Joe Biden’s campaign dropped a new vid yesterday:
Donald Trump is erratic, unstable, and dangerously incompetent. Every day that he directs our national security is a dangerous day for the United States. pic.twitter.com/aGUxe4ItmQ
— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) December 9, 2019
It’s pretty good. The screen cap is only an orange hue away from complete perfection, portraying Trump (accurately) as a bloated, braying ignoramus. It seems calculated to wound Trump’s vanity. Good.
The ad also highlights Trump’s shameless sucking up to autocrats and stiff-arming of allies. That’s messaging that is surprisingly effective across party lines, according to the battleground state focus groups the Obama Bros of Pod Save America have been conducting. Again, good.
And finally, the message underscores Biden’s experience and relationships with leaders and institutions around the world, which is a genuine advantage he has over competitors. It lifts Biden up without shitting on Democratic opponents. Also, good.
So far, I’ve regarded the Biden candidacy as a heaping tureen of unseasoned lima beans, i.e., something I did not order, do not want and will not enjoy, but also as a menu item that is infinitely preferable to other options, such as the platter of unwashed, e. coli-infused pig rectums that is the Trump presidency.
So, my expectations of Biden aren’t super high. But this ad clears that bar with room to spare. And Biden does seem to be adjusting to new realities. In interviews over the last couple of days, he moved off an earlier vow not to mention Trump’s (corrupt AF) adult children, citing nepotism in the current administration as the reason he’s proposing a ban on family members making money overseas.
At times, Biden has come across as not fully aware of the shit-tsunami barreling toward him, not only from the corrupt POTUS and DOJ but also from his old Senate colleagues like Lindsey Graham, who once blubbered about what a good person Biden is and now hurls his old friend under the bus to appease Trump. The impeachment trial in the Senate is going to make the GOP House Benghazi shit-show look like a “Won’t You Be My Neighbor” singalong. Maybe Biden realizes that now.
Regarding the impeachment timeline: my theory is that Pelosi’s decision to keep the scope of the inquiry narrow and push it over to the Senate soon is based in part on the fact that Trump and the GOP are running a Biden-focused projection defense, falsely accusing Biden of the crimes Trump, his cronies and his hell-spawn have committed.
There are decent arguments for decelerating the impeachment process and drafting more articles, but it makes sense to factor the larger political landscape into it. Maybe Pelosi figures it’s best to find out how well Trump’s preposterous corruption attacks work against Biden now. It’s not fair, but she’s probably right.
Open thread.
Roger Moore
FTFY.
MattF
I agree that a narrow impeachment is consistent with defense of Biden. I’d like to see Trump’s nepotism in there, just for the pleasure of watching Republicans try to evade buzz-saws coming from more than one direction, but you can’t always get what you want.
Professor Bigfoot
Now that Steppin’ Razor Harris is out… ol’ Unca Joe looks like the best available option.
But dammit, I really wanted a prosecutor to nail all of these sleazy thieving lying sonsabitches to the wall.
(Too much to ask, I know, but a fella can dream, can’t he?)
WaterGirl
Betty, I always feel better after I read your posts. This paragraph is a thing of beauty.
Betty Cracker
@Roger Moore:
I said what I said. FTFM.
Betty Cracker
@Professor Bigfoot: I don’t think he’s the best option, but I do think he’s what we’ll get. It’s early yet! Could be wrong as hell!
PS: Klobuchar is a prosecutor.
Joe Falco
In the spirit of the season, Trump is a “three decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce!”
Cheryl Rofer
I’m okay with Biden, more so than some of the other choices. He knows how to govern. He understands foreign policy. He has a sense of humor.
He’s too old, but I can see him calming things down for four years with AG Kamala Harris going after the thieves.
And I like lima beans.
Jay
The Dangerman
@Professor Bigfoot:
From the VP slot (Kamala).
Cheryl Rofer
@Joe Falco: Hey! I like sauerkraut too!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: Exactly, one must stay true to Balloon Juice tradition.
Mnemosyne
From what I’ve been seeing on Twitter, the House is not limited in the number of articles of impeachment that they can send to the Senate, and there is no time limit. There’s no reason they can’t send a couple this week, a couple next week, a few after the new year …
”Drip drip drip” is not a sound the Trumpers want as a through line to the election.
rikyrah
This made me think of something else:
I wish some reporter’s editor actually cared enough to assign a reporter to actually look into and run the numbers…
How many recalls of food products in 44’s Administration by this time vs. Dolt45’s.
Why do I get the feeling that Dolt45’s list will be far longer?
This part of deregulation is literally killing us and putting our health in harm’s way.
Joe Falco
@Cheryl Rofer: Well, I wouldn’t imagine it would be good with the rest of it!
artem1s
@Professor Bigfoot:
I want a prosecutor too. If she’s the head of the DOJ, that’s fine by me. But mostly I want Biden to understand we are NOT going to accept a pass on prosecuting everyone involved in this mess. Obama made a mistake when he didn’t ask the DOJ to pursue criminal charges against those who crashed the economy. Pelosi followed his lead I think in part because she promised Ted Kennedy she’d work on healthcare reform.
Never again. Time to start asking him whether Biden will order the AG to continue investigating the Trump crime family and GOP election interference if he makes it to the WH.
Patricia Kayden
And Barr’s hypocrisy continues unabated.
sdhays
@Betty Cracker: I’m also resigning myself to a Biden nomination. He terrifies me, because he’s way too old for this and because I have serious doubts that he can rise to the occasion. I just don’t feel like he understands how horribly broken things are.
But, whatever. This democracy thing requires agreement and “ancient white man” seems to be just about the only thing we can agree on. At least Biden doesn’t seem to have brainworms and is a decent guy.
mellowjohn
Not my first choice (she just dropped out, alas), but will happily vote for him if he gets the nod.
FelonyGovt
With Harris out, my primary vote is still up for grabs. I’m not sold on Biden but I am encouraged by these hard-hitting ads focusing on Trump rather than crapping all over his Democratic competition. Makes Biden look serious and focused. And he does have foreign policy experience and credibility.
patrick II
If Biden can match thefeeling of this and another ad he released last week with his own words ( instead of “you’re a liar!”) on the campaign trail, I will be a happy camper.
Well, maybe not happy, but I’ll eat my lima beans..
The Dangerman
I wonder if Kamala as Biden’s VP increases the chances of Pence getting dumped for Hailey or Ivanka. You just know Donald wants to share “the ticket” with Ivanka.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: Why do you hate Kamala? //
The AG is a dead end position, give her VP and a President Biden can task her with cleaning up the joint and be better positioned to have a political career.
Cheryl Rofer
@Joe Falco: True
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: That’s okay with me too
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: And even after a Senate trial, they could send more as long as Trump is committing additional offences(which he will).
MattF
@The Dangerman: That would also make it clear that Trump’s answer to accusations of nepotism is ‘fuck you’.
Duane
Charles Pierce got hit by a car? He must have really pissed off Putin this time.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@FelonyGovt: And the pic of Uncle Joe with the shades at the end is good.
Jeffro
I read that, and scrolled back up just to confirm which FPer posted this. As if there was any doubt.
Kent
I think this ad is as much an attack on Buttigieg as it is an attack on Trump. Biden has no real policy separation from Buttigieg, the only real card he has is “experience”
That said, if we have to have Biden, then the most consequential VP pick in our lifetimes will be Biden’s VP pick. Because whoever it is will be the next Dem President in waiting. Biden is obviously fading and the chance that he serves two full terms and is still in office 9 years from now are pretty slim. If he does win the nomination and election then the chances that he eventually either resigns for health reasons or doesn’t run again in 2024 are measurably high.
