Oh God, are you gonna watch? I’m gonna watch. Open thread.
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by Betty Cracker| 357 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads, Politics
Oh God, are you gonna watch? I’m gonna watch. Open thread.
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Baud
I hope it comes to blows.
Baud
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Betty Cracker
Oh God. I already want to put my head under the covers.
Another Scott
It took the AV people until the middle of Bernie’s first answer for them to turn on the correct microphones.
Liz walked out clearing her throat. I hope she isn’t sick.
We’ll see what happens.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
Why do the set designers insist on having stuff moving in the background? Makes everyone appear to be on a moving sidewalk.
Betty Cracker
Maybe it’s just you and me, Baud. That’s okay with me.
ETA: a-w-k-w-a-r-d.
mrmoshpotato
Kick out Steyer and Yang, and I’d watch. Instead I’ll ‘hang around for Scooby Doo’. It’s A Scary Night with a Snow Beast Fright.
Baud
@NotMax:
I wish they were fish. That would be cool.
jl
@Baud: “I hope it comes to blows.”
Since that comes from the Baud 2020! campaign, need to inquire what kind of ‘blows’ you are talking about.
Leto
*insert Clockwork Orange gif*
Seeing more of Trumpov’s Friday Firings. Just heartening that Trumpov “learned his lesson” and will “be more contrite”.
Betty Cracker
Okay, good unity shtick by Sanders.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Are you ready to rumble!
Maybe I’ll watch Kennedy v Nixon.
Betty Cracker
Wow, Did Sanders just say he he could have done a better job of turning out voters?
Kent
Mr. Steyer. My Dad’s 1955 Milwaukee Moose Lodge called and wants their tie back.
Martin
@Another Scott: I think Liz suffers from the same problem that I do that after a certain amount of public speaking my voice just goes. Cough comes along with it.
Either that or Goku gave her coronavirus… :P
Marcopolo
So I guess we’re going for the raucous crowd effect tonight. Don’t the moderators typically tell people to mute their applause?
I have no idea what anyone on the stage can do to have a break out moment at this point—unless they say something truly stupid & look awful.
Betty Cracker
Go away, Steyer.
Baud
“yes”
Marcopolo
@Betty Cracker: Yes, BS has been pretty honest about not accomplishing his turn out goals in IA—I give him credit for that.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Rather than JFK & RMN, watch in full Mario Cuomo’s barnburner “A Tale of Two Cities” address at the ’84 Dem convention.
Martin
@Marcopolo: I think we’re at the high risk/low reward stage of the debates.
SiubhanDuinne
Yeah, I’m watching.
Has Stephanopoulos always been this milquetoast, or has he changed recently? (Disclaimer: haven’t watched any of his programs for years.)
Jeesus. He’s really bad.
NotMax
My TV or has Buttigieg added a speckling of gray at the temples?
Baud
Bloomberg wins this debate.
O. Felix Culpa
Gaaah. Cost of M4A!. Shoot me.
Spousal unit: Shut up, Biden!
Another Scott
I’m listening to the ABC coverage on the web; it’s delayed quite a bit from the TV.
Bernie just said that he’ll unite Democrats, Independents, and Republicans behind a $15/hr minimum wage. He seems to think that there’s not any GOP opposition to it.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
Sanders wearing a back brace? Shoulder pads positioned so you could land a 747 on them.
Baud
This will be a yelling debate.
O. Felix Culpa
So we go from how much we love each other to attacking on healthcare costs. Yay. (Not.)
Shouty old guy is being shouty.
SiubhanDuinne
I truly don’t think I could survive four years of Bernie yelling and wagging his finger in my face.
Marcopolo
@Baud: If he runs ads during every break you may be right.
And, oh, look. , we’re gonna rehash M4A yet again. Gah, there is so much they could be talking about. If I were on this stage every time I had a chance to talk I would pivot to attacking Trump.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: I don’t think he would survive it either.
Baud
Amy is doing good here.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: From your keyboard to the FSM’s noodly appendages.
mad citizen
@Kent: Very funny! I noticed that tie.
Did not realize Mayor Pete is no longer Mayor. Move down to Fishers and I’ll vote for you for Mayor.
If Amy had done a purple hair wash to match her dark purple suit I’d be all in. She is bright, I can’t help but like her.
JMG
Bernie is loud. But as a native New Yorker, he has no idea anyone regards that as loud. It’s New York. Stylistically, he’s a combination of Jerry and George’s Dads from Seinfeld.
Betty Cracker
Let the two codgers knock each other out.
SiubhanDuinne
So far I’m liking Amy more than any of the others tonight. And I’m a Warren girl.
jl
Sanders has a such a big lead in NH, everyone will gun for him.
I’d like for them to take a big dent out his lead, since it might help Warren.
But so far, I think Buttigieg’s and Biden’s approach won’t do it all, might increase Sander’s lead.
Let’s see how Klobuchar does. Might be just me, but again, Klobochar far better on presenting specific and convincing centrist policy than the other centrists. Glad she didn’t talk about eating your spinach this time.
I think Warren better so far on effective counter to Sanders, but I’m prejudiced.
Baud
“Washington establishment”. C’mon Pete.
Baud
Good on Biden.
jl
@Marcopolo: It must be a journalistic rule that every debate includes a GOP talking point on health care disguised as a health care policy question.
