One reason why Obama attempts to rally the base for moderates may be in his difficulty abiding a Democratic Party that even intimates that he failed to tangibly benefit the lives of the working class. https://t.co/z93AKXUzgO
— David Dayen (@ddayen) November 22, 2019
The Cosplay Socialists are determined to set up President Obama as the next ‘No True Progressive’ boogeymonster. (Hillary can’t live forever, and Liz Warren is just not ‘unlikeable’ enough for their needs.) As LBJ once said, “… it gives him a warm feeling, but nobody else much notices.”
But they will definitely work their hardest (wearing blisters on their thumbs, as they batter the social media barricades) to ensure that Preznit NObama never gets a third term…
… I’m sure Obama is confident enough in his political radar that he truly believes his path is the only viable one. It’s probably why he intervened to install Tom Perez over Keith Ellison as chair of the DNC. And he has been railing against imagined enemies like “certain left-leaning Twitter feeds” and “wokeness,” not just recently but for years. But there’s something brittle in this approach. A two-term president who engenders generally warm feelings among the population should not be so sensitive to criticism. Perhaps he reveals too much in his prickliness.
The truth is that Obama, who reiterated his comments to donors in San Francisco on Thursday, presided over a country where inequality continued to worsen, where dominant monopolies continued to consolidate, where regions continued to slip behind a handful of cities on the coasts, where all of the post-recession gains went to those at the top. Obama wasn’t the only factor in this sclerotic improvement; he was handed a deep recession by his predecessor and a right-wing Congress two years into his tenure. But those electoral losses, among the largest for a two-term president since World War II, do reflect the inadequacies of market-driven incrementalism to deliver accountability for the sins of the financial crisis and tangible relief to the millions who suffered as a consequence. If it did, the wealthy donors Obama spends time with while criticizing the left would have less in their bank accounts…
But let’s be honest about the endgame. Obama is intervening on behalf of a cramped, self-censoring politics, one that dreams big but fights small, one that comforts the well-off by assuring them their fortunes will be safe and the game will proceed to their benefit. He has said, according to the Times, that the eventual primary winner “will come back to me when they need me,” and they will. But they might not come back to his policies, and that’s apparently unacceptable…
This is pure fanfiction. (I know the genre; I wrote some of it, back in my late teens, when it was just us Trekkies & the term hadn’t entered into popular use.) It’s a little too dense and allusive for non-believers to follow, but that’s part of the appeal. We few, we happy few, who understand the Canon and cannot be led astray by arguments about ‘verisimilitude’ or ‘scientific possibility’…
You wrote an entire article based off of Obama making a single (pretty innocuous) observation that most Americans don’t want to “completely tear down the system”?
— Pumpkin’s Owner (@MattandPumpkin) November 23, 2019
Obama favoring the wealthy & their candidates
Something something Tom Perez [Who’s implemented a neoliberal agenda at the DNC by doing…uh…uh…reasons]
Something guy never in his administration/Repub mayor/no mention off woman who conceived CPPB created under Obama something! https://t.co/9lXSe7NswR
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) November 23, 2019
Yeah, let's leverage the most popular president in recent history to lose the next election, shall we. Good God.
— M̵͘e҉̵̧̀n̢̛̕҉͢t́͠͡a̵̢l̶͏Ẁ̵i̸͘m͘͜͝p̶̵͘͜͡ (@timrchurch) November 23, 2019
Ask Vlad? While you’re at it get some “proof of Life” for Maria Butina…
— vikes (@VLanghiari34) November 23, 2019
Doug R
When Obama said that the armchair left should be a little less outraged online and actually do something, looks like he hit a nerve.
Duane
Or, it’s possible that Obama knows how to win. Results matter as the saying goes. The hell with the unicorn I’ll take eight years of a solid Democratic president.
rikyrah
robmassing
Only Democrats have agency. “Sure, he faced a Republican Party that waged a full scale war against him, and he nonetheless signed the most progressive expansion of the welfare state since LBJ, but something something neoliberal something.”
John Revolta
I’ve noticed a definite uptick in this Didn’t. Even. Try. crap on a few sites lately. Fuckem.
In related news, Mrs. Revolta just re-upped her health insurance on the Exchange today. (I’m on the Medicare train now.) Thanks Obama!
Mikeindublin
Dayden has always hated Obama. I remember his days of writing for the firebaggers.
He has his audience and knows he’ll get much praise and accolades from them to make him feel better about himself.
piratedan
I’m sure that Mr. Dayen felt that the Obama administration lacked pizzazz too…
Mnemosyne
Sadly, Dayen is one of those bloggers who freaked out when a Black man became the boss of him. He’s still not over it.
Martin
My beloved congresswoman is now a co-chair for Warren’s campaign. Wasn’t sure how she’d handle her loyalties between Warren and Harris. Now I know.
AxelFoley
@Martin:
And knowing is half the battle!
Redshift
I have an old friend who I’d mostly fallen out of touch with, who is definitely a cosplay socialist (or even a cosplay anarchist.) I ran across him in some online forum on 2016; he was a Berner, of course, and the phrase that stuck with me was “obviously, Obama was a grave disappointment…”
I was a bit too stunned to respond at the time, but what I thought was, “if you’re calling the person who is far and away the most popular politician about Democrats ‘a grave disappointment,’ I do hope you’re not surprised you’re not winning.”