I’d love to see Harris in that spot. Or Klobuchar. Or anyone tough enough to be the bureaucratic knife fighter in the administration to help clean up the vandalism that Trump has laid across the executive branch. It’s not going to be about policy. It’s going to be about rooting out Trumpism and its legacy from every executive office in the land.
Duane
@Joe Falco: The arsenic sauce goes well with tire rims and anthrax. Tamara has a recipe.
robmassing
The strategy of this ad is pretty much the Clinton strategy, no? Not that it’s necessarily a bad idea – she won by 3,000,000 votes, after all – but if Biden is going to go down this “dangerous, unqualified” vs. “experienced leader” road, let’s have some video of Trump acting like a monster, not just some stills that don’t have a chance to sink in.
the Conster
The two theories of this election seem to be populism focused on making 607 American billionaires cry, or that Trump is the existential threat to democracy and the rule of law. Since we’re in a bus hurtling towards the abyss, I’d rather just have someone grab the wheel and step on the brake instead of going into great detail about a multi-trillion engine overhaul when we know everything ambitious is DOA in the Senate even if it flips. Joe seems to get that, and he also won’t be tying himself to Bernie Fucking Sanders.
Jeffro
You’re exactly right. I think that might in fact be part of the underlying strategy here…remind the GOP, regularly, that trumpov never fails to disappoint when it comes to the category of “additional shoes dropping”.
(That would be a great ad, btw…his bulging, screaming stupid mouth wide open as one, then a couple, then a gazillion animated shoes drop…)
I’d also like to see more commentary/op-eds/ads along the lines of “trumpov has lost y’all 3 straight elections, GOP…you sure you want to stick this guy for another huge loss?”
NotMax
Way too much history under the onion belt with ads which promise far more than the product capably can or does deliver.
Skepticism is not only healthy but vital.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kent: Yeah, Biden faces the opposite choice in VP than when Obama picked him. He does need to go for someone younger due to his age. My choice would be Kamala, since she was my first choice.
mrmoshpotato
@Joe Falco: LOL! And to YouTube I go. Thank you Dr. Seuss, Albert Hague, Karloff, and, of course, Thurl Ravenscroft.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@the Conster:
This is the same Biden that has said that he can work with Republicans to get shit done
pat
I will walk the streets and knock on doors for Biden or any of the others EXCEPT Sanders. That I can not do.
Jay
@the Conster
be careful what you wish for:
So far, Biden’s position is that what’s wrong with the Senate, the House, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, the Federal Institutions, the US Economy, etc, etc is just Trump.
The US will not survive a post Trump Administration that “looks forward, not back”, and so far, the Biden Campaign has in no way “signalled” that they “get that”.
tomtofa
This.
TaMara (HFG)
Not even in my top 3 choices, but these last two ads have nailed it. Will I vote for him? You BET. Will I campaign for him? Yes, ma’am. Will I crawl over glass to make sure Trump gets his fat orange ass handed to him in 2020? Don’t ever doubt it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: You should read that in context, that gives a really inaccurate spin on what Biden said.
Geoduck
Re: the impeachment trial in the Senate- it’s reported that the Shiatgibbon and Moscow Mitch are butting heads about how to do it. MM wants the kabuki staged quickly and quietly, and TS wants to spray the walls six inches thick with poo.
Amir Khalid
Liverpool, playing a do-or-die final Champions League group stage match at Red Bull Salzburg, have just scored twice in successive minutes to take control of the match. The first from a header by ex-Salzburg player Naby Keïta, off an assist from Sadio Mané, also an ex-Salzburg player. The second at a fiendishly tight angle from 20 yards by Mo Salah. Lverpool 0-2 up. Yes!!
jeffreyw
@Cheryl Rofer: I love lima beans that don’t come out of a C-rat can. We called those ham and motherfuckers.
Brachiator
Oh, man, do I agree about the lima beans.
Also agree that the Biden ad is very good, direct and to the point.
mrmoshpotato
@Cheryl Rofer: Yes. I too object to slandering kraut like that, but the rest of it stands.
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/nidhiprakash/joe-biden-hunter-biden-questions?bftwnews=&utm_term=4ldqpgc&__twitter_impression=true
sdhays
@tomtofa: One of the attractive effects of this approach is that is burns down the Senate calendar with stuff they can’t ignore, thus slowing down confirmations.
Which is why I doubt the Democrats will do it. But if and when the situation is switched around and the Democrats control the Senate and the White House, a Republican House will clog the calendar with made up impeachment articles to make up for the filibuster that they gutted.
Jay
Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
@TaMara (HFG): TaMara cussed, so it’s official…Trumpov has stepped on her (and our) last nerve. And I second every thing she said.
Spanky
I ain’t resigning myself to nuthin. Not a vote has been cast.
Kent
This isn’t a general election ad. It is a primary ad. While the underlying target is always going to be Trump, I think this ad is clearly a shot across the bow against Buttigieg on the experience issue. Because that’s about the only argument he has to separate himself from Buttigieg. Their policy positions are pretty similar.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: Yeah, I read it, that’s why I pointed out that it gave an inaccurate spin to what Joe said.
The relevant portion…
That’s probably an accurate assessment of reality. I’d like a sane Republican Party, I’d also like a unicorn as well.
James E Powell
I’m not saying I’m in favor and I’m not saying I’m against, but Joe Biden is far enough in front that if he started landing body blows on Trump once a week I think we’d see the electorate gathering behind him.
Betty Cracker
@Jay: I read that bit about Biden urging voters to “stay Republican” and was also appalled because it signals, as you said, that he continues to let the party off the hook and is giving tacit permission to ticket-splitting at a time the Republican Party needs and deserves to be slapped down to electoral oblivion.
On the other hand, he is right that America needs more than one sane party in a two-party system. The Democratic Party is at a structural disadvantage as a governing entity and a political organization because it has to 1) clean up the messes the nihilists make, and 2) accommodate the views of virtually every sane, non-racist voter in America.
the Conster
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Yes, you’re correct.
Jay
@sdhays:
the House get’s to create, vote on and bring to the Senate, Articles of Impeachment.
There is no rule, ( just a norm) that requires Yurtle the Turtle to hold a trial. If he wants to, he can just add them to the huge stack of House passed bills, unread, on his desk.
should the Senate change hands in 2020, this should be a lesson the Democratic Senate Majority Leader takes to heart, but I am afraid they won’t.
Villago Delenda Est
Good ad, but Joe’s major problem is he thinks we’re in the 80’s, and bi-partisanship is possible still. He’s dead wrong, as every motherfucking GOP asshole in Congress proves every motherfucking day.
the Conster
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Bernie Sanders is the electoral kiss of death, and represents the tea party-ization of the Democratic party, even though he isn’t a Democrat. He’s done more to destroy the party than any Republican.
germy
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: That’s more of a General Election pitch from Joe for the not totally insane folk who still identify as Republicans, there are a good number of them(I think Hillary referred to them as the “non-deplorable” basket) as well as independents who lean Republican.
gene108
I think Biden can win in 2020. I don’t think his brand of bland will help Democrats after that.
Democrats have a branding problem in clearing defining what they are for and how electing Democrats will make things better than electing Republicans.
They need this brand to motivate their supporters, because as much as people got engaged, because of the horror of Trump, a lot of folks are getting exhausted by constantly battling the horror of Trump.
Some will probably keep engaged, but my wild guess is enough will be worn out that without building something that gets people excited, we’ll be looking at 2022 as a repeat of 2010.
I don’t see Biden as being the man to do this.
