The President very ironically can’t even spell “outrageous.” https://t.co/rIbaAaK94z
— Harold Cook (@HCookAustin) December 15, 2019
the boy king’s favorite binky tastes very bitter today pic.twitter.com/RyBNS2lvzk
— shauna (@goldengateblond) December 15, 2019
Final 2016 Fox poll:
Clinton 48, Trump 44Election results:
Clinton 48, Trump 46 https://t.co/0lynQWMvoI— Seth Masket (@smotus) December 15, 2019
Pretty sure the big story right now should be Trump is getting impeached and it's driving him literally insane.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) December 15, 2019
But no, we'll get more pieces about how he seems impervious to impeachment even as he's lashing out incoherently on Twitter at all ungodly hours.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) December 15, 2019
Huh! “The ‘everybody-does-it’ defense falls flat: only about one in five, 22 percent, think presidents typically ask leaders of foreign countries to investigate domestic political rivals. Among Republicans, 33 percent think that is common behavior.” https://t.co/BYO2AJLwNZ pic.twitter.com/ZiCiYcqjEx
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) December 15, 2019
The narrative of the past week — that impeachment is hurting Democrats broadly — is refuted by this Fox poll.
??The question has really been ab what independents think.
??Also far more are viewing GOP conduct as political than Dem. conduct. https://t.co/1Ax6nuxzCy
— Heidi Przybyla (@HeidiNBC) December 15, 2019
rikyrah
Hey ..what did you do at lunchtime?
Eh…just rescued three deer.??
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1206375905964232704
Hildebrand
Not that this will happen, but I would really like to see the Senate Republicans get royally thwacked because their fearless leader said that he will vote to acquit regardless of evidence.
dmsilev
Got to wonder about those people in the ‘impeach but not remove’ bucket. Is this the ‘if we send him a sufficiently strongly worded letter, he’ll stop doing crimes’ theory? Seems a tad poorly thought out.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Santa works harder than I thought.
Baud
At this point, polls don’t really matter, but it’s nice to see there’s no reason not to impeach.
NotMax
Dare we call it Schiffmas?
:)
More like a very short walk.
zhena gogolia
@dmsilev:
Maybe it just means they don’t want to say “remove” before the trial.
Gvg
@dmsilev: I think those might be people who are trying to please other people or who are surrounded by GOP or maybe in the middle of a split family. Also possibly not understanding the question, or not being aware of what the constitution actually allows.
Baud
@NotMax:
I think Pelosi has set the right attitude about the gravity of the situation. It’s good to see the House enforcing constitutional standards but I hope more prominent places like Twitter don’t get too flip in expressing their understandable joy about holding Trump accountable.
Kent
Clinton was impeached but not removed. For a certain strain of low engagement voter that might seem the middle road solution.
Baud
@dmsilev: When the alternative is Pence, some hesitation is understandable.
dogs inc.
@Baud: Maybe, but he has magic in his tool box.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
If this is true, then just imagine how “acquittal” in the Senate will go for Republicans and Trump, at least in the short-term
Lapassionara
@Baud: Pence is preferable to Trump. On so many levels.
Baud
@Lapassionara:
I understand. But not everyone is keen on the devil we don’t know.
Hildebrand
@Lapassionara: I am with you. Pence is a stiff, has negative charisma, is deeply weird, and generally unlikable. He will never be able to keep Trump’s Magats together.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Lapassionara:
@Baud:
Makes one wonder why McConnell et al are so keen on keeping Trump in office. Is it really because they’re afraid of their base, they don’t want a repeat of 1974, or something more nefarious? I honestly don’t know at this point
Lapassionara
@Baud: Pence has the charisma of a turnip. Part of Trump’s appeal is his celebrity. I wonder sometimes how many people just thought he would be an ok president because he had been a reality tv star. Anyway, that is my reading of the zeitgeist.
zhena gogolia
@Hildebrand:
I think he also has a tiny shred of decency somewhere buried under all that phoniness.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Hildebrand:
This could also be a good reason for the GOP’s cultish support of Trump. They know Pence would likely lose.
Baud
debbie
I was surprised there wasn’t more outrage when Trump shrugged off the news about Russia’s suspension for doping by saying we probably did it too.
Lapassionara
@Hildebrand: Ditto, to quote a famous radio host.
Kent
I think they are afraid of the feeding frenzy that will occur when he is gone and they all start to eat their own. It will be U G L Y.
Lapassionara
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): 1974?
mtmofo
Schumer has sent a letter to McConnell about the trial.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/schumer-asks-mcconnell-to-subpoena-mulvaney-and-bolton-in-senate-trial
Baud
@debbie:
He’s not a Democrat.
debbie
@Baud:
And they thought the Dems would just roll over in the Senate!
dogs inc.
