We’re less than a year to inaugurating a Democratic President. But for now, the impeachment trial.
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This post is in: Impeachment, Live Blogging, Trump Crime Cartel
We’re less than a year to inaugurating a Democratic President. But for now, the impeachment trial.
Comments are closed.
oatler.
Listen to ABC bothsides the bejesus out of this thing.
EriktheRed
Assumes facts not in evidence
tomtofa
It’s all about process now. They’re warming up for the Super Bowl.
BGinCHI
Will the GOP pay a political price for a corrupt, law-breaking President and a complicit response?
That’s the question, fundamentally.
They have a majority in the Senate and can do all the bullshit they want. How all this affects the next election is the ballgame.
zhena gogolia
@BGinCHI:
I guess we have to channel our anger into action.
My only cheering thought is that the impeachment slowed him down and wounded him, like a raging rogue elephant.
bemused
@oatler.:
Not gonna do it. My BP won’t allow it.
BGinCHI
@zhena gogolia: Yes. The GOP ain’t gonna change. We can see who they’ve always been. Anyone who isn’t part of the solution is part of the problem.
debbie
I didn’t make it past 10 minutes listening to McConnell’s denture-impaired smugness and instead am listening to some Telemann. It was working very well until I read Aleta’s post from this morning with Juan Cole’s remarks about Dershowitz’s “degrees of civilianity.” An alleged member of the Jewish faith speaking as calculatingly as Goebbels! I am destined to be very angry today.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
Ah, you must not have heard his remarks at Davos, imploring the world to be less pessimistic and instead be optimistic like the U.S. //
Cheryl Rofer
jayjaybear
@oatler.: Ugh! Husband had one of the morning shows on when he got up to go to work. I was laying in bed, involuntarily listening and occasionally screaming SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU REPUBLICUNT SHILL! It wasn’t really a calm morning.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@EriktheRed:
Can we please not do that?
CaseyL
Called my two Senators, Cantwell and Murray, who are definitely among the Good Ones. First thanked them both for fighting the good fight against Trump and the GOP. Suggested, in both calls, that Democrats do daily en masse press conferences to state the fact that Trump is an at-best unwitting and at worst entirely deliberate asset of an enemy, working to undermine the US; and that the GOP, in protecting him, is an accessory to that.
chris
For some reason I bookmarked this site back 2016. It’s no good to me but maybe some of you can use it. Fax your Senators!
Librarian
Well. at least Roberts didn’t put gold stripes on his robe like that vain jackass Rehnquist.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
I left messages for Romney and Collins. I’m now on hold for murkowski listening to martial music
OMG, first “When Johnny Comes Marching Home,” now “The Caissons Go Rolling Along.” These people are all about cardboard patriotism, aren’t they? My God, my God.
germy
GregMulka
@bemused: Same.
germy
In other news:
MJS
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Seconded. The Eeyore-ing gets tiresome. What’s happening is bad enough without pretending November, 2018; Kentucky and Louisiana, 2019; 70% supporting witnesses; and 51% supporting Trump’s removal never happened.
zhena gogolia
I actually talked to a staffer in Murkowski’s office who said she was going to make up her mind after hearing the opening statement. “She will be following the Bill Clinton procedures” or something like that. I’m sure that’s code for “Fuck you.”
JPL
I turned it off. I still wish the democratic senators would stand up and say this is bull shit and walk out
zhena gogolia
@JPL:
Can you guess how the media would play that one?
Cheryl Rofer
Adam Schiff speaking now
Cheryl Rofer
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@germy:
As much as I dislike Greenwald, I can’t help but see this in a negative light, given who’s in power in Brazil
Baud
@germy:
Brazil has a fascist government too, so I’ll root for injuries with this one.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@MJS:
Exactly. It’s not completely hopeless.
Also, does anybody else think that Congressional leaders shouldn’t have complete control over the C-Span feeds?
Baud
@JPL:
Performance art is neither performance not art. Discuss.
germy
Midnight Mitch
debbie
@Baud:
We’ll see how far smugness gets him.
Immanentize
@germy: In other, other news:
Sanders Apologizes for Surrogate’s Claim that Biden is Corrupt
It is who they are. Who he is.
debbie
@Immanentize:
B.S. from BS.
By the way, I just saw your and G&T’s consensus that Dersh went nuts with 9/11. I disagree; he first became enamored of himself during the OJ trial.
Immanentize
@Baud: This is the question I had when I saw it earlier — Did GG and the Intercept just publish stolen emails and messages (like the NYTimes) or did he direct or conspire with others to do the stealing (a la Wikileaks). If the former, fuck Bolsanaro, and I will do all I can to support GG. If the latter, I am on record saying the “reporters” in England who themselves stole voice mails of the rich and famous should do time. But still, fuck Bolsanaro.
