The Washington Post has reported that both Senator Sanders and the President have both been briefed that Vladimir Putin is interfering on both their behalf in the 2020 election:
U.S. officials have told Sen. Bernie Sanders that Russia is attempting to help his presidential campaign as part of an effort to interfere with the Democratic contest, according to people familiar with the matter.
President Trump and lawmakers on Capitol Hill have also been informed about the Russian assistance to the Vermont senator, according to people familiar with the matter, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence.
It is not clear what form that Russian assistance has taken. U.S. prosecutors found a Russian effort in 2016 to use social media to boost Sanders campaign against Hillary Clinton, part of a broader effort to hurt Clinton, sow dissension in the American electorate and ultimately help elect Donald Trump.
Senator Sanders both gave The Washington Post an appropriate response, but had his campaign issue it as a formal and official one as well.
“I don’t care, frankly, who Putin wants to be president,” Sanders said in a statement to The Washington Post. “My message to Putin is clear: stay out of American elections, and as president I will make sure that you do.
Unfortunately Senator Sanders was briefed on this information a month ago!
Sanders tells reporters he learned about Russian interference in his campaign about a month ago.
But asked why it came out now, Sanders points to the fact that the NV caucuses are a day away. And adds sarcastically, "Washington Post? Good friends."
— Abby D. Phillip (@abbydphillip) February 21, 2020
That’s a problem. Despite the briefing being classified there are ways to get ahead of these things and getting the information out, because eventually the information is going to leak out anyway. This information did, indeed, leak out. And it would not surprise me if the President didn’t leak it to try to distract from the reporting about the briefing he and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence received about Putin’s ongoing election interference. The specific problem here is that Senator Sanders knew, the President knew, and Vladimir Putin knew. The rest of us, however, did not know. We may have surmised based on what we know happened in 2016, but we did not know. And that means for the past month the President and Vladimir Putin have had leverage over Senator Sanders. I’m not suggesting that Senator Sanders is an agent of either one’s influence, but by sitting on the information for a month it provided both of them leverage that they could have used against him.
If there is one overarching lesson that we should all take away from what Putin did in 2016 and has been doing since 2016 is that when senior officials, or those seeking high office, refuse to be forthcoming about their activities, actions, and interests (personal, professional, business), it provides the other people that know about these activities, actions, and interests leverage over them. The problem in 2016 wasn’t that the President, as a candidate, was trying to do business in Russia. The problem was he kept lying about it over and over and over all while Putin and several of those around Putin knew the truth. Which provided Putin with leverage over the President. The same dynamic was also at play when Senator Sanders and his supporters demanded to see transcripts of Secretary Clinton’s speeches during the 2016 campaign because they wanted to know what she may or may not have said or promised to those who were paying her to give those talks. There was no indication she promised anyone anything, But the argument then was that it provided the interests paying for her to give a speech leverage on her above and beyond the speaker’s fee and expenses she was paid.
I know, you know, we all know that Senator Sanders is not a witting or unwitting asset of Putin’s. We know that Putin doesn’t actually want him to be president, Putin just wants him or his supporters to create chaos by ripping the Democratic Party apart* in order to achieve the strategic effect that Putin does want: having the President reelected to a second term. Because that strategic effect creates even more chaos, which increases the likelihood that Putin achieves his overarching strategic objective: weakening the US and with it the US created and backed post WW II international order; leaving Putin free to operate with impunity. Loose lips may sink ships, but in this case being forthcoming is the way to ensure operational security and dispel questions and doubts.
Open thread.
* I do not actually know what will happen if Senator Sanders wins the Democratic nomination for president. I would like to believe that we are all mature enough and realistic enough to recognize the threat to the Republic overrides our individual political preferences in a potential Democratic candidate. I would like to say I was sure this would be the case, but I cannot.
PsiFighter37
Fuck Bernie. Sat on it for a month. Dude is just like Donnie, if just a more unwitting dummy for Putin.
Adam L Silverman
@PsiFighter37: Lighten up Francis.
bluehill
Lot cheaper than the cold war and much more effective. Win-win for Vlad.
debbie
I’m guessing BS didn’t say anything before now because he doesn’t like the idea of being used. I think he should have spoken up before now even though it was classified.
Major Major Major Major
I was thinking about Sanders’s medical records and taxes, and Hillary’s speeches, earlier today. Same as you wrote: it can look really bad when you sit on something out of principle or whatever, even if there’s nothing to really see.
His medical records came to mind because I was thinking about the one thing that would make me hesitate to vote for him: a wackaloon VP nominee. Actuarial tables are not in his favor.
James E Powell
I’m counting on the Pack o’ Jackals to correct me if I’m wrong, and I mean that sincerely, but I have never heard or read Sanders or anyone associated with his campaign say something like “In 2016 we said and did things in our zeal to win the nomination but the result was that we helped put Trump in the White House. This was a grave error and we regret it. We are determined not to make the same mistake again.”
I know Susan Sarandon still thinks she did the right thing, but does Bernie Sanders? Do his supporters?
The fact that Trump and the Republicans did everything in their power to suppress, stall, and obstruct any investigation into Russian interference tells me that they know all about it and they know it was critical to their victory. I don’t know what Sanders’s angle is at all.
Gin & Tonic
What’s this “we” jazz, Kemo Sabe?
Chris Johnson
@Major Major Major Major: It makes me wonder if he would not dare to propose Tulsi Gabbard at this stage. I’ve been waiting unhappily to see if he would get the nomination, and then do that, which would be a tipoff to me that the fix was in.
I feel like this severely affects his tendency to want to pick some obviously ‘Anti Dem Establishment’ person, and either reveal he’s actively aligned with Putin, OR reveal that he has no sense and his arrogance blinds him to being used by obvious russian agents. Either way, if he did that I would not be able to vote for him (just every other Dem on the ballot).