@zhena gogolia: Not a chance.
debbie
@Baud:
What Democrat would have said that?
Baud
@debbie:
In Fox world, all of them, Katie.
Belafon
@Baud: We should applaud that Trump is getting impeached, and stay angry at Republicans for refusing to do their constitutional duty.
geg6
@Kent:
I think this is a large part of it. But there is also the usual cult behavior if going down with dear leader, regardless of the craziness dear leader has unleashed. Think of all the Peoples Temple people who drank the Flavorade, even though in their more rational moments they knew Jim Jones was nuts. Or the Nazis in the bunker who knew it was over even as Hitler ranted about how they could still win this thing. They are so far in that they can’t see a way out.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Lapassionara:
The 1974 midterm elections. The GOP lost a lot of seats following Watergate. They received no electoral benefit from (eventually) voting alongside Democrats to impeach Nixon and later participate in the trial in the Senate. Of course, they never voted for removal because Nixon resigned, probably because he knew the Senate had the votes.
All of this is to say, the GOP learned the wrong lessons from Watergate and see removing Trump, even if he’s unstable and is actively endangering civilization as we know it every day he sits in the White House, as the worst possible move they could make
Baud
@Belafon: Agreed. We love to snark and mock, myself included, and it’s often a great approach to deal with what’s going on, but I don’t want us to act like this is entertainment for us. It’s something I have to remind myself about as well.
Mike in NC
Every time I inadvertently see and/or hear Fat Bastard ranting on my TV or PC, I can feel a brain cell die.
Amir Khalid
@Hildebrand:
Alas, I concur that this isn’t going to happen. McConnell is a partisan Republican first and last (and indeed
exclusivelynothing but) so no one ever expected him to say any different.Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kent:
That’s definitely part of it and ties into what I’ve said in comment 34. They know the whole thing will collapse if they “do the right thing”, which let’s face it, some of them don’t view as the right thing to do at all. Trump would go nuclear on them.
Yarrow
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Nixon wasn’t impeached in the House. Articles were approved by Committee but not voted on by the House. He resigned before that happened.
ThresherK
I sorta missed that narrative. Was anybody who wasn’t an idiot making it?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
That’s sort of why I can hardly ever go on LGM. The commentariat there is sometimes too cynical in my opinion to the point of fatalism
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I hear you. I used to read them more, but it’s too much sometimes.
Kay
My neighbor saw me in the driveway tonight and came over to tell me to give her a yard sign when there’s a D nominee in a kind of blunt, desperate way that made me laugh because I recognize it- she wants to tell someone sympathetic that she’s mad. Her husband is a surgeon and they have 5 (grown) kids. I always assumed she was an R (most of my neighborhood is) – maybe she is an R.
I’ll be sure and get her one. I love that she doesn’t care who the nominee is – more people should admit that :)
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Yarrow:
He wasn’t? Thanks for correcting me. Huh. He really folded like cheap suit then, didn’t he? Then again, I’m sure the writing was on the wall since both chambers had Democratic majorities in the 93rd US Congress
planetjanet
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): How do you see the comments on LGM?
Hildebrand
@Amir Khalid: McConnell really is patient zero for a lot of the fuckery taking place in our country today. Yeesh, what a ghastly human being.
geg6
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
He had two choices. One was to fight it out and be removed. The other was to take the advice of the group of GOP senators, including Goldwater and Hugh Scott, who told him he didn’t have the votes and was definitely going to be removed. I think he’d have fought it out but the senators pretty much took all the air out. He knew he was toast.
(((CassandraLeo)))
(Mostly) non-politics aside, since this is an open thread:
I just got back from seeing Knives Out.
Go see it. If you like murder mysteries at all, go see it. Don’t read anything else about it; just go see it. The less you know about the story going in, the more it’ll delight you. In terms of plot, it’s basically Agatha Christie for 2019; in terms of content, you get incisive commentary on the American class system, racism, immigration, and more. It’s one of the best films I’ve seen this year, and I’ve seldom come out of the cinema feeling more elated.
Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.
John Revolta
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Barry Goldwater went to see Nixon in the White House and told him it was time to go. At the time, there was no Republican who was more Republican than that. The equivalent today would be if Ronald Reagan came back and told Trump to vamoose.
geg6
@John Revolta:
Yes, he and Hugh Scott, who was the Senate Minority Leader at the time and for years after. There were some other senators, too, but Goldwater and Scott were the heavy hitters.
artem1s
@Kay:
I remember how much people wanted W gone. Even though this has been exhausting, I’m encouraged how much those who want tRump gone, want him gone NOW.
