On the one hand, it's 2020, Trump is President and the Democratic Party is super focused on defeating him – candidates that have attacked others haven't fared well.
There is no other hand. https://t.co/7iLcr1xxnu
— Neera Tanden (@neeratanden) January 13, 2020
Warren is an unelectable whore! Biden is an elderly racist! Buttigieg is a larval robot! Sure, it’s crunch time in Iowa, but I had been expecting this kind of noisy media-friendly shite-flinging from the Sanders campaign ever since a certain AP article appeared last week — “Shadow group provides Sanders super PAC support he scorns”:
Bernie Sanders says he doesn’t want a super PAC. Instead, he has Our Revolution, a nonprofit political organization he founded that functions much the same as one.
Like a super PAC, which is shorthand for super political action committee, Our Revolution can raise unlimited sums from wealthy patrons that dwarf the limits faced by candidates and conventional PACs. Unlike a super PAC, however, the group doesn’t have to disclose its donors — a stream of revenue commonly referred to as “dark money.”
Now, with less than one month to go before the Iowa caucuses, Our Revolution appears to be skirting campaign finance law, which forbids groups founded by federal candidates and officeholders from using large donations to finance federal election activity, including Sanders’ 2020 bid.…
…[W]hile Warren has come under fire for courting wealthy financiers in her past Senate campaigns, Sanders and Our Revolution have largely avoided scrutiny during the primary, even as he has accelerated his criticism of others, among them Biden, for relying on super PACs founded by their allies.
In the case of Our Revolution, which aims to boost voter turnout for Sanders, the Vermont senator was the founder…
The campaign finance act says groups “directly or indirectly established” by federal officeholders or candidates can’t “solicit, receive, direct, transfer, or spend funds” for federal electoral activity that exceeds the “limitations, prohibitions, and reporting requirements” of the law. Those limits are currently set at $2,800 for candidates and $5,000 for political action committees.
Our Revolution has taken in nearly $1 million from donors who gave more than the limits and whose identities it hasn’t fully disclosed, according to tax filings for 2016, 2017 and 2018. Much of it came from those who contributed six-figure sums.
It won’t have to publicly reveal its 2019 fundraising until after this year’s presidential election. And money it raises between now and then won’t have to be disclosed until the following year…
Read the whole thing. I’d been waiting to see how much this story would be amplified outside sources like the Daily Caller, or whether the Sanders campaign would mount a defense. But that defense, as ever with St. Bernie, turns out to be “I HAVE NO FLAWS, unlike every other Democratic candidate!”
So, no, I don’t expect to hear Word One about this during tomorrow’s debate — the other candidates can’t afford to waste resources fighting a million bad-faith assaults on their staff and volunteers from the Bernie mob, and the media has no interest in damping down such an ‘exciting’ candidate. They’re saving their ammo until, in Chris Cillizza’s dreams, it’s a two-army battle between the Oval Office Occupant and his mirror-world doppelganger. And as long as he can keep squirreling away money for his ongoing, never-ending national campaign (and his fourth house), Sanders is perfectly happy to take advantage.
Baud
The Pie filter will be getting a workout today!
Freemark
If I was one of the other candidates I would definitely use this whenever he bring up his ‘not taking money from big donors’.
catclub
I have nothing to say on Sanders. I find the large opinion piece that Bloomberg will be our guy, come super Tuesday, interesting. Bloomberg could tear down Trump much better in GOP primaries, but he is not doing that, even though he is a Republican. A centrist Republican who reined in the craziness of the present GOP would be extremely useful to the nation – but by no means a fix. Bloomberg appeals to the ‘centrist austerity debt scolds’, who never seem to oppose tax cuts that boost the debt. The population of those people is Bowles, Simpson, and their wealthy fans. Not exactly a winning coalition.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Baud:
I preëmptively pied myself!
David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch
Ryan Lizza dug up a mind-boggling and telling interview from Wilmer’s 1974 campaign for governor:
According to the 1970 census, there were 38,353 white people in Burlington and only 148 blacks. Yet he didn’t support integrating this tiny number of children into the white school system. (photo)
Why does he have such enmity towards POC?
MJS
Why was it apparently impossible for the DNC to say, on November 9, 2016, “Going forward, if you are going to run in Democratic presidential primaries, you will be a member in good standing of the Democratic party.” That this bullshit is generated by someone who isn’t even a Democrat is infuriating.
patrick II
@MJS:
Fear of a thrid party candidacy from Bernie.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@catclub:
Bloomberg seems to have an appeal for some reason, at least with some folks. My parents like him for some reason from seeing his commercials on TV. Nice White Man in a Suit probably explains it, though my parents are Dems who hate Trump. They’re busy with work and don’t pay much attention, and are a tad on the conservative side I guess.
I’d much prefer Biden to Cola Ban Bloomberg if I had to choose between them
wjs
It sure seems like the Democratic Party is intent on letting Republicans decide who will be their nominee.
Kent
@patrick II: This. We would have zero chance of beating Trump if Sanders pulled a Ralph Nader or Jill Stein.
Chyron HR
@wjs:
You seem to be a little confused–“Let Republicans vote in the Democratic primary” is literally the official position of Bernie Sanders and His Revolution.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack (phone): You’ll miss your brilliant comments.
chris
Just gonna leave this here before it gets lost. Michael McCain is a member of a Canadian dynasty and certainly richer than Tump and he’s pissed. I hope more of his class join him. Short thread:
Fair Economist
The Sanders campaign is calling Biden an elderly racist? Now *that’s* ironic.
Matt McIrvin
@catclub: Bloomberg isn’t even the front-runner among vanity billionaires in this primary.
patrick II
Ralph Nader’s giant ego only screwed us once. Bernie seems to be going for two.
Steeplejack (phone)
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
“Brilliant”? I think I see the problem here.
Baud
@patrick II: Three.
Baud
@Steeplejack (phone):
Excellent umlaut.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Baud:
That’s just science.
Kent
Nader ran in 1972, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008.
He might have only actually screwed us once, but it wasn’t for lack of trying.
MJS
@Kent: Then we are well and truly screwed, because he’s probably not going to win the nomination, he’ll claim (again), that he was cheated, and then he’ll half-ass any messages to his supporters that they must vote for the nominee.
(I’m not as despondent as this post would imply, but I’ve had it with fucking narcissists having so much power.)
karen marie
@MJS: Actually, I recently read somewhere (damned if I know where but it was a “legitimate” news source) that the DNC enacted a rule change that required Sanders to sign a pledge that he was running as a Democrat and would president as a Democrat in order to participate in the Dem primary this time around. He is, however, running simultaneously as an independent for reelection to his senate seat.