O. Felix Culpa
@SiubhanDuinne: Amy did well, and I liked Elizabeth’s last comments too. Good pivot to we Democrats are on the side of people who want healthcare, we are the people who expand access to healthcare.
schrodingers_cat
Did Pete B get his eyebrows shaped? I detect an arch.
download my app in the app store mistermix
First debate I’ve watched and I can’t believe M4A is going first on Trump’s Kristalnachtt.
Baud
When Biden is good he’s good. But he’s inconsistent.
Baud
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
It’s Stephenopolous.
Cacti
In that case, should we just start calling him Pete the guy from Indiana?
Baud
Amy is the best so far. By far.
NotMax
@JMG
Oh, please. I’m a native Noo Yawker and managed, without pain or anguish, to assimilate to the stylings of the place to which I relocated.
O. Felix Culpa
Amy pivots to impeachment. Good for her.
Baud
Damn, Amy burning it up.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Yes go Amy!!
God that was a great burn.
Martin
@Baud: Pete has about the most ‘Washington establishment’ policy prescriptions of any of them. I think Biden is more radical.
O. Felix Culpa
Amy: We have a newcomer in the White House, and look where it got us.
Good line. I do not like the way Pete is running on the Republican attack line against the “Washington establishment.”
mad citizen
@Baud: Agree, Amy winning. We’re the same age.
Baud
Turn your TV on now. Bernie is giving his stump speech. Who knows when you’ll hear it again.
jl
Buttigieg as a talent for saying very little with many words. Kind of like a lot of my comments.
I guess I am bad person for wanting to drag the little twerp off the stage.
Klobuchar good at effective attacks tonight, but as other commenters have noted, Klobuchar seems to take personally Buttigieg’s doing better than she is.
Cacti
Yes, whatever we do, let’s not talk about the 60 trillion dollar hobby horse of the left, that will McGovern the election.
Another Scott
Ooh. Amy sticks a dagger in ex-Mayor Pete about the impeachment trial.
I wonder if Liz is going to get a question… Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@mad citizen:
Her hair looks great! A dark purple glaze would be fabulous.
Marcopolo
AK def the best to go after Buttigieg. I think it helps that that she really does think he’s a young, inexperienced twerp comes through in her comments. “We have a newcomer in the White House now—look where it’s gotten us.”
Baud
Good speech by Steyer.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Marcopolo:
I hate that over the top cheering, as if this was a game and the applauders are urging their team on. I’m trying out the theory that it’s a bad sign if voters are too enthusiastic about a candidate, as if they were swooning over a movie star rather than making a hire.
SiubhanDuinne
And good for Steyer. He’s the one to tackle the question of how can we beat Trump.
Spanky
Two? There are at least 3 on the floor. Maybe 4 if you count Snuffalupagus.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Christ Bernie took a wet blanket to Amy’s excellent pivot.
Cacti
I’d imagine Klobuchar’s tale is a familiar one to a lot of women.
Embarrassingly less qualified, young white guy gets jumped to the head of the line for the same job.
jl
@Another Scott: If that is what Buttigieg said, then he gave K a rhetorical knife and pointed the sharp end at his gut. Nice when you can use a quote to definitively dunk an opponent.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Pete sorry Trump ain’t gonna debate.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
[spit] My poor keyboard.
O. Felix Culpa
@Cacti:
Yes.
Martin
I’m not ashamed to say that the first candidate to show up on a debate stage with full-on blue or pink hair gets my vote.
Marcopolo
Oh, look, it’s AY—almost forgot he was up there.
mad citizen
@SiubhanDuinne: Yes, as a bald 59 year old midwestern man, I noticed how her hair tonight is waaay better than standard midwestern woman hair.
Does Steyer have something in his bottom teeth or is that always there?
jl
I think every candidate has some very strong quality in which they excel.
Buttigieg’s is issuing vague uplifting inspirational piffle.
NotMax
@Kent
No particular problem with his tie. In wintry New Hampshire a knitted tie is not at all out of place.
Mai naem mobile
I’ll vote for Buttigieg in the general but jeezus he reminds me of the tech bros guys like Zuck and the Uber Travis guy. The guys I see on CNBC who think they’ve reinvented the wheel by creating a sharing economy where they get their leecher percentage.
mad citizen
@Martin: We’ll have to wait until Megan Rapinoe runs for President.
jl
The theme tonight for the moderators seems to be ‘You propose to actually do something as president, can you explain how that will unify the country?’
Baud
Sad to say, Warren seems a little more stump speechy in this debate.
rikyrah
Martin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: We’re up against a guy that gets cheers when he references how big his dick is, and whether an audience member, or member of the assembled media deserves to have the shit beat out of them.
Let’s not handicap ourselves any more than we already are.
NotMax
@jl
Shall say it again. He speaks fluent fortune cookie.
jl
@Baud: Agree, though her health care talk was good with convincing specifics.
Chyron HR
“Sanders 2020: Unity OR ELSE”
Steeplejack (phone)
@Cacti:
“Hoosier Pete” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it
ETA: Hmm, “Hoosier Pete’s” sounds like an unpromising Midwestern cantina franchise.
JMG
Buttigieg continues to think that being extremely dull is the path to victory. This is weird since for both good and bad, his biography is very interesting.
O. Felix Culpa
Boo. Yang wants to move forward. No holding the president accountable. Big nope.
Martin
@mad citizen: Can’t come soon enough.
Mai naem mobile
@Martin: no love for purple?
Another Scott
Good answer by Liz about how important it is that government is accountable and isn’t corrupt.
