The biggest troll Nancy Pelosi could pull rn is to wander in front of a lot of cameras and wonder why Trump’s closest aides don’t want to defend the president in the Senate
“With the president under attack, they’re choosing to remain silent? You’d think they’d be more loyal.”
— Hayes Brown (@HayesBrown) January 27, 2020
Fun reminder that the State of the Union is a week from tomorrow. If the Senate does call witnesses, which is far more likely than it was just 24 hours ago, this means that the trial will likely extend into next week.
— Grace Segers (@Grace_Segers) January 27, 2020
Being in the middle of a drawn out fight to prevent witnesses would make for a real fun State of the Union. https://t.co/M4DpkM26AD
— Schooley (@Rschooley) January 27, 2020
Who will invite John Bolton to be their guest at the State of the Union?
— Schooley (@Rschooley) January 27, 2020
Pity the poor GOP Senate caucus, upset that they were caught off guard by the news cycle about Bolton’s book rather than, you know, the damning facts contained in Bolton’s book. https://t.co/KtvjpVVob2
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) January 27, 2020
As one does when someone might spill how innocent they are. https://t.co/MQJEcL0eLD
— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) January 28, 2020
I love the Hunter Biden stuff because it’s rare to have such a clear tell of bad faith. The second someone mentions him you don’t need to take them seriously. The goddamn president of the USA was impeached for deadly serious abuses. But Hunter! And they know just how lame it is. https://t.co/MM7ER7eRgp
— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) January 28, 2020
these dopes are the only ones surprised the White House ever saw them as anything more than completely expendable human shields https://t.co/WAcmbbNWoF
— shauna (@goldengateblond) January 27, 2020
Trump didn't do the thing he's accused of doing, but if he did it was fine, and in fact that's exactly what he did, get over it, because it's not only fine, it's precisely what we want from a president, and can you believe that Biden did the same thing, shame on him.
— Peter Suderman (@petersuderman) January 27, 2020
GOP Senators need to talk to some of the Trump organization’s contractors to understand their role in his story.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) January 28, 2020
germy
Jeffro
Excellent selections, A.L.!
Hopefully Dems will work at amplifying the theme that Shauna and Schooley are noting: GOP Senators, trumpov would sell you out in an instant if he thought it would save him.
Maybe when he starts threatening the ones who are wavering, they’ll get it.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy:Speaking of “sports liaisons”, did the WH release a statement on the death of Kobe Bryant? If they did how bad was it? Or did they actually manage to navigate that particularly low bar?
germy
@OzarkHillbilly: I remember seeing the tweet. It was a normal statement one of his assistants most likely wrote for him.
OzarkHillbilly
Sheeit… They ain’t seen nothing yet. Just wait, this admin leaks like a sieve. Do they really think it will all be over after the impeachment trial? That’s when the fun really begins. Only then, they will be in the crosshairs.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy: OK thanx. I half expected them to blow a simple statement of sympathy.
SFAW
@Jeffro:
Thinking that any of them grows a spine — or any sense of patriotism — is a losing bet.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
debbie
I can’t wait to count the number of times “Exonerated!” is bellowed at the SOTU.
Searcher
I wonder if Pence is polishing his own SOTU sand praying.
Gin & Tonic
Haven’t seen raven in a while. Anybody know what’s up? He seemed pretty peeved when ola got the hammer, but I don’t know if that was a trigger.
NotMax
Merry National Kazoo Day.
SFAW
What you libtards don’t seem to get is that there are literally thousands of persons in the administration who can attest to Dear Leader’s innocence, but they’re not doing it because their Fuehrer is playing 21-dimensional chess (note that it’s 10 more than Obama played!) He’s waiting for just the right moment to spring his most effective witnesses: Tommy Flanagan, Joe Isuzu, Rudy
ColludyGiuliani, and Nathan Thurm. Then, you libtard snowflakes will be screaming “foul!”Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
SFAW
@Gin & Tonic:
When and why did that happen?
trnc
I’m sure he polishes something and prays all the time.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Someone said he emailed Raven and Raven is taking a break. It’s been longer than I expected though. Perhaps he found life after Balloon Juice.
Baud
@debbie:
Just like OJ.
debbie
@Baud:
It was SubaruDiane who emailed him.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: He and I have been emailing. He’s fine, just taking a break.
Barbara
Evidently, patriotism for Republican senators begins and ends with basking in the glow of sacrifices made by others, not making any of your own. For Pat Toomey to say anything in public as he did yesterday says something about the volume of calls his staff are fielding and which way they are leaning.
frosty
Deleted. G&T Raven update made this irrelevant.
Patricia Kayden
germy
@Gin & Tonic: Why was ola banned?
frosty
@OzarkHillbilly: Good to hear , thanks.
SFAW
@Patricia Kayden:
I saw a clip of someone — might have been Tapper — pointing out that if the Rethugs were so concerned about Hunter Biden and “corruption,” why didn’t they open an investigation in 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018? It’s curious that it did not become an issue until 2019. I wonder why that is?
frosty
@Barbara: Toomey’s been getting daily calls from me and I’m giving my wife the scripts so she can call. Glad to hear the pressure might have an effect.
OzarkHillbilly
@Patricia Kayden: I have to disagree with Amash to this extent: Hunter didn’t trade on his name for power, he traded on his name for money. Which is why any law banning such practices will never get thru a GOP Senate. Chances are good they all have relatives engaged in such practices and they are all OK with it.
Barbara
@frosty: Good for you!
germy
@SFAW: Infrastructure Week got in the way.
Barbara
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, there wasn’t much power associated with this gig.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
The GOP would be right to oppose that. Adult family members of public officials shouldn’t be treated like public officials themselves.
Kay
Do you believe this, though? That they were or feel “blindsided”? The senators were not aware that Bolton’s buck-raking book manuscript was making the rounds? They knew he was out there and they knew he was selling a book so at best they were betting they could wrap up their fake trial before the book landed. None of them considered that Trump’s sleazy lawyers were backing them into a corner?
They knew for months that Trump held up Ukraine aid and they knew why he held it up. They wrote letters to get it released. They knew this way before the public did- months and months. The whistleblower told the public. Everyone else knew.
Searcher
@Baud: Eh, we already have insider trading laws which prohibit activities by family members of public and private individuals.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Blindsided?
