It is a packed house here at the Hanover Inn for @ewarren’s second town hall of the day. Before taking the stage, the Senator popped into the overflow room to say hello: pic.twitter.com/oOTqDOWilE
— Tara Prindiville (@taraprindiville) January 2, 2020
Rebecca Solnit, at the Guardian — “My dream candidate exists… “:
If I was going to invent a dream candidate, she would be grounded in small-town, rural or heartland America but able to hold her own in the citadels of power on the coasts. She would comfort the afflicted with the same passion with which she afflicts the comfortable, and she would understand the causes of those afflictions and have good ideas about how to remedy them. She would be moved by compassion but wouldn’t ask us to rely on compassion; she would have tangible strategies for widening our distribution of income, healthcare, education and opportunity, and she would be smart about the intersections of race, gender, class and the rest.
She would have been around long enough to remember that since the 1980s the government has dismantled a lot of systems that made us more safe and more equal, and she’d be fresh enough to imagine new ways out of the consequences of that catastrophic dismantling. Also she would have to be funny and have big plans to address climate change. OK, she already exists, and I’m talking about Elizabeth Warren. She is, to me, a better candidate for president than I ever expected we’d have.
My dream candidate would’ve been a woman of color with all these qualities, and my dreamiest dream candidate would be a woman of color with Medusa hair who could turn the entire Republican Senate to stone with a glance, but Warren is who’s left in the race, and she is magnificent, and superheroes from Megan Rapinoe to Roxane Gay agree. Also, she pretty much turned Wells Fargo’s CEO into stone in a 2016 Senate banking committee hearing, more than a decade after she became one of the most outspoken experts telling Wall Street why it’s vicious and half a decade after she endorsed Occupy Wall Street. The strength of her candidacy is shown by how she’s made it to the front of the race despite misogyny from across the political spectrum, the wrath of the billionaires pouring money – and themselves – into the race, and the smears and distortions of the mainstream media…
I’m from the urban coastal immigrant-Jewish left myself, which does not actually make me virtuous, but lucky in that I didn’t have to travel far to land in progressive positions (and gives me a front-row seat on how much misogyny and meanness the left can include). The word radical comes from a word for roots; Warren has certainly been radical in her analysis of root causes since 1975, when her first law-review article savaged an anti-bussing court ruling. Way back then, she was delving deep into how the law blocked equal educational opportunity, and she weighed in on the side of Detroit’s black families and the urban poor generally…
The Warren disability plan is out, and it has exactly the level of detail, respect, and thoughtfulness you’d expect. I’m honored to have been one of the many folks in the disability community who consulted on this plan. @ewarren knows our fight, and she’s all in. https://t.co/GgdMZoEPcT
— Julia Bascom (@JustStimming) January 2, 2020
Ok @ewarren I'm endorsing you. You're the only person to address disability rights and issues. I'm a Paralympian and the wheelchair repair company doesn't bother to call 1st. But no, I'm at work, not sitting around at home. Such ableism! We can do better! https://t.co/pwbqJY7a1F
— Lee Ford (@FlameGoddessLee) January 2, 2020
pat
When ever someone whines about “electability” because she’s a woman, just say
HILLARY WON THE POPULAR VOTE by almost 3 million.
Or better yet, shout it out.
;-)
Another Scott
Good for SP Warren.
In other news, ex-Mayor Pete has a tweet out with a 2:30 video with his comments on Donnie’s attack on Iran.
Lots of good questions. Not many answers for where we are now.
I’m not impressed, myself.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
piratedan
I’m not ready to count her out… if butts in seats means anything, there still is apparently a whole lotta enthusiasm from folks showing up to her events. She still has the right enemies and to be honest, I have no issues with people viewing her campaign with skepticism and wariness, after everything that has taken place in our political environment it never hurts to be cautious. If nothing else, she hits the notes on her campaign regarding other constituencies that appear to have been fringed out or forgotten. I want to see how it looks for her post Super Tuesday. I want to see votes tabulated and people expressing their preference at the ballot box versus some pollster and whatever mechanism they used to generate their findings.
debbie
@Another Scott:
With the candidate or with Trump’s strike?