I am no personally saying M4A is the answer, but we do need to do something substantial.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: Actually, there is a Senate rule on that; the Turtle must hold the trial. Of course he can try and change the rule.
janesays
@Cheryl Rofer: I can’t see Biden pursuing any criminal charges against the Trump cartel – he’s way too much of a “time to bring the country together and let bygones be bygones” kind of guy.
zhena gogolia
You are a wordsmith! Good post.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@janesays: I don’t know, the attacks have become person for Biden and they will only get worse.
Another Scott
In other news, TheHill:
What’s up with this Manchin guy, fighting to pass legislation that actually means something to his voters? What is he, some kind of Communist or something?
Seriously, more Senators need to be pushing back against the way Moscow Mitch has been running the Senate. Good for Manchin for showing some spine, even if it is on something that Moscow Mitch supposedly supports. (It looks like the bill only has about 15 sponsors.)
Cheers,
Scott.
bystander
When twitler is gone, there will still be repubs. Why signal your loathing and rejection of all they stand for when you will inevitably have to sit across the table from them? And presumably serve as POTUS for trumputinites, too?
Plus, it strikes me that Joe is taking on a huge burden, not the least of which is the possibility that he ends up Graf Hillary Zeppelin II. I don’t think his competitors have fully come to terms with that reality.
Mnemosyne
@Spanky:
I don’t hate Biden, but this is where I’m at, too. I don’t see any reason to commit myself to anything other than “the Democratic candidate” until there are some actual votes in the can.
Martin
Well played Las Vegas.
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid:
Three minutes remain of regulation time. Liverpool are still pressing for a third goal.
Ella in New Mexico
@Betty Cracker:
Excellent, excellent points. I think we’ve all been a bit surprised to have seen him grow a bit this campaign. Being able to admit when he’s wrong on several important issues was a first, and now, it’s clear he’s actually facing reality about the current state of our affairs. And I’m actually glad he’s punching back regarding this Ukraine-Hunter Biden crap. John Kerry wrongly didn’t push back hard enough against the Swiftboaters for fear of looking like he was giving them too much credence, and he paid dearly for itt in the election.
I think this ad really does sell what are some of the best reasons for Biden’s becoming President, and I think it’s what is attracting a lot of his supporters: he’s done some things and is from an era in which we were respected, had hope for our future and (mostly) faith in our institutions being able to do the right things. It’s actually pretty close what I thought many months ago when it became apparent we were stuck with Orange Hitler until 2020.
At that time, as we started talking about who our favorite candidates were, what our ideal Unicorn Waves Her Magic Wand issues should be for the next election, my biggest concern was who we should nominate to run against Blump who actually had a snowball’s chance in Hell of beating him, and who would have the wisdom, decency, and judgement and skills to wrench the helm of the United States back out of the hands of Russia and the Infiltration of Koch-Federalist Right Wing appointees dedicated to destroying our country and provide steady, calming, reparative leadership. Back then, a lot of people were writing Joe Biden off as a candidate simply because of his age and his propensity to “gaffes”. But the more I looked at the future through the above lens, Joe Biden definitely was and remains a solid and reasonable choice.
Our country has steered so far off track in both foreign and domestic policy that we’ve not only lost ground gained in 8 years under Obama, we’re gonna have to go back to frigging Clinton to rebuild all we’ve gained. Just like I was elated when “old Nancy” returned to her Speakership for the same reasons, I want someone who can be a calming and healing presence for the 8 years after they’re elected. My personal preference right now is Elizabeth Warren, because I think she actually fits the bill as steady leader AND future bearer. But to be honest, I think the most important item on any voter’s mind right now shouldn’t be what type of universal healthcare we choose or how we implement the Green New Deal, it’s can we take back our democracy and how fast can we fix it.
So my candidate will have to have a plan for THAT, as well as all the other things that I want to see happen that can only happen if we don’t lose to Trump (or whatever Republican takes over for him if he can’t drag his fat ass over the line to 2020). If it’s gotta be Joe Biden then let it be fricking Joe Biden, with all his less than ideal qualities and positions. Then let the powers of the political campaign process move him in directions in terms of policy that are more progressive–which I have quite a bit of confidence is quite moldable if he sees it gets him in as POTUS.
sukabi
@Mnemosyne: since there’s a 0% chance that drumpf and crew will stop their crime spree or the ridiculous cover ups why should the house stop investigating and delivering additional articles of impeachment? Investigations shouldn’t end until ALL the perps are exposed and removed.
But I’m funny that way.
Felanius Kootea
Good ad. I’ll give him that.
germy
https://www.jfklibrary.org/learn/education/profile-in-courage-essay-contest/past-winning-essays/2000-winning-essay-by-peter-buttigieg
germy
Mayor Pete’s prizewinning high school essay on… Bernie Sanders.
Fleeting Expletive
Thanks to all for suggestions on Shakespeare in the last thread. I’ve got the volumes of complete works on my shelf, so “Measure for Measure” is where I’ll start. What exactly would he have said about the Orange Menace?
NotMax
@Jay
No. There are rules which come into effect. It may be able to be slow walked, but not ignored nor put on a shelf. Excerpt:
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
it actually didn’t give an inaccurate spin to it.
aside from one line inferring that “the world has changed”, and other than another line saying “vote for me”, it is a statement that Biden still believes in bipartizanship with the current Republican Party.
I get what Biden is “selling”, but unless his Campaign figures out a way to signal that Biden is more “woke” than he appears to be, if he wins the nomination, he’s going to get a lot of “broken glass votes”, and that might not be enough to overcome the institutional hurdles and probably not enough to win the Senate.
there are a bunch of different Democratic Party constituencies, with differing “primary” goals for a post Trump/ReThug Govenment, and a Campaign needs to motivate a bunch of those different groups to come out and work for, which is what Warren and Wilmer are managing. You can’t just rely on Trump to drive GOTV.
lots of time left in the Primaries, then the Campaign, so still lots of time to add to the message.
Brachiator
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
There is a pretty good Lawfare article that notes that the Constitution gives the Senate the sole power to try an impeachment. But they are not necessarily compelled to do so. Some other possible options noted:
The Republicans may try to scuttle a trial or do anything to avoid an official vote that officially shows them supporting Trump.
joel hanes
@rikyrah:
The Supreme Court is one precedent-overturning case away from deciding that Congress cannot designate executive agencies to write regulations that have the force of law, and that all regulations must be written and passed by the Congress.
Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are on board; the “federalists” are lining up cases.
With one decision, we can say goodbye to the FDA, the EPA, the FCC, the Departments of Education and Energy, OSHA — the entire regulatory framework built up since the gilded age.
janesays
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I think that will start to backfire badly on Democrats. The media will absolutely turn on them, but even worse, I think less engaged voters will as well. If Trump gets impeached and acquitted and the Democrats try to impeach him again – knowing full well he’ll be acquitted in the Senate again – a lot of people are going to start to think that Democrats are wasting everybody’s time. I know it’s not as if they’re positioned to get much done anyway with McTortoise controlling the upper chamber, but the futility of pursuing multiple impeachments knowing it isn’t going to actually remove Trump from office will start to wear on all of the voters who aren’t already firmly entrenched on either side.
The Democrats are absolutely right to impeach the MFer, senate outcome be damned, but I think this is their one and only shot to do it. And I kind of wish the House hearings had gone on a little longer and gotten more dirt to throw at him in the senate trial, but maybe that would have backfired as well.
After the Ukraine revelations, the polls on impeachment started trending rapidly in our favor, but they seem pretty stuck in place right now with just a slight majority of the country favoring his impeachment – they don’t seem to be moving much in the last month or so, even after all the testimony. It’s certainly better than being in a spot where a slight majority opposes the impeachment, but it isn’t a position that will scare Republicans in relatively safe seats from hopping on the impeachment bandwagon.