JPL
@Baud: Deep. That’s unusual from you .. just sayin
Immanentize
@debbie: He was all about him before then — the whole Claus Von Bulow representation (early 1980s) was primarily a Dershowitz publicity event.
catclub
@Cheryl Rofer: The real tragedy is that all the other GOP senators get a pass on this. They have no agency to be better, and none is assumed.
Immanentize
@Baud:
Is this sentence a piece of performance art-not?
hitchhiker
I just read that Romney is advising Democrats not to be outraged about everything, because in his opinion if everything is an outrage, then nothing is an outrage.
I understand the point to be, “Just wait, suckers! If you think this is bad, you’re going to be really mad when you see what comes next.”
Thanks, Mitt. We already know that.
germy
@Immanentize: In other, other, other news:
https://deadstate.org/guy-who-says-god-sends-natural-disasters-to-punish-gays-has-his-home-destroyed-in-a-natural-disaster/
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
@debbie:
I don’t know. Stopped clocks are right at least twice a day. Greenwald is an arrogant ass, but I think Bolsonaro would love nothing more than to get rid of GG if he could and is taking his chance here. Did GG actually reveal wrongdoing among the anti-corruption task force?
catclub
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yes, the whole point in supporting rights is supporting and protecting those rights for people you don’t like. Anybody can support rights for popular people.
JPL
@Immanentize: but, but he voted for Hillary, which doesn’t matter if he lives in MA or NY.
catclub
@germy: in other news from three fucking years ago.
catclub
McConnell is also claiming he is following them, except when its not quite convenient. I am glad Pelosi is calling him a liar for saying he would. No beating around the bush.
Immanentize
@JPL: He says he voted for Hillary.
The guy is Adelson with less money but with tenure.
Immanentize
@catclub: Did he actually live in a camper?
Another Scott
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Immanentize:
If he did directly conspire, then he broke the law. Then again the question remains: do you trust the prosecutors and the police in Brazil?
Baud
@JPL:
Voting for Hillary is a precondition for being a decent person. It does not demonstrate decency when there is other evidence to the contrary.
Immanentize
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): No, I don’t trust them. But I don’t trust them much here either. It’s in my nature to be suspicious of those who have power over freedom (and life).
germy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): No, I don’t.
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The excerpt I quoted has two allegations. The first, if true, seems illegal. The second does not. Of course, both allegations are being paraphrased by the NYT and are not the actual allegations.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
Interesting. But the 12 hour days, with no (bathroom or meals) break, 1:00 PM to 1:00 AM format was not in any universe a reasonable ask. (OK maybe for young soldiers in basic training. Not for older senators. Probably not even for M. McConnell. )
So if he tries to spin this as compromise, he will be (is?) absolutely, totally full of shit. I would have walked out of a car dealership if they made an first move analogous to that, loudly complaining to the floor manager and anyone within earshot.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@catclub:
Agreed
Sloane Ranger
Adam Schiff is making a very strong opening argument. I see Moscow Mitch has already made changes to his proposed procedures.
Cheryl Rofer
Cipollone and Sekulow now
Cheryl Rofer
Distorting Schiff’s words. These guys just lie and lie.
Cheryl Rofer
Now misrepresenting the Mueller Report.
I keep thinking back, over these weeks, to what we used to say about Lyndon Johnson.
– How do you know when he’s lying?
– When his lips are moving
Back then, I thought that was excessive. But it’s all too accurate now for pretty much anyone with an (R) after their name.
germy
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
I think the paraphrasing is close enough, isn’t it?
As you said, they’re only allegations at this point.
Re-reading your comment, I can see you meant that you wanted the Brazilian government to get egg on it’s face too.
@germy:
@Immanentize:
I feel exactly the same way
chris
Fleeting Expletive
Just a hypothetical, but after this trial is over, if worse comes to worse, what if Senate Dems were to introduce a resolution that would make Republicans individually vote to validate and affirm every fucking rotten thing this admin has done? Like, call it The Glorious Path of Maximum Pressure through Shock and Awe, or the We Support Everything Our Fearless Leader Can Think Of in Perpetuity Act, or Climate change is a Hoax Act and make Republicans put their precious majority votes on the record supporting them.
The on the record votes currently underway on impeachment kind of serve the same purpose, in that conscience and shame are still appropriate appeals from the Democratic side. It’s so disheartening that so many are knaves and fools.
Kay
I think the trial doesn’t bother me as much as you-all since I think we’re gonna win the election. I do! Policy and ideology and criminality aside these people just suck as people.
I know many of you are superstitious but since I’m not I don’t have to worry about “jinxing” things :)
The magic of jinxing is only operative if you’re a believer.
Rommie
This is basically calling the House Managers traitors that need to be punished after this business is settled. This isn’t going to end well, and I had dim hopes to start with.