Nope ??
Gin & Tonic
@OzarkHillbilly: Thanks. Give him my regards.
rikyrah
???
Gin & Tonic
@germy: Not sure. There was some back and forth about it in a Cheryl thread, IIRC. She didn’t want to get into it, but it was reportedly more than just his irritating linguistic schtick. Kind of hush-hush, and some people took exception to the way it was handled (including raven.)
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
Presumes facts not in evidence.
Princess
I think they were blindsided by the realization that Trump plans to save his skin at their full expense, leaving them holding the bag. They’re used to outsourcing their strategic thinking to McConnell and they assumed he was going to protect them. They didn’t count on Bolton’s reveal happening at the exact moment they were claiming there was no evidence to convict. They certainly weren’t blindsided by any of the facts.
Snarki, child of Loki
New SOTU requirement from Pelosi:
“The president must take an oath to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth prior to delivering the SOTU.”
Kay
@rikyrah:
I’m thrilled that they’re rattled and felt the need to plant that they were “blindsided” but in my experience people being “blindsided” by the lawyers they hire is mostly ass-covering bullshit.
“Our strategy depended on the truth not coming out too early” – was that a good strategy? None of them were capable of making a different choice? Like not announcing his exoneration before the trial started?
AnotherBruce
The state of the union is deep.
Kirk Spencer
No, I think they were blindsided. Not by the material but by the timing.
Edit, not the first to note this, I see.
rikyrah
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud:
They would be, and that’s why they never will.
Baud
@Searcher:
I don’t know how those laws are structured, so I can’t tell if they are comparable.
Gin & Tonic
@Princess: They should have asked any plumber or painter or drywall guy in Queens or Jersey.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good tweet.
OzarkHillbilly
You just did.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I saw his online advertising has switched to “establishment Democrats are the enemy”, again. They return to that well again and again and again. Bernie’s weak against Trump. He’s at his most passionate when he’s attacking Democrats.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: Heh, well said.
Kay
@Gin & Tonic:
Just for the record, I objected to his banning and I object to this too. Say what he did. This “hush hush” stuff is awful. It’s not fair. How is he supposed to defend on this? He committed secret, off line infractions? I know you didn’t say it but the secret charges are worse than just banning him for the way he writes.
Baud
To be clear, I support anti-Ivanka laws that would prevent President Biden from hiring Hunter. I just don’t see a way to prevent the Burisma situation legally.
Baud
@Kay:
That’s his base. He can’t walk away from that.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: Narrowly. Specifically defined acts are illegal. It is very legal to trade on one’s name and I suspect very hard to make the practice illegal in a constitutional manner. They might be able to do it when it comes to foreign corporations, but I see no way an individual’s freedom to conduct lawful business can be constrained by the choices a relative makes, such as running for congress or becoming president.
My brain is malfunctioning, I just used “know” for “no”. I saw yesterday that I had used “fool” for “full” and there was another such mix up too. I know some of you folks had to have caught it but said nothing. I guess I owe you thanx for not laughing at me.
Bruce K
I suspect that at this point for the Senate Republicans, it’s all about damage control, keeping the ship afloat long enough so they can survive the next election without losing power. McConnell’s shown that they can use the Senate to thwart a Democratic President, but if they lose their grip on power there as well…
…anyone remember that bit from Titanic, when the ship’s designer is looking over the blueprint of the ship with the officers, and comes to the grim conclusion that the ship not only can sink, but will?
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
I just blame autocorrect.
Gin & Tonic
@OzarkHillbilly:
You still have a can of “Billy” beer somewhere? While I doubt it gets better with age, it sure can’t get worse.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I would if I had it, but I don’t. I suppose I could just lie.
OzarkHillbilly
@Gin & Tonic: I must have been one of the few sarcastic fucks who passed on that opportunity to make fun of someone.
SFAW
@OzarkHillbilly:
Why would we do that? We’ve all done it (i.e., made that type of mistake) at some time. Well, except for Steve in the WTFKW — he literally has never done it.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I was watching a video that was talking about how during the American Civil War the Southerners would keep on making up rumors like the South won the Battle of Gettysburg or some completely made up battle at Baltimore, just because Southern culture said Southerner were invincible in battle.
I think this Hunter Biden thing is the same thing, the Right convinced themselves that the next Republican president would the savior of the Republic after Obama ruined while governing while black. Instead they got Trump which rubs every criticism of modern conservationism in their collective faces. Yes, the Russian are generating a lot of stuff, but so the conservatives themselves and it’s all to avoid seeing how awful Trump is, because they want to believe.
SFAW
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
It still amazes me that the RWMFs have gone all-in on their Russophilia, just to pwn the libs.
ETA: Effing traitors (because you can never point that out enough, re: the RWMFs).
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: No one would know. Believe me.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I’m not a lawyer, but I don’t see a way to keep people from trading on their names in a way that SUGGESTS influence-peddling either, especially domestically. People gotta make a living, and corporations will throw money at connected people to make themselves seem connected.
Almost all of them do it (even St. Sanders), and it’s really damaging, IMO, because that’s the sort of thing that makes people believe “both sides” garbage about corruption, which undermines democracy itself. Good old fashioned shame doesn’t seem to work, not even among Democrats and supposedly 100% pure artisanal independents. I don’t know what would.
satby
@Kay: I believe that Cheryl explained why in the original thread that blew up, then that got all blown up as if she was at fault. There wasn’t anything secret about it, but the trigger wasn’t how he wrote.
And if you’re all that curious you could always email John to ask.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
I believe it copied a tweet by Obama.
Mallard Filmore
@Patricia Kayden:
My RWNJ brother says its because the DoJ channels are corrupt and cannot be trusted … but Rudy will get to the bottom of all this and save the day.
OzarkHillbilly
@SFAW:
Because you can. SATSQ.
satby
@zhena gogolia: yes, pretty closely but not word for word. Which made it obvious that Trump didn’t write it at all. ?
hueyplong
“blindsided” = “exposed”
They’re prepared to do anything so long as their cover isn’t blown.
The only difference between Collins and Kennedy is the audience to whom they play. Crowd expectations determine whether to foam at the mouth or to furrow a brow.
Another Scott
@OzarkHillbilly: With luck he’ll be back for the Superb Owl thread(s).