James E Powell
@pat:
I wonder how many Americans know that? It’s one of those things that was dismissed, explained away, then ignored. Two of my Trumpista relatives in Ohio said that it was due illegal aliens voting in California and that this had been proven.
Baud
A Warren comeback would solve a lot of problems.
Martin
@James E Powell: Californians don’t count.
debbie
Has anyone heard whether any Dems have been briefed on Iran yet? The bits I’ve heard today only talk about Republicans getting briefings.
SiubhanDuinne
@James E Powell:
When I pointed that out to my RWNJ Trumpian flat-earther brother shortly after the 2016 election, he snarled “Oh, so you want mob rule?”
Began shaking my head then, and it’s still pivoting in stunned disbelief.
NotMax
@debbie
Under normal circumstances, the so-called Gang of Eight is briefed.
As that includes both Schiff and Pelosi, unclear if normal procedures prevailed.
Another Scott
@debbie: With ex-Mayor Pete’s comments. He continues to bother me.
To be clear – he’s very smart, he understands lots of issues.
But he seems to be afraid of actually taking a stand on anything that might upset Republican voters. All of his statements seem excessively calculated to me. He seems to have to wait to see what the polls say the voters want before coming out strongly on anything. (E.g. his flip-flop on single-payer.)
It’s weird.
YMMV.
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@NotMax:
Schumer said he had not been briefed (I heard this reported at about 6pm, but I don’t know when he said it); I would assume he’s a member of that group.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I would be so much happier to see it between Biden and Warren.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Thanks, and I agree with you.
khead
I approve this message. But it’s a long, long way to the finish line.
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
Trump retweeted Dinesh D’Souza saying that Schumer wasn’t informed ahead of time for the same reason the Iranians weren’t.
Bruuuuce
@NotMax: Reports around the net are saying that the Gang of Eight was not briefed, but that Lindsey Graham knew because Cheetolini told him what he intended while they golfed.
I guess that makes this a day ending in “y”
NotMax
@Another Scott
Where I come from it was called fumfering.
Antithetical to inspiring (or projecting) confidence.
zhena gogolia
Berniebro has bigfooted.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: As long as we are doing this today, I think Warren’s skill set and expertise make her better suited to the Senate than the White House.
Hello TBogg.
jk
I wish Elizabeth Warren all the best, she’s been a breath of fresh throughout this campaign. With her win in 2020, we could once again have a President who knows how to speak English.
Martin
@NotMax: Gang of 8 haven’t been briefed. Israel and Russia have, though. Graham was on the golf course. Eric Trump was based on his twitter feed. Who the fuck knows who else.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, I agree, and I would prefer Harris, but she’s out. I would rather have Warren be the lefty choice than Sanders. At this point I’m not enthusiastic about anyone, but Biden’s experience weighs pretty heavily with me. Especially as foreign policy rears its head.
James E Powell
I really like Warren. She is tops on my Who would make the best president? list. But she’s not moving ahead of the pack. Last polls I saw on 538 had her fourth. I don’t see how she survives a fourth place finish unless she outright wins New Hampshire.
Is that why she spending time there this week? 538 had her in fourth place there, too. But that was the first week of December.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Hey Baud, could you send an email message to WaterGirl? I have a question for you off-line.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus: any of them, hell even Steyer counts, would be a monumental improvement over the guy who tells his vulnerable overseas personnel in harm’s way to get the fuck out 12 hours after he commits an illegal act that offs a high official of another country.
the bar is 6 inches underground at this point.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I would pay a dollar not to have this thread turn into a food fight.
edit: MM posted 40 minutes after this post.
Another Scott
@NotMax: A good word! Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
It’s just a courtesy then?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m a Warren fan, I was in my own mind trying to make up my mind between her and Harris, but now… I would be content for myself and nervous for the outcome with either her or Biden, but I know what you mean. And there’s something to be said for being the Lion(ess) of the Senate.
