Eleven years ago today, near the bottom of the worst recession in generations, I signed the Recovery Act, paving the way for more than a decade of economic growth and the longest streak of job creation in American history. pic.twitter.com/BmdXrxUAUf
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) February 17, 2020
Meanwhile:
This is a remarkable accomplishment given the apparent law against mentioning Warren’s name in media coverage of presidential primaries. https://t.co/JOgjgbp3vG
— Jamison Foser (@jamisonfoser) February 17, 2020
(Yes, I too wish Harris was still in this race. We can dream… )
This weekend, I knocked 150 doors for @ewarren here in her hometown of Norman, Oklahoma. Some observations follow… 1/
— Ben Alpers ?? (@Ben_Alpers) February 17, 2020
Bernie supporters, including those who'd made up their minds for Sanders, were almost universally complimentary about Warren. And all were courteous. A heartening reminder that this website is not the real world and most Sanders supporters sound nothing like Bernie Twitter. 3/
— Ben Alpers ?? (@Ben_Alpers) February 17, 2020
I cannot recommend enough going door knocking for @ewarren. Not only do you get to know a place better (even if you've lived there for over two decades), it even makes you feel marginally better about this country. And it's the best way to help Warren win! 4/
— Ben Alpers ?? (@Ben_Alpers) February 17, 2020
I sheepishly said I had him listed as an independent. He said that's his registration but he always votes Republican. I thanked him for his time and walked away. But as I did, he came out of his door and thanked me for taking time to participate in the political process. 6/
— Ben Alpers ?? (@Ben_Alpers) February 17, 2020
That shouldn't be such an unusual occurrence. But in this moment of such heated anger between the parties, it really stuck with me. 7/7
— Ben Alpers ?? (@Ben_Alpers) February 17, 2020
OzarkHillbilly
Virginia Democrats join Republicans to reject assault weapons ban bill
Blech.
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone ???
rikyrah
That’s my 44??
NotMax
Holy moly. Can’t speak as to whether the upcoming movie will be any good or a hot mess but that’s one hellluva impressive cast as shown and listed toward the end of the trailer.
MagdaInBlack
@NotMax:
Looking forward to this one. Hoping not “hot mess” ☺
Betty Cracker
All the research I’m aware of says personal voter-to-voter outreach is the most effective voter mobilization method. That squares with advertising principles for any product: people trust peers more than organizations peddling a pitch.
I wonder if there’s ever been a study comparing the effectiveness of door-to-door canvassing vs. handwritten postcards from voters? Quick Google search turned up nothing.
Personally, I’d rather receive a postcard than a knock on the door, and I’d rather write postcards than canvass. But I’m sort of a hermit, so my preferences may not be widespread.
tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat)
Good evening, from the other side of the globe.
Sent my ballot in to California today. I hope Customs does a little better with official ballots. When the post office hears I’m sending mail to the US, they always let me know that I should expect it to take 10 days to 2 weeks. It used to take a lot less.
Happy to read that Nevada turnout has been up. Over 50% of Saturday’s voters were new voters. I hope that trend continues.
Betty Cracker
@NotMax: I’m a sucker for Wes Anderson flicks, and this looks like a doozy!
Betty Cracker
Bloomberg qualified for the upcoming debate. Good, I guess?
tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat)
@Betty Cracker: Amy K has been saying that she can’t beat him in ad spending but she can beat him on the debate stage. I guess we’ll see.
JPL
@NotMax: With Wes Anderson, one never knows.
Chyron HR
Kraux Pas
@MagdaInBlack: That did look very enjoyable. I keep convincing myself Bill Murray had died. I blame Zombieland.
Betty Cracker
@tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat): Makes sense. Warren has gone after him pretty hard too. Should be interesting! Steyer hasn’t qualified and probably won’t. Good riddance.
Kraux Pas
@Betty Cracker: That moment when a bigger, badder billionaire shows up with his bags of bucks.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: Good because now he can answer for all of the sexist and racist comments he has made as well as explaining why he supported the “stop and frisk” policy as late as last year. He has a whole lot of explaining to do.
OzarkHillbilly
A long read, but worth the trip:
These are the people Republicans fear and hate.
Patricia Kayden
Thanks Obama!
debbie
@rikyrah:
FB is telling me Trump went ballistic over this tweet. Yay!
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: You mean the ones that are pro life… I hope the democratic candidate mocks their so called pro life stance because they are anything but.
debbie
I’ve decided to vote early. I want one candidate and nothing will change that. Should that candidate drop out before the primary, my vote still would not be for any of the candidates I don’t want.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
eclare
@OzarkHillbilly: Very good article, thanks.
Betty Cracker
@Kraux Pas: I mean, since we live in a Citizens United-compromised democracy, kudos to Steyer for supporting a lot of great Democratic candidates over the years and building support for impeachment with an expensive ad blitz. But his presidential run has been a pointless vanity campaign. Instead of setting those millions on fire, I wish he’d supported the viable candidate he agrees with most or invested in GOTV efforts or down-ticket races. He wasted our time.
Geminid
@Chyron HR:
I intend to give up Bernie bashing for Lent. But it’s not here yet!
