I had to look at my calendar to see what day of the week it is just now. It’s only Wednesday. What the goddamn fucking hell? It should be Thursday at the very least. But then I would have missed the Vegas debate. Preview of me watching the debate later tonight:
Not really. I’m not even sure I’ll watch it. I just want it all to be over before we lose our fucking minds. Primaries were a lot more fun when there wasn’t a giant orange fart cloud suffocating the globe.
Here’s a fresh thread for your pointless sniping needs! ;-)
JPL
I woke in the middle of the night and could not return to sleep, so it’s doubtful that I’ll watch. The moderators are more concerned about ratings than democracy so the questions will be posed to cause incitement.
Baud
Remember when Chris Christie knocked out Marco Rubio in 2016 by making fun of his preset anti Obama attack line. I would like to see Bloomberg do that to Bernie when he starts going into one of his stump speeches.
Then I would like to see Klobuchar hit Bloomberg with her shoe until he drops out.
Then I can relax.
Mnemosyne
I’m just going to check this site and see what other people think. I’m over debates at this point.
Plus it’s date night, so G and I will be out eating tasty appetizers and drinking adult beverages anyway.
Baud
Also too, the first candidate to slap Chuck Todd wins my vote.
Baud
@Mnemosyne: You’re going to check in here on date night?
mrmoshpotato
Debate about the debate? Ok!
Comrade Scrutinizer
The more I think about Sanders, the more I think he’s the best alternative to Trump that Our Overlords have available. Consider that OO don’t really have party loyalty, who running is the best choice for them? If Trump wins, they are happy. If Trump doesn’t win (and he seems to be in an uphill battle right now as far as popularity goes), what’s the safe choice? Sanders is not a Democrat, not likely to make any legislative headway, old, sick, and an irascible old fart. Pumping media support to Sanders shuts down Democrats who would be a better fit politically and tempermentally, and if effective sets up a Trump-Sanders contest in which the only sure loser is all of us.
I’m starting to lean toward just throwing up my hands and sitting the whole thing out if Sanders gets the nomination, while at the same time trying to figure out why we are dealing with him again after 2016.
Ugh.
tobie
It’s my husband’s birthday. I’ll be out for dinner with him and will forego the Vegas boxing match/debate. I hope the sisters join forces and show they’re a hundred times better then all the men.
LuciaMia
Alcohol definitely the necessary lubricant.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Everyone needs a bathroom break at some point. ?♀️
cokane
@Comrade Scrutinizer: The media isn’t boosting Sanders. This is rightwing radio level conspiracy nonsense.
If the media has any perverse incentives in this race, it’s to make it a “competitive” race for as long as possible, because that’s the surest way to drive ratings.
Mnemosyne
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
I will say four words to you that people on Twitter are currently scaring the hell out of themselves with:
Vice President Tulsi Gabbard
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Baud: That’s really risky. Calling Wilmer out on his mindless, robotic stump speech is like saying the N word.
Cacti
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Because the PTB took the wrong lesson from defeat in 2016: That sucking up to Bernie was a future winning strategy.
Then Pelosi won the House back by running on the ACA, and the “Justice Democrats” showed they’re virtually unelectable outside of the deepest blue districts, and the above theory was blown out of the water.
But no one at the DNC paid attention.
cokane
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Having one simple, memorable stump speech is actually good politics in a crowded primary campaign.
Cacti
Absolutely. We already learned today that it’s just like birtherism, asking Bernie to honor his word about releasing medical records since his heart attack.
Because of reasons.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@cokane: There is a double standard. Imagine if Elizabeth Warren refused to release any tax returns and medical records after surviving a massive heart attack, you think they would give her a free pass.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Cacti:
Purely as an intellectual exercise, if they were electable outside very blue districts, would you want to see them win? In other words, do you like the policies they advocate for (if not in exact form, but the ideas themselves, such as free college that many other developed nations have, etc)?