@zhena gogolia: you made me laugh
Mnemosyne
@zhena gogolia:
Meh. At least it’s a new topic.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Mnemosyne: Must… fight… over… primaries… AAAARRRGGG!!!!
Omnes Omnibus
@satby: I don’t disagree at all.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
She’s not my first choice, but she does seem to have a lot of the administrative skills needed for the job.
The biggest problem for me is that she anchored herself to someone else’s rhetoric and can’t seem to unhitch herself even though it’s dragging her down. That was an unforced error and speaks to the fact that she hasn’t been a Democrat for very long, so she doesn’t really understand the party’s dynamics and what the actual base wants to hear, not the loudmouths on Twitter.
janesays
@James E Powell: If she only comes in 4th place in New Hampshire, she’s finished. She can probably afford to come in 2nd there, maybe 3rd – but no, absolutely not 4th.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: We are basically in the same place.
janesays
@Mnemosyne:
She’s been a Democrat for 24 years (since 1996) – I’d say that’s a fairly decent chunk of time. She hasn’t been an elected official for a long amount of time, but that’s true for a number of other candidates as well.
Mnemosyne
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Meh, I get annoyed when people try to tell me to ignore my lying eyes and pretend that ongoing harassment isn’t happening. I’m done for now, I think.
janesays
@satby: I’ll take that a step further – even Michael Bloomberg would be a monumental improvement over the incumbent president. And Michael Bloomberg is awful. There is literally no candidate in the Democratic field whose election to the presidency would have worse consequences for America than a second term of Trump. Not one. Not even Gabbard (fortunately, we won’t have to worry about pinching our noses and reluctantly voting for her).
Mnemosyne
@janesays:
As a cradle Catholic, I’m going to reach for the “convert” metaphor. A lot of converts mean really well, and many of them are devout, but there are still little dogma and ritual things that trip them up. I think that’s what’s tripping Warren up — she listened to the wrong people and misunderstood the dynamics within the party. Her polling with African American voters is abysmal, and she can’t possibly win the nomination without them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl:
/takes mashed potatoes back to the cafeteria line/
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
I learned something really disturbing about Distort DeNewsa from a college classmate and it just confirmed that he’s a horrible, horrible person. If it wouldn’t harm my friend’s confidence I’d share it because the guy is a menace and a yuuge hypocrit.
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne: I was about to say that no one is asking you to pretend that harassment isn’t happening, it’s just that people are tired of talking about it in every thread.
But then I noticed that this is, indeed, a thread about the primaries, so forget that. :-)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and the party has changed dramatically in that time– a lot of people argue the party has changed dramatically in the last ten, even three years
@Mnemosyne:
that’s true of a lot more people than Warren. I think one of the reasons Biden is so strong is he didn’t fall into any of the twitter traps the other candidates did
janesays
@Mnemosyne: To be fair, EVERY candidate not named Joe Biden is polling horribly with African-Americans. Warren is only at 11%, but she’s in third place among African-American voters. Sanders is only doing slightly better at 15% with that voting bloc. Every other candidate is in the single digits or worse (including Cory Booker, one of the only two African-Americans in the race, who is at 5%).
I think that group is very persuadable and could shift if they start to see another candidate as being “electable” (ugh, that word again), which will only happen after the primaries get underway. If any one candidate comes out of the first three contests as a clear frontrunner ahead of Biden, you’re going to see the African-American vote move towards that person. 85% of African-Americans recently said they will support ANY Democratic candidate over Donald Trump.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Will I start a food fight if I say Andrew Yang pisses me off? (just turned on my TV and he’s on the Melber program)
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
I’m going to try and restrain my comments to talking about Warren’s campaign, FWIW, and not any outside issues.