Not sure that can happen now, and not sure what that means. If, now, he either can’t win or can’t pick an obvious Putin-tool as a veep, that could be better than what I thought was gonna happen.
Wag
Thanks for this, Adam. As always, yours is a voice of sanity. I particularly appreciate your appropriate comparison of this issue with Clinton’s missteps around her private speeches. Sander’s failure to come clean about this is unfortunate, just as Clinton‘s failure to come clean about her speeches was unfortunate. Neither mistake is disqualifying.
Sander’s apology is a sincere, just as his disavowal of his more radical and obnoxious supporters seems sincere. I will vote for him a f he is the nominee. Certainly far from my first choice, but I’d fill in the oval for him , if need be.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
Lots of people on Twitter have been winding themselves up about the possibility of Vice President Tulsi Gabbard.
I have to say that that choice — or if he chose Nina Turner — would be the one thing that could make me vote third party. It would also make me reconsider the whole “unwitting asset” theory.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I’m trying to extend an olive branch, while at the same time I live in dread that Putin will have Russian intel release all the video and audio surveillance from his honeymoon in Soviet Russia. Those are not sights and sounds anyone should want to hear.
Morzer
Well, there’s another cluster to throw on the fuck-pile that is the Democratic primary.
Shalimar
@Gin & Tonic: Yeah, I second that sentiment. Sanders has voted against sanctions on Russia at every opportunity. He has a history with the Soviet Union and Russia dating as far back as Trump’s. Tad Devine worked with Manafort in Ukraine. Maybe those dots don’t actually connect to anything. They’re all circumstantial. But I am far from comfortable agreeing he isn’t a witting or unwitting Putin asset.
Chris Johnson
@Wag: Oh, I would be just as happy with him as a rubber stamp for progressive Dems fixing our country, as I would be with Biden as a rubber stamp for etc etc.
But only if he picked a Veep who was NOT even tighter with Putin than he is. There are many possibilities, even some of the radical leftists that people object to. The ones that would be a dealbreaker for me are… well, Gabbard and Jill Stein. Pretty much them. I’ve been dreading signs that he was going to reveal himself in that way, and I don’t want to believe that. Bad enough that he’s getting used and I’m really, really bitter that his movement has been co-opted. I was with him, once. I’m finding all this hard to forgive.
The Thin Black Duke
Gin & Tonic
Take this to the bank. If Sanders is the nominee he loses 32-34 States *and* the popular vote. It won’t be McGovern or Goldwater, but it will be close. And if by some miracle which I cannot foresee he manages to win, he will die in office.
Adam L Silverman
@The Thin Black Duke: She’s got about ten days or so. After that her window of opportunity may be closed off depending on how Nevada and South Carolina go.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: This is my concern.
Gin & Tonic
@Shalimar:
Yup, Bernie and Rand Paul. And “we” (by which I explicitly mean to include Adam) know all about the Paul family.
Adam L Silverman
@Wag: You’re welcome.
Mnemosyne
@The Thin Black Duke:
Super Tuesday is coming up fast and CA is an early state this year, so I have a decision to make.
I still want to see what happens in NV and SC so I can vote with the sensible, rational voters in our party: Black women.
Shalimar
@Adam L Silverman: There is another debate before South Carolina. If Warren wants the nomination, she has to eviscerate Sanders there.
trnc
@Gin & Tonic: My bigger fear is that he’ll be nominated and then have a heart attack in late october.
download my app in the app store mistermix
My question to Adam: I take your point that the truth gets out eventually, but do you think Sanders was told this and sworn to secrecy? That’s what Cole thinks. You two guys (and I guess Cheryl) are the only ones who have ever had a security clearance that write here.
The Thin Black Duke
@Shalimar: Save us Obi Warren Kenobi. You’re our only hope.
Ella in New Mexico
@Wag:
Seconded. I always look forward to Adam’s take on this kind of thing.
And for the record, lack of transparency is exactly what will do Bernie in. I’ve been saying all along that when we see the South Carolina Republicans encouraging a crossover campaign for R’s to vote for Bernie in their open Primary and Trump and his surrogates are pumping out sympathy Tweets for how badly Bernie is being treated this time around it means they know 2 things.
The answer is transparency, get out ahead of any damaging info, and pick a solid VP that this shit won’t work on if he does get the nomination.
trnc
@Gin & Tonic: My bigger fear is that he’ll be nominated and then have a heart attack in late october.
@Shalimar: I wonder if she has to take his rabid base into consideration or just say screw it.
Adam L Silverman
Adam L Silverman
@Shalimar: Yep, hence her window of opportunity beginning to close.
Sab
@Morzer: Pastry.
@Mnemosyne: Too early to be strategic. Vote for who you want.
Chris Johnson
@Adam L Silverman: pff! Okay, that’s funny. Thanks :)
Adam L Silverman
@download my app in the app store mistermix: I have no doubt this was a classified briefing. But there are always ways for that information to get out. It was leaked to the WaPo reporters. Just as the briefing that HPSCI and the President got early in the week leading to the mid-morning of the moderate sized sporks at ODNI today.
NotMax
How so many people cannot (or refuse to) see it is plainly evident Sanders is not a credible candidate surpasses understanding.
Didn’t grok it in ’16, don’t grok it now.
As for his rabid cultists, all it brings to mind is the same situation with LaRouche.
Morzer
I think it’s extremely likely that we are now heading for Bernie and Bust. I can’t see Warren or Biden or anyone else being able to take down Senator Shouty in the next debate – and I am not sure they’ll even try. The color-clash between Sanders’ necrophiliac purple countenance and Trump’s ape-shit orange facial substitute is going to be absolutely horrible.
