*
Ken Vogel at The New York Times has reported that Rudy Giuliani, the President’s personal attorney, is in Kyiv via Budapest. Vogel’s reporting clarifies Giuliani’s tweet from yesterday about a collaboration he is working on with One America News Network (OANN), which is a niche, far right news outlet.
Working on an important project with @OANN, intended to bring before the American people information Schiff (recently disclosed investor in Franklin Templton) “Star chamber” proceedings have covered up. Stay tuned.
— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) December 3, 2019
From The New York Times:
Even as Democrats intensified their scrutiny this week of Rudolph W. Giuliani’s role in the pressure campaign against the Ukrainian government that is at the heart of the impeachment inquiry, Mr. Giuliani has been in Europe continuing his efforts to shift the focus to purported wrongdoing by President Trump’s political rivals.
Mr. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, met in Budapest on Tuesday with a former Ukrainian prosecutor, Yuriy Lutsenko, who has become a key figure in the impeachment inquiry. He then traveled to Kyiv on Wednesday seeking to meet with other former Ukrainian prosecutors whose claims have been embraced by Republicans, including Viktor Shokin and Kostiantyn H. Kulyk, according to people familiar with the effort.
The former prosecutors, who have faced allegations of corruption, all played some role in promoting claims about former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., a former United States ambassador to Ukraine and Ukrainians who disseminated damaging information about Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, in 2016.
Mr. Giuliani is using the trip, which has not been previously reported, to help prepare more episodes of a documentary series for a conservative television outlet promoting his pro-Trump, anti-impeachment narrative. His latest moves to advance the theories propounded by the prosecutors amount to an audacious effort to give the president’s supporters new material to undercut the House impeachment proceedings and an eventual Senate trial.
The European trip was organized around the filming of a multipart television series featuring Mr. Giuliani that is being produced and aired by a conservative cable channel, One America News, or OAN.
OANN has very little actual platform presence. It is not carried by most of the major cable providers and Nielsen doesn’t provide ratings for it. But that’s not the point of making and airing this documentary. The actual purpose of the documentary is to get it made so that it can be aired, in its entirety or in snippets, on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter. This is the sixth line of operation in the domestic Black PSYOP to launder misinformation, disinformation, and agitprop about what actually happened with Russia’s act of war against the US by interfering in the 2016 presidential election in order to blame Ukraine for conspiring with Secretary Clinton, her campaign, as well as the Director of the FBI, the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of Central Intelligence, the Democratic National Committee, Vice President Biden, the mainstream media, and Alexandria Chalupa to steal the election from the President and to frame Russia for doing so. This is, of course, a lie. It is factually inaccurate. And it has been debunked repeatedly.
43% of Americans get their news from Facebook, 21% from YouTube, and 12% from Twitter. And 61% of those who get their news from Facebook are women and 62% of those who get their news from Facebook are white. That’s the primary target for the Black PSYOP’s sixth line of operation. The secondary targets are everyone they share it with and everyone who sees it once it is picked up and covered by mainstream news media outlets. Once OANN makes and broadcasts the video, the video in its entirety, as well as the soundbites edited for the most informational influence and effect, will be weaponized through Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter to promote this misinformation, disinformation, and agitprop.
The real problem in trying to deal with this evolving Black PSYOP is that everyone keeps responding as if Walter Cronkite was still anchoring the nightly news. So the Black PSYOP is being conducted without actually discussing and understanding how information, especially news as a type of information, is experienced by Americans in 2019 as opposed to 1974! The news media, the candidates, and their campaigns need to get their heads around this reality. And they need to come up with strategies for dealing with it, as well as with the Black PSYOP campaign and its various lines of operations that are exploiting it so that Americans aren’t so misinformed that they cannot determine what is and is not true, factual, and real.
Open thread!
* I have chosen this image because it is an inversion of the actual Psychological Operations Regimental Crest – the knight is facing the wrong way and the colors are black. I have done so to symbolize the inversion and misuse of psychological operations against Americans. Propagandizing American citizens by members of the government is illegal under The 1991 Intelligence Authorization Act.