Unless somebody makes me mad again. ? But I do feel like I said my piece in the earlier thread and got it out of my system for the day.
beckya57
@pat: Unfortunately, Hillary isn’t president. Whoever the Dems nominate will beat Trump in the PV next year, probably by a wider margin than Hillary did, but that’s irrelevant. There’s reason to believe Trump’s advantage in the Electoral College is even stronger now than in 2016. A female Dem will be even more heavily disadvantaged in the EC than a male Dem. I like Warren too, but it’s too big a risk in this election.
Mnemosyne
@janesays:
I’m not worried about African American voters in the general — if they are not prevented from voting like they were in Wisconsin and Michigan in 2016, or in Georgia and Florida in 2018, they will vote for the Democrat.
But you CANNOT win the nomination without them voting for you. Biden is the only candidate who seems to understand that.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
As someone has been a Biden skeptic from Day 1, it meant a lot to me that he recently became the only candidate so far to not treat Hillary Clinton as invisible (or worse). I’m particularly disappointed that Warren has not bothered to pick that low hanging fruit.
I recognize I am probably a tiny minority, so I don’t blame anyone for not playing to my sensibilities. But that doesn’t mean I can’t reward courage with my vote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: not as much as Tom Steyer and his term-limit horseshit piss me off, not as much as Bloomberg, but he pisses me off (TV still on)
Another Scott
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
But, but, Andrew Yang’s opening statement is “gIvE yOu $1200o0 tHoSanD dOllaRs.”
Who wouldn’t want $1200o0 tHoSanD dOllaRs???!!
(™ Evan Hurst at Wonkette.)
Cheers,
Scott.
beckya57
@Omnes Omnibus: Also important to note that, strange as it seems, the governor of MA is a Republican, meaning that if Warren leaves the Senate we’ll lose another Senate seat to McConnell’s tender mercies for at least a couple of years. This is a reason to be concerned about her candidacy, and an even better reason to be totally opposed to appointing her to a Dem administration post.
Mnemosyne
@beckya57:
If we don’t have another failed candidate standing outside the tent pissing in and amplifying the misogynistic attacks from the “left,” I think a woman could win in those states.
But I’m going to leave it there because I promised WaterGirl that I would. ?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@beckya57: We’d not lose it for a couple of years, there’d be a special election within either 6 or 9 months after a vacancy. However, we’d probably get a Republican in that seat for the interim.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
It’s like “The Last Jedi” — we’re not allowed to talk about any actual successes or positives because the sea lions will come piling in to demand that we focus solely on the negative.
They were so happy that she lost on a technicality that they get pissed off if we dare mention that she got 3 million MORE votes than Trump did and he only won by cheating.
Mo MacArbie
I worry about all the candidates. I am a Democrat, after all. It’s what we do. So I try to remember:
So I guess I’ll just vote and drive on.
Another Scott
@beckya57: No offense, but this again?
NCSL.org (reformatted):
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
janesays
@Mnemosyne: Do you really think Biden worked hard to get the support of African-Americans, though? He was polling strongly with them from the day he announced, and it’s entirely because of who he worked for in his last full time job.
You’re right that a candidate can’t win the nomination without the African-American vote, but I just don’t believe that candidate preferences are set in stone with African-Americans. If Biden has respectable showings in Iowa and New Hampshire (no worse than second in at least one, no worse than a close third in either), he’ll have a blowout victory in South Carolina. If another candidate comes out clearly ahead of Biden after the first three states, some of the South Carolina A-A vote is going to migrate to that person. If any candidate has a commanding lead after the first four, they are going to win the African-American vote on Super Tuesday. Biden’s strong grip on the African-American vote is entirely contingent on him showing he can perform strongly with the non-African-American vote as well.
It’s worth noting that in 2008, the African-American vote was decidedly behind Hillary Clinton all the way up until Iowa – and when Obama won there, they felt confident he could win everywhere and shifted their support to him. If Biden does terribly in the first two contests, it’s going to shake the African-American voter perception that he is the most electable candidate.