Baud
Many Trump supporters are perfectly cordial if you meet them on the street. That real life doesn’t mirror the internet doesn’t address the criticism.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I think it’s a good thing. People need to see him in a setting he doesn’t completely control.
wvng
I made the mistake of going to Twitter to read President Obama’s tweet, and found it followed by “you lie” responses by trolls. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised, but still. It really shouldn’t be impossible to admit to the clear statistics.
JPL
@Baud: I guess if you like ignorant assholes.
debbie
@debbie:
Yep, it bothered him bigly.
Whatever it is he has for breakfast, I hope he chokes on it.
OzarkHillbilly
I mean them all. Every last one of them share trump’s xenophobia.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@debbie:
I just went and checked and there are tweets saying Obama was trying to take credit for the “Trump economy.” They were too literate to be written by Trump but I’m sure they capture his reaction!
ETA: I see you looked too. The use of “depleted” was what made think Trump didn’t write those, but as you said, he’s not happy.
Immanentize
@Betty Cracker: I would have liked to see Steyer run ads supporting Impeachment when, you know, impeachment was happening.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I should be able to laugh at this, but it depresses me.
different-church-lady
Unfortunately Twitter is the only reality the media cares about now.
satby
@Baud: obsessive behavior takes longer than a momentary encounter to show.
Baud
The next debate is tomorrow. Ugh.
Immanentize
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Ha! Dershowitz is now a fake news source in the fever swamp.
PS I don’t think Dersh would ever attack Soros. But maybe he has even lost his semitic protection focus.
Immanentize
@Baud: I thought you liked debates?
satby
Yes, they do. They’re deeply uncomfortable with white people who don’t think exactly like them or go to the same churches, so not-white people worshipping in different languages is frightening.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
The only possible response.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I like them spaced out. And with different candidates.
Matt McIrvin
@Betty Cracker: It is good. I think the main reason Bloomberg’s doing so well all of a sudden is that the only thing most people know of him is his ads, which make him out as forthrightly anti-Trump and not much else. Beyond that, he’s a cipher that people can project anything onto–his awful recent past just gets buried. He needs to be up there on the stage with the knives out for him.
Baud
Steyer would have a better billionaire than Bloomberg.
I’m really out of tune with Democratic voters.
schrodingers_cat
If BS-is-my-friend Warren doesn’t get the highest number of delegates does she throw her support behind the Vt Senator?
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I take it, as usual, he never actually shows his proof.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Today show just showed a Virginia poll that didn’t even have her name on it.
Immanentize
@Baud: I really think Dem voters just want to beat Trump. No matter who it is, as long as Trump is gone. What happens the day after doesn’t matter much at all.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Did you see Bloomberg ad about the bully in the WH ? It says what all of us are thinking. Yesterday’s ad about the BS cult was pretty good too.
Immanentize
@Baud: Yeah, I’m not clicking over on that one either.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I agree. That’s the only reason Bloomberg is doing as well as he is. A lot of people who aren’t in the Bernie camp don’t have confidence in the Dem candidates.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I saw the BernieBro ad. I wish one of the other candidate had went there. Bloomberg going first taints the issue.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: well what can I say except that her strategy of hugging BS was not a great one.
Immanentize
@Baud: When did this agreement to erase Warren chrystalize? Before or after Iowa’s third ticket win over Biden?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: It is what it is.
@Immanentize: It’s eerie.
TS (the original)
@Baud:
No-one has yet voted for Bloomfield, the media & the ads are ramping him up but I’m waiting for the votes.
Immanentize
@Baud: It is interesting — 2/3 don’t have confidence in Sanders. But they don’t have confidence in anyone else yet. Lots of casting about.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Appeasing the cult has come at high price for Ds. Whocoodanode ?
Immanentize
Duplicate again
Baud
@TS (the original):
I agree. But unless he bombs the debate tomorrow, I doubt his poll numbers will collapse. Some significant set of voters find him interesting, and I assume most of that is lack of confidence in the other candidates.
Immanentize
@Baud: That’s one word for it. It is so pervasive across almost all platforms. It feels like an agreement.
Kraux Pas
Sounds like a recipe for failure.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Just got a short story rejection. Boo! Publishing sucks. My writing sucks.
Sigh. Thank god my coffee is ready now.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Bernie seems to have won the hearts of about a quarter and a third of our voters, which is no small feat, and it benefits him in a fractured field. It does seem like the other candidates have decided not to challenge him directly, which has also helped him.
Immanentize
@Kraux Pas: who knows? It’s not my recipe for success, certainly. But it is possible that Dems really mean it when they say, “Anyone but Trump.”. Which means maybe anyone can beat him, including a nasty richy rich like Bloomberg.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@TS (the original):
I assumed at first that the media were so atwitter over Bloomberg because they had a New York view of the country and thought everyone knew him. But the polls give him some credit. Of course, they gave Biden credit before Iowa too.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
You are great. They are assholes.
Princess
@Immanentize: It does. And someone made that point on twitter, and the Boston Globe’s Michael Cohen came back and said it was Warren’s own fault because of her poor fourth place showing in Iowa. You can’t make this up.
(She came third and outperformed her polls)
OzarkHillbilly
Until the day after.
schrodingers_cat
Someone has unearthed a video of BS praising the Soviet Union. Democratic Socialist my ass. He was a Communist sympathizer during the Cold War. Must say that Putin is thorough. Heads he wins tails we lose.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I don’t predict losses. But with Bernie, I think the entire election turns on the Midwest Obama-to-Trump states and Iowa and Pennsylvania. I don’t see Florida in play, if it ever could be, or any of the emerging purple-y states.