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
It’s an impossible standard of non-corruption to meet. Would we prevent a star baseball player from joining the big leagues because his dad was a star player.? If AOC has children, should they be barred from public interest work because they might edge out other worthy applicants due to the aura of the OC name?
I think if we’re going to be successful, we need to get away from treating every imperfection of the system as evil corruption. God knows there’s enough low hanging fruit to pick when it comes to corruption.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: I know but it goes against my nature. It took my father getting Alzheimer’s to teach me that there are times when it is not only OK to lie, but absolutely the right thing to do.
ETA not that I am above coloring the truth every now and again when it makes a story better.
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: not just the right thing, but in cases of dementia, the kind thing.
Kay
@satby:
I’m not “that curious about it”. I don’t care if he used two email addresses or whatever. It’s a politics blog. Using a fake email is practically a hallowed tradition. I don’t think the policing fits the general culture of this place – there’s always been blowups and spats and everyone survives.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
I’ve been on the receiving end of the poleaxed one’s vitriol. While I don’t know what got him banned, any more than you do, I do know that John Cole is not one to wield the banhammer frivolously. I tend to think that there was a really good reason, and I reckon sharing the reason for a ban is generally a good idea. Not least, so that the rest of us know where the boundaries are chez Balloon Juice.
That said, maybe there’s some aspect of ola azul’s infraction that made Cole decide against disclosing it this time. (That’s my speculation, anyway.)
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
Yeah, I’ll drop it. There’s no way to resolve it because he’s banned so can’t say his side. I know you don’t mean to do this but speculating that it must have been very bad is exactly what I think is unfair.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So it’s starting to dawn on the Republican Senators that it’s not impossible a lot them will be voted out by outraged voters while Trump gets to walk? These guys are really frikking idiots.
JMG
Hunter Biden was put on a board because of his name. So are half the members of the boards of every public corporation in America. Remember Jim Mattis was on the Theranos board. These appointments are window dressing. Hunter Biden almost surely had no idea how Burisima operated and its management took care to keep it that way. He may have had little idea of what the company did.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby:I think I’ve told this story before but one morning while making breakfast the old man came into the kitchen and asked “Where’s Mother?”
Little Sis answered, “She’s in the hospital, Dad.”
He blew up. “WHY DIDN’T ANYBODY TELL ME??!!?!?!!??!!!!”
I wanted to strangle her.
ETA I always answered that question with, “She’s at the grocery store, Pop.” That satisfied him and reassured him that soon she would be home. 15 minutes later he’d ask again and I would answer the same and he would feel…
Wash, rinse, repeat.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
There was a regular commenter here who was very mean to me. Bob- variations on that name. He once told me I was fat although he’s never seen me. He often told me I was stupid. He was never banned and I didn’t expect him to be banned. Oh, and he was a birther. Full out birther. Had an elaborate birther theory. I completely enjoyed fighting with him about it, because he didn’t understand how birth certificates work.
That to me is the culture. I could be wrong, of course.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I think there’s a difference between public interest work and corporate buck-raking. I absolutely do think politicians’ family members shouldn’t compete for lucrative Infrastructure Week contract bids, for example, but I’m unclear on how to prevent that. Shame clearly doesn’t work. But if AOC’s future kids want to be health inspectors or social workers and they’re qualified for the work, that’s a different kettle of fish, IMO.
I also loathe dynastic politics, but at least the lesser Bushes, etc., require the cooperation of voters to have a political career, even if they start out with a name recognition advantage. Sons and daughters of sports stars have to compete against athletes whose parents weren’t superstars, and if they don’t have the stuff, they’ll be exposed.
I get the difficulty of addressing the issue, but I don’t think we should accept it as normal either. I’d love to see Democrats make eradicating corruption and influence-peddling a core part of our brand.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
I agree. I disliked ola’s frontier gibberish as much as anyone, but that was not ban-worthy. Cheryl Rofer and WaterGirl alluded to other, sinister offenses, with no details but with a combination of “protecting the community,” “you don’t need to concern yourselves about it” and “Cole made the decision—that’s it!” All somewhat sketchy and condescending.
ETA: I haven’t read most of the thread. Just saw the first comment about raven and searched down to see if anyone responded that he is taking a timeout.
PenAndKey
Somebody got banned? Huh, I miss all the fun.
Back to the actual post, though, this one stood out to me:
Just… how? How in the ever-loving hell can the White House have any chance of successfully taking out a restraining order to prevent a former public official from disclosing government details to the Senate in an impeachment trial? Hell, as long as it’s not revealing of classified information (which it’s not, or he’d have never gotten his book past vetting), how can they bar a former official like John Bolton from discussing their job, period?
This is one thing that’s bugged me about the Trump administration from day one. He wields non-disclosures and restraining orders like they’re candy and like he’s still a private citizen running a private company. He really doesn’t grok that he’s not the owner and CEO of the administration he’s head of, does he?
jimmiraybob
[thumbing through dictator’s playbook]
Oh yeah, here it is. Isn’t it approaching the point that a caring and responsible strong-man authoritarian would disband the Congress and send troops loyal to him to button up the capital building? You know, national security something something so on and so forth.
artem1s
@rikyrah:
nice rejoinder to the Wilmerites harassing Biden’s staff. But to be fair, Dolt probably still has a group of ‘investigators’ trying to dig up dirt on Obama’s birth certificate. He’s gonna invent crap on everyone, even his own staff and family, because he knows in the pit of his charred little heart that no one supports him out of loyalty or because they think he’s worthy of the job.
Immanentize
@Amir Khalid: no, there was never an explanation. In fact, Cheryl told Watergirl in the “thread that blew up” not to even talk about the fact that he was banned.
If anyone can point me to an explanation, please do so. But I’m not waiting.
Ola Azul was annoying, to be sure. I said so — to him! But when I wasn’t in the mood I just scrolled past and refused to be drawn in. Or, anyone can use the pie filter. But the instead is banning?
If the purported reason was he had many ISP addresses, guess what? He did! Because as Raven told anyone who would listen, he is a commercial fisherman who — get this! — travels in a boat to fish! From place to place! Places with different internet connections. Crazy, I know….
