There’s an article in the current New Yorker on the contest between Biden and Sanders for working class Democrats. It’s pretty good overall.
The author, Benjamin Wallace-Wells, isn’t necessarily discounting other figures in the race, but in this piece, he focuses on the two old codgers battling it out as the most “elemental” struggle. Refreshingly, he doesn’t use “working class” as a euphemism for downscale whites.
Here’s his assessment of how each campaign tries to appeal to voters:
The demands that each candidate is making of working-class Democrats are different but weighty. Biden is asking that they place their trust in him personally, above any political program—in his judgment, in his good faith, in the significance of his history with Barack Obama. But Sanders is in some ways making an even more ambitious demand: that they believe in the transformative power of politics itself.
Wallace-Wells notes that Biden’s crowds are typically smaller and more subdued and that the candidate often travels with pols like John Kerry and Chris Dodd. Biden seeks to connect with voters on an emotional level. Sanders has larger, more fired-up events and travels with Vampire Weekend and AOC. And of course, Sanders’ pitch is to join his revolution, which BWW implies is political rather than emotional.
That juxtaposition — emotional vs. political — might work for the candidates, but it doesn’t describe the campaigns, not if supporter reaction is an element to consider. If a bird landed on Biden’s lectern, I suspect fewer people would take it as a sign that Biden is The One, which is kind of an emotional response to a random avian encounter, at least in my book.
I’ve run into a handful of Biden Bros online, but the encounters stand out mostly because they’re so rare. Bernie Bros online are as ubiquitous as pigeons in a city park; you don’t even notice them unless they start swooping aggressively.
Anyhoo, BWW talks to working class Democrats in South Carolina about their rationale for choosing a nominee, and it sounds familiar:
…[T]here are plenty of working-class Democrats—many of them African-American or Latino, and many of them living in conservative places—who have been made especially vulnerable by the Trump Administration, and they might want to turn the temperature down.
As a Democrat in a ruby-red community, I get that. But part of me rebels against the idea of turning the temperature down.
I’ve spent more than three years seething with rage as the leering misogynist crook in the White House bellows slander against the woman he robbed of the presidency with the help of an authoritarian kleptocrat. I’m in a flame-thrower mood. But I recognize I have less to lose than many. BWW again:
One vision expands politics until it encompasses the culture; the other aims to shrink it until it fits once again in the Senate chamber, in a trusted figure in the Oval Office, in imperfect deals cut in good faith. Biden moved slowly and elegantly around the room in Indianola, with his shoulders relaxed and microphone down. He was shrinking the distance between himself and his audience, diverting them away from first principles and talking about emotions—a pol in a time of ideologues, still somehow leading in the polls. How strange it would be if this era of unrest and self-discovery—the mass progressive uprising of the Trump era—ended with Democrats choosing him.
Maybe, but I think Wallace-Wells might overestimate the role of progressivism in the uprising. There’s some of that, yes, but the reaction to Trump has also been a massive recoil against his fundamental lack of decency. Some folks see Biden as an antidote to that.
We’ll have to see how it shakes out. Open thread.
Baud
This post describes why many of us at BJ (including me) wanted someone other than Biden or Bernie. If it comes down to that, though, the choice is an easy one for me.
rikyrah
rikyrah
I have posted before:
There is nobody least surprised by the GOP than Black people living in those red States. They know exactly who these people are. They know that they didn’t change when Dolt45 became President. They were this way when 44 was President. BUT, when 44 was President, they had the protections of the Federal Government. They want those Federal protections back.
Period.
They want the Federal Government to put their foot on the necks of these red state GOPers.
Period.
And, whomever they believe will do THAT, is going to get their votes.
THAT is the most immediate concern for them….
THAT will affect their day to day lives.
Not programs that may or may not have a chance of getting into legislation.
mad citizen
Can I say “neither” Biden nor Wilmer?
Since Kamala dropped out, been trying to not follow the horserace too much (here you get a lot of course), but I wonder if any candidates ever talk about how the majority (what was it, 90+ million?) of people aren’t voting for president at all, vs one or the other candidate of the two parties? I get that you have to campaign to the people who vote, but damn, let’s expand the pool please.
germy
@Baud:
I was going to leave a comment here, but you pretty much summed up my view.
cope
Oooo, a chance to make a comment before the poo starts flinging.