I haven’t seen polling, so that’s just my guess.
Immanentize
I am off. Immp gets his post op. CT scan for residual cancer today. No reason to think there will be any, but I never imagined he would have any at all in the first place. Best to worry about what one knows rather than what might be possibly wrong. So, trying to tamp down both our anxiety until Thursday. Try not to kick anyone else off the site this morning, ‘K?
Baud
@Immanentize: Best of luck for a clean bill of health.
Immanentize
@Princess: Even TPM had a sub-header that Warren came in fourth in Iowa. I complained.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: Ain’t that the truth!
Another Scott
@OzarkHillbilly:
My state senator was one of the four. He’s a really, really good guy and I was surprised to read that he was one of them. I wrote him to express my disappointment and said I’d be watching…
He released a statement about it. Dunno…
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
America loses with a BS candidacy. D politics will become a mirror image of R politics if he is the nominee. You can take it to the bank.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud:
Thanks. At least they were quick.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize:
Best of luck to you and the Immp.
TS (the original)
@Baud:
At the minute he seems to be the Biden substitute for white folks, but I doubt he’ll get much of the non white vote. I trust the polls at the minute rather as I trust Trump – not at all.
Baud
@TS (the original):
You sure? Bloomberg seems to be polling well in southern States, where our voters are AA.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: He is taking the fight to the man in WH instead of debating how his version of M4A is the best.
Sab
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I was reading one of your books last night. That’s why I am so tired today, because I was up too late last night. I would have stayed up to finish but I have to go to work today.
Nelle
@Immanentize: You both will be on my mind. Best to you both.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Credit where it’s due. Obviously having money helps, but a lot of people with money would squander it running a poor campaign. He’s used his money to run a good campaign (so far).
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: I don’t believe in prayer so fingers crossed. Not that I believe in that either.
gvg
@TS (the original): Yes, it’s notable that polls haven’t been matching voting results. I fear that is more of the difficulty of polling in a cell phone world among other things. What worries me is that makes it difficult to tell if a vote has been messed with.
Betty Cracker
@Immanentize: Best of luck to you both!
germy
JPL
@Immanentize: Will be thinking about you and younger imm.
Kraux Pas
Too bad it isn’t just Dems who get to vote, huh?
eclare
@Immanentize: I am still waiting to see how SC turns out. I vote on Super Tuesday.
schrodingers_cat
@eclare: Same here.
Kraux Pas
But with Bloomberg D politics will simply become R politics. No need for any mirror.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
(via nycsouthpaw)
I’m sure Donnie and Mikey P. will get right on that. I’m also sure we’ll hear questions about it in the debate tomorrow.
Right? Right??!
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
eclare
@schrodingers_cat: Saw your post about being elected a state delegate on a dead thread, congratulations!
schrodingers_cat
@Kraux Pas: then defeat them both.
satby
@Immanentize: keeping you both in my thoughts and heart today.
schrodingers_cat
@eclare: Thanks are you going too?
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
Maybe he’ll flame out. I don’t think he’s as charismatic as his ad team.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
I’ll be thinking of you.
Kristine
@Betty Cracker:
Very much the same. I won’t phone bank–I have spam blockers on my phone, so most of the canvassing calls never get through, and I won’t do something to someone else that I won’t put up with myself. I’ve hated going door to door since they made us sell candy in grade school.
But I will happily write postcards.
schrodingers_cat
When I am on my laptop I will put up the two videos of BS in the Soviet Union. In one he is shirtless singing songs with Russkie women
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: His ads are really good
zhena gogolia
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Your writing is great! I agree that publishing sucks, though.
Kraux Pas
If only it were up to me. Unless you’re talking single combat.
Alas; I, too, am way out of line with most of the D electorate. I consider it a minor miracle we got Obama.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I was reproved by G&T for posting the one where he’s all ga-ga over chandeliers in the subway. What a joke. I’m serious, the chandeliers in the subway are an actual joke for anyone who’s spent any time in the Soviet Union. I mean really, a joke to think that chandeliers in the subway are any kind of indicator of quality of life.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
@Kraux Pas:
Maybe we made a mistake telling ourselves that the GOP was strong and we need to be more like them to succeed.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: Sadly, voters don’t do nuance.
It would be the height of irony if past words of praise for a few aspects of USSR life were deemed more disqualifying than aiding and abetting the former KGB agent’s goals in destroying American democracy.
Kraux Pas
Be still my heart.
Baud
@Kraux Pas:
I certainly am. It’s Klobuchar’s best chance.
eclare
@schrodingers_cat: I live in Memphis.
Kristine
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Send it out to the next pub on the list!
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
Sounds like standard IOKIYAR to me.
schrodingers_cat
@eclare: I thought you were a fellow Masshole.