And he was primarily based, as he told us, in Sitka, Alaska. I think the big complaint is that you can see Russia from there?
slightly_peeved
@OzarkHillbilly:
I think any restriction on where family members of congresspeople work is treating the symptom, rather than the cause. The fix is to have transparent government decision making, guided by clear criteria, in such a way that the effect of any one person’s name is minimized.
I think it’s also worth pointing out, repeatedly and loudly, that this is actually what happened in the case of Burisma. Biden pushed for more anti-corruption measures in Ukraine, with bipartisan and international support. Hunter Biden’s employment at Burisma didn’t change this policy.
Amir Khalid
@Steeplejack:
I’m generally confident in John Cole’s judgement in these matters, but I agree that some transparency re ola azul’s ban would be helpful.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@SFAW: I think a lot of it is Putin resembles the leader the conservatives the conservatives want and their insane, contradictory ideology will never allow to happen. Likely why they don’t get worked up over Trump being Putin’s puppet, you see it will be okay because Putin is the one really calling the shots, Trump is just the front man.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
That actually may be more doable since there’s a direct interaction with the government, unlike in Burisma. But you’d still have line drawing questions to make. Can Microsoft bid on government contracts if they have a low level executive who is the child of a Congresscritter?
What I fear is that we have an ad hoc corruption standard that depends on the eye of the beholder and, in reality, will it only ever be used successfully against Democrats. I happy to hold Dems to a higher standard than the GOP on this issue, but I want there to be a standard that’s reasonable and workable.
Steeplejack
@OzarkHillbilly:
C’mon, man, don’t you know you can blame it on autocorrect
@Baud: Doh! Too late again.
Sab
@OzarkHillbilly: My dad has been in a nursing home memory unit for almost two years. His main nurse’s aide came up with a brilliant lie about why he is there: “Your house needs major repairs/renovation. You know how long contractors take.”
He has been buying that story for two years, mostly because he doesn’t really have any concept of time. If we tried to take him home, he would think we had gone to the wrong house. He is so old that three of the houses he used to live in have been demolished.
artem1s
@Baud:
Warren probably has a solution but it would involve changing regs for public companies – overdue IMO. limit board compensation; more COI regs that go deeper than surface level relationships. More reporting on hired consultants in SEC reports. Corporate tax on bonuses and stock options, etc. It won’t make nepotism illegal, but you can make it more burdensome to the company and less attractive to dead weight relatives.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay:
Nor do I. Hell, I didn’t even like it when BiP was banned, and I’d had my share of back and forth with him.
Immanentize
Re: Blindsided. As many have pointed out , they were surprised that new revelations came out during the trial. What’s amazing to me is that the Senate Republicans believed that the White House had everything under control — buttoned up. I’m sure the WH told them it was. But the crazy thing was, after three years, that the Republicans believed them — that it was taken care of and even more to the point, that the Trump Henchpeople were capable of doing so.
OzarkHillbilly
@PenAndKey: What gets me is his people knuckle under like the good cowards they are.
Booger
You know, the impeachment of the worst human being on earth who is also the President is not the best forum to debate the failings of the miserable mess we have allowed corporate governance and corporate boards to become. That’s a whole nother kettle of fish to boil, innit? Theranos shows that boards are barely a fig leaf for sociopaths to pursue their chosen courses unimpeded. So Hunter gets a cu$hy job to do nothing…that’s just Exhibit #167,548,322 of Crony Capitalism on parade.
satby
@Kay: so is operating out of ignorance apparently. It’s more than just two email addresses and it was more than random IPs generated out of posting from coffee shops.
And apparently an effort to smear the woman who is our blog nuclear expert, who still has a TS clearance I think. Wonder why that might have been, but if I had to pick which person to read, it would be Cheryl instead of the shit-stirrer by a mile. A calculation evidently the blogfather made, and I’m ok with that.
PenAndKey
@Immanentize: I’m sure some of their shock is feigned, but I really can’t shake the concern that they’re as genuinely isolated as my “only watch Fox News and only read right wing blogs” relatives. The liberal media slur has been around since I was a child. That’s plenty of time for the cultivation and isolation of true believers. That they’d actually be the ones elected isn’t completely impossible, even if you’d normally expect politicians to be more aware than that.
@satby: And holy hell, it was that guy banned? I’ve been ignoring him for what feels like forever. The whole affectation of the nearly illiterate drawling “speech” typing style of his was too grating to put up with. If the blog overlords banned him for going after Cheryl I’m not surprised. Between her and Adam I honestly feel there’s more expertise writing here than most mainstream sources I encounter these days.
Gin & Tonic
@artem1s: I like and support Warren, but you’ll have to explain to me like I’m 5 years old how any US legislation can bind the hiring practices of a company based in Ukraine that does no business in the US.
Jeffro
@Snarki, child of Loki: he’s going to Freak. Out. with her sitting behind him the whole time. He’ll keep spinning around after every other sentence.
I might actually watch it this year. (evil laugh)
Steeplejack
@PenAndKey:
Bolton’s book has not passed vetting. He sent a copy to the White House for review. I think that’s why it’s leaking now, because someone thinks the White House will quash it on “national security” grounds.
Gin & Tonic
@satby:
How do you know this?
BellyCat
@Kay:
Well stated and agreed.
And to some of the Jackaltareat, it currently seems like censorship since “the concerns” are not being identified (other than multiple IP addresses, which, for a man who is literally “often at sea” seems like an inadequate trigger on its own).
OzarkHillbilly
@Steeplejack: By now you’ve seen my replies to Baud, but I want to add this: The way I figure it is why should I let other people have all the fun of laughing at me? Why can’t I laugh at me too?
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: IANAL, but prior restraint doesn’t have a very successful history in the USA, does it?
bjacques
Blindsided…they’ve always known Trump’s a “ready my one-man escape pod” kinda guy, because they are too. It’s just they’d hoped to win some more juicy Imperial contracts, blow up a few planets of their own choosing, and have their own personal escape pods built and fueled up before the Death Star blew.
OzarkHillbilly
@Sab: My old man was in one for 4 years. By the end we didn’t talk at all, we just sat and held hands.
PenAndKey
@Steeplejack: Ah, my bad. I’ve had a busy week and haven’t been as plugged into the news as usual. I had thought it passed the usual vetting process already based on how much it was being talked about. Though I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise there’s concern the white house will block it without grounds.