Hob
I’m pretty sure that neither Tom Perez himself or Keith Ellison himself attached as much importance to the decision between Perez and Ellison for DNC chair as certain online opinion-havers did (and, apparently, still do). Yeah, Perez sure was the total opposite of the glorious leadership we would’ve gotten with Ellison— so much so that after Obama “intervened to install” him (which I guess is what we’re calling endorsements now), he immediately hired Ellison as his #2. We’d really better purge the party of the kind of people who would work with a neoliberal like Perez or appear at events with him, like… uh… Bernie Sanders.
I’ve read enough of Dayen’s actual reporting to know that he’s not a total fool, but what the fuck.
Amir Khalid
@rikyrah:
On this point I am in total agreement with the Speaker. Impeachment is a process for protecting the nation from unfit offcials, not a tool for partisan politics.
Amir Khalid
Today I went to my favourite guitar shop and paid a 30% deposit on a Squier Standard Telecaster in Vintage Blonde. This will be the Tele I keep in standard EADGBE tuning, while The Girl will be in Keef tuning (i.e. five-string open G). I am considering a name.
Mary G
@Martin: Doesn’t she go way back with Warren/a student in her Harvard Law class? Katie is a real star.
divF
@Amir Khalid: Name her after Debbie Harry, another Vintage Blonde.
Sab
@Amir Khalid: I totally agree with the Speaker also. Impeachment is a wrenching process, overturning an election.
I was pro-impeachment in Bush Ws first term, when he started the Iraq war (after his extremely questionable election.) When he won “re-election” I had to admit that he was who we wanted.
I also agree with the Speaker now. We have an utter disregard for law in the Executive branch. We can’t ignore or finess it.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
Obama hates the working class. Which is why he spent years as a community organizer helping displaced industrial workers.
Sab
@David ??Booooooo?? Koch: All leftish politicians should be community organizers. Odd concept: talk to your actual voters. That raises the awkward concept distinction between lecturing your voters and communicating with your voters.
Obama got it. That is where I am sorting out my primary candidates. Also why I have about three front runners: Warren, Harris and another.
Can they LISTEN? Obama could do that. He didn’t always agree, but he could listen and respond. And I was adamantly team Hillary all through the ’08 primaries. I thought he was just a promising young man. That is why we have primaries.
OzarkHillbilly
Considering the fact that impeachment by it’s very structure is a political process, I think Ms Pelosi is being a little disingenuous here. She wants to spin the proceedings differently than the Republican narrative of “It’s a witch hunt!” but actual guilt or innocence will not decide the result. What will decide it is the GOP’s perception of whether or not their base cares if trump is guilty or not. If the base is unmoved, and I’m pretty sure FOX and Sinclair will see to that, the GOP will be unmoved and 2/3s of the Senate will not vote for removal.
And it’s on to the 2020 elections, which is after all, the real goal. If the GOP pays for it’s sins at the polls there will be hope for the republic. If not, it’s game over.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Because health care means nothing to us blue collar folks. I mean Obama should be proud ACAC is so successful people have forgotten he started it since it means it’s hear to stay.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
Didn’t need to a psychic to see this coming. :-)
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@rikyrah: So despite two days of shocking testimony the process is a failure because of some pols taken before it?
Of course the poles are going to show support drop once the fight starts. Both side are at fault High Broderism isn’t something the press came up with by itself. That’s why the Democrats didn’t want to do it and had to forced to by the public because they knew everyone would scream “oh the awful violence” when it started.
OzarkHillbilly
anarchoRex
@Redshift: I mean his record on foreign policy, civil rights, and deportations is pretty damn disappointing.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: If he hadn’t survived, he wouldn’t be deported..
There is so much wrong with that article, I don’t know where to start. By hiring undocumented workers, they are protecting themselves from lawsuits. wtf Maybe this is who we were all along, and I ignored it.
OzarkHillbilly
There is hope for us after all.
Chyron HR
@anarchoRex:
Bernie Sanders is a gun-humping white nationalist, but sure, let’s talk about Obama’s “record”.
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: Yeah, let’s just gloss over the record for most deportations ever.
Chyron HR
@anarchoRex:
Don’t forget his equally fictitious record of massive social security cuts!
Baud
@rikyrah: Perfect answer from Pelosi.
Baud
Is Prospect like Jacobin?
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: They are always at risk of abuse because speaking up has real repercussions.
Worked on a job with an electrician out of Texas. He told me a story of Texas job site safety. One of the guys he worked with was an undocumented Mexican. At the end of a Friday they were wrapping things up for the wkend. The Mexican wanted to finish up a task he was working on in the main panel. They all said OK and left.
He was still there come Monday morning. I won’t say he was a smoking ruin but you get the idea. What did the superintendent do?
“GET THIS GODDAMN WETBACK OFF MY JOB SITE!!!!”
And they dumped his body in the desert.
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: What the fuck are you talking about: nydailynews.com/news/politics/obama-deported-record-number-immigrants-trump-claim-article-1.2774180
Chyron HR
@anarchoRex:
Oh, okay, you prefer Trump building death camps to deportations. Got it.
So at any point in the last 3 years did the alleged “left” ever consider the possibility that Bernie lost the Democratic primary in a landslide because he and his supporters openly and vocally hate Democrats? Don’t you think that might have at least slightly handicapped him?
OzarkHillbilly
Heh: “But her emails!”
The Republican outrage machine will kick into full gear in 3… 2… 1… Never.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@anarchoRex: Why did Bernie vote for Dump’s racist wall?
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: Jesus Christ, dude, why don’t you just address Obama’s record instead of whatabouting Bernie into this conversation.
anarchoRex
@David ??Booooooo?? Koch: I dunno, why does Bernie have the most progressive immigration platform out of everyone running?
ETA: also, what’s the source for that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: Didn’t used to be. Matt Yglesias and Ezra Klein both worked there early in their careers, IIRC.