The actual crest for the US Army Psychological Operations Regiment is a golden knight rampant to dexter (in profile and facing left) with two golden thunderbolt bladed swords crossed behind it surrounded by a laurel wreath. The motto is “Persuade, Change, Influence”. The crest is described as:
The laurel wreath symbolizes honor and achievement. The center device is adapted from the Psychological Operations collar insignia. The chess knight represents the ability to act obliquely and influence all types of warfare. The lightning bolt swords denote speed and the ability to strike anywhere. The silver gray, white and black represent the three types of Psychological Operations. White represents the overt processes, black is for the covert and gray for the hidden. The Insignia was authorized November 18, 1998.
Mary G
I think you mean Black Psyop VI, not IV. I know pedants annoy you and I usually refrain, but today I am indulging myself.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: This is the fourth post in the series.
Mary G
OT: This cat makes me think of Steve bitching for food:
Yarrow
Given that the Kids These Days don’t seem to be using Facebook very much I’d guess that group also trends older.
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: My apologies.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Yep.
randy khan
I’m pretty sure that’s a knight, not a rook.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
That’s a knight, not a rook.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: No worries. My fault for leaving “Part” out before the “IV”. I’ve adjusted the title to avoid further confusion.
Baud
@Mary G:
Sounds like a remake of a 1970s blacksploitation film.
Mike in DC
Can SDNY indict him and have FBI agents arrest him at LaGuardia on his return?
Adam L Silverman
@randy khan:
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
I fixed it. This is what 7 hours of teleconferences followed by finishing just in time to hear Congressman Gaetz interrogate witnesses does to someone’s brain function.
misterpuff
Love you Dude but…
The chess piece is a knight not a castle-like rook.
The insignia is bad-ass though. As is their mode of action.
Hopefully, we are giving back equal measure to the Russkies.
Mike in NC
The series should be directed by King of All Media and convicted felon Dinesh D’Souza.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: So, old white ladies are the target audience. Not sure that’s a group whose votes or opinions will be changed. I mean, they’re already for Trump (as a demographic). Do they want them to get even more for Trump or something?
feebog
I guess the question now is whether they can wrap this propaganda turd before Rudy is indicted.
Adam L Silverman
@misterpuff: As I indicated in comment 12, I’ve fixed it. I had a very, very long day am brain fried and have moved today’s lift to tomorrow. Though I will be walking the doggies in a bit.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: I don’t know.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: I wonder if they know what they’re doing. Suburbs and the white ladies who live there are moving away from Trump so not sure this Rudy propaganda film is going to change that.
mrmoshpotato
@Mike in NC: That’s Dinesh D’Felon. Thank you very much. And I can imagine what batshittery it would be. I’ve watched reviews by CinemaSnob of D’Felon’s stuff and hoo boy!
Raven
Have Gun
Will Travel
Wire Paladin
San Francisco
WereBear
Where is Cordwainer Smith when you need him most?
Origuy
What is the deal with Schiff and Franklin Templeton? How is that bad? You miss one day and you lose a plot point!
misterpuff
Greatest Business Card Evah!
Yarrow
mrmoshpotato
@WereBear: Arlington National Cemetery, Section 35, Grave Number 4712
debbie
@Mary G:
Have they stopped the water therapy?
japa21
@Adam L Silverman: Even 1 minute of Gaetz would have finished whatever synapse frying hadn’t been done before then. Hell, it would have finished the job even without the 7 hours.
mrmoshpotato
@Origuy: Or it’s a big ol’ nothing cooked up by the Russthuglicans.
FelonyGovt
Who the hell is paying for the great Rudy Giuliani to fly all over the world chasing crackpot conspiracy bullshit? Probably we (US taxpayers) are.
CaseyL
@Raven: Oh, how I loved that show. I wonder if it’s streaming anywhere….
mrmoshpotato
@FelonyGovt: Mexico!
WereBear
@mrmoshpotato: Thanks. And I still have his body of work :)
From my limited experience, they are reinforcing people who already support their wild fantasies and constantly changing lies. Apparently they are worse than goldfish when it comes to what their idols said yesterday.