Soprano2
I saw that. I believe that somewhere there is tape of him praising Fidel Castro, too. Things like this are why I’m once again feeling full-on panic listening to NPR talk about their poll showing Sanders with a double digit lead in all the states. The Bernie people think “well we can just put it in context and then it won’t matter”, as if they haven’t paid any attention to any political campaign in recorded history. Sure, the Trump campaign is going to play that clip in context for them. /s Do they honestly think context is going to make a difference when there is video of their worship object praising the Soviet Union? Do they really think putting that “in context” is going to make a difference to voters in WI, MI, PA, OH, FL, AZ, and the other states we need to win? To Trump supporters Obama will forever be the guy who called them “bitter clingers”, even though the context of the quote shows he wasn’t doing that at all. They think Hillary called them all “deplorables”, even though the context shows that’s not what she did. The only good thing about a Sanders’ candidacy is that it might once and for all shut them all up about how we would have won in 2016 if he had been the candidate, but the tradeoff in two more Trump-appointed Supreme Court judges, having half the federal judiciary be appointed by Trump, and the destruction of all the mechanisms of justice in the federal government, not to mention the total trashing of all our alliances with Western countries, is way too high of a price to pay just to prove them wrong. I’m in a pretty dark place this morning, and really pissed off that Iowa and New Hampshire seem to have caused Sanders’ support to accelerate.
Baud
I hope I destroyed all the videos of me praising the Mongol hordes.
eclare
@Soprano2: Plus that info will kill candidates in downballot races.
TS (the original)
@Baud:
Do people really forget – or did they never take any notice. Maybe everyone likes rich old guys?? But I have zero faith in polls in recent times.
PST
@OzarkHillbilly:
That’s okay. It works whether or not you believe in it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kristine:
Done!
Sending it out until hell won’t have it.
TS (the original)
@Immanentize: Best thoughts for a great result.
Baud
@TS (the original):
People deal the best they can with the choices they are offered.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Sab: Holy cow. Now I feel better, and not because of the large dose of caffeine I just drank. :-)
@zhena gogolia: Publishing is just so competitive. Everyone wants to write, and I can see why. It’s fun.
Kraux Pas
I didn’t know Bill Maher posted here. I personally recommend against using the contemporary* Republican party as a role model in any way.
*I refuse to say modern
gene108
@schrodingers_cat:
Video’s of him praising the USSR after his honeymoon have been around, but nobody has given them much attention.
They are saving it for the general, should he win the nomination.
I think his supporters are blind to the damage this video, and other things from his past, can do to him as a candidate. They really think everyone will love socialism, once they see it in action. Even the better behaved ones seem very naive.
Baud
@Kraux Pas: Oh I agree. But I’ve seen that sentiment all the time. Even here.
OzarkHillbilly
From the FTFNYT:
It’s a good story with an ending that is yet to be written. For some reason or other I don’t have much hope for a happy ending.
germy
On FRONTLINE tonight:
I wonder if they’ll mention Bezos asking Bloomberg to run for president.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@OzarkHillbilly:
You’re right. It is a good story with an uncertain ending. It makes you want to cry for what the country is becoming.
JPL
@gene108: If he wins, they could lose the house too. Say goodbye to the ACA.
Quinerly
@Immanentize: good luck with everything. Sending positive thoughts.
Betty Cracker
@gene108: I talked to some young Sanders supporters this weekend, and they seem convinced that he’ll bring new voters off the sidelines to make up for those his platform scares off. I am…skeptical. But they are convinced it will happen.
donnah
Dorothy A Winsor, do not despair. Lots of writers have literally papered entire walls with rejection slips. Stephen King wrote about his sixty rejection slips stuck to the wall before finally being published. And I’m thinking that JK Rowling had a stack of them, too.
Small comfort, I know, but you’re in good company.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: The posts of you praising jackals however…
FlipYrWhig
@Soprano2: Prediction: if Sanders is the nominee the campaign against him is “Bernie Sanders hates America.” And I honestly don’t know what he does to counter that. He is terrible at the kind of patriotic hope that Obama and Bill Clinton perfected, and that everyone liked about the 2016 Dem convention. He’s cranky and dour by nature. It’s going to be a huge problem.
Don Beal
I know this would be anathema to you, but as someone who supports Sanders and Warren (slight preference Sanders) I really like D.D. Guttenplan’s piece in the Nation. He suggests they combine their campaigns but reman separate on the ballots. Then whomever gets the most delegates when the primares are over would assume the no. 1 position while the other would run as V.P. in the general. The best way to be sure Republicans like Bloomberg are not “selected” by the DNC.
OzarkHillbilly
@PST: Plus I don’t have to worry about being turned into a pillar of salt if I’m wrong.
gene108
@Baud:
Republicans have gotten away with catastrophic shit, but still have a strong following. It’s tempting to think shameless arrogance is the same as strength.
The bigger problem we have is forgetting we won big in 2018, and 2019.
We have PTSD from the 2016 election, and there doesn’t seem to be a way to deal with it. Flipping the House, state governments, etc. wasn’t a cure.
I don’t know what can make us see good days ahead, instead of the utter dread of Trump-4-ever.
OzarkHillbilly
@Dorothy A. Winsor: In a just world with a benevolent God, the ending would be a foregone conclusion.
Baud
@gene108:
Not me. I entered the primary with a lot of hope and optimism. Then people I liked fell by the wayside or have been coming up short. There was a time I would have been disappointed with Biden as the nominee. Now I’m hoping against hope that he can pull it out.
It’s the primary and only the primary that has me down.