J R in WV
We’ve been watching the Rachel Maddow show while eating dinner (cauliflower smoked ham casserole, not the recipe I posted recently) and she is pounding Trump with a 13 pound sledge.
G W Bush pulled a pardon after the convict’s father contributed some $28,000 to the Rs; this for dear of the appearance of corruption… George W Bush!!! The appearance of corruption!
Trump solicits donations in order to receive a pardon. He raised around $10,000,000 in LA the other day, and pardoned criminals 2 or 3 days later. Trump is so ignorant he doesn’t even know when he’s violating the law!! Or else he’s so corrupt he enjoys showing his corruption off in public, like a sexual exhibitionist, only with crime rather than sex!!
GRRRR~!!!!~
I strongly recommend ya’ll look up the Maddow show tonight!!!
Adam L Silverman
@Chris Johnson: If we can’t keep a sense of humor, even a grim, morose, and/or gallows sense of humor, then we’re in even worse trouble.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I don’t think he has people handing out newspapers in DC.
Mike in NC
Putin appears to have bought dozens of puppets in a lot of countries. Fat Bastard and Bolshevik Bernie are just two of them here. The richest despot in the world knows how to play his game.
Major Major Major Major
@Morzer: it’s kind of amazing to watch the Dems doing a repeat of the 2016 GOP primary, isn’t it? Nobody goes after this guy except Bloomberg I guess.
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: Hillary’s speeches? Really? I can’t believe you went there.
They wanted the transcripts of those speeches, and my understanding was that there weren’t any transcripts, that they didn’t exist, but that was one of the talking points of the Far Left.
cokane
@PsiFighter37: People here are becoming insane about Sanders, seriously. This is turning into a site that spreads some disinformation.
https://twitter.com/Johngcole/status/1230993418895138816
TS (the original)
@J R in WV:
Everything is for sale with trump he wasn’t a billionaire when he entered the White House – he will be one when he leaves.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Adam L Silverman: I think that’s a legitimate defense of why Sanders didn’t release the information.
That said, this whole episode really points out how weak we are at keeping foreign interference out of our elections. We should have a coordinated effort that regularly releases public reports, not some background briefing to the candidate that they aren’t supposed to comment on. That’s because the Republicans tacitly are fine with Russian interference.
NotMax
@cokane
Or maybe we see him for what he is and has always been: a preening empty vessel, dedicated to sloganeering over politicking.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@cokane: I linked to that tweet above. I agree with John. I don’t think either Adam or I spread misinformation in our posts on this. Neither of us are responsible for the comments of commenters on this site, as long as they follow the policy.
Feathers
More fuel on the Bernie can’t be trusted fire. His BS about how the people harassing his opponents online “weren’t his supporters” only served to whip his supporters into a frenzy denouncing anyone who complained about their abuse. If he had said “some of my supporters are doing this, it’s wrong, cut it out,” that would have been actually helpful. Instead, he made things worse.
I don’t know about your sources on the no-Russian bots. I only know that some of the women I follow who were on the receiving end of Bernabuse in 2016 say that it is the same or worse now.
Apologies for repeating a paragraph from my post towards the bottom of a thread downstairs, but it remains my preoccupation, and I haven’t heard it talked about much:
J R in WV
@cokane:
What exactly are you proposing is disinformation here today? Be exact~!!~
I personally think Sanders was a Soviet agent, a true believer in Soviet Marxism/Stalinism, believed it would overcome the weak democratic west, and wanted to be on top when the opportunity came. I can’t prove that, but there is a ton of circumstantial evidence, including his speeches, his honeymoon, and his support from the GRU at Putin’s direction.
What disinformation do you believe is being promulgated at Balloon Juice, today or in the past? Again, be Specific!
ETA: And now his expectation of being on top after Soviet/Russian style electioneering succeeds can come TRUE!!!
Oh, yeh, you’re limited to discussing pastry from now on…
Adam L Silverman
@cokane: Unlike Cole, I actually served in billets that were intel funded lines. I agree it was classified. There are still ways to get that information out there. Which is why it was leaked by someone who is clearly not a friend of Senator Sanders to WaPo and why the related information briefed to HPSCI and the President earlier this week was also leaked.
The Thin Black Duke
@Mike in NC: Putin’s next chess move is putting Bernie’s VP into the White House because he knows Bernie will either die in office or he’ll quit due to health issues. Here’s the new puppet, same as the old puppet.
Major Major Major Major
@opiejeanne:
Hillary’s speeches are brought up in the post we’re commenting on.
The speeches leaked in October 2016. Their content was completely unsurprising; it was unclear why Hillary decided not to release them in the first place, unless it was out of principle.
Sanders’s taxes are, as it turns out, similarly unremarkable. So I sure hope he’s doing the same with his medical records as he did with his taxes, and Hillary with her speeches: holding them back out of principle (or perhaps mild embarrassment), not that those are good reasons at this level.
Gin & Tonic
@cokane: Some of us are becoming insane about the possibility of a Trump re-election, which a Sanders nomination guarantees.
Please specify which of the 30 States that Trump carried in 2016 can be swung by Sanders.
opiejeanne
@The Thin Black Duke: Yeah, I feel that way and I’m not settled on Warren yet. I’m like Mnemosyne, waiting to see what happens before I fill out my mail-in ballot. My state votes the week after Super Tuesday.
And I’m starting to wonder where my ballot is
Adam L Silverman
@Feathers: I saw a direct quote from the head of the DFR
Ilab that he and his team have not seen any open source information indicating that the toxic to most toxic Sanders’ supporters online are Russian bots and trolls. He did state that if Senator Sanders has classified information indicating otherwise, then he cannot speak to that.jl
@cokane: Same thing that I thought. If it was classified, what was Sanders supposed to do? Maybe he could have done something to get word out sooner without causing a scandal for his campaign or causing a huge distracting fracas if we had an honest executive branch. But we don’t. We have Trump. Even going through channels to declassify it would be risky. Trump went apeshit over the very idea of briefing Congress.