But it makes their base more stubborn and entrenched, I guess
And dangerous. There’s that.
Yarrow
HAHAHAHAHA!
trnc
It’s the greatest show on earth. It’s the weirdest show on the planet.This show sucks.Roger Moore
@FelonyGovt:
As I understand it, his nominal source of income are people across the world who are paying him to influence Trump, and they’re the ones who are paying for his travel. Indirectly, of course, the influence he’s buying costs all of us far more than he’s being paid, which is why his employers are willing to pay for it.
mrmoshpotato
@trnc: Dump’s investigators have found the bigliest things about Obummer in Hawaii!
japa21
@CaseyL:
@Raven: Little bit of Trivia. One of the few series that started on television and then later was produced as a radio series. Did person playing Paladin, of course. Otherwise, all the same characters.
Both were well done. But even though the voice was different on radio, all I could ever visualize was Richard Boone’s face.
Mary G
More good news, because I am suffering from Trump fatigue, especially the faux outrage about using Barron’s name in public:
The state of Texas had fined them $121,875. They paid and kept dumping. They tried to argue that the feds could not get involved.
Gin & Tonic
Funny, my son was hoping to run into him in Kyiv, but he doesn’t hang out at the kinds of places Rudy frequents. But on this trip, it seems Rudy doesn’t either.
President Zelensky apparently learned of Rudy’s arrival from media reports and has no plans to meet with him.
Jeffro
@Yarrow: I can say anecdotally that yes, my very old and white and female mom gets most of her news via FB
Martin
@Origuy: I think it’s something like money was going to flow from Burisma through Franklin Templeton and because Schiff has an account there, he was profiting from the scheme.
Which is basically equivalent to saying that because you and I both have Netflix, we’re now officially married.
SFAW
@Origuy:
Clearly, Schiff orchestrated the murder of Sir John Templeton, in order to cover up his collusion with Ukraine, and how Sir John funded the CrowdSplunge hacking of the
Trump CampaignDNC and Pentagon servers, and then used the leftover money to pay for the murder ofVince FosterSeth Rich.I’m pretty sure it has absolutely nothing to do with Franklin Templeton being one of the marquee global stocks investment firms for the last 50 years or so, and Schiff wanting to invest his money wisely. [Note: I have no idea what their investing record/performance is these days.]
Jeffro
I think back when David Brock’s “The Republican Noise Machine” was published, it might have been strategic for the Dems to buy every household in America a copy. That’s all we’re seeing here – the well-funded RW puke funnel in action (albeit in the service of a hostile foreign power and its puppet this time)
SFAW
@Martin:
I don’t mind that you didn’t invite me to the wedding, but I think it would have been polite to let the Juiceitariat know a little bit sooner, instead of in this offhand manner.
Did either of you wear white?
Luthe
I’m sure someone has already mentioned this, but it seems acquitted murderer George Zimmerman has run through all the cash the rubes gave him and is now suing his victim’s family for $100 million.
We need to burn it all down and start over.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: I suppose they think if they so muddle this up, that they can get older suburban women so confused that they’ll throw up their hands and come home to vote Republican.
trnc
That should be ONAN since it appears to be a completely masturbatory endeavor.
Adam L Silverman
@CaseyL: Broadcast every day at 8 and 8:30 AM EST on H&I network on cable/satellite.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Well, statistically the older white suburban women were always voting Republican and that hasn’t changed. It’s the younger suburban women who have flipped. And of course women of color were already voting Dem. They see who’s threatening them.
SFAW
@Luthe:
Trayvon’s family? Seriously?
Gin & Tonic
Who knows, maybe Rudes went for dinner here.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: Mazel Tov!
Adam L Silverman
@Luthe: Larry Klayman is his lawyer, so…
Unfortunately, this is in a Florida district court in Polk County, FL, so it is entirely likely he will win.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Fortunately, I’m not working with them, so all I can do is watch and analyze based on the same information you have.
different-church-lady
Zuckerberg is never going to punished for what he’s done to our society, is he.
Adam L Silverman
@SFAW: And their attorney, the prosecutors, and several media outlets.