JPL
@Betty Cracker: Apparently they didn’t come out of the woodwork in NH and Iowa. He received fewer votes this time around in NH
Betty Cracker
@Don Beal: Aside from the almost certain fact that neither candidate would be amenable to that deal, Sanders is 78 and had a heart attack recently, and Warren is 70, though she seems in robust health. Would it really be a good idea to put two septuagenarians on the same ticket?
Bostondreams
@Betty Cracker:
He likely WILL bring in new or usually non-voting folks off the sidelines to vote for him…but he is just as likely to bring as many or more out to vote against him. It’s not likely these folks will suddenly stay home.
germy
@donnah:
And Rowling, after her great success with Harry Potter, tried submitting a novel under a different pen name. It was rejected by a few publishers. Which proves, I guess, that it isn’t what you do, but who you are (or who knows you).
gene108
@OzarkHillbilly:
Trump admin has been nitpicking over exact wording of immigration law, in order to make it harder for people to legally immigrate here, and to extend visas, if they are here legally.
They very quickly went beyond “we’re only opposed to illegal immigration” to finding ways to eliminate forms of legal immigration.
Chyron HR
@FlipYrWhig:
“I only hate America because it’s so awful!”
Betty Cracker
@JPL: I pointed that out, and they had answers! They said most people are disconnected from the political process altogether and many think it’s a rigged game anyway. (They are not 100% wrong here, IMO — lots of people DO think that.) Their theory is that if these disillusioned folks see Sanders winning the nomination (not getting “screwed again,” as they put it), they’ll become engaged.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Betty Cracker: As you know, there’s no evidence so far showing those new voters have come off the sidelines. For what it’s worth, data from Iowa and NH seem to indicate the opposite. (ETA: Or what JPL said at #141)
@donnah: Very true. If you can’t take rejection, don’t be a writer.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I think their anaysls must be correct since it’s impossible to disprove.
Chyron HR
@Don Beal:
Have… have you not heard about the snake thing?
Yes the dastardly DNC might “select” the candidate that gets a plurality of delegates.
germy
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I’d just like to point out that these are presumably not “Bros” who have bought into the lie that Bernie was screwed out of the nomination in 2016.
schrodingers_cat
@germy: Robert Reich could not win the primary to become a governor in blue MA. I would not be taking advice about winning campaigns with the socialist tag attached from him.
germy
The rot goes from the top all the way to the bottom:
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker:
Yes guillotine memes are an excellent recruiting tool.
mrmoshpotato
@Kraux Pas: LOL You keep convincing yourself? Do you want Bill Murray to die? Woody Harrelson would be devastated.
schrodingers_cat
@Kraux Pas: For you, singing with Soviet comrades in the Soviet Union
Shirtless BS
ETA: Rose Twitter thinks it makes him look cool.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
I believe the line is: you didn’t leave them, they left you.
germy
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Ha! Thankfully, I’m nowhere close to joining the Republicans.
Sadly, I’m closer to understanding why some people do than I ever have been.
schrodingers_cat
BS loves the Soviet Union
topclimber
@Baud: I for one will keep supporting Warren and pray that she has the money to stay in the race. I hope she either turns it around before the convention or arrives with a few hundred delegates at a deadlocked one.
If it comes to a choice between a probable Sanders flame-out in the general or being completely punked by Mayor Mike (R-Lite) when it comes to advancing Democratic ideals, EW is going to look mighty attractive.
BTW, has all of Mike’s ad blitz moved the dial any on Trump vs. Dems in any of the markets he has inundated? My guess is no. More likely it has depressed mainstream Dems and intrigued a few others. But I am willing to be proven wrong.
OzarkHillbilly
My first reading of that was “they’ll become enraged“.
Betty Cracker
@schrodingers_cat: Huh? (I know what guillotine memes are, but I don’t understand the connection to my comment.)
@Baud: Nope, but they say the disaffected voters they’re talking about who have given up on politics — their peers — believe that.
gene108
@Betty Cracker:
Naive is the term, I would use for a lot of Sanders supporters.
I was hopeful and optimistic, after Obama’s election that saving the auto industry, increasing health insurance to people, etc. would get people’s attention, and cement a Democratic majority for years.
When none of that materialized, and right-wing fear mongering won out, I learned a bitter lesson.
mrmoshpotato
@Immanentize: All the best to you and Immp.
Kraux Pas
@mrmoshpotato: It’s more a subconscious thing. Like “this is something that happened.
@schrodingers_cat: God, too much work. They wanted an e-mail address. Fine, I gave them an old one I don’t use anymore. Now I have to verify it? No thanks.
Sorry.
schrodingers_cat
Betty Cracker:I was being sarcastic. BS supporters seem to be inordinately fond of guillotines
Dorothy A. Winsor
Can someone tell me what the Federal Judges Association is? I see they’re holding an emergency meeting about Trump’s interference in the Stone case.
schrodingers_cat
@Kraux Pas: YouTube video
gene108
@Baud:
I was excited. Record number of women contesting the presidency. A diverse field.
Then Biden gets in the race, and displaces other candidates, without the name recognition.
And I go from feeling excited about the prospect for the first woman President, second AA President, etc. to – not just an old white guy being President – but the oldest white guy ever being President.