Whomever the Democrats nominate, I think a good way to go after the Republicans and Trump will be to use both emotion and cold politics. These past 47 years under Trump have legitimized emotional warfare, for good and ill.
kindness
I like Joe but from what he has said he’d be a step sideways, not forward. I’m OK with Bernie even though I discount the idea that we’re all going to be all in on Bernie’s revolution 24/7 following his election (I get the idea he doesn’t know Americans very well, just his wishful view of them). I will vote for Elizabeth come Super Tuesday. She’s who I would really prefer.
In the General election vote Blue across the board because Republicans have become a mafia party.
Leto
This describes me perfectly, and how I’ve been for the past three years. It’s the second sentence that tempers that heat and keeps me focused on the larger picture. Like Baud said, if it somehow comes down to a choice between those two the choice is easy.
@rikyrah: Totally shocked. This is my shocked face. I am shocked.
OzarkHillbilly
As I said the other day, I have and will continue to throw bombs, up to the point where I think it might endanger my wife, or get her subjected to threats. That I won’t do.
Mike R
As this is an open thread and BJ has an a very good knowledge base. Can anyone suggest a site that would aid in buying a place in New Mexico. Horses are involved and going nowhere without my pals.
CarolDuhart2
Ridin with Biden here…I’ve seen this show before with Bernie types. The revolution is for everybody except old tired Black people like me who just want to live. And I trust Biden not to fuck things up even worse and to gain the trust of the few professionals left in the Federal Government and in the world.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Thought you might like to know that HeadsOnAPike and FauxOutrage are both trending for me on twitter. That’s probably twitter feeding me what it thinks I want to hear, but still, it’s encouraging.
Starfish
Tired of Old White Men 2020 is a campaign I support.
Josie
Got an email this morning from Chris Turner – state rep from Arlington, Tx – supporting Joe Biden. His main point was the need for decency and honesty in the White House. That seems to be the main thrust of Biden’s campaign.
The Dangerman
@Baud:
Put me down for Team Glass Shards to be rid of the Sharter In Chief. Easy, indeed.
Only problem, BS will get his ass beat down in November. Not Mondale or Dukakis level, but it won’t be pretty. I don’t care what the current polls say because Trump, et al, will use fire hoses of shit on him, continuously, for weeks and then, hello, another 4 years of Hell.
Biden, or anyone else, gets the shit treatment, too, but BS (and Warren, to a lesser extent) get it worse. By far.
debbie
@rikyrah:
Proves they’re Rethuglicans in hippie clothing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Mike R: When I was looking for our place in 2010 I used Realtor.com. I don’t know how good their service is in NM but for me, here, it was a Godsend. I was able to get most of the info I needed from their listings, and able to go out and check uninhabited locations, which saved a lot of time that would have been wasted with a realtor. I also got real good at spotting the places that had been foreclosed on but not yet gone to auction.
We finally settled on our 12.5 acres of ridgetop and hollers with a log cabin that needed work, even got it for $30+K under appraisal.
FelonyGovt
I think most Americans are sick of politics and tired of reading and hearing about it every day. They want someone in as President that they don’t need to think about all the time. That sounds more like Biden
burnspbesq
@kindness:
I’m fairly certain that you don’t mean to imply that Biden won’t be an improvement over Trump. I’m ok with Biden (although he’s not my first choice) because i think he understand’s that for the next Dem president, fixing all the things Trump has fucked up is Job 1. Progress comes after that.
Mike R
@OzarkHillbilly: Thanks, we are also looking for a little isolation. Not that I don’t like people, but they are usually better with a little distance.
Shalimar
@FelonyGovt: The goal of Republican politics for at least the last 30 years is to intensify hatred in their base and make everyone else sick of politics. They aren’t going to stop because Biden is president, as much as he tries and we wish it would just be normal again.
OzarkHillbilly
@Mike R: We, well I, wanted land too.We couldn’t afford the 40 acres or more that I wanted but 20-25 was within our range. We never found the right 25 but this 12.5 was all but perfect. We own the nose of ridgeline our house is on, and the hollers on either side. Our neighbors are both “over there.” They are also both good neighbors so we’ve been lucky that way too.