Adam L Silverman
@different-church-lady: If I understand correctly, Senator Warren has a plan for that. Which, if I’m following, involves a spanking and sending him to be without his supper.//
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: So the judge is Floriduh Man?
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: My guess is that the film is a cover or just a grifting opportunity. It’s covering for the real purpose of the trip, which is something to do with destroying evidence, fabricating evidence on the Bidens, strongarming people to protect himself and more things along those lines.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: The whole point of all of this is to keep the story in the news so that everyone knows that the Bidens are being investigated or looked into, fabricate evidence, then get that material packaged for laundering. And to line Rudy’s pockets.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Oh, sure. And to create those short clips that circulate so easily on social media.
Do you know who funds OANN? They’ve been around awhile. Tomi Lahren got her start there. Sarah Palin filled in for someone over there for a week several years ago.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
I didn’t think that part needed to be spelled out anymore. If a Republican is involved with anything, he’s probably lining his pockets.
hw3
@Adam L Silverman Thank you for publishing this line of thinking. I don’t think many truly understand the weaponization of social media which has occurred this decade. I also read an interesting article in the same vein over at the MIT Technology Review “How Memes Got Weaponized: A Short History” link
The modern GOP has locked itself in a bubble of epistemic closure which no facts are allowed, and as a result, these targeted propaganda pieces will resonate perfectly with their already fantasy world.
Jay
Jeffro
It’s like LOST, only far too literally
Roger Moore
@Yarrow:
Wikipedia says they’re owned by Herring Networks, which is owned by Robert Herring. It’s possible that, like Faux News, they’re profitable and don’t need a sugar daddy to prop them up. One of the benefits of broadcasting to conservatives is that you have an audience of self-selected rubes, which is a valuable commodity.
Hungry Joe
@Raven: I was pretty young when “Have Gun, Will Travel” was on, which I hope excuses my thinking that Richard Boone’s character’s first name was Wire. (I don’t think we were ever told his real name.)
Jeffro
Several different vectors of disparaging comments are coming to mind here. And yet, just being Tomi Lahren or Sarah Palin is punishment enough, so never mind.
Jay
@Yarrow:
it’s not a threat, it’s a promise.
Funny how Food Stamps and other similar programs are a significant form of Fam/Ag Welfare.
Hungry Joe
Jay
Hungry Joe
Yarrow
@Roger Moore
Thanks. Just had a look at Robert Herring. From his Wikipedia page:
Sounds like a true believer.
Jay
If you remember Dubya Dubya Me Too’s “Coelition of the Willing”, then this is just being lazy passing for satire.
UncleEbeneezer
Adam, have you (or any of your colleagues from this field) considered reaching out to some of the frontrunners’ campaigns (or the DNC) to try to get them to start planning for how to deal with this? I would hope that somebody would be willing to listen.
dm
Hi, Adam,
I just finished Christopher Wylie’s Mindf*ck — Cambridge Analytica and the plot to break America, and was wondering what you thought of it. Asking is appropriate in this thread, since he details Cambridge Analytica’s psyops and how they applied them in campaigns Wylie witnessed, including the 2014 US mid-term (he left Cambridge Analytica in 2015).
For those not as familiar with psyops as Adam, I think the book is worthwhile. He talks a lot about the pyschological techniques Cambridge Analytica used, and the sorts of vulnerabilities they exploited.
Jay
@Yarrow:
making the offer get’s the 1%er Winger cred, Faux Snooze coverage with out ever having to spend one thin cent.
and $1 million covers how many days in the US medical system?
Amir Khalid
@FelonyGovt:
Since Rudy G works for Donald Trump and not for POTUS, why would Uncle Sam be picking up even one cent of Rudy’s travel tab?
David 🎃🧙Booooooo🧙🎃 Koch
@Baud: starring Fred Williamson
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: It’s owned by Herring Networks.
bloomberg.com/profile/company/1286333D:US
Jay
apnews.com/3f58c7dee65f8c060158e37914e30154
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: They’re going to launch a peloton at Mar a Lago.//
Adam L Silverman
@Hungry Joe: You okay?
mrmoshpotato
@Luthe: Zimmerman should skydive into the Atlantic.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Sure but sometimes it’s owned by X but really funded by Y. Wasn’t sure if this was one of those situations.
