronoun use.
Sab
@Bill Arnold: What a good idea!
I have always been a rabid handwasher, but I can’t seem to resist touching my face, and I generally don’t notice when I am doing it.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Heh.
satby
Jason Kander@JasonKander
2h
What @PeteButtigieg
accomplished in this campaign made history, but it also changed a lot of futures for young people who wonder if there’s a place for them in public service. Proud of my friend.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Oh that’s too bad. As in he stopped commenting? What happened?
Amir Khalid
@Ohio Mom:
As I recall, raven was ticked off about ola azul being banned for reasons not given in full. Our man raven disapproved of the secrecy.
satby
And nice:
Elizabeth Warren@ewarren
2h
Thank you,@PeteButtigieg. I know you’ll continue giving back and serving our country for many years to come
O. Felix Culpa
@satby: That’s a very gracious statement. I like Jason Kander’s future too. Both he and Pete are hampered by coming from red states, but hopefully they’ll both find a pathway forward.
Sab
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Please don’t let us rehash that again.
Shalimar
Fun Fact: If Pete Buttigieg ran for president in the next 10 elections, he would still be 4 months younger than Bernie is now for the last one.
J R in WV
@low-tech cyclist:
We just watched Pete (and his husband Chasten) speak in South Bend. Chasten was nearly overcome, but did a great job of introducing Pete. And then Pete did a good job of winding up his campaign, and his home town crowd loved him all the way through the speech.
It was the first time I’ve watched Pete speak for any length, and he did a great job. If I had seen that speech months ago I would have been working for him. Seriously.
He spoke about the important issues, the importance of the down-ballot races, the need to put Mitch McConnell out of a job, the need to … how did he put it, teachers should be respected and paid more like doctors, words to that effect.
His heart seems to be in the right place. He’s more progressive than I thought. Very attractive candidate, with many opportunities in the future. A shame he isn’t one of the candidates able to stay in the race to the finish line!
ETA fix some things for the grammar pedants, you know who you are!
Another Scott
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: But, but Amir covers football almost every day!!
Take it easy Raven/raven.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@Sab:
I’m looking for something smellier but these two products seem to work. newSkin changed their formula a while back and doesn’t work as well for bandaging as it used to but it works for making fingers smelly enough to alert one to unconcious face touching.
trollhattan
Wow. A sophomore from my kid’s HS just won 3rd place in the 10th National Chopin Piano Competition (in Miami, for Florida Man tie-in). First and second move on to the international event in Warsaw, so he’ll be back at school instead. “So, how was your weekend? I went to an awesome party!” “Uh…”
DB11
@Shalimar: Too funny! (and sad at the same time)
JanieM
@Bill Arnold: I too think the odor thing is a great idea. How about using raw garlic?
Starfish
@jl: That’s not a false positive. That is a false negative. We usually tolerate false positives more than we do false negatives. Failing to diagnose a case of a disease is usually a worse mistake than falsely diagnosing a disease in someone who does not have it.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Another Scott: When did Liverpool get an NFL team? //
zhena gogolia
@J R in WV:
He’s been like that all along!!!!!
Bill Arnold
@JanieM:
Garlic would work for me. Maybe garlic-infused clear nail polish, to make it persist longer?
satby
@J R in WV: luv ya J R, but Pete talked about ALL of that all the way through his campaign. All of it. Not a thing he said was new, other than he was leaving the race.
different-church-lady
@Shalimar: That’s an odd use of the word “fun.”
zhena gogolia
@satby:
inorite?
zhena gogolia
Since Covid has crept into this thread — I saw a description of the anxiety it produces that fits me to a tee:
JanieM
@Bill Arnold:
Sounds like a new market niche. Let’s get right on it!!!
But seriously, I wonder if scraping some garlic on the nails, then painting some nail polish over it, would work. My kids and friends would die laughing if I started wearing nail polish…
Sab
@satby: Yep. I first heard him interviewed on our local NPR morning show a year ago. I was impressed. Then I was influenced by some negative spin others did. You talked me down from that. I do think informed locals should be listened to in regard to candidates.