Amir Khalid
Job done: Red Bull Salzburg 0-2 Liverpool. Tight match at the beginning, but once they got those two goals Liverpool were well in control. Liverpool finish top of Group E, a point ahead of Napoli, and qualify for the Champions League knockout stage.
Another Scott
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’d rather see her as head of the FBI, myself, if she’s not on the ticket. 10 year term. She could get a lot of good stuff done there.
But Donnie’s guy would have to leave first. Wray’s term won’t end until August 2027. :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Lapassionara
@gene108: Democrats have allowed the Republicans to brand them. In fact, Democrats brought us Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. These have had a huge and positive impact on this country, and Dems should be pointing out the ways that Republicans want to undermine these programs.
Bill Clinton left office with a budget surplus. Obama achieved the Affordable Care Act and reduced the deficit he inherited. Democratic administrations enforce the environmental laws.
The list of the Democratic Party’s accomplishments are long over the last and present century. Yet it gets branded as the party of “tax and spend,” and now Republicans are calling any proposal from the Democrats “socialist.”
I do not know how to fight this, but we need a smarter press corps for starters. And our candidates need a clear message and they need to stay on offense.
germy
@Lapassionara:
I think they’re plenty smart. They’re smart enough to be doing what their bosses expect of them.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Thats what Twitter is for.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: No, what Biden is saying is voting for him doesn’t mean that you have to become a Democrat. If you’re willing to vote for him, you’re not a “deplorable” but you can still be a Republican.
zhena gogolia
I just called my representative, and the person who answered the phone very politely suggested I look at her website, and I saw this:
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Yeah, one of the reasons I’ve stayed away from Twitter until recently.
Mnemosyne
@Jay:
Biden was saying that one-party rule is bad for everyone and leads to corruption. It’s hard to argue with that given world history.
Brachiator
@germy:
Aside from being convicted of a crime, I pretty much give anyone a pass on anything they said or did in high school, especially because of social media over-reach.
Baud
@Mnemosyne:
Juicers have made the same comment many times.
Jay
@NotMax
Sample:https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mitch-mcconnell-undid-213-years-of-senate-history-in-33-minutes/2019/04/03/58b3eaca-565c-11e9-9136-f8e636f1f6df_story.html%3foutputType=amp
And Yurtle could adhere fully to “The Rules” and yet have the whole thing over, 15 minutes after the oath is administered.
Never underestimate ReThug ratfucking.
janesays
@sukabi:
Sounds great in theory, but the problem is that literally none of the perps are ever going to be removed by the U.S. Senate. Not one. And after awhile, numerous impeachments which everybody knows will end with senate acquittals are going to start to look like a colossal waste of time to a lot of undecided voters.
senyordave
If Biden is the nominee (and I don’t wish that, although I prefer him over Buttigieg, and a million times over Bernie), Harris seems like a perfect VP choice. She is a prosecutor and can constantly remind everyone of how corrupt Trump and EVERYONE around him is. When Trump brings up Hunter Biden she can talk about the shenanigans of Uday, Qusay, and Javanka, and how they are profiting off the presidency. In some ways they do compliment each other pretty well, although my preference would be Harris for pres and Biden for VP.
I can’t see Warren as VP, certainly not if Biden is the candidate.
Jeffro
Quickest way to snap them back to sanity is to thoroughly and soundly clean their clocks at the polls, followed quickly by overturning Citizens United.
Isn’t there a Sherman (or Lincoln?) quote about how the quickest way to end the Civil War would be to ruthlessly and utterly crush the confederate forces? I’m reconciled to Biden being the nominee if it comes to that, but the rest of the party needs to ignore his naive musings on this particular topic.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@zhena gogolia: The one issue I have with that statement is that it talks about “overturning the 2016 election”(a phrase I heard quite a few times from Republicans in yesterday’s hearing). Even if the Senate voted to convict, Dense would become President. He was on the Republican ticket that received a majority of votes in the Electoral College.
oatler.
@Joe Falco: He’s a bad banana with a greasy black peel.
zhena gogolia
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I know, that was the one false note.
Jay
@janesays:
once the House votes for Impeachment, it’s up to the House to take it to the Senate. They don’t have to take it to the Senate. They can leave it on the “to do list” and launch another Impeachment process on different articles.
they can just stack up one after the other,
germy
@oatler.: Is his father German? The story kept changing.
Baud
Lisa Page is suing DOJ.
Brachiator
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Excellent point. Even though Dense would be a terrible president, removing Trump would not nullify the 2016 election.
PJ
@senyordave: All this talk about so-and-so should be AG, so-and-so should be VP – it’s mostly hogwash. The only reason any candidate is going to accept any position is if it advances their political career or influence. AG does squat for Harris’ career; VP might lead her to the Presidency, so she might consider it. There’s no position outside of President that would be more powerful for Warren than being in the Senate, and it’s highly unlikely she’s going to be running again for President (though Sanders and Biden clearly have no problems with running at their ages), so she’s not going to accept being VP. Buttigieg would be smart to take anything he’s offered, because he can’t get elected statewide in IN, but no one is going to offer him the VP job unless he can deliver nationwide votes, and, so far, it doesn’t look like he can. (Plus, you can be sure he would be undermining whoever the President is whenever it would make himself look good.) Etc.
Amir Khalid
In other news, today I finally figured out how to play guitar standing up. Lady* was with me for the breakthrough moment.
*My white Squier Strat.
Another Scott
@Jay:
Of course, Biden said a little more than that – beware the snippet and the ellipsis. BuzzFeed:
I wouldn’t have said it that way, but in the context it’s not so bad. (Most likely) Only a fairly sensible Republican would come out to see him at a rope line, and of course one-party states are bad. Sure, that’s true. And the GOP needs sensible people because RWNJs are running the place (and have been for a while). But he’s not arguing for losing elections.
I’m not sure it’s the best approach for a Democratic primary, though…
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@senyordave: Agreed.
Baud
Betty, if you’re still here, you might be interested in this given the media attacks on Warren recently.
justawriter
I’ve gotten to the point where I would love a Democrat that would bring a knife to a gun fight. Up until now, Biden an the other centrists have brought pillows.
Just Chuck
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
You appear to be applying facts and reason to an argument solely for the ears of Republicans. I hope you see the problem here.
germy
@justawriter:
But isn’t that how Hillary took care of Scalia?
NotMax
@Jay
The response was to your blunt assertion that there exist no rules, nothing more.
Changing broncos in mid-rodeo not recommended.
Amir Khalid
@germy:
I was under the impression that his grandfather Friedrich, exiled for draft-dodging, was the German.
Just Chuck
How about when said force wholly embraces treason?
janesays
@Jay: Incorrect. The moment the full House votes to pass impeachment articles, the president is impeached, and the Senate takes over, regardless of whether or not the House chooses to “bring” it to them.
The only way to delay the Senate taking over the process is to hold up the actual floor vote on the articles of impeachment. The Judiciary Committee could pass articles in committee and they could be held in limbo while other articles are pursued, but once the articles hit the floor and get passed, it’s out of Pelosi’s hands.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Just Chuck: There are never-Trumpers, I actually know some.
rikyrah
@Jay:
I want all of them to go to jail.
germy
@Amir Khalid: So bone spurs run in the family.
Tragic.
mrmoshpotato
@Brachiator: Nullify this.
chopper
i think pelosi knows there’s no easy way for her to push the whole thing off until it would be most damaging, so it’s happening now. that being said, trump’s financials are her (hopeful) ace in the hole.
germy
Among the pundit class, there are “Never Trumpers” and then there are what Roy Edroso calls “Just The Tip Trumpers”
rikyrah
@Another Scott:
this shouldn’t even be in question. This should be easy. That it’s not…well, points to GOP depravity.
Jay
@Mnemosyne:
he was also saying Bipartizanship would be back.