This is my opportunity to go on record – fuck Bernie Sanders, with prejudice.
Jeffro
Give me a break.
I don’t like Sanders one bit, but um, IT’S A PRIMARY.
Iowa’s in just a few weeks, right? The candidates have to do something, and soon…despite all the dropping out, it’s still a 4- or 5-way shitshow.
Just beat him on the merits and get it over with, Dems.
chopper
@Baud:
if i started a metal band we’d be Thë Ümläüts.
Kent
@MJS: I find a lot of things to be despondent about. Like all my MAGA relatives in PA, MI, and IN who used to seem like reasonable well-meaning rural folk and are now rabid evangelical Trump followers who seem to have lost all ability for rational thought. I don’t know where it all ends. But giving up is not an option.
patrick II
I have been under the impression that Bloomberg isn’t in this to win, but to put forward an argument for moderation in the Democratic party, and more importantly, to defeat Trump. People see his antipathy towards Trump as entirely personal, but I don’t know that he hates Trump any more than many people here. I think he is a smart guy who earned his money the way you are supposed to, by adding value, and sees Trump as the danger to the country he is.
I may be entirely wrong about the not in it to win it though, he has enough money to come up with a unpredictable strategy (to me at least) not available to other Candidates.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Baud
@Jeffro:
People are especially on edge because it’s crunch time, and because few of us here like the way this long primary has gone so far.
patrick II
@Kent:
point taken.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick II: I like that notion, and I was pleasantly surprised he said he’ll spend big no matter who the nominee is, the ads he’s running make it seem like he wants to win.
I still have a hard time imagining him as the Dem nominee, especially if somebody gets into his past– his endorsement of not just the Iraq War but Bush in 04, his imperialistic tendencies as mayor, stop-and-frisk, etc. Maybe he does raise the likelihood of a brokered campaign, and that’s his super secret genius plan to stop Warren.
On the plus side, I think it’s Fred Armisen who does a hilarious Bloomberg.
Kent
@patrick II: If you are 77 years old and worth $58 billion dollars, what the fuck else do you have to do other than drop a couple hundred million on vanity campaigns? He already has 13 houses around the world and every thing else money can buy.
debbie
Obama had a “vicious oppo shop”? I don’t recall that; I do recall the campaign’s speedy and agile responses to every piece of crap thrown at them. Is the tweeter up top a BS supporter (her bio doesn’t say)?
Baud
@Kent:
If there’s one thing I’d change about my campaign, it would be my personal wealth.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: does he have a sled?
MJS
@Kent: Very true, and when I get too down, I comfort myself with thoughts of: November, 2018; elections in Kentucky and Louisiana; and polls showing a majority wanting Trump removed from office. I actually think overall this shit is going in the right direction, but also recognize that there is no margin for error.
patrick II
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I don’t know how blatantly Republicans can spit in the face of American voters and not expect reprecursions at the voting booth.
On the other hand an actual impeachment trial would probably be worse . So, in times of duress, the rule seems to be always go with the most corrupt option.
Jeffro
@Baud: I hear you (and them) but Sanders has a high floor/low ceiling, and none of the remaining candidates need to overdo or overthink this.
For most of us, our dream candidates are gone, and it is indeed crunch time. But the last person that the vast majority of Dems are going to rally around is an opposite-of-woke, pro-NRA, waaaay old, cranky, deeeep oppo file, avowed socialist of questionable health*.
*no charge, Joe and Elizabeth! ;)
ruemara
I have no doubts Sanders told her he didn’t think America wanted a woman president. I also wonder what else they discussed. I don’t know who didn’t know about the range of dark money PACS some of our fave woker than thou types are using to funnel money to their campaigns. I also wonder how many people know that some of the million unique donor numbers come from people literally donate a dollar at a time in one day to make the unique donation numbers happen. There’s a lot of ratfuckery underway from the “left” and it just cements my distrust of them.
@patrick II: Have the American voters ever held them accountable, or have they blamed Dems for Republicans from since before I was born to now?
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
Goshdarnit, every time I go to comment on a thread, I find out after the fact it’s dead. I bet if you checked over the last 10 years I’m the last person to comment on most of the frickin posts. Ok, rant over.
Sanders has not received even a portion of the scrutiny that the other candidates have, particularly the female candidates. It would be nice if the 4th Estate……ummmm….screw it….I’m so sick of kicking that dead horse. I’m despondent AND cynical and Iowa hasn’t even happened yet. Somebody talk me off the ledge?
Baud
@Jeffro:
The Sanders ceiling is a good theory but it is just a theory.
zhena gogolia
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
I don’t know what to say! BJ has been depressing the last few days. But I think we’re just stewing in our own juices.
Kent
@debbie: I’m sure they had all their bases covered. But I also don’t really recall the Obama campaign pulling out a lot of old dirt on Clinton, McCain, or Romney. Maybe they did all the deep research and just didn’t really find much of interest on those three compared to what should be the target-rich environment of Trump.
Steeplejack (phone)
Off topic: I’m about to motor out to Micro Center in search of a UPS. Any suggestions? The ones I’ve checked on line have too many of the sockets too close together, as if everything these days doesn’t come with a bulky plug.
Jeffro
@Baud: Only in the sense that, if it comes down to trumpov vs Sanders, most Dems will vote Sanders. I will, but that’s the extent of my support. Whereas the others will get more of my time and money and door-knocking, etc etc.
He ran last time and lost. He’s a known quantity – he’s quite clear what he stands for. And yet, he keeps topping out at 20-25% of most D polls. If everyone was nuts for this guy, we’d see it (in at least one state). But they’re not.
Hard to see Buttigieg supporters going for the Bern…and I can see Warren’s supporters, should she drop out, going 50/50 for Biden and Sanders. That’s a low ceiling.
Kent
@Baud: Trump was supposed to have a ceiling too, in the 2016 primary. Until he didn’t.
“In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is” (either Einstein or Yogi Berra. I forgot which)
Baud
@Jeffro:
I’m sure he’s higher in Vermont.
debbie
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Nope. There are a few of us in contention for that title.
Yutsano
@Baud: Vermont and New Hampshire maybe. Unfortunately that won’t get him the nomination, let alone election.
Baud
@Kent:
Someone said the other day that Trump was always the front runner after his announcement. I haven’t confirmed.
IIRC, Trump did not win a majority of GOP votes on the primary. Just a plurality.