I am impressed with him, but my personal favorite has been Warren for the last 15 years.
J R in WV
@satby:
Did you watch Buttigieg’s speech? I did, and I didn’t hear anything like that… I suspect that was hateful fiction put in his mouth by someone who despises him for whatever reason.
Now, maybe I just missed it while eating a late dinner, but I was paying attention, and all I heard was uplifting… nothing like what you’re “quoting” there.
zhena gogolia
@J R in WV:
It’s a spoof.
TS (the original)
@J R in WV:
snark/comedy site
VFX Lurker
@Jinchi:
7.2 million vote-by-mail Democratic ballots went out. Only 1.4 million (20%) have been returned so far. Ballots postmarked by March 3rd and received by March 6th still count.
Let’s see how many of the remaining 5.8 million Democratic vote-by-mail ballots return by March 6th. Our 2018 midterm participation rate was 37%; I hope we do even better in the 2020 primary.
O. Felix Culpa
@J R in WV: satby was quoting a satire site.
Bill Arnold
@Starfish:
And worse, statistics people use Type I and Type II errors
for which they will never be forgiven, rather than False positives and false negatives.
For others, in general, the less prevalent a condition (e.g. COVID 19 infection) is in a population the less acceptable false positives are, and vice versa. This means that a test suitable for a population with a high infection rate may not be suitable for a population with a very low infection rate. Unfortunately, infection rates shift by many orders of magnitude during an epidemic. I don’t know how public health people deal with this, TBH. A test where the threshold can be adjusted would be ideal. That’s what people making AI classifiers usually do; adjust the false positive/false negative rates (a tradeoff).
Betsy
@Lacuna Synecdoche: Thank you.
Laura Koerber
@gene108: I don’t know about the Mysterious Entity, but he pisses me off.
Sab
@Bill Arnold: My line of work I don’t have a lot of actual client contact, but I handle lots of their paperwork every flu season.
I used to worry about getting sick because of my very elderly dad and my young granddaughter. Now I worry about me and my spouse (we ain’t spring chickens any more.)
I have some smelly handcreams I never used because of the smell. Thanks.
Bill Arnold
@Sab:
If you find something, spread the knowledge.
This person claims to have found a perfect behavior-modification nail polish that smells like “death and evil’s baby”, but they may have just gotten lucky with a bad batch.
This NYTimes article (by the creator of XKCD) might be a start for inventors:
What’s the World’s Worst Smell? – Some odors are more heinous than others. Then there’s Stench Soup. (Randall Munroe, Feb. 17, 2020) (via)
J R in WV
@jl:
I don’t know if my total shoulder replacements did it or not, but I can NOT cough into my elbow with any substantive assist on cutting spray down at all. My elbow is like 8 inches from my mouth at the closest. That’s why I try to use my hand, and to avoid contact with things until I can clean up.
ETA: Also, I’m very tired of people telling us that alcohol based hand cleanser doesn’t help protect against this virus~!!~ This is wrong, according to the CDC and the World Health Organization… Alcohol and hydrogen peroxide both kill coronavirus that causes this disease!!!
I’ve seen a dozen comments about hand sanitizer not working on viruses, and they are all WRONG on this particular virus, this is the kind of error that can kill people, so PLEASE STOP !!!
Ohio Mom
JR in WV: maybe invest in some handkerchiefs? They’ll help a little and maybe strangers won’t glare at you so much.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@VFX Lurker: Also in LA County you only get vote-by-mail ballots if you’ve signed up for permanent vote-by-mail, otherwise you go to a voting center to vote.
J R in WV
@Ohio Mom:
Actually, we’re retired, uppa holler 98% of the time. I go to town normally once a week, and intend to cut that way down in the very near future. Just brought in 240 pounds of Dog food kibble and 3 big sacks of cat food. A start on acquiring long term stay at home.
I do usually have bandannas in a pocket, and don’t usually go off on people in public.
Thanks for the reminder, though, I do intend to get several packages of new bandannas asap.
