The new site rolled out a month ago, and I’d like to get a feel for where things stand in terms of any remaining problems with the way the site functions. Please keep in mind that no site will ever be perfect, and please also note that we are not asking for design suggestions at this stage of the game.
The goal is to get the remaining rollout issues resolved soon.
This is your opportunity to make sure your site problems are represented on the “Remaining Issues from Rollout” List. I want to be sure that all ssues related to function are on the list, so please speak up now. Feel free to also pepper the comments with things you like, lest it start to feel that everyone hates everything!
I am not certain whether some of these might the same issue, just being described in different ways. Or perhaps they are different behaviors but they only happen when one of these other things happen?
I am hoping to get clarity on that from all of you in this thread: The more details and patterns that I can describe for any problem, the easier it is to resolve the problem. So things like “yes, this happens to me, but maybe only once or twice a week”, or “it only happens when I use this browser and not the browser” will be especially useful.
If just one or two people are having a problem, that may be related to particular device/browser combinations, or even browser settings, so part of what I hope to accomplish with this post is to get a sense of the scope of any remaining issues.
Commenting
A. Posted comments don’t always show up as soon as you post them, until a manual refresh.
B. Bounce to the top of the thread after submitting a comment.
E. Edit Comment is not always available after posting comment.
Are A, B, and E all different ways of describing the same issue? Are they related in some way?
Do B and C only happen when your comment does appear immediately after posting?
Edit Comments
TV. Text / Visual tabs aren’t consistently and reliably there.
Is this related to creating a comment? Editing a comment? Or both?
When do they go missing? Do they stay missing? Is it a now you see them, now you don’t kind of thing?
Navigation
N. Back Arrow doesn’t take you back through a series of steps, as it should
If you have noticed any patterns, please share what you have noticed.
Scrambled Comments Just after Multiples of Ten
aka Comments Overwritten
aka Comment Sandwich
aka Overlapping Comments
Is anyone still seeing this behavior now that the ads have started?
Recent Comments
RC. One person is reporting problems with Recent Comments
Is anyone else having this issue? If so, please describe it in the comments.
Replies
R. Only one person is reporting that they sometimes don’t get @nym when they hit the reply button.
Is anyone else having this issue? If so, please describe it in the comments.
RSS Feed
RSS. Only one person is reporting issues with the RSS feed.
Is anyone else having an issue with the RSS feed?
Wings for Previous Post / Next Post
Sometimes we have Post titles with special formatting: italics, strikethrough, etc.
This causes “interesting” formatting issues in the wings.
As long as there is special formatting in the titles, the wings are going to do that.
To do otherwise would involve non-trivial programming that we’re not prepared to ask for.
Have I missed anything? It will be super helpful if you refer to an item with its initial/s as you speak about it in the comments.
It’s also useful if you note if you do not have the problems listed.
Update 5:30 pm Saturday: I’m going to keep checking back on this thread throughout the weekend, so input will be included from everyone who posts by 7am on Monday morning.
raven
It’s fine by me.
Starfish
There was a post that Cheryl made not too long ago that was weird with RSS. The text was sitting on top of the image and was hard to read, and I do not know why. Let me see if I can dig it up.
It was this one. (I double-checked on my computer and it looks fine so I don’t know what I am complaining about.)
I am not sure why Tunch is the overlord of the whole RSS feed. I found his picture at the top of each RSS post a little heartbreaking, but I think I have adjusted to this.
The Golux
Navigation – I often encounter cases where the back arrow takes me to a comment that a previous use of the back arrow took me to; that is, it seems to get stuck on one comment to go back to. E.g.
— I’m on comment 12, click on link for comment 6. The back arrow returns me to comment 12.
— Later, I’m on comment 40, click on link to comment 25, but the back arrow puts me on comment 12.
Thereafter, back always takes me to comment 12.
Win10Pro / Chrome
The Golux
Also, no edit button on comment 3 as of yet.
John Revolta
Okay, so I get the A. Posted comments don’t always show up as soon as you post them, until a manual refresh thing most times I comment. Sometimes have to refresh twice. I usually get Edit Comment but
it often only works once. (Although sometimes, the counter goes back to 5 min after the edit which is nice.)
And I have to hit the back arrow twice to return to a previous comment. Safari 11, old Mac desktop.
chris
Using Chrome today and everything seems to be working fine. This is a first so three cheers for WaterGirl and team!
Firefox yesterday was another story. Needs more letters! I was especially impressed when I refreshed the page 5 times to see my Perfect Comment and 3 more to edit. Fun times.
Linux Mint/Chrome (today
ETA: Yup, Chrome is working well, no delays, no refresh needed.
Baud
Issues that I have that you haven’t mentioned. All mobile site.
WaterGirl
@The Golux: So you can see that your comment was posted, but you don’t have the Edit Comment box?
WaterGirl
@John Revolta: Thanks. FYI, the 5-minute window resets when you update the comment after editing, so that one isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
That happens to me too. Intermittent edit boxes.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Just so I can be sure I understand: You can see the comment you just posted, but you don’t see “Edit Comment”
Does that only happen after you create the original comment? Only after you edit a comment? Or does it sometimes happen on both?
Would you say every other time? 1 out of 10? 1 out of 20? Once it does that, does it keep doing that for awhile, or is it usually a one-off?
Baud
This is rare, but at times yesterday the site wouldn’t refresh. I assume it was not a redesign issue.
MattF
I have seen the editing tabs issue and various behaviors after commenting or refreshing. Doesn’t seem predictable, though.
Otherwise, things are working well.
Ohio Mom
My two biggest issues are: I can’t leave a comment after hitting Reply, the empty comment box is hidden from me, I can’t see what I am typing. My solution is to lurk more and comment less.
Two, the back arrow does not work. If I am trying to follow an interchange between other commentators. I end up doing a lot of scrolling back and forth and most of the time I don’t even try.
Maybe one day when I get a newer phone, things will work for me again.
WaterGirl
@Baud: One more question, this one related to replies.
Do you hit return twice from the reply window, to add the extra spaces? Or for you does hitting reply automatically add two returns for you, as it originally did?
Adam Lang
I wish I could use the ‘request desktop site’ feature of Safari, or a link On the site that sets a cookie, to just use the desktop experience on my mobile device. This responsive design thing might be great for some people but it basically makes my personal user experience actively unpleasant.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
WaterGirl
@Ohio Mom:
I don’t use my phone for the site much, but that did happen to me once and I tried hitting the X (in the formatting line) that would normally take your reply full screen, but instead it made it smaller so I could see where I was typing.
Also, this is a workaround rather than a solution (for now) but you can hit the (other) X to close the comment and then hit COMMENT in the white bar, and it will take you down to the comment box where the reply you started is waiting for you.
trollhattan
I observe A, B and E WRT commenting with FF and Chrome in Win 10. That’s all from the list that I notice; truth be told I don’t use RSS and some other features.
ETA it’s not 100% and may be related to commenting traffic, i.e., more common when a lot of folks are posting.
WaterGirl
@Ohio Mom: The back arrow issue isn’t just you, and it worked really well before rollout, so I suspect it has to do with cache. But that’s one they definitely need to fix, as far as I’m concerned.
John Revolta
@WaterGirl: I guess I can learn to live with it ;^)
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I hit returns.
WaterGirl
@Adam Lang: Sorry to hear that. That was the one hard “no” we heard from every developer we interviewed before selecting the group do develop the site. They all said “no separate sites for mobile and desktop”.
May I ask whether you use a phone or a tablet? Because a tablet in landscape mode gets you the same thing you see on a computer. Tablets in portrait, and phones, get you the mobile site.
I tried to put everything I thought would be useful on mobile into the hamburger (3 lines top right). If there’s something you would like added in the hamburger that would make it more workable for you, please let me know what that/they would be.
Ruckus
Comments
Don’t show up without 2 manual refreshes about 80% of the time
Don’t show up without 1 manual refresh about 15% of the time.
Show up normally about 5% of the time.
Edit comments
Visual/Text tabs seems random if both or only text shows up
Mostly there on creating, maybe 50/50 on edit
Navigation
Takes 2 back arrows hits If I want to go back to my previous place. And then the number/name is one line above the screen. Every time.
Looks great, works OK if a bit clunky. Would be nice if the above was better.
On an old geezer note – I’m still not used to the nav buttons at the top. Guess it’s just one more thing to learn. Maybe if I make this my new year’s wish/resolution……
O. Felix Culpa
@The Golux: Ditto to this experience. Also Win10/Chrome.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Glad to know that’s behaving the way it should, then, thanks.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: Me too. Intermittent edit boxes; also intermittent need to refresh multiple times to see my comment. Also intermittently get sent up to the top of the post after commenting. I don’t think all three happen together necessarily, though, but I wasn’t always tracking that. Win10/Chrome and Android/Chrome.