Yang is such a lightweight. Why is he up there…
Cheers,
Scott.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Are the questions especially stupid tonight or am I just not inured to it?
jl
@NotMax: I didn’t mean to insult vague uplifting inspirational piffle. It plays an important role in electoral politics. But a little big goes a long way. Buttigieg thinks it goes almost all the way.
Baud
Bernie doesn’t answer if he’ll investigate Trump.
O. Felix Culpa
Bernie: The saddest thing is that you had Republicans in the Senate who knew better. They knew he is a crook, they knew he is a cheat.
Baud
Good on Pete.
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack (phone): What about Boring Buttigieg?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Yeah. She needs a good night too.
Martin
@Mai naem mobile: I’m down with purple – but none of this only when the sun hits it right bullshit. I want anime purple. Own that shit.
O. Felix Culpa
Good answer by Pete on Hunter Biden.
geg6
@SiubhanDuinne:
He’s never been good. Even when he worked for Clinton, he was vastly overrated. I can’t even find the words to convey my disdain for him. What’s sad is I really like his wife, who is fun, funny and down to earth. Every time I see her on tv, I end up yelling at her to dump that sycophantic coward.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: Exactly right.
Baud
Good on Biden!
NotMax
@jl
Platitudes and bromides are no substitute for ideas and policies.
Sprinkled in a speech, sure. But employed as debate? No thanks.
O. Felix Culpa
Shout out to Lt. Col. Vindman by Joe.
Shalimar
@Cacti: I go with “Pete who has no chance of winning Indiana”
Baud
This is definitely a you and him fight debate from the moderators.
O. Felix Culpa
Gaah. I hate these questions.
jl
@download my app in the app store mistermix: After some promising spurts of moderating in recent debates, I fear we are falling back into the corporate media swamp.
Oh for gawd’s sake… a question about preemptively cowering in anticipation of Trumpster attacks should make a difference. Trumpsters will ruthlessly and falsely attack whoever is the nominee.
So far responses are good.
Oh for Gawd’s sake, now another crap question! Ask K about some gossip about what HRC said about Sanders. So far, total crap from the moderators.
Bobby Thomson
@geg6: He’s a putz.
SiubhanDuinne
Wow. Thank you, Pete, for that full-throated defense of the Bidens.
And the look on Joe’s face while Pete was talking? I thought he was going to cry. I thought I was going to cry.
rikyrah
Betty Cracker
Good for Buttigieg on the bogus Biden investigation.
O. Felix Culpa
Amy: I like Bernie just fine. Then mentions legislation she’s worked on with him. Further, we need an optimistic economic agenda for America.
Duane
@Cacti: Pete Buttigieg, America’s Mayor! Is this too soon?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Baud: Amy and Joe did a good job defusing that last one.
jl
This debate may go down in history for the best responses to the most idiotic questions.
Idiot follow-up to idiot question to K about what H said about S.
zhena gogolia
@Marcopolo:
Harris would too.
O. Felix Culpa
Spousal unit: Amy is getting stronger and stronger in these debates.
jl
Yes, don’t like Buttigieg, but he did give a great response to a stupid question, which is often a hard trick to pull off.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa:
She’s clearly winning this debate.
geg6
@jl:
She’s not my choice but I don’t blame her for that. She is vastly more accomplished. Vastly. Like they don’t even exist in the same universe.
Marcopolo
@jl: This.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: As you mentioned earlier, Elizabeth (my fave) sounds mostly canned in her responses. Amy is on fire.
NotMax
@Duane
Puberty Pete. “He’s almost there.”
//
patroclus
I’m biased but I think Klobuchar is winning this debate, hands down.
Another Scott
Bernie reprises his King of Amendments in the House a bazillion years ago.
Cheers,
Scott.
geg6
@Cacti:
THIS. THIS. THIS.
Shalimar
@Duane: He already has a dozen more delegates than the last America’s Mayor got.
Steeplejack (phone)
@schrodingers_cat:
Meowch!
Betty Cracker
I like Klobuchar’s ability to speak in coherent sentences and paragraphs, even.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Nobody can say that back in the day we used to work with Republicans but they’ve all gone nuts in the last few years. It just isn’t in the DNA of these debates. Too far out of the frame.
JMG
Actually, Klobuchar has run a good campaign and is good in these things. Just hasn’t struck a spark because I’ll be long dead before the Democrats nominate another woman. Always cringing in fear of what happened the last time.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: I LOLed!
zhena gogolia
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
They’re always horribly stupid. That’s why I can’t watch.
debbie
@jl:
In keeping with the Mean Boss thing. Pass.
Betty Cracker
@jl: True. The moderating is horrid.
Baud
I think Pete handled that well.
Marcopolo
Good PB answer on using military force.
Fucking moderators are a fucking joke. They are asking questions in a way that suggests they welcome our living in a country where things resemble the movie Idiocracy.
jl
Maybe I am just super pissed that Warren seems ignored tonight, but have to say again that I think asking different questions to different candidates, without even an attempt to let them all answer or give them all equal time is inherent corrupt. Not a real debate. More like a joint press conference.
Idiot question about assassination. And the idiot moderator seems to be in love with it. Grubby gotcha gimmick grandstanding by idiotic moderator.
I think so far, all the candidates are giving good responses.
download my app in the app store mistermix
First good answer from Pete especially the 24 comment.
Baud
@jl:
No one is falling for the trap.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Agreed. It was a great answer.
jl
@debbie: If I were K, B would get under my skin too.