That’s where I’m at. I like his ideas, which is why I prefer Warren. All I see is a continuing shift-ward ever further right that has occurred for the last 40 years in some respects. 50-60 years ago we went to the Moon and did things. People were far more accepting of large-scale government programs because they were investments in our society
cokane
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: He hasn’t gotten a free pass, at all
MJS
I’m hoping Elizabeth Warren decides she’s had enough with this erasing shit and makes noise by going after Bernie. The only pretext she needs to get past the “we said we wouldn’t attack each other” pledge is 1) he said he’d release his medical records, now says he won’t, so he’s not trustworthy and/or 2) the now popular video of him extolling the virtues of the Soviet Union, which makes him uniquely unelectable among the Democratic contenders. The media won’t be able to ignore her after that.
evap
I’ll be watching the debates with some like-minded friends. Lots of wine will be drunk. I made some cookies with my donkey cookie cutter and decorated them with blue icing. I’ve been walking around all day with low-level anxiety and I hate it. I am picturing Bernie winning the nomination resulting in the rethugs winning the presidency, keeping the Senate, and retaking the house. Then I start reading about Bloomberg and imagine him becoming the nominee and flaming out amid reports of sexual misconduct, etc. etc. *sigh* I’m flying to Europe tomorrow and won’t be back for 3.5 weeks. Or maybe I won’t come back.
Major Major Major Major
I’ll watch the first hour probably. Honestly, at this point I’m excited to watch everybody yell at each other. I don’t vote until April and I’m undecided and I don’t have much impact over anything, so entertainment is always nice. Assuming nobody does anything that’ll actually damage a candidate in the general.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
He’s largely been untouched by the media if I understand correctly
zhena gogolia
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
As I said the other day, she’d be asked to post EKG results every week.
Mike in NC
Pretty sure that the orange fart cloud will be tweeting his brain-dead insights for the duration of the debate. Hard pass.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
I’ll be happy to see Warren tear both Bloomberg and Sanders a new one, hopefully
cokane
@MJS: These are niche issues
RedDirtGirl
@Cacti: PTB?
Elizabelle
@evap: Lucky bug for the trip away. Happy jet trails!
Yutsano
@cokane: Show me one major press column critical of Wilmer. Or one critical news report. I’ll wait.
And no debate tonight. I have had a massive shit day, all I have in my house is two beers, and I have way too much stuff to do after a really shitty day at work. The last thing I need is Bernie wagging his finger at me and Bloomberg pretending little humans matter.
MattF
Somewhat OT. I’ve started reading ‘Dark Towers’ by David Enrich, which tells the tale of Trump’s relationship with Deutsche Bank. The book starts by telling the history of the bank up to the go go years, and about a hundred pages in, Donald makes his appearance
About another 300 pages to go, so we shall see.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mnemosyne:
How about VP Nina Turner? With a president who’s close to 80 and has had a heart attack.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
Sanders being untrustworthy is a “niche issue”? Or the video of him praising the USSR, a totalitarian state? Come on
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): They’re very invested in the horse race so his polling numbers, at least, get weirdly bad spin even though they’re… super good!
But he also does get a free pass (or at least benefits strongly from sexist double standards) in a lot of ways.
JPL
@Mike in NC: His aides normally arrange a maga rally at the same time because he’ll need a boost to his ego.
evap
@Elizabelle: Thanks! It will be a relief, although I will be following politics closely. I have packed several politically themed t-shirts, including my American International Traveler Apology T-shirt: “My president is an idiot. I didn’t vote for him” in the six official U.N. langauges. I first wore it during a trip to Germany in Feb. 2005.
MJS
@cokane: This is snark, right?
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I’ll be happy to see Bloomberg tear Sanders a new one tbh.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
And yet, somehow, it’s only this year that the media is taking note of the fact that Bernie voted for and campaigned on the very same crime bill that he excoriated Hillary for doing an interview about. ?
They all just forgot to mention it in 2016, I guess.
cokane
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Sanders not releasing his medical records is, yes, a niche issue.
Sanders does not praise the USSR wholly in the video. It’s an out of context snippet where he praised two specific things, and in the rest of his speech, criticized the USSR.
But yes, talking about a regime that hasn’t existed for almost 30 years, is indeed a niche issue.
Major Major Major Major
@Yutsano:
This is pretty much Chait’s beat at NYMag, if that counts. Good friend of the blog McArdle also had one today at WaPo. Off the top of my head.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
cokane
@Mnemosyne: Wow, it’s almost like the media devote coverage based on someone’s likelihood of being the nominee
Mnemosyne
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That’s the other possibility that people are freaking themselves out with. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
cokane
@Yutsano: I mean, Rubin in the WaPo is an easy one. Just about every NeverTrump Republican has gotten a major piece talking about how he shouldn’t be the nominee — in all the major outlets.