I agree that some of the commenters’ love or hatred of their favorite or most despised candidate is out of control.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I think she didn’t release them because she didn’t have specific transcripts. What leaked, if I’m recalling correctly, were either drafts of outlines and/or notes that got hacked or transcripts made by the hosting organization that were also hacked. But I haven’t looked at it for a while, so don’t quote me on that.
schrodingers_cat
@Shalimar: Me three. Too much Russia love and too many Russian connections.
opiejeanne
@J R in WV: She’s good tonight. We’re at the point where the lawyer, Barry Burke, is talking about Trump and his criminality.
She is on a tear tonight, although she did start out the hour by exonerating Bernie of any knowledge or appreciation of Russian nonsense on his behalf. I wanted to spit because she was so sugary, but then she pivoted to Trump’s ridiculous criminality and it was very good.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
Right.
schrodingers_cat
@opiejeanne: Warren didn’t go after the front-runner but the guy in# 4 position. Why?
opiejeanne
@Mike in NC: Don’t forget Nunes and Rohrabacher.
rp
Sanders’ response is basically irrelevant. What’s important is that Putin wants sanders to be the nominee. Why? Because he’s the most likely to lose to trump and if by some miracle he wins, he’d be the most pliable democrat for Putin’s interests. The fact that Putin wants sanders is enough, by itself, to establish that sanders would be a disastrous choice for the dem nominee.
Amir Khalid
Wilmer is right to denounce Russian interference in his favour. But per the Chris Rock test, should he get a cookie? Not really.
Adam L Silverman
@cokane: @jl: Also, if it was classified and he couldn’t get the information out, why does he think his Democratic primary rivals got the briefing and they leaked it?
This is the point I’m trying to make, and I apologize if you’re not following it. The point is that if a limited number of people know that information, and two of them are definitely bad actors, they will find a way to use it – either overtly or covertly. And that’s why you find someone to get the info out so as to neutralize the potential leverage and damage. Someone has definitely leaked it with the hope that it will create more chaos and problems. What we don’t know is who leaked it. And
sdhays
@cokane: Has he done anything to counter Russia’s interference on his behalf in the month since he learned this?
Serious question. With the very real example of what Russian interference has done to our recent elections, I think it’s reasonable to have expected him to have launched a task force in his campaign dedicated to working with law enforcement and our intelligence services to identify and counter Russian interference on his behalf. He owes us this.
I kind of think that if he had done that, he would have said so. If this had been Elizabeth Warren, I have absolutely no doubt that that is what she would have done, because I know she hates Russian interference with a white hot flame and she prefers to take action, almost to a fault. For the others, I’m not sure.
Feathers
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t doubt that it isn’t the most toxic. It’s more that the bots/etc. turn make what would be a manageable amount of abuse into something that shuts down anyone without a serious troll management system.
I follow a lot of film and ADHD/autism folks. Lots of Bernie support. I notice that their posts, even when they have factual inaccuracies, have no one jumping in to disagree. It is just a complete little world unto itself, with the notion that the only correct response to criticism of Bernie or M4A is “why do you want me dead?”
My response has been to look for moments of doubt and offer alternatives or commiseration as appropriate.
RobertDSC-Mac Mini
I know it won’t happen, but this would be a perfect opportunity for Sanders to leave the race. Retire. Never speak again. Retire his Senate seat and vanish off the public stage.
Jackie
@opiejeanne: I live in the Tri-Cities, and received my ballot yesterday. They’re making their way west ?
@opiejeanne:
opiejeanne
@Major Major Major Major: I went back and checked the OP, and still didn’t see it. I apopogize, I must have missed it. I thought you brought it up.
Those excerpts of her speeches were leaked by Wikileaks and not verified by the Clinton campaign, but Amy Chozik sure took a hatchet to her over her “… easy comfort with titans of business..” and claimed that she would be fine with cuts to Social Security.
opiejeanne
@cokane: Have some pastry.
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Funny you don’t berate Biden or Klobuchar or Buttigieg for the same thing but single out Warren.
JaySinWA
@opiejeanne:
Ours came yesterday. We are waiting until super Tuesday to see if anyone else drops out.
AxelFoley
#BernieKnew
opiejeanne
@schrodingers_cat: Wants his supporters to not hate her?
I don’t think anyone should bother treating Sanders with kid gloves, because his idiot supporters, the truly hardcore ones, will not vote for the Democratic nominee unless it is He.
I hope she treats him to the same buzzsaw party that she gave Bloomberg.
jl
@Adam L Silverman:
Maybe I don’t follow because I don’t agree with some of your assumptions:
“Someone has definitely leaked it with the hope that it will create more chaos and problems.”
That is not clear to me at all. I’d rather have that information out. If Putin is interfering to favor Sanders, that information should certainly come out. If I supported Sanders I’d want that information out.
We can damn Sanders all we want here, but sadly, we will not decide whether he is the nominee, the primary elections will decide. Would it be better if intelligence that gave convincing evidence that Putin really preferred Sanders and was interfering on his behalf came out the day after he was nominated?
Or maybe I still don’t get your argument.
NotMax
@JaySinWA
Best strategy. Voting early in the general less prone to Aha! revelations than doing so in a primary.
opiejeanne
@rp: And because of that, the honorable thing that Sanders should do is step aside but he can’t see that, his ego won’t let him see that.
Wapiti
@opiejeanne: If you’re in WA like me, I got my ballot just today. (I also got a note from somewhere, probably the Warren campaign, that ballots were going out today.)