Baud
Bernie’s answer isn’t wrong, but it’s not very strong.
Mai naem mobile
@Another Scott: I saw a piece that said Yang fired a bunch of people after Iowa so he may be running out of gas. Maybe he drops out after NH.
O. Felix Culpa
I have seen no evidence that Amy is more than a demanding boss, which – in a woman – is too often turned into a a smear, while the same trait is admired in men. Pass on that unsubstantiated attack.
SiubhanDuinne
They all (rightly) are pretty pissed about the Vindman “firing.”
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: I have avoided him since I read his book about his time in the Clinton admin. He is a chickenshit, careerist wanker. Yes, I am being nice.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Warren gets a question. Is that allowed under the debate rules? /s
Again she has to push back against this beltway cw douchebag.
geg6
@debbie:
Or in keeping with the whole white men go to the head of the class, no matter how many brilliant and accomplished women they have to crush under the wheels to get there.
And I’m not even a Klobuchar fan.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: Indeed. As a native Mumbaikar I agree.
Another Scott
Good answer by SP Warren to the “the generals say we have to stay, why do you hate the generals?” question.
“Why won’t you listen to the generals? Hmmm???”
She’s good on this. Very good.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
So that shithead asking the idiot foreign policy questions is pretty boy Muir? His foreign policy questions are all framed as ‘Please explain how Democrats are not weak sissies”
Follow up on question to Warren is actually a good one, though. But next follow up to Biden is back to BS trolling again.
zhena gogolia
I wish I could watch it with you all but I can’t take the moderators.
rikyrah
He is a libertarian dudebro clown ???
O. Felix Culpa
I do not like shouty Biden.
Marcopolo
I love Warren’s position on pulling our troops out of Afghanistan & not using the military to try to solve problems that can’t be solved by troops on the ground. And she is so clear in how she lays this out.
Compare to Biden’s comment after hers.
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: They are godawful.
geg6
@rikyrah:
Fuck that noise. Buhbye!
Omnes Omnibus
Damn. That’s cold.
O. Felix Culpa
@Marcopolo: Yes, Liz did much better on the issue of Afghanistan and the use of military.
Mai naem mobile
I am a Warren supporter but she needs to sharpen her answers. She needs memorable tweet size answers. People have short attention spans(thanks teevee.)
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s making me laugh tho.
ETA: Partly because Obama himself has a Pat Boone element in him.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa: Agreed.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, the moderators are bad. Very bad.
But the serious candidates are giving decent answers.
The DC press is wired for Republicans. They need to be able to get their message out in spite of that.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Never read the book, and won’t.
All the moderators tonight are pretty bad, but GS is in a class by himself.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@jl: He’s just an empty suit parroting beltway horseshit like every other big network anchor. Really bad.
jl
Almost all the questions are ‘explain how Democrats can possibly not suck?’, ‘why are you such sissies?’, ‘how about you two fight’, ‘i command you to dish on what somebody else said about somebody else’
I find watching the moderator train wreck grimly amusing, a spectacle most hilarious disgusting, so will plug along with the moderator clown show. The good answers and good behavior of the candidates, make up for it, so far.
zhena gogolia
I realized that the fabulous Howards End adaptation is on Amazon Prime, so I’ve been watching it a second time and enjoying it even more. I have been loving the music, and I just discovered it’s by Nico Muhly!
I need something soothing tonight after all the disgusting news.
Martin
@rikyrah: Boy, is this the wrong time to answer that question in that way. Dems are pissed and want blood. Don’t straight up deny them that.
TaMara (HFG)
@jl: I think that’s when I really stopped watching – why are they not all answering the same question? That, to me, would be a better sampling of how they are different or similar.
patroclus
Sadly, Klobuchar isn’t winning the debate anymore – mostly because they haven’t called on her for nearly 30 minutes.
Marcopolo
@Mai naem mobile: Article said he “laid off” 240 staffers. Pretty sure his funding is drying up after rolling snake eyes in IA. He could pare down a lot and keep going through Super Tuesday but he doesn’t have a real path to the nomination.
Mai naem mobile
@rikyrah: oh,hell fucking no. Jeezus. Wtf. If that’s the case then we let every fucking prisoner out of prison and dump several hundred of the especially violent crime ones into Andrew Yangs neighborhood.
Baud
@patroclus: Truth.
zhena gogolia
@TaMara (HFG):
All the debates have done this dumb thing.
hilts
It’s not factually accurate, but I like to refer to him as the Buddha of South Bend.
NotMax
@Another Scott
Shame, shame on those responsible for stocking the backstage craft services table with Kool Aid.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Barack Obama, Drink!
Betty Cracker
It’s like Biden’s people saw Sanders’ numbers and said, “Joe! Yell more!”
Mai naem mobile
Okay Bernie is sounding like the Coca Cola I’d Like to Teach the World ad.
Stephanopoulos has always been douchey. Its like he got what he wanted from Clinton and then treated the Dems like they have cooties .
O. Felix Culpa
Break. Can we haz better moderators now?
zhena gogolia
I just saw the Biden question to Buttigieg on PB’s twitter. How disgusting that the journalists are doing Trump’s dirty work for him out in the open now. Vomit. Buttigieg gave a great answer.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
The one time it worked was with the Vindman outrage.
Baud
I want Hillary Clinton back.
Brachiator
Wait. There’s a debate?
Fortunately, I am working late, so I will miss it.