The conviction that Obama could have passed “X” bills if he’d yelled louder or been angrier runs deep on rose twitter. Joe Lieberman and Blanche Lincoln would have voted for Single Payer and Bazillion Dollar Stimulus is Obama had tried! It’s why they’re convinced Bernie can rule by righteous bellowing and have no apparent interest in or ideas about how to get McConnell out of the majority leader’s position.
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: wow. I’m flagging this.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@anarchoRex: Why did Bernie repeatedly vote against immigration reform and go on the racist Lou Dobbs show and scapegoat immigrants for stagnant wages?
Did his NRA paymasters NRA tell their Vermont puppet to do so.
JPL
@Chyron HR: Whose quote is that?
anarchoRex
@David ??Booooooo?? Koch: Damn you got me, it’s almost like politicians aren’t perfect. Bernie used to have shit positions on immigration and gun control. Now he’s as liberal on those as anybody else running for president. I’ve got stakes in both issues, and I’ll take him at his word that he’s changed. You can feel free not to.
Since we’re truth-telling here, am I allowed to broach certain policy areas where maybe Obama wasn’t ideal? Or is that verboten?
anarchoRex
Can anyone help me figure out how to flag a comment without having to send the front-pagers an email from my personal account? Comment in question: balloon-juice.com/2019/11/23/sad-trombone-open-thread-when-the-poles-on-the-horseshoe-snap-together/…
I didn’t see anything about how to actually flag a comment in the comment policy.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
How does attacking Obama gain you a vote in a Democratic primary?
I understand if you were running for the Green Party or the Socialist Party or the Republican Party attacking Obama would be popular. But even Tulsi Gabbard ran for her life Wednesday night when Kamala brought up her history of attacking Obama. Even she wouldn’t touch that 3rd rail on live tee vee.
No wonder Bernie’s losing by double digits to a 37 year old, unknown, small town Mayor. His cult never stops alienating rank and file Democrats.
Sad!
anarchoRex
@David ??Booooooo?? Koch: So it’s verboten, got it. And I’m the one that’s supposedly in a cult…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
One reason why Obama attempts to rally the base for moderates may be in his difficulty abiding a Democratic Party that even intimates that he failed to tangibly benefit the lives of the working class
I’m always fascinated by arguments like this by would-be wonks like Dayen. Google tells me 13.6 million people gained health coverage from the Medicaid expansion in Obamacare. Does Dayen think those people are “working class”? Obama saved the auto industry. Are UAW workers “banksters” in the mind of Dayen and his fellow travelers?
satby
@anarchoRex: Because Obama wasn’t a dictator and was stymied by a completely oppositional Congress in everything and he still accomplished a great deal, that’s why. Blaming Obama for the failures of the legislative branch (remember them, they write laws?) is dishonest.
AxelFoley
@anarchoRex: Yes, you are, motherfucker.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@anarchoRex: If he changed, why did he vote for Dump’s racist wall, just this year?
As Mimi Rocah said, “Bernie Sanders makes my skin crawl.”
sukabi
@Sab: it’s not “over turning an election”, it’s exposing an unfit person, admonishing and possibly removing them from an office they are abusing. It’s the constitutional means of firing an unfit employee.
The “over turning” bullshit is framing put up by the repubs and used by some of the media to give cover and politicize the act instead of addressing the unfitness of the president.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If it wasn’t for Obama, tens of millions of workers would have been standing in bread lines, suffering through a 2nd Great Depression.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Oh good lord, Sandars’ is the TRUE liberal, except when he’s not, and that’s ok because Sandars had his fingers crossed so didn’t he mean it at the time. Ok Boomer.
anarchoRex
@satby: I listed civil rights, foreign policy, and deportations. Those are all areas under executive control, and Congress has little to do with them.
What argument do you think I’m making where bringing up the legislature is cogent?
anarchoRex
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: dead meme bro
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Congress has little to do with immigration laws and civil rights
also: DRONZZZZE
anarchoRex
@David ??Booooooo?? Koch: It’s pretty rich to get lectured on immigration when the Democratic party as a whole has for decades been part and parcel of building the modern border-immigration-carceral system. Trump didn’t make his nightmare immigration program out of whole cloth, he inherited the tools left by past presidents and legislatures of both parties.
anarchoRex
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And exactly how successful has Congress been in stopping Trumps border regime? Congress enforces laughably little oversight over the president. No one in congress forced Obama to go after whistle blowers.
And yes, drones, you jack ass.
Barney
The funny thing is the article starts with Bernie Sanders ‘saying that Obama is right, that “we don’t have to tear down the system.”’ And then the article says ignore what Sanders says, he wants to tear it down. Even Bernie isn’t pure enough, these days.
JPL
@satby: Someone is using alternative logic, so I wouldn’t bother.
Are you going to be able to escape your household and market duties long enough to go to San Antonio?
anarchoRex
@sukabi: I almost wish it was “over-turning”, we could really use some takesies-backsies on Trump’s judicial appointments. We’ll be dealing with his rotten judges for a generation or more.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Trump’s judicial appointments. We’ll be dealing with his rotten judges for a generation or more.
good thing a courageous old socialist spent months bellowing about rigged primaries and the Democratic Pahwty being a fayl-yuh
Remember “Don’t try to blackmail me with the Supreme Court”… good times
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@anarchoRex: Not owning up and that “I am right when I am wrong” while lecturing the young ones is exactly what “ok boomer” is about. Yes, Sandars is here to teach those kids like Obama were they are wrong (just ignore Sandars racism, gun bothering, migrant bashing and general lack of any legislative accomplishments)
anarchoRex
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Everything is really about Bernie with you guys, huh?