Adam L Silverman
@jl: You don’t, but I don’t know how to explain it to you in any other ways than I already have.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: I’ll reread your post.
opiejeanne
@RobertDSC-Mac Mini: Amen!
Eljai
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know, but if I were to guess it’s because Warren can act as a foil to Bloomberg and show her strengths.
opiejeanne
@Jackie: Ha! I’m pretty far west.
Wapiti
@rp: The fact that some of his 2020 surrogates, like Cornell West, endorsed Jill Stein in 2016, bothers the hell out of me. I remember Stein and General Flynn sucking up to Putin – that puts Bernie a little too close to Putin for my comfort.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
First, “DFRI Lab”? Please expand.
And does that just mean that the Russian operators are avoiding being toxic, perhaps by policy?
AxelFoley
Then I guess this ain’t the place for you.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: Biden brought up the 2007 immigration vote and Pete B dinged him as too extreme.
Feathers
@schrodingers_cat: Because Bloomberg had a strong showing in many polls, with voter’s only knowledge of him coming from the ads he was placing on the air. Also, he is hiring up a lot of political consultants, more than his campaign needs, who would otherwise be working for House and Senate races Dems need to win. There has also been evidence of people suddenly supporting Bloomberg, despite not being natural allies. Bloomberg has a history of buying support for his unpopular policies through donations to “community leader’s” charities and local projects.
She was putting out a marker that working for or endorsing Bloomberg may not be something that you want on your resume or bio.
Another Scott
Meh.
The trouble with Bernie’s response to this is the same as the trouble with his whole campaign.
It’s just words.
He’s not actually doing anything to combat his campaign being used by Vlad to sow discord in the party.
He’s so convinced of the righteousness of his opinions and his campaign and his whole life that he sees no need to change. He’s running the same campaign as 2016. He’s giving the same speeches and fighting the same demons.
“My message to Putin is clear: stay out of American elections, and as president I will make sure that you do.” – Oooh. Vlad is so very scared. (groucho-roll-eyes.gif)
It’s the same kind of language he uses against Trump.
“He is a pathological liar,” Sanders said. “This is not the kind of temperament we should have in the White House.”
The main problem with Trump isn’t his temperament. It’s not that he’s a pathological liar. It’s that he has horrible policies.
What is your campaign going to do about it NOW, Bernie. Not after the election. NOW.
(sigh)
Bernie won’t do anything different as a result of this briefing, or his announcement that he received the briefing. It’s all just mouth noises to him. His campaign is perfect and there’s no need for him to do anything different. He’ll just keep blaming the imperfect world (DNC, Democratic Party, Vlad, anyone who doesn’t endorse him, etc., etc.) rather than doing anything himself.
Prove me wrong, Bernie. Prove me wrong.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@Sab:
I’m deciding between two people, both of whom I think would be good. Seeing what happens in NV and SC will help me make up my mind.
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: I know you don’t like Warren much, and that’s fair enough. You have your reasons, and I respect that. But by the same token, why is Amy Klobuchar focusing on Buttigieg instead of the front runner? Why isn’t Biden? The answer is simple, but difficult – as much as we don’t understand it (I can’t fathom how anyone, no matter how much they like him, looks at Bernie and sees a President), Bernie has a significant number of strong supporters, and no one wants to hit Bernie so hard that they alienate those voters. Beating him requires finesse, and no one has figured out exactly what that is yet.
In contrast, Bloomberg offered a very clear opportunity because he was an almost perfect foil for Warren. He embodies just about everything she’s against and he’s trying to waltz into the party and take it over at the last minute by just buying everything and everyone. His entire campaign is built on the idea that he’s “electable”, and she eviscerated that idea in a single debate.
I don’t know yet who I’m going to vote for, but the thought of Bloomberg as the nominee was making me ill (choosing between Bernie or Bloomberg was basically my nightmare scenario), so I’m just going to thank Senator Warren for taking out (hopefully!) one side of my nightmare scenario and hope that someone, maybe Warren again, figures out how to land the Bernie balloon without destroying the party.
Adam L Silverman
@Wapiti: His campaign spokeswoman
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: The Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/programs/digital-forensic-research-lab/
schrodingers_cat
@sdhays: They need to focus their fire on him before it is too late.
Major Major Major Major
@Bill Arnold:
Sanders certainly doesn’t need foreign help to have a whole lot of toxic supporters.
Shalimar
@rp: I don’t think you even have to say Putin wants Sanders because Sanders will lose to Trump. Everyone agrees Putin’s primary goal is getting sanctions lifted. Sanders is the only Democrat who supports lifting sanctions. Putin wins either way if Sanders is the Dem nominee.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Well, golly gee, I sure am glad Pootie Poot, in all his infinite wisdom, is committed to dismantling the international order during a pandemic! Oh and climate change. Viruses don’t care about national borders, dickhead, and those open Artic sea routes aren’t going to matter when the world is in constant chaos/collapsed
Putin is in 60s, which already puts the asswipe at risk for death from this thing. Oh sure, he’d get the best of care but so did the whistleblower doctor in China and he still died and was younger to boot
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t disagree, but it’s not just Warren who’s reluctant to go there. It seems to me that one of the people in the moderate lane should be able to distinguish themselves if they could effectively take him down, but they’ve all been pretty timid.
Ugh. I wish these fucking old men would have stayed home and let the next generation run this primary. They’ve crowded out better candidates by sucking up extra attention and donations and distracted so much that they’ve seriously damaged the process. I’m still flabbergasted by the statistic someone mentioned this morning that Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders are all older than Bill Fucking Clinton and George Fucking W. Fucking Bush. For the love of all that’s holy, why couldn’t these assholes take a look in the mirror and say, “I’m sorry, man, you’re just too damn old for this!”