Also, sometimes the edit function disappears after editing once, even though there should still be more edit time available.
Scout211
I get TV quite often. I am currently typing into the comment box and it is showing only
visualtext mode. No tabs at all. Currently on my mac running 10.14.6 (Mojave) and the latest ChromeEdit: Now I am editing the comment and both tabs are showing.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: it’s your muscle memory that takes you to the bottom. New muscle memory coming soon, i’m sure. :-)
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa:
okay. now that it’s potentially on your radar, could you send me email or do a site feedback form and let me know if you happen to notice that they DO or DO NOT seem to happen together? thanks
NotMax
Ongoing since day one:
1) Bounce to top upon posting and thence needing multiple refreshes in order to get to and see comment (as well as any others posted in the interim).
2) Back arrow for travel within a thread is determinedly unreliable.
Noticed this past week: Recent comments listings differing on front page versus on comments page. Not a function of any newer comments having been made on B-J, this also intermittently happens if each tab is refreshed as close to simultaneously as possible); eventually they do achieve parity. Impression is that it’s the listing on the comments page which is behind (varies as to how far behind) and has to play catch up.
jeffreyw
testing comments
zhena gogolia
On a laptop with Chrome, I very often have to do the hard refresh in order to see the comment I just posted. The back button doesn’t take me back to where I just was. I keep forgetting to check what the comment number was so I can just scroll back to it because the back button won’t take me there.
For me it feels as if the major annoyance of the previous site (having to put in my e-mail and nym for every comment) has just been replaced by this new annoyance.
O. Felix Culpa
@WaterGirl: Will do! You have a tremendous reservoir of patience and I’m grateful for your work and presence on this site.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
As I read these of course there is a pattern abet a small one, judging by the number/issues of comments.
I’m wondering if it is based upon how privacy/cookies are set up on each of our computers vs what the developers expect? Because we now have more options than we used to, at least on some systems/browsers. Apple for example now gives more control over privacy than it did not all that long ago.
Miss Bianca
@Baud: I have had that issue too! (Safari/MacBook Pro)
zhena gogolia
I like magenta.
И кириллица.
jeffreyw
@The Golux: This seems similar to a problem I’ve encountered. The back arrow often takes me back to a comment that I have made, rather than return me to the bottom of the thread.
zhena gogolia
Hmmm . . . I just added some Cyrillic to comment #37, and it didn’t show up.
zhena gogolia
There’s no edit function on comment #39 so that I can add that after I posted that comment, the Cyrillic showed up.
japa21
Agree with raven at 1. I’m in the minority (I think of one) in that I liked the shadowed block quote box, but I’ll survive without it. Otherwise, I haven’t on any problems on regular or mobile.
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: It’s there now…and the system failed to add a translation. But maybe it’s about magenta? :-p
jeffreyw
@zhena gogolia: I see it in your #37
Baud
Test emoji.
?
?
?
?zhena gogolia
@O. Felix Culpa:
Translation: Cyrillic.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: Bouncing: happens with what frequency? every time?
Recent Comments: what device/browser combination? Any special settings?
O. Felix Culpa
@japa21: I liked the shadowed block quote too, but I’m ok with the quote boxes. Not a hill I was willing to get a flesh wound on.
jeffreyw
So far the behaviors in this thread are as expected. Yay!
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa: What a nice thing to say. Thank you so much!
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: yes it did! :-)
HankP
RSS: I use Sharpreader for RSS and I get the following error:
Error reading URL: The underlying connection was closed: An unexpected error occurred on a send.: Received an unexpected EOF or 0 bytes from the transport stream.
When I run it through feedvalidator.org it says it’s a valid feed but does throw up a bunch of stuff that may cause problems with some readers. Not the end of the world, but I thought I’d let you know.
Baud
Just to be clear, I experience everything under the Comments, Edit Comments, and Navigation headings in the post.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Muscles? What damn muscles? You mean the ones that ache all the damn time?
Memory? What the hell is that? My memory is becoming more geezerish as the days wiz by. Which means I have old ones but making new ones is now actual work. Like walking from the living room towards the bathroom, getting there and wondering why, walking the 8 ft back and remembering………
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: спасибо (according to google)
HankP
RSS: Also FYI it stopped working on 12/9
WaterGirl
@HankP: You’re the person who sent me email, yes? Or are there two of you using Sharpreader?
Scout211
@Scout211:
oopsie! I meant the first time I comment in a thread the comment box only shows the TEXT option, no tabs are shown at all. Then, after posting the comment, both tabs show in both the edit function and throughout the thread.
My original post had it backward, sorry.
Ohio Mom
WaterGirl, using the X as a work-around almost worked. I’ll try fine-tuning my approach.
I know some of my issues are idiosyncratic because this is an old phone (almost three years old and it was an older model when I got it). Eventually I’ll have to get a new phone and I expect that will solve the issues unique to me.
it makes me a little sad to see the general list of issues though because I suspect we might be losing people to frustration. I hope I’m wrong.
P.S. My Nym and email are AWOL today. Oh well, I have lots of experience retyping them in.
Ruckus
@zhena gogolia:
Something non english did for me
Edit, but in #37 not 39
WaterGirl
@Baud: Thanks! Are you mostly/always on an android tablet? If you said so above, i didn’t retain the information.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Most on Android phone. Otherwise on Firefox for Windows.
O. Felix Culpa
@WaterGirl: Now! It happened just now! The comment posted fine (no refreshing needed), but I was bounced up to the top of the post. I then hit the “comment” button at top left to get back down to the end of the comment string. (Win10/Chrome).
WaterGirl
@Ruckus:
I think we all do that one from time to time! You forgot the part where, if you’re in public, you have to slap your head as if to say “what was I thinking?”
jeffreyw
@Scout211:
ditto
same here
win 10 chrome 79
WaterGirl
@O. Felix Culpa:
That’s super helpful. Now I no longer have to worry that the bouncing is part of what happens if the comment doesn’t post right away.
edit: except that someone down thread reported that for him/her, they always happen together.
JPL
Some of the posts especially like the one before this, cause my allergies to act up. Watery eyes are common. Is there a way to fix that?
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Bouncing followed by multiple refreshes occurring about 40% of the time.
The Recent Comments disparity is something noticed only sometime during the past week. Close to 100% positive it wasn’t happening prior to then. No changes to any settings at my end between the weeks before and this past week.
Win 10, Firefox.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
I’m also sometimes on iPad mini.
WaterGirl
@Scout211:
That’s also very helpful. What device/browser combo are you using when this happens?
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Mac desktop running 10.14.6 mojave. Chrome
WaterGirl
@Baud: I presume you would have mentioned it if you notice a difference in behavior between the two devices. But if you happen to notice going forward, that either it makes a difference or it really doesn’t, please let me know? thanks
jeffreyw
I edited my #64 to add browser info. I needed a refresh to see the edit but it didn’t bounce me to the top that time.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Would you be willing to try Safari for a day so you can report back that there is / is not a difference in behavior between the two browsers?
chris
Testing. My new favorite Xmas carol from the Dropkick Murphys.
And the Back button is up to its old tricks again
Also, damn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=241&v=qTx-sdR6Yzk&feature=emb_log
ETA: Twas nice while it lasted. Edit kicked me up to the top of the page. Back down and had to refresh to see comment. I think I jinxed it earlier, sorry.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
The iPad mini doesn’t have the mobile site issues I mentioned in my intial comment. I don’t use it enough to identify any specific issue related to that device.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ruckus: You’ve pretty much have the same issues that I do, with about the same frequency.
I also start moving the mouse down to the bottom of the screen to click the navigation buttons, I also occasionally try to reach for the gear shift on my Prius to put it into a lower gear after having it for almost 3 years. Old habits and all…
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Sure.
Baud
iPad mini test.
ETA: Edit box appears.
ETA 2: took three refreshes to see edit
WaterGirl
@Baud:
That’s very useful information, too, thanks!
CarolPW
PC, Win 10, FF (all with latest updates).
N. I use it a lot, and it always works within a post for a while and then at some point the back arrow takes me somewhere far above the comments I had been reading. If I then stay within the same post it keeps screwing up. If I go to the previous or next post, immediately return to the post where I had been reading comments, and then find where I had stopped, the back arrow works fine again.
I just went to the Xmas cookie post and did 5 trips from a comment to the person they were responding to and back, then 2 trips from a comment to the person they were responding to and from that person to the person they were responding to and then back twice and it worked, did 5 more trips one step up and back and then 3 trips with two steps up and back and it worked fine.
Then went to the morning thread and did similar messing about to see if having tweets in it mattered and it didn’t.
It happens to me daily, and sometimes more than once a day, but obviously it doesn’t happen when I am paying attention, but only when it is a pain in the butt to find out where I was!
Works like a charm for me otherwise but I rarely comment.
