I like the fact that marrying a hard working black woman gave Harry the stones to get off the dole and work.
— Blahblah, something holiday, Cipher (@snarkylicious) January 8, 2020
Entertainment value has always been part of a royal family’s utility; now that there are better ways of managing foreign policy, that’s arguably their highest utility…
After holding an emergency meeting with her grandson, Queen Elizabeth gave her blessing to Prince Harry and Meghan Markle's desire to step back as senior members of the royal family and live part-time in North America https://t.co/U8ekWmwfKM pic.twitter.com/duj5CDimzW
— Reuters (@Reuters) January 14, 2020
So, it’s hard on Grandma that her youngest great-grandchild won’t be quite as accessible, going forward. On the other hand, the Designated Heir (to the designated heir, but c’mon, Charles is unlikely to ever achieve the role he’s literally waited for since his birth) has certainly shown willing, having already produced three more contestants between Harry and the throne.
Harry certainly has no reason to appease the British media; after driving his beloved (if unstable) mother to her death, the tabloids have done their best to just-ask-questions into convincing their readers that Harry isn’t even Charles’ son, and that was before he had the nerve to — shall we say — color outside the lines when it came to picking a spouse to generate another generation of public entertainment.
And it’s not as though the young family is gonna be indigent when they ask for Canadian sanctuary:
… According to British press reports, Harry’s net worth is estimated to be around $39 million, most of it inherited from his mother, Princess Diana, and his great-grandmother, the Queen Mother. Meghan’s net worth is estimated to be around $5 million, much of it coming from her acting role on the TV series “Suits.”…
The Family has reputedly been discussing a heavy-duty revamp, where the ‘less central’ members would be weaned off the public teat. It will probably be speculated, some day, that the Harry/Meghan ‘escape’ was the semi-covert start of this laudable plan.
Corgi down, Corgi Down ! pic.twitter.com/FCg9tAK5eD
— 41 Strange (@41Strange) January 11, 2020
Kent
In case someone here doesn’t understand at least part of the issue:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ellievhall/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-double-standards-royal
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
A lot of idiots are giving Megan and Harry shit for this decision for god knows why. After what happened to Diana, and this recent plan by the Royal Family, it was pretty much inevitable. But racists still want to blame Meghan and call Harry “ungrateful” for it
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
Yep, I was getting ready to link to that same article. It was pretty horrifying to see how the exact same behavior was reported in such diametrically opposed ways by the exact same tabloids.
I was pretty sure that QE2 was going to agree because Harry is very clearly the favorite grandson and he really doesn’t have much of a purpose now that there are three kids between him and being William’s heir. Plus I would like to think that all of the bad PR about his uncle Randy Andy is making it obvious that Harry will need more to occupy his time than parties.
Mnemosyne
Also, I wonder if there’s some feeling that has been expressed by Charles that the tabloids helped break up his marriage to Diana, and/or that they helped break up Andrew’s marriage to Fergie. Obviously, his marriage to Diana had a lot of problems from the start, but the oppressive tabloid coverage couldn’t have helped.
prostratedragon
A lot of this stuff is driven of course by the British tabloid press, i.e. Murdoch, who wants to be king himself I’ve always believed, in addition to his many other defects. If he can’t have it, nobody can.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
@Mnemosyne:
Just glanced at it. It’s pretty vile and completely brazen. It’s like night and day.
Also, who the fuck thought it was a great idea to grant the Daily Fail special royal access?
Amir Khalid
Harry and Meghan have $44 million? They’re not broke. They’ll be fine.
Dan B
@Amir Khalid: I wonder if the crown will provide security? That gets pricey fast.
mrmoshpotato
@Dan B: Well, you know England will have an additional 350 million pounds a week now…
Duane
@Dan B: Books, speeches, and some Costco grand openings should cover it.
Lapassionara
@Kent: I saw this, and only those who are willfully blind to their own racism will not grasp the mean-spirit behind the different “takes” on virtually the identical conduct. Piers Morgan, I am looking at you.