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No food fight. I lift my glass to you. In the past ten days, Yang’s made clear that if you opt in for his Freedom Dividend, you lose social benefits, and although he’s airing ads saying he’s for Medicare for All, he doesn’t support a Medicare buy-in or a public option and he thinks everyone should pay co-pays when they visit a doctor so they have “skin in the game” (his words). Elsewhere he’s said Americans are too inclined to go to doctors when their problems would be better handled by yoga, exercise, and nutrition. No doubt lifestyle’s a major factor in health but it’s not like primary care physicians don’t encourage things like this all the time. All this amounts to is Andrew Yang’s a Grover-Norquist-style libertarian, as far as I can tell.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
It’s surreal. This great travesty was done to our country and it party in 2016 and our candidates have to avoid the central figure at the heart of the attack. But we’re
still supposed to have confidence in them to do great things.
Mnemosyne
@janesays:
I think he worked hard for at least 8 years to earn those voters’ trust. It’s not just reflected glory from Obama — they like and respect him in his own right.
I also think that they’re very practical (because they have to be) and will switch if it looks like another candidate has a better chance, but if they DON’T switch, then Biden wins. Period.
Not courting those voters is a really, really stupid move that a whole lot of candidates have made so far. It’s not necessarily something where no one else is going to be able to make up that ground, but AA voters are going to need to be given a damn good reason to switch, and no other candidate seems to have realized that.
Kent
My ideal scenario?
Warren takes out Sanders
Klobuchar takes out Biden
And then we can have a really serious hard-fought remaining primary campaign between two good candidates who are actual Democrats and aren’t geriatric.
I think Mayor Pete will take himself out without help once we get past Iowa. Don’t see him gaining traction in any non-white states
I do think if we end up with Biden that a Biden/Klobuchar ticket would possibly be the strongest play for the upper midwest states like WI, MI, and PA that gave Trump the White House last time around.
Omnes Omnibus
@janesays: He has been doing it for years. He has shown up and canvassed for AA candidates whenever they asked him. He has a history that AA voters are aware of. It’s not just that he was Obama’s VP.
Mary Ellen Sandahl
@Another Scott:
I don’t know what Mayor Pete himself would say to this, and maybe I haven’t much insight into the issue being old, straight and female myself. But I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that a very smart gay man coming of age in Ruby Red Indiana would have learned a lot about the dangers and strategies of public self-revelation by the time he reached voting age. Survival lessons like that aren’t east to cast aside. My .02.
trollhattan
@Kent:
We’re not sufficiently worthy for that but it would sure be a breath of fresh air.
satby
@Another Scott: interesting you saw it that way. I thought he was walking people through Adam’s post from the other night in a way, detailing what should have been considered before such an action (leaving it obvious that it hadn’t been considered at all) and what potential outcomes could be. The news media sure isn’t going to inform people of that, and they all aren’t reading an almost top 10,000 blog either.
WaterGirl
@Kent: To all of that, I say “ugh”.
What we want isn’t going to matter, except for our one little vote, and for any people we influence by working for a candidate or donating to them so they can afford to have other people work for them.
Kent
@Mary Ellen Sandahl: Mayor Pete is a shockingly bright and talented politician which has gotten him this far. I think he has the unfortunate circumstance of being from Indiana and is trying to make the enormous leap from local politics to national politics in one jump without passing through the Senate, House, or Governor’s mansion or being a national figure like Trump or Eisenhower.
I honestly think he would have been better served by picking a different state from Indiana when he got back from war-fighting and globetrotting consultant work. Had he decided to move to some place like say Washington State he’d probably be in line a governorship or something at this point just on sheer talent and ambition. Beto has the same problem. Basically no where to go in TX.
tobie
@Kent: There’s something intriguing in your scenario (Warren taking out Sanders, Klobuchar taking out Biden) because it could lead eventually to the most unexpected unity ticket of a progressive and a moderate Dem–namely some combo of Warren and Klobuchar/ The order would be determined by who got the most delegates in the primaries. I need to chew on this a bit.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Also, this. People who think that Black voters only like Biden because he was Obama’s VP don’t seem to realize this.
janesays
@Another Scott: Valid point, and while the (temporary) loss of the seat wouldn’t be so bad as to completely hamstring the senate for years, it wouldn’t be nothing, either.