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, lefties lost a lot of credibility with me in 2016. I’d just as soon d national security policy with Dick Cheney. Why bother?
satby
@JPL: yeah, I know not to feed the troll!
It’s looking bleak for San Antonio, airfares are pretty high and I’m having a lot of trouble finding someone who can dogsit. Exchange daughter is in D.C. this week with her exchange program, but if I can maybe push a trip back another week I may try. She’s going to be having finals and then leaving by Dec 14. But her B’day is coming up so I’d really like to get down there.
OzarkHillbilly
From On the Issues: Bernie Sanders on Immigration
In a cursory reading I see nothing objectionable, a couple things did jump out tho:
I have said similar things in the past. I am not alone in that.
There is a lot more, some of which one can read into what one wishes.
anarchoRex
@Baud: Why bother, indeed?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Everything is really about Bernie with you guys, huh?
Bernie and his “akshully Obama was bad and dumb” drones, yeah.
(see what I did there?)
satby
@satby: and a happy Saturday to all, time for me to get going ?
OzarkHillbilly
@satby:
I’d say, “Have fun.” but I’m not quite that delusional.
JPL
@satby: I hope it works out for you and I’m sure she does also.
anarchoRex
I’ve sure gotten a lot of words put in my mouth for thinking maybe that Obama deporting 3+ million people was bad.
Anne Laurie
@anarchoRex: Climb off your cross, poseur.
And thank whatever dark gods you serve that the Blogmaster is more tolerant than I am, or you’d already be trashed & banned.
OzarkHillbilly
@anarchoRex:
You are surprised that people react badly to blanket denunciations like, “for thinking maybe that Obama deporting 3+ million people was bad.”? You really don’t think any of them needed to be deported?
anarchoRex
@OzarkHillbilly: Not anymore than you probably think they all needed to be deported.
Chyron HR
@anarchoRex:
If Obama is self-evidently the worst president in American history, why are you so obsessed with setting the record straight with a handful of neoliberal malcontents on a random blog?
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: Where did I say that he was the worst president ever
ETA: where did I even suggest it? All I did was point out that there were a few policy issues where I was dissapointed. Like, fuck, do I have to like everything he did to be considered a Good Democrat? I absentee voted from Japan for the guy in 2008, because he ran on a message of rebuking the Republican’s Orwellian War on Terror. It is my opinion that he didn’t follow through on that the way I wish he had. I have an issue with the heavy reliance on drone warfare. I have an issue that not a single person in our intelligence apparatus was ever indicted, or even suffered any hits to their careers, for honest-to-god torture. Am I not allowed to feel this way?
anarchoRex
@Chyron HR: Funny, what happened to my comment that you linked to?
JR
Some people are just determined to
watch the world burnwear clownshoes.Gvg
@anarchoRex: Now you say you were disappointed. That really is not what you started with and repeated several times until you saw you were getting nowhere. You really attacked Obama full out and dishonestly. You sounded like a troll and current events prove how,dangerous falling for these kinds of electronic post are, so everyone is going to be sceptical.
Now, I don’t think there is anything wrong with Obama’s deportation record. 3 million over 8 years in a country of our size, with our normal times legal and illegal immigration rates mean that number is not that big. There will always be some who are trouble and need to be deported. I don’t even want to hear a candidate promise no deportations, as it shows a lack of thought. I would like to hear a plan to increase legal immigration. We did not hear constant stories of deportations of children without any adult representation nor children deliberately separated from family for no valid reason nor denial of vaccines or no public inspections or on and on and on. Wasting venom on Obama when Trump is doing even worse than I listed, shows the nicest interpretation of you is that you are a fool. The less nice is that you are a liar. If you really do care about what you say, you need to wise up, shut up and go back and look at your own words to see where you went wrong and learn how to use words better. Also learn to use your brain better.
The Dark Avenger
@robmassing: Apparently Mitch saying he wanted a one-term Obama presidency didn’t happen.
Cacti
So basically, you’re having a tantrum that you didn’t get a pony?
anarchoRex
@Gvg: My man, this entire post is about Obama and his record. Why on Earth would I post an off-topic comment about Trump? Does it really need to be said that Trump has an awful immigration policy? Do you think that I’m mad about excessive deportations under Obama, but have no problem with Trump’s shit show? That defies logic. Am I only allowed to talk about Trump? I completely disagree that somehow 3 million people is a good and proper number for deportation. “Shut up… learn to use your brain better” doesn’t strike me as good faith advice, but thanks anyway.
What did I say about Obama that was dishonest? You have called me a liar, now show me where I lied. Quote me.
anarchoRex
@Cacti: is not drone bombing wedding parties a pony now?
Cacti
@anarchoRex:
Dr0nez!
Are you trying to fill a purity pony bingo card or something?
anarchoRex
@Cacti: so you are pro drone-warfare?
ThresherK
Evergreen time: These are the same jamokes who don’t know or couldn’t care about the deals FDR had to cut with Dixiecrats to keep agricultural and domestic workers (read: blacks, largely) out of the New Deal, simply to get it passed. But sure, Bill Clinton invented Neoliberalism.
PS I thought the form (if not the term) of fanfic stretched at least back to Rhett Butler and Ashley Wilkes.
Cacti
@anarchoRex:
You’re like a caricature of the most dumbass Bernie supporter.
Doug, is that you?
anarchoRex
@Cacti: can’t give me a straight answer?