I saw an exhibit of Islamic Art yesterday, and while my Scottish ancestors were painting themselves blue, Islamic culture had incorporated an ideal of human beauty that included almond-shaped eyes and round faces, influenced no doubt by their interaction with far Asian cultures. These artifacts were from the area now known as Iraq and Iran. They had managed to embrace human differences, rather than to scorn them and use them as a basis to feel superior.
mrmoshpotato
@Duane: Costco grand openings! ?
Msb
@ Dan
i think the British State will cover security, and it’s said the Canadians have offered to do it.
“The Family has reputedly been discussing a heavy-duty revamp, where the ‘less central’ members would be weaned off the public teat.”
Prince Charles has been pushing for this for years, but this move and Andrew’s disgrace, should accelerate the process. This has been happing big other royal families: the Swedes most recently.
NotMax
Scads of unanswered questions, such as who pays for their security details in Canada, the Canadian government or the U.K.? As he is not a Canadian citizen, what type of visa would apply? Does making use of, claiming privilege from or cashing in on a title of royalty run afoul of legality?
Dan B
@mrmoshpotato: That is so reassuring to hear.
I lurves witchy egonomics.
/s
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@NotMax:
Did you see my comment at 40 last thread? Sorry for seeming like I was yelling at you. I was only venting about the crappy state the world is in at the moment
Duane
@mrmoshpotato: The opportunities are everywhere. Harry’s Fish and Chips, Markle’s Sparkles. (Think makeup.) “Costco – where America’s Royalty shops!”
Dan B
@mrmoshpotato: Seattle approves of local company openings in distant Canadia!
We actually approve of Costco – good employee treatment as a core of the company brand and not messing with local politics.
And Harry could draw some fan girl love. (And some fan boys also.)
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
I saw it. No yelling nor animus of any type was perceived on my end. It’s all good.
The world is always in a crappy state. As a species we’ve steadily gotten more adept at putting our clever hands to manufacturing crapitude. ;)
“If men as individuals surrender to the call of their elementary instincts, avoiding pain and seeking satisfaction only for their own selves, the result for them all taken together must be a state of insecurity, of fear, and of promiscuous misery.”
– Albert Einstein
Emma from FL
OK, I am not a monarchist, but I know how to count. By the numbers:
1. How much tax money goes to the Royal Family: As of 2018, 69 pence per person for a total of 165 million pounds a year
2. How much money does the UK make off royal-related tourism: As of 2018, 595 million pounds a year
3. How much has the Prince’s Trust (Charles’ pet project) contributed to young people in vulnerable circumstances: from 2006 to 2016: 1.5 billion pounds
4. How much money did Harry and Meghan’s wedding generated: about 1 billion pounds
And they pay taxes.
It seems to me they’re a damn bargain.
prostratedragon
prostratedragon
@prostratedragon:
Clam?
NotMax
@prostratedragon
Durian.
:)
mrmoshpotato
@prostratedragon: Brainworm and flesh-eating virus dip? Because you’ve clearly gone mad.
Spc123
@NotMax: Visa to start isnt an issue – certain commonwealth countries still have a one time 2 year work permit available for reciprocal states I believe and once established there will be no issues extending as long as he has some econ activity there even if only part time.
Aussie Sheila
What the f is this about? I live in a constitutional monarchy and frankly no one except reactionary idiots give a damn. And that includes pretty right wing Liberal sites in Oz.
What amazes me about the US centre left is how easily they are sucked up regarding the pr bs that is the the UK monarchy ™, and how blind they are to the fact their own polity has been designed to give one person, the US president, the kind of powers that no monarch in the English speaking world has had since the first liberal party government in the U.K. in the first half of the 19th century. For fs, get a grip. No one living in the real world in the thsese polities really gives a damn what happens to them. They are both wealthy, they are no where near the throne, and the angst about Megan Markle’s treatment while correct, will not change the nature of the British tabloids one iota.