Still, my point about restraining orders and non-disclosures stands.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly:
Isn’t that what the mirrors in your house are for?
CaseyL
Bolton is famously a “kiss up, kick down” guy, so if he was the one who leaked details of the book, it’s… interesting… that he basically told his higher ups to GF themselves.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby:
I’ve been staying out of this and have absolutely no interest in relitigating this, but I have to say,
Like that’s never happened to a front pager before? Lately the pile ons that are a MisterMix post are ridiculous.
OzarkHillbilly
@Immanentize: I avoid them like the plague, and I would never ever begin a conversation with, “Mirror mirror on the wall…”
O. Felix Culpa
@OzarkHillbilly: We don’t see everything. Remember the “pile-ons” that drove front-page people of color like ABL away? It was plenty ugly what got posted, and John blocked the worst shit. I don’t have inside information, but I can well imagine the attacks on a woman might be quite different from what MM has experienced.
MomSense
Now would be a good Fucking time for some oppo to drop on Wilmer. Anyone else worried he will get the nom after IA and NH and then Cali? Biden is underperforming Clinton with the black vote.
Gin & Tonic
Well, re-reading this, I apologize for opening up (and then poking around in) a can of worms. I was just curious, as some of us sometimes are, about a nym I hadn’t seen in a while, who was usually in the morning threads. I’m sorry it led to “re-litigation” and won’t comment further on that subject.
Baud
@MomSense: It’s a real risk.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: It happens at all levels of society. In every society. As long as there are families, someone is always going to be willing to hire some other guy’s niece in hopes of getting some advantage from it.
Spanky
@Gin & Tonic: This is the crux of it, imo. It’s not like he was running the circus at Verizon.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Yep, I agree the details can definitely get thorny. I like peeved’s suggestion at #90 that greater transparency treats the cause rather than the symptom and also artem1s’s suggestion at #96 to make it “more burdensome to the company and less attractive to dead weight relatives.”
Cermet
I am often amazed that the major news reporters (and some here) still pretend that thug senators are 1) moral enough to care about the orange fart cloud’s crimes or 2) care anything about the oath they took. These ass wipes care about only one thing – their position of power that keeps them at the money trough; they fear only one thing – being primaried by a crazier Dump believer so their base votes them out – period. The country can burn, their families fall apart and even their misstress’ goes to jail or gets an abortion for them. All irrelevant as long as the rube’s keep them in office.
Nelle
Sorry if I missed this being mentioned here, but yesterday, Sanders supporters had a sit-in at a Biden campaign office to protest Biden not supporting Sanders’ healthcare plans. Have you ever heard of such a thing? It seems coordinated with Joni Ernst’s giggle over how the impeachment hearing will affect Biden on caucus night, which coordinates nicely with Russian propaganda.
OzarkHillbilly
@O. Felix Culpa: Yeah, I do remember what happened to ABL, and yeah it disgusted me. But 2 wrongs don’t make a right (tho 3 lefts do).
I’m not interested in going over this again, I’m not interested in policing other people’s conduct or telling them how to behave or what to say or to grow a thicker skin or whatever.
This place is what it is and I like it because of that. There is a lot of give and take and people are able to say what they feel. That is not to say I that from time to time it doesn’t get to be a bit much for me or that in my opinion threads get out of hand sometimes, but when things do, I check out, do something else.
And right now I need to check out because my neighbor needs a ride home from the auto shop.
Gin & Tonic
@Cermet:
For the news reporters, it’s the old personal salary continuation program. Tell the truth, and you are exiled, like Phil Donahue.
raven
Hey ya’ll
I’ve hesitated to even get back into this since we’ve got folks who absolutely know exactly what happened and why. If I state my case it could only be by throwing other people, who I respect, under the bus and I’m not going to do that. I was drawn here by the openness and freedom of expression and, for the most, part that continues. Azul is not coming back so it’s up to me to determine my own course. BJ has obviously grown quite a bit in the decade plus that I have been participating and I guess it requires an increased level of vigilance to keep things “safe”. For me it is a matter of integrity and I just don’t feel I can go on under the current circumstances. Maybe it’s for the best since I retired and won’t be chained to the box day-in-and-day out. There are plenty of folks here who I feel a kinship with and I’ll miss that. Fair winds.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: True, and we can either accept that that’s just the way things are in government at every level or not. I’m on Team Not.
Also, I live in a rural county where my family has lived since before the Civil War, and the stories I could tell! But one thing that strikes me is that there’s LESS tolerance of this sort of thing at the local level, at least these days.
People get pissed off at the blatant unfairness and make a squawk, and the county commissioner or whoever has to address it. IMO, that’s a good thing.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: I thought every day was National Kazoo Day. Either way, huzzah!
Spanky
@Gin & Tonic: Things were much different when the press held an adversarial relationship with politicians. Not necessarily always better, but different. Things are infinitely worse since the press has become the remora to politicians. Republican politicians to be precise.
Betty Cracker
@raven: Well, that really sucks. I hope you change your mind because I will miss you. :(
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Be well. We will miss you, you cranky old fuck.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: That’s a shame. Fair winds.
danielx
@PenAndKey:
Nope. Never has. Never will.
This has been another edition of SATSQ.
Baud
@raven:
I’m saddened to hear this.
Gin & Tonic
@Spanky: I’ve pointed out before, the “Murrow-era” of American press was a historical anomaly. “Remember the Maine!”
mrmoshpotato
Anyone else always misread Mig’s Twitter name as “cheeseninja”?
Steeplejack
@raven:
I hope you don’t leave. Take as much time off as you want, but please consider coming back at some point.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
What is the analogy to the Burisma situation at the local level? Because what I object to is treating Hunter like he’s in the same category as Jared or Ivanka.
mrmoshpotato
@Kay:
Wilmer’s I’m-an-asshole game is strong. Very strong.
Immanentize
@raven:. I get it, you know. But this is just wrong. Too high a price IMO. BUT, I’ll see you in the funny pages!