Shalimar
I think there is a very good argument that Obama didn’t organize his priorities and time as president the way I would if I were playing a computer game where I got to simulate being president. That said, he accomplished 100000 times more in his life just to get to the point of getting elected the first time than I have in mine, so I think I will refrain from criticizing his choices. He did a better job than anyone else has done in my lifetime, on so many different issues.
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: In favor of putting drones in dangerous situations instead of soldiers? Yes. Who wouldn’t be in favor of that?
H.E.Wolf
Whew. Being a certain kind of straight white leftish male must be exhausting, what with all the airing of old grievances and insulting other men and so on. It tires me out just to imagine it.
I’d much rather do something concretely useful. http://PostcardsToVoters.org is writing get-out-the-vote cards for Democratic candidates in 3 special in-state elections (ID, SC, and PA) – and has an ongoing GOTV project to write to every registered Democrat in FL.
I’d love to hear about other projects that folks are engaged in, to prep for Nov. 2020. It boosts my energy every time!
Citizen_X
@Shalimar: Drones are now a common weapon, used by multiple nations on all sides of conflicts. It doesn’t make any sense to proclaim one is “anti-drone warfare.” You’d better believe that the oxymoronic anarchy monarch would be drone-bombing his own side in the revolution.
Marcopolo
Thanks for this positive constructive comment. I am pretty sure I lost IQ points following this thread.
Eyes on the prize folks. Less than a year till the 2020 elections.
anarchoRex
@Shalimar:
@Citizen_X:
These are the same arguments people used to defend indescriminate bombing in Vietnam. They were wrong then and they’re wrong now. And just like bombing, drones haven’t gotten us any closer to “winning the war on terror”
And thank you for noticing the ironic nature of my nym.
Although I’m not sure how you make the leap from “doesn’t approve of the use of drones in asymetric warfare” to “clearly they are a mass murdering lunatic whole will use drones against their allies???”
PsiFighter37
@anarchoRex: You really just don’t get it.
OGLiberal
@rikyrah: This is likely what Pelosi “feared” in starting impeachment proceedings. It was clear that what would come out would be impeachable and the House would have to vote to impeach, which will result in a Senate acquittal and Trump and the Trumpers running around yelling “fully vindicated” in the run up to the election which, at least based on a Wisconsin poll Josh Marshall highlighted a couple days ago, will give old White people the out to vote for this disgusting man over moderate, decent (ask Lindsey Graham!) Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren, who is not even close to being a socialist but, apparently, plays one on TV.
But the whistleblower forced their hand so they have to impeach. It is the right thing to do…it has to be done. If it’s not a winner electorally, that will speak volumes to what our fellow white citizens really want for this country. Sadly, I’m not confident in their judgement.
anarchoRex
@PsiFighter37: I guess not.
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: No. I don’t agree at all. I am anti-war. I am opposed to every war we have gotten into in the last 60 years other than Afghanistan. I am opposed to most of our current uses of drones to take out opponents.
But, there are legitimately many groups out there who will attack civilians. There are situations where it is preferable to take those people out before they can kill people. Drones are a better way to do that than risking human lives.
Were our criteria for picking targets under Obama where I would have wanted them? No. Is there any excuse at all for attacking a wedding procession? Hell, no. But I’m also not privy to all of the information they have before they make each decision. It isn’t easy, and I don’t think they are mindless killers like you seem to. It would be wonderful if they only targeted the worst people and no innocent people were ever injured in those attacks. How do we get to that?
There is a deep discussion to be had on this subject, and the answer is not as easy as you think it is. Drone use= bad is childishly simplistic. The subject is far more complex than your position.
Goblue72
Ok, Boomer.
Richard Guhl
Question: Since 1995, how long have the Democrats had effective total control over the federal government?
Answer: Eight months, between April 2009, when Al Franken was seated until January 2010, when Scott Brown won the seat of the late Ted Kennedy.
Obama and the Democrats sure were slackers in getting things done.
Phein60
@Redshift:
I’ve always thought of Obama as a Rockefeller Republican. Today, that makes him a leftist. I’m old enough to remember when Nixon would have signed something like M4A, but Ted Kennedy wanted more.
anarchoRex
@Shalimar: That’s fair, and I appreciate your measured response. I’ll say in turn that I think, in general, the use of drones has done more harm than good to American interests, but I won’t argue that there is never a situation where the use of drones might be called for. I agree with you more than I disagree with you.
I may have ben simplistic in my other comments about it, but I was replying to statements like “DronEZZZZzz” and “purity pony” so clearly those people weren’t actually looking for a discussion.
Bobby Thomson
Gosh, it was terrible to have:
1. Opening of Cuban relations
2. Iran non-proliferation deal
3. Reciprocal respect with international institutions and allies
4. No recognition of the North Korean regime
5. Challenging the Putin regime
6. Good trade relations
7. Actual enforcement of the Voting Rights Act
8. Substantial troop withdrawals from Iraq consistent with the Iraq vote and the agreement negotiated by a prior administration
9. Compliance with international laws, including asylum
10. Not putting kids in fucking cages
11. Not separating families
12. The appointment of Supreme Court justices who won’t shut down progressive policies at the drop of a hat, and who won’t authorize a fascist unitary presidency
13. Arguing for strict scrutiny of laws discriminating against gays
14. Implementing the strongest orders promoting gay equality in American history
Not everything is drooooooooooooonez
In conclusion, go fuck yourself.
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: Yeah. I agree the harm to American interests is far more complex than how many lives we take compared to how many we save. The wider blowback, engendering hatred among family, friends, and even those who don’t directly know our victims, is impossible to measure properly but is vast.