The Tory mob is an ancient and venerable tradition in the U.K. and the US has its own version. Looking at you , Obama to Trump voters and the cable news media and ny times that gave them so much exposure.
One of the failures of the US centre left is the failure to really comprehend how class politics work. That’s why the rethugs beat the living crap out of the US centre left. While I agree with Sanders’ positions on issues, I think that Warren would be a much better vector for reform in the US context. However, unless people here can drop the hurt fee fees about 2016, it looks like Biden will win the nom, and Trump the general.
In case of the usual blowback, I am a registered member of the ALP, I work every election going door to door, and I have forty years in TU organising.
I am aghast at the idiocy of this post , and the fecklessness of otherwise decent people in the face of what is real, existing right wing authoritarianism and a possible war, let alone the abject situation of the US working class.
I just dont don’t get how a subject that no one who is politically active in the rest of the English speaking world give a rats about, gets a post here, just above a post about the next round of Putin rat f…ing and the seeming incapacity of the mighty Democratic Party to do anything about. FFS!
prostratedragon
@mrmoshpotato:
Hey, I’m just the messenger here!
prostratedragon
@NotMax:
Ummm, boy! Just looked up durian and think you could be onto something there.
opiejeanne
@Duane: I remember Princess Di opening a Vons Pavillion in SoCal in the 80s?, might have been Arcadia. My sister went to see her. Can’t remember if Prince Charles was with her.
opiejeanne
@Aussie Sheila: Biden can beat Trump. I’m not sure Warren can. Warren can continue to do a lot of good in the Senate, like she’s been doing since she was elected.
Bernie is a crank and has no coattails.
opiejeanne
@Aussie Sheila: And we can’t spend all of our time wringing our hands over the offing RW and what monsters they are because it is depressing.
Next you’ll criticize us for having a garden post on Sundays.
montanareddog
As a matter of constitutional principle, a monarchy is pretty much an indefensible institution.
Yet, pragmatically, constitutional monarchy seems to work: do the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Spain, Japan, Luxembourg produce noticeably worse heads of state than their republican peers?
Aussie Sheila
Garden posts on Sundays are great! Posts about third order grandchildren of a monarch in a country none of you lives in, and which have no f ‘ ing effects on your creaking constitutional arrangements, seems, er, feckless.
@opiejeanne:
Sloane Ranger
The Royal family was already slimming down. Princess Anne refused titles for her 1st husband ensuring her children would be plain Mr Peter and Miss Zara Phillips (Mrs Tinsdall), while Prince Edward did not insist on right to have his children designated Prince and Princess and, while both Anne and Edward both undertake royal duties, Anne’s children do not and there is no indication that Edward wants his to.
Prince Charles initiative was aimed solely at Prince Andrew and his daughters who Andrew was trying to get on the payroll despite neither of them displaying any public service ethos whatsoever.
I agree with Aussie Sheila. This is a family issue, not a constitutional crisis but, because of this particular family’s position, it throws up some practical questions. Security has already been touched on but there are others. Harry says they want to be financially independent and that is to be respected but they can’t do anything that undermines the family “brand”. So Meghan might be able to return to work as an actress but will need to be careful about the roles she takes on. Likewise tell all interviews or any activity that might damage the Royal family’s image are out (we have Andrew for that anyway). Ground rules need to be agreed and this will take time.
BTW, there shouldn’t be any problem with Harry using his title in Canada as he is not “foreign royalty “. The Queen is the Queen of Canada and his father and brother both future Kings of same.
Emma from FL
@Aussie Sheila: Shall we spend time discussing how easily your country turned right-wing, how your left-wing politicians seem to have their heads firmly jammed into corporate asses, and what little hope these developments offer to anyone wanting to have a functional constitutional democracy?
Nah.
Sloane Ranger
@montanareddog: This.
daveNYC
How is this remotely relevant?
Anne Laurie
@Aussie Sheila: In my defense, BJ posts after midnight, East Coast time, are pretty much ‘wasted’ — very few people read them, even the next day (too much important breaking news). But as the semi-official night shift moderator, I like to give the other (perceived) night owls, many of them on our left coast or outside the U.S., a fresh thread sometimes.