An almost incident I just remembered: One place I looked at had obviously been foreclosed on. I went to check it out but when I pulled up to the gate, something felt off. The house was hidden by the woods and I couldn’t say what was bothering me but my 6th sense was telling me to be careful. So discretion being the better part of valor. I figured to come back with the realtor. When I asked her about it she said, “Oh no, the ex owner is still there and several people have been shot at.” I asked why the bank that owned it was still listing it and she gave a shrug with a look of frustration on her face.
So, be careful out there.
Cacti
Not interested in replacing one Kremlin candidate with another, or one shouty, septuagenarian personality cult leader with another.
Besides, I vote for Democrats.
Screw the Vermont Marxist.
m.glafmer
As has been mentioned, neither Bernie nor Joe is my first choice. But I’ll be damned if I vote for anyone other than the Democratic candidate.
clay
@Josie:
S’funny… that was pretty much GWB’s campaign message as well. Well, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Of course, the main difference is GWB wasn’t actually running one-on-one against Clinton so he had to use Gore as a proxy. Biden would be taking on the sleaze head-to-head.
tam1MI
Mark me as Team Anybody But Bernie.
Up to and including Mike Bloomberg.
BBA
I never thought it’d happen, but I’m starting to see the appeal of Biden. For all the microaggressions, the macroaggressions, the friendships with segregationists, the handsiness and the antediluvian views… he still manages to avoid the pointless microscandals that consume every other campaign in this race. In this day and age, it’d be nice to get away from all that malarkey.
I’m still probably voting Warren, if she’s still in the race by the late April primary in New York. But if not, I can vote Biden with a more-or-less clear conscience.
dr. bloor
@burnspbesq:
This is why Biden has always been a completely acceptable option for me, even if I wish he stayed home this cycle. Whoever gets the Oval Office next will have a Hazmat-suit level mess to clean up, and most likely a recession to deal with as well, all while a probably-R Senate decides the deficit is the biggest threat to the nation again.
There’s a measurable chance that our ADHD-addled citizenry will decide POTUS hasn’t performed enough miracles by 2024, and out s/he will go. I’d rather see his career end than, say, Harris’s.
Matt McIrvin
I’m pretty sure I’m not voting for either of those guys in the primary. I can’t. Let other people work it out and I’ll support the nominee as best I can.
Brachiator
@mad citizen:
I would also like to know the magic formula that would appeal to this group. They are not a monolith. Some are stupid. Some stubbornly apolitical. Some don’t care and will simply do whatever they can to exist under any political regime. As long as they themselves are not rounded up and thrown into a cage, they don’t give a rat’s ass.
There is a recent Robert Reich commentary floating around that suggests that these people are waiting for Progressive Messiah. This is odd, since they are not rallying behind Sanders.
And a good chunk are students, who have other concerns and are understandably fickle about politics. They engage more when they get older, but while they are young and having fun, it really doesn’t matter to them if the world might end tomorrow.
Ruckus
I see the differences as one wants to be a leader but doesn’t have an actual clue and the other wants to be a leader but never quite knows how to actually do that. It’s a difference in style, quiet or shouty, and I’m not saying which is which. What I am saying is that a leader is just that, they lead. A person who wants to be a leader but isn’t, has to be shouty or soothing, and neither of those is leading.
An example would be military officers. They are not all leaders. They are designated as leaders but they just are not all leaders. The real leaders are obvious, the well trained military officers can easily get the job done because of the level office they hold and they don’t go overboard. The rest are wannabes who cause far more damage than one can imagine. Politicians are the same, with the differences being there is no real training for the middle ground. It follows the Peter Principle, that people rise to the their level of incompetence. If they are good they pull back just a bit from that, and possibly learn how to do better, if they are not they just try to push through it. If they are horrible they are like Pompeo or trump, they abuse power massively because they are in so far over their heads and they don’t have a fucking clue but they do have plenty of ego.
DougJ
This is a very smart post.
Major Major Major Major
Of the candidates actually in the running (Biden, Sanders, Warren, Pete, Klob, Bloomberg), Sanders would be the worst president. Second to Trump, of course. Compared to that, it doesn’t matter to me, so much, how they campaign.