James E Powell
@Amir Khalid:
I recently purchased my third telecaster: a 2012 aged cherry burst deluxe with N3 noiseless pickups that I’ve wanted since 2012.
I’ve also keep one in open G, but I kept the sixth string on. Not ready to go Full Keef. Last summer I was learning songs in open G, but not the Rolling Stones. Hope you enjoy yours as much I as do mine.
chopper
so basically
-bern-feeler says O was shitty on immigration
-someone points out wilmer is shitty on immigration
-bern-feeler demands evidence
-person provides it
-bern-feeler says ‘well, i never said wilmer was perfect! anyway, back to how O was shitty on immigration…’
chopper
@Goblue72:
dude, you’re not a millenial. everybody knows you’re not a millenial.
Shalimar
@Bobby Thomson: Or, to summarize, disappointing compared to what? None of us were there making decisions about what could and could not be done, what should and should not be prioritized. To criticize him based on hypotheticals of what we would have done without knowing the complexities of every single day in that job…
I’m overwhelmed just thinking about an hour of being in Obama’s shoes. I just don’t get the constant negatives.
anarchoRex
Cool, too bad he:
1.) Sent forces into new combat zones like Yemen, Syria, and Lebanon.
2.) Deported 3 million fucking people.
3.) Ordered the extra-judicial killing of American citizens.
4.) Was hostile and punitive to whistle blowers.
5.) Made no progress on the nuclear disarmament of N. Korea.
6.) Supported a coup in Honduras.
7.) Completely failed to stop Russia from annexing Crimea, destabilizing Ukraine, developing stronger influence in the Levant and Turkey, and manipulating our own elections to their advantage. (Challenged Putin how exactly? What, they’re not invited to G7 meetings anymore? I’m sure Putin cries himself to sleep at night over it.)
8.) Absolutely separated families. (See, 3 million deported, you think none of them had family still in the states?)
9.) Pushed a trade deal that would have led to further erosions in conditions for American workers, and the power of sovereign governments to regulate the behavior of trans-national conglomerates.
10.) Failed to close Guantanamo.
11.) Failed to hold to account a single individual for the national stain that was the CIA’s rendition and torture program.
12.) Oversaw an explosion in collateral damage (dead innocents) due to a rapid expansion of and poorly conceived over-reliance on drone strikes.
13.) Failed to stop the continuing metastization of the intelligence community’s domestic surveillance.
14.) Presided during a recovery that saw almost all the gains go to the already wealthy, and where average black household wealth went down.
15.) Decided to spend even more blood and treasure by doubling down in Afghanistan, without any appreciable degradation in the Taliban’s ability to continue fighting.
But, you know, Best! President! In my lifetime! It’s almost as if his administration was multi-faceted and wasn’t unmitigatedly good or bad. But most of y’all just seem interested in cheerleading the good shit without owning the fuck-ups.
Half of your list is just shit that he didn’t do that Trump is. If Trump is your bar, then this country is fucked.
anarchoRex
@chopper: How many people has Bernie deported?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@anarchoRex: well, you certainly sound like a great big grown-up person with a firm grasp of the issues and the nuances of American politics and international relations, not at all like a sulky adolescent who’s read a lot of internet and has a childish emotional investment in keepin’ it real.
The bougies will never get it. The harsh light of your truth-telling is too much for them.
anarchoRex
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cutting, truly.
Citizen Alan
@anarchoRex: People like you are why I despise Bernie Sanders so much. I honestly hope his heart bursts out of his chest like an alien face hugger before he has the chance to deliver the country back to Shitgibbon for another 4 years.
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: So your point is Obama failed to do all the things you would have if you could get 69 million people to vote for you?
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: Point for you. Bernie’s lifetime deportation count will always be 0.
Hob
@anarchoRex: You’re getting a lot of hostility on this for a couple of reasons.
First, as you probably know but decided for whatever reason not to bring up, looking at Obama’s raw numbers on deportations to make him out to be unusually bad is pretty misleading, since there was a change in how the numbers are counted that led to the immediate or nearly-immediate sending back of people who had just crossed the border being included in the total when they weren’t before. In terms of deporting people who were actually living here, it was mixed: he did allow ICE to go after people more aggressively in some areas in his first term, but backed off on that pretty hard in his second, for which we can probably thank the loud voices of advocacy groups who rightly kept pressing him. In other areas he was consistently good about cutting back on removals via executive order. Just blurring together the whole 8 years and saying he was terrible is meaningless… and it’s really absurd for anyone who cares about this issue to simply ignore DACA and DREAM; that alone makes you sound pretty disingenuous.
Obama did make bad decisions but he also made real progress that helped a lot of people, to an extent that I wasn’t sure I would ever see from a president in my lifetime (I’m 46, and a lot of people here are quite a bit older and have seen even more shit). That sums it up on a lot of subjects. You brought up civil rights– again he was far, FAR more progressive and effective in that area than any president in my lifetime… and he also did some stupid things. If you want to get into the details, cool, but reducing it to a blanket statement of “he was bad on civil rights” is ridiculous and mostly just suggests that you have a very selective view of which areas of civil rights matter.
If you come in with a list of all the ways he pissed you off, and an attitude like “if you looooove Obama so much why don’t you MARRY him”, then yes people are going to call you a Bernie cultist, because we’ve all met plenty of those and that is how they act. I was like that too when I was a Naderite. It’s a righteous feeling but it’s not the same as actually being progressive or an activist.
anarchoRex
@Shalimar: So what standard are we holding politicians accountable to, if it isn’t even at least our own policy preferences? I’ve seen you state a couple times now that you’re uncomfortable or unwilling to judge Obama’s performance in office. How then do you plan to hold any politician accountable?