Just Some Fuckhead
Let’s put this in context. During the 2016 primary, Sanders was informed by his staffers that Russians were boosting his campaign. He chose to keep it secret. Later, when reporters asked him about it, he told two different lies to the effect his campaign had reported it to the Clinton campaign. This was not true. Then later, he blamed Russian interference on Hillary Clinton. Still later, he dismissed questioning with the generic, “We knew they were meddling on both sides in the Democratic primary.” They were not, in fact, meddling on both sides. They were boosting Bernie to hurt Hillary.
So the suggestion that Bernie didn’t say anything publicly about the briefing a month ago that Russians were helping his campaign (again!) because it was classified is either the most cynical take on the planet or the most naive. Take your pick.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Tx. I’m not spotting much on methods, but I’ll trust their statement (as written).
Another Scott
Maybe!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Gin & Tonic
@Just Some Fuckhead: Good to see you again.
NotMax
@sdhays
Positioni8ng herself to become the still standing alternative to Sanders and dealing one on one at that time is not necessarily a terrible strategy. Also not the only strategy, but one that seems to be in play.
The Thin Black Duke
@Just Some Fuckhead: Welcome back.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Gin & Tonic:
Seconded
The Dangerman
I guess I can’t be a World Leader as I don’t get Putin’s motivations.
Sure, in 2016, helping an unknown clown win the Presidency seemed like a reasonable thing to do, create chaos and all of that…
…but, in 2020, helping a known incomprehensibly incompetent clown win the Presidency seems kinda dangerous to me. I mean, we (and I mean, all of us, Russia included) have dodged one hell of a bullet for almost 4 years, because if there had been a 9/11 type event during Donnie Brassholes watch, he has proven entirely incapable of handling it without massively fucking it up.
Putin should be joining us in counting down the days for this idiot to get replaced.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Welcome back
Bill Arnold
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Putin appears to believe that he can ride the tiger of chaos. He cannot. It is as probable that it eats him as not. (As you say.)
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: It did not work well for Ted Cruz in 2016.
Adam L Silverman
@The Dangerman:
This is the point. Putin wants him fucking stuff up because doing so weakens the US, weakens the US’s standing with our allies and partners, and demoralizes the majority of Americans.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: he’s not far off the mark. Sitting on it for a month is malpractice in multiple directions. Assuming, of course, that Wilmer wants informed D voters.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
1) DJT was an anomaly. One thing which can be said of Sanders is that he is not.
2) It’s Ted freakin’ Cruz, fer gosh sakes.
Jeffro
@Gin & Tonic: Agreed and amen.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@The Dangerman:
Count me in too. I think Putin is a mad man, along with Xinnie the Poo. By weakening the international global order, he has probably helped speed this virus along. Putting an incompetent idiot in charge of 300 million people who allows confirmed/suspected cases to fly on the same flight as hundreds of other healthy people will probably do that
columbusqueen
Everything swirling around Bernie points to him being a knowing tool for Putin. I say nyet.
prostratedragon
@The Dangerman:
But he would have to be fairly rational and intelligent, where he’s probably more clever than anything else and just as short-sighted as the reprobates we’ve had running energy companies here. Would he have risen as high as he has before the Soviet system broke up?
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: I don’t disagree with the sentiment.
Nicole
@Just Some Fuckhead: You have returned! Hooray!
Jeffro
Would be great to see Dem Candidate X just straight-up tell Wilmer to his face: “some great ideas and a ton of energy, BS, but unfortunately we can’t afford to lose this election and a) you’re not really a Dem, are you? b) your ‘baggage’ is only beginning to be unpacked, c) your health issues are cause for concern, and d) you seem to lean on the same lack of transparency in so many ways – tax returns, health records, etc – that trumpov does.
Let’s make a fresh start, with no BS. Pun intended.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: You’re missing the point. Cruz’s strategy was that once the President either flamed out or was taken out, he would inherit the President’s supporters. But to do that he couldn’t be seen as taking him out. So he didn’t. The other candidates took each other out or where taken out by the President. And at the end everyone waited to long to take the President out as a candidate. And there were no supporters for Cruz to inherit.
In the case of Senator Sanders, the plurality of his supporters have already made it clear they won’t support anyone but him. A bare majority have indicated they will. But in order to inherit that bare majority, someone has to take him out as a candidate. Not doing so means that he won’t go away. That he’ll keep having the opportunity to accumulate delegates. And that he’ll have the opportunity to present himself and be perceived as the inevitable nominee. If that happens, then none of the other candidates and no outside group will be able to stop him.
jl
@sdhays: I agree. I don’t see how Warren has anything to gain from bringing down Sanders now, and doing so successfully was, IMHO, a long shot. Warren is the second choice of many Sanders supporters, why piss them off?
Bloomberg was easy pickings, Warren knew she could make some news that she badly needed quick for the Nevada primary, and that would popular with people who would be likely supporters.
Klobuchar goes after Buttigieg for similar reasons, rather than Biden or Sanders.
NotMax
@Jeffro
If Reagan had not already co-opted it, a terse “There you go again” directed at BS would work wonders.
;)
chris
Interesting thread.
The Dangerman
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, there is fucking things up (U.S. and Allies impacted, good for Putin) and MASSIVELY fucking things up (everyone impacted, including Russia, thus bad for everyone). I don’t know what Trump massively fucking things up would look like but I am not at all eager to find out.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
I stand by what I wrote. YMMV.
West of the Rockies
I hope the leaks–followed by irrefutable evidence–reach critical mass. I would like to believe that the IC, the US military, and non-Trumpian government workers and journalists look at this Russia influence report and the assignment of Grennell as DNI and go all-out to topple the tin-plated strongman.
Adam L Silverman
@chris: What has happened is the Cold War era influence operations and subversion strategies, tactics, techniques, and procedures, that could never be fully and properly put into operation because the tech didn’t exist are now being put into operation. Because our technical capacity and capabilities have caught up to the concepts and doctrine.