Anne Laurie
@debbie: Neera Tanden, whose name is at the top of the tweet, worked closely with President Obama. The idiot she’s responding to, Sam Stein in the quoted tweet inside Neera’s tweet, is a ‘reporter’ who’s a Sanders supporter. Since you’re only allowed a certain number of characters in a tweet, Tanden went for the larger point — it’s not about relitigating what someone *thinks* happened in 2008, it’s about defeating Trump in 2020 by choosing the best possible Democratic candidate.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
No, it’s J R in WV, hands down.
VOR
@catclub: It isn’t clear Bloomberg could even get on the ballot in the Republican primaries. The GOP state bodies, who control the ballots in their state, are refusing to list anyone but Trump. There was a court ruling in Minnesota last week, of a case seeking ballot access by a non-Trump Republican candidate, where the court ruled the Minnesota GOP really did have the right to exclude anyone but Trump from their ballot. Others can do write-in.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
Only since July 2018.
eddie blake
@Kent:
iirc, dolt 45 was leading in every poll pretty much as soon as he entered the primary
eta- what baud said.
Biff Longbotham
I like Bernie, Biden, and Warren for different reasons, and in some cases for the same reasons. Without question or quibble would I prefer ANY of them over the doofus we have now. I just wish we could get away from this gerontocracy we seem to be stuck with.
debbie
@Anne Laurie:
Thanks. I knew I knew that name and didn’t read carefully enough.
patrick II
@Kent:
I don’t think it’s entirely a vanity project. I actually think he is a decent guy, as old billionaires go, and has some idea of doing some good. His idea of good may be somewhat different than mine, but I only marginally questions his intentions.
Chyron HR
@Kent:
The Republicans made their primaries winner-take-all in 2016 which let Trump sew it up with a narrow plurality in several states.
Anne Laurie
There are no GOP primaries worth discussing, this year. The RNCC has officially cancelled a bunch of them already, and the remaining ones will be treated as the sideshows they are.
And Bloomberg isn’t really a ‘Republican’, he’s a technocrat. Since he’s all about utility, he’s probably best described as one of the few true Independents, someone who pick’n’mixes proposals and casts his ballot / stakes his candidacy on the platform he finds most practical at any given moment.
At this particular moment, he’s already skirting the ‘too old’ question, and he’s got fifty billion to throw away. Not to mention, he really despises Donald Trump. As long as Bloomberg fulfills his promise to keep paying Democratic political workers through November to keep hammering on Trump, I say he’s a net positive for us.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’d like it noted that I have not taken the bait and posted about Bernie in this thread. Yet. But…
This was a de-escalatory retaliatory anonymous leak. By Sirota? Nina Turner? Comic Book Guy? the people he surrounds himself with is one more tell.
SFAW
@eddie blake:
I think each of the RWMF Rethugs that was running had their place in the spotlight (poll-wise) for a brief period. I think Trump did not win any primaries until late in the game.
But, then again, I’m lucky if I can remember my own name, some days. And I’m too damn lazy to look it up.
ETA: So I looked it up, and wasn’t completely effing worng, but close to it. Thanks, Obama!
Topclimber
@Baud: And Republicans have many more winner take all primaries than fo Dems…who have maybe none? So plurality becomes majority for GOP except when they are in power
Butter Emails
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Umm. The Democratic frontrunner is some guy named Joe not Bernie.
J R in WV
@Baud:
But the actual primary hasn’t even started yet, right?!!
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack (phone):
I use really short extension cords.
BruceFromOhio
Did it publicly reveal its 2015-2016 fundraising? Asking for a friend.
ALSO: Voting for the fucking democrat in November, it’s that easy. (h/t Thin Black Duke)
Immanentize
@debbie: Yeah, this. I read that first tweet and my first thought was. Huh?! I don’t remember that and I was paying close attention during the Clinton/Obama race war. Only kidding!
But not entirely!
It was a rough nine months. I was for Obama, my wife was for Hillary. 😊. Wow! I’m nostalgic for that dispute!
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@debbie: @Steeplejack (phone): Well that does make me feel better. :)
@zhena gogolia: This is one of the few blogs I frequent anymore. I used to read quite a few every day. Maybe a “news holiday” is what I need.
MomSense
@Butter Emails:
The last polls I saw Biden up over Sanders and Warren in Iowa and NH. Up 6 in Iowa and 4 in NH.
Mason Dixon hasn’t updated VA or FL since the end of December, but Buttigieg, Sanders and Warren all lose to Trump. Biden is the only one who beats him.
J R in WV
@Steeplejack (phone):
Thank you, thank you very much! This happens to me, somehow, I don’t know why. I guess I just open several threads and comment until I’m done. But I am glad someone noticed my persistence!!
Baud
@J R in WV:
The voting part hasn’t started, but the pre-voting part is important. That’s why Harris is no longer in it.
BruceFromOhio
@Anne Laurie:
Ran into a couple of dudebro’s at work where the convo turned unexpectedly to the election. Both were unabashed in their love for Mr. Bloomberg. It was oddly refreshing. Can’t count on them for the general, but at least they were clear that the dumpster fire’s gotta go.
MomSense
@debbie:
He did have a vicious oppo shop, because he was a champion who understood that you have to win first. It doesn’t matter how great your plans are if you don’t get the chance.
zhena gogolia
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
I only read BJ as a blog, but I have about 20 people whose tweets I read every day. It will drive you crazy.
J R in WV
@Baud:
Well, you’re right. I / we supported Senator Harris at first, and after she quit the presidential race we contributed to Senator Warren. Still, so far!
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
FWIW, there are a lot of “reformed” Ron Paul acolytes among the ranks of the “left,” and a LOT of them live for those kinds of barely legal shenanigans. Rules lawyers to a man, they are.
BruceFromOhio
Cats in a handbag, I thought you were talking about THIS guy. Then I went in waded in the twatter shitpile, and his feed is def troll droppings. He was HuffPo till the layoffs in ’17, squirmed his way under the Daily Beast bridge. The next year’s model of Chris Cillizza, perhaps? Ick, now I need some bourbon to cleanse with.
Steeplejack (phone)
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Genius! Thanks for that tip. I was wondering if there was such a thing. I was even thinking about getting a power strip with widely spaced sockets to plug into the UPS.
Mnemosyne
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
I think we’ll all feel better once we have some sort of numbers from Iowa and aren’t just drowning in polls and Twitter bullshit.