Adam L Silverman
@UncleEbeneezer: Someone very well placed pushed several assessments on this I did and my CV with a recommendation to every campaign they had a contact on. No one got back to him or to me.
Adam L Silverman
@dm: I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: I have no idea other than Herring Networks and the guy who owns that.
Roger Moore
@Jay:
That’s not really relevant, since the $1 million was a bribe to her husband to give up his guardianship of her, at which point he wouldn’t have been paying for her care anymore. I think it was based on the calumny that Michael Schaivo wanted Terry dead so he could make off with the money set aside for her care; he was offering more money than that to try to get Michael to give up his guardianship.
surfk9
@Adam L Silverman: Our NATO allies must have a lot of shit on Trump. When and how do they release it to make sure that it is most effective, invisible as to the source and does the most damage to Trump who jeopardizes the alliance? Just thinking this through after the events at the summit.
Jay
PJ
@Adam L Silverman: So OANN is owned by Herring Networks, eh? Sounds a little fishy.
I’ll see myself out.
FelonyGovt
@Amir Khalid: Why indeed? But I think somewhere along the line, it will be on the American taxpayers’ tab.
dm
@Adam L Silverman: It’s a combination memoir (how he grew up to be a senior researcher at Cambridge Analytica at 24, while working on his PhD), and popularized technical discussion of their techniques from the perspective of someone who implemented them.
Here’s a review by Clint Watts of the book:
washingtonpost.com/outlook/inside-the-unscrupulous-world-of-social-media-manipulation-with-a-peniten…
He writes of it:
Jay
@Roger Moore:
nope, he was just trying to get Winger cred and Faux Snooze coverage with out ever spending a single thin cent.
He would have crapped his drawers and come up with more excuses than Rudi Petootie had any sign of accepting his offer been advanced,
money talks, bullsh!t walks is another old maxim the USMSM has conveniently forgotten,….
Jay
@surfk9:
NATO doesn’t play that sort of game.
UncleEbeneezer
@Adam L Silverman: Ugh. I get that they probably have limited resources and are focussed on the Primary etc., but ugh…
Jay
Jay
surfk9
@Jay: this is an existential moment, it would seem that all bets are off
dm
@Adam L Silverman: get that well-placed person to forward your CV to Crooked Media. I’m thinking an interview on one of their podcasts could lead to things happening.
Or to David Plouffe at PACRONYM.
Jay
@surfk9:
NATO exists at a variety of different levels.
There is Grunt to Grunt,
Geek to Geek,
Brass to Brass,
As long as there are the strategic, technical, intelligence and tactical levels of coordination ongoing,
The political leaders of NATO countries will at best, cold shoulder Trumpistas or “correct them”.
At the intelligence levels, what can be shared is shared, but
Now of course, there are aspects that are not shared because Trump and the Trumpistas endanger OpSec.
As an example, NATO and Turkey, who’s political leadership has been edging towards bugnuts a lot longer than the US.
Jay
thetyee.ca/Culture/2019/12/03/Heart-Electric-Bird/
This ain’t no flying Prius. It’s a Tesla with wings, 100-per-cent battery powered. “A Harbour Air ePlane will have zero reliance on fossil fuels and produce zero emissions,” reads the airline’s press release.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Who the hell puts their own words into a quote? Scare quotes are normally used to mock somebody else’s words. It’s as if Schiff was calling own impeachment inquiry proceedings a “star chamber” according to Guiliani
surfk9
@Jay: Thank you for pointing that out. I suppose that I was asking the question as a hypothetical. If Trump were perceived as a Russian asset and a danger to the alliance, and there was politically explosive material that would sink Trump’s campaign, how would you use that if you thought that it would save the alliance? I am asking this in the context of this thred being about psy-ops
Adam L Silverman
@surfk9: When it is in their strategic interest to do so.
mrmoshpotato
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Booga booga booga!
Adam L Silverman
@dm: It’s in the queue.