StringOnAStick
@OzarkHillbilly: I read every comment 95% of the time and I do not recall any smearing of Cheryl but I could have missed it. I do recall a late night post by ola where he was instantly and viciously attacked by a commentator at a level I found shocking, my eyes flew open at it. Then another commentator used snark to back the attack and ola responded to both in kind; I think that’s where to complaint John happened. I thought the initial attack was crap but it was by someone who once attacked me for telling him no one uses Novocaine anymore and using that word in a dental office is how we know to apply more skepticism to what the patient is saying, just like medical personnel do the same when they are assessing a patient. The person who attacked ola was making it a point to attack every time he posted but that last one was pretty ugly.
I’ll go away now, perhaps Raven has the right idea.
Omnes Omnibus
I missed the whole banning ola azul event in real time, but I have to admit that I am now really curious about it. Cole put out a listing of bannable offense in a post a while back; shouldn’t a banning come with a statement of which offense was committed? That would at least provide fair warning to others and avoid the speculation that has come out of this one. Being told that it was done for good reasons or similar things is only going to stir up the jackals.
Immanentize
@StringOnAStick: I am riffing sideways off what you said — I was one the kids whose family was really too poor to include novacaine in the dental visit. I had a lot of cavities as a kid and at least half were drilled with no painkiller at all. Often with the slow drill. True.
mrmoshpotato
@PenAndKey:
Mobster shitpile gonna mobster shitpile. Don’t worry, he doesn’t make mistakes with 3 emails.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
Maybe if there weren’t pretty decent paying jobs on corp boards that meet only a limited number of times a year and don’t actually do much of anything that can/are given to names so they have something to say they actually do, none of this would matter.
But that exists, we all know it does and names or kids of names get those jobs, because they lend some element to the corp and can, even if they don’t, lend respectability to the situation. I don’t know if that is what happened here but I’d bet that a lot of politician’s kids are on boards precisely for those reasons.
Hoodie
@Baud:
There seems to be some blurring of lines between different types of relationships going on here. A lot of the stuff being referred as local to relates to straightforward nepotism or plain old venality in vendor relationships. Regulation of that type of thing is relatively straightforward.
Burisma isn’t a US government vendor and Joe Biden doesn’t make hiring decisions for Burisma. Maybe Joe should have recused himself from anything involving Ukraine but, by that token, every US government official would need to recuse herself from any action that might affect a relative’s interests. So, for example, Joe Biden couldn’t have any input on tax policy because Hunter Biden pays taxes. That’s ridiculous, especially when Donald Trump is getting paid to host government events at his own properties.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I meant any situation where it looks like a pols’ relatives are profiting off the relationship to the pol. To be sure, there are degrees ranging from “bad optics” to “blatant corruption.” I’d classify Hunter Biden’s actions at one end of that spectrum and Javanka’s at the other.
But I hope we (as Democrats) don’t fall into the trap of making Hunter Biden a hill to die on. At the very least, what he did looks bad. He took that board gig over the very reasonable objections of the Obama admin people, who knew exactly how it looked. (And Hunter is not the only Biden we’ll hear about if Joe is the nominee — there are the brothers too, one of whom openly peddled the connection to sell shitty charter schools.)
Hunter Biden also kept the Burisma gig until well after his father announced his candidacy. That was politically stupid, IMO, and in a way that can hurt a lot more people than his father, should Joe Biden get the nomination and subsequently be damaged by Trump’s preposterous “whataboutist” corruption allegations.
This is one of the reasons I was hoping Biden wouldn’t run and still hope he doesn’t get the nomination. But if he DOES get it, which seems increasingly likely, we’re going to need an effective push-back against the coming slime tsunami, and I don’t think defending Hunter and the bros is the way to go.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Hunter Biden is not a hill to die on. Joe Biden is, because he did nothing wrong and he is the one running for office.
Ruckus
@PenAndKey:
He really doesn’t grok that he’s not the owner and CEO of the administration he’s head of, does he?
Easy answer, no he does not. But then you have to realize that he lives in a world contained in his head, not the one the rest of us do.
The world in his head revolves completely around him and winning that election, no matter how he did it, proves that. To him. And that is never going to change, it hasn’t in decades, and the reason it hasn’t and will continue is that he’s a broken person. Extremely broken.
satby
@Gin & Tonic: I ‘m pretty sure Chery as much as stated so way back when. That’s what I remembered anyway, because then a spirited discussion about IP numbers came up next.
I mostly ignored the guy too after being on the receiving end of his abuse because I asked him not to mock illiteracy with his “educated person’s idea of how illiterate people would write”, because I worked for years as an adult literacy tutor. So I don’t really care that he’s gone, he’s an abusive liar.
MattF
I’m completely, as in ‘completely’, uninterested in the banning controversy. I’ll just note a very old metaphor (some say, the first ever in English)– a bird flies into a room where a celebration is taking place, and then out again into the night. Night, then light, noise, other people, then night. A metaphor for our lives– a brief span of light between darknesses. Life is short, make the most of it.
mrmoshpotato
@Jeffro: Nancy SMASH just sits there the whole time with a sign that reads
IMPEACHED
MOTHERFUCKER
with an arrow pointing at Dump.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: to which I’ll add: Biden was always said to be one of those who looked down his nose at the Clintons’ buck-raking, the most public example being his leaks to Maureen Fucking Dowd about Beau’s deathbed plea to hold up “Biden values”. As one of those here who thinks the Clintons committed a lot of own-goals, it still bugs me that Biden indulges in this starry eyed cult of his clan (‘my word as a Biden’ has always creeped me out) while encouraging (I’m guessing) a lot of the anti-Clinton gossip among the likes of Dowd and who knows who else.
As a bloodless pragmatist, I’m more than ready to get behind Biden, I worry Bernie may fuck us all, I’m starting to wonder if I’m gonna have to swallow Bloomberg…. what a clusterfuck
EETA: and just to get back to the subject I wandered away from: Yes, Biden’s braintrust (Ron Klain) needs to come up with a better answer. I hope someone is figuring out how to get yesterday’s Ernst moment into a good ad ASAP.
Cermet
@raven: I would hope you reconsider and don’t leave for good. I’ve decided to take breaks (but nothing to do with BJ) but your voice would be missed.
A Ghost To Most
@raven: Fair winds and full hooks. Courage for those who remain.
mrmoshpotato
@OzarkHillbilly: “Mirror mirror on the wall who’s the most excellent OzarkHillbilly of them all?”