@daveNYC: I picked up some bad habits back in the late 1990s, including a reflexive cringe about ‘sensitive’ topics even on what should’ve been non-related message boards.
Aussie Sheila
Well sure. Let’s have a post dedicated to it. The 2019 Australian federal election was not an example of a country turning right wing. It was an example of what happens when a centreleft party elects a leader (Shorten) that the rank and and file rejected, but the parliamentary party preferred. 70% of the rank and file voted for Shorten’s opponent . Unfortunately the rules stipulated that the PLP had the overwhelming voting weight, and the wisdom of the rank and file was out voted by the ‘savvy’ insiders.
It turned out great! Not.
It was clear that Shorten’s untrustworthiness was the main factor that lost the 2019 election for the ALP. Look it up.
The take away, if that is possible, is that so called ‘savvy’ insiders, should not substitute their own priors for a raw version of what party stalwarts and real activists understand. However, I understand that in the US party discipline is next to non existent and that selecting a presidential candidate is a lot more fraught. Let me assure you, however bad it is here, ( and it is), no one would ever put up with the way working people are treated in the US, and no one, ever, would cop the way the centre left in the US has been content to let the right wing f over the right to vote and the right to have every ballot properly and honestly accounted for.
While I am not a ‘process over all ‘ stickler, the more I read and learn, the more I am shocked at the unbelievably anti democratic nature of US election processes and the unbelievably blithe way those issues are dismissed when the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin when centre left candidates lose. FWIW, the conservative parties in this country, while very bad, are probably half way between Biden and Bloomberg ideologically, and both of those f wits have been plausibly put forward as opponents of tRump. On this blog, g.. help us. And the whole world.
Until now, (I am well into my sixties), I had not fully understood how pernicious the US approach to democracy really is. I am a left winger where I live, and I still retain the ability to be gobsmacked at how feckless the US left and centre left is. You can’t even stop a traditional enemy from Rat f….ing your own elections. What a cluster.
@Emma from FL:
MomSense
@Kent:
I agree it’s terrible, but if they started comparing the treatment of Kate before she married into the family and for the first year after the contrast wouldn’t be very stark at all. Her family was really running a massive cocaine operation instead of their party business. Kate was simultaneously lazy and also conniving. “Waity Katie” doing all she could do manipulate William to choose her as a commoner. They stalked her, got photos of her topless sunbathing as more evidence of her low class hussy ways, etc. If she had gotten pregnant so soon into her marriage, she probably would have gotten similar nastiness.
I don’t think William counseling Harry to wait was a bad idea at all. Kate had royal staffers preparing her for a couple years before they got married. That was very smart.
Harry has always had a boneheaded side – like wearing full NAZI regalia to a party.
bjacques
In NL, the king, once best described as “amiable blockhead”, has graduated to “mostly harmless. People have mostly forgotten that his Argentine missus is the daughter of Videla’s Agriculture Minister (Motto: Hay campesinos, hay problemo; no hay campesinos, no hay problems). There’s another prince who’s looking more and more like Bernhard every day and owns 247 houses in a country with a chronic housing shortage.
Other than that, the Dutch royal family don’t much affect anyone’s life. I think they bring in some tourist euros, mostly domestic.
Rusty
@Anne Laurie: As an east coast insomniac, I appreciate the late posts. I also think this post can stand on its own, the discussion of the racist treatment by the press is a good topic. Having lived 4 years in the UK I will say there is one advantage to a constitutional monarchy, you can detest the current government but still have warm feelings toward your country through the monarch. In the US, detesting the government (particularly at times of conflict) is cast by the opposition as unpatriotic.
Robert Sneddon
@Emma from FL: It’s also worth pointing out the revenues from the Royal possessions like land go straight to the Government in lieu of taxes, a deal negotiated with Liz a while back.