O. Felix Culpa
Gaah! There was fighting! There was blood! Let there be more fighting and blood and gore! Attack Democrats!
smedley the uncertain
@Cacti: Indiana pete
Marcopolo
Good Sanders moment on the world spending $ on fighting climate change instead of on weapons.
To reiterate, if I’m on that stage I try to pivot all my answers to attack Trump & I push back on the moderators for questions that assume some R talking point/position or beltway conventional wisdom view is actually right.
NotMax
BTW, watching on the Xumo channel, through the Roku box. No commercials! Yipee!
SiubhanDuinne
This seems to be an excessively long bathroom (commercial) break.
zhena gogolia
Boy, Buttigieg’s twitter is swarmed by Bernie bots.
Steeplejack
@schrodingers_cat:
Is that in the Bronx?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Yep.
O. Felix Culpa
Have you ever heard PDQ Bach’s commentary on the opening of Beethoven’s 9th Symphony? The break commentators sound just like that, only dumber. HORSE RACE AND FIGHTING!
zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa:
Bobby Corno really blew that note!
Chris Johnson
Not watching. The thing is, if these folks aren’t smart enough to know all this is a set up for wrecking them, they aren’t smart enough to be President.
I think quite a few of them are smart enough to know what’s up. I’m gonna trust ’em with this. Anyway if there is no ‘all is lost!’ moment, the media will damn well invent one. So it’s a defensive game, because that’s the only game in town. Do your stump speech, hang together, and get out of there with as little damage to the Dems as possible, in spite of everything the moderators can do.
NotMax
@smedley the uncertain
“Indiana was the dog’s name!”
:)
Another Scott
ABC is doing play-by-play in the middle of the debate (after the big commercial break).
It’s horrible.
Cheers,
Scott.
Marcopolo
@zhena gogolia: Or folks posing as such. I’d assume it is a mix of real & fake people.
Baud
I’m voting for the first candidate who says “That’s a dumbass question, George.”
Unless it’s Bernie.
jk
@Betty Cracker:
This is where Biden’s white male privilege shines brightest. I can’t imagine a woman or person of color who was as consistently incoherent as Uncle Joe ever attaining front runner status.
jl
Maybe listening to these debates is affecting my brain for the worse. But I am enjoying the moderators and the talking heads. The little anchor discussion break has all the class, flair, and content of an NFL halftime BS session between smarmy sportscasters. The woman actually started to make some interesting points, but I assume a producer ordered her through the earpiece to knock it off.
I find the news celeb behavior hilarious and I guess I am losing my mind.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: I’ll join you in that vote.
zhena gogolia
@jk:
He has a stammer. I’ve never heard him be incoherent.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
The Bronx has old and new delis. Slight difference.
;)
Baud
Apparently, they’ve voted Amy off the stage.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Because she’s a smart woman. Elizabeth has been largely invisible too.
Baud
@jl:
You need help. Baud!Care! covers that.
206inKY
Amy K is on fire. I was ready to jump ship for Bloomberg, but I think I need to keep the faith. I like how Bernie demonstrated why nobody lines him by insisting it was the Sanders-Klobucher amendment, not the other way around, when Amy was right in the middle of defending him.
Baud
She’s alive!
JMG
The reality is, every network moderator is there to do the bidding of their evil media conglomerate. They’re not journalists, and the Democrats should have had local reporters as moderators everywhere they went and told the networks to suck it if they didn’t want to cover it, accompanied by some unsubtle antitrust threats. But offending television is beyond the imagination of any American pol.
O. Felix Culpa
Yang is yammering about…something.
O. Felix Culpa
Oooh, a question to Amy, who is a cop.
Baud
@O. Felix Culpa: Ha!
Marcopolo
download my app in the app store mistermix
Yang is not good. I thought his rep was relaxed and human. That opiod answer wasn’t good.
Martin
This blog needs to host a debate.
Seriously, there’s no fucking way we can’t do a better job.
jl
@Baud: “You need help. Baud!Care! covers that.”
Thanks for the offer. But right now, gallons of stale beer and bags of snack food would make things worse.
OMG, K mentioned dorritos! Is Baud 2020! mind channeling policy proposals to the candidates?
Baud
@Martin:
Sounds like a challenge.
hilts
@jl:
Klobuchar is obviously far more qualified than Pete to be President. so I think it’s perfectly reasonable for her to feel a little pissed off that he’s leading her in the polls.
O. Felix Culpa
Finally, Bernie being called on his record on guns.
ETA: He has a D- record from the NRA. Slacker. I would have an F.
patroclus
Good pivot by Klobuchar on the gotcha question to the upcoming settlement on opiod pushers providing the funding for treatment facilities. Glad to see her called on for the first time in nearly 45 minutes.
Martin
@Another Scott: They need to add instant replays. “If you look closely you can actually pinpoint the exact moment Amy breaks Pete’s heart in two.”
Betty Cracker
@zhena gogolia: Google “Biden record player.”
@Marcopolo: She does seem contemptuous.
khead
I don’t think Warren has spoken since before 9 PM. Amy has been cruising.
ETA: Spoke too soon about the Warren shutout I guess.
Sab
Damn. Want to watch debates but spouse insists on another fucking Simpsons rerun.
zhena gogolia
@Martin:
I would be glued to the screen.
O. Felix Culpa
Liz, finally.
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
I liked his record player answer.
O. Felix Culpa
Liz: Treat gun violence as a public health emergency.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Warren is giving a good answer. Too bad Steyer and Yang beat her in Iowa so they get more talk time. /s MSM really wants to erase her.