ETA: Saw my comment instantly, edit available, both V&T tabs there.
ETA2: Had to do a refresh to see the edit, both V&T still there.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Thank you! Either way it turns out, it will be super helpful if you send me email or submit your results through site feedback.
WaterGirl
@CarolPW:
Helpful! That says “cache” to me.
TS (the original)
Windows 10 (had to upgrade from 7) Chrome
Commenting
A, B and E appear to be the same problem. If bounce to the top after commenting Comment doesn’t show. If refresh via refresh option (sometimes multiple times needed) when comment shows so does edit comment. If refresh via browser, comment shows but no edit comment.
If comment shows immediately, no Bounce to top & Edit comment shows.
Most recently comment has usually shown immediately.
Edit Comments
Have no had a problem with this
Navigation
Back arrow works until a link is missed. i.e
At #45 link to #21, back arrow takes you to #45
Then at #77 link to #32, back arrow takes you to #77
Then at #90 link to #44, scroll to #120 and link to #50
Back arrow takes you to #90 not #120 & then its all mixed up. Exit & re-enter the thread resets it all.
Others
Have not had any of the other issues mentioned (don’t use RSS feed)
Baud
Good riddance
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Yeah, as Cole’s tweet noted, he’s got a Trump like spray tan; he’ll feel more at home there.
WaterGirl
I added an update up top to say that I’m going to keep checking back on this thread throughout the weekend, so input will be included from everyone who posts by 7am on Monday morning.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I don’t read his tweets. Thanks.
Yarrow
Commenting
A. Posted comments don’t always show up as soon as you post them, until a manual refresh.
Yes, happens to me. Randomly. No obvious pattern
B. Bounce to the top of the thread after submitting a comment.
Yes. That happens when a comment doesn’t appear. If my comment appears then the thread is at that comment. If it doesn’t appear I’m bounced to the top.
E. Edit Comment is not always available after posting comment.
Yes. Like the above two it’s intermittent but happens often enough that it’s a noticeable thing. Maybe 40-50% of the time? Not sure. I just figure it’s a FYWP feature.
Are A, B, and E all different ways of describing the same issue? Are they related in some way?
No, this is not a way of describing the same thing. A and B are related. I get bounced to the top of the thread if my comment doesn’t appear after posting. Edit not being available seems to be random. It does seem to appear after a refresh sometimes.
Do B and C only happen when your comment does appear immediately after posting?
Bounce to the top of the thread only happens when comment doesn’t appear. Not sure what C is, but if it’s the No Edit Option, then no, that happens when the comment does appear. Also when it doesn’t and you have to refresh to get it. It’s both.
A related issue – I’ve edited a comment and the edit shows up, then upon a refresh of the page it reverts to the original (wrong) version. Then another refresh (or two or three) and it shows up properly. It’s very difficult to edit a comment because I don’t know what version I’m editing.
2liberal
posted comments don’t show up without a manual refresh or two. Chrome under windows 10
WaterGirl
@Baud: Good riddance to bad rubbish, for sure.
TS (the original)
Forgot – I have had another problem where sometimes links (either to a person or an external link) don’t work when I enter a thread (just some, not all!). It looks like a link but no link activated. This is fixed by refreshing the thread.
Many thanks for all your work WaterGirl.
Raven
So all these goober motherfuckers HATE the NFL but numbnuts signs and executive order allowing academy grads to fo to the NFL before their military commitment? WTF-K?
James E Powell
@NotMax:
Same with me. Using chrome on a macbook air.
WaterGirl
@TS (the original):
That’s really interesting. When that happens, is it just a single link, say in a fairly recent comment? or is it that if it happens with one link, it happens with a bunch of them at the same time, until a refresh? What device/browser combination does that happen on?
James E Powell
@Raven:
It is well-established that they don’t make any sense or want to make any sense. Trying to figure out what or how they think only produces agita.
Yarrow
Edit Comments
TV. Text / Visual tabs aren’t consistently and reliably there.
Is this related to creating a comment? Editing a comment? Or both?
I have no idea what this is related to. Sometimes they’re there. Sometimes they’re not. If they’re not both there then it’s just the Text tab that is there. I’m fine with that as it’s my preferred tab.
When do they go missing? Do they stay missing? Is it a now you see them, now you don’t kind of thing?
I don’t know when they go missing. It seems random. They don’t stay missing because eventually–maybe another day–they’ll come back. It can be “now you see them now you don’t.” Like, you can type a comment and both tabs are there. Post it and realize you need to edit it and only the Text tab is there. I think for the most part it’s the Visual tab that vanishes but I could be wrong and there have been sometimes where the Text option is not there.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Thank you! All that detail is super helpful.
This is very strange:
It almost seems like when you refresh it finds the cached version of the page that it loaded BEFORE you made your comment, then refreshing eventually gets you the latest version of the page. Again, all this detail is very helpful, thanks.
edit: oops, but I need your device/browser combination, thanks.
Yarrow
Navigation
N. Back Arrow doesn’t take you back through a series of steps, as it should
If you have noticed any patterns, please share what you have noticed.
This issue reminds me of the old site. You can reliably click on an @nym and then use the Back button to go back to the original comment. Once. If you try to click @nym and then @nym again etc. to follow a conversation between commenters and at the end you want to use the Back button several times to get back to the comment that started it all you are most likely not going to be able to do that. You’ll end up at some random comment and the easiest way to get out of it is to go to the top of the thread, click the Title and scroll down to find the comment that started it all.
You might be able to do more than one @nym and then Back successfully. Like, say two or possibly three but that’s hit or miss. Anything more than that is completely random almost all the time.
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: I’ve given it before but it’s Chrome and Win10.
NotMax
Mentioned previously but it would really, really, really be appreciated if the color for visited links didn’t override browser settings. Link colors the same for both visited and unvisited links since the rollout.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Yeah, I seem to retain that information for some people but definitely not everyone. thanks.
emjayay
The comment system here is just basically awful.
No up or down voting possible. Particularly when I read a really good comment I want to give it an up vote, whatever you want to call it. The count of up or down votes gives interesting information to the reader. Oh look, lots of other people agree or disagree. No need to write a comment “Good comment! Totally agree!” or the opposite (which is also pointless anyway because it might be three feet down below the original comment).
No Reply to a post without scrolling to the bottom of the comments. It should be at the top.
No way to arrange comments (Newest or Oldest)
And worst of all, replies are at the bottom of the comments instead of stringing after the comment being replied to. So no discussions possible. Replies are divorced from the original comment. Clicking on the original commenter’s name sends you somewhere above and you lose your place.
If you want to see a commenting system that actually works just look at most blogs, which use Disqus.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: We have made a number of changes that people have requested, and a number that you have requested personally. I’m sorry to disappoint you, but the design is pretty well set for now.
Mary G
I have the having to refresh to see comments maybe 50% of the time, and the back arrow is unreliable for navigating between comments, but I have developed the habit of noting the comment number, so I know where to go.
Still having trouble getting used to not hitting return twice for a new paragraph.
Still love the speediness of it all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WaterGirl: I’ve seen editing a comment, press post comment and then the comment with edits not showing; in that case it’s a cache issue(Win10/Chrome).
jeffreyw
@emjayay:
You are spelling your nym wrong.
raven
@emjayay: Start your own and quit sweatin my girl.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl
I often walk from one end of the shop, to my tool box, forget the list of things I need and pickup one tool, go 1/3 the way back and remember, go back to tool box, forget one thing……
If I slapped my forehead each time I did that, I would have bled to death long ago because I’d forget which hand had the tool I did get and with my luck….. Just like long ago I learned to reject the notion of putting your foot out to slow what you dropped before it hit the floor. Putting your foot out to slow down a 20 lb of steel block is really not a wise idea. 70 lb is way, way out of the question.
suezboo
WaterGirl, you did say you wanted kudos as well as problems, right ? I must heartily applaud you for not only your professional skills but your almost incredible patience and willingness to collaborate with and accept complaints from as rabid a pack of howling jackals as I have ever seen.
If Patience is a virtue, Heaven awaits your arrival.
Ruckus
@emjayay:
Are you trying to be funny? Cause you failed. Miserably.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Okay, although I fail to grok the hows and whys leading to a decision to abandon standard web practice (unvisited links in one color, visited links in another color) being a Good Thing.
raven
@Ruckus: I can remember shit from 50 years ago like it was yesterday but I can’t find my car at the Y!
geg6
My only issues are A and B under commenting. It happens both on my iPhone and my desktop (Firefox). Not every time but more often than not. Probably 80% of the time. Otherwise, kudos to all!
Mousebumples
Things are generally working well for me in my lurking. I did have a case where a comment didn’t appear after 2 refreshes, so I ended up double posting. (it was an arts and crafts thread – in response to something Watergirl said about cross stitch, I think?)