The Civil List payments cover the costs of protocol and State events where specific Royals (I think about eight or so “senior” Royals) glad-hand visiting dignitaries and represent the country abroad, open important projects, launch ships etc. It’s a bit like the US government covering the cost of maintaining the White House, Camp David, the Air Force One planes, the Beast(s) etc. as well as paying the Prez a six-figure salary.
Just One More Canuck
@mrmoshpotato: by Grabthar’s Hammer, what a savings
germy
jayjaybear
They’d be happy to see her leave. They’re just mad that she’s taking Harry with her.
frosty
Barbara
@Aussie Sheila: We are perhaps more interested in the racial inequality aspects of how Meghan Markle is treated, having seen a similar dynamic play out with our own non-white president.
Another Scott
@Aussie Sheila: Thanks.
Post more often!
Fingers crossed for rain, and for more sensible leadership (everywhere).
Cheers,
Scott.
Mo MacArbie
Ooooooh, Markle
I’m never ever ever ever ever gonna let you go
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@daveNYC: Thank you, commenting on a dead woman’s mental health seems unnecessary and a bit shaming of those with mental health issues.
chopper
@opiejeanne:
HOW CAN YOU GROW FLOWERS AT A TIME LIKE THIS?
Omnes Omnibus
@Aussie Sheila: Oh, just fuck off. People have varied interests.
Barbara
@MomSense: Some of the examples (e.g., the “fashionista” label being a compliment for Kate and a derogatory, snide epithet for Meghan) are literally weeks apart. So yeah, no.
As for whether the monarchy makes sense, all I can say is that I won’t watch anything on PBS or otherwise that focuses on hereditary royalty after 1800, maybe excepting Russia, where things went a little more slowly. They aren’t that interesting. I think of the royal family as the country’s “house” celebrities, like restaurants have house wines. But in the end, it’s not my country and I don’t get wound up about it.
Annie
What’s the basis for saying “Charles is unlikely to ever achieve the role he’s waited for?” Are you expecting him to die before Queen Elizabeth does? That’s the only way he would not become King.
And Harry may hate the tabloids but no matter where he and Meghan live, they will write whatever they want to write. And making their announcement in this way guarantees maximum tabloid hysteria.
Also — the monarchy is not just entertainment.
Having a monarchy means that Britain has someone who symbolizes the nation, that people can feel loyal to, while criticizing the government as much as they want. That separation of the head of government from the head of state also means people don’t feel totally betrayed if a prime minister they despise is elected (unlike my own situation during the presidencies of Ronald Reagan, George Bush the Lesser, and the current incumbent.)
A monarchy also keeps people in touch with history and traditions. And a lot of people seem to need that. I’m sure advanced intellectuals like the people who post here are way too evolved for this, but a lot of people are very frightened by change. A monarchy is a visible, always-available reminder that while a lot of things have changed, everything has not changed.
Annie
@Aussie Sheila:
Aussie Sheila, we don’t need lectures from you about political issues. I think most of the people on this board are very aware and active about political questions. I know I am; I’ve been politically involved since I was stuffing envelopes for Eugene McCarthy in 1968 when I was 12. I also have other things I’m interested in and want to read about. It also helps sometimes to take a break from political stuff, at least for a few minutes.
And if you don’t care about this issue, why are you reading the post and replying?
Betsy
@Msb: Charles is pushing that because all the money rests with the heir. Extreme primogeniture in the royal family means that all the cousins and niecelings and such are wholly dependent for their allowances on the person in the direct line of succession. That’s Charles. That’s why he wants to “streamline” the Fam. He and his heir will have more.
Not it that I would mourn the casting-off of such useless ghouls as Beatrice and Eugenie, Andrew et al.
Betsy
@Betsy: And just to add, the reason Harry doesn’t have to whinge at Charles for money, and can just “up and leave” — is that Diana was savvy enough to wrest her entire divorce settlement away from the crown in cold hard cash and in her own hands which she put in trust for her boys. No allowances, no annuities, no dependency, no begging. Unlike everyone else in the Fam (beyond the heir). May her soul rest in peace