Just took the excitement out of it. Plus the fact it’s a year plus campaign, we won’t have an official nominee until July, as well as Trump getting exponential worse, and I’ve gone from being excited to wanting the primary to end.
The primary feels superficial, when all I want is someone to beat Trump.
Kraux Pas
When did he run? I’ve been voting in MA since 2002. I don’t remember that.
OzarkHillbilly
@Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s an association of Federal judges. Any other silly questions? ;-)
Kraux Pas
@schrodingers_cat: My experience is the guillotines are coming from a unique Sanders/Gabbard cross-section.
schrodingers_cat: Hey, at least everyone was shirtless. When in Russia, do as the Russians do, I suppose.
mrmoshpotato
@Soprano2: Well put. Thank you.
schrodingers_cat
@Kraux Pas: DSA primary challenger to Susan Collins is selling merchandise with guillotines on it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@OzarkHillbilly:
LOL. True! I guessed that. I was just wondering if they had any authority and it looks like they don’t. Unless you count moral authority, which doesn’t matter since the current administration has no morals.
Kraux Pas
@schrodingers_cat: Yeah, I saw that. Do we know her presidential preferences?
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Hope is not a strategy.
OzarkHillbilly
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Moral authority is all they’ve got, not that that counts for anything in today’s GOP.
Kraux Pas
It’s at least a coping strategy.
germy
@Kraux Pas:
Yes, the GOP side prefers marching with assault rifles to get their point across.
Omnes Omnibus
@Don Beal: Because the DNC is made up of secret Republicans?
I have an idea, why don’t people just vote for the person they think will be the best president and see how it shakes out? Don’t fucking overthink it.
WaterGirl
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, but if everybody stands up, regardless of how much power they have, we can reach a tipping point where right matters again.
mrmoshpotato
@Kraux Pas: I see. I recommend Zombieland: Double Tap btw.
Kraux Pas
Sort of like a revolution? Maybe renaissance is better.
Kraux Pas
@mrmoshpotato: I wanted to see it. I broke as a joke these days so don’t make it to as many movies as I would like. Worse, someone stole my Xbox so I have nothing to watch rentals on.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: Ok thanks. Either way, by their own reckoning, the lie has purchase among some group of voters. It’s not a nothingburger.
mrmoshpotato
@schrodingers_cat: Classy. Very classy. And I loathe Susan Collins.
Soprano2
@mrmoshpotato: You’re welcome. I heard something the other day that I don’t think Sanders’ supporters take seriously enough – theirs isn’t the only side whose supporters would be fired up to come out if Sanders is the nominee. Also remember, Trump doesn’t actually have to get voters in the swing states to vote for him – as we saw in 2016, all he has to do is get them to either stay home or not vote for president at all. And to whoever said it, naive is a kind word for most of Sanders’ supporters – my preferred word is delusional. They’re as much part of a cult as many Trump supporters, and they behave in exactly the same way. They are in total denial about how big of a problem Sanders branding himself a socialist is going to be in the general election, especially in the states we need to win, never mind those tapes of him praising Russia and Fidel Castro. Plus, the drag on the down ballot races will be something to behold. IMHO there goes any chance of us retaking the Senate if Sanders is the nominee, and the House might even be in danger. I’m not kidding when I say I see a 40-state Electoral College wipeout if he’s our nominee. But at least we’ll be able to say to his supporters, “See, we told you what works in Vermont won’t work in the rest of the country”. That won’t be much consolation to the people who would be really hurt by a second Trump term, though.
mrmoshpotato
@Kraux Pas:
WTF? :(
I checked it out from the library, so you might be able to see it for free once you can get a new DVD player.
OzarkHillbilly
@WaterGirl: That will depend on 80,000 or so voters in WI, MI, and PA. They didn’t do so well the last time around. ;-)
Kraux Pas
@mrmoshpotato: It sucked, man. The result of a huge string of bad decisions on my part after a breakup. I was on full tilt.
To this day, losing the Xbox still hurts more than the two-months-long fat lip I got in the process or the cash I lost which would have been enough to replace the damn thing.
mrmoshpotato
@Soprano2: Praising the Russkis and Fidel Castro? Hoooooooboy! I’m thinking 40+ state slaughter. Ugh.
Omnes Omnibus
@OzarkHillbilly: Let the people vote and those states will be fine.
Kraux Pas
@Omnes Omnibus: OK, which people should we let vote?
Chyron HR
@Soprano2:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha no. The worse Bernie loses, the louder his circus freaks are going to scream “He lost because he was forced to run on the neoliberal shitlib ticket!” And then he’ll run as an independent in 2024 to prove that his 2020 loss was all the “Democrat” party’s fault.
WaterGirl
@OzarkHillbilly: Well, even if the worst happens in November, god help us if it does, we can’t just lay down and die. We still have to fight for our country and the people who are living in it. And for the world, aka climate change.
mrmoshpotato
@Chyron HR: Just a sec. Let me get a chair to sit in so I can fall out of it.
“Berrrrnie didn’t fail. Everyone failed Berrrrrnie! Waaahhh!”
Omnes Omnibus
@Kraux Pas: In Wisconsin, it is all citizens over 18 who are not currently serving a sentence for a felony. Let’s start there.
Kraux Pas
And even if that doesn’t happen to any meaningful degree, someone will find two deranged people who think that and raise it to the level of a national emergency.