NotMax
@Martin
“Butt shaving. Pro or con?”
:)
Another Scott
SP Warren – we treat guns like a public health emergency, not a “one and done, or three and done” thing.
Absolutely.
And again she pivots to corruption.
And she brings up the filibuster.
Yeah.
Ooh. A SCOTUS question.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@NotMax:
For cats. Absolutely!
O. Felix Culpa
Did Biden’s eyes always look so tight and funny?
Mary G
I forgot to turn it on until just now, and am I sorry I remembered. Why is everyone yelling?
O. Felix Culpa
Pivoting to Supreme Court. Joe is defending women’s right to choose. Good for him.
O. Felix Culpa
Lawyer question: what are unenumerated rights?
Martin
@Baud: You know, you get a free ticket onto the stage to show these candidates how it’s done.
Marcopolo
Warren fan but one of the reasons I love her (she understands problems & their solutions are complex) is a weakness because your average American wants a bumper sticker answer to a bumper sticker answer.
Great answer on guns/ gun violence but I don’t know how many folks follow her all the way through. Yeah, I’m kinda down on my fellow average ‘mercans.
Edited to add: Great answer on abortion from her as well.
jl
Good on Biden for dunking Muir’s crap question. And good dunk on Muir’s crap follow-up. You try to punk, you risk the dunk, moderators.
After moderators’ get called on their crap, they have adopted the strategy of acting willfully obtuse.
Betty Cracker
SCOTUS!
khead
Someone should just say “Yes, abortion is a fucking litmus test for SCOTUS!”
Baud
I like that they are saying don’t trust the courts and legislate abortion rights.
Marcopolo
@O. Felix Culpa: Yeah, thanks for Clarence Thomas Joe. Something something Anita Hill something.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
“Me or the cat?”
NotMax
@O. Felix Culpa
Those things determined to be rights which are not specifically included in the text of the Constitution.
Martin
@NotMax: Yeah, I think we need to have as many pets on the stage as possible – dogs, cats, ducks, chickens. Cole’s job is to track them down when they wander off. And Subaru valet.
Brachiator
@O. Felix Culpa:
He’s had work done.
JWR
@jl:
Came to this thread to say that David Muir is a complete shithead, so thank you for that.. The dude’s questions are truly idiotic.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Hold on. This requires a coin toss.
:)
jk
@zhena gogolia:
Biden is a gaffe gushering buffoon. We need a nominee who’s nimble and can think quickly on his or her feet to combat the Rethuglican sleaze machine and Uncle Joe doesn’t fit that bill.
Baud
Give Bernie props on that one.
patroclus
I think Klobuchar could carry Minnesota easier than you Joe.
download my app in the app store mistermix
Constitutional Amendments are the biggest wank answer/dodges in the book. It will be a cold day in hell next time one is passed.
Bernie just said litmus test. Good for him.
khead
@khead:
Bernie just said it! And went all in on Planned Parenthood!
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Agreed. He can be very forthright and clear, and on the issue of Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood he was on point.
Omnes Omnibus
@O. Felix Culpa: The Constitution only names certain rights. Rights not named are unenumerated rights. There is some argument over whether they exist under the Constitution. I say they do but I an too fucking exhausted by this week to type out all the reasons. Let’s just say that the right to privacy is an unenumerated right and then apply the pros and cons from any abortion debate.
Mary G
Steyer on fire!
Brachiator
@JMG:
Except Trump.
O. Felix Culpa
@NotMax:
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you both for that explanation. I love this full-service blog.
NotMax
@patroclus
I think Klobuchar could carry a cinder block easier than could Biden.
;)
SiubhanDuinne
Say what you will about Steyer, but he is consistently pulling the conversation around to the awfulness of Trump and the overriding necessity of beating him in November. He’s done it again and again, and good for him.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne: agreed.
Martin
@Mary G:
Literally?
download my app in the app store mistermix
Pete bravely discussed systemic racism but the numbers show he didn’t do shit about it. Very Pete answer.
Nice follow up. Again he’s dodging.
khead
@SiubhanDuinne:
The problem is that he’s offered nothing on how to beat him.
JMG
One real good way to get back at the ABC anchors would be to say, in response to any question, that one of my first acts in office would be to launch an antitrust investigation of Walt Disney Co. They’d die of fear onstange.
O. Felix Culpa
@download my app in the app store mistermix: He’s now being called out on the increase of marijuana arrests while he was in office. And Liz calls him on his blather.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@O. Felix Culpa: Yes. Good answer from her. Good pivot to other race issues.
Yang is a one note song and he’s out of tune.
Baud
Can someone give Yang $1000 to go away?
O. Felix Culpa
ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH! JUST LIKE MLK WANTED!
(Yang)
khead
@Baud:
Steyer will give him reparations.
Another Scott
@O. Felix Culpa: She’s very good tonight.
She’s using lots of words, but to me it shows that she understands how big the job is. She’s not afraid to confront the size of the job that needs to be done.
And now Yang is trying bro-splaining to her… Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Martin: I hope so.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: Just because Steve in the WTf is absent, there is no need to let our standards slip.
O. Felix Culpa
@Omnes Omnibus: LOL. I laughed out loud. Literally.
Baud
Bernie coughed. He must be dying.
Marcopolo
@O. Felix Culpa: Really interesting to compare how EW took full responsibility for the problems her AA workers had in NV compared to PB talking about his time in South Bend.