Brachiator
@FelonyGovt:
This may be true for Democrats, but not Republicans. Not in the same way. Republicans want the press and everyone else to shut up and let Trump do whatever he wants to do.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: Youth participation in politics is actually way up–but it’s way up to a level that is still criminally low. That is to say, it was way worse when we were young.
Miss Bianca
@Mike R: I can put you in touch with horse people in NM, in the unlikely event that our NM-based commenters can’t. Ask Adam to arrange an email introduction.
Mnemosyne
I’m coming around to Joe. We’re going to be cleaning the Augean stables once the ? asshole is gone, and we really need to focus on that for at least the first six months rather than trying to ram through a “revolution.”
janesays
@mad citizen: The last time the majority of Americans who are old enough to vote (which includes people who aren’t registered to vote or aren’t allowed to vote) but didn’t in a presidential election was 1996. In 2016, 55.7% of the voting age population participated in the presidential election. The highest turnout in the last 50 years was in 2008, when 58.2% showed up. Relative to much of the free world, those numbers are pretty terrible, but it’s not quite as bad as you might think. The midterm elections, obviously, are almost always below 50% participation (though last time it was a little above it, but it was the highest in decades).
janesays
@Mnemosyne: My biggest trepidation about a Biden presidency is that we won’t be doing nearly enough to clean out the stables. To be clear, I’m not concerned that a Biden Administration would continue the corruption, more that a Biden Administration would do very little or nothing to address the corruption of his predecessor, given Biden’s irritating worship of comity and bipartisanship. One of the most frustrating things Obama did as president was turn the other cheek on the crime spree that took place during Dubya’s time on office. Nothing about Biden’s demeanor leads me to believe his approach to Trump’s crimes would be any different.
Which is unfortunate.
Ruckus
@mad citizen:
Some of those people who don’t vote are not allowed to, by at least a couple of means. In many places a criminal record stops you from voting. Gerrymandering works wonders for bending the vote in a direction you desire and is common in a number of places. That doesn’t mean the lines are always drawn unfairly – I lived outside Schiff’s district by the width of a street, last apt. Half the width actually. Nothing against my rep but she isn’t Adam Schiff. But it does make some not bother to vote because they won’t be counted with the same level of power that any/every citizen is supposed to have.
One of the things I think we need to decide on and fix in this country is equality. Equality of each person, to be considered a human, to have the rights, the power, and yes the equality of every other person. An example of this – criminal pays the price of being one by serving a sentence prescribed in law, and that price ends when they have done that. They get another chance to be a citizen. In countries where that is the norm the percentage of criminals is far lower. We seem to like that puritanical concept of once a non observer, always a non observer. Which of course is self serving, if you are considered always to be something, what else can you do in a closed society?
janesays
@Cacti: Sanders is my second last choice among potential Democrats (Gabbard is last), but if you actually think that he’s as bad as Trump to the point that you wouldn’t vote for him if he’s the nominee, you’re an asshole.
Whoever takes the oath in 2021 will almost certainly get to choose one (and very likely two) of the next Supreme Court justices. I guarantee you that the differences in potential nominees that either one of those people would make would be far from minuscule.
If Sanders is the nominee and you don’t vote for him out of spite, you are voting to overturn Roe v. Wade, and you are throwing every single woman of child-bearing age in this country under the bus in the process. You are voting to overturn decades of civil rights legislation, and you are throwing every single person of color and every LGBT person under the bus as well.
Bernie Sanders is an insufferable asshole, many of his supporters are even worse, but if the choice is him or Trump, I’ll vote for Sanders knowing that if he wins, I can take comfort in the knowledge that SCOTUS won’t become a 6-3 or 7-2 far right wingnut majority that is going to inflict massive pain on millions of Americans
To be clear, if I misread you, I apologize. Trump is the worst thing to happen to this country in my lifetime, and literally every single person running for the Democratic nomination would be a vast improvement (even Tulsi, barf) over what we’ve got right now. This November presents an existential crisis for this nation, and there is only one correct choice if you wish to avert that crisis – you vote for the person who has the (D) next to their name no matter what. Even if you can’t stand them, even if they haven’t had a (D) next to their name for most of their political career. Not voting in 2020 is a luxury we don’t have.
janesays
@Major Major Major Major: See, this is a fair point. I don’t agree with it (because I think Tulsi Gabbard is actually worse than Sanders), but I’ve got no beef with anyone saying that Sanders sucks, they don’t like him, they wish he wasn’t running, they really hope he isn’t the nominee – so long as they also acknowledge that Trump is unambiguously worse in the same breath.