Edit: some links i found in a few seconds of googling
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-poses-a-quandary-for-vulnerable-democrats/2020/02/07/e8a4fac8-491a-11ea-bdbf-1dfb23249293_story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanderss-magical-thinking-on-climate-change/2020/02/13/3944e472-4ea5-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Really? I haven’t seen that, but then I haven’t been paying as much attention recently. I’m worried that the firehose of shit will destroy those numbers, and he makes it pretty easy for Trump to demagogue him
Definitely a sexist double standard. He had an MI and the media didn’t really care. Clinton had some pneumonia (which can be serious too, especially in older people) and she was suddenly on death’s doorstep! Never mind that women tend to live longer than men, Sanders is in his late 70s, and recently had a severe cardiac event
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Imagine if Elizabeth Warren was chronically unemployed until age 40, was married 3 times, and abandoned her 2nd spouse and child, forcing them onto welfare.
The media would give her a free pass – right.
Betty Cracker
If I were advising the candidates, I’d say stage a revolt against the moderators because it’s going to be a shit-show. No more wrangling over the finer points of policies that don’t have a chance in hell of going anywhere without Congress. Everyone gets equal time to make their case on why Trump has to go and why they’re the candidate to beat him. What’s NBC gonna do, cut their mics?
Archon
@cokane:
In what universe is evaluating the health records of a 78 year old Presidential candidate who had a heart attack a few months ago a “niche issue”?
pacem appellant
I need to some good news about Warren. Barring that, just some good news. Can we get some cat picks?
cokane
@Archon: Hmm… You know BJers who inaccurately predicted who minority voters would support, and who inaccurately predicted that Sanders would flame out early… might wanna I dunno, reevaluate what they think are important issues?
Do you seriously think a majority of Democratic primary voters are concerned about this issue?
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Yes, and like they give certain people free passes that are revoked once they’re no longer useful for tearing stronger candidates down.
Sab
@Baud: burnpesq did on his wedding day.
JPL
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Whose family was on welfare? I missed something.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
Yes, just like Trump not releasing his tax returns or being secretive about his medical records and his unexpected visit to Walter Reed. Totally a niche issue. Also, it’s not like we’re being asked to elect Sanders to the most powerful office in the world and all the stress that entails after he’s had an MI, right?
@cokane:
I admit I haven’t watched the video in question, but if you don’t believe the GOP will try to twist this to scare people, you’re delusional. It’s true there is no perfect candidate and if the Wingnut Wurlitzer can’t find something damaging they’ll just make it up, but Sanders makes it so easy just by being who he is. He doesn’t help his own case
It won’t be for many low-info independents if the Trump campaign/GOP has anything to say about it, and they will. Look at what happened to Labour under Jeremy Corbyn last fall. How do you explain that? Reports of McSally linking Mark Kelly to Sanders already in campaign ads is evidence of this. How do you think moderates in swing districts/states are going to fare during re-election having to run with Sanders at the top of the ballot?
Baud
@cokane:
Depends what the records say?
zhena gogolia
Sanders hasn’t flamed out partly because Putin is helping him. And hurting Biden.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Dude. We have had two (2) primary events so far, out of 57 that will happen over the next four months. It’s a wee bit early to be declaring victory based on a certain someone’s second-place standing.
zhena gogolia
Morzer
@Baud: Surely it’s time for stealth trillionaire Baud to enter the race and annihilate mere billionaires like Bloomberg.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): There was an Onion article a few months ago that summed up a lot of his horserace coverage, “MSNBC Poll Finds Support For Bernie Sanders Has Plummeted 2 Points Up.”
But yeah, for the most part he’s taking a lot less scrutiny than the other candidates. Part of this, I’m sure, is the assumption that he’s a known quantity after 2016, just like how we don’t hear much about Biden’s checkered past.
Another part must surely be how journalists spend a lot of time on Twitter, and Twitter tends to be very pro-Sanders; some don’t want to take the heat, some are legit fans, and some are just steeped in pro-Sanders sentiment all day.
And some people do write things critical of Sanders!
(As a side note, I miss when The Onion was comprehensible to people who didn’t spend all day on Twitter. Damn Millennials.)