I think her first words were “I believe these women. And I apologize to them. And I and my campaign need to do better.”
Betty Cracker
Jesus. This is going pear-shaped.
Mary G
Biden sounds old tonight.
O. Felix Culpa
@Betty Cracker: Going?
NotMax
Not that it matters but just saw (and was not previously aware) that Buttigieg is a southpaw.
(No, not going to start using sinister.)
Marcopolo
The women have definitely ruled at the debate tonight. No doubt their performances will be overlooked.
Baud
Amy is in the dog house again.
SiubhanDuinne
@khead: IIRC, the only one who has slavered at the prospect of engaging with Trump in a general election debate is Amy. As for other tactics for beating Trump, I don’t think any of the candidates has addressed the issue tonight. Certainly not in detail. I’m not generally a Steyer fan, but I give him props for repeatedly hauling the conversation back to the singular, compelling necessity of making certain Trump loses and loses big in November.
Shalimar
@Martin: Parenthetically.
Moderator question for the lightning round: If Tom Steyer spontaneously combusted, would you throw money at him to put out the fire?
jl
@Another Scott: I agree she is doing better than the others so far.
And I agree that B was evasive. But OTOH, she started with an over elaborate premise to set up the question and which allowed B an opening to argue with her and make the case that she got her facts wrong.
instead of acting like a shithead, like the other moderators, she clarified the question and effectively ditched the less relevant part of her premise, but too late.
WTF is with these stupid habits with the moderators.
Baud
Bernie throws Nina under the bus?
Betty Cracker
@O. Felix Culpa: Fair point.
O. Felix Culpa
Amy is still in the house!
Mike in DC
Gosh, if only we had some black candidates on stage to talk about this stuff…oh, wait.
Baud
Amy brings up voter sippression.
hilts
Reading all these comments dissing the moderators reminds me of Capt. Renault’s line from Casablanca “I’m shocked. Shocked to find there’s gambling going on here.”
I agree that these moderators suck, but when was there ever a golden age when we had debate moderators who posed insightful or thought provoking questions?
I’ve always favored the idea of having print journalists from different beats such as healthcare, foreign affairs, and the environment serve as debate moderators, but as long as tv networks are calling the shots they’ll continue to use overpaid airhead celebrity “journalists” instead.
O. Felix Culpa
Amy addressing voting rights. Yay!
NotMax
@Shalimar
Yang: “$1000 buys a lot of marshmallows.”
//
jl
@O. Felix Culpa: “Amy is still in the house!”
A quota on the number of questions the women allowed to answer?
debbie
@geg6:
Having been an assistant, I’ve had a boss with a bad temper. If it had gotten to the point where something was thrown at me, I’d have a problem with my boss. Even if the boss was a woman. YMMV.
Marcopolo
Lots of points to AK for bring up voting! Think we all know the moderators ain’t gonna broach this topic.
O. Felix Culpa
@jl: It would seem so.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: I called the kid sinister(she’s a lefty, as is her mom). Then I called her a pig and she happily said, “yes I am”(she was born in the Year of the Pig, as was I).
NotMax
@hilts
The League of Women Voters wasn’t chopped liver.
Baud
Not crazy about how Liz is framing her answer here.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Was she eating a salad with her comb during the break?
O. Felix Culpa
I’m glad they’re having a discussion on race, but it feels awkward with only white people (plus Yang) doing it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Marcopolo: I was just going to say the same thing.
Another Scott
@Baud: It’s wince-inducing, but too often it’s true. Saying so is a way to get people to pay more attention. I think it’s smart.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ohio Mom
I ust started watching. Awful sound system, everyone sounds like they are gasping for air. Not a good look.
Butter Emails
@hilts:
Yes. They didn’t suck nearly as hard when the League of Women Voters hosted them.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike in DC: Yeah, I was just thinking how much I miss Kamala. Cory, too, but mostly Kamala.
Butter Emails
@O. Felix Culpa:
And Yang is the worst at discussing it.
O. Felix Culpa
Give them ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!$!$!
M31
@O. Felix Culpa:
hysterical and a classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzXoVo16pTg
(Peter Schickele’s “PDQ Bach” Beethoven’s 5th symphony sportscast version)
“Any chance they’d ever trade him to another orchestra?”
O. Felix Culpa
Liz: Against billionaires buying nominations. I agree.
Another Scott
Yang gives you oNe tHoUsAnd DoLLaRs to protect you from tsunamis.
:-/
I haven’t noticed that he’s such a “economics is everything” person before. But he’s been beating that drum tonight.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
Moderately surprised none of them have put a question to Yang about Skynet.
;)
Marcopolo
EW subtly jabs Sanders for getting help from Our Revolution, which is, yes, a PAC! Yeah!
O. Felix Culpa
@M31: Ah yes, 5th symphony. Brain fart on my part. And it is still hilarious.
SiubhanDuinne
@hilts:
I’m not sure how old you are, so it’s quite possible you genuinely don’t remember, but for years the League of Women Voters ran good, objective debates. I miss those days (and for the record I do try to keep up my LWV membership, although I admit I’m not active).
Mike in DC
@Another Scott:
Yang needs more than “automation is bad” and “everyone gets a grand a month” if he wants to be more than a novelty or gimmick candidate or politician going forward.
Marcopolo
@SiubhanDuinne: Same.
O. Felix Culpa
Bernie: I have an answer before the question.