There’s no nuance on this thread. Everyone’s immediate reaction to any criticism of Obama was to either spew personal insults or sycophantic declarations of all the ways he was excellent, actually. Yours have been the only replies I’ve gotten in this 50+ comment turd-bomb of a thread that engaged in anyway with the issues I’ve brought up, and I appreciate it. I mean, Christ, someone put the gd n-word in my mouth.
If I feel strongly about the ways Obama messed up, it’s because I felt strongly about his potential as a president. I donated money to his campaign and even took the effort to absentee vote in the primary for him, while I was in Japan. My wife was a delegate for him at the state convention. I thought he was going to change shit. People can whine about the Republicans retaking the House, but it’s indisputable that there are many things that were still within his power to do that he did not. I saw him give a speech when he came to visit us in Bagram in 2010, and I was already disappointed that he hadn’t done anything about the CIA by then, and he never did. I have just as much of a right to ask for accountability for his bads as people have to celebrate his goods.
kindness
No doubt the ‘true progressives’ have their mouthpieces, but the actual mouthpieces are paid in some form or another. And no doubt there is a contingent that hears ‘Obama didn’t even try!’ and it strikes them as proper. But I really have to wonder how many of those voices on line are bots & Russian/rightwing trolls. I suspect more than a few.
different-church-lady
My god, thirty years from now when the bill comes ’round for “OK Boomer,” it’s gonna be a bitch for them to pay.
kindness
@anarchoRex: Duuude! Your characterization of Obama is the point of this piece. It isn’t accurate and your apparent pov is so damn butt hurt it takes away from any credibility you might want to seem to show. Your premise is wrong. No, Obama didn’t solve all our problems. But he did more than almost anyone before him. What ever the world is today Obama made it better. Stop helping Republicans do their dirty work for them.
J R in WV
@anarchoRex:
You seem to believe Bernie was never a handmaid for the NRA, is not a Russian stooge, has passed significant legislation in every term, was never a lazy misogynist who wrote rape fiction for entertainment.
I can’t see why you hate President Obama, you just mumble about his perceived failures, when he was fighting racist nazis his whole term and still managed to pass the ACA, which has saved millions of lives already.
Trump the Terrible may be worse than Bernie in terms of criminal background, but as far as personality goes, pretty close to a tie in my book.
ETA to tune it up.
different-church-lady
Look, when someone says “Greatest President of my lifetime!” I’m almost obligated to counter it with “Massive disappointment!” I mean it’s printed right there on the back of my ACLU membership card!
J R in WV
@anarchoRex:
Being a human being, you are allowed to feel your feelings.
Even though you are a Russian stooge, you are allowed to feel your feelings that Fearless Leader V. V. Putin instructs you to have and to share with potential American voters.
How is the weather in St. Petersburg today, tovarisch? Or are you working from Texas where they hired Americans to execute the Russian security service plans?
different-church-lady
@J R in WV: Human beings had so much potential, but they turned out to be a massive disappointment.
Shalimar
@anarchoRex: How does looking back at 10 years ago help with holding anyone accountable? You fight the fights worth fighting in the present. I will be there with you on most of them. I even voted for Sanders in 2016. I am sympathetic to almost everything he says, though i don’t believe in his ability to achieve anything. He has no history of building majorities for legislation.
J R in WV
@anarchoRex:
You beat that drum a lot. That’s 375,000 people a year, or less than 32,000 a month, in a nation with ~335,000,000 people resident in it. Get real.
You don’t think that many people may deserve to be deported for not being good members of the population?
Some fraction of immigrants are not going to work out, people who can’t deal with our way of life, people who don’t actually seek work but want to help themselves to the good life they see all around them. We have plenty of home-grown people who are incapable of working regularly, we don’t need to import more.
different-church-lady
Trump plays resentment for conservative causes. Bernie plays resentment for liberal causes. At least Bernie is on the light side of the force, but they’re both banging away with the same shitty tool.
J R in WV
@anarchoRex:
Also too, your giant list of Obama’s failures is almost exclusively a list of legislative barriers to things Obama attempted to accomplish.
Close Gitmo?
Tried to close it, Legislature interfered with that, that list goes on and on. I’m not going to take the time to correct all of your lies, you’ll just type up a different list, easy since you don’t appear to care about actual facts at all.
Again, Russian Troll, all the way. But sometimes it’s entertaining to kick them around on a cold rainy afternoon.
Quiltingfool
I voted for President Obama twice and never regretted it. Did he do everything the way I thought things should be done? Well, I can’t say, as I am most certainly not as expert or well informed about every single thing upon which decisions must be made. We can armchair quarterback all his decisions, and robust discussions are good, but in the end, a President has to do things that not everybody will like. We can only hope those decisions result in the least harm possible in exchange for the most benefit. It sucks, especially if you are on the losing end, and you have a right to be angry. But life ain’t always fair.
I am a retired public school teacher, and I can say I was not overly impressed with President Obama’s direction vis a vis education (but I sing praises of it compared to the nutball that’s running Education now). Did that deter me from voting for him? Hell, no. Teachers know they get better from Democrats than Republicans, but I think Democrats can do better than they have done. You know what used to gobsmack me during my tenure? The majority of teachers in my poor, rural school district were Republican! Now, I do live in a ruby red district in Missouri, but my stars and garters! Talk about cutting your own nose to spite your face!
Zelma
Re Obama and immigration: there are laws that the executive is supposed to, well, execute. There is certainly some discretion allowed, and Obama did use it. As I recall, there were no plant raids under his administration and a lot of the folks who were deported had criminal records, usually not minor. And the whole DACA program was discretionary. He never engaged in any anti-immigrant rhetoric and the administration was much more generous with asylum seekers.