Cheryl Rofer
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Cheryl Rofer:
I wonder how Robert Mueller feels about all of this? Is he unable to comment publicly about this? Or is he still a loyal Republican?
Kay
There are some charming criminals. You get to know them, they have some good qualities. You think “you could have made an honest living!”
Not here. These people are otherwise unemployable.
J R in WV
NBC/MSNBC have carried the video and audio feed uninterrupted so far, although we lost our over the air NBC broadcast, when I shifted to MSNBC audio feed. Schiff did a good job.
Republican lawyers are now lying about how grand juries work, how the House wanted to function, lying about everything…
Kay
I don’t know if it works but it’s delightful because it drives Trump crazy.
dww44
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Yes, I appreciate Cheryl’s positivity. That’s the only way we can win. Succumbing to the negativity is not going to bend the arc towards justice. We keep the focus on the complicity of the GOP Senate in supporting Trump. Then we win next November.
Baud
@Kay:
It’s like gravity. #LooneyToons
debbie
Any signs of Gym yet? I heard he was made a special member of the team.
Cheryl Rofer
Recess. Go give some money upstairs to Democrats running for Senate.
Juju
@Kay: I agree 100%. As you have pointed out numerous times garbage people make garbage choices in hiring people. All who come in contact with Trump end up being charmless garbage. The people raised by Trump typically have an extra layer of charmless slime oozing about the garbage.
WaterGirl
@Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for the note that Adam Schiff had started speaking. I was able to catch him almost from the beginning.
He really is terrific, and kudos to Nancy Pelosi for spotting talent, grooming him, and helping to put him in the position he holds today.
I couldn’t even listen to a full 2 minutes of the lying liar who lies, aka the president’s lawyer who started speaking next.
Then I watched Now This on twitter. (everyone should watch it)
I felt so angry after watching that that when my conservative evangelical sister texted me right afterwards to ask if I am feeling better after being under the weather, I answered “yes”. when she replied that this is not a very cheery time of year, I wrote this:
That is not going to go over well. It was in total violation of our “we don’t talk about politics” rule of thumb.
Looks like it’s time for me to run a couple of errands and try to cool off.
jimmiraybob
American democracy is largely aspirational.
JPL
@WaterGirl: Good.. If she is upset, mention this is how hitler became who he was. You are not accusing him of mass murder but he is demagogue who needs to be stopped.
good job
Kay
@Juju:
Pelosi delivered it to the GOP and they are, of course, desperately protecting these awful people because the more that comes out the worse it is for them. But they can’t avoid an election and they’re not going to get any better between now and November. They always get worse.
Kraux Pas
But watch them try
Wakeshift
I note that Sekulow and then Cipolline wasted no time embodying the “pound the table” clause of the “When the facts are on your side…” dictum.
Tried to count the logical fallacies in their statements and failed utterly, but they seemed intent on full coverage.
JPL
@WaterGirl: This is a good ad on why we fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=KOkn6zfRuAk&feature=emb_logo
Cheryl Rofer
Schiff up again
Fair Economist
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Very much so. The judge leading the whole project, and making the rulings, said in some of the revealed messages that the entire project was just a show to attack Rousseff and da Silva, the left party leaders.
Cheryl Rofer
Oh, good. “They said nothing about the resolution.”
Wakeshift
Schiff back up to address Schumer’s amendment; begins by eviscerating Defense’s lack of defense.
He is outstanding.
p.a.
@jimmiraybob: The Constitution has basically been a scrap of paper (“promissory note”, at best) for much of our history.
These people treat it like toilet paper.
satby
Jim Wright at Stonekettle Station.
polyorchnid octopunch
@JPL: If it’s not deep, it’s on the surface.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Personally, I think Congress shouldn’t have any control over the C-SPAN feeds. First Afuckingmendment.
Cheryl Rofer
Zoe Lofgren up
zhena gogolia
Schiff is the only person I can listen to. I can’t even listen to Zoe Lofgren.
Juju
@Kay: I agree, and that doesn’t matter with Trump’s base, it’s just a matter of how many gullible people in some swing states can be swayed to vote for Trump again. My guess is not as many as before.
WaterGirl
@Kay: Did anyone speak before Adam Schiff? Maybe Pelosi?
MazeDancer
Don’t care if he”s a white guy, Adam Schiff for Veep.
He smoked those lying stunt lawyers
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Are they doing opening arguments now or is Zoe Lofgren still making arguments about the vote regarding trial rules? I’m a little lost.
Ksmiami
@germy: thots and prayers asshole, thots and prayers
Barbara
@Immanentize: The Guardian’s consistently gullible coverage of Sanders is why I have trouble sending it money. IMO, they view him through the lens of the Labour Party in the UK without a lot of thought about how differently U.S. politcal parties and the U.S. political system are.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
I’m enjoying her presentation very much. Facts are such pesky things!