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack: Its a little to the east of Queens and was the dowry of the same queen after whom Queens is named, Katherine of Braganza.
patroclus
I like Klobuchar’s biography – nice pivot from the idiotic Bloomberg question to emphasize it.
O. Felix Culpa
Bernie yelling about money.
Marcopolo
@Mike in DC: Economists have pretty roundly debunked the job stealing robot argument that Yang is making. It’s a little involved but the fundamental thing is productivity is not going up as much as it should if robots were really displacing workers.
Another Scott
@O. Felix Culpa: He does! And it’s the same answer he had 4 years ago! He’s so consistent and pure that he doesn’t need to listen and consider the question or learn anything!!
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Marcopolo
@SiubhanDuinne: Yup. Course I’m an old so take that for what you will.
Baud
My campaign website is Baud.org, because only sellouts use .com.
jl
@O. Felix Culpa:
” Bernie: I have an answer before the question. ”
Well, why not, given how horrible the questions have been most of the time? And in fairness to BS, he knew, as did I, that the moderator was going to waste everyone’s time gagging up the same question.
I’m glad that the candidates have a chance to bash Bloomberg, and so far, also give them a chance to give effectively reshearse their closing statements.
But, Bloomberg is not there and can’t respond. Offends my sense of fairness. And so many issues not addressed.
Baud
New thread up.
Duane
@hilts: Mayor Pete isn’t from South Bend? Also, I’d rather be called the Buddha of South Bend than Puberty Pete. Probably heard that enough in college.
O. Felix Culpa
@jl: But but but we’re now doing something about climate change and trade.
Klobuchar back in the house. And defending the NH senators’ vote on the trade deal.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: No fair! We coulda been TBogg contenders!
Marcopolo
@jl: Bloomberg will most likely be at the next debate. And the Warren campaign has been arguing to get him on the stage because being able to run hundreds of millions of dollars of ads while mostly dodging public events with voters means he cannot be held accountable/asked questions like he could on a debate stage.
mad citizen
@Marcopolo: There was a decent CBS Sunday Morning story on this last year. It’s been a long-term fear. The thing is, there will be jobs 30 40 50 years from now that no one can imagine now. Plus our populations will decline, or will have to decline due to keeping the planet habitable.
And if all this fails, there is always makework, my current favorite word.
jl
Muir, who I will simply refer to as Shithead from now on, manages to ask a question so incoherent that I can’t really figure out what it is about. Other than to cram as many GOP talking points and advertise as many fake Trumpster achievements, and try for as many gotchas as possible.
I think S, K and W, all give good answers, even though they disagree.
NotMax
@O. Felix Culpa
Some new front pager named Cowl or something like that.
:)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Hey!
O. Felix Culpa
@NotMax: The mustard mopping guy?
Martin
@Marcopolo: It’s not that robots reduce the job count, it’s that they take YOUR job.
There are vastly fewer farmers in the US than there were a century ago, despite them being productive enough to feed vastly more people. A lot of farm jobs have been eliminated over time. Now more new jobs were created, but farmers weren’t necessarily qualified to do those.
The coding coal miner problem is a real problem that is deserving of a real solution.
hilts
@NotMax:
@Butter Emails:
@SiubhanDuinne:
I appreciated the efforts of the League of Women Voters, but unfortunately that ship has sailed and it’s not coming back.
These debates, like almost everything else right now, are seriously fucked up and if Trump wins again, this planet will be fucked beyond repair.
jl
@Marcopolo: That is good point. Bloomberg’s own arrogant strategy and unlimited money is why he is not there.
I don’t like K’s throwing around her authentic iron miner’s daughter stuff. But would have been nice if she could have mentioned that Bloomberg is pretending his early life was much humbler than it actually was.
Brachiator
@Marcopolo:
Productivity is a function of demand, not just robot efficiency.
There is no question that automation and technological innovation has eliminated many jobs, and have also partly resulted in lower wages for the jobs that remain.
But there is also all kinds of displacement and yeh, new jobs. I’ve seen something recently about how Amazon puts stores out of business but has created more warehouse and delivery jobs.
mad citizen
One Answer Yang.
Emma from FL
@jk: Too bad so many of the non-internet electorate like him, yeah?
Another Scott
@Marcopolo:
CEPR – Blame the policies, not the robots:
(Emphasis added.)
Especially given the climate change crisis, we should be doing everything we can to increase efficiency. That means better machines, and it means making stuff closer to home, making stuff that lasts, making stuff that serves a real need, etc. But people need to survive and thrive as well – that’s where government policy is essential.
Yang spouts pablum that isn’t even internally consistent. He’s stayed around far too long.
Cheers,
Scott.
Steeplejack
@schrodingers_cat:
You know your New Yawk history!
NotMax
@mad citizen
A noun, a verb and a grand.
Mai naem mobile
@Martin: what would Baud moderate? Also you forgot Mayhew Anderson on healthcare.
WaterGirl
@Mai naem mobile: He was #2.
Ruckus
@JMG:
BS might be somewhat hard of hearing.
He is hard of listening.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
Yes, Amazon provides a lot of jobs… I read today that a major Amazon warehouse in AZ was more dangerous than working in a prison… so?
ETA. …That $1,000/month guarantee isn’t nearly enough to make up for a job.
NotMax
@J R in WV
Too unmotivated to look it up. Does Yang’s ‘plan’ apply to all ages? The Duggars would get $21,000 per month (two parents plus 19 progeny)?