Wolvesvalley
@Steeplejack (phone): These very short extension cords are how I deal with the crowding problem at the UPS sockets.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“I’m not a
puppetattacker, you’re the attacker, you’re the attacker!Steeplejack (phone)
@Wolvesvalley:
Thanks! You and BillinGlendaleCA are mind-melding.
kindness
My preference would be for our media to understand that Iowa and NH have about 1.5% of the national vote and what their esteemed citizens want doesn’t mean shit as far as what the nation wants. Who the frack cares? Wait till Super Tuesday. Then we’ll know something.
janesays
@MJS: Sure, but how exactly would you define “a Democrat in good standing”?
What exactly would be the specific criteria? Do you have to be a declared Democrat for a certain length of time? And if so, how long?
And what would constitute “good standing”? Who decides what makes someone be in good standing? Or conversely, how would you decide who is NOT in “good standing”?
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but you would need to outline some pretty specific rules for what the criteria are to be considered a “Democrat in good standing”.
BruceFromOhio
@chopper: I thought it was The Pedants.
Immanentize
@MomSense: Actually, that is good to know
Mnemosyne
@MomSense:
IIRC, Obama’s oppo shop was vicious, but scrupulously honest within the rules. It’s just that he was a rules lawyer who got along great with other rules lawyers, so they were always looking for ways to interpret the rules in ways that would help them and hurt their opponents.
janesays
@karen marie: Bernie Sanders is not running simultaneously as an independent for his senate seat while running as a Democrat for the presidency, namely because he’s not running in any capacity for his senate seat in 2020. He just got re-elected in 2018, and isn’t up for re-election again until 2024.
Baud
@MomSense:
2008 was a bare knuckles primary. Hillary doesn’t get enough credit for how she handled a tough loss.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack (phone):
I’d worry if I was Wolvesvalley.
BruceFromOhio
@Baud:
FTFY
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, we knew the rules backwards, forwards, and inside out. Someday I’d love to write about my experience with his campaigns.
janesays
@Baud: Trump took the lead in GOP primary polling in mid-July 2015 (about a month after he announced), and never really looked back. There was a small handful of outlier polls where he came in second (usually a close second), but he had an overall commanding lead in the race almost from the moment he declared. He had the nomination locked up more than six months before a single vote was cast. Establishment GOP media figures were always casting doubt on the reliability of his poll numbers, but it was really never in doubt that he would be the nominee when you look at it in hindsight.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_Republican_Party_presidential_primarie…
geg6
@janesays:
Pretty easy to define it. You are a member of the party, no matter what office you are in or running for. You don’t just call yourself a member once every four years because you want all of that party’s support, financial and manpower, to put you in the White House and, if that doesn’t happen, you still stay a member of the party. Easy fucking peasy.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
OT: So I’m driving to Leo Carrillo to shoot last night and John Stewart’s Gold comes up on my playlist, I was driving over Kanan to the coast.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: Once the actual voting starts, we’ll feel better. The endless waiting is getting to us.
I remind myself that any of our candidates would make a better president than Trump
Baud
@BruceFromOhio:
Funny thing about that. The Reddit community was a Bernie hive in 2016 and is heavily for Bernie in 2020. It was also a big avenue for Russian propaganda in 2016, less obviously so this time around. Anyway, on occasion over the last year, I’ve seen some pro-Hillary threads and commenters. Nothing that would be unusual for BJ, but seeing it there still surprises me. It gives me a tiny bit of hope.
MomSense
@Baud:
She was pretty ruthless. I can tell you from direct experience that she pulled some GOP like voter suppression tactics like robo calling into low income, black precincts and telling them that they should be prepared to pay any outstanding parking tickets or fines. Her campaign sent out incorrect polling locations to college students. I have lots of receipts.
Kent
That’s not my point. There was a very real believe in the GOP that Trump was just leading because all the others were splitting the anti-Trump vote. And that whoever could last and be the final one against Trump would win and move on into the general. Unfortunately for them that turned out to be Ted Cruz.
All I’m saying was that people BELIEVED that Trump had a ceiling. Until it was apparent that he didn’t.
janesays
@Baud: Forgot to reply to the other half of this post: you are correct that Trump didn’t win a majority of the popular vote in the 2016 primaries, but he did win an extremely strong plurality. Four Republican contenders wound up winning more than 10% of the popular vote each, and Trump beat each of them by roughly 20 points or more…
Trump 45%
Cruz 25%
Kasich 14%
Rubio 11%
Mnemosyne
@Kent:
I think the Republicans got outflanked by the Russians, but I repeat myself … 😈
Baud
@MomSense:
Yeah, the association with Mark Penn is a legitimate beef. She was a much better candidate in 2016.
Baud
@janesays: Thanks for looking it up.
Immanentize
@MomSense: What are you waiting for? Now is the moment.
Another Scott
In other news, RollCall:
… gradually, and then suddenly.
Cheers,
Scott.
Immanentize
@MomSense: I have a name for your book.
Kent
@Chyron HR:
Yes, he was leading in all the polls for most of the campaign. But he was also in the 30s or perhaps low 40s for most of that time too. That’s the ceiling everyone in the GOP establishment was talking about at the time. The idea that Trump was at 35-40% tops and everyone else was splitting the 60-65% anti-Trump vote.
I’m just saying that point about Sander’s ceiling rings familiar to anyone who watched the 2016 GOP primary. I’m not counting on some sort of “ceiling” taking out Sanders in the primary. It never works like that. You actually have to BEAT him.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
If you want to transcribe it. By the time I get home from work I just want to crash. Some nights I make myself stay up until 8 because a 730 bedtime screams toddler. The struggle is real!
Chyron HR
@Kent:
He’s in second place at best.
Immanentize
@MomSense: Hmmm, I was gonna say come lie down by me, but that sounds somehow, off.
I am lucky to be awake at 10. And I just signed up to teach 7:30 to 9:30 T/Th this summer. Poor students. Poor Imm!
glory b
@eddie blake: Actually, he took the lead right after he called Mexicans a bunch of criminals.
CliosFanBoy
@Steeplejack (phone): perfectly normal, just do it in private and wash your hands afterwards
janesays
@Chyron HR: Incorrect. Most of the GOP primaries in 2016 awarded their delegates proportionally, though there were a few big ones that were winner-take-all, like California and Florida. New York and Texas were both proportional, however, which is why Kasich picked up 6 delegates in NY (despite Trump winning overall) and Trump picking up 48 delegates in Texas (despite Cruz winning overall).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Results_by_delegates_(hard_total)
Of the 41 (out of 56) contests Trump won, more than 3/4 of them were won by ten points or more, which isn’t really a “narrow” plurality – though indeed most of those were in fact plurality wins.
Baud
@glory b:
I think that was his announcement speech.