Say Warren gets elected on November 3rd, 2020, and resigns her seat on November 4th, starting the special election deadline clock – that means the special election would have to be held no later than April 13, 2021. That said, it’s worth noting that there have been two special elections for vacated senate seats in Massachusetts in the last 10 years, and in both cases, the winner of the special election didn’t actually assume office until more than two weeks later (16 days for Scott Brown and 21 days for Ed Markey). So that pushes the date the seat would be under GOP control until the end of April. That would basically be the entire first 100 days of the Warren presidency. The likelihood of McConnell having a majority in the senate during that interim period is significantly greater if he has a Massachusetts senate seat in his caucus at least temporarily. Which means literally no legislation gets passed in the first 100 days of Warren’s presidency.
That’s not ideal. I don’t think it’s a strong enough reason to not vote for Warren in the primaries (she’s got my vote), but it is a valid concern.
dww44
@Another Scott: Since Elizabeth Warren seems unafraid to take a stand, she won me over a long time ago.
WaterGirl
@Kent: I think some people are more suited for an administrative role, such as governor or president, and others are more suited to something like the house or the senate.
I see no value in trying to push talented politicians into an environment that doesn’t suit them. I applaud Stacey Abrams for knowing that she has no interest in, and is not suited for, work in the senate. I think more people should stay true to themselves.
edited. If satby’s response is WTH, it’s time to rethink what you wrote.
satby
@WaterGirl: WTH?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: I suspect the plan was to use the campaign to get to a cabinet position, thus jumping up the cursus honorum without having to deal with Indiana politics, and his campaign caught fire in a way even he didn’t expect.
It’s yet another phenomenon I don’t get. I’m trying to remember being as surprised by political events before 2016. I was slow to get on the Obama train, in part I think because I was a bit more firebaggery in the wake of the Iraq War, and the Bush years in general
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: And if you don’t agree, and say so, then it’s your fault for being negative about a potential Dem nominee with almost 20% support (!)
It’s not healthy. I don’t want every thread to become a flame war either, but an imposed silence would be worse IMHO.
I mean come on – we’re rabid jackals here. We’re used to handling some rude disagreement. And there’s a pie filter and everything.
Community moderation is important, and personal attacks should be off limits – but I reserve the right to speak my mind about the folks who are seeking our votes, even if what I have to say is “fuck this guy/gal”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kent: Wow, he gets knocked as a credential seeker whose every move has been calculated to make himself more electable and you come in and ding him for going back to his hometown.
WaterGirl
@satby: Can you be more specific?
Was it my prison comment? It was in reference to all/most IL governors going to prison.
Baud
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I actually wasn’t talking about Sanders. It’s the other ones that are the disappointment on this topic.
dww44
@zhena gogolia:
This perfectly encapsulates why I literally despise Trump to the very tips of my fingers and toes. He has been a divider from day one of his campaign. He has done nothing but divide this country into those for him and those against him. This statement is just so wrong and, frankly, evil. I am sick to death of him.
Kent
@Mnemosyne: Honestly I’d probably be behind Biden too if he was 10 years younger. I do think the Obama-era Biden showed pretty damn good instincts. Getting out ahead of his skis and Obama on gay marriage for example. And opposing Obama’s surge in Afghanistan.
All the longing for the days of TipandRonnie and bipartisan kumbaya is a little off-putting and naive-sounding to us political junkies. But I’m quite sure both Obama and Biden have zero illusions about the current nature of the Republican party. They lived the past decade. We only watched it. I suspect 99% of it is calculated for show. Obama won a LOT of fairly conservative blue collar votes in two elections. I think he knew what the fuck he was doing. And Biden was right by his side both times.