Seems out of character. If he was gonna do that, he woulda been had done it.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl:
When did it become “climate change?” I thought the rest of the world was still “here be dragons.”
Kraux Pas
Word.
FlipYrWhig
@Kraux Pas:
Reich ran in the MA gov primary in 2002.
FlipYrWhig
@Chyron HR: They’ll say “shitty liberals couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Bernie because they hate The Left THAT MUCH. It’s all their fault, as usual.”
Omnes Omnibus
@Kraux Pas: What did you think I meant? It’s not like I have been banging on about voter ID and voter suppression for several years now.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think the “rigged” framing is bigger than a specific lie about the 2016 election, unfortunately. A lot of people believe American democracy is a sham, that the outcome in both parties is rigged in favor of the rich and powerful and against them.
That’s why they’re drawn to populist outsiders on both fringes, I guess. But Trump’s example refutes the Sanders’ supporters’ theory that appealing to disaffected voters generates massive turnout. Trump really didn’t, did he? IIRC, he got about the same number of votes as Romney…
Kraux Pas
@FlipYrWhig: Ah, that explains it. Just early enough in my voting career to not have cared about a primary yet.
@Omnes Omnibus: Geez, I’m sorry I tried to make light of the situation. Even more sorry my joke apparentky fell flat.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
I agree that “rigged” is larger than the 2016 election. And there are contexts where it is accurate. But that’s all the more reason we should be intolerant when “rigged” is falsely used as an excuse for an unwanted outcome, because it discredits the sentiment across the board, and psychologically encourages people to be receptive to propaganda.
satby
@Kraux Pas: Bernie is not doing cardiac rehab or particularly following his doctor’s advice, so chances are better than even he’ll be dead by 2024. Harsh but true. Even if he was doing those things at his age with cardiac issues he’s not likely destined for a long life, and dementia from cardiac complications is no prettier than whatever the fuck Trump has. He shouldn’t be running at all now.
satby
@Baud: truth spoken there.
Immanentize
@Kraux Pas:
Vote for the living dead! Vampires for socialized blood distributions.
As one of my sage mentors once said, “You cannot repeal the actuary tables.”
Kraux Pas
@satby: You don’t have to tell me. I didn’t claim he would run in 2024; as a Democrat*, Independent, or otherwise. Frankly, he’s one of three people I seriously wish sat out this election. We’d be in a much better place.
*Except for the possibility of reelection, should he be elected this year
mrmoshpotato
@satby: If you will, allow me to add my usual “He should’ve fucked off in May 2016 when the race was effectively over.”
Sunday Sunday Sunday! Wilmer vs Dump! Will they both still be alive on Sunday!
Kraux Pas
@Immanentize: That makes you the second person to not notice that was a quote I was replying to.
Immanentize
@Kraux Pas: I know who you were replying to, this is a free flowing conversation. It was just easier to copy from you than go back. Mellow out, happens all the time here, let it slip into your unconsciousness.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kraux Pas: It’s a sore point with me. It is also one of the reasons I have been harsh on you in the past. Voting isn’t a form of self-expression; it is a right and a responsibility. I think we owe it to those who have bled and died trying to get it to respect it and take it seriously. And to always do it. I will be going out of my way to day to vote in a primary election where the only people on the ballot are the judges who will be running for the Supreme Court in the April election. Here endeth the lecture.
Kraux Pas
Wait, I’m sorry, did I use my vote in a way you disapprove of? Please explain.
Immanentize: Oh, I’m mellow, it was just weird.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
They must have just been to the banya. It’s quite innocent, but I’m sure DJT can make something sinister out of it.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I don’t disagree, but “rigged” covers a lot of ground. To name just one example, I don’t think I understood sufficiently in 2016 how much and how many people resented the alleged dynastic angle of Hillary Clinton’s run.
I knew that criticism was out there, of course — I argued with my husband about it during the primary! It pissed me off (still does) because there are sexist implications along with ignorance of how women access power in a misogynistic society, etc., etc., that I won’t bother preaching to the choir about in this forum. But I think that may have been part of it.
The Sanders supporters I was talking to are registered Democrats who are somewhat involved in the political process aside from just showing up to vote, so I have hope they’ll eventually learn that the “establishment” is us. But I don’t know how you reach people who aren’t even listening anymore.
My sense is, either a) we’ll get our shit together, defeat Trump and discredit the Republican Party that enabled him by revealing their crimes and taking the country in a different and better direction, or b) we WON’T get our shit together and Trump and Republicanism will become more entrenched, which would destroy OUR party.
It’s like a steel cage death match. No pressure!
Don Beal
@Betty Cracker: Their political philosophy is more aligned than any of the others in the field. I recall that Sanders team looked at Warren as a VP/Treasury Secretary and Warren has called Bernie a close friend for years. Their differences are mostly in the minds of the anti Sanders people. They bring very complimentary assets to the ticket. Sanders leads a grassroots movement that understands today’s problems will not be solved by government as it is now constituted. Warren has policy chops and less baggage for those who do not understand (or care to understand) what being a democratic socialist means. As for the age/health issues, I have the same heart problem and it is very manageable.