Kent
@Chyron HR: Yes. The way things are playing out, Sanders seems mostly likely to take out all the viable non-Biden alternatives leaving us with Biden. But he will be unable to beat Biden once the primary gets serious and masses of non-“woke” centrist Dems and Dems of color start voting.
Another Scott
@Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
Donnie wants to run against Bernie. TheHill:
Cheers,
Scott.
MomSense
@Immanentize:
HA! What in the world has happened??? I used to be a night owl.
CliosFanBoy
@MomSense: There is NO WAY Trump wins Virginia unless there is a 3d party to do a major split of the Democratic vote. .
glory b
@BruceFromOhio: Interesting, my (25 year old African American) daughter and a few of her friends like Bloomberg too.
Then again, have any of you noticed the main theme of hip hop culture?
chris
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: First I was all John Stewart? WTF? Three bars in I was OMG I’m old! Thanks, some good memories attached to that tune.
Freemark
@Steeplejack Multiplug splitter
Helped me quite a bit with my new AmazonBasics ups
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @chris: definitely one of those tunes that sucks me into the wayback machine
Immanentize
@MomSense: me too! I think I just found daylight more attractive. Also, my recovery time from my night owl activities expanded
CaseyL
@CliosFanBoy: …aaand guess who that might be.
West of the Rockies
The good news is that it won’t be Sanders. He won’t run again (because he’ll be in his early to mid 80-s.
I think we’ll end up with Joe and a female VP. I’d be happy with that.
Barbara
@glory b: No. Enlighten me.
West of the Rockies
@glory b:
How cool old white guys are?//
CliosFanBoy
@CaseyL: Nadar??
MomSense
@CliosFanBoy:
Be prepared. The shenanigans will be worse than 2016 and she misread the motivations of the Bernie Stans. The country is not where she is on policy. The psychology of fear and fatigue do not lead to risk taking.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I am genuinely surprised by this
“I thought a woman could win; he disagreed.”
eddie blake
@janesays:
TY for the reminder.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Fascinating.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m listening to O’Bro Jon Favreau’s Wilderness, and the lone trump voter in his PA focus group is saying that she’s a lifelong Democrat, women’s rights and gay rights are her most important issues. But trump has been great on the economy. She’s made money in the stock market. She lost money under other presidents. The stock market tripled under Obama.
As Big Mama Thornton said, I smell a rat.
Princess
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Which parts surprises you, that he said it, or that she made a statement that he said it? In my view, the first seems in character for Bernie and once people started calling Warren a liar, she had to come out and confirm the story.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Princess:
That she so bluntly contradicted him. No hedging, no “memories can differ”. I’m pleasantly surprised. He and his rat-fuckers deserve a counterpunch.
janesays
@Topclimber: 2020 is irrelevant for Republicans since the party is basically rigging it so Trump has to win, but in 2016, most of the delegates were allocated in one of three ways: proportional (17 contests), winner-take-all (17 contests), and winner-take-most (15 contests).
The Democratic primaries and caucuses allocate all of their delegates proportionally, with the only stipulation being that you must win at least 15% of the vote in each contest to be eligible to receive any share of the delegates for that contest.
The Dangerman
So, did Trump do the responsible thing and stay in DC or is he in New Orleans for Clemson/ LSU to be emotionally stroked
ETA: Do Superdome toilets work on the first flush?
Kent
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Heads are going to explode across the Bernie-verse, trying to justify this.
Immanentize
It is weird to me that Bernie saying “a woman can’t win” is even an issue. It’s solid analysis. Almost everyone here has fretted about the same. He is blunt, and in that meeting was trying to dissuade Warren from running. Wouldn’t you have said something like that, if not so crass, to get her support you instead of running?
What’s interesting is the response. Bernie could have said a more favorable-to-him version of what I said above. But he denied it all. Denied it! And now his supporters are forced to attack her as a lier. But bad for Bernie, because it fits his personal style and history and I think most people, not cultified, will just say, “sure, so what?”. But his lie is worse. And whoever leaked this (Warren people?) jnew he would handle it very badly.
West of the Rockies
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
EW knows how to shiv a fool.
Baud
@Immanentize:
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@chris: John Stewart also wrote Daydream Believer.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There were an unfortunate number of white Obama voters who were seduced by Trump’s white supremacy. As many Black people can tell you, it’s pretty common to run into white women who are all in favor of women’s rights and LGBTQ rights for white people, not so much for everyone else.
Basically, she’s a racist but tries to pretend to herself that she isn’t.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: I this why “I trust Bernie” is trending? Specifically this?
Barbara
@Baud: Thanks for being so succinct. Yes.
Steeplejack
@Freemark:
Thanks. Going in the suggestion box with BillinGlendaleCA and Wolvesvalley.
Immanentize
@Baud: Oh, I agree, but it’s not a stupid thing to say in context of Trump and 2020. You yourself have wondered as much, haven’t you? Or is misogyny not a real thing? I think — believe to a certainty — that a woman can win, but I may be in the minority on that one.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman:
Yes, they’re not in California.
Elizabelle
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I never knew the lyrics to the John Stewart song “Gold”, but do recognize Stevie Nicks as backup singer. Hadn’t heard that song in years; it’s a good one.
Apparently a lot of other people don’t know the lyrics either.
Driving novocated
Diving on my cannon …
I’d never heard of Kanan. Now I know. And driving that road goes on the 1-2 year bucket list.
Kent
OMG….Trump is on my TV. Melania looks unhappy as hell. Like she is passing a kidney stone. Like always I guess.
The Dangerman
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
I wonder how loud Trump would be booed if he showed up at the Rose Bowl? Best not test it, kinda close to the San Andreas fault to risk it.
I see the fucker is there. What a dick (no, Donald, I do NOT mean it that way).
Baud
@Immanentize:
It’s a legitimate concern. But I don’t care what takes him down, if this does.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Glad to see you.
David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch
Oh shit, it’s Dump and his Escort is wearing a leather Gestapo outfit
I think I’m gonna throw up.
Fucker has to ruin everything, even college football
Barbara
@Barbara: And just to add, I have a hard time expressing how angry it makes me to see a man banking on the generosity and goodness of a woman to get ahead of her.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent:
She never thought he’d live this long.
piratedan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Elizabelle: Kanan Road was built in the early 70’s* and was rather new when Stewart wrote the song. It goes from the 101 to PCH at Point Dume. Photos from along side of Kanan of flowers have been featured on this here blog’s OTR last year.
*I used to use Kanan Road to get to Zuma beach when I was a teen, so I thought it was older. It must have just opened.
glory b
@West of the Rockies: No, money!!!
Elizabelle
@Baud: Good evening.