Like I said, between now and then, he can change the signalling from the Nostalgia Tour, ( eg. via his VP pick), but right now, other than on Trump, his signalling is trying to drag the Overton Window back to 1998.
Between now and then, ( if he wins the nom) he needs to speak to the 12% of Democratic Party Voters who recognize that the ReThugs are an Enemy of Democracy and must be dealt with in some manner,
Otherwise, it’s just Team Broken Glass and the Trump “Haters” to GOTV, that might not be enough, and it’s not enough to just take the White House in 2020, if the rot is to be stopped.
cmorenc
@Kent:
Unfortunately, the most enduringly difficult legacy of Trump and his GOP enablers to root out will be the fleet of federal court judges, including his two SCOTUS picks, who will likely be inclined to frustrate and sabotage any Democratic administration / Dem-controlled congress’s efforts to repair the damage / restore a progressive approach to governance / effectively go after Trumpian shitweasels.
For example: My bet is that Roberts (and possibly Kavanaugh as well) won’t go along with overruling Roe v Wade, but rather allow it to be effectively eviscerated through a thousand encroaching cuts, such as SCOTUS’s refusal to review the Trump-majority Circuit Court’s decision upholding the KY mandatory fetal ultrasound requirement. Roberts will likely follow this tack because he plays a strategic long game – and knows overt overruling of Roe would impair the GOP’s chances of keeping or regaining political (and therefore ideologically conservative) control; Kavanaugh possibly also because of an understanding he reached with Justice Kennedy against overturning Roe v Wade. So why might Kavanaugh see at least nominally honoring Kennedy’s approach as the best course? Kavanaugh is clever and cynical enough to understand Roberts approach to the conservative long game that the extensive progressive infrastructure built into the federal government (e.g. social security, medicare, etd) can’t be abruptly obliterated by judicial fiat without conservatives / the GOP taking unacceptably severe, lasting political damage – instead, the approach is to incrementally dismantle it piece by piece, until just a debilitated, dysfunctional skeleton remains to collapse like a derelict house eventually does when its foundation and support beams have rotted away from beneath it.
vhh
@Professor Bigfoot: Presidents don’t jail miscreants, that is the job of the Attorney General, a post which may suite Ms. K. Harris much better.
Ksmiami
@Lapassionara: the short answer is the GOP has been nothing but a goddamn obstacle in moving our country forward in every measure. from safe working environments to clean air and rights for all, they are feudalists hell bent on taking us back to the fucking Middle Ages. Americans deserve better- to be a shining but often imperfect light of Democracy to the world. You’re welcome….
rikyrah
@janesays:
the only other articles they can come up with are those associated with the court cases. IF the Democrats FINALLY get all the financial documents, then I totally believe they should draw up Articles based upon the criminality that I believe exists in those documents.
janesays
Article I, Section 3, Clause 6 clearly states:
There’s no ambiguity in that statement – there isn’t a caveat that says “as soon as the House brings the impeachment to them”. Once an individual is impeached – meaning once the full House has voted on and passed articles of impeachment – the Senate takes over, regardless of the wishes of anyone in the House.
vhh
@artem1s: Presidents absolutely should not be ordering the AG whom to investigate and prosecute. That is precisely why Trump and Barr are so dangerous. The DOJ should be independent.
TomatoQueen
@zhena gogolia: This is very good coming from Rosa & let’s hope more of her colleagues join with her in similar statements. Yes, she’s safe as houses where others are not so, but not only is she showing support for leadership, she’s also recognizing the career service folk risk-taking and dedication–let’s have more of this too.
Also, of all the beans I loathe, and that’s all of them except haricots verts, steamed for 2 seconds with butter, I hate Lima beans the most. This will not be a problem, ground glass, etc.
Jay
@janesays
Get it, until the House directs the Managers of Impeachment, to carry the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate, and the Senate agrees to receive them,
The House can hold as many Impeachments it wants with out ever taking a single one to the Senate.
Kent
Vice presidents can have a lot of power if they are granted it by the President.
Al Gore actually did quite a bit to streamline Federal agencies with Clinton’s whole “Reinventing Government” thing. He would go around and ride herd on different Federal agencies. I was working in NOAA at the time and we did a major restructuring of our regulations and systems that was long overdue and probably wouldn’t have happened without pressure from the White House.
Dick Cheney, of course, totally ran amok because Bush empowered him to do so.
If we are going to go with Biden in the end then we need a really strong and competent VP who’s mission it is going to be to de-Trump the entire Federal bureaucracy. That means a strong administrator who can put together a good team and get shit done. From what I know of Klobuchar and her demanding no-bullshit approach, she might be a good person for the job. Perhaps Harris. Not Buttigieg who has no experience in any sort of administrative job at the Federal level. Maybe Castro who has run a Federal agency. Maybe even Warren. But I think we need someone a bit younger who can be the president in waiting for 2024 or 2028. Warren would be 79 by 2028.
We’ve been enamored with the idea of a woman president since Hillary. But the fact of the matter is that we have never even had a woman VP and that would be a really big deal. I could honestly get behind any of younger top female candidates. I think Harris and Klobuchar are the two most reasonable options. I’m sure the bench is much deeper. I suspect Biden will be more comfortable with Klobuchar as she is more of a centrist white working class clone of him from the upper midwest.
vhh
@The Dangerman: Ivanka as totally unqualified nepotistic Trumpster running mate. Bring it on.
Humdog
@Amir Khalid: congrats to Liverpool and to your accomplishment. Now you can promenade your Lady about the room!
Brachiator
@Jay:
The only candidate who consistently says that you have to bypass the GOP is Sanders. Of course, he also thinks that you have to bypass the Democrats as well and substitute Grassroots Nirvana. This is a political dead end.
I have no problem with Biden playing to some Republican voters. Political reality will determine how any elected Democratic president reacts to the GOP.
Baud
@Brachiator:
I thought Sanders was going to make the GOP look out the window, not bypass them. I haven’t followed what he’s been saying lately though.
Jay
janesays
@rikyrah: I think the Democrats will only pursue future articles of impeachment if irrefutable evidence explicitly showing a serious crime has taken place surfaces. Basically, it has to be something significantly more grave than the Ukraine situation. Pelosi isn’t going to push to start this process all over again unless it is something that is extremely damning against Cheetolini – damning enough that at least 60% of the electorate consistently says (meaning in multiple polls over a period of weeks) they believe the newly uncovered wrongdoings warrant a new impeachment process.
She’s going to follow the polls, and she should – there’s no point in impeaching him a second time knowing he’s going to get acquitted again if we don’t have an overwhelming majority of the public on our side. Quite the opposite, it will start to hurt the Democrats electoral odds if we don’t have broad public support. And what would be the point of that? To be able to say we impeached him twice, but failed to get him convicted again and then he got re-elected?
Bill Arnold
@Jay:
Yeah, I’ve been assuming that this play (not sending to Senate immediately) is being contemplated at least.
Another Scott
@Jay: Politicians want to win elections. They’ll do whatever is necessary to do so. If that means being RWNJs screaming NO, then they’ll do that. If that means compromising, then they’ll do that.
That’s the way American politics has always worked.
Things are out of whack now because of gerrymandering and Citizens United and all the rest, but the facts remain. If Teabaggers see that they’re not going to be re-elected without compromising, then they’ll compromise. We’ll see evidence for that proposition on the USMCA trade agreement in the coming days/weeks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Bill Arnold:
I’d be surprised if there is a delay in sending it over.
Baud
@janesays:
I agree.
NotMax
@Baud
Agreed. Fauxmentum is a questionable strategy.