MJS
@cokane: This is the delusion that’s going to give us 4 more years of Trump. It’s like you’ve never observed what the media does to Democratic candidates in a general election. Declaring something a “niche issue” is something the media does, not you, or me. And if you think they won’t run with Bernie “flip flopping” on providing his medical records, you really haven’t been paying attention. And the “snippet” that I’ve seen is over 2 minutes long, and includes his wife saying that she was impressed with “the openness and optimism” of Soviet Russia. There are at least 4 devastating commercials in that “snippet.” Plus, it serves to inoculate Trump from his ties to Russia, as the media will be all too happy to equate Bernie’s support of the USSR however many years ago with Trump’s ongoing affair.
Archon
@cokane:
Are you asking me if I think the majority of Democratic voters have concerns over Sanders age and health???
Brachiator
@MJS:
This kind of thing could backfire and create a lot of sympathy for Sanders. Plus, he might just get someone to lie about his health, like Trump has done.
The Soviet Union doesn’t exist anymore, and Trump loves Russia and Putin. How is this supposed to hurt Sanders?
ETA: Can anyone point to the Soviet Union on a map?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@zhena gogolia:
That tweet is from 2016 btw
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@JPL: (link)
Morzer
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Ummm… Corbyn was a terrible and historically unpopular leader with a truckload and then some of disturbing baggage. Plus the Labour manifesto looked like a random selection of giveaways and nonsense that very few people found credible.
geg6
You couldn’t pay me enough to watch it. Not enough money in the world. I only hope SPW is actually introduced and allowed to at least say hello, but pretty doubtful since NBC/MSNBC seem so determined to pretend she doesn’t exist.
Cacti
I support many of them as general concepts, but find too much dogmatic insistence of “this way or nothing at all” when it comes to their causes.
Another problem is that with the American left, phrases like “free college” and “Medicare for all” are tribal markers as much as serious policy positions. As such, they are often undefined or poorly defined as concepts.
Cacti
@RedDirtGirl: Powers that be.
Major Major Major Major
@Brachiator: Anecdotally, we have some family friends who are super turned off by Sanders’s past writings and statements. They’re never-Trump recent independents, however that might affect your calculation.
Mnemosyne
@MJS:
The Bros have declared that there is no Trump/Russia connection and we’re all just paranoid about totally normal contacts between US government officials and officials from a hostile foreign government.
Because they don’t care about Russia, I think they have NO clue how quickly Bernie’s ties to Russia/the Soviet Union will be used against him.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Brachiator:
The GOP/Trump campaign doesn’t care. They’ll try to weaponize it in GE ads if Sanders is the nominee and paint him as a Stalinist. It’s the low-info independent voters that would be susceptible to this.
Sab
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Agre. Elizabeth Warren is not all that wildly progressive. She is about where a lot of Democrats outside of Dixie were in the 1960s and 1970s. Capitalism with some rules.
cokane
@Morzer: Moreover, polling said for a long time that Corbyn led Labour would lose in a landslide.
Polling is saying the opposite about Sanders v Trump.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: He is hiding something for sure. May be this was not his first heart attack.
gene108
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Had a similar thought in 2016, but it was what if Hillary had a kid out of wedlock in 1969, like Bernie.
She would not have risen to where she is today.
That’s a serious double standard, not just from the media, but society.
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
Since when have the Republicans failed to accuse Democrats of doing the exact things they themselves have done?
Cacti
@gene108: Hell, imagine Barack Obama was a serial adulterer with 5 kids from 3 different baby mamas.
He’d have never sniffed the White House, and it would have been held up as an example of “moral rot” in the black community or some similar nonsense.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: Agreed no more debates on the finer points on healthcare policy
cokane
@Archon: Biden, Sanders and Warren are all quite old. And collectively have an overwhelmingly majority of Democratic support.
That should answer your question.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Brachiator: HA!
Barack Obama was a 7 year old child, living in Hawaii in 1968 and yet the media tried their damnest to blame him for the Weather Underground and Saul Alinsky.
schrodingers_cat
@Cacti: He would not even be elected to Congress.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Cacti:
That’s completely fair and makes sense. The “my way or the highway” thing is a big turnoff. Who cares how we get to a goal, as long as we get there in the end?
gene108
@Mnemosyne:
I think everyone’s tired of the primary. Pick someone already, and get it over with.
We want a candidate NOW to take on Trump, and not have to wait until July to make it official.