West of the Rockies
OT, but as a Dodgers fan, F#$* the damn Astros.
janesays
@kindness: If only it were so simple. The problem is that these elections don’t occur in a vacuum – what happens in Iowa and New Hampshire will almost certainly have a direct impact on what happens on Super Tuesday. If a candidate does poorly in those first two states (third place or worse finishes in both contests), they’re finished.
The only person in the last 40 years to lose both Iowa and New Hampshire and still win the nomination is Bill Clinton in 1992. And he was only able to pull it off because he had a very strong and unexpected second-place finish in New Hampshire. The dynamics of that race were also impacted by the fact that one of the leading contenders at the start of the primaries was a U.S. senator from Iowa (Harkin), who everybody knew was going to win that contest in a landslide (he won 76% of the vote in that state). New Hampshire didn’t have a home-stater on the ballot that year, but they had the next closest thing – Paul Tsongas of Massachusetts. With the exception 1992, the winner of every Democratic presidential nomination since 1980 has always won either Iowa or New Hampshire (and sometimes both).
For both Sanders and Warren, New Hampshire is especially critical. They obviously both can’t win it, but neither one of them can afford to finish in third place in that state, or they’re almost certainly finished.
I’ve never been less sure about who would win a Democratic nomination than I am this year. I could honestly see Biden, Warren, or Sanders pulling it off. I think Mayor Pete has a small shot, but only if he crushes it in the first two states. Klobuchar might be a dark horse, but only if she wins Iowa. Bloomberg is an anomaly, and his strategy of ignoring the first four contests entirely and putting all of his energy into Super Tuesday has no track record of working, but there’s never been somebody with a billion dollars to blow who has tried it before.
If I had to guess right now, I would say that our nominee is almost certainly going to be a white person from the Northeast who will be over 70 years old on Election Day. That’s as close as I can get at the moment.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman: I may be headed to the Rose Bowl tonight in attempt to shoot star trails, depends on how clear it is. Skies kinda looking murky right now.
David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch
@The Dangerman: Imagine how loud he would be booed a basketball game. We already know how bitterly unpopular he is at baseball and UFC events.
The Dangerman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Well, she could consider taking one for the team and try to fuck him to death.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@West of the Rockies: Agreed, cheaters.
Immanentize
@piratedan: We don’t need to wait! The supporters are saying she is a Pocahontas lier. Lying lier would lies about everything. Except that she was definitely a Republican.
Sadly, I read some comments.
Kent
@Baud: There are concerns about every potential 2020 opponent: too gay, too old, too socialist, too gaff-prone, too female, too rich, too young, too moderate, too black, too white, etc. etc.
That doesn’t mean they are actually legitimate concerns. I don’t think any of us really knows who is most electable. That road leads to candidates like Kerry, McCain, and Romney who all had the perfect resumes compared to their opponents.
Josie
@The Dangerman:
Okay, you made me laugh.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
karen marie
@janesays: From March 2019 – found it:
Further, in the same article:
James E Powell
@Baud:
I’d offer this in support of the Sanders ceiling theory. He was the runner-up in 2016 and has been more or less campaigning ever since. The press/media have never taken after him or exposed his negatives the way they have for most others. He has a core of devoted – some say fanatical – supporters who have been with him for years now. And yet he can’t get separation from the others. He should have been the prohibitive choice this cycle, but that’s Biden’s spot.
From that I am inferring that Sanders has a limited appeal.
Kent
@The Dangerman: I mean she feeds him nothing but cheeseburgers, cokes, and ice cream. And makes sure he gets zero exercise. What else is it going to take?
Another Scott
@karen marie: But, but, Bernie is special. Rules don’t apply to him.
HTH!!11
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
PaulWartenberg
I am watching on the sidelines of the Sanders – Warren rift getting nastier by the minute, and all I can think of is the running gag in Life Of Brian about the fcking factions fighting each other instead of the real enemy (the goddamned GOP greedheads).
Splitters.
karen marie
@Another Scott: He’s a fucking asshole. I cannot wait for this to be over so I never have to hear about him again.
Baud
ESPN streaming is shitting the bed.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
Politics over the last, well 20, OK 50 yrs has been depressing. Sometimes even from our own side. OK often from our side as well. The repubs have seen that any discontent leads to that and has honed both the message and the participants to follow the protocol so that they seem united. Here we are arguing about our own candidates as if some of them are actual opposition to our goals. Oh wait some of them are! The democratic party is a big political swap meet, where you hunt and shop for the candidate that comes closest to your ideal and then rag on everyone else as if they are the worst humans in history, even as some of them may be. Edwards, that guy in was it NY with the dick pics, Wilmer…..Meanwhile repubs elect trump? OK they got help cheating but still, he is president. I’m just at a loss though to see why some candidates on our side are still in the running while good candidates had to drop out well before the first primary.
I think some of this is our electoral system, primaries spread over months? Why not on the same day? The election is, why do people think that spreading it out makes it better? Caucuses and actual voting, no national holidays for voting, many states not really having absentee voting and early voting, say 30 days out. Some states make it particularly difficult to vote. We do it this way because it makes voting less valuable. And it’s not just red states. When I moved to northern CA I had a hard time registering. I went to the County Registrar and asked why. Got some BS story and asked how did someone with out any address vote. I was immediately registered. If a person does not or can not take the time and advocate for themselves often they don’t get to vote. And often it’s far worse than CA. And 15 yrs later it is better than it used to be in CA. We go through this time and time again because mostly the opposition can’t win without cheating.
We have for too long sort of sat on our hands about this, thinking that a great democracy would withstand the problems. Well it won’t. It’s a constant struggle to keep a democracy above board and working because some will make a lot of money off of it not working. Take Wilmer’s non super pac – super pac.
Another Scott
@karen marie: His son will probably try to pick up the mantle. Gotta keep trying, for the family, you know?
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
rikyrah
@Kent:
Bullshyt. He is too phucking lady to do a real independent campaign. Takes a lot of work to get on the ballot in all fifty states
janesays
@The Dangerman: Aaaaaaaannd, I just threw up in my mouth a little after thinking about that comment.
Kent
@Baud: What did I miss? I’m watching out of one eye while helping my daughter with her homework. But I guess I’m watching regular cable, not streaming.
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I Hope she stands as firm and enthusiastically on this truth as she does on all of her plans.
Baud
@Kent:
I’m finally on. No score.
joel hanes
@janesays:
Bernie Sanders is not … running in any capacity for his senate seat …
Sen. Sanders has long since filed to run for re-election in 2024 to his current Vermont Senate seat.
As the Indendent Party candidate.