Soprano2
@Chyron HR: Ugh, I can totally see that happening, unless he dies of a heart attack first. I find myself wishing he’d have another heart attack his week, just to bring that back into the news. It’s like the press has completely forgotten about it!
Don Beal
@Betty Cracker: Their political philosophy is more aligned than any of the others in the field. I recall that Sanders team looked at Warren as a VP/Treasury Secretary and Warren has called Bernie a close friend for years. Their differences are mostly in the minds of the anti Sanders people. They bring very complimentary assets to the ticket. Sanders leads a grassroots movement that understands today’s problems will not be solved by government as it is now constituted. Warren has policy chops and less baggage for those who do not understand (or care to understand) what being a democratic socialist means. As for the age/health issues, I have the same heart problem and it is very manageable.
@Chyron HR: Super delegates= DNC selects the candidate
Soprano2
@Don Beal: The biggest difference between Warren and Sanders is also the most important one: There’s no video of her calling herself a socialist, or of her praising the USSR, or (I’ve heard it’s out there, anyway) of her praising anything about Cuba or Fidel Castro. Now, its true that Republicans might throw all of that at her, but with Sanders they can actually play video showing that it’s true!! If you think that won’t influence the casual voter in Wisconsin or Michigan or Pennsylvania, well that’s just delusional. None of the Sanders people seem to have any plan to fight back against that other than “hope” and “once people hear what he has to offer they’ll love him like I do”.
Betty Cracker
@Don Beal: Sanders is 78 years old and had a heart attack just a few months ago. It’s really irresponsible for him to still be in the race, in my opinion.
Chyron HR
@Don Beal:
Friendly reminder that the only candidate in the history of the Democratic party who has ever tried to get superdelegates to overturn the results of a primary was… Bernie in 2016.
Chyron HR
@Soprano2:
You know if that happens his demented worshipers are going to claim he was poisoned by the EEEEVUL DNC, right?
Chyron HR
@Kraux Pas:
Reminder: We know who you are. I know Bernie tells you that Democrats are the dumbest people to walk the Earth, but I assure you we fucking know who you are and how you used your vote in 2016.
Kraux Pas
@Chyron HR: I voted for Hillary Clinton. What’s wrong with that?
I mean according to you. I know plenty of people I expect to tell me that was wrong.
Also you’ve been in serious contention for the first person I ever use the pie filter on, having posted here since 07 or 08. Like you’re a serious dickhead to a lot of people.
Betty Cracker
@Chyron HR: Okay, that’s borderline creepy, even for someone with your history of deranged and baseless accusations inspired by visions of Sanders in your yogurt cup. Consider dialing it back several notches. Please and thank you.
germy
@Betty Cracker:
That fits a few commenters here.
TC
@Don Beal: That’s an interesting idea, but that article was written in Jan. Allot has happened since then including Warren’s terrible decision to go negative on Sanders and try to paint him as a mysoginist. She continues beating the identity politics drum and just can’t see it’s a loser for her campaign.
Fast forward to today with NH approaching and Warren looks increasingly irrelevant. Her party unity message isn’t working. Her support will continue bleeding off to Sanders for those progressives where policy is most important, and to Klobuchar (if she remains) for those who just want a woman elected. I’m sure mayor Pete will garner some but his campaigns long-term outlook is uncertain now that we move to more diverse states.
Bill Arnold
@schrodingers_cat:
FWIW, here’s full[1] video of that snippet circulating about Bernie Sanders praising the Moscow subway system, very low cost high-quality cultural events, youth programs.
Bernie Sanders on the Soviet Union Press Conference 6/13/1988 (Starting about 2:20)
In the bits that are not being circulated (who did the editing?) Sanders says he was surprised about the honesty of [soviet] officials about Soviet Union shortcomings in the areas of Democracy, health care and housing.
So the context mostly ameliorates the propaganda snippet being circulated. Unfortunately, aggregated American voters do not do context. This is a test of Sanders and his campaign, and he will need to spend a lot of effort fending off these attacks. So far he’s not done well, and his supporters have been inept(to be polite), unless their intention is to election Republicans.
F-in attack DJT and top Republicans, not Democrats, and yes, out-of-context stuff will be necessary[2] (if reasonably honest) because it means that DJT has to explain context. (His surrogates will try too.)
[1] Full-er – there is at least one cut (didn’t listen to the whole thing).
[2] I’m a tit-for-three(+)-adjudicated-tats(strikes) person.
Soprano2
Yes, this video that’s circulating is a true test of how the Sanders’ people can fight this off. I also saw something on Twitter about him supporting the Ayatollah in 1979 and saying the American hostages might be spies! Good Lord, if that’s true then it’s even worse than the praise of anything in the USSR!!! Sanders has never been truly vetted by a hostile campaign, that’s for sure.
Elizabelle
Bernie is unelectable in the general. The sooner he is out of the picture, the better.
@Soprano2:
Exactly.
Elizabelle
@TC: Pie pie.
Procopius
@tokyocali (formerly tokyo expat): I’ve been living in Thailand since 1982. My memory is that the mail took a serious hit after the Anthrax Letters thing after 9/11. First Class mail used to take about a week. After post offices world-wide adopted (undescribed) measures to prevent bombs and anthrax spores from being sent through the mails it started taking two weeks. Currently seems like my absentee ballot takes about ten days to get from here to Michigan.