Wakeshift
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Rep Lofgren is speaking to the necessity of receiving subpoenaed WH documents, which is the purpose of Schumer’s amendment.
she is doing so in a way that uses the 1-hr time block to present/augment the core case broadly, as well as supporting the amendment in particular.
The house managers seem to be taking the approach that they will use all available procedural time to make the case, knowing that McConnell will seek to limit or obstruct them at all times.
Seems realistic and smart.
Citizen Alan
@Barbara: And also without acknowledging that Labour just self-destructed under the leadership of the man viewed (fairly or not) as the British Bernie Sanders.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@MazeDancer:
He’s so impressive.
I know this is irrelevant to the impeachment, but I recently read that he ran the DC triathlon a couple of years back. That’s a man with discipline and determination.
Wakeshift
Philbin, and apparently the entire defense strategy:
We can’t defend the indefensible, so we’ll attack the prosecution and the process. Why didn’t House Dems get the evidence we actively hid from them? Invalid!
debbie
The liars are up and lying again.
smintheus
When did Democrats admit that they lacked evidence to convict Trump, or that they had no case? I must have missed that.
Not being a lawyer, I’m also unfamiliar with the Republicans’ principle that testimony and other evidence should not be presented during a trial, otherwise the judge should sanction you.
wvng
Really impressed by the House Managers. They are certainly laying out a case that republicans will not be able to contest on the facts, but if facts mattered they would just stop now and vote to convict. And wouldn’t that be a good joke on Trump!
Wakeshift
@wvng:
Defense is basing its case on an entirely separate (meaning imaginary) set of facts. The history of the process they’re discussing only took place in Fox News coverage. It’s an interesting strategy, impressive in their diabolical commitment to a consistent fiction.
Raoul
I got a strong ‘dead-on-the-inside / Stephen Miller vibe from GOP’s new lawyer Patrick Philbin.
Oh, BTW, Philbin was involved in the John Yoo torture scandal / moral collapse.
Wakeshift
Vote to kill the amendment to subpoena WH documents:
Y 53
N 47
Rs kill it
Schumer introduces amendment to subpoena documents from State Dept.
Round 2: Fight!
Cheryl Rofer
Val Demings – I love her!
The Truffle
@Wakeshift: Wow. Glad Schumer isn’t letting up.
And these coverups need to be included in every election ad the Dems put out.
Bill Arnold
@The Truffle:
The Senate itself really is on trial.
Wakeshift
Another interesting contrast:
both prosecution and defense came prepared with message, strategy, talking points, etc.
but the House Managers are also flexible and adapting to the arguments of the defense, who cannot deviate from the script.
its odd to watch them repeat statements that were just dissected minutes earlier, like they stop listening whenever a Democrat speaks.
Deming is passionate, and driving ahead with the narrative in this next block.
there is clear and effective coordination with Schumer; Schiff et al came prepared to use each amendment debate segment to advance the case as well as demonstrate the willful blindness of the R senators. I know they are shameless (sinverguenza was it?) but hopefully not all viewers are.
The Senate itself is on trial – exactly right
Wakeshift
Cipollone:
”we’re not interested in hearing any facts. Why didn’t the house do the thing the WH blocked?!”
Sekulow:
”here’s what those people testified, and you need to ignore all the stuff that contradicts it. You’re not allowed to think or decide for yourselves, here’s the correct way to think.”
<Scary Stuff! Aaaaahhh!>
alright, I’m done. I can’t listen any more.
Lurker penance fulfilled for now, done live-spamming the thread. Thanks all
Skepticat
During the Watergate hearings, I worked in a television station and thus watched them all day long. I’ll never forget Alexander Butterfield rather casually dropping the bomb about the tapes. Of course, this never went to impeachment. During the Clinton debacle, I didn’t have access to a TV, was working long hours, and thought it was so aggravating that I didn’t want to dignify it by paying that much attention. Now I have neither electricity, a television, the time, nor the stomach or mental fortitude to watch the Rethuglicans brazenly and without apology destroy democracy. Even thinking or reading about the run-up is enough to make me profoundly sick and angry. My senators used to be Bill Cohen and George Mitchell, back in the days when I had faith in my country and its institutions. I still respect Angus King, but now I waste pixels on Susan Collins and know I might as well not bother. I fear the outcome of this charade, as I think it’s predetermined. Wake me when it—and our country—are over.
WaterGirl
@Skepticat: As it is, I am struggling with this. If I were in your shoes, I think it would put me over the edge. Which just goes to show that you must be a tougher person than I am.
Keep hanging in there, and we’ll try to keep the shitshow from winning again in November.