We’ve all gotta be on Team Broken Glass this November. Choosing not to do that is saying “Fuck you” to a lot of people who would probably suffer even worse than you under a second Trump term.
Ruckus
@FelonyGovt:
This is a ploy that republicans have played for my entire life. Their policies make life worst for most and they know it and embrace it. But they can’t come out and say that or they couldn’t win anything. So they lie. People wonder why and how they lie so easily and it’s because they’ve been doing it for so long, most of them don’t know it’s a lie, it’s just the way it is. But the country and the world is changing, the population is growing, the industrialization is continuing and places that we considered total backwards disasters no longer are. Technology has made the world effectively smaller, the power of some things less likely so that just having the biggest military is no longer the end all be all that it was a few decades ago. And financial power has changed in the same manner. People have financial power in ways they couldn’t not all that long ago. And that has made some uber wealthy and many more have never been able to get above uber poor. Humans will always have that dichotomy because people in any group larger than a couple will always be at differing stages of life, but it’s once again way out of balance and conservatives around the world are the prime culprit of making it far worse. And some “liberals” are all for talking a good game, and as long as they get the majority of benefits, they don’t give a shit about anyone else. Which makes them only slightly better than the conservatives, who think that no one else, those in the out groups, should get squat.
mad citizen
I know this thread is near dead, but I appreciate the thoughtful and informative responses about voting from ruckus and janesays. When I was much younger, I remember some people said they would not vote because they didn’t want the possibility of being called for jury duty.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@kindness:
When your standing point is Trump, Biden would be a giant step forward.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@CarolDuhart2:
Me too. Well said. I trust Biden on this.
FelonyGovt
I was only referring to people who are sick to death of hearing about Trump every day and crave less drama.
@Ruckus:
Justin Faulkner
Can there be any more perfect antithesis to Trump’s cynical, lying, essentially antisocial and inhumane using of people, than the genuine connection to and trust of the decency of one man?
Matt McIrvin
Biden: wrong theory of partisan dynamics in the United States, which he’s working through only reluctantly.
Sanders: wrong theory of racial dynamics in the United States, which he’s working through only reluctantly.
Warren: wrong theory of how to publicly describe her own racial background/family history, which she’s working through only reluctantly.
Of the three, Warren’s issues are by far the least potentially damaging.
Heywood J.
It’s interesting how many political writers and analysts all seem to reach the conclusion that anger was a critical factor in motivating Trump voters, but heaven forfend that Democratic voters and libruls might be angry. Fuck that shit — I want them all out now, and I want the Democratic candidates to fight like their lives and the lives of their constituents depend on it.
Half-measures will achieve nothing but noble failure. Get pissed and fight hard. There is nothing else at this point. If people can’t get angry about wide-open treason, then we really are done.
Biden, Bernie, Warren — hell, I’ll vote for Tulsi or Marianne if it comes to it. Anyone but Trump. No more Republicons, ever, for any office. I used to be a ticket-splitter, frequently voting for Republicans for local or state races, but never again. It would be nice if the scriveners took that factor into mind, but I suppose they’d have to get out of the haunted Pennsyltucky diners and talk to fake ‘murkins like me.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Mike R:
I haven’t read past this comment, but if you don’t get any action try reposting in the Sunday morning garden thread. That’s usually politics-free, has a wide readership and would be a better shot at getting you some replies.
jl
@rikyrah: Has anyone looked into how much ‘Bernie-bro’ activity is directly from to Russian bots and trolls?
Thanks to BC for an interesting post. I take it as an indirect argument for Warren, but I am biased since she is still my first choice.
rekoob
@Miss Bianca:@Mike R: Although I don’t have a horse in this fight, I’ll recommend looking between Santa Fe and Raton. Call it San Miguel County and north. Good land on either side of Interstate 25. I’m thinking, now with Quinerly’s review of Las Vegas (NM), that I may concentrate my explorations around there. Another option would be south of Albuquerque towards Socorro, since there are some nice grasslands (can you believe it?) on I-25 here and there.