Jeffro
Even if they can’t agree on much, one would hope the other Dem candidates could unite/pounce and point out that while they appreciate the blessed Senator from Vermont’s ideas and energy, he is a non-starter in today’s Democratic Party, has not disclosed his (obviously germane) health records, and is now in the same category as trumpov: someone Putin supports in order to cause maximum chaos in the US
So many people need to get out of this race (and it’s funny – this was not a concern of mine when there were 20+ candidates!) and draw some bright lines for our primary voters and the national snooze media.
Maybe we need an organized progression of effort here, to avoid the ‘collective action’ problem: Steyer, get out, Buttigieg, get out, Bloomberg thanks for agreeing to bankroll the eventual nominee, now get out, etc.
Cheryl Rofer
Coming in late with a couple of points.
Both of these points are tricky and don’t have simple answers. Disinformation is like that.
Point 1: We don’t know Putin’s detailed plans or motives, but it’s clear that one thing that benefits him is division in the American public and disorder. Trump provides both. Bernie’s role in Putin’s plot is not clear – it could be one or combinations of many things that have been mentioned here or on Twitter.
But we have some control over how we respond. If we respond with attacks and division on each other, that’s good for Putin. The problem is that the purpose of a primary is for people to choose up sides, so there’s division inherent in the process. What we can avoid is the more damaging forms of division, like personal attacks. Yes, I know the other side is behaving badly. That’s not an excuse. Nobody said this was going to be easy. One step is to calm oneself before responding. Think about what your words will do.
Point 2: In disinformation, it’s really hard to game out whether one should pre-emptively expose it or keep it damped down. There are lots of possible legitimate reasons, like it was a classified briefing, that Bernie might have felt the information should not be shared. But yes, it could have been gamed out that people who are not his friends might release it at a bad time for him. Again, there’s a wide range of speculation out there, and we just don’t know. That said, the blaming tack that Bernie has turned to tonight is not improving his position, except maybe with the true believers.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: ” someone has to take him out as a candidate. ‘
Easier said than done. I would like Warren to take out Sanders. But in regards to comments casting suspicion on Warren, with her candidacy in trouble, she needed a quick and fairly reliable high profile win before Nevada caucuses. I don’t see how Warren has a good chance to damage Sanders campaign and still inherit a large part of his support right now, without taking a gigantic risk. Better to shore up her own support in hopes her candidacy survives and figure out how to beat Sanders later. Warren won’t be able to defeat Sanders if her candidacy sinks in the near future.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I was just describing it. I’m not advocating for any specific candidate or for any specific candidate to do any specific thing. I just want everyone to vote. Because if we have to preserve the Republic the hard way, well that won’t be pleasant.
Shalimar
@jl: I see your point but I agree with Adam. Being 2nd choice doesn’t matter if the 1st choice wins the nomination. Only Warren has shown she is even capable of taking Sanders out. If she doesn’t, it’s hard to see anyone else doing it.
NotMax
@a href=”https://balloon-juice.com/2020/02/21/senator-sanders-and-the-president-have-both-been-briefed-that-vladimir-putin-is-interfering-on-their-behalf-in-the-2020-presidential-election/#comment-7593276″>jl
Also, to use a horse race analogy (I know, I know), Bloomberg was coming up fast behind at the rail and was ripe for being impeded.
chris
@Adam L Silverman:
This! Never mind who the nominee is, unite around the Fuck Trump banner and vote. Nothing else matters.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: OK, thanks for clarification.
@Shalimar: Fine. I desperately want that too. But Warren and the Warren campaign know a lot more about how to beat Sanders than any of us do. So, I am not going to second guess her strategy and tactics every day. As I noted above, if her campaign sinks she has exactly zero chance of beating anyone in the primary.
I desperately want Warren’s campaign to survive to the convention, because if there is a brokered convention, then Warren would be by far the best nominee in that situation.
And I am not going to spin myself into a froth over Sanders, since he may be the nominee. And Sanders would be better than Trump. People can sit here and fume and despair in case that happens, but I am going to do everything I can to defeat Trump no matter who the Democrats nominate. Trump has to go. Sanders can be managed, Trump cannot.
Ruckus
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
There are others who have or have had security clearance in the past. I’m one although that ended decades ago when I discharged from the military. There are also a number of clearance levels and access. I’d bet that Adam has the most practical experience over all being as what he did and does, but some of the others may have more actual exposure. Or not.
debbie
I did today!
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Good. Now do so again tomorrow!
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Chicago?
:)
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m wondering if Warren went after Bloomberg so strong because he was building momentum rather rapidly and has unlimited funds, something no one else has. There was talk, on BJ even of Bloomberg being the choice because of that. I also wonder if she realizes that once Bloomberg is out of the way, which he seems to be pretty much now, she can start softly on Bernie. The same level wouldn’t be right for BS, she’s closer to his concepts that she is with Bloomberg. I’m waiting till the next debate to see what happens before I’m making any predictions. She has to thread a needle here, she’s not a spring chicken herself, although those 8 yrs are a pretty critical difference.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I don’t know.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
If only! If only I could vote in place of several people I know who won’t. ? ? ?
Ruckus
@The Dangerman:
You are thinking logically.
Think like a person who has it all and it isn’t enough. Think like a person who has spent his entire life not on the side of a free country, who has made himself wealthy beyond comprehension by dealing very dirty. He’s 67 yrs old and so has some time left, and he wants to be the leader of the world. Not just the leader of the free world but of the entire world. You don’t get there by being logical and fair, you get there by being ruthless and playing people against each other and using your power to get exactly what you want, fair or earned is not important. He has the money, and it isn’t enough, more power is the only thing he understands and wants. And he’ll stop at nothing to get it. But he’s also smart and has learned to play the system much better than say trump or Sanders or even Bloomberg.