Also have had occasional return of the bottom of page ad. Not sure if that’s intended but I thought the original plan was that those shouldn’t be back with the redesign so I wanted to mention it.
The rss is working great for me with Feedly. Didn’t even need to re subscribe to get the author on the post synopses with the recent updates. ?
Duane
@Ruckus: Now I’ve forgotten what I wanted to say and can’t get back to your comment. //
TS (the original)
@WaterGirl: W10 – Chrome
I’ll have to see if I can get it happening again – I don’t think it is every link, but I’m not sure as I simply refresh & then the link works. I notice it mainly when I see a reply to a comment & want to go back to the original comment – the nym link doesn’t work. After refresh, it’s fine
geg6
@emjayay:
If this blog goes to disqus or nested comments, I’m outta here. No fucking way.
Yarrow
@Mousebumples:
Me too. On mobile it’s a complete hassle. Between the top ad taking half the screen and the bottom ad covering another quarter of the screen there’s almost nothing visible except a bit of the blue header.
Yarrow
@geg6: Yep. I can’t decide if someone requesting up/down voting, threaded comments and Disqus is just trying to be funny or completely unfamiliar with John Cole’s blog.
WaterGirl
@emjayay:
If you want to reply to a comment someone else has made, simply hit Reply. That gives you a popup box.
If you want to make a comment that is not a reply to someone else, hit COMMENT in the white bar the is always visible at the top, and it takes you directly to the comment box.
If you want Disqus or another system that requires a login, you will never find that at Balloon Juice, nor will you find up or down voting. It’s the way we like it here. Oh, and we pretty much think threaded comments are the devil. I’m sorry that our preferences don’t suit you!
Yarrow
Okay, here’s an example. At 118 I posted a comment. It appeared but no Edit is available. I replied to geg6’s comment at 117, which I saw after I posted mine at 118. That comment didn’t appear at all and I got sent to the top of the page. Refresh and now that comment (119) is there but there is no Edit option. Still no Edit for 118 either. Sometimes after a refresh Edit appears but it didn’t this time.
Edit: I posted this comment and now Edit is available for ALL THREE of the comments – 118, 119 and 121. It’s really weird.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Yep, I agree. I may have even said the identical thing up thread somewhere, but I’m too lazy to look. :-)
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: I decided it wasn’t snark because he/she didn’t know about the reply and comment buttons, but I’ve been wrong before, as we well know!
WaterGirl
@Mousebumples: Please tell me more about the bottom of the page ad. Is it autoplay or jumping or covering something up? John is trying for only well-behaved ads…
edit: happy to know you didn’t have to subscribe again to see the author name.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Hmm, you get a 5-minute window for 5 minutes, for every comment you have posted where the 5-minute clock hasn’t run out. From the time stamps, it looks like you might have just squeaked by with the first time stamp ending in 4 and the last one ending in 9. ?
edit: I believe the craziness before that is all related to cache, which the developers will have to further address.
jeffreyw
@WaterGirl: You are giving it too much benefit of the doubt.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: They hit the trifecta! Hat trick!
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: I can tell you what I experience. It’s a relatively narrow band ad at the bottom of the page. It’s not on the page; it’s on top of it. You can click the X to close it but it’s so small that on mobile I find I have to enlarge it quite a bit to properly hit the X.
Currently on my phone it’s showing an ad by what looks like an ad company called Proper. The ad itself seems to be for Verizon 5G but is rotating through three screens, so not a static ad.
Currently it doesn’t take a quarter of the screen. More like about an eighth. But between that and the half screen ad at the top there’s not much except the blue header visible.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
All that was missing was pining for avatars and blinking text.
:)
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: @Mousebumples: Screen captures from both of you – that show the ad in action – would be exceedingly helpful.
You can either email me at the WaterGirl address or you can Report a Problem (under site feedback) which now lets you attach screen captures. :-)
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Sorry, I didn’t quite understand your comment. All I can say is there were no Edit options for the first two comments, despite refreshing the page and/or posting a second comment. Upon posting the third comment I got the Edit bar for ALL THREE comments at the same time.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: I laughed out loud!
edit: if 3 is a hat trick, what is 5 called?
Amir Khalid
I get issues A, B, E, TV, N, and RC. RC doesn’t update until my comment appears.
Sab
@geg6: Me too. I won’t even read my local newspaper on-line (which I pay actual money to subscribe to) because they want me to log on to read the comments.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: Sorry I wasn’t clear. I was trying to say that having all of the edit windows showing at the end was actually correct, since you should have the edit window going on every comment that was created less than 5 minutes previously.
The times were 6:34, 6:35 and 6:39, so all could be correctly showing at the same time. The craziness before that was due to cache, which we need for speed.
But the cache setup has to be fine tuned because the comment system needs to behave consistently.
A Ghost To Most
Congratulations on the rollout
P.S. I see the Poltroon pie has a place of honor.
AMF.
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Ah, I understand now. Yes, I should have had Edit for all of them because each comment was within the 5 minute window. The four minute difference between comment 2 and 3 probably allowed the cache to catch up so my Edit bar also showed up.
This issue is quite intermittent. No understandable rhyme or reason. Regular commenters will probably get used it as a quirk but occasional commenters will be very frustrated when their comment doesn’t show or they don’t get an edit option.
J R in WV
Someone who claims to like Disqis?
Hmmm!?
And a Nym I don’t recall ever seeing before… Comrade, how is weather in St Petersburg today? Cold and dry with loose snow blowing on the ice on canals? Da, very good!!
WaterGirl
@suezboo: Wow, that’s high praise, indeed! Thank you so much.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
A cinco de pie-o?
J R in WV
LEss humorous reply to WaterGirl:
A. Posted comments don’t always show up as soon as you post them, until a manual refresh — this happens pretty often, perhaps 20% of the time
B. Bounce to the top of the thread after submitting a comment — this happens more often, perhaps 40% of the time.
E. Edit Comment is not always available after posting comment — this happens about 40% of the time.
Are A, B, and E all different ways of describing the same issue? Are they related in some way? I can’t tell if there is a relationship.
Do B and C only happen when your comment does appear immediately after posting? i think not.
Edit Comments
TV. Text / Visual tabs aren’t consistently and reliably there — mostly both there, I don’t use the Text option that often now that we have the WYSIWYG functionality.
Is this related to creating a comment? Editing a comment? Or both? I dunno…
When do they go missing? Do they stay missing? Is it a now you see them, now you don’t kind of thing?
Navigation
N. Back Arrow doesn’t take you back through a series of steps, as it should — This is one of the most annoying issues I experience, sometimes the back arrow will take me through a long series of former locations, sometimes it is randomly placing me at a random spot between the original location and where I wanted to go.
If you have noticed any patterns, please share what you have noticed.
Thanks for your patience with many of the local Jackals talking about perfection — ignore that dork who wanted Disqis.
WaterGirl
@Yarrow: I don’t consider all this weirdness acceptable, and I know the developers will fix this.
This was one of the first lines in the specs:
Noncarborundum
Here’s something I’ve encountered in recent days, but not today, so I don’t know if it’s still an issue. Fairly consistently, if I read down to the end of comments and hit the “refresh” to see if any more comments had been posted, the refreshed screen would be scrolled up about 10 comments. For example, if comment #56 was on the screen we then I hit “refresh”, I would find myself looking at comment #46 after the refresh and would have to manually scroll down to get back to where I’d been. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else report this behavior, and as I say, it’s not happening now, so I don’t know if it needs to be taken seriously. Chrome on Samsung Galaxy S10.
WaterGirl
@Noncarborundum: That can happen on threads with embedded tweets. On refresh, the page lines up where it’s supposed to, and then the embedded tweets fill in, and you end up slightly off the mark.
We love our embedded tweets here, and there’s no way good way to control how tweets behave. Why do I say “no good way”? Since we can’t control the tweets, the only other option would be to slow the way the rest of the page loads so the tweets don’t come in late, and that would be a terrible idea.
There are no embedded tweets on this post, so it makes sense that it wouldn’t be happening at the moment.
FelonyGovt
All seems fine for me now. Overwritten comments seem to have gone away.
WaterGirl
@FelonyGovt: Oh, good! Happy to hear that. Hopefully the small adjustment made by the developers did the trick on the overwritten comments related to the ads.
debbie
I get A, B, and E. They are not the same issue; they don’t all happen every time and they don’t always happen all together. I’ve had to refresh (either via my browser or the button at the top, or some mysterious combination of the two) as often as 7 times to see my comment or to get the edit box. Sometimes I bounce back to the top of the page, sometimes somewhere in the middle.
I also have issues with the tabs not showing up every time.
I haven’t noticed any scrambling, etc.
@Ohio Mom:
I get that on my iPad Mini. I type the first letter and the comment box pops up, and then stays up. Sometimes I have to fix where that first letter is, sometimes not.
debbie
@Raven:
Can he even do that? If he can, will the generals take it without protest?