But there are serious problems with immigration enforcement. Do we want “open borders” or do we want to control who enters? Frankly, an open borders policy is a non-starter with a majority of the electorate. You can say that anti-immigration attitudes are wrong and that we need immigrants. You can say that immigrants do jobs that native Americans don’t want. And that is often true. But it is also true that immigrant labor can impact American workers. In my area, the building trades have largely become based on immigrant labor. Wages for this kind of work have been depressed and locals feel that they are being excluded. The building trade unions have lost what clout they had. And there is lots of resentment. This actually impacted the election for the state senate and assembly here. The Democratic candidates were tied to the governor’s “sanctuary state” policy even though they tried to distant themselves. They lost.
CarolDuhart2
@anarchoRex: Well, it would have helped if we Democrats had both Houses of Congress. Trump’s laziness when the Republicans had both House and Senate is why we don’t have even worse immigration laws. But without both Houses, there’s no real wall against immigration abuse by the executive. If Dems had had both House and Senate from the beginning, things could have been put in funding legislation to actually slow down some of this stuff.
It’s interesting that guys like you always give Dems agency but seem uninterested in actually making sure there’s butts in the seats sufficient enough to pass laws that could reform the worst abuses. Without that, the best we can do is things on the local level and some tweaks here and there.
About letting Russia conquer the Crimea: anybody want to risk nuclear exchange over this? Better to help Ukraine help themselves. Putin isn’t going to irradiate Ukraine if Ukraine beats them in a guerilla war. But if confronted by the United States directly, and faced with losing to another superpower, all bets are off here.
Drones. Were there any other way to stop transational terror networks who are based in places where there are no real laws without them? No one was going to send U.S. troops to march door to door looking for these people and dragging us in another war.
It was thanks to the CIA and other agencies that we finally found Bin Laden and the others. Thanks to Obama’s work, we now can fear domestic terrorists instead of the transnational ones working beyond official borders.
SWMBO
Serious question. If Obama deported 3 million, how many of them were repeats? Were they deported over and over again?
My husband’s company hired programmers from other countries. When they overstayed their visas, they were deported too. Does that figure in the 3 million people? They were readmitted after their visas were renewed but if their paperwork lapsed, did they get deported again and count as a new deportation or was it counted as one deportation (again)?
@Citizen Alan: Come sit next to me…
anarchoRex
Hmm, I guess the afternoon crowd is where the thoughtful crowd is. Appreciate the, belated, thoughtful responses from people. Some of y’all made points that I already addressed in my comments, though you may have missed it in your hurry to bash me over the head as an Obama-hater, or (lol) a Russian bot? (does that ever work, JR in “WV,” or does it just make you feel better?)
It is truly disheartening to see that the crowd here is pretty OK with mass deportations. It’s funny, I’ve been reading this blog off and on for 12+ years, and I used to be right in the mainstream of the commentariat here; apparently that’s not the case anymore. I wonder why I’ve changed so much and many others haven’t?
Y’all are attributing a lot of enmity to me that doesn’t exist; maybe you’ve had to deal with people like that in the past. I don’t hate Obama, I just wish he’d stuck to more of his actual campaign pledges. It should go without question that I voted for him everytime, and yes, I’m aware that the president can’t single-handedly do everything through sheer force of will, which is why I’ve donated and worked for Dems up and down the ballot, everytime. And yes, the ACA is a blessing, saved us from Great Depression part 2, etc. If I limited myself to a few areas of critique, it was on purpose. He did a lot of good. But I do think it’s useful to look back at old errors, even if we are in a new fight. If we don’t reckon with them, how will we avoid the same mistakes in the future? If the Dems as a party don’t make the effort to reconcile why not all of Obama’s actions were great, how will keep future Dem presidents from repeating their mistake? It says a lot to me that the undocumented people in my life are just as fearful under Dem presidents as they are under Repubs. I have failed to see this reconcilation and accounting, I’ve mostly experienced hand-waving and placement of all the blame on an u friendly House. We need to be a better party. My great fear is that in four, or eight years, the Republicans will put up someone that is twice as vicious as Trump, but only half as inept. And if they win the election, I think it will be because the Dems were too resistant to change.
CarolDuhart2
@anarchoRex: Nobody is a fan of mass deportations. But without a legislative reform as big as health care, there won’t be much to be done here. Bush tried immigration reform back in 2006, when he still had Republican majorities in both House and Senate, and failed due to his own party’s resentment over Reagan’s amnesty. Dems took over in 2006, but with a Republican President, couldn’t have gotten their own version through. When Obama became President, 700,000 people were losing their jobs, GM and the world economy was cratering. That we even got health care is a miracle in and of itself.
If the purity ponies had gotten off their butts to support Democrats, even Blue Dog Democrats, Obama could have had another 2 years and an economy with a breather to pursue at least some mild version of immigration reform. And if that Dem majority had held until 2014, a second term Obama could have gotten even more bolder. As it was, we got DACA and some moritoriums on the worst parts of immigration practice.
If you want long-lasting reform, vote Blue-no-matter who, and no matter when-in every election. Increase the numbers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
My great fear is that in four, or eight years, the Republicans will put up someone that is twice as vicious as Trump, but only half as inept. And if they win the election, I think it will be because the Dems were too resistant to change.
Yes. 2024 will be decided by voters in WI and PA all het up about Obama’s use of dronze
burnspbesq
@anarchoRex:
who the fuck are you?