VFX Lurker
True. Dean Logan reported that 145,833 voters cast ballots so far in Los Angeles County and: “Big days expected tomorrow and Tuesday.”
I’m hoping for sky-high turnout across our state.
Ohio Mom
JR in WV: We homebodies are definitely having a moment — who could have imagined we would be trendsetters?
Tom Q
@germy: So, to be That Guy (who steps on a joke):
Actually, the way the Oscars vote for best picture, you’re perfectly free to vote your actual favorite, because they use a preferential ballot — the equivalent of instant runoff voting, where you rank the nominated films 1-9. So, if your choice is eliminated, your second choice becomes your vote…and if THAT’s eliminated, your third choice, and so on. It’s more like the Iowa caucus than a straight primary, and obviates the need for such strategic thinking.
End of today’s chapter of Things You Probably Didn’t Need to Know.
jl
@jl: @Starfish: thanks for catching that. The Chinese test available several weeks ago was suspected of both false positives and false negatives. In my haste, I failed to mention false negatives, did mention false positives, and then gave an example of a false negative.
Both can be bad for infectious disease control, you are correct about that.
Ruckus
Wow.
I’ve read about half way down and it seems most everyone is on edge, as in seemingly standing on the edge of the ledge, several stories above the ground, yelling at everyone else. We are 4 contests in, with 2 of those being meaningless caucuses, with too many contestants but many are seeing what many of us have been seeing for a long time, there are too many possibilities with few of them being capable, at this time. And we are shouting at each other like that’s going to make everything better.
It. Won’t. Make. Anything. Better.
Most of the people commenting on this blog regularly have their favorite(s) and their worst nightmares, and mostly we aren’t that far apart. But we are at each others throats like we are in a knife fight. Don’t get me wrong, this is the most important presidential race in my decades and there aren’t a lot of you a whole lot older than I am so I’m thinking it’s the most important in everyone’s life. All of us are affected by this. In my case social security and the VA are my life lines. Orange Numbnuts gets to cut either one of those, I’m screwed. I’d bet that most everyone here has some exposure to his shitty ideas about economics, no matter your age. He’s already fucked the economy, we are probably headed for another recession and soon we may all be fucked one way or another, before November, let alone January.
But can we at least try to have some civility? We don’t have to not argue but the level of rancor in this post would have been enough to star a world war, in only one generation before me. I tried to make a joke the other day it fell flatter than a jumper off the Empire State Building top floor. Now I’m begging.
206inKY
@satby: I lost track of how many folks in yesterday’s thread were calling on Pete and Amy to drop out. As if it’s totally irrelevant that Pete beat Warren in all four primaries so far. Amy’s rise to second in Warren’s backyard was even more impressive considering how she was shivved from the start with that mean boss story that barely anyone seemed willing to call out for the rank sexism that it was. I do not regret my donations to the Klob and am saving my yard sign.
janesays
@oldster: Depending on when your state’s filing deadline was, you may get to vote for her even after she drops out. My state votes next week (March 10th), and I won’t be surprised if she’s not in the race when I vote, but I’m fairly sure she’ll be on our ballots regardless.
janesays
@PsiFighter37: If Warren loses Massachusetts – and there’s a reasonable possibility she will – I believe she’ll end her campaign before the week is over.
janesays
@Immanentize: I don’t have an issue with her staying now, and if she’s still in the race next week, I’ll probably be voting for her. But if she loses Massachusetts on Tuesday, it truly is the end of the road for her campaign. If she can’t win her home state, she’s not going to win anywhere else.
I feel the same about Klobuchar, though to be honest, even if she does win Minnesota (which she might), unless she does so with a commanding margin (20 points) and has impressive performances in several other states as well, she’s also finished after Tuesday.
Bobby Thomson
I’m not wading through 372 comments, but A-Klo is staying in to keep Sanders from getting all the Minnesota delegates.
Lacuna Synecdoche
Lacuna Synecdoche
What the living fuck is wrong with BJ’s formatting? It can’t read html tags anymore?