You could look it up.
PaulWartenberg
@James E Powell:
It’s that he’s campaigning on a full break of our political / economic norms, away from capitalism and towards “democratic socialism”. While it attracts the idealists and far left progressives, what he offers is wholesale change to a majority of Americans who are fearful of such changes.
The difference between Sanders and Warren is that Sanders wants a full-out revolution to build a Utopia while Warren is taking the FDR approach of reforming/fixing things to what people are comfortable with. Even though both essentially want the same thing – an end of unregulated capitalism – Warren wants it regulated and Bernie wants it gone.
And it’s that fear of uncertainty – people can’t tell what “democratic socialism” is, if you tell them it’s like living in Sweden/Norway they’ll just tell you they’ve never been to those places – that hampers Bernie’s appeal.
Kent
@rikyrah: Nader and Stein were lazy too. They let the idiot greenies do all the work for them.
Immanentize
What’s the over/under on Bernie having said the same thing to Harris? Or Klobuchar? Or, probably best bet, Gillibrand?
Raindrops Pattering on Banana Leaves
Baud
Punters getting a workout.
Kathleen
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I loved John Stewart and the Kingston Trio. Thanks for bringing him up.
Chyron HR
@PaulWartenberg:
And, you know, that he openly hates Democrats while campaigning for the Democratic nomination.
karen marie
@Another Scott: Kill me now.
Ruckus
@Steeplejack (phone):
I’ll argue that it’s not. There are a number of us who check in late, because of geography or sleep cycles or work or all three. I often comment back to J R in WV on dead posts.
It is my calling, to get in the last word when no one is listening……. And I’m not the only one with this as a guiding light.
Baud
@Immanentize:
I doubt he’s had in depth conversations with them.
karen marie
@joel hanes: I posted her a link.
Raven Onthill
CNN: let’s Warren and Sanders fight!
Sanders supporters: Racist! Elitist! Woman!
Warren supporters: Sexist! Do-nothing! Hillary Clinton opponent!
Capitalist pigs: Fight! Fight! Fight! (contented grunting)
Me: groan.
Not worried about Sanders as a third party candidate, BTW – if he’d wanted he could have done that in 2016 and he didn’t. Worried a lot about Gabbard, who is unreasonably popular, despite cult membership and Putin, Assad, and Modi connections.
Another Scott
@karen marie: Nope, nope, nope. You have to stay here and fight with the rest of us!!
:-)
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
Clemson strikes first.
Immanentize
@Baud: not in depth. Just the courtesy meeting that Senators would definitely give each other. I know Warren and Harris talked….
Elizabelle
@Ruckus: You have no idea how many people scroll through posts a day or two, or days later. Lurkers, insomniacs, procrastinators…. possibly convicts, lutists, thieves …
Immanentize
@Elizabelle:
Toss a Coin to your Witcher?
West of the Rockies
@Raven Onthill:
I think if Elizabeth and Bernie got at it in the debate, they both diminish their chances. (Unless EW is quite eloquent and direct, in which case maybe she raises her chances.)
Barbara
@West of the Rockies: Responding to your OT, a coach for the Nats deduced that Houston had some way of capturing and conveying signals because their record was so much better at home, like freakishly better, not in the range of normal variation. Nats adopted a system for the WS that was so complex I couldn’t even follow the explanation.
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: Lindsey Buckingham also was involved with the record. I like this overview of Stewart’s legacy:
onstagemagazine.com/gold-stewart-nicks-buckingham/
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@West of the Rockies: I suspect this will be more about their, by which I mean his, supporters
chris
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Yep. And my parents had Kingston Trio LPs which I grudgingly liked.
Immanentize
@West of the Rockies: It is such a complicated calculus. Warren now has the opportunity to publically hold Bernie’s behavior in 2016 as a big argument against him. And it would be a winner with Hillary supporters, at least against Bernie (it might help Biden or others). But I am not sure she is that person
Raven Onthill
@West of the Rockies: yes. I think the mods will probably try to see that they do, and I hope they won’t rise to the bait.
Immanentize
@Barbara: But it involved banging some kind of drum from the dugout…. I think they should be given awards for that.
Baud
@Immanentize:
As much as I’d like to see that, I agree that she’s unlikely to try it, and it would be a risky move this late in the process.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
Do we know each other?
Immanentize
@Baud: But when does she decide it is her best/only move?
Baud
Tie game
Baud
@Immanentize:
I don’t know. It’s a conundrum. I think it’ll depend on her internal polling in IA and NH. I think she had to beat Bernie in at least one of those states.
Kathleen
@Barbara: There was a local kerfuffle here when the Patriots were accused filming at a Bengals game this season prior to their last matchup. I keep asking myself why the Patriots would be spying on the worst team in the NFL. It makes no sense.
David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch
@Raven Onthill: you realize it was your hero Wilmer who started this by sending his press secretary and his canvassers to trash Warren. He thought he could take advantage of Warren, thinking she would take the high road and not fight back.
Now he’s calling Warren’s camp liars.
Sad!
Barbara
@Kathleen: Because that is the team where they got caught?
Immanentize
@Baud:
So now might be that moment. Or more accurately, let the dispute simmer, then drop it the last week of January. Drop it hard.
People would be both, BITCH! and SHE CAN DEFEAT TRUMP!
ETA. My fantasy. She really is playing the long game of unification.
Barbara
@David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Per my comment above, indeed, he thought she would take the high road. And really, if you read the statement, she did and is. She just isn’t willing to cover for him. His campaign should not have gone down this road.
Barbara
@Immanentize: I hate cheating and cheaters.
Immanentize
@Barbara: sign observing/stealing? Tradition, not cheating. It’s the high tech part that is bad to me. But hating cheaters is my jam. It’s why OJ was voted not guilty.
MisterForkbeard
@Immanentize: I don’t think Bernie ever really talked to Harris or Klobuchar. They’re not really fellow travelers in the way he and Warren are, and Bernie doesn’t make attempts to persuade people who don’t already agree with him – at least, according to other Senators.
Immanentize
@MisterForkbeard: Then what is reported he said to Warren is spot on.
Elizabelle
@Kathleen: Thank you. Will check that out.
And I see that the Buckingham Nicks LP is on youtube. Knew that cover for years, but never listened to the actual album (which I think was never released on CD).
Also interested in John Stewart and his songwriting. California Bloodlines — never heard of that either.
@Ruckus: LOL. Not yet, but I am so crashing a California meetup one of these years.
Kay
I’m sorry to see this because it hurts both of them.