My only real pause with Biden is his age and energy level. I’m just not convinced he is up for the nuclear war to come. And for 8 years of clawing back our country.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@satby: I assume the end of that was a joke about how the tendency of Illinois governors to commit crimes and go to jail. Not sure of there’s more than Gov. Rob B. that fit that pattern though?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: My mistake. I misunderstood your reference to Hillary as “the central figure at the heart of the attack”.
I appreciated your comment earlier about how the attacks on her were attacks on all of us. They were. Our democracy is under attack. I do wish all of our candidates would be more up front about that.
satby
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: that was a version of Pete’s plan, either a cabinet position (where he’d do really well, I think), or raise his profile for a run for governor here in IN. His campaign has taken off way beyond what I think he ever envisioned. But he’s a lot like Hillary in the way people ascribe shifty, opportunistic motives to him while people who meet him or see him speak live really, really like him. We’ll see what shakes out.
Kent
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s just an observation. A Democratic mayor in a ruby red state is not a ladder for higher office. Hillary Clinton didn’t move back to Arkansas to run for Senate in 2000. She chose New York.
Of course Mayor Pete is enormously ambitious. Ambitious is the dictionary definition of a 37 year old small city mayor running for President.
zhena gogolia
@dww44:
It’s almost as evil as his boasting on NYE that he “won 196-0.” Because the 229 Democrats and 1 Independent who voted to impeach him don’t count.
ETA: I had almost as hard a time sleeping last night as on Nov. 9, 2016. I kept thinking, “This country is in the hands of very evil people.”
satby
@WaterGirl: I know what it was a reference to.
@Omnes Omnibus: the vast right wing smear machine has started to “hillaryize” our younger, talented politicians . Both Beto and Pete get it, AOC gets the treatment, a few other younger pols also.
satby
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: George Ryan, who went to jail for a fairly small con, but also ended the death penalty in IL. Dan Walker, Otto Kerner. Felons, we’ve had a few.
it just struck me as a bizarre comment, even as a joke.
WaterGirl
@satby: I edited that comment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@satby:
I don’t see what I described as “shifty” or “opportunistic”. He’s ambitious, pragmatic and talented. I don’t think ambition in a politician is a flaw. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Barack Obama were all ambitious. And to me, a lack of pragmatism is a flaw in a politician.
satby
@Kent: and we keep saying on this blog that we should fight for every state and not just abandon some to the Republicans. Then when people do they get dissed. Alrighty then.
WaterGirl
@satby:
I agree with that, but it seems bigger than that to me. Even some democrats parrot the smear-y out of context accusations. Maybe it’s jealousy or maybe they are pawns. Either way, I cannot figure out why democrats participate in that.
satby
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: did not state you said that, but the last few comments may be an illustration.
Omnes Omnibus
@satby: I met Dan Walker at a Cub Scout event when I was a kid. He walked up to everyone (kids included), stuck out his hand, and said “Hi, I’m Dan Walker.”*
* This was one of the ways that I knew he was Dan Walker.
satby
@WaterGirl: because the media pushing the narratives sets the tone and so far push back has been inconsistent. I think it’s getting a bit better, but one of the things needed is a massive counter to the propaganda passed off as news in this country.
PS, appreciate the edit ?
Citizen Alan
@SiubhanDuinne:
Every Republican basically wants apartheid at this point.
WaterGirl
@satby: We are going to be adding the topic Information Warfare to the front page next week.
Sadly, it seems timely.
Kent
@satby: Is Mayor Pete running for state-wide office in Indiana? If not then I’m not sure I understand your point. South Bend is a Democratic city. The last time a Republican held the mayor’s office in South Bend was 1971. It is about as safe as a blue seat as there is.
I agree that Dems should be challenging the GOP everywhere and I was 100% behind the 50 state strategy. But it means a whole lot of talented people in red states are going to be tilting at windmills.
Kent
@satby: Welcome to politics since the days of Ancient Rome.