Juice Box
@Hildebrand: Somewhere in the last few days I read that every senator who voted against convicting Andrew Johnson either retired or was voted out of office at their next election. Every single one.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@planetjanet:
As often informative but very cynical to the point of fatalism. As in “the GOP is going to emulate the PRI in Mexico during most of the 20th century and establish a defacto one-party state, a period known as, ‘the perfect dictatorship'”.
Dan B
@Lapassionara: Not with you on Pence being unelectable and not as dangerous. A lot of GOP’ers are tired of Trumps drama and are likely to believe that Pence quiet demeanor and Christian “morality” would make all the arguing and incivility stop. Pence would nothing more than making all the Geyz invisible and the scary Trans women go away – lock up the scariest… And his racism and extreme dislike of immigrants, only the brown ones of course is a deal breaker for me.
I believe Pence has been active in selecting judges that would love to turn many of The Handmaids Tale aspects into American reality. I’m not sure he’s bright enough to do this slowly. He seemed to turn off “Liberal Hoosiers” by pushing too hard and being too dogmatic.
Ladyraxterinok
We have messages like this from JimBakker being watched daily by millions of people–Bakker said ‘they’re trying to impeach him on the basis of the anonymous testimony of 1 whistleblower–it’s like calling in a homeless guy off the street and trying to convict somebody with that. Ie, according to Bakker there was zero testimony of ambassador, military expert, etc
This is the view heard and believed by those whose only info is from shows like this,
After a long rant, Bakker ended with shouted claim ‘it’s unconstitutional!’ And he got his audience to raise both arms and shout that in agreement.
And he told reps to see how people thought about this and reminded reps that these people VOTE!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@(((CassandraLeo))):
“But it was made by Ruin Johnson! Rey is a total Mary Sue!
/s
@geg6:
@John Revolta:
Yes. The Dems controlled both chambers so it was pretty much a foregone conclusion at that point. I find it interesting he would have fought it out under those conditions. It took members of his own party to tell him he was fucked. Those stories of him talking to the portraits in the WH at night must have some validity if he thought he had a shot of brazening out Watergate
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Once the tapes were made public any purely partisan divide narrowed considerably.
Also too, he resigned before a floor vote on impeachment at least partially in order to still inarguably be eligible for pardon once out of office (that there was a pre-resignation deal made with Ford is beyond doubt).
Kay
@artem1s:
I don’t know that she’s an R but if she is I like that she’ll let Democrats pick the nominee. Oh, whichever- you choose – just get RID of him. That’s the spirit!
The Never Trumpers online are so bossy about it. Annoying.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Nixon was never impeached, articles were voted out of Judiciary, but her resigned before a full House vote.
Geoduck
@(((CassandraLeo))): Small bonus with Knives Out for any child of the 70s or 80s; the name of one of the main characters is a deliberate reference to the Choose Your Own Adventure book/murder mystery “Who Killed Harlowe Thromby?”
Jeffro
My RWNJ dad calls him “Mullah Pence”, no lie.
As if trumpov is somehow less devoted than Pence to his right-wing fundy base!
Jeffro
@Geoduck: The victim is Harlan Thrombey, does that count?
Jeffro
@Geoduck: Now if they would just do a Mystery of Chimney Rock or Your Code Name Is Jonah movie!
Jeffro
May have already been quoted: trumpov is just 67 votes away from being an ex-president, and it’s freaking him out.
Can’t control everything, Donnie. But you’re definitely acting like an innocent man, fer shure…
Bill Arnold
@(((CassandraLeo))):
Likewise (well, last night). (Then go home and realize that it is … less clear.)
Duane
@Jeffro: People start paying attention when the Senate hearings begin, realizing this could actually happen. Support for impeachment should increase, his approval decrease and his craziness redline.
Bill Arnold
@Ladyraxterinok:
Poking at his wikipedia entry, I see:
That suggests some interesting flexibility. I wonder if he could be turned/convinced to turn against DJT.
Maybe he’s totally ossified since 1996, but maybe not.
Geoduck
@Jeffro: Yeah, that’s who I was talking about. The director in an interview said it was a deliberate homage.
joel hanes
@dmsilev:
Got to wonder about those people in the ‘impeach but not remove’ bucket.
Very unfortunately, many people seem to feel that the important thing in politics is “optics” : appearance and tone of voice, instead of outcomes.
joel hanes
@Hildebrand:
The evangelicals will be solid for Pence. They don’t care about political charisma — they care about being able to impose their own “moral” standards on the rest of us, and Pence has always been strong for that — it was pretty much his entire political identity in Indiana.
Evangelicals are a substantial chunk of Trump’s base.