Adam L Silverman
@UncleEbeneezer: It is what it is.
Honestly, I think a lot of it as the campaign professionals think they’re running campaigns under normal circumstances, because that’s what they know how to do, even as they also know it is not normal circumstances. But they can’t let go of their defaults. And I’m also pretty sure the campaign communications specialists would be the ones asked about bringing me on to consult and I’d be perceived as a threat. Remember, the sole purpose of all of these campaign folks is to get as close as possible to the candidate and stay there – not win the campaign. That way if the candidate does win, they can get political appointments if they want them. And if not, they’ve made a ton of money losing.
ellie
@Mary G: She is so svelte! And so pretty!
Adam L Silverman
@dm: Here’s promoted me and my stuff appropriately and widely. None of those folks are interested in talking to me. I was neither senior enough as an appointed (civilian mobilization) Department of the Army civilian or DOD civilian, nor close enough to the power centers in DC to be of any interest to them.
Story of my professional life: I worked my self up to a level just senior enough to actually make it impossible for me to get further assignments. No one has any interest of hiring me on the civil service side, because I spent over a decade as a supervisory GS 15 on various civilian mobilization. They won’t hire me as a GS 15 because no one brings in someone that senior they don’t know. And they won’t hire me for more junior positions because I’m too senior. And since I wasn’t senior enough and because I didn’t work in the National Capitol Region, I can’t just pick up the phone, make a call, and tell someone I want to come work for them and have it happen. And the sequester has just made it worse and worse. I have an impressive CV, a ton of experience and expertise, a great set of very senior military leaders as references, and if I had $5 I could buy a cup of over roasted coffee at Starbucks.
tomtofa
@Hungry Joe:
There was a tie-in book that expanded the TV episode “Genesis”, about Paladin getting his start. In the book his name is Clay Alexander. No name was ever mentioned on the show.
Jay
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: enlist as an E-1 and work your way up!
Jay
@surfk9:
another way of putting it, is NATO will “burn down the house”, when they all agree that it is the only means, of controlling the infestation.
given that NATO is primarily a Military Organization and Alliance, that pretty much means a shooting war.
until then, it’s a cold shoulder and jokes at America’s expense.
UncleEbeneezer
@dm: I also dropped a question on PSAmerica’s Twitter page (where they were soliciting questions.). I definitely would think this would be of interest to them considering they talk about the Dems’ need to seriously plan for/combat this expected rat-fucking, fairly regularly.
Jeffro
I read it a
Few weeks ago and was, well, mind blown m@dm:
surfk9
@Adam L Silverman: My wife works for the Feds. they are not hiring at all levels. They are actively pursuing policies to get people to quit
debbie
@surfk9:
Something else that will change when we get that 🤡 out of the White House.
Adam L Silverman
@surfk9: I’m all too aware. Believe me. I’d very much like to stop being a consultant and get onto a suitable FTE position.
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: has no one given you any good ideas today?
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: No, it won’t. Even on the DOD and Intel side, where the sequester was waived every year, the sequester did what it was intended to do: trained the system to spend as little as possible. And this includes on hiring. Everyone was expecting the start, over the past couple of years, of a wave of openings as the most senior generation of civil servants began to retire. This would open up positions for people to move up internally, as well as those of us who are bouncing from term positions on civilian mobilizations and term appointments and contracts into full time equivalent civil service positions. None of that happened. And because the system has now been thoroughly trained to not hire anyone and, if someone has to be hired, to do so at the lowest rank possible, none of that is going to happen.
Adam L Silverman
@Steve in the ATL: It was a very, very long day. With a lot of good ideas that may, perhaps, one day, eventually, perhaps lead to something positive.
Kayla Rudbek
@surfk9: absolutely agree with this. And management at my employer seems to be even more determined to drive people out by implementing bad policies, with the union falling over backwards to accommodate them IMAO. I’m sure that there will be a huge wave of retirements as a result.
Just Chuck
Come on, blazon it right. Fieldless, a chess knight rampant dexter Or over two thunderbolts hilted Or within a laurel wreath.
Or something. Wouldn’t pass the SCA college of heralds, that’s for damn sure.