WaterGirl
@HankP: Are you related to Jennie? I just went back and looked, and that’s who reported exactly what you are reporting: issues with SharpReader AND it stopped working for the site on 12/9.
If you are not one and the same person, I wonder if SharpReader might be having an issue?
WaterGirl
@JPL: I missed your comment in real time. I have that issue too, sometimes. It was particularly bad last night when I was going through old posts looking for greennotGreen comments that could be included in the In Memoriam section of the calendar. So many tears!
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Based on what you wrote here, I took the liberty of going back to your original comment and using strike on “visual” and adding “text” instead. That way we won’t confuse ourselves when we look back at this thread on Monday.
dnfree
On iPhone and iPad, I have navigation issues going back. In the old system if I was reading comments, a single back click got me to the front page. If I commented, it took two clicks, one back to the comment screen and the second back to the front page. Now a back click without commenting may take several tries before getting back to the front page. The more comments there are, it seems the more clicks to get back. If I hold down the back arrow to see history, there will be numerous occurrences of the post page and at the bottom also several occurrences of the front page. Something causes extra entries in the history.
WaterGirl
@Ohio Mom:
There are only two reasons why those should be AWOL: 1) if you don’t allow cookies on your device, or 2) you came to the site in “private” mode, or whatever your browser calls that.
Are you or were you set up in either of those ways the time before you came to BJ and had to re-enter your nym and email?
WaterGirl
@Ohio Mom:
I would like to think that people wouldn’t give up on the site just yet, since it’s obvious (I hope!) that we are trying to get everything resolved. A new site always has kinks that have to be worked out.
WaterGirl
@TS (the original): If/when you notice a pattern, please send email to the watergirl account or use the Site Feedback form. thanks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a lack of fresh threads– is that related to the new format?
(and I now predict three new threads within the next thirty minutes)
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Did someone say Kinks?
:)
WaterGirl
@A Ghost To Most:
That flew right over my head.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and on topic, since i don’t really have any issues or know enough to complain, let me echo suezboo
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Edit Comment is flaky but I’m not sure I have enough repeatable data to describe the problem precisely. An experience this afternoon is typical (this was in Safari on iOS).
But you see all the “I think” and “as I recall”. I’m not doing very rigorous experimentation here.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I suspect it might be related to the upcoming holiday. :-) But now that you’ve said that, there will surely be a gaggle of new threads, all at the same time.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Compare to our blog host, who has a noted low toleration for feedback from jackals. At times the bar is less than zero in fact: he’s gone on some epic rants just in the anticipation of feedback.
Come for the politics, stay for the epic rants.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@WaterGirl: St Swithin’s Day does seem to sneak up on one every year, as my Aunt Helga used to say
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I appreciate the echo!
After my second reading, I found myself thinking that she must write a helluva letter of recommendation. She probably has people lining up on her doorstep.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: Just a State of Confusion.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Still helpful, though!
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Thanks! When I realized my error, the edit window had already closed.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: That’s why Cole and i make such a good pair. I’m terrible at the things John is good at, and vice versa.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
An iPhone issue: When I reply to a comment, the popup box on the iPhone (Safari) does not have focus for scrolling. The safest thing is to close the box while I can still get to the X, and type in the main window. Otherwise if I go ahead and compose some text, I end up in a state where I can’t scroll up to the X or down to the Post button. Instead I see the main window scrolling behind the popup.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WaterGirl: Here’s one that just happened…Clicked on “@Jim, Foolish Literalist” in your comment, took me to Jim’s comment, hit the back button and I got taken to @NotMax‘s comment about the Kinks.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: In defense of John, though… we joke about sending Cole email, especially in all caps, but I think he gets a boatload of that kind of email all the time, and after 18 years I’d be pretty tired of that, too.
We are truly lucky that John didn’t tell us all to go to hell years ago. Okay, he does tell us to go to hell sometimes, but he doesn’t mean it for real.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This time of year, I always tell myself what a coworker told me years ago.
HeleninEire
Sorry if this is OT. Watching last night’s Chris Hayes. Michael Moore was on and was OK. But going to commercial Chris just said “We’ll be back with Connie Schultz and her husband Sherrod Brown.”
YAY Chris.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I am more familiar with that one!
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I am not familiar with this term, can you tell me what it means?
WaterGirl
@HeleninEire:
That’s awesome! (But I don’t think I could watch Michael Moore.)
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: this time Reply worked, but sometimes I get a string of symbols and the cursor is in front, instead of behind. Working from an iPad. The site looks great! Thanks so much.
Captain Sunshine
Long time lurker, and former commenter from way back. Someone else was using the same online name I do for a while here, but I haven’t seen them recently, so I’ll use it here again.
I like the site remodel. The only thing I’ve noticed is that on my Android tablets, the page will load 75% to 80%, according to the loading bar, and then freeze up for 5 to 10 seconds before loading the rest of the way. This is on both Firefox and Chrome. And the whole browser freezes, not just the page. Maybe this is the ads not loading quickly and not a problem with the site, but it’s consistent. I don’t know how to pull any logs, but I’m willing to do the legwork if someone shows/tells me how.
WaterGirl
@Lapassionara: You are most welcome! What does this mean?
I get the “working from an iPad” part, but the rest I don’t understand. Do you know how to get a screen capture on your iPad? That would be super helpful.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@HeleninEire:
Funny, he has the same name as the Senator from Ohio. //
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@WaterGirl: I’m using “having focus” meaning the window that is actively listening.
The popup seems to have focus for what I type. Characters appear in the comment box in the front window.
But when I slide my finger up and down to scroll, it appears to be the window behind the popup that is responding to that action. It appears to have the focus for gestures, at least the sliding gesture.
WaterGirl
@Captain Sunshine: I will pass that on to the developers, and I can get back to you with any questions. If that works for you, please send email to the WaterGirl account at balloon-juice.com or you can submit that to site feedback and I can get back to you that way.
P.S. Welcome back!
Major Major Major Major
this happens to me all the time.
WaterGirl
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I don’t use my phone enough on the site to be able to clearly picture what you mean by scrolling in that context. I don’t think I have ever needed to scroll while typing a comment, but that’s probably because I would rather drill holes in metal than comment from a phone. :-)
But I do have an iPhone and Safari, so I will try that tomorrow and get back to you if I have followup questions.
HeleninEire
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Right?? He is no one and she is a super model. //
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Interesting! I presume you are logged into WordPress most (or all) of the time?
edit: what device/browser combination are you using when this happens?
edit 2: I presume this means the you get the popup window, but it doesn’t show @nym for the person you replied to? If you close the popup and hit reply again, is there one @nym in the popup window, or two?
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: always logged in. Safari on iPhone 8+ iOS 13, safari on desktop (two different MacOS versions). Don’t really access the site with other browsers.
regarding “edit 2”: yes; either 0 or 1.
TaMara (HFG)
The site has been down (same screen info I sent you a month ago) several times a day for long periods. I’m never sure for how long because after 5 minutes of trying to get to the site, I go on to other things.
dnfree
Ad on bottom of page, iPhone 11. I got a screenshot but can’t figure out how to copy it to this comment. Paste doesn’t seem to work.
Major Major Major Major
@TaMara (HFG): I’ve also seen some long random downtimes, with a Cloudflare “the server is down” page.
Gin & Tonic
@TaMara (HFG): Coming late to this thread, but there are pretty clearly issues with Cloudflare several times a day. Last week I got a couple of their error messages, but more often it’s refresh, refresh, refresh, no changes, then all of a sudden refresh and there’s a half-dozen comments.
TaMara (HFG)
@Ohio Mom: I’ve stopped commenting a lot, but I just checked the back feature and, yup, it’s random.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Interesting! I use my Mac and Safari exclusively, logged in, and that never happens to me. Not once since they fixed the problem in the first couple of days after the rollout. I wonder if it’s a setting thing?
WaterGirl
@dnfree: Thanks for getting the screen shot. You can send it to the WaterGirl email account at balloon-juice.com as an email attachment or you can use the site feedback form (in the sidebar on a computer) and select Report A Problem – which now allows you to include file attachments.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: The problems are being reported by Cloudflare. The 520 and 524 cloud flare errors typically mean that the site is down. The refresh issue in order to see
yourcomments is a cache issue.Gin & Tonic
@emjayay:
True. Just can’t be done. Replying to someone’s comment just loses the thread, and nobody else has the slightest idea what I’m talking about.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
What the fuck are you talking about?
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: It’s not “refresh to see my comment” – it’s that there’s a (fairly) long lag sometimes, when I refresh multiple times and see no updates, then at some random interval I’ll refresh and see a whole bunch of comments, even with timestamps from a few minutes ago, so it’s not like they all were posted simultaneously.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: I have no idea.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: Huh?