The left does exactly the same thing. Look at the vitriol directed to Elise Stefanik in recent months. Yes, *we* think she is a total tool. But she’s just being a loyal party player. Which is what most politicians do.
But talent tends to win out. Witness Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
LongHairedWeirdo
I haven’t read the entire post, but just the sense of it, reminds me of how one friend expressed true admiration for Barack Obama: “he talks to us like we’re grown-ups.”
Warren has the same quality. Damn shame that quality is entirely devoid of any opportunity to report on the horse race, because it might look *partisan* to point out one side is running a smart, educated, wise, and really-goddamned COMPETENT, candidate, and the other is running a buffoon whose handlers have spoiled by making him think he’s actually succeeding at *anything* meaningful.
(Yes, he’s tried to reduce regulation with stupid, inane, and flat out bad faith “findings” by regulatory agencies. That ‘s not meaningful success; regulatory agencies could always lie, they just used to have someone in charge who demanded they didn’t.) Sure, he’s picked names from a list to deliver bad-faith decisions in the judiciary, but that was handed to him by Moscow Mitch.
(I’ve seen an attorney say that you should *never* accuse a judge of a bad faith judgement. I’m *really* glad I’m not an attorney, and don’t have to listen to such hogwash. If a man rules that “sure, you can’t drive the truck, *AND * it’s load, but you could drive *just the truck*, so when you abandoned the load, to save your life, you should have known you’d be fired!” you know it’s not a good faith decision. He ain’t that stupid; and a decision gives you time to think about what you’re saying and how you’re saying it. It was clearly bad faith, and fornicate anyone who suggests I shouldn’t speak truth to attorneys.))
Flashback, to the Hitchhiker’s books: “Where was I?” “Pontificating” “Oh, that’s right…”.
I think I’m done pontificating.
(comment updated, to close a parenthesis. I’m leaving before I edit again.)
Another Scott
@satby: Maybe he was doing that, I dunno.
I know you know much more about him than I do. I’m sorry that my comments changed the direction of the thread in an apparently painful way.
I’m not his audience for comments like these – I haven’t attended any relatively small gatherings for any politician.
I’m generally suspicious of people who are running for office who haven’t done the work and climbed up the ladder. Sometimes it works out – Terry McAuliffe was a good governor for VA even though that was his first elected office. But far too often it’s a disaster – RWNJs on school boards, etc.
Pete’s in a hurry. The Castro brothers were in a hurry too. That can be fine, but he needs a good explanation why he’s in a hurry (and didn’t have one for Amy at the debate). (Running for President to try to try to get a Cabinet position seems very weird to me, and I don’t see it working for him as a VP slot either, but who knows.) Pete’s still got a ways to go to overcome my reticence. But that’s just my opinion. :-)
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
something happened in this thread that I very much do not understand
anyway
If I’m Chris Hayes or one of the MSNBC weekend shows, I’d send a camera crew to that DMV with Ioffe to talk to the supervisor mentioned later in the thread.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
The Twitter beef I got into this spring with David Sirota and his fans was because he was freaking out that private citizens in the oil and gas industry donated less than 1% of Beto O’Rourke’s campaign funds for his Senate run, and of the several thousand oil and gas employees who made donations, about a dozen of them were self-described “executives.” This, of course, was Proof Positive that O’Rourke is in the pocket of the oil and gas industries and Must Be Destroyed.
And then the Sanders campaign hired Sirota. ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne:
Only reason that surprised me is I always associated Sirota with the kind of Kos-Bros who were going to save the Party with a Great White Hope like O’Malley or that asshole Schweitzer
Bobby Thomson
@satby:
That’s because he’s shifty and opportunistic. He started out chasing Sanders and Warren left before he realized that niche isn’t that big and most of it is spoken for. He sold city parks to balance the budget. And there’s a reason he has 0% A-A support in South Bend.
He’s smarter than John Edwards, but I don’t get the sense he has much more integrity.