Chyron HR
@Betty Cracker:
Maybe if Democrats voluntarily have all these private citizens rounded up and shot, the Republicans will agree to stop campaigning against them.
Peale
@Barbara: Or actually much money. Seriously, I’m laughing my ass off at GOP getting all puffy about the sudden discovery that corporate board members get paid a lot to do little work. Like they all won’t retire from the Senate and take a board seat somewhere that pays a few hundred thousand for five meetings a year. Yeah, a few hundred thousand sounds like a lot of money, but it really isn’t in the scheme of things.
glory b
@OzarkHillbilly: Most everybody alive has experienced this too. A lot of what you read about job hunting will tell you that most people find jobs through friends and relatives, everyone from the janitor to the CEO.
I remain amazed by the number of people who think that what Hunter Biden got was such a scandal. The same MSM talkers are sure that their precious adult babies got their jobs because they are so smart? Really??
Steeplejack (phone)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Here’s the relevant thread. You can start here or search for “raven.”
Also see Cheryl Rofer’s comment here.
patrick II
@PenAndKey:
Him and about half of the country. Running the government like a business is their aspiration.
PPCLI
@Betty Cracker:
I agree. It’s crazy to defend Hunter Biden or pretend that his actions didn’t create a damaging appearance of impropriety.
The answer to “what did Burisma think they would get for their money”? Should be something like “They probably thought they could get Joe Biden to do things like protect the corrupt prosecutor Shulkin who was protecting them. But they clearly wasted their money because Joe joined the rest of our allies and the UN in insisting that Shulkin be removed for failing to investigate corruption”.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: What you said — every single word. The one thing that reduces my anxiety is that the press doesn’t seem as willing to swallow the Trump line on Joe Biden the way they did with Clinton. But then I remember The Times had the Ken Vogel series on “corruption cloud hanging over Biden’s bid” all teed up until the whistleblower foiled that plan. And I’m back to WASF…
chopper
@Gin & Tonic:
the same way US legislation can keep americans from working for companies in iran, i guess. maybe?
glory b
@Chyron HR: Amazing that we lived through Billy Carter and Clinton’s brother (whatever his name was). I seem to recall that this was a source of amusement, not outrage.
Are we at the point where every candidate must police every family member?
We have gotten so pure that Bernie is the only candidate we can consider /snark/!!
chopper
@raven:
that’s a shame, but i understand.
Betty Cracker
@PPCLI: Bingo, and followed every time by a pivot to a corrupt Trump activity where there’s not just an “appearance” of impropriety but ongoing crimes. It’s a target rich environment.
Baud
@chopper:
That applies to all Americans. It doesn’t treat the family of public officials differently.
chopper
@Kay:
that’s because he hates the democratic party more than he hates trump.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I have a theory that the Beltway press could never forgive itself for always being a little in love with Bubba. Even at the height of the Great Clenis Panic, of which she was one of the prime shit-stirrers, even MoDo could never quite get over the charming rogue aspect of his personality– and they doubled down on Hillary Hate because of it. A lot of it is misogyny, obviously, but it’s not just misogyny. There was a kind of a similar thing with the way they, and a lot of voters, reacted to Al Gore, wanting someone to pay the price that Bubba (in their eyes) never did.
gbbalto
@raven: Sorry to hear this. Hope you’ll be back.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack (phone): Well, that made things as clear as mud. I am clearly not a fan of the guy’s prose stylings, but I am still puzzled by the ban.
J R in WV
I think Cole is pretty slow to ban hammer someone. I don’t know (nor care much) what Ole Azul did, but anyone can go off the rails — perhaps while slightly under the influence? — and earn a cooling off ban at first, then post some more with a new email address to go the extra mile. I know nothing about this, missed everything but the questions.
Old Blue irked me some, while he could show flashes of smarts it was well concealed beneath his ol tyme speech patterns, which were poorly done examples of the real thing. Hope Raven comes back.
I trust Cole to do the right thing with his blog.
satby
@Steeplejack (phone): I think the relevant comment from Cheryl (and the one I remembered @Gin & Tonic:) is here
Ben Cisco
@raven: Man, I’m definitely sorry to see this.
Hope you change your mind, understand if you do not.
May the Prophets guide your path.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and if somebody can figure out how to get the obvious and relentless corruption of the trump family stick: I’m all in. A lot of this is about the machinery of politics (Republicans control the committees and call the hearing) and Josh Marshall’s at least decade-old, maybe two, observation that Washington (the media) is wired for Republicans. Tim Russert was always a direct conduit from Rush Limbaugh’s show and later Fox News to the MSM discourse. David Broder… ’nuff said. Things have changed a little for the better, but Chuck Todd still thinks he’s the height of savvy. CNN (I gather from twitter) still brings on professional liars and treats their lies as debatable facts– I see sometimes there’s pushback, sometimes there isn’t.
zhena gogolia
@raven:
What Steeplejack said. Come back, raven.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and if I can make a dumb guy bleg at the end of an aging thread: I usually read twitter on Safari, on my MacBook, the last 24 hours or so, twitter pages won’t open. I can still get it on Safari on my phone. Do I need to update to the latest OS for mac? (I usually wait a while to update, because there always seem to be bugs early on) Or install the twitter app on my laptop? I’m not signed on to twitter, I just lurk, especially with fast-coming news like the trial
chopper
@Omnes Omnibus:
i once used the word “if’n” in a post, now i’m worried.
Barbara
@PenAndKey: Yeah, this is where copies of the book should start mysteriously appearing in random websites. And remember, NYT has the whole book. Hopefully it gets passed along to some other outlet as well, so we can be on the receiving end of a competitive quest to top each other with damning tidbits. Which won’t do squat to reduce the commercial value of the book itself. Bolton is not an idiot, at least not when it comes to this kind of game.
James E Powell
@glory b:
Only the Democrats.
chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Between Sunday night and yesterday morning twitter changed the way it works and looks in a browser. Clunky as hell and I hate it. It’s probably a way to get lurkers like us to sign up. Fuckem.
Have you tried another browser? Or maybe just a browser update?