Major Major Major Major
@emjayay: this is a great troll. Maybe a little obvious.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Good correction, thanks I was sloppy with my wording. I went back and edited my comment for clarity.
It’s definitely a cache issue, and I know it’s frustrating. It needs to be addressed. I’m attempting to get as much detail as possible because that should help in making the necessary adjustments.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Can you remind me which device/browser combination you use? If you use more than one, are there any differences between them, with regards to these issues?
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: fortunately, cache invalidation/management is only like the third hardest thing in software engineering. (I feel your pain.)
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
I just had a most strange situation with the site. It may have nothing to do with the site or it may be all the sites fault, who knows?
Anyway I was trying to write something and the reply box was on top and I could not type in the box or delete anything, the site just did not respond. When I tried clicking the X to close the box it inserted the entire thread into the reply box. And had no X that I could use to close the box. Had to just kill the tab with BJ and reload the site. All seems back to normal.
My thought is that any load is broken up to smaller pieces so that the load is faster. Part of why I say this is that if I use the Safari back button I have approx 100 loads showing and to back up one at a time…… This would also explain why the site takes 2 backs to get to back to the reference comment and the inability to refresh and get back to the point one left. What I’m saying is that the cookies and the load are not in sync – just a possibility.
Gin & Tonic
@Raven:
This just NFL, or any pro sports league?
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Mostly Chrome/Windows from a desktop PC. I’ll try to keep better notes.
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: Yep. It’s a major balancing act. We need cache for speed, but we also need reliability. We clearly have not hit the sweet spot yet.
I would love to hear what your #1 and #2 are. If you think of it, you can tell me in an email message sometime.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Chrome seems to hold on to cache more than the other browsers, and it absolutely holds on to it longer than Safari does. I’m not exactly sure where Firefox falls in that mix – I think Firefox is the devil, and I don’t use it.
edit: Please let me know if you start to see a pattern.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
someone pointed out recently that the President of the United States can invite virtually anyone in the world to dinner, who would refuse (for the next year or so, I would but he wouldn’t invite me)? Any movie can be shown to him, in his house. And then there’s the whole matter of running the country, North Korea, ISIS, strategizing with his lawyers. He has I think a dozen or so grandchildren, a young teenage son he could spend some of that fabled “quality time” with. His daughter is at Georgetown Law, not too far. This is how he’s spending his time.
Commiecast. He thinks that’s clever.
I’ve often wondered that he never seems to comment on MSNBC, but he went after Debbie Dingell today following her appearance on it. I guess there’s some room on the old SuperTivo and some time on his hands. And is it true, as someone observed, that he hasn’t played golf since that totally normal trip to the hospital to get a head start on his annual physical?
Yarrow
@Raven: Speaking of the game, this happened:
Pictures and video in the thread.
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: There’s an ancient joke that the two hardest things in software are: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.
There are probably a million variations.
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I thought I saw that he played golf over Thanksgiving.
WaterGirl
@Gin & Tonic: Ha!
I appreciate the twist of “off-by-one” errors.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@WaterGirl:
I knew there was a reason I liked you.
WaterGirl
In case anyone missed it, there are some good comments from General Stuck, efgoldman, Schlemazel and others in last night’s thread.
https://balloon-juice.com/2019/12/13/general-stuck-comments-in-no-particular-order/#comment-7513208
planetjanet
@Yarrow: I also get the Proper ad occasionally. It was the thing I most wanted to see gone with the new site. I am using Chrome on an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy 6) It can interfere with some buttons along the bottom of the screen. The Washington Post also seems to get hit by Proper.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: We should have a thread sometime totally devoted to discussion of browser preferences – we could call it Browser Wars. You know, just in case Mac vs. PC, and some of the usual flame-producing topics can’t get people worked up enough.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: there’s an old joke I like…
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Pineapple on pizza? The proper martini?
Another Scott
@WaterGirl:
Just to be clear, in these threads when you talk about a “cache issue” you mean a server-side cache issue, and not some sort of client (browser) caching issue. Correct?
My issues with the new site are well covered above (Chrome on mid-2012 MBP), so I won’t add to the list. Thanks again for all of your efforts in trying to make the software as good as it can be and keeping us ungrateful louts happy!
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@planetjanet: I just got a screen capture by email. I can’t imagine why you guys think this would be a problem. // (That’s the symbol for the snark tag, right?)
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: I don’t know how to do a screen capture. If you send instructions, that would help.
Let me describe it this way. I hit reply, and instead of your nym in blue type with an underline coming up in the comment box, there is a < symbol, with some text and then a > symbol. And the cursor is in front of the <. This has happened more than once, but blessedly, not tonight.
again, many thanks
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major:
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: heh. they forgot eventual consistency!
WaterGirl
@Lapassionara: You are most welcome!
Press and hold the power button and hit the home button. You’ll hear a sound that tells you the screen has been captured.
edit: I recommend trying it ahead of time so you will know exactly what to do if/when that weirdness happens again.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Lapassionara: Sounds like your reply is coming up in text mode.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: good god…!
People are still buying diamonds??
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: ok. Next time I see the issue, I will send you a screen shot.
WaterGirl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Good call!
@Lapassionara: Is this what it looks like?
<a href=”#comment-7514252″>@?BillinGlendaleCA</a>:
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: I will probably go to hell for saying this, but if a phone was my primary access point for Balloon Juice, I would install an ad blocker and throw money in the kitty for John.
edit: But I have very little tolerance for ads.
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: Yes! And then the comment window goes up, and I cannot see what I am typing, like just now. If I try to scroll, I scroll the side, but not the comment window.
joel hanes
@Ohio Mom:
<em>I can’t leave a comment after hitting Reply</em>
That happens to me with some frequency.
Workaround: hit the [TAB] key repeatedly until the composition pane appears.
ETA: also, as this comment demonstrates, HTML tags that are manually entered in the initial composition of a comment are not effective, and are treated as text.
Lapassionara
I meant site instead of side. I could not see what I was typing. Again, iPad, safari.
Lapassionara
@WaterGirl: you are the best!
WaterGirl
@Lapassionara: Go Bill! For catching on to what you were describing. What you want to do when that happens is click on the “Visual” tab that you can see in the image below.
WaterGirl
@Lapassionara: I think all the credit for this one goes to Bill, who figured out what you were describing. I just pasted in the example. :-)
jeffreyw
@WaterGirl: In a speed v reliability balancing act I would vote to err on the side of reliability, although I will admit that neither the actual upsides nor the downsides are known to me. Are we talking milliseconds, or what?
Another Scott
@joel hanes: Unfortunately, the Comment window defaults to Visual mode. One has to get in the habit of clicking on the Text tab before furiously typing if one enters any HTML that doesn’t use the buttons.
Cheers,
Scott.
Major Major Major Major
@WaterGirl: I actually had no adblocker on my phone until balloon-juice started running Taboola ads.
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Yep, that’s pretty much what it looks like. On my phone the bottom ad is smaller. It’s bigger on Kindle. Still a total pain. The top ad takes up about half the real estate on the screen.
WaterGirl
@joel hanes: @Ohio Mom:
Is there a TAB key on a phone?
edit: Would a tech thread for BJ phone users be of any use to you guys who use phones to access BJ? You guys could share tips?
WaterGirl
@Major Major Major Major: At least Taboola is out of the picture. John swears we will not have Taboola. Thank dog.
Another Scott
@Yarrow: I don’t think I’ve ever read Balloon-Juice without an adblocker (UBlock Origin on Chrome on desktops, Brave on my Android phone). I send JC money every year, and just today set up a $25 monthly PayPal contribution for the site.
If one has the means to make a contribution, B-J (and just about everywhere else) works much better without the ads. It’s unfortunate (sites do need ways to make money), but ads (especially on phones) are too disruptive otherwise. IMHO.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@jeffreyw: Without cache we would be looking at a site that is much, much slower. We’re not at the either-or point; there is fine tuning still to be done.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott:
Thanks for that! For what it’s worth, i am in complete agreement with what you wrote.
JWR
I don’t comment frequently enough to notice many commenting patterns, (aside from those already mentioned), but the “Previous Post” flyout wing always obscures the text of the post when I’m on a particular thread, (not on the main b-j page), and playing with screen / font size has no effect, meaning that on my device, (all up to date Win 10 plus the “of the Devil” browser), I’m always reading around the left flyout.
Aside from this very minor inconvenience, job well done!
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: And some people prefer the Visual mode, which is why we have both.
I just wrote to the developers and asked if there might be a way to store that preference in cookies, for each individual device. I suspect that if that were the case, they would have done it already, but I figure it’s worth asking.
Another Scott
@JWR: I was having that issue as well, but adjusting the text size on Chrome (via Ctrl-minus) does fix it. Is using a different browser an option?