Kent
@janesays: I agree. I expect all the relevant House committees to keep investigating Trump full bore on all fronts. Drip, drip drip. But I wouldn’t expect any new articles of impeachment unless he commits some new egregious crimes for which there is a clear and obvious record as has been the case with Ukraine.
Chyron HR
@the Conster:
It’s amazing to me that Biden has been leading in the polls for months, and yet every day his worshipers come here to piss and moan because… what? They think he should be running uncontested going into Iowa and New Hampshire?
Cacti
Not sure why you put experience in quotes.
Mayo Pete has one of the thinnest resumes of anyone on the Dem side.
mrmoshpotato
@Amir Khalid: I hope you played the greatest and best song in the world?
janesays
@Jay: Those are senate rules, which don’t have the same power as a clause in the U.S. Constitution. If McConnell wants to begin the trial immediately after the House passes the articles, he’s going to point to the constitutional clause I quoted, and Democrats won’t be able to stop him, because SCOTUS will almost certainly back him up on it.
But I’m pretty sure this debate is all moot anyway – Pelosi isn’t going to put the articles on the floor for a full vote until she’s ready to hand those articles over to the senate. Absolutely nothing she has said or done would suggest otherwise. More specifically, the media has characterized the process as being one in which as soon as the house passes the articles of impeachment, the senate will take over, and Pelosi hasn’t pushed back against that characterization of the process at all. I think if she were seriously considering delaying the process after the full house votes, she would correct the media on their characterization of the process.
Brachiator
@Chyron HR:
Biden has worshipers here? Where have they been hiding?
Jay
@Brachiator:
if you have the White House, the Senate and the House, and a whipped Party, you don’t need the GOP.
if you need the GOP, then sadly, America is done for and the 2020 Election is just an opportunity to hit the pause button on the DVR to delay the inevitable ending, because you are going to get much, much less “bipartizanship” out of the surviving ReThugs post Dolt45, than President Obama faced after 2010.
the winnowing of the ReThug party over the past two decades has not reduced the number or quality of the crazies, but, instead, the opposite.
and that’s not including all the historical and relatively recent blocks to enabling any structural reforms.
Suzanne
Yes. This. 110%.
Biden is not who we need. But this is an emergency.
Kent
@Cacti: I agree and I think it shows with his recent stumbles and getting tripped up with all the means testing nonsense and GOP memes in higher education.
I don’t know why I put “experience” in quotes. But I don’t think it’s an end to itself. Dick Cheney had lots of experience. Obama had very little.
My larger point is that I think the Biden camp are going full throttle against Buttigieg, especially in Iowa. I think they probably realize a lot of the activist wing of they party is going to stick with Warren and Sanders until the end. But that Buttigieg’s support is softer.
catclub
@artem1s: Obama made a mistake when he didn’t ask the DOJ to pursue criminal charges against those who crashed the economy.
takebakawashi
other commenters have mentioned Uncle Blazer on twitter; i went to see what he had to say about recent developments
his theory is that we should expect the Democrats to seem to be moving rapidly while actually slow-walking the process; they’re waiting (he says) for the Supreme Court to rule on their suit seeking Trump’s financial information — so lots of things like announcing articles of impeachment and passing them out of committee and talking about sending it to the Senate, but no actual floor vote on the articles
one curious thing that he noted was that in the announcement this morning Schiff misstated how long the suit for Don McGahn’s info has been pending — Schiff said eight months but that suit was filed in July; it’s Congress’s suit for Trump’s financial info that has waited for eight months
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Sometimes the old standards aren’t quite eloquent enough.
”unwashed, e-coli infested pig rectums” just seems more appropriate in this case.
Well done Betty!
Brachiator
@Jay:
Yes, if the Democrats sweep the election, they will be in a considerable position of strength. But even here, the GOP could pull some procedural stunts, especially in the Senate.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay:
“If” is doing alot of work there. Democrats, especially in the Senate, tend to not work together. Also remember you still have to deal with the filibuster rule in the Senate(60 votes to pass anything except for reconciliation).
Jay
@Another Scott:
as you pointed out, it’s a Democratic Primary, so, the Nostalgia Tour may not be the best message for both the Primary and the Presidential, ( in part because the Primary Messaging carries into the Presidential, bigly),
as for the ReThugs, those up for election care most about their Primaries, not votes in the House and Senate, and the Astroturf Tea Party is dead and buried, it’s now the Trump Party.
Sure, the Kochs, Mercers and the Addelsons can cut uour funding, but the Trumpies will kill you, your family, and your little dog too. It’s not 2016 anymore.
catclub
There s some evidence that Lighthizer has pushed hard to make the agreement acceptable to Democrats. There could be RWNJ holdouts against it for that reason.
I bet he has not mentioned this to Trump.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
“Whipped” is doing the most work. It’s like he doesn’t understand Democrats at all.
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
I’d be surprised but happy. The House has “sole power of impeachment” which means that the Senate does not get to decide when impeachment has happened. At least in my literal reading of the constitution.
Kent
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Agreed. Even if the most rosy best case scenario occurs in 2020 and we win back both the White House and the Senate it will still only be a 50 or 51 or maybe 52 vote majority in the Senate unless a bunch of old establishment red state GOP Senators like John Cornyn or David Purdue get beaten which is unlikely. At best, the 2020 Senate is going to get through one or two really big legislative initiatives. Pick the one or maybe if we are lucky, two that you want to focus on:
Most of the actual action in any 2020 Dem presidency is going to be in executive branch actions, not legislation. Basically rolling back all of the Trump era regulations, executive orders, and general vandalism like de-staffing, with as much due haste as possible. And putting forward Dem priorities through executive action. That doesn’t require anything other than a determined President with experienced and empowered lieutenants.
James E Powell
@cmorenc:
The Number One reason I will never forgive a whole slew of people too long to list here, but I’m sure most of you could name all of them and add a few I forgot about.
Baud
@James E Powell:
I’m with you.
Another Scott
@takebakawashi: McGahn was subpoenaed to testify on April 22. (The DOJ said that McGahn could refuse to testify on Monday May 21.) That’s probably where the 8 months came from (as it’s kinda unheard of to refuse to blow off a subpoena).
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
if you can’t get Manchin to vote for it, you arn’t going to get Kennedy, Gowdy or Jordan. No more earmarks.
If American Democracy is going to survive, you either need a bunch of time travelling 1958 Republicans to arrive in 2020, 2022, 2026 and 2028 etc, to take their old seats back,
or you need to have the ReThugs decimated in every election out 4 terms.
messaging the American Public that “we can still work with ReThugs” isn’t going to do it, not when actual swastika tattooed Nazis are running in ReThug Primaries and managing campaigns.
Hoodie
There is a reason that ad is effective – it speaks to a particular truth. Impeachment is making the presidential election center on international relations and national security, wherein Biden has a big advantage over the rest of the field. After he was elected to the Senate, it seemed like Obama made a point of trying to build up his foreign policy chops, to the point of getting close to folks like McCain. It helped, of course, that opposition to the Iraq War was part of Obama’s appeal.
I may have missed it, but I don’t recall seeing the non-Biden Dem candidates this year doing anything similar. Everything appears to be centered on domestic policy, where presidents often don’t have that much influence. This has the dual effect of scaring people about big changes in domestic policy in a time when the economy is at least somewhat ok (albeit with severe long term structural issues), while doing nothing about a foreign policy situation that is going to shit in a handbag.
I am becoming more comfortable with the idea that the best option for 2020 is to keep giving Joe B-12 injections and having him do his pushups, while at the same time encouraging him to name someone like Harris, Booker, Abrams, Castro, etc. as his VP so they can build some foreign policy cred.
Baud
@Hoodie: Agree. The rest of the field is leaving this area to Biden.