Major Major Major Major
A man in his late 70s who has a heart attack has a 5-year survival rate of less than 50%, so I think some amount of his health records (redact the shit out of his STI tests or whatever, I don’t care) would be nice to see.
schrodingers_cat
@gene108:
They tried to shame her for Bill Clinton’s dalliances
cckids
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I’d rather see Bloomberg hit Bernie, with fair, accurate attacks; let Rose Twitter & the media destroy him for a change.
Warren can stick with her strong point – going after the rich and entitled, ie, Bloomberg
ETA: Or what Major/4 said at #38
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
@Morzer:
For now. Just wait when the GOP takes the gloves off in the GE. It will happen to whoever the nominee is, but I think Sanders is particularly vulnerable
cokane
@MJS: There’s no evidence that Sanders’ comments on the USSR are going to get traction. Every candidate is going to get tarred with the socialist label.
Again, there’s no empirical evidence that this is actually damaging to Sanders. Matchup polling shows him outperforming other more “moderate” Democrats against Trump in the general. If you’re going to eschew the only good evidence available in favor of your own speculation, you ought to have a compelling reason for doing so. And talking about a state that’s actually just a historical memory to most voters doesn’t qualify, imo.
MJS
@Brachiator: People don’t vote for someone out of pity. And better someone hit Sanders with this now then let him skate on it until the general, when he will be blindsided by the hypocrisy of the Republicans and the media when they make an issue out of his health, but not Trump’s.
You know who can point to the Soviet Union on a map? Older people. You know who votes? Older people. But regardless of whether it will sway any votes or not, again, this shit needs to be brought up now, and Bernie needs to have to respond to it on his feet, and get the media reaction to those responses, so we know what we’re dealing with if he, God forbid, wins the nomination.
JMG
Biden will go after Bernie and Bloomberg. He has to. He has to show some verve because his image right now is zombie candidate.
cokane
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I mean the GOP was able to turn Kerry’s war service into a liability, and I don’t think anyone could have predicted that at the time. And now they have more money and fewer scruples about honesty.
I’m not actually sure there’s any potential nominee without some vulnerabilities.
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
Who thought that an email server would be Hillary Clinton’s downfall?
debbie
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Or just vote early for Donald Trump. //
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Yes, exactly!
It’s completely asinine to paint that as a “niche” issue. I mean, it’s a reasonable ask. McCain was quite old and frail in 08 and he picked Palin for his VP. Sanders would have to pick somebody palatable to much of the Dem base if he gets the nomination.
I wonder who he would choose for a VP, anyway?
schrodingers_cat
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Tulsi fucking Gabbard
debbie
@MattF:
Terri Gross is interviewing him today on Fresh Air. I plan on catching the rerun of the program tonight.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Sab:
I think what’s unique about Warren is her focus on corruption as a systemic problem outside of just Trump (Harris recognized it too). He’s just a symptom a disease that infects American society
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Morzer: Is that why Wilmer lost Iowa and badly under performed in neighboring New Hampshire to a 37 year old small town mayor.
Major Major Major Major
What Sanders ought to do and what Sanders has to do are not the same thing. I don’t think his VP selection will be conciliatory, should he secure the nomination. Nothing else he does is.
debbie
@Major Major Major Major:
They probably are leaving that to the GOP. //
cokane
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Anyone who says they will sit out the general because Sanders is the nominee is truly showing their ass.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
So, Gabbard? God forbid he picks Jill Stein or even Mumia
cokane
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: And the other candidates? How did they perform?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
I acknowledged this. However, I think Sanders is more vulnerable than others, personally, to this. He has good numbers now because the GOP media machine hasn’t really attacked him yet
mrmoshpotato
@Baud:
That’ll just make me like SPW even more!
debbie
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
But what a symptom!
I’d like someone to lead off with the news about Trump offering Assange a pardon if he denied Russian hacking of the DNC.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cokane:
Well, Buttigieg beat him in Iowa where he he won in 2016, in a caucus, which is supposed to be where he is strongest. Not a good sign
The other candidates are where they are because of Biden and now Bloomberg sucking a lot oxygen out of the room
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Good point.
Betty Cracker
@cokane: Yep. That’s the Susan List!
Mnemosyne
@cokane:
If Sanders is the nominee and he picks someone rational as his VP, like Warren or Harris or Stacey Abrams or Julian Castro, then I would probably hold my nose and vote for him despite knowing that he’ll be about as successful as Jesse Ventura.