One minor annoyance I have on some desktops is the popup Text Search window in the Chrome browser often obscures the Up/Down/Previous/Next buttons at the top. It’s a function of the monitor resolution/scaling. It’s not a huge deal, most of the time, but is just another thing to have to work around sometimes.
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Understood, and agreed. But muscle memory is a powerful thing!
Thanks for trying to make us all happy.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@JWR: Glad to hear it!
Weeks ago, the wings were changed to be mostly transparent, so they should no longer be obscuring the text. If it is, then I wonder if you have a setting somewhere that is interfering with that.
If I make my window small enough that the wings cover the text, I can still read it perfectly.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: Even though I know it’s impossible, I am foolish enough to try. :-)
J R in WV
Seems like some good feedback this evening. I like the IT jokes. You can have any two of these three things (1) fast; (2) good; (3) cheap.
Some of the things being described seem very odd to me, I don’t blame commenters for having trouble describing what is wrong at all~!~
Why do folks hate Firefox? I’ve been using it for years! Even before i retired at work, unless I was formal testing when we used (shudder) Internet Explorer, now long gone. Chrome is OK, I mostly use it on my Android tablet, which is getting old.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott:
Is that another “helpful” thing that Chrome does, like the status bar? The status bar in Chrome obscured the X that closes the popup box, so the developers were able to pin that to show up lower. Unfortunately, that can’t be done with the white navigation bar.
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: Food fight!
JWR
@Another Scott: Oh, I could, and have tried, using another browser, but the ability in Firefox to set up the old-school File menu, which is how I access bookmarks, and which menu option I couldn’t find the last time I tried Chrome, keeps me going back to FF.
WaterGirl
@JWR: Are you unable to read the text through the mostly transparent wings? I am trying to figure out whether you are unable to read the text through them or whether you are able to do that, but you still find it annoying.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Pfeh. Chrome (the branded browser, not the kernel upon which all the ensuing Google tinselry has been glued) is a polite way of saying clusterf*ck.
HeleninEire
@Baud:
@Gin & Tonic:
@Omnes Omnibus:
You boys make me LOL.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: See me at #255.
Another Scott
@JWR: FF is good. It’s funny that it won’t let you get the main text away from the (collapsed) fly-out buttons.
Just for completeness, Chrome hides a bunch of stuff under the 3-button menu on the upper right, More Tools… You might need to install an Extension to easily do what you want (I’m on my MBP at the moment and can’t check), but I think the PC version of Chrome lets you expose the File, etc., menu and Bookmarks pretty easily.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Feel it’s safe ground to presume we can come together in the spirit of good will to impugn Bing.
;)
JWR
@WaterGirl: Yes, the wings are almost completely transparent for me, which is great! It’s just that having the text obscured at all, right in the middle of the screen, is a very minor bit of an inconvenience. I’ve tried changing the font and screen size, but changing my screen resolution, (went from a 28″ to a 20″ monitor. Ugh!), is not an option for me. But no biggee about the wings. I can deal. ;)
WaterGirl
@NotMax: What is this Bing you speak of? :-)
WaterGirl
@JWR: Thanks, that helps me understand. I presume you have tried making the BJ window as big as possible, and then doing Command minus (or Control minus) once to make the print a bit smaller and leave more white space around the edges of the page?
Between screen size and browsers and vision and people with cheaters (glasses) etc, there is so much variation! Here’s what my screen looks like. You can see that there’s a ton of space between the wings and the text on the left.
WaterGirl
Taking a break for a bit, but I will check back first thing in the morning, if not before.
Planetjanet
@WaterGirl: hee hee. That is it. Curse it to damnation
@Another Scott: I stopped reading Talking Points Memo because Josh implemented every gimmicky feature he could find. The site just became unusable on my phone.
Origuy
I had a strange problem on the the last thread. I wanted to start a post with the linked text. I was in Visual mode. I entered the text, selected it, and clicked the link button. I pasted the URL in by typing Ctrl-V and clicked the Apply button. The link was made, but the link popup was still there. I clicked to the right of the text to start entering unlinked text. However, everything I typed was included in the link. The only way I could find to enter unlinked text was to hit Enter after the link, which started a new paragraph. The Link popup went away when I hit Enter. I couldn’t type unlinked text on the same line as the link.
Windows 10, Chrome.
GaryK
Here’s a strange problem with videos. (WaterGirl, you & I had a brief correspondence about this.) When I try to enlarge them to full screen, instead the entire web page enlarges to full screen. (In fact I need to scroll to re-locate the video window.) This happens for me only when using Safari (my preferred browser) on my Mac; the behavior is as expected when I try using Chrome instead.
JWR
@Another Scott:
My only major gripe about Firefox was when they discontinued the built-in RSS reader. It was easy to set it up just like a regular bookmark, showing when a new post, (just the header or title), appeared. But they said it was too much work for too few users.
@WaterGirl: Just sent you a screenshot of what I see. And please don’t laugh! ;) I really need new glasses, and a larger monitor, too. I can ctrl+- all the way down to what you see, but this time I tried making the font a few more times smaller than I had before, (ctrl+- 3 or 4 times, flyout wings covered up text: 5 or 6 times, text not obscured), but the text is way too small to read. (Which tells me I shoulda jus’ kep mah mouf shut in the first place!)
So don’t worry yourself about this very minor, individual user eyeballs problem. I’ve always needed a larger than recommended font size, and smaller screen resolution anyway. (Right now, on a 20″ monitor, I’m running 1280 X 1024 resolution!)
Cowgirl in the Sandi
De-lurking to say I really like the new site, especially the Refresh button and the return of the Balloon man up top. Nice job Watergirl and the rest of the team!
frosty
N for me. But BillinGlendale’s workaround of clicking on the date before the nym makes the back button work correctly for both mobile (iPhone SE/Safari or Firefox) and laptop (Win 10? and Firefox)
I haven’t noticed any of the other problems.
PS Love the new site. Kudos to all!
PPS Comment #3 seems to be the way this is working for me, but I haven’t paid that much attention.
Ruckus
@Origuy:
You have to use text mode to link. Once you do that you can go back to visual and it shows up with the link text in blue. I believe everything else you can do in visual and I did once do a link in visual but I can’t remember how I closed the link command, which is the problem you were having, the link command stays open in visual. Maybe I used the clear formatting icon, which is the erasure, third icon from the right
Ruckus
@Ruckus:
Damn if that doesn’t work, after applying the link, just use the erasure tool, third icon from the right, place it at the end of the blue box for the link and add a space. That clears the formatting from there forward which is what you need to do to stop the link command.
joel hanes
@Another Scott:
Got it, thanks.
Ian R
@WaterGirl: posts with embedded tweets don’t show the images in the tweets correctly for me; they’re truncated in different ways for each tweet. Using Brave on Android.
Also, not a technical issue but a design complaint, please put a link to the post’s comments at the bottom of the post on the front page, instead of the top. The “Post+Comments” button there now means that I have to either scroll all the way back up through the post for the comments link on the front page or all the way back down through the post I’ve just read on the post’s page.
Mousebumples
@WaterGirl: noted . I’ll try to attach one shortly – it just reappeared when I opened the new “Open Thread: “But It’s Xmas for *Us*, Too…” thread. It’s same Proper brand ad as before the redesign, if that helps but it will hopefully still be there when I use the eback arrow for screencapping purposes.
Edit note: was not there when I used my back arrow or when I reloaded the thread (from my rss reader). I’ll screencap the next reappearance though and will send it along then…
Betsy
I have problems with the back button. exploring a comment thread is how I use it and it seems like after just two or so steps in the thread, it won’t take me back, or a blank area shows for a long time. This is one of the main ways I use the site, and it’s so clunky that it causes me to leave the site after just a few minutes of dealing with it so that’s really kind of a fundamental thing to continuing here, for me.
Origuy
@Ruckus: Thanks. Seems a bit of a kludge, but makes some sense. It would be natural to use the link button in Visual mode, though.
WaterGirl
@Origuy: Testing a link to the Chicago Bears so I can follow along with what you have written.
Trying another link to see what happens if the link is at the end of a sentence instead of in the middle.
What I do after hitting Apply is to click somewhere away from the link in the reply or comment box. I think you may have clicked inside the linked area, does that seem possible?
Links can be created in either visual mode or text mode.
Laura Too
@Watergirl I love the new site, easier for me to use on chrome, and it loads way faster! And after 10+ years of frustration of clicking a link to be taken off site & have to navigate back – you pointing out control click opened up a new browser? DOH! And now the site does it automatically? :) I love that Balloon man is back watching over us. Don’t tell John but I always believed it is him and I missed him for the longest time when he went away. Thanks for the amazing job you are doing!!! We appreciate you!!!
Mousebumples
@WaterGirl: just had it recur so feedback has been submitted. Thanks again!