Having interacted with Sanders supporters for a while now- 4 years- I think what bothers me about them is they don’t practice what I assumed were broad Lefty themes- things like solidarity and acting and working collectively/cooperatively. They’re very transactional, really, and while there’s nothing wrong with that in “politics”, it’s also a very conventional way to operate and one I would assume they would identify as more the approach of “centrists” or “neoliberals”.
J R in WV
@Ruckus:
And I often see that at 4 or 5 am Eastern time when I’m awake for a while.
Always grateful for the slow conversations in the wee hours.
zhena gogolia
Cole’s on twitter making excuses for Wilmer.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
Well, but also criticizing Wilmer. so it’s okay
Kathleen
@Barbara: But why would Patriots even bother with the Bengals? It was the second to last game of the season?
Elizabelle
@zhena gogolia: I don’t find Elizabeth Warren that “far left.” I really don’t. She’s actually somewhat “modern Europe”.
Bernie — FIDO. To quote raven. Or “fuck ’em” to quote efgoldman.
Barbara
@Immanentize: You do you.
MisterForkbeard
@Barbara: This is not appeasing Bernie’s supporters, from what I see on facebook and twitter. She’s polite about it and matter of fact, but they’re largely calling a corporatist sell-out whore who can’t be trusted.
The even-handedness of the letter and urging people to get back to issues is taken as villainous and nefarious attempts by her to stab Bernie in the back because he’s number one.
People pointing out that he is not, in fact, number one are dismissed as either traitors or people who believe in “DNC polls”.
It’s like watching the Trump supporters on reddit. I have to keep reminding myself that these idiots are not representative of Bernies supporters. At least, I hope not.
Kent
@zhena gogolia: What, are you guys stalking Cole and reporting back to the mothership when he is a bad boy?
Kay
I think I end up here for the reason that I’m a woman who might say “a woman won’t win” – I have said that. Not that that excuses Bernie’s bizarre attack-canvass, which is just weird.
Kathleen
@Elizabelle: California Bloodlines is considered somewhat of a cult classic. Stewart also accompanied Harry Belafonte on one of his trips down South during the Civil Rights marches.
MisterForkbeard
@Immanentize: Honestly, I’m not pissed about Bernie’s conversation at all. I think he bad a real opportunity to do well and say he believes that women will have a harder time… and that this election and 2016 both prove it, and that he respectfully raised the concern in private but continued to support her run.
He didn’t. Instead, he lied about it. Warren didnt back up his lie and now they’re both dealing with this shit while his supporters froth at the mouth. Sigh.
debbie
@Kay:
Hey, congratulations on the granddaughter!
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: Right. If he’s just said they had a conversation where he shared concerns and that he continued to support her run, the whole thing would be a non issue.
I think his whole operation is just geared to attack constantly. Cant really do much else.
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
It’s a long tradition here.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard:
Yup. His tweeps will make this worse for at least the next twenty-four hours. And spellcheck accepts “tweeps”.
Kay
@MisterForkbeard:
I think any of the candidates have to show they can unite the Democratic Party, not because they love the Democratic Party but because they won’t win without doing it. Bernie seems the least interested in doing that, and he has to. It’s not negotiable. He won’t win without all the big factions. I’m not sure he’s capable of admitting that because he sees it as a concession. Joe Biden doesn’t see it as a concession. He sees it as a success.
Barbara
@MisterForkbeard: Well, realistically, since they were already primed to trash her they would hardly see this as a reason to stop.
debbie
@Immanentize:
Biden could make that same argument.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay:
that’s an interesting way to put it, and I think true
Kent
Bernie was shitty to Warren and then lied about it.
Warren just told the truth after it all came out and then moved on.
And it is now all Warren’s fault that there is a twitter shitstorm in the Bernie-verse? Because she is a woman or something? And something about male privilege and knowing your place?
Did I get that right?
Immanentize
@Kay: GMom! You, mother, daughter, surrounding men OK?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: checked in on a cultist of my twitter acquaintance, she had retweeted this
Kathleen
@Kay: Congratulations to you and your daughter/SIL on your baby grandgirl! Grandparenthood is the best!!!
Immanentize
@Barbara: I can’t very well do anyone else, can I?
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: That depends on your definition of do.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: I think Bernie’s primary strategy had been pretty clear and steady – basically, hold onto his portion of the primary voters and let everyone else splinter into small factions.
He hasn’t ever really reached out or tried to unite the party be cause it doesnt agree with his strategy… and because it would piss off his base, who consider moderates and slightly less leftists as Republicans. Pushing for unity is a hard sell for him.
Immanentize
@debbie: agreed. As I suggested, it might not in the end benefit Warren, but Biden.
Kay
@debbie:
Oh, thanks. She’s really cute. She was late so I was in this horrible holding pattern where I had taken time off but kept going to work because she wasn’t coming and by the time she came I only had like 12 hours until I had to be back here, including the 8 hour car trip. I think I can go back out in the next two weeks though, if I do a Friday thru Monday trip….and stop sleeping completely.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: 🙏
I surrender.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, FFS.
Immanentize
@Barbara: I am not sure you are picking up on what I am putting down. Hating cheaters is what I do. Publically. In courts!
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m seeing the same take. This is all Warren’s fault, you see. Because she’s awful and clearly hates progressives and is a nasty woman.
Warren’s been respectful and asked to move past it. Seriously, this is about 1/100th as bad as insisting Hillary was corrupt and because she made some anodyne speeches to corporations.
zhena gogolia
Happy Kay Francis’s birthday!
Nelle
I just looked at the comments on a Warren post and man, I had no idea, that the Bernie cult swarmed and trashed that much. It’s vicious. It is a cult and irrational.
zhena gogolia
@Nelle:
And I think Russia is not uninvolved.
zhena gogolia
@Nelle:
BruceFromOhio
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: boy howdy, lotta twisties up that way. Gotta be fun on two wheels!
Kent
On the plus side. No one who is remotely undecided about 2020 is paying even the slightest attention to all this.
KräkënJäck
@chopper:
Perhaps Thë Ümlöüts would be more evocative.
Raven Onthill
@David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: I think this got started with some troll leaking from the Sanders campaign and then some other troll leaking from the Warren campaign.
Naturally, this occurred just in time for the debates tomorrow. Curious coincidence, that.
And I do wish people would stop trying to read my mind. As I keep saying, I’m a Warren supporter, a Warren volunteer, even. Wilmer is in no way my hero. I just don’t hate Sanders for breathing.
AxelFoley
@David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
And this is the guy whose
cult memberssupporters love to tell us how he marched with King and chained himself to a black woman during a Civil Rights protest and shit.