Gvg
@schrodingers_cat: it looks to me like they think “focusing their fire” would be counter productive and not work. They are actual politicians, unlike me. I think they know more about this than I do. I am not sure, but I think so. We are in a dangerous time and if there was an easy way to take out the fool Sanders, I am positive someone would have. That they haven’t I think means it’s hard. It’s not just Warren, it’s all of them not attacking him. Sometimes the most satisfying simple thing, attacking, just won’t work.
that doesn’t mean we don’t need to get lucky. I guess it’s really up to us, the voters. No candidate has infinite power. They try not to mess up. She can’t just say some perfect powerful things and suddenly Sanders supporters wise up and switch to her. At certain moments sometimes one candidate stumbles and another one says something clever and it seems to cause a momentum change pundits love, but I think it always depends on events happening at that time….like the economic crash of 2008 where the GOP was tainted by having not seen it coming and McCain was so clearly clueless about economics and Obama was cool and smart…but he didn’t cause the crash or cause McCains missteps and years of indifference to economic theory.
barb 2
@Ruckus:
I’m a military brat – dad had secret clearence and we brats kept our dad’s secrets. We learned we could talk to other brats and share information. We learned about political secrets and adults lying.
Bernie’s secret info – political secrets. Plus he is lying.
Adam Thank for writing this!
Group dynamics, mob behavior and cults has long been a research interest of mine. I watch the clips of Bernie interacting with his very young cult fans.
Now we have Sanders who we have learned something that most of us guess years ago or weeks ago. Trump tells his followers to go to the dem primaries and vote for the “weakest” candidate. That would be Bernie. His wife Jane and the correct guess is that Putin is helping Bernie.
I live in an area with tons of active military and retired military plus military contractors. My friends say — Yes there are ways to talk about some secret stuff, especially politically classified stuff. Bernie could have gotten the information about the “secret” that Putin is helping. Bernie will do “something” if he is elected. I am also a military brat. My dad had a high security clearence. We learn of a very young age to keep secrets. But what we are talking about here are political secrets.
Vote security, all votes being counted – Moscow Mitch and Trump have been hiding political secrets since 2016. We need to protect the vote from hacking. Anyone who has any knowledge of how easy it is to hack databases. Computer geeks are very very concerned.
Now Bernie isn’t a very nice person. Clinton said he doesn’t play well with others she knows he hacked her databases and stole email address of her supporters. Some of his followers concern me – because they reflect cult like behavior. I doubt Russia has anything to do with these hard core destroyers.
Trump will use Jane’s history with financial lying etc. Most likely Trump has used the office of the Prez to find even more stuff on Jane than was reported a few years ago.
Play dirty and go after Jane now! Trump will if Bernie wins the Dem nomination.
A self admitted Socialist cannot win. Plus as mayor Pete says Sanders isn’t even a Democrat. Sanders health is a big minus – his lack of transparency (health & finances) yet another minus. My bet is that Trump has Jane’s financial data — plus?
Putin will continue to use Bernie. This soap opera will go on and on and on.
Raven Onthill
Tuesday, Warren went full-on feminist. And it did something; the money poured in. I don’t know if she can get enough women to vote for her – women typically vote like their husbands – but she might. Also, African-Americans are beginning to support her. She has the advantage of being a white Christian, which plays well in the South; secular Jews seem very strange to Southerners. I think it would be a huge loss for the country if we do not make her President; I think she has the potential for greatness.
As for Sanders, generally old socialists like Sanders despise Vladimir Putin. It’s possible that Russia has a hold on him but, seriously, what could it be? He’s wealthy enough to be embarrassed by it. If he has a woman or a man on the side it would be known. I suppose the G.U. could be threatening his family. Considering how his every utterance is poured over by hostile opponents I don’t blame him for not releasing his medical records – it’s not like Trump, where it’s likely that his tax returns show he’s actually not that wealthy and also would provide evidence of money laundering.
As for Bloomberg, it is possible that, despite his faults, that he has a sense of civic responsibility.
Me, I worry that there is as much covert antisemitism (Bloomberg is also a Jew) and anti-socialism as there is anti-black racism.
Morzer
@Major Major Major Major: I’ve been trying to work out who gets to be Little Marco.
Ken_L
“Russia Russia Russia!” as the Trumpmonkeys say with a sneer. And of course it’s important to know who Russia is trying to get nominated/elected, although information about HOW they’re doing it would be even more helpful.
But does anyone sincerely believe Russia is the only country trying to influence election outcomes in America? Who’s Israel supporting? Who are the Gulf States supporting? What about China? Brazil?
Can the intelligence agencies answer these questions, or are they busy fighting the last election seasons’s war?
Raven Onthill
@Ken_L: China is probably supporting Bloomberg, who has business connections there.
Also, “It seems hard to believe that Bernie Sanders was the only Democratic primary candidate who was warned by the authorities about the Russian cheating.” – https://twitter.com/beyerstein/status/1231107811045756928?s=20
slightly_peeved
@NotMax
If Sanders gets a majority of delegates he gets the nomination. Not sure how easy that would be for Warren to stop without torpedoing her own campaign in the process.
If he doesn’t, and everyone else agrees on an alternative, they get the nom without saying a word against Sanders.
My read (not an American so big grain of salt here) is Warren plans to go into a contested convention as the best person to bring the Democratic Party together. She doesn’t have to get in big fights with Sanders to do that.
NotMax
@slightly_peeved
Acknowledge your point as logical; the thing is that counting on a contested convention is at best an iffy proposition.
MomSense
@schrodingers_cat:
Biden also brought up immunity for gun manufacturers and was the first to say that Sanders has been saying the same things for years but never gets anything done.