WaterGirl
@GaryK:
I do recall that conversation, but I was never able to quite figure out what you were describing and I wasn’t able to reproduce it. I tried it just now with the Elizabeth Warren Megan Rapinoe video in this thread:
https://balloon-juice.com/2019/12/13/election-2020-open-thread-the-best-knows-the-best/
Does the weird thing happen if you click that video to take it full screen?
When I went full screen, it took the video full-screen as it should, and then it took me back to the regular screen when I clicked to do so.
Question: does it happen with EVERY video when you try to go full screen in Safari? Or just sometimes
WaterGirl
@Ruckus:
Hey Ruckus, just to clarify, you can create links using either Visual mode or Text mode.
Text mode is needed if you want to enter your own HTML code or if you want to embed a tweet (because that contains HTML code). Other than that, visual mode can be used for everything.
The trick with creating links is this: After you hit the arrow (Apply), then move your cursor to somewhere away from the link (but still in the reply/comment box) and click there.
Then you can type whatever you want, wherever you want, without it being part of the URL.
WaterGirl
@Ian R:
I think I need a bit more detail in order to understand the issue for tweets, but until I have that, I can answer in a more general way.
Anyone can paste in the full embed code for a tweet. When commenters do it, we all see what I call the “pared down” tweets. The tweet we see includes text and links but not images or video.
When front-pagers paste in the very same code, we see the full tweets in standard tweet format, along with any images and video.
If you are not seeing “full” tweets that are part of the post itself, and if you are not seeing “full” tweets when a front-pager has added one in the comments, then it’s a different issue.
In that case, you most likely have a program like Ghostery that has a setting to block social media, or your browser is doing that. Firefox has a setting that does that also. I am not familiar enough with Brave to know for sure, but if you google you may find what you need.
If none of what I just wrote is relevant to your question, please clarify and I will try again!
WaterGirl
@Ian R:
I’m not sure that we’ll make that change, but in the meantime, there’s an easy way to get right to the comments.
The thread itself opens when you click the Post + Comments button on the front page. Do you see where it says “139 Comments” in the image below? Just click on that and it will take you right to the beginning of the comments. Does that give you what you need?
WaterGirl
@Mousebumples: Thanks! I forwarded your Site Feedback entry to John, along with the screen captures from last night that I think may do a better job of showing just how impossible it feels when most of the screen is covered by the top and bottom ads.
Now it’s all in
god’sJohn’s hands. :-)WaterGirl
@Betsy:
Yeah, it’s definitely frustrating.
At this point, as a workaround, I make a mental note of the comment number before I move around the site in some way, so I can just do a FIND with the comment number and return to exactly where I was.
The back button worked great through months of testing, until rollout, when it stopped being reliable. The behavior we need from the back button was described in detail in the specs, and I’m sure we can get back to that functioning properly.
So please hang in there!
WaterGirl
@Origuy: You CAN do links with visual mode. Please check out my comments below at #280 and #284, and let me know if you have any questions.
WaterGirl
@Laura Too: Yes, the new site automatically opens external links in a new tab when you click on the them. But if you want to open another page on BJ, then you still have to use Ctrl-click (PC) or Cmd-Click (Mac) to open “internal” links in a new tab.
I appreciate your kind words!
WaterGirl
Okay, I think i am caught up on everything through 9am. If I missed something, please let me know in the comments or by email.
I’m going to keep checking back on this thread throughout the weekend, so input will be included from everyone who posts by 7am on Monday morning.
~ WaterGirl
w3ski
I don’t mean to whine, but is there a way when sending an article, to not have to scroll back to the top to copy the link? Something like a link at the bottom of each article? KThanx
w3ski
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Updating you on the glitch that I experience on my mac (mojave) using chrome: the comment box only showing the text option and no tabs until posting comments and then both tabs appear.
You asked that I try safari to see if the glitch also appears using safari on my mac. No, it did not occur any of the times that I used safari on my mac to view the site (several times yesterday and this morning).
Also, I tried my iPad running iOS 13 and it did not occur there, either.
And this morning, it is not happening on my mac using chrome either. I guess it is an off and on thing.
I don’t comment often, so could that be an issue with the chrome browser? I do clear the cookies and cache semi-regularly. Is that it?
I have never commented or even viewed the site using safari before, though, so now I am completely confused.
WaterGirl
@w3ski: Are you asking if the social media links can also be at the bottom of the post itself, before the comments start? Or at the bottom-bottom, after all the comments?
If it’s the former, I had it set up that way originally, but I thought better of it and removed the one at the bottom shortly before rollout. I just added that back in for you. If that’s not what you are asking for, I can remove the one from the bottom again, unless others also like it in both places.
In any case, the one at the top will remain.
WaterGirl
@jeffreyw: @Scout211: Addressing this to jeffreyw also because last night he said he sees the same thing you do.
Question: Are you saying that – when this is happening – it happens when you open a new thread for the first time, that if you scroll to the bottom of the post or hit COMMENT to go directly to the comment box… that you do not see the Visual and Text tabs on the comment box?
Would that also be true– when this is happening– that if you opened a particular thread for the first time and then hit REPLY on any random comment? It would be true that the after you hit REPLY to make your first comment on a thread… that the reply box comes up without the visual and text tabs showing?
And very other time after that in a that thread that the tabs show up? But if you open another new thread, the process starts all over again, with the tabs not showing up until after your first comment?
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Yes, it happened yesterday in the way you described. I went directly to the comment box at the end of the thread. It was the first comment I had made in maybe a week? Several weeks? I did not click on the comment button on the menu bar. I scrolled to the end of the thread to make the first comment. In that comment box the two tabs were missing and it showed only the text mode.
I don’t remember if it has occurred when replying to a commenter using the reply button in the past or not. Sorry. I just don’t remember.
Since the initial problem yesterday, each and every time that I clicked the reply-to-a-comment button, scrolled down to the comment box directly or hit the comment button on the top menu bar (since my first comment yesterday afternoon) it hasn’t happened. I tested it in safari and chrome many times and in several different threads and it hasn’t happened again. I even cleared the cache in chrome this morning and it didn’t occur again.
It appears as though this is a bit of a fluke. It really doesn’t bother me all that much since I don’t comment often and I don’t post links.
I really appreciate the time and attention you are focusing on this. However, if it doesn’t happen to other people, it really isn’t a big problem for me and feel free to move on to more pressing issues that bother a larger number of people.
Thank you, Watergirl. Your work on this is very much appreciated and your patience is amazing.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: Thanks so much for all the information. (and for the thank you!)
You are definitely not the only person reporting the issue with the visual and text tabs missing, but you have been my best source for specific details on this issue, and it’s details that help solve the problems!
Do me a favor? Next time you see that the visual and text tabs are missing in a new thread, before you post a comment or a reply, can you please refresh the page and tell me whether just refreshing the page, without adding a comment or doing anything else, brings back the tabs?
And the next time you see it after that? As soon as you see the missing tabs in the comment box, please immediately click reply on some comment – before you do anything else – and let me know whether the tabs are there or not. thanks.
WaterGirl
@Scout211:
I think it’s more likely that it could depend on how busy Balloon Juice is, and this looks to be a pretty slow day at BJ. The site is always busier during the week. It’s shocking to think that some people may be reading and commenting on BJ while they are at work! :-)
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
What you wrote was what I thought it should be. But that doesn’t close the link command for me. When I do that anything I type gets added to the link. If I use the erasure tool it closes the link tool. It may be an imperfect method but the logical method doesn’t work – for me, on this computer. I don’t do links on the phone because that’s just self abuse and I’m not interested, life abuses me enough.
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
Got it. Will do.
WaterGirl
@Ruckus: Sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words. I am going to link to the Chicago Bears for a screen capture for you so you can tell me if this is exactly what you do.
What you see in the first image below is me typing (or pasting) the link. You can see that my cursor is to the right of “com” in the bears URL. I haven’t hit the arrow yet to “Apply” the link.
This next one shows what happens after I hit the arrow for “Apply”.
What I would do immediately after this is move my cursor to the right, in line with the URL, but far enough over so that if you drew a line between the space between the word “screen” and “capture” it would run into my cursor in the line below. Then I just tap my trackpad and I am immediately popped to the end of the line of text, right after “Ruckus”. My link is right where I wanted it, and I am not trapped inside it.
Is that what you do, that isn’t working?
jeffreyw
@WaterGirl: Just now came back to this thread to see what was added later. I have both tabs visible in the reply box, and both tabs were visible when I scrolled down to the comment box. I opened a new BJ window from bookmarks today and the comment box opened in text mode sans tabs when I clicked on a post title to get to an individual post.
I tried to replicate the behavior by opening new instances of the main site from bookmarks but each time the tabs were there when I went to a post either from a title click or from a post+comments button.
WaterGirl
@jeffreyw: Thank you! Is it fair to say that you have not been able to detect a pattern in when it comes up one way and when it comes up the other way?