If he picks Gabbard or Turner, I’m writing in Hillary Clinton.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@debbie:
Oh Trump is an existential threat to American democracy for sure
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: No he is motto will be suck it Dems, if he does win the nomination. Or he may run as an independent in the general like he does in Vt.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
I would lose my faith in this country if any of them accepted a VP slot with Sanders.
Brachiator
Gotta do some work tonight, so not watching the debate. I figure that all the real contenders should just say that any one of them will kick Trump’s ass and be done with it.
Bloomberg is not a real contender.
Sanders is not my guy and I do not think that he should be the nominee. But I only got one vote. If he does well in the primaries, then he may be the real deal.
MJS
@cokane: The “socialist” label is going to stick a lot more to one of the Democratic candidates than the others.
We won’t know what gains traction, and what doesn’t until the actual general election or, if someone brings it up now. So hopefully your theory that his reversal on releasing his medical records, and praise for the USSR won’t gain traction will be tested tonight.
Lastly, the only “empirical evidence” we have so far, of anything, are the votes in two tiny contests. You’re not counting polls as empirical evidence, are you? Because a quick Google search of “Clinton Poll Pennsylvania 2016” brings up a poll that showed her with a 7 point lead in mid-October. I wouldn’t put too much stock in head to head polling with Trump 9 months from the election.
Mnemosyne
@MJS:
Given how far off the polls were for IA and NH, I’m not sure there are many polls we can trust at all right now, even for events that are coming up soon.
Amir Khalid
@cokane:
A few more niche issues to consider:
Cacti
They won’t even have to reach back far for material.
In 2011, Bernie was blowing sloppy kisses at Ecuador and Venezuela, in an op-ed calling them “places where the American dream is more apt to be realized” than the United States.
cckids
@Mnemosyne:
If he picks Gabbard or Turner, he won’t even win CA. The Senate and probably the House will be gone as well.
chrisanthemama
What a time to be alive.
topclimber
@cokane: I agree with you that in a base-driven election, commie-loving Bernie just confirms GOP bias and means not so much to Dems.
Fidel-ophilia is an issue in Florida, which I don’t think we win anyway. But Bernie’s staunch support for worker revolutions in our own Hemisphere might play well with voters who fled right-wing death squads. Another boost for Latine turnout.
Am I dumb to think that soft on Fascism plays fine with the electorate, but soft on Communism is fatal? Let the GOP hippie-bash and wrap themselves in their flags and see how it plays with anyone under 60. Above that age, the battle was fought to a draw. Anyone younger paying attention to how Trump was ready to play patsy with the Russians and blackmail an ostensible ally to gain dirt on Biden will not be impressed.
On the other hand, the health issue is far from niche. If the MDs are telling Bernie to slow down so he can rehab, are we running the risk he collapses during the general election? I would like to know before I crawl over a lot of sharp glass if he is the nominee and he can’t be crawling with me over the finish line.
trollhattan
We’ll be at my kid’s likely final HS soccer game and the debate will just have to deal with our absence. Hope they go after Mike and Wilmer hammer and tongs.
Morzer
@cokane: Matchup polling isn’t worth much at this point. And Biden still looks more electable, if you are using it to keep score. Bernie removes any chance of taking the Senate and is likely to lose you a chunk of anti-Trumpers who voted for the Blue Wave. I can’t see how that’s a good prospect for the Democrats in any way.
topclimber
Yes I am dumb…to doubt (not think) that soft on Fascism plays fine with the electorate, but soft on Communism is fatal?
Please tell me I outran the jackals!
Mnemosyne
@topclimber:
A lot of Latinos from Central America fled one step ahead of left-wing death squads, so they won’t be much friendlier towards a socialist than Cuban Americans would be.
Uncle Cosmo
@cokane: You’re a fucking idiot. And a Bernista. But I repeat myself.
Among other things, you & your ilk are soooo STUPID you don’t understand that 4 years of ShoutyWaggyFinger flailing around in the White House & failing to deliver on a single element of his “program”** will put a full-blown fascist (& one much more able to use the powers of government to his advantage than Needy Amin) into the Presidency NLT 20 January 2025. And then truly WASF.
Bernie isn’t “the revolution” – he’s Putin’s catspaw for destroying the revolution via his own shitheaded vanity. This is not rocket science but youse geenyusses in the Sanders camp, like your half-demented candidate, can’t find your collective arse with both collective hands.
** In quotes because it isn’t one, really, just a bunch of shouting points.