Immanentize
@chopper: Faker!! Where you also shit stirring? Not that you would ever do that….?
bemused
I’ll be watching the SOTU address if only to see trumpie standing there knowing Nancy is behind him breathing on his neck.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@chris: that’s right– I did notice that change, and it does look like shit
Thanks, I’ll try the browser update
ETA: and for those of you who can/do follow twitter: Ivanka trump and Mike Huckabee are picking a fight with the never trumpers about elitism because Rick Wilson said trump couldn’t find Ukraine on a map of Ukraine
bemused
@Betty Cracker:
How long did it take for media dragging their feet to actually use the word “lying” connected with trump? Far too long but they finally got there, more than less now.
Kay
This is what Cheryl wrote. The reasons he was banned are – his writing style, a belief that he “cultivated friends to make sure there would be two factions”, jiggering his IP.
That’s why he was banned. Perhaps the ban supporters would like that not to be true so have decided to hint that there were other, more egregious infractions, but these were the reasons given.
I’ll accept that the blog is more heavily policed than before, but don’t smear this guy to pretend it isn’t. These are the new banning reasons, apparently.
I have no earthly idea how you-all plan to enforce the “cultivating friends with secret bad motives” rule, so good luck with that.
Ben Cisco
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not that I trust that dude, but that’s some funny shit right there.
PenAndKey
@raven:
Do what you’ve got to do, because ultimately as much as we’ll miss you, your own mental health is more important. If I could offer any advice as someone who’s taken their own breaks over the years (multiple, and some long enough I forgot my nym) because of, to be blunt, assholes and pile-ons, I suggest taking a breather, do something else, write your nym down so you don’t forget it (though that might just be me), and if you decide you want to come back later know that you’re always be welcome.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Co-sign, but not very thrilled about the more heavily policed part.
Steeplejack
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Sorry, I can’t help you. I don’t use the Twitter app, just read with my browser (Firefox on Win10 or the Samsung browser on my phone). I noticed a couple of weird moments with Twitter yesterday, but nothing big and nothing ongoing.
Maybe restart your browser?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Steeplejack: thanks, I’ll try that
Kay
@BellyCat:
It was a running joke on this blog for a decade that “the trolls” were a total of two people.
DougJ’s HOBBY is pretending to be a David Brooks conservative. I still think he might have been “Bob” which means I spent 6 months explaining birth certificates to DougJ.
Steeplejack
@Ben Cisco:
Wilson also said Trump couldn’t find it if you spotted him a U and a ?.
NeutronFlux
@Kay: Does “Bob” = Brick Oven Bill?
Kay
@NeutronFlux:
Yes, thanks. I can’t believe I forgot his fake name. They started calling him “side show Bob” or maybe that was someone else.
In any event. You know who I mean – Bob or Bill :)
Sandia Blanca
@Mallard Filmore: I got into a similar discussion on Twitter–in response to my message that most organizations don’t fire people by outsourcing it to rando thugs, received these paranoid ravings: “I see what you’re saying but try & look at it from a different point of view. Could there be a reason why Trump didn’t trust the Washington establishment? Cross Fire Hurricane, FISA Abuse, Robert Mueller’s unnecessarily drawn out 2.5 yr investigation, a so called WB aka leaker?”
So impotus is simultaneously (a) all-powerful and (b) completely unable to control the Executive Branch?
satby
@Sandia Blanca: people argue in bad faith all the time. They have an opinion, then craft their arguments around that. For conservatives, this leads to a great deal of pretzel logic.
JAFD
I’m a very good speller. And a lousy typist.
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
My mom tookies me to a guy she went to school with who became a dentist… he didn’t believe in using Novocaine because patients were really being harmed by the drill, it was just pain. I had to have every filling he installed re-drilled out because he never removed all the decay, just took enough out to plug in a filling.
I now see a dentist who is compassionate and tries to never hurt a patient — he certainly injects me with a ‘caine of some sort, probably not novacaine as that’s a very old drug. But dissing a patient for not knowing the technical name of the current dental local anesthetic seems very condescending and less than helpful to me.
I’m sure Dr S would be happy to educate me about his high-tech anesthesia work if I asked, but I pay him the big bucks so I don’t have to worry about that stuff.
ETA to remove all the links for all the ‘caine compounds used in dentistry. But they are almost all ‘caines of some sort…heh.
A Ghost To Most
@Steeplejack (phone):
Thanks for the link. If Raven was called out as a troll by a FPer, I’m glad I beat the rush.
ETA Buncha candyasses.
Sandia Blanca
@satby: So true.
Just One More Canuck
@Steeplejack (phone): thanks for the link – I went back and read the whole thread. The bottom line to me is that john has a history of giving everyone here a very long leash, and it is his blog, so he sets the rules. Given that there has been numerous frontpagers driven away by trolls John may be probably has good reason to have imposed a ban
Just One More Canuck
Mardam
But Hunter Biden!!!!!
Just One More Canuck
@Just One More Canuck: Ithanks for the link – I went back and read the thread. In my view John has a long history of giving people a very long leash and only imposes a ban as a last resort. Given that there have been numerous frontpagers have been driven off by trolls, it seems that John would have seen enough to impose a ban, even if we aren’t privy to it
sorry for the multiple posts – iPad is uncooperative – I was replying to steeplejack at 162
PenAndKey
@NeutronFlux: Don’t say the dreaded name. It might remind Doug to start up again.
MomSense
@raven:
?
satby
@Just One More Canuck: yeah. After all, what could have been emailed to Cheryl may have played a part and they just may not want to open that can of worms. So most of us are only guessing based on what was stated, and lots of us don’t read well.
germy
This is deeply moving:
slightly_peeved
I’m not American, but I think the Democratic party taking a standard of ‘no family member of the president can work anywhere where the relationship could be abused’ is handing the Republicans a club to beat them with.
If there’s no evidence he tried to manipulate his father, or that he personally behaved in an unethical manner as a board member, there is no scandal.
To say his presence in a company is corrupt on its own, to me, buys into the Russian narrative that everyone in government or big business is corrupt, so why fight it?
debbie
@raven:
Thread is long dead, but I’m sad to read this.
Ohio Mom
I’m even later than Debbie and concur.
I looked for the thread in question and maybe it’s been pulled? Would have liked to see for myself what was considered ban-worthy. I would have also liked to have seen not just who started the fight, but who egged it on.
noname
@raven: Even later than the previous two but you are a class act. Best wishes to you, the Princess, and your pups.