Another Scott
@Another Scott: Er, to
refuse toblow off a subpoena.Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
@Baud:
nope, I understand Democratic Party members, supporters and Representatives just fine.
that’s why there is bipartizan support for the Concentration Camps and Steven Miller.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay: Calling all Republicans Nazi’s isn’t going to get you elected, it won’t win independents over. It’s shrill.
Baud
@Jay:
Right. So you understand that we’re nowhere close to freeing ourselves completely of the current iteration of the GOP.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Just like they pretty much left the moderate lane to Biden.
They left Obamacare and its defense to Biden.
cckids
@Jeffro:
Personally, the Sherman quote I feel is most applicable to today’s Republican party:
“War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.”
takebakawashi
@Another Scott: thanks! that makes sense
Schiff’s phrasing was “eight months for one court decision” but i shouldn’t expect pedantic correctness from a political announcement
Baud
@rikyrah:
Yep. And Pete saw the opening and took advantage of it, although I still don’t think he’ll overtake Biden.
patrick II
If Trump loses, anything he has been cleared of will be considered exculpatory at the trials I hope follow his presidency. The Republicans are going to clear him of anything you send to the Senate. Keep your ammunition dry. Narrow impeachment charges are necessary.
Citizen Alan
@Another Scott:
I detest Joe Biden for these comments. Susie Madrak was right all those years ago — the Republicans are demons from hell and the Democrats are too weak to save us from them.
Jay
@Hoodie
It really depends where one sits in the food chain.
There are reasons why pitchforks, tumbrels, guillotines, socialism, Ok Boomer and GoFundMe’s are trending.
Warren and others have made it pretty clear that this is basically the last chance to stop end stage Capitalism and Capitalism itself.
If it fails, a fat 401k and a gated community arn’t going to be any kind of protection from what comes next.
Miss Bianca
@Cheryl Rofer: Yeah, I’m with you. With lima beans on top.
J R in WV
@joel hanes:
I suspect if the federalist-fascist wing of the Supreme Court destroyed all of the Federal government which acts to protect the population of the US from poisoned food, poisoned water, and poisoned air, you might see some members of the federalist-fascist wing of the Supreme Court impeached and thrown out of town.
I could be wrong, but if they can’t see their way to entering the 21st century of government in the US, I don’t think they are qualified to be jurists. And I think lots of people like protections offered by the government way more than they like “jurists” who see their job as protecting the billionaires stealing from the general population.
The main problem with the right wing is their inability to see the difference between regulations and protections. The EPA protects the populace from rapacious corporations. The FDA protects us from people who think food can be dirt and expect us to eat their dirt. Etc, etc.
Fuck that shit with a finely tuned chainsaw…
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@artem1s: “Time to start asking him whether Biden will order the AG to continue investigating the Trump crime family and GOP election interference if he makes it to the WH.”
I thought liberals were against the President acting as a King and ordering prosecutions.
I mean, that’s the position of Warren and Sanders.
Hoodie
@Jay: Yeah, I get that, but Biden is a probably a 4-year bridge to something else. Right now there’s a national emergency regarding incipient fascism, which is like a communicable disease. When you’re dealing with such an animal, the first step is to isolate it from everyone else. We need to get Barr and the rest of the Trump klavern out of office, protect/repair the State Department and other agencies, or we’ll never be in a position to do something about end stage capitalism. Part of supporting Biden should be to get him to understand that he’s mainly here to slay Trump and give a sizable chunk of the GOP electorate a reason to say they never supported Trump in the first place. You can’t flush 40% of the electorate away, even with 10-15 flushes.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: Everyone forgets poor Amy, a moderate with a legislative record that doesn’t give liberals hives who also wants to build on the ACA. Was reading something yesterday that hinted at Klobuchar-mentum in Iowa. At this point, I hope to Christ it’s true…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV:
But tire rims and anthrax, yum…
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
People forget Amy like they forgot Kamala. I think I would prefer Amy to Pete and Biden but she is having trouble getting going.
Did you see link I left for you up thread?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: I vote on Super Tuesday, and with my first choice out(Kamala), I have to decide who to vote for and right now it’s probably between Joe and Amy.
Ohio Mom
I’m skipping to the end of the thread — I’ll come back later to read my fellow Juicers’ words of wisdom.
Just wanted to say that for months I’ve been muttering to myself, “Why are all my favorite possibilities focusing on domestic issues (health coverage, college costs, etc.), instead of international relations? A president really shapes our relationships with other countries, and has much less sway over domestic issues that have to go through Congress. And our standing in the world is a huge mess thanks to Trump.”
Yes, it’s a long mutter.
Now I see my wish has been granted, by Biden. I’m with Betty on the Lima beans. Maybe I’ll drown them in hot sauce…
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
Cool. You should watch some ZZ Top videos, those guys slow walk around while raising musical hell, as opposed to jumping up and down like the Stones. Which I could never do. But the ZZ Top guys are doing a 50 anniversary tour, and strut slowly around the stage the same way they did when they started out.
You’ll be a star of the musical stage in no time, now that you can do it standing up.
On the other hand, BB King performed sitting down for years after his diabetes made it difficult for him to stand for very long. So whatever works!
Just keep on having fun, that’s the main point!
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I did, thanks!
Duane
@Another Scott: It’s understandable Biden would ask for their vote and not want to argue politics. Maybe try,”Vote for me. I’ll do such a good job, you’ll want to be a Democrat.” More positive and makes you think.
zhena gogolia
@Hoodie:
Same here, since Harris dropped out.
J R in WV
@janesays:
The SCOTUS has nothing to do with Impeachment or the resulting Senate Trial. The Chief Justice presides with a minimal amount of power, bringing the Senate to order is about the limit of his power. But the Supreme Court itself is not even mentioned in the Constitution where Impeachment is defined. Completely absent!
debit
@Mnemosyne: Yes, this.
I also think back to when Obama was meeting with the (at the time) majority House Republicans and essentially said, “I get you have primaries to win, and I get that rhetoric excites your base, but if you call the other side the devil, how are you going to work with them afterward?”
I hate the current crop of republicans. I can’t think of a single one in my lifetime that I could wholeheartedly agree with. But if our only plan is simply to always and forever hold the House and Senate with filibuster and veto proof majorities, we’re fucked.
zhena gogolia
@Hoodie:
Haha, very eloquent!
VeniceRiley
@Kent: In that scenario … Hillary for Veep. Boy, could she hit the ground running. Better yet: Chief of Staff.
zhena gogolia
@debit:
When I watch the hearings, I am utterly appalled at the low level of honesty and intellect among ALL the Republicans. This is why I like to check in on Evan McMullin’s and Tom Nichols’s twitter feeds, to see that there are still tons of Republicans who are disgusted by Trump and Barr and who sometimes sound like jackals, almost. It reminds me that we don’t necessarily have to do it alone, even if the Republicans in Congress are hopeless.
J R in WV
@Jay:
First, bipartisan has no ‘z’ in it, and Fascist Leader Miller’s first name is Stephan, no ‘v’ in it, a minor quibble.
Secondly, if you think there is bipartisan support for Fascist-in-chief Miller and concentration camps, you are past ignorant into crazy! That very support would lock you into the Fascist party and disqualify you for membership in the Democratic Party!
Of course you aren’t from around here, but we do expect a minimal level of observation if you want to opine and be taken seriously. But maybe that isn’t the goal we should be looking at?
ETA: Reading your comment again, I’m beginning to suspect you may become a master of pastry in the near future, as you appear to have little to offer besides amusement.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I don’t know any details, but my initial response is “good for her!”. The President of the United States shouldn’t be allowed to grind citizens under his heal and attempt to ruin their lives.
debit
@zhena gogolia: I have to mute it when the R side screams and shouts. I hate them all so much, especially when I know that they’re lying, just shamelessly lying and don’t care. Not even a little bit.
My hope is that the Republican brand is so tarnished and soiled by Trump and his screamers that a new party will take its place. It’s probably unrealistic, but I think it’s the only way we can continue to have a working two party system. Otherwise it’s just going to be an endless cycle of Ds getting into office just long enough to start fixing things and then Rs sweeping in to trash the place again.
debit
@WaterGirl: I will happily contribute to her legal fund.
Jay
@Hoodie:
Biden, ( so far) is not a 4 year bridge. He’s a DOT condemned bridge with a coat of paint.
domestically, there are massive political and economic changes that need to be rushed through to keep American Democracy and Capitalism as the main form of the private Economy.
and coming down the pipe like a high speed train, ( I know, you guys still don’t have any), is Climate Change, which is going to take resiliant, rapidly adaptable and inclusive communities, economies and political systems to survive.
so far, Biden is positioned as the snooze button on the morning of the life changing exam.
on Foreign Policy, theres a lot of countries out there, that have had much better ideas, for a long, long time, that could take over some of the “heavy lifting” on a lot of issues, with little more than some minor US support, rather than obstruction.
TPPII is an example.
and if you don’t fix your domestic issues, from economic to goverance, then you are just going to reap, what you have been reaping in Foreign Policy Failures, for more than a few decades now.
in 2024, there will be even more empty Red State dead zones, with the same number of electoral votes, Senators and even more crazies. Plus the Supreme and Federal Courts.
as the current case before the Supreme’s highlights, the wheels are about to fall off the bus,…… gutting the EPA, FDA or FAA isn’t going to have big, global impacts. The ROW started moving away to better EU standards during Dubya Dubya Me Too and the pace has only accelerated under Dolt 45, but it will blow up goverance in the US.
Jay
@J R in WV:
guess you missed the letter, I understand, lots and lots going on and you have to dig deep to get past all the Trump, all the time.
it’s tough out there for a squishy Brooksian comity centerist these days, obsessed with grammar and spelling.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jay:
If states have decreased in population, they will have few members of the House and fewer votes in the Electoral College(down to a minimum of 3). 2020 is a Census year and reapportionment will occur prior to the 2022 midterms.
P.S.: I’d rather have a condemned bridge with a coat of paint than a cliff.
TCS
Trump is truly vile. 70 percent the country knows this. No one with half a brain is going to vote for him in November. This might be a unique chance for Democrats to run a candidate that might not be electable in other years. A woman for instance. A real progressive for instance. This is an opportunity to shatter glass ceilings and to move forward. Do not settle for Biden for all the reasons noted in the comments above. We can do better.
Miss Bianca
@Jay: Are you ever going to quit with your “I, in my infinite wisdom as a non-US citizen and non-expert on a staggering variety of subjects, am now going to lecture you Americans on what you need to do” schtick?
Magic Eight-Ball says, “Probably not – subject’s self-infatuation would appear to prohibit the development of any sense of humility.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TCS: But what if it doesn’t work and the Democrat looses? Then we get stuck with Trump for at least(remember he doesn’t believe in the 22nd Amendment) another four years.
ETA: Both my wife and step-daughter think Trump will win re-election, so that might make me more fatalistic about the chances of the Democratic ticket and less apt to though caution to the wind.
J R in WV
@Jay:
That CatCake is really cute! Thanks for allowing me to see it, finally~!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: Heh, guess you found a pastry chef.
TCS
@?BillinGlendaleCA: GOTV and it will work.
TCS
@?BillinGlendaleCA: GOTV and it will work.
大芒果
I could get behind Biden and see it as a good deal if he picks someone like Kamala or Julian Castro as his VP. In all likelihood Biden will only serve one term then step down and pass the torch
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Betty Cracker:
I haven’t forgotten Amy. She is my first choice. I am a moderate, and I don’t want a progressive as president. Any Dem is better than Trump, but if I have to vote for Sanders, it will make me ill. He is the Trump of the left. He won’t get anything long term accomplished (like his Senate record), but he sure will energize the Right.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@TCS:
He has a floor of 43% of the country and 88% of Republicans approve of him. Either you aren’t paying attention, or you are just a troll.
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: I’m glad to see CatCake getting some love! I haven’t pied anyone for real on the new site, so I kind of miss her. :-)
janesays
@J R in WV: Fair enough.
Guess what else isn’t in the Constitution? A rule that says that the Senate cannot begin an impeachment trial until the House brings the articles of impeachment to them, even if they’ve already been passed by the House and the subject of the impeachment inquiry has in fact been impeached.
janesays
@J R in WV:
You’re right that it doesn’t have a “v” in it… but it also doesn’t have an “a” in it, either. It’s Stephen Miller, not Stephan Miller. /pedant
Ruckus
@Jay:
That might be exactly the type of talk that gets republicans to vote for Joe if they don’t want trump. He’s saying grow up and look at what’s happening, vote for someone who isn’t going to burn it down. And that’s his record as well.
Ruckus
@Jay:
Where d
you think republicans got the idea?
Uncle Cosmo
I am morally certain Uncle Joe doesn’t think that. I do believe that a significant fraction of the electorate thinks, or at least hopes, that members of Congress can return to their senses & work together at least some of the time. Biden is saying he hears them, and that’s important, because we need their votes next November to turn a modest victory into an epic rout.
We need that rout to send the bigots & misogynists & general hatemongers slithering back under their rocks. To send a loud message that their shit will not be tolerated by the vast majority of USAns. And to stand guard over those rocks for a generation while the sane & decent people scrub that shit from our public spaces.
We don’t get that rout & we will be fighting the same battles every two years against the big $$$ of the would-be Global Oligarchs trying to orchestrate the destruction of democracy worldwide via its catspaw du jour. Money that never sleeps; money that never dies; money that will outlast us unless we take this chance to stomp on it.
Uncle Cosmo
@TCS: Classic example of (at best) political cluelessness. Are you a newby, a naif, a nitwit, or a nach Trump, uns Bernista hoping to sabotage the Democratic Party?
Uncle Cosmo
@Jay: So lets review: You still can’t spell worth shit (it’s “bipartisanship”), you shot off your mouth about a Senate trial without even bothering to look up the applicable rules still in force, and you’re still talking out of your icehole in the Frozen North to lecture us Yanks about how we should run a country you know fuck-all about. Standard day’s posting work for you.
Someone remind me why this Knucklehead’s still allowed to post here.
TCS
@Uncle Cosmo: I’m a realist. Last I looked, Bernie isn’t a woman.
TCS
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I think that your Trump approval numbers might be high now and will surely be high by November. I am not anti-Biden but , as I said, we can do better. The comfortable candidate may not be the right choice.
Betsy
“lima beans … pig rectums … Tump presidency”
Gasping for breath. Laughing and gasping for breath. For a solid minute.
Thank you, Betty.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@TCS:
They are not high. These are recent. There is absolutely no guarantee they will come down much. My guess is you don’t have too many Republican relatives. They think reputable news sources are biased against Trump and can’t be believed. Nothing will move the dial with those folks. They truly believe progressives are trying to destroy America.
Uncle Cosmo
@J R in WV: You’ve got the Knucklehead of the Frozen North pegged: Can’t spell worth shit**, utterly ignorant of US government, politics & culture, but never shy about lecturing us down here on how to fix things.
I wouldn’t pie him – the stupidity can be quite entertaining.
**NB I provided him the correct spelling of “bipartisan” a couple threads down, but you might as well bay at the moon – Knuck pretty much only posts so he can admire the fruit of his own hunt&pecking.
Uncle Cosmo
@Miss Bianca: Kudos! You nailed the Knucklehead of